Who's a trainfan?

[N7AAO]

Since there are a lot of people on the "I love" thread choosing trains, I figured it might be nice to see just who these trainfans are.

So, who are you? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KB1GYQ]

Anything large and run by steam is wonderful. Nothing like belching smoke and the sound of the cylinders. You even been on the train up the side of Mt. Washington? 30-40 degrees slope at points!

[W5HTW]

What kind of train can climb a 30 degree slope? Most have trouble at 4 degrees. There is, though, an engine (I have forgotten what they call it) that is a worm drive and it can go up some slopes of 6 to 8 percent. Most of them were narrow gauge. One still in operation as a short-run (about a half mile) tourist train is in Central City, Colorado. Or used to be, when I was a wee dab younger, growing up around there. There is a special name for them and it escapes me at the moment. I think the incline at Pike's Peak hits about 20 degrees. But that's a cog railway. There was or is also one around Chattanooga, TN. And I used to ride an incline railway in Laon, France.

As a kid I was raised around steam engines, but the big new Diesel-Electrics fascinated me when they came out. I loved the sound of them accelerating away from a full stop, as the motors (electric) would be cycled up, ramped up, to avoid overheating. And they made a beautiful sound as the engines rose and fell in their exhaust.

Spent a couple of years living in Silverton, Colorado, though, and that was the best train experience. In the dead still summer morning, the double-header from Durango enters the Park (Baker's Park, the narrow valley) from the Animas Canyon, and lets go with a mournful steam whistle that echos so much around the mountains it is very difficult to differentiate between the actual whistle and the echos. And the town comes alive, for another trainload of money -- uh, whoops, "tourists" - is arriving, generally full of Texans with oil money. Stores open, and people poke their heads out to watch the trail of smoke and listen to the puffing of those engines. (Sometimes it's a single header, of course.) Then the last train to Durango leaves around 2:30 and the town shuts down, goes back to sleep. But, oh, wow, there is no other whistle like it in the world. It sends chills along the spine, but they are pleasant chills. The air fills with smoke and cinders, the ground with tourists, and the restaurants and shops with money.

And what a wonderful ride, 45 miles from Durango to Silverton, and a lot of it you can actually see, between cinders in your eyes.

Now I'm all grown up. And I still love trains. Over my computer monitor sits an HO gauge Santa Fe GP-7, on a short piece of track, the only room I have for a dream model railroad.

Ed

[KB1GYQ]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Oct. 29 2004,23:00)]What kind of train can climb a 30 degree slope? Most have trouble at 4 degrees.
see http://www.cog-railway.com/03what.htm

Quote[/b] ]The average grade is 25% with the steepest being 37.4%.

Been there, done that... It's amazing.

[k0pvw]

Trainfan or Railfan whats the difference, Is there anything else out there other than BNSF?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[XV2PS]

Here, 8 years ago still were using steamers for manoeuvring. Nothing compares!

[N8CPA]

The geared steamers are Shays, Heislers, and Climaxes. #There are also steep angle cog railways.

Part of my own road to Amateur Radio involved a number of years in model railroading. #And I still like waiting at grade crossings. #Darn, I miss cabooses!

[K8ERV]

The Durango to Silverton (co) is a narrow-gage rail, but the specially-built engines are full size! Wonder if these are unique?

I once read a VERY thick book on steam engine maintenance. A wonder they ever got out of the roundhouse----

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[N8CPA]

One of the best books about railroading I ever read was "Clear the Tracks." (I think that was the name of it). #I read it about 30 years ago, while I was working at the library. It was the autobiography of a steam engineer in the 1890's, or so. #I don't recall the author's name. #

Among the steam engines he operated, was a "hoodoo" engine Number 36. #It was a cambelback that had a penchant for killing people. #They just seemed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and the camelback would get them. #

Though the engineer had accepted the job with an open mind, by the time he was finished with that engine, he was superstitious about engine numbers of 9, and its multiples.

A very good read for a railfan. #I just wish I could remember the author's name.

Post edit: I was searching the library DataBase when the actual name of the book popped into my mind. It was "Clear the Tracks," by Joseph Bromley. Worth it, if you can find it.

[kc2kde]

I put my MTH model train up every winter- does that count?

[N7AAO]

Have any of you played with the Microsoft Train Simulator? You can drive several trains, from an old steam engine to a diesel engine to the most modern trains from Amtrak (Acela) or from Japan. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc2kde]

Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 30 2004,07:09)]Have any of you played with the Microsoft Train Simulator? You can drive several trains, from an old steam engine to a diesel engine to the most modern trains from Amtrak (Acela) or from Japan. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Nope, never heard of it- is it online? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (kc2kde @ Oct. 30 2004,07:15)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 30 2004,07:09)]Have any of you played with the Microsoft Train Simulator? You can drive several trains, from an old steam engine to a diesel engine to the most modern trains from Amtrak (Acela) or from Japan. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Nope, never heard of it- is it online? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
It's not an online game, but there's a webpage about it... here it is. (http://www.microsoft.com/games/trainsimulator/)

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W5HTW]

Yeah, that's it!! Shay engines. Several in Central City, CO.

The full size engines on the D&SNGR are "cut down" from full size and outfitted as narrow gauge. I think possibly the same applies to the Chama and Toltec NGR. I have never ridden the Chama, but have prowled around the yard and shot photos of the engines and other equipment. Have ridden the D&SNG several times, both when I lived in Silverton and later, after moving to New Mexico.

A great book on the narrow gauge railroads of Colorado's San Juan Mountains and the gold-silver era is "The Rainbow Route." A brand new and much-autographed copy (I knew many of the contributors and writers) of it was given to me in 1981 and it occupies a top spot on my book shelf even today.

Today I will still pull over along US60 and watch a Burlington and SF Northern quad header "steaming" for the pass across the mountains. But I sure miss the caboose.

Couple of questions for the deep-into-it railroaders. Someone told me, years ago, drawbar pull was what regulated the speed of assisting locomotives, but I would think today it would be, at least in multiple header trains, some form of electronic control. However, in tail end pusher engines, it would almost have to be either telemetry or drawbar pull, yes? No? Maybe? And in the days of steam, how did a tail pusher regulate power? Or a middle-of-train engine? Someone can explain that to me? I never knew, and was too shy to ask a railroader.

Ed

[N8CPA]

I believe today's MUs are electronic. #And I've always wondered about how it was done in the days of steam. #I read somwhere that there were special whistle sigs, but who the heck could hear them unless you were close to the source engine?

Do you know if the drawbar was regulated by the airbrake supply?

[K4KWH]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell a soul, but I am a veteran of 23 years of Southern Railway and Norfolk Southern. Did a lot of stuff. If you ever wanted to run a simulator, you should've run the company's simulator that traveled around the system. Panoramic theatre style inside a huge motor home. Instructor would dial up whatever division they were training you on and it was if you WERE actually there. REAL crossings, towns, speed restrictions, real cars crossing in front of you. Even the non T & E employees were allowed to operate it if it was in town.

Now I am not a fan. I was a railroad employee, spent my career in railroading. IOW, I went to work, did my job and went home and FORGOT about trains.

We used to run into some REAL doozy train buffs and we tried to avoid them if we could. Of course, not ALL of them were like that, but like any activity, there were those who stuck out because of their militancy. Those, we called 'foamers', because they would come onto the right of way in striped overalls, cap, red bandana, and fake pocket watch and "foam" at the mouth at the sight of an old freight drag! Or stand transfixed by one of the old steam engines NS used to run on excursions.:p And you better not get in their way if they were trying to take a photo; they'd knock you down!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Well, they'd try to.

We employees would smile, or giggle at them out there taking pictures or mock their garb, and call them the "National Railway Hysterical Society" (cuz they'd get "hysterical" at the sight of a train!)

I rode the engines of the Southern Crescent plenty of times (Trains 1 & 2) deadheading on the Piedmont Division. I once hid in one of the FP7's to get away from a persistent fan. I rode on some of the steam engines during the excursions including NW 611 (safe from the questions of "rabid" fans) Of course, I knew some fans that were nice, but there were some that just didn't understand that you didn't WANT to talk about trains 24/7. The perspective INSIDE the railroad is totally different, believe me.

I am happily retired (age 56) and I don't miss it one little bit! I pulled my tour and and now am "in the clear". Them fish shore bite nice and that old Jeep I'm restoring keeps me out of trouble. I never even notice when a train goes thru town.

Y'all have fun with them trains, heah?


73

[N7AAO]

Well, I dunno how "real" it is, but there is one scenario in MSTS that has you taking a full freight train down Marias Pass in Montana... at night... in the snow. Definitely interesting trying to keep the speed under control.

[N8CPA]

KWH, in my years as a rail fan, I knew someone like you described. But I finally grew out of it.

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My interest was mainly in aspects of technical history--at least, I like to say it was. But the fact is I like the beat of the hooves of the iron horses. Some people are affected that way. Diesels don't really excite me, but I rode in a GP-9 as a teenager. And I have ridden in the cab of a narrow gauge steamer.

I think the fascination with steam engines is due mainly to the overt mechanics. So many visible moving parts constitute a powerful idiot's delight and diversion. One Smithsonian writer even described the allure in terms of Classical Greek aesthetic elements--words to the effect, "Mix air, water, fire, some earth in the form of coal, and the damned thing works!" It certainly works for me!

[W3MIV]

Ed's question about the helpers created a memory bubble that burst in my bubble head.

When I was a Boy Scout back in the 1950s we used to go to the Big Run area of Garrett County in western Maryland for a summer camp of a week during mid-summer. In those days the old CCC camp was still intact along Big Run and the MD park service rented the old cabins to groups like the Scouts. For boys of 11 through 14, this was high adventure.

Nearby was the Savage River reservoir and dam, and the B&O's famed Backbone Grade paralleled the road by the dam for about a mile or so. Coal drags one way and empties the other.

The B&O was fully dieselized by then, of course, since the B&O was one of the leaders in dieselization (alas!) but the road kept a stable of EM-1 articulated locos as helpers on this grade. What a sight they were blasting up grade and later, silent as ghosts, drifting back down in reverse.

Shamefully, every one of the EM-1s was cut up for scrap, and not a single example left in the B&O Museum in Baltimore, where you will find the largest Shay ever built—the Western Maryland's #6. I can only hope it survived the awful roof collapse that took place during the forty-inch snow we had a couple of years back.

It's hard to be a rail fan now. The companies have finally realized how to be businesses instead of railroads and most of the old romance is, like that caboose, just a memory to cherish.

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[WA7KKP]

I think the more common term would be railfan, and I consider myself one.

There are many different aspects of railfanning, from following the latest motive power to steamers and electrics/interurbans. I am a fan of the now defunct Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific (Milwaukee Road), and especially its 3000 volt DC electrification in Montana and Washington from 1916 to 1974. Alas, barely a trace of the railroad exists any more, but some of the substations and a couple of the electric motors still exist in museums.

Having grown up in Montana, I was witness to this noble experiment while attending the annual ham radio potluck picnics held in Harlowton MT in the 50's and early 60's. The picnic was held at Chief Joseph Park, behind which was the rodeo stadium and the electrified yards. As a young kid I always wondered about all the wires over the tracks -- in 1973 I found a model RR magazine with a feature article on the Milwaukee electrification and I finally understood, but by then the corporation had decided to phase out electric operations. This in light of the Arab Oil Embargo and rising energy prices for hydrocarbon fuels. The Milwaukee contracted with local power companies for electrical power, most of which was derived from hydroelectric dams in MT and WA.

I like the steamers too, but fortunately there are still some that are operable. The electrification of the Milwaukee is now just a memory and a collection of pictures in coffee table books. in 1920 it was the longest mainline electrification in the US and operated with a few of the original GE box-cab motors up to the last days.

Gary WA7KKP
and MILW RR electric fan --
Boxcabs, Quills, Little Joe's

[k0pvw]

Did somebody say Nazi-southern the anti-railfan railroad, I go back to is there anything other than BNSF?

[K4KWH]

I guess so, considering that SR ran fan/steam excursions until merger and NS continued them until about 8 (?) years ago. #Insurance issues and a derailment involving NW 611 and the company president who was at the throttle when it happened. It got company officials thinking. #While I can't, nor won't, defend your perception of NS as "anti-railfan", I do know some of the reasons why. #I was THERE from 1977 until 2001. #One thing that affected railfans on NS was liability. #People have become SOOO prone to sue at the drop of a hat.
Non-railroad people have NO BUSINESS prowling around on railroad property I don't care HOW much you think you know about railroading (which for most people is not much). #The steam excursion trains themselves became a nuisance to management and employees alike. #When they came to town they caused such a ruckus that we couldn't operate with the yard. Once the fans found that a steam train was in the yard, (and the curious public as well), they swarmed the yard in spite of signs prohibiting trespassers. #The phones literally jumped off the table and we couldn't build trains #(waybills) for the phones. #And because there were things going on concerning the company at all times locally and at the division points, you couldn't ignore them. #When you couldn't get thru to the Yardmaster, or the Division Chief Dispatcher screamed at you because the phone was so busy, it didn't make you want to come to work. I actually marked off a few times when there was a steam train scheduled on the lineup. That's how bad it was. #It would actually cause the superintendent to shut down the yard for fear of some trespasser getting hurt or killed. And, of course, the family of that poor fan would sue the company for being where he wasn't supposed to be in the FIRST place.

Norfolk Southern tolerated railfans pretty well until (I believe it was) CBS News ran a story about a young boy that was killed because he was out on a trestle. #There were signs posted everywhere "NO TRESPASSING" and "DANGER", and "DO NOT WALK OR FISH ON TRESTLE." The young boy ignored the signs and went out on the trestle where there was no 'stand out' or platform where he could get in the clear. #Train came along and ran him down. #It WAS the young man's fault for being out there. #The news media picked up this story and made it look like that the train went after the boy #and ran him down on purpose. #Yes, the railroad had to pay, not from liability, but because pressure from the public and the story tainted the facts so that NS couldn't get a fair shake in the press or the courts. #NS AND most of its employees were absolutely livid over it! #It was NOT fair. Of course, we were sad that the little boy got killed, but it was not right that the incident was played out with such bias. #But, it was NOT right. NS management was enraged at this and immediately put it out to its employees and railroad police: report or remove ANY trespasser from company property at once. No exception. No excuse. If you were found walking down the tracks (using NS tracks as a 'road'), RR dicks would remove you. #If you were on the RofW taking pictures, you would be asked to leave.

While your perception of NS may be bad, their seeming hostility towards railfans is not malicious. It is because they got burned by people trespassing and the liberal news media that will do or say ANYTHING to get a story:angry:

Railfans sometimes forget that railroads are not there for your amusement; they are there to make a profit for their stockholders and investors. While this may seem harsh (and it's not), the railroad is not a toy. It is a DANGEROUS place and it is not a place for the inexperienced. Ever wonder why the railroad frowns on placing coins on the railhead to be mashed? Because the coin *can* fly out from the wheels instead of just being squeezed and it then becomes a missile that can put out eyes and otherwise injure innocent bystanders.

Finally, while I suppose all railfans have their favorite roads, let's not be *too* hasty in condemning NS. You may find that one of its predecessor roads was a real innovator and a truly modern road. That road was Southern Railway. It was one of the FIRST roads to promote mechanization of track maintenance and invent machines you see on the rails today.
Some of them carry the name of Tamper and Kershaw who bought patent rights from SR to build such machines. It was one of the very first to say goodbye to steam when it bought the GM
demonstrator set that traveled the US just prior to dieselization. #SR had a shop in Charlotte, NC where many of these innovations and machines found their way onto other roads. #The Big John hopper came about when the government came up with a big per-car tariff on grain in the '50s. SR just doubled the size of the cars effectively halving the tariff! US took them to court and LOST! Many inventions and rail-related moderizations came about on that "Nazi-southern" railroad. #Some things about NS, I agree on (*they are very aggressive in employee discipline, for example), but there are some good things about it. #All in all, I made a good living there, and, except for a few things, I am glad I worked there.:)

73

K4KWH

[W3MIV]

Indeed, KWH, you might say that the old Southern gave a "green light to innovation!"


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (kb0pvw @ Oct. 29 2004,20:29)]Trainfan or Railfan whats the difference, Is there anything else out there other than BNSF?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Yes....There's UP, IP, we all P with wee wee. Also CSX, NS, KCS, MRL, etc.

[kc7jty]

Trains & railroads are my # 1 thing. Before radio and beer even.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ Oct. 30 2004,04:47)]TOM K8ERV #Montrose Colo
I came over Tennessee pass and down the Royal gorge about 12 yrs ago hobo style.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 31 2004,17:49)]Well, I dunno how "real" it is, but there is one scenario in MSTS that has you taking a full freight train down Marias Pass in Montana... at night... in the snow. Definitely interesting trying to keep the speed under control.
Did you know when the heavy drags (grainers, etc) come down the west side from Marias the lead power actually PULLS while the train is "stretched out" with the brakes? Those burning brake shoes can really smell bad.

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ Nov. 02 2004,19:30)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 31 2004,17:49)]Well, I dunno how "real" it is, but there is one scenario in MSTS that has you taking a full freight train down Marias Pass in Montana... at night... in the snow. Definitely interesting trying to keep the speed under control.
Did you know when the heavy drags (grainers, etc) come down the west side from Marias the lead power actually PULLS while the train is "stretched out" with the brakes? Those burning brake shoes can really smell bad.
Yep, believe it or not, the game's tutorial teaches you to take up the "slack" between the cars. It rates you on passenger comfort or cargo damage, depending on what you're carrying, and you get marked down for accelerating before all the slack is taken out. If memory serves, the trains in the Marias Pass scenarios have separate train and locomotive brakes that allow you to "stretch" the train.

All aboard!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (WA7KKP @ Nov. 01 2004,15:53)]#The electrification of the Milwaukee is now just a memory and a collection of pictures in coffee table books. #in 1920 it was the longest mainline electrification in the US and operated with a few of the original GE box-cab motors up to the last days.

Gary WA7KKP
and MILW RR electric fan --
Boxcabs, Quills, Little Joe's
I guess you know you can ride a bicycle from the St. Paul tunnel (ID/MT border) all the way down the 2% grade going west (I forget how many miles it is now) on the old CMStP&P grade then have the group bus take you & your bike back up to the top. I got to walk most of it years ago before the bike trail officially opened. Thats glorious country indeed.
I often fantasize of going back in time to the 20s and travelling across country from Philadelphia (where I was born) to Chicago on the B&O then CMStP&P to Seattle. Boy...what I'd give to take that trip.

[kc7jty]

AAO:
I can remember many times the "grain empties" going east up the fisher river just east of Libby, MT in run 8 @ 15 mph with the two SD 40's traction motors being close to overheating in the summer. This was in the ol BN days. Now they sail up there at 50 with ample (3 GE 44CWs) pulling.

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ Nov. 02 2004,19:58)]AAO:
I can remember many times the "grain empties" going east up the fisher river just east of Libby, MT in run 8 @ 15 mph with the SD 40's traction motors being close to overheating in the summer. This was in the ol BN days. Now they sail up there at 50 with ample (3 GE 44CWs) pulling.
I bet a lot of those trains are put together right here in Spokane to head east, too... we've got a good size trainyard out near the fairgrounds. I've actually seen the BNSF engine they used in MSTS here in town. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Nov. 02 2004,20:00)]I bet a lot of those trains are put together right here in Spokane to head east, too...
Not much is done in Spokane any more. The hump yard in Pasco does a good bit of work and the new facility at Hauser, ID is taking a lot of activity away from Spokane now. The grain empties came ready made from the ports of Kalama, Portland, Tacoma, etc.

Looks like Bushy won....maybe its some premature rant though.

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (kb0pvw @ Nov. 01 2004,20:42)]Did somebody say Nazi-southern the anti-railfan railroad, I go back to is there anything other than BNSF?
Wasn't/Isn't the Sacred Faith (Santa Fe) portion of your bnSF the same anti rail fan type road as the NS? They are the ones running the BNSF now anyway.

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ Nov. 02 2004,20:07)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Nov. 02 2004,20:00)]I bet a lot of those trains are put together right here in Spokane to head east, too...
Not much is done in Spokane any more. The hump yard in Pasco does a good bit of work and the new facility at Hauser, ID is taking a lot of activity away from Spokane now. The grain empties came ready made from the ports of Kalama, Portland, Tacoma, etc.

Looks like Bushy won....maybe its some premature rant though.
I know one thing that is still done in Spokane... the Amtrak Empire Builder heading west from Chicago is split into two trains here, one heading for Portland and one for Seattle, and in the other direction, the Portland and Seattle consists are combined into one train for the trip to Chicago.

As for Mr. Bush, given 2000, I ain't gonna call it "won" till he sticks his hand on the Bible in January. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[WA5KRP]

KWH,


You are dead on the money right. Excursions for railfans used to be a big hit and excellent PR for NorfolkSouthern. Engine 611 is one of the most beautiful steam engines ever made and attracted literally hundreds of thousands of steam lovers.

But idiots did what idiots do and the lawyers fooked it up for everybody and NS paid dearly. It's a damn shame. NS DOES NOT DESERVE THE HEAT IT GOT.

A few jackasses ruined it for all of us. Anybody that knocks that railroad are clueless to the hand of friendship and community service NorfolkSouthern extended to the people it served.


WA5KRP
Texas

[WA2ZDY]

I will always cherish the memories I have of the GG1 fleet hauling you-know-what down the Penn Central mainline through NJ.

I understand by the way what K4KWH means. I like to think I just enjoyed my observations from a distance and never caused trouble, but knowing how teenagers are . . .

I finally had the opportunity to climb on and over a GG1 a few years ago. Wow. It was like a religious experience for me. But now that it's out of my system, I'm ok. !

[N8CPA]

Someone mentioned GG-1's. #Growing up where I did, I only saw pictures of the things. There were no electric railways left locally by the time I was born. #But, when I traveled to D.C. in my early 20's (1971), I saw one waiting on a siding. #Given the short freight consist, I suspect it was serving in reduced capacity at that point, possibly just switching. That was before all the rolling stock had been repainted for PC, and Conrail was still in the future. #That keystone was beautiful!

An interesting thing about the old Pennsy. I used to go train watching at Columbus Union Station when I was growing up. What intrigued me about some of the Pennsylvania RR passenger trains was that they used cabooses rather than observation cars. The old National Limited, at times, even used boxcars in lieu of baggage cars.

They looked intriguingly incongruous. Three Fairbanks Morse (I think) A-B-A engines, a few box cars, a long
string of those deep, maroon pullmans, trailed by a caboose!

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ Nov. 03 2004,00:47)]KWH,


You are dead on the money right. #Excursions for railfans used to be a big hit and excellent PR for NorfolkSouthern. #Engine 611 is one of the most beautiful steam engines ever made and attracted literally hundreds of thousands of steam lovers.

But idiots did what idiots do and the lawyers fooked it up for everybody and NS paid dearly. #It's a damn shame. #NS DOES NOT DESERVE THE HEAT IT GOT.

A few jackasses ruined it for all of us. #Anybody that knocks that railroad are clueless to the hand of friendship and community service NorfolkSouthern extended to the people it served.


WA5KRP
Texas
Yes, the steam excursions DID bring a lot of GOOD PR to SR and NS--which is why it continued up to about 1996(??) or so. It wasn't that we didn't enjoy the old trains, but people truly don't realize how much trouble the railroad went to to run the steam trains. While fun in and of themselves they did create some "interesting" situations and aggravations. 611 was a big engine and its rigid driving truck meant one had to be careful where you went with it. The old wye at Charlotte was behind our shop where I worked at the end of my career, and if it became necessary to turn the engine, it had to be done veeeeeeewy carefuwwy (Elmer Fudd)- and slowly. The radius in the wye was almost more than 611 could handle, and the Trainmaster and Track Supervisors were bent down intently eyeing the rail for fear of turning the rail over or spreading the gauge. Amid much creaking and groaning, the big 4-8-4 would inch its way around the wye. Oddly enough, the NW Mallet with its flexible trucks could negotiate the wye better than 611 could--and it was MUCH bigger (NW 1218). There was one case down in Columbia, SC where we backed down the wye to return to Charlotte, and the steam engine proved to be too slippery on the tight radius. Each time we tried to stretch the train and move those heavy coaches, the engine would slip down loudly much to the glee of the fans whose tape recorders were thick as thieves out the windows. Now to us railroaders this is NOT funny because slipping wheels burn cups and gouges in the rails and does the equipment and RofW no good. We had to get a shove from a set of diesels so as to get under way.

Surely, bad press and liability issues led to the discontinuance of steam trains and eventually ambilivence towards railfans. While fans were tolerated and their presence welcomed as good public relations for many years, suddenly with the depiction of the railroad as an evil villain, there was no way to distinguish the "regular" public from railfans and NS said, OK, we will just not have anyone on the RofW without reason, so they would shoo anyone off unless they had business there. There was a HUGE emphasis on safety at that time within the company (they won at least 10 Harriman Trophies in a row for employee safety), and the CBS attack on NS did not help. They were FURIOUS over that, and I can't say I blame them. It's sad, if you are a fan, but it was caused by events not of NS's making.

73

[N8CPA]

The last long steam excursion I was on was pulled by the same N&W engine that pulled the Freedom Train. They actually stopped and evacuated the train because the track sensors detected very high engine heat. It took them 30 minutes to figure out, "Wait a minute! Steamers run hotter than diesels!" We reboarded and finished the trip to Toledo.

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Nov. 03 2004,11:54)]The last long steam excursion I was on was pulled by the same N&W engine that pulled the Freedom Train. #
I know there was more than one Freedom Train lead engine in 1976. In San Antonio, we lucked out and got former Southern Pacific GS-4, 4-8-4 Northern #4449 in bicentennial red, white, and blue instead of its traditional Daylight colors.

http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/gallery/aft/4449gh1AFT.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/gallery/aft/4449bridgegh1-AFT.jpg

I lucked out big time and rode the excursion from San Antonio to Houston and then on to New Orleans. It was a monumental two days.

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Nov. 03 2004,09:54)]The last long steam excursion I was on was pulled by the same N&W engine that pulled the Freedom Train. #They actually stopped and evacuated the train because the track sensors detected very high engine heat. #It took them 30 minutes to figure out, "Wait a minute! Steamers run hotter than diesels!" #We reboarded and finished the trip to Toledo.
That was triggered by the hotbox detectors which sent warnings to some point on the railroad which notified the train that there was a hot journal. Railroad rules at that time required that a train must stop if a hotbox was detected. Of course, they knew it was most likely caused by the steam engine, but they still had to stop. After all, if it were ignored, what if there WERE a hotbox?
Later technology eliminated the hotbox stations, and hotboxes became more infrequent with the retirement of older cars and the newer roller bearing journals.

I do remember being on third trick (night shift) and flagging a train that came into the yard with the journal boxes blazing! More than once. That is not a good thing,
as it can burn off journals and cause disasterous derailments. Incidentally, NW 611 was originally equipped with roller bearing back in 1950 when it was built. It was capable of 120 MPH--so they say, but I wouldn't have wanted to be on it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73

[K4KWH]

(Shudder) #Let's not be talking about runaways:( . That makes a railroader break out in chills.
Some of you may not know, but NS has the steepest mainline grade East of the Mississippi. #That grade is at Saluda Mountain, NC. I forgot the exact gradient, but if you've been there, you will wonder how metal wheels on steel rails even got up and down that grade.
When tackling Saluda downgrade the train must stop. There are car retarders all along this grade (if memory serves me--I only came in contact with the Asheville District at Spartanburg, SC), and there are sand tracks that are aligned to the turnout; you must approach that switch at 4 MPH for the switch to set for the mainline. #The tricky thing is that once the trainline is "cracked" open a certain amount, and the car retarders are turned up, then the train is allowed to proceed at 4 MPH. THAT's how steep #the grade is. #You get about one chance to apply brakes, as you will accelerate so quickly, the air pumps cannot recharge the brake line fast enough to arrest the now quickly accelerating train.:( #So, you WILL go into the sand track! #

Luckily, that doesn't happen often--the engineers seem to have the routine down to a science. The secret is the routine at the TOP of the hill. If it is done right, the train will ease down the grade and not run away. #I've done it on the simulator, but not in real life as I worked on the Piedmont Division (north end), and it is an interesting trip down that grade. it is also neat to be able to monitor your slack forces as you operate in hilly country. Part of the train will be stretched, part will be bunched.

73

[WA5KRP]

Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Nov. 04 2004,18:32)](Shudder) #Let's not be talking about runaways:( . That makes a railroader break out in chills.......Some of you may not know, but NS has the steepest mainline grade East of the Mississippi. #
I have SOOOOO wanted to see that operation. It's got to be one of the scariest stretch of tracks in the US.

Let me show you what we're talkin' about.......... (http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1950/50-2/saluda.html)



WA5KRP
Texas

[kg6saj]

Quote[/b] (K4KWH @ Nov. 04 2004,17:32)](Shudder) #Let's not be talking about runaways:( . That makes a railroader break out in chills.
Sorry - Didn't mean to upset anybody with my post. Guess I was out line. - Tim

[N8CPA]

I have heard of, but never seen, Saluda.
But I rode around the Horseshoe Curve in moonlight aboard the National Limited in July 1971. Lets you know why songs are written about the Allegheny Moon!