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View Full Version : Common sense advice for both sides


N7AAO
10-30-2004, 05:04 PM
Courtesy San Diego Union-Tribune (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/op-ed/perkins/20041029-9999-lz1e29perkins.html):

Quote[/b] ]Richard Nixon would have captured the 1960 presidential election but for five states he lost by 5,000 votes or fewer – Missouri, Illinois, Nevada, New Mexico and Hawaii.

Gerald Ford would have retained the presidency in 1976 but for two states he lost by no more than 5,600 votes – Ohio and Hawaii.

Though the 1960 and 1976 elections were close, though they turned on a few thousand votes in a handful of states, the outcomes were faithfully accepted by the American people, by Republicans and Democrats alike.

That's because neither Nixon or Ford demanded that the votes be recounted in the states in which they lost by narrow margins. And neither Nixon or Ford insisted they were denied election because of voting irregularities in some state or another.

Then there was the 2000 election.

George W. Bush and Al Gore went to bed on election night uncertain whether they had won or lost.

Later, when all of Florida's voting precincts had reported their tallies, Bush had eeked out victory in the Sunshine State, pushing him over the top in the Electoral College.

But Gore refused to accept that he lost Florida, that he lost the presidency, by so small a margin. He refused to put the national interest before his own selfish interest.

He dispatched his lawyers to the Sunshine State to contest the election. And his lawyers used every legal maneuver in their arsenal to overturn Gore's defeat – challenging the manner in which Florida conducted its balloting, claiming that certain voter blocs were disenfranchised.

The result is that a portion of the populace refuses to this day to accept the outcome of the 2000 election (despite a post-election ballot review by a consortium of media organizations that concluded, unequivocally, that Bush won Florida no matter how the votes were counted or recounted).

...

Indeed, Doug Lewis, executive director of the Election Center, a nonprofit organization, told the Associated Press this week that all the legal wrangling is "disastrous for fundamental faith in the system" by which presidents have been elected since this nation's founding.

"Pretty soon," he said, "You get people saying, 'Shoot, then why bother to vote?' There has been such a concerted effort to beat up on the system itself that people need to step back and understand that if you destroy the very process by which your candidate gets elected, then what have you gained?"

I think it is time for a moment of grace in this year's presidential election.

John Kerry and George W. Bush ought to take a few minutes out of their schedule to have a heart to heart chat, much as Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy had six days after the 1960 presidential election.

The Democrat and Republican should agree to accept the outcome of this year's presidential election, no matter how close, no matter which of the two candidates comes out on top. They also should forswear any post-election lawsuits. And they should urge their supporters to do the same.

If Kerry and Bush were to evince such statesmanship, they not only would do much to restore faith in the American electoral system, they also would do much to promote civility between all but the most rabid Democrats and Republicans.

That would be a great service to this country.

I agree... time for a gentleman's agreement between gentlemen, like there was pre-2000.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

k4kyv
10-30-2004, 05:52 PM
Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 30 2004,10:04)]... a portion of the populace refuses to this day to accept the outcome of the 2000 election (despite a post-election ballot review by a consortium of media organizations that concluded, unequivocally, that Bush won Florida no matter how the votes were counted or recounted).
There were also allegations of election irregularities, such as bogus ex-felon lists and other means that kept some 60,000 would-be voters from casting a ballot in Florida, in addition to the confusion oven the infamous "butterfly" ballot.

There were allegations of voter fraud and irregularities in the 1960 election as well, for example in Chicago. The candidates accepted the election results because even in the closest states it was a matter of a few thousand votes, not a few hundred.

The tie-breaking margin of victory in Florida was probably smaller than the number of people registered to post on this BB.

The best hope for avoiding a re-run of 2000 is for there to be clear margins of victory in enough states that the election outcome is indisputable.

Many countries avoid this problem by holding run-off elections if no cadidate receives more than 50% of the vote. Minor party candidates are thus eliminated in the first round of voting and the runoff becomes a clear choice between two major cadidates. In the US a runoff would have to be done on a state-by-state basis, and would be necessary only in contested states. This would be possible under the existing Constitution, since it is left to each state exactly how to choose their electors.

Another reform, short of abolishing the electoral college altogether would be to scrap the winner-takes-all system in the states. In each state the number of electors is determined by adding two (representing the two senators) to the number of representatives that state has in the house of representatives. In Tennessee it has been proposed to give only two electoral votes (representing the two senators, who are elected statewide) to the candidate that carries statewide, and for the rest, let the candidate that wins in each congressional district have the electoral vote that represents that district. While maintaining the electoral college system, the electoral vote would more closely reflect the nation-wide popular vote while, unlike a nationwide one-man-one-vote popular election, would still preserve state and regional interests. I believe such a system is already in place in Maine, and something similar exists in one other state.

I have heard a theory that Nixon was hurt by his 5 o'clock shadow in one of the 1960 debates.

What kind of commentary is that on our nation - that the choice of leader of the "free world" of that day might have been the result of something so trivial as how well one of the candidates shaved?

I'll never forget that election. I stayed up late listening to election returns on the radio, and decided to work on my transmitter. I accidentally got across 1000 volts hand-to-hand and couldn't let go, and everyone else in the house was asleep. The only thing that saved me was the microphone connector that came apart when I happened to jerk back.

ai4ep
10-30-2004, 07:28 PM
Dont worry...I will still talk the losers.

Every time I go vote, no matter who I vote for, or what office they are running for... they win.

KB1GYQ
10-30-2004, 07:45 PM
Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 30 2004,13:04)]I agree... time for a gentleman's agreement between gentlemen, like there was pre-2000.
You can't have a gentlemen's agreement without having gentlemen.

W5HTW
10-30-2004, 08:41 PM
And I firmly believe the only national election we have, the Presidential one, should be taken out of the hands of the individual states, and 'standardized' by the federal government. Then the states can do what they want with the rest of it, 50 different ways. But votes for President would be cast in exactly the same way, with the same process, in every state, and perhaps on a selected time standard as well, perhaps Pacific time, so the voting process closed across the nation at the same time. Sure it requires an amendment, but we have had amendments before, and this would remove the disparity found between states as well as local communities. It could even be conducted by tone telephone, by registering in advance. Then, at the right time, you pick up your phone, dial a certain number with a special prefix similar to an 800 or 888, but more likely a 950 or something, and push "1" for this guy/gal, "2" for that guy/gal "3" for the third, etc. Then your number is registered and cannot be used again. You would, of course, have to punch in an ID number as well, for example your SS number combined with your DOB or something else.

After that, you go to the polls and vote for your state representatives and local candidates.

Ed


Then the

N7AAO
10-30-2004, 09:26 PM
Quote[/b] (KB1GYQ @ Oct. 30 2004,12:45)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Oct. 30 2004,13:04)]I agree... time for a gentleman's agreement between gentlemen, like there was pre-2000.
You can't have a gentlemen's agreement without having gentlemen.
Actually, I think Kerry is a gentleman... I don't need to make a demon out of someone in order to disagree with them.