Wired reports on cryptic transmissions

[KG4JYD]

Wired.com has an article about indecipherable, and often unlistenable shortwave broadcasts. Read here:

Dotted around the globe are shadowy, short-range transmitters beaming strange radio messages across the planet. The messages are indecipherable, and often unlistenable. Nonetheless, they have their fans.

Some speculate they are intelligence gathering tools, others think they are part of a missile system.

Dark Side of the Band
By Jason Walsh
Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,65698,00.html

[w3bny]

Escuche Radio Bingo Clandestina!

Ocho-Nueve-Nueve-Dos #Tres-cinco-quatro-uno.... #The east germans were the best.

cheezy oompah music followed by silence and Achtung...Achtung zweitzig..fir..seben......ende...ende... and back to the oompah music. Sometimes they would screw up and send dead air. you could hear them yammering in the background. Then they would figure it out. A quick Schitze! and back with the oompah! #Liconsire poacher is kinda cool but the best ones have got to be the XPH stations or the poly tones. #tres cool!

[KE4MOB]

Sky king, sky king, do not answer.....

[ky5u]

Number 9........Number 9.........Number 9

[WF7I]

I'm going to try and hear some of these stations. It may not be exciting to listen to a series of numbers, but, it's one of those things to put on the "I've done that" list of radio activities.

[kc5lmf]

This mystery number stuff has been around since WWI -- go to www.Google.com and do a search for SHORTWAVE MYSTERY NUMBERS and you will get about 5000 sites that cover the subject ... everything from spies to space aliens...

[ws4y]

We have the same thing on our ham bands only
its called pactor lll

[W7WLL]

Very interesting.

Have a weak to moderately strong CW station on or about 14.270 MHz which shows up almost every evening (when band is open) around 0200 UTC #plus or minus an hour sending what appears to be text and sometimes code groups. #Comes from West and appears strongest when open to JA. #Sometimes a 'de Bxxxxxxx'. #Anyone know or ever hear this station(s) or know who they are. #Guess among some of us is China, perhaps commerical or military??

[KC0KBH]

Nothing new. I am a big numbers nut.:)

[WF7I]

Quote[/b] (W7WLL @ Nov. 16 2004,14:55)]Anyone know or ever hear this station(s) or know who they are. Guess among some of us is China, perhaps commerical or military??
You might try looking at the info on spynumbers.com, click on the stations link. They've got a lot of stuff on there.

I've been researching the web on this thing for a few days, and today I received my first numbers station. It appears to be from Cuba and is an automated female voice reading off groups of 5 numbers, in Spanish. It was down on 6797 on AM at 2200--2300z.

Happy hunting!

[n9kpn]

I found my first "numbers" station over 20 years ago and know that they have been around a lot longer than that. I've heard English, German, and other unrecognizable languages. In English I've heard alpha-numeric and numeric stations. By far the most common is the Spanish numbers stations. These have a very distinct mechanical sound to them. The most interesting one I ever heard was being read by a live announcer. He would say "Please copy Alpha Hotel Five Three. Please copy November Foxtrot Six Two." and so on. But every so often he would stumble or say "CORRECTION COPY Foxtrot November Six Two" or similar.

One radio show host (no, not Art Bell) claimed that he had one of these near him. One night he said he foxed the signal to a military base in his home state of Florida.

Discovery channel had a show about spies and their methods. One of the methods they discussed was the use of shortwave radios to pass secrets to the field agents. There is no big mystery here about this.

Another show (Nova Episode "Mind of a Codebreaker") eludes to the early days of radio. Soon after radio was established as a means of communicating to ships at sea strange "coded" Morse code signals were discovered; pre WWI.

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (WF7I @ Nov. 16 2004,16:16)]Quote[/b] (W7WLL @ Nov. 16 2004,14:55)]Anyone know or ever hear this station(s) or know who they are. #Guess among some of us is China, perhaps commerical or military??
You might try looking at the info on spynumbers.com, click on the stations link. #They've got a lot of stuff on there.

I've been researching the web on this thing for a few days, and today I received my first numbers station. #It appears to be from Cuba and is an automated female voice reading off groups of 5 numbers, in Spanish. #It was down on 6797 on AM at 2200--2300z.

Happy hunting!
Gee, do ya think it might be Castro sending coded instructions to his spy network here? Or, perhaps somebody from La Radio Marti sending instructions to some of our own from south Miami?

I'll bet the NSA has been listening to it too (and has a fix on just where it is coming from, if not what the numeros mean).

Lee
W6EM

[N4LQ]

Listen on 3.521mhz and tell me what that weird noise is. Please.

[KT0DD]

Hmmm...Could Be AL-Qaeda, After all, one of the best ways to fight a high tech enemy is "Low-Tech", and unfortunately, it has been pretty effective. 73.:cool:

[W4TEY]

4 nights ago on 3.927 lsb spanish female 5 number groups coming in lima charlie! Invader in the amateur band. First time I ever heard them there doing numbers.

[HP1KL]

Try 6855 kHz (AM) after 2100 GMT - Spanish five-number, "one-time-pad" messages. Same frequency has French language programming in the morning. Heard loud 'n clear in HP land.

[K3TJ]

After very careful analysis at the University of Pittsburgh Cryptology Department it has been determined beyond a reasonable doubt that these numbers are codes to operatives relaying the winning lotto numbers.

After all the Government (read that IRS) keeps close tabs on those operatives (errr, I mean, "lucky winners"). Coincidence? I think not.

The big trick is to figure out which state they happen to be sending numbers for. That seems random.

Good luck all.

Ed k3tj

PS Last I heard Pitt does not have a crypto dept. :-)

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (W4TEY @ Nov. 16 2004,19:17)]4 nights ago on 3.927 lsb spanish female 5 number groups coming in lima charlie! Invader in the amateur band. First time I ever heard them there doing numbers.
Nope. 3.9-4.0 is not a ham band in other regions of the world. They have the right to be there. We share that band with government (not here in the US) and broadcast.

And, yes, 3926 is a regular frequency for Morse numbers broadcasts, along with 10126.

Ed

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (N4LQ @ Nov. 16 2004,18:36)]Listen on 3.521mhz and tell me what that weird noise is. Please.
Can't hear it here in NM. But then you didn't say what time you heard it, and it is now 0300Z, so may have listened a couple of hours too late!

Or it may only be heard where you are, presumably from your call sign, on the East Coast.


Ed

[W7MEV]

I can give you some info on the "Sky King." I often deployed to Rhein-Main AB, Germany during the 70's as an Airbourne Radio Maint tech with a KC-97 unit. I would frequently hear "Sky King, Sky King, this is Shannon. Do not answer, do not answer..." followed by a series of 5-character code groups in English. I frequently communicated with Shannon (Ireland) to check the HF radio in our aircraft. Word among the Radio Techs at the time was that Sky King was an AWACS aircraft orbiting somewhere in Europe. Sounded like straight skinny to me at the time!

Mike - W7MEV

[k4eez]

Quote[/b] (WF7I @ Nov. 16 2004,13:16)]Quote[/b] (W7WLL @ Nov. 16 2004,14:55)]Anyone know or ever hear this station(s) or know who they are. #Guess among some of us is China, perhaps commerical or military
Happy hunting!
hi just want to add my 2 cents worth

some of the lower bands 6.7 something Mhz USB http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ) are actual military Grid's coming from the middle east try listing after 8 pm Western Time USA or say 2 hours after the sun set's...

K4EEZ... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[wb6bcn]

This doesn't fall in the catagory of a numbers station, but is weird. A signal continuously sweeping from 6786 to 6819 kHz. It appears to have a 1 kHz tone amplitude modulated on it. It sweeps the 33 kHz spread about at a one second rate.

[vk2qq]

Quote[/b] (N4LQ @ Nov. 16 2004,18:36)]Listen on 3.521mhz and tell me what that weird noise is. Please.

Noise on 3521? Certainly 3621 has a Wefax signal from Tokyo running all night. Sometimes wxmaps, sometimes sections of newspapers are sent. Can be copied using fax mode in software like MixW without a problem.

Brad VK2QQ

[n9lya]

Quote[/b] (ws4y @ Nov. 16 2004,14:42)]We have the same thing on our ham bands only
its called pactor lll
I Thought that is what it was... Only aliens can decode it without spending $1000...


73 Jerry n9lya

[wp3bm]

I have heard it on 10 meter. Around 28.050 and 28.075, a female voice on AM with a mexican accent calling out series of numbers preceded by "unit#". They go on a couple minutes on the same frequency and then shift like 20 khz, and the thing repeats. When they reach the highest frequency, they just #### down. This goes on almost around the clock. I copy this from FK68 when conditions are good to the states and Mexico, but it is hard to determine the origin, as I only listen on a vertical (I am just a Tech).

[K3HVG]

FYI.. the Sky King broadcasts originated from the SAC Command Post at Offutt. The on-the-air transmission(s) were sent out from a number of AF Global SSB ground stations around the world and on several AF HF SSB frequencies used normally for enroute services. Often one would hear (on the Atlantic routes) Andrews, Lajes, Incirlik, Loring, et al, say "All stations stand by for Sky King broadcast...." . Then you'd hear the familiar "Sky King Sky King this is (e.g.:) Migrate Migrate do not answer do not answer, break break. Authentication Bravo November etc etc etc.... HF Global is there but no more Sky King!!!

[K1XS]

[/quote]
Quote[/b] ]After very careful analysis at the University of Pittsburgh Cryptology Department it has been determined beyond a reasonable doubt that these numbers are codes to operatives relaying the winning lotto numbers.
----
The big trick is to figure out which state they happen to be sending numbers for. That seems random.

That's easy, just go to Lottery.com (http://www.lottery.com/)
The IRS already knows about all winnings over (if I remember correctly) $500 due to a 1099 being issued to the winner.

I'll take a guess that sending lottery numbers to 'operatives' is an urban legend.

73,

Ken K1XS

"Lottery, a tax on people who are bad at math"

[kb7aqd]

The frequecy sweeper near 6786 kHz reported by WB6BCN sounds like CODAR, reported in Monitoring Times some months back. Small 100 watt transmitters send these sweeps to measure speed and headings of ocean waves. I hear them in Phoenix in the 4.7 MHz area -- and some systems operate around 27.5 MHz. Different ranges are used to detect certain sizes of ocean waves for the benefit of weather observations and fishing.

[n4zou]

Quote[/b] (n9lya @ Nov. 17 2004,04:17)]Quote[/b] (ws4y @ Nov. 16 2004,14:42)]We have the same thing on our ham bands only
its called pactor lll
I Thought that is what it was... Only aliens can decode it without spending $1000...


73 Jerry n9lya
Winlink 2000 and FBB software with Pactor I, Pactor II, Pactor III, and Packet modes.
Even if you have a $1000 SCS box the Software adds it's on level of encryption so you still cant read the data. Who is to know if some for profit business is using the system for profit or worse the pornographers are using it now for pictures of children. #
Worse is the ARRL thinking this crap is the "future" of amateur radio!

[KC2GOG]

Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Nov. 15 2004,14:27)]Sky king, sky king, do not answer.....
Mainsail, Mainsail

Quebec, Romeo, Zulu, Four, Golf, Oscar, Oscar, Delta, Fox, Uniform, November

I say again.....


Quebec, Romeo, Zulu, Four, Golf, Oscar, Oscar, Delta, Fox, Uniform, November


-USAF 11175



I think Wired , just needed a filler article, not this this "crypto stuff" is new, its been around far longer than I have thats for sure.

I miss those messsages from the old Soviet Spy stations in Cuba and in Long Island Sound

[W9AFB]

Quote[/b] (K3HVG @ Nov. 17 2004,08:30)]FYI.. the Sky King broadcasts originated from the SAC Command Post at Offutt. #The on-the-air transmission(s) were sent out from a number of AF Global SSB ground stations around the world and on several AF HF SSB frequencies used normally for enroute services. #Often one would hear (on the Atlantic routes) Andrews, Lajes, Incirlik, Loring, et al, say "All stations stand by for Sky King broadcast...." . #Then you'd hear the familiar "Sky King Sky King this is (e.g.:) Migrate Migrate do not answer do not answer, break break. #Authentication #Bravo November etc etc etc.... # HF Global is there but no more Sky King!!!
All you ever wanted to know about EAMs (SKYKING etc)
http://microvoltradio.com/text_files/hfgcs.txt
and the current day use
http://microvoltradio.com/text_files/hfgcs.txt

Listening to HFGCS never gets old for me.
There's been some changes to the system in the last few years, but there's still a lot of traffic on the system. ALE can also be heard here. And that quick DTMF sounding tone that you may hear on some transmissions...that's left over from the SAC days.

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (W7MEV @ Nov. 16 2004,20:38)]I can give you some info on the "Sky King." I often deployed to Rhein-Main AB, Germany during the 70's as an Airbourne Radio Maint tech with a KC-97 unit. I would frequently hear "Sky King, Sky King, this is Shannon. Do not answer, do not answer..." followed by a series of 5-character code groups in English. I frequently communicated with Shannon (Ireland) to check the HF radio in our aircraft. Word among the Radio Techs at the time was that Sky King was an AWACS aircraft orbiting somewhere in Europe. Sounded like straight skinny to me at the time!

Mike - W7MEV
That's probably true. Sky King was not one, but several aircraft. The message was a broadcast to all operating aircraft of that type at any given moment. There might be five of them, or even more. It was not directed to a specific aircraft. And it was not just to AWACS. It was to all aircraft that were on station for a run to the USSR. (And to China.)

The other popular call sign of the time was similar! It ran:

"Attention all Duckbutt aircraft, this is (air base) this is (air base) do not answer do not answer. " This was followed by a four digit message (safety code) and an authentication time and code.

Duckbutt aircraft were -- surprise, surprise (the resemblance is obvious!) refueling tankers orbiting to take care of the B52s that were always "on station" for immediate attack on the USSR.

Approximately one-third of our nation's B52 bombers were in the air at all times, 24 hours a day. They were on courses to assigned targets inside the USSR, or were orbiting a few hundred miles out to sea, and that was the safety message that kept them from continuing. This was known as "Failsafe." There was a movie about it. The remake starred George Clooney, but the original came out in the 1960s during the height of tension.

Of course, they had other methods of preventing nuclear war, too, but the voice sideband 'call-back' was the 'right now' method of preventing them from turning toward target. If the aircraft did not receive that call-back on time, he would open his attack orders and pick the course that was indicated in them. He would assume this was the real thing, and he was not coming back. He would, though, still have some other means of confirming, but the lack of that voice message would start him on the steps to attack. If he received the call-back, he never opened his War Plan envelope. He would then continue orbiting in his "on station" position until he was relieved by another B52.

It was believed in the event of a massive attack on the US, there would be no way to call them back. They would then continue past their point of no return, to USSR targets.

That was well known to the Soviets, too, and was used as a deterrent. They knew an attack on our mainland would still result in a number of the B52s getting through, and the results would be a scorched-earth of the Soviet Union. As Polaris subs joined in, even ONE ICBM from the USSR hitting the US could wipe out most of Russia as well. And some of our ICBMs would make it, too! It was not a pleasant thought! Not for any of us.

Today, by the way, the old Sky King and Duckbutt broadcasts have been replaced by the EAM - the Emergency Action Message. It is again a general broadcast, and it serves the same purpose, but it now contains a much stronger coding, and may run, instead of four digits or characters, about 20 characters or digits mix.

The beat goes on.

Incidentally, for a look at *today's* Cold War, read this AP news story, published just today, Nov 17..

Russia nuclear missiles (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20041117/D86DJN3G1.html)

The "numbers stations' have been around for many years. I would suppose that technique came of age during WW-II, with the advent of smaller radios spies could use in the field. It was used by both sides, the Allies and the Axis.

The One Time Pad technique is totally secure. It can't even be broken by NSA's super computers, as once an attempt is made, the computer can make the message say anything tat all. There is no way to determine content with the key. Provided, of course, the key is never reused, and is completely random. This technique will probably still be in use 50 years from now, if not even further into the future.

It does not depend on digital techniques. It depends on a polyalphabetic substitution where A plus B equals Y one time, and A plus B equals J the next.

After that substitution, they letters are converted to numbers, and may again be enciphered using a numerical key text. This is called double encryption.

Ed

[ka7gkn]

relax, BPL will take care of these signals

ka7gkn

[ac3p]

Shoot! I thought Sky King was a rancher out west who flew airplanes and had a niece named Penny. They would talk air to ground on their radio at the ranch.

That's what got me interested in ham radio.

I use to hear a lot of those numbered stations during the Cold War. Used some of them for code practice.
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AD7DZ]

NPR recently aired a story on this topic. #They discussed the Conet Project, a CD set of recordings of numbers stations, which has become a cult hit with movie directors and the likes.

Link to NPR story (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4167689)

Interesting listening!

[N4ADO]

We used to liisten to these broadcasts also.
Always figured it was The airbourne command center talking to Cheyenne Mountain. Only then, The call
was "SkyBird, Skybird, Do not answer."

73, N4ADO

[wb6bcn]

AD7DZ:
That NPR report is very interesting.

[w6em]

As was mentioned earlier, the Skyking broadcasts were from a number of bases. #Strange, if they were intended for SAC aircraft, that McClellan AFB broadcasted these repeatedly in the mid to late 60's.


"Skyking Skyking, this is McClellan, do not answer, do not answer...."

Castle AFB and Beale AFB were SAC places and Castle had many B52's and KC135's. #Why that McClellan was the radio source is puzzling. #Use the materiel supply base as the SAC radio source?? #Guess they didn't want the Ruskies and Chinese to know the names of the real SAC bases in norCal. #Guess they'd rather risk having the AFMARS headquarters taken out instead of the B52s.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
#

Lee
W6EM

[n0ov]

What do you get when you substract 50 from a B52?

[kl7aj]

Sky king, sky king, do not answer, is one station we CAN explain. It's the strategic air command "giant talk" broadcast, directed at Air Force One. They used to have a Giant Talk ground station here at Eielson AFB in Fairbanks. (Nice station, by the way...a pair of Collins 30L1 Linears and an 80 ft rotatable log periodic!)

Eric, KL7AJ

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Nov. 17 2004,12:59)]As was mentioned earlier, the Skyking broadcasts were from a number of bases. Strange, if they were intended for SAC aircraft, that McClellan AFB broadcasted these repeatedly in the mid to late 60's.


"Skyking Skyking, this is McClellan, do not answer, do not answer...."

Castle AFB and Beale AFB were SAC places and Castle had many B52's and KC135's. Why that McClellan was the radio source is puzzling. Use the materiel supply base as the SAC radio source?? Guess they didn't want the Ruskies and Chinese to know the names of the real SAC bases in norCal. Guess they'd rather risk having the AFMARS headquarters taken out instead of the B52s.

:D


Lee
W6EM
The actual "source" of the traffic was Offut, in Nebraska, SAC headquarters. However, communications centers throughout the AF, from all commands, were required to echo the messages to be sure they reached all aircraft in every theater. For example, one might hear this message:

Sky King, sky king, this is Ramey, this is Ramey (Ramey AFB, Puerto Rico) do not answer do not answer. Break break. Whiskey Tango Joilet Oscar, break break. Authentication India Pappa, authentication time 0413Z. I say again (message repeated.)

Then, listening on the same frequency, you might hear this message:

Kadena Kadena, this is Ramey, This is Ramey, Do not answer, do not answer. Request you echo the following on all available frequencies. Break break (and the FULL above Sky King message repeated, including the do not answer line.) Within a minute or two, the message would be repeated except now it would read:

Sky king sky king, this is Kadena this is Kadena ....

These messages were transmitted by all AFCS stations on HF USB, for they had to go worldwide in coverage. Many of the stations stations were SAC but several were not. They were chosen to echo the message because of stragetic location that would give them coverage over a specific geographical area.

Authentication times were also within minutes of the time you would hear the message, as it would cover the globe in under ten minutes.

For a time the format shifted to a four digit message instad of a four letter one. Except for that, the mesages remained the same format from sometime in the mid 1950s, through the mid 1970s. They were eventually replaced with the EAM, which has a very different format.

It will be noted the four digits or letters were the same worldwide. They would, though, change within the hour to something new, but again, that would be worldwide. AS I recall, the messages were never separated by more than an hour, 24 hours a day, and it may have been a half hour.

Why do I recall this? I wasn't involved directly. But for other reasons I had to monitor HF SSB aircraft frequencies constantly when I was on duty, and at certain times had to run tape recorders on one or another of these frequencies, for up to 12 hours at a time. (Though I would only be on duty 8, someone else would take over, of course.)

The quick two tone signal at the beginning is, I think, the Selcal, to be sure the radio is "awake" to receive the signal. It may also include ALE encoding, which is very important to military aircraft on long-haul operations, such as those of the B52.

Anyone who monitors the HF civilian air frequencies will also hear Selcal tests for commercial airliners. This is to confirm that the ground station can "page" the airliner for important in-flight information, such as weather updates, notices to airmen, requests to monitor for lost aircraft or ships, and other info as needed.

This will not only "wake" the radio - it will awaken the crew, which may very well be dozing on those long Pacific flights!!

Ed

[wb6bcn]

Quote[/b] (kb7aqd @ Nov. 17 2004,05:41)]The frequecy sweeper near 6786 kHz reported by WB6BCN sounds like CODAR, reported in Monitoring Times some months back. #Small 100 watt transmitters send these sweeps to measure speed and headings of ocean waves. I hear them in Phoenix in the 4.7 MHz area -- and some systems operate around 27.5 MHz. Different ranges are used to detect certain sizes of ocean waves for the benefit of weather observations and fishing.
Thanks for that input. #It wasn't easy because neary all the hits I got when I tried a search for "CODAR" kept returning "Numbers Frequencies".

Well, #after much trial and error I was with the help of others to come up with the following site. (http://codaros.com/intro_hf_radar.htm) which describes the radar. #I found this interesting, #to say the least. #

Again, #Thanks for the lead to the Codar Ocean Sensors.

[kl7aj]

There are some other Codar-like signals out there that might also be narrow-sweep ionosondes. Unlike standard ionsondes, which sweep the entire HF spectrum, the narrow range ones are used for specific diagnostics during certain ionospheric experiments, such as looking for SEE (simulated electromagnetic emission) a natural "laser" phenomena in the Auroral region. I know this because I've built several of them for the D.O.D.

Eric

[KE4MOB]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Nov. 17 2004,16:50)]The actual "source" of the traffic was Offut, in Nebraska, SAC headquarters. #However, communications centers throughout the AF, from all commands, were required to echo the messages to be sure they reached all aircraft in every theater.
Ed
I suspect that these days, this network is automated. #Offut (or whatever "master" station comes on the air) immediately brings up whatever other stations are on frequency at the time and they simulcast all on the same frequency. #

The "master station" will come up on freq and send a brief two tone burst (<.1 s). #The next station will come up and repeat the tone burst. #After less that 1/2 a second or so, all stations come up and the transmission begins. #When the transmission ends, the tone burst is repeated and all stations drop.

The end result is a very weird, very unique "echo" effect from 8 or 10 signals arriving at one location, but with different propagation delays.

[aa1mn]

While all of this is very interesting and all, where are the answers?

Some very interesting theorie have been presented here as well as interesting personal accounts but, what kinda gets me to wondering is that why, after all these years of purportedly being on the air (since WWI according to a few of the posts here) no one has anything more than theories to go on.

It seems that at some point, someone, somewhere, would have triangulated at least one or two of these mysterious stations and thus been able to make mention of a leaast a location that it was traced to.

Looks like this is something to be checked out on www.snopes.com for the urban legend reference files.

Chuck, AA1MN

[AB9FH]

Quote[/b] ]While all of this is very interesting and all, where are the answers?


Answers...to which question? #If you haven't been paying attention to 5 pages of posts here, these stations have existed for decades, all over the world! #They exist for all sorts of purposes, some of them known, most of them unknown. #Some of the transmissions seem to follow a schedule, some don't. #There are probably as many answers as there are stations.

[wb6bcn]

Quote[/b] ]aa1mn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While all of this is very interesting and all, where are the answers?


Did you look at the link I provided about the Codar Ocean Sensors? #Also, #if you click on other links provided, #or type either "Codar, #or Number Frequencies" into Dogpile or Google you will get tons of responses.

Some of the locations of the "Number Stations" are known, while others move around from one location to another.

[KE4MOB]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 18 2004,10:55)]While all of this is very interesting and all, where are the answers?

Some very interesting theorie have been presented here as well as interesting personal accounts but, what kinda gets me to wondering is that why, after all these years of purportedly being on the air (since WWI according to a few of the posts here) no one has anything more than theories to go on.

It seems that at some point, someone, somewhere, would have triangulated at least one or two of these mysterious stations and thus been able to make mention of a leaast a location that it was traced to.

Looks like this is something to be checked out on www.snopes.com for the urban legend reference files.

Chuck, AA1MN
"It seems that at some point, someone, somewhere, would have triangulated at least one or two of these mysterious stations and thus been able to make mention of a leaast a location that it was traced to."

Uhh...yeah, they have. Places like Havana, Mt. Weather, and Offut AFB come to mind in North America.

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]It seems that at some point, someone, somewhere, would have triangulated at least one or two of these mysterious stations and thus been able to make mention of a leaast a location that it was traced to."

Uhh...yeah, they have. #Places like Havana, Mt. Weather, and Offut AFB come to mind in North America.

Guess I was looking for things a bit more definitve than that, like pictures of the places, people who worked there that knows what's actually behind these "undecipherable" signals.

You know, like what the hell are the meanings BEHIND the mystery?

All of this is kinda like saying, "Yeah, Big Foot and Nessie have been spotted, we've even got some grainy pictures of the little beasties ... but, gory no, we ain't got no body yet."

Drug runners, secret ops?

In short, why is there still so much mystery surrounding them after so many years?

Chuck, AA1MN

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 18 2004,12:56)]Quote[/b] ]It seems that at some point, someone, somewhere, would have triangulated at least one or two of these mysterious stations and thus been able to make mention of a leaast a location that it was traced to."

Uhh...yeah, they have. #Places like Havana, Mt. Weather, and Offut AFB come to mind in North America.

Guess I was looking for things a bit more definitve than that, like pictures of the places, people who worked there that knows what's actually behind these "undecipherable" signals.

You know, like what the hell are the meanings BEHIND the mystery?

All of this is kinda like saying, "Yeah, Big Foot and Nessie have been spotted, we've even got some grainy pictures of the little beasties ... but, gory no, we ain't got no body yet."

Drug runners, secret ops? #

In short, why is there still so much mystery surrounding them after so many years? #

Chuck, AA1MN
Nothing in knowing, for most of us, Chuck, other than a little like why does one read a mystery novel?

Those with a "need to know", such as CIA, NSA, Rumfilled-DOD Intelligence (I coudln't resist), and their Russian, Cuban and Chinese counterparts I'm sure know what the signals are all about.

So, I'm confident that space aliens aren't sending messages to doom us all. #And, I won't stay awake at night wondering, either.

So, I don't see a pressing need for your trolling here, since there's really no controversy. #Try a different thread.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lee
W6EM

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]So, I don't see a pressing need for your trolling here, since there's really no controversy. Try a different thread.


Jeez, Lee, I take it you're making the above statement in jest.

I mean, considering that so many amateurs here are always so quick to point out how important being licensed radio operator is as it means they provide such a wide array of services to society I just sorta kinda figured that since this "mystery" of number stations has been around for so long that at least one of them would have found out something a bit more definitive about the origin and meaning behind this other than the speculation and rumors that have always existed about "covert espionage" and "drug dealers".

If I'm off base here and that makes me a troller then excusssseeee meeee.

Chuck, AA1MN

[WA4A]

It's called "Wy-Fi"....

[KE4MOB]

Maybe we don't know the answers because most facilities that sort of do this stuff in the US have signs like these.....

[KE4MOB]

Oops. That didn't work. Try here:

http://www.lazygranch.com/fg.htm

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (aa1mn @ Nov. 18 2004,14:49)]Quote[/b] ]So, I don't see a pressing need for your trolling here, since there's really no controversy. #Try a different thread.


Jeez, Lee, I take it you're making the above statement in jest.

I mean, considering that so many amateurs here are always so quick to point out how important being licensed radio operator is as it means they provide such a wide array of services to society I just sorta kinda figured that since this "mystery" of number stations has been around for so long that at least one of them would have found out something a bit more definitive about the origin and meaning behind this other than the speculation and rumors that have always existed about "covert espionage" and "drug dealers".

If I'm off base here and that makes me a troller #then excusssseeee meeee.

Chuck, AA1MN
You're getting warmed up. #First a demand for a 'real answer'. #Now, an off key remark about 'how important it is being an amateur and providing a wide range of products to society.' #Yes, it is important that we can work DX, and yes, offer supplemental emergency communications.

There are some folks responding to this thread that have had some experience with coded transmissions. #And, maybe they just aren't allowed to tell all, elst they break their promise to the feds. #There are even today a few hams that won't talk about what all they did in WWII. #Fancy that.

Hey, I'm not a gate keeper. #Post away. #Although this is beginning to sound like the Outer Limits thread anyway. #"Don't touch your TV dial, we've taken control." #We've even got the flying saucer haunts cranking away about Area 51 at Nellis AFB NV.

I'm outa here.

Lee
W6EM

[G3SEA]

W6EM hit it on the head.

007 would be proud of him http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

One can report such xmissions to the FCC,CIA etc but don't expect a reply or confirmation ( or a QSL #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif ).

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #73 & Aloha #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #KH6/G3SEA

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]There are some folks responding to this thread that have had some experience with coded transmissions. And, maybe they just aren't allowed to tell all, elst they break their promise to the feds. There are even today a few hams that won't talk about what all they did in WWII. Fancy that.


Yes, Lee, I too had considered that option and while that may be true I question everyone who had been involved with such transmissions -- not just in this country but abroad as well -- would have kept it a secret especially after all these years.

Surprising, and humorous as well, that you mention Area 51 as one of the oft quoted responses to those who believe in the Moon landing hoax theory is that it would have been impossible to keep such a thing a secret what with all the people involved.

Kinda what I'm thinking here ... course if you and want to meet outside Area 51, Lee, I'd be willing if you'd be kind enough to pay the bus fare!

Chuck, AA1MN

[KB1KIX]

Anybody that's listened to shortwave and read a Klingenfuss Shortwave Manual has heard or looked for 'em.

Seems Wired was just lookin' for something to write about.

Jonathan

[k2lck]

actually it is just the democrats spying on the republicans

[k1lwi]

what new this been around for years i been a swl since 1949 wendell k1lwi 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[ab8yy]

Well, once again, I have to throw out there my two cents. hi hi

First, I don't see any of those signals we have been discussing here as "mystery" signals. Simply because a mystery is something we don't know about - and I would venture to say we ALL know these signals exist and we know pretty much where they are coming from - or at least why they are there. As for decoding them? I'm not sure the inability to decipher a signal especially makes it a "mystery" signal. The information it contains might be a mystery, but not the signal itself.

The dipolmatic and military voice communications have switched, alot at least, to a digital voice scheme. These are identifiable when heard - this is the only really NEW signal showing up on SW today. Every other signal can be explained and for the most part can be identified and traced to who is sending it. Just because we can't decipher it doesn't make it a mystery. The data is a mystery, but it would be in violation of the Privacy (and now the terrorism) acts to attempt to decode some of them. Maybe that is why noone is talking too much about them.

If you listen and search the internet, you will find out what all of the signals are by their distinct sound they make. There are web sites that even have samples of the digital voice transmissions with the types listed and most likely who is sending them.

I agree that wired just needed somthing to take up space and I also think that enough space has been taken up with this subject here on QRZ.

Remember, Wired probably thinks when they turn a PSK31 or CLOVER - or even better yet a Digitrx Digital SSTV signal on OUR ham bands, it seems like a mystery and suspicious signal to them. Everything can be a strange signal to someone that isn't familiar with it. Even the simplest MFSK modes that we sometimes use.

73
Steve

[M1FDZ]

I remember listening to these number stations from Eastern Europe during the 1970's before 'The wall' came down, I did not realise they are still going, However I am somewhat glad the Russian 'Chopper' Has gone, wow that was the most irritating thing ever, half way through a QSO and it was like you were suddenly in a helicopter engine compartment. I like the intrigue of this and had a lookaround some of the suggested sites. I am so glad radio has not lost any of its fun and excitement. I have just read a book called 'Between Silk and Cyanide' by Leo Marks.isbn 0-684-86422-3. Brilliant and compelling reading, I would imagine most of these 'Numbers' stations are using onetime pads or similar, the crypto will of course be undecipherable. Some of the 'morse code' type stations are however marker beacons for coastal navigation, you can take a fix on these and get your position, they are now fast dissapearing as the GPS system is more commonly used by most transportation. 73's Max

[KB1KVD]

There is one on 4625kc LSB and it is transmitted from somewhere in russia. It sounds like rtty, psk31 or something like that.The only time you can hear it is at night and the only time the station has gone off air was around 1998-1999. During the time it was off air a voice came on the air and said test and a bunch of numbers. Check out this site if you want more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

73
Jason, KB1KVD
Kilo Bravo One Kilo Volts Direct

"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Art Bell, W6OBB

[W9WHE]

AA1MN writes:

"......but, what kinda gets me to wondering is that why, after all these years of purportedly being on the air (since WWI according to a few of the posts here) no one has anything more than theories to go on".

Well, we could tell you, but then we would have to ......
Never mind. Just enjoy the enigma.

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]AA1MN writes:

"......but, what kinda gets me to wondering is that why, after all these years of purportedly being on the air (since WWI according to a few of the posts here) no one has anything more than theories to go on".

Well, we could tell you, but then we would have to ......
Never mind. Just enjoy the enigma.

While your efforts to spare my well being are much appreciated on my part I'm quite sure that there are others, both members of the amateur radio community and not, who would probably wish the alternative on me.

Shall we take a vote?

Chuck, AA1MN

[k4wde]

[QUOTE=Quote ]AA1MN writes:


Shall we take a vote?

Chuck, AA1MN[/b]
Vote about what?
Crystal Palace?

Walt

(do not answer)

(break break)

4298

[aa1mn]

Quote[/b] ]AA1MN writes:


Shall we take a vote?

Chuck, AA1MN[/b]

Vote about what?
Crystal Palace?


Yes, vote about that ... and the other things too!

Mmm, Crystal Palace ... me like Crystal Palace, ahhhhh.

Chuck, AA1MN

[W9WHE]

Its all part of a vast left-winged conspiracy.

[kb7wfo]

hmm, it's all very strange!

[kc8fwd]

Quote[/b] (W4TEY @ Nov. 16 2004,15:17)]4 nights ago on 3.927 lsb spanish female 5 number groups coming in lima charlie! Invader in the amateur band. First time I ever heard them there doing numbers.
It is 12:30 EST here in West Virginia.I am hearing the Spanish Female on 3.927.00 I have heard her off and on since summer.I normally talk on 3.933 and asked the guys about it they said they have heard her for years on that freq.We often hear sounds that sound like a spaceship taking off and running up the band and back down find best propagation and send some data.I talked about that with a retired military friend and he said it was Over The Horizon Radar.How true this is I don't know 73 de KC8FWD

[K8MHZ]

The biggest mystery to me is why hasn't anyone reported a successful DF expedition to locate some of these transmitting from the US. If they all come from US military bases then the situation would become a bit less mysterious. If some of them come from strange grey boxes on top of abandoned apartment buildings or from hovering black helicopters, the mystery gets even better! Why not have some fun and chase a couple down?

[KC8YBW]

I first heard these numbers transmissions when I was a kid around 1959 and had just started listening to shortwave radio. I imagine this has been happening as long as there has been HF.
73

[w3ab]

FYI: CODAR

We host a 25 MHz CODAR unit, centered ~25.4 MHZ, here on the Monterey Bay which is used by the NPS in Monterey for oceanographic purposes.

[N6AQ]

Sky King Sky King 2esb4y you are about to be intercepted. Hmmm Sound familier to anyone, if so drop me an e-mail..LOLOLOL

[WW3JR]

I've read with interest all the posts on this topic and being a true believer I must offer this theory.

I'm thinking that the numbers stations are part of the well established network of one S. Clause and the information being broadcast is encrypted information on who has been naughty and who has been nice. #You will never crack this code so just sit back and wait until Christmas morning. #Seasons Greetings DE WB3EKB

[N2AH]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Nov. 16 2004,13:42)]Number 9........Number 9.........Number 9
No! You have to play it backwards.

Art, N2AH

[KG6DHV]

When I lived in Magdalena, New Mexico in the late 70's I kept getting this persistent interference on a Bearcat 210 scanner. It consisted of a series of musical like tones repeated over and over. It sounded similar to the tones in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", but higher in frequency and faster. The interference, although persistant, was intermittent. It would break squelch in bursts or longer periods. I could not figure out a correlation between the time of reception and other factors such as time of day, MUF, propogation, or anything else.

Magdalena is located about 15 miles east of the National Science Foundation operated "Very Large Array" radio telescopes on the Plains of San Augustine. They are obviously receiving antennas, however, they were often mistaken for a SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) type facility.

I began to suspect that the original frequency of this strange broadcast must be at or near the IF frequency of the scanner. A look in the owners manual found that the IF was at 10.7 MHz. I tuned up 10.7 on the HF receiver and I received the broadcasts a little more clearly, but still not with full quieting.

Doo do doo do, Doo do doo do . . . . .You're traveling through another dimension. . . . What was the origin?