View Full Version : BPL Report and Order is Published
Since when did the FCC EVER indicate they were interested in what Amateur Radio ops thought or knew on the subject? Never! Even with all the evidence, demos, etc., they could care less!
Personally, if BPL ends up running across my backyard power lines, I will do whatever I can to disable it, RFI it, etc.
I don't have much respect for the FCC after their demonstration that they could care less about the long term effects of crap being spewed all over the neighborhood(s).
K0RGR
10-29-2004, 02:47 PM
The comments in the final R+O really do not look good for us, though it certainly could have been much, much worse. It's time to formulate a response.
BPL will need to be stopped on the local level. Radio Clubs need to get acquainted with their local power companies now, and determine their plans for BPL. Not all BPL systems are equally bad. You can work with your power comany to find systems that are not as harmful to ham radio, or you can work to stop them from deploying it altogether. Find some technically competent folks in your club, who will volunteer to help your utility test potential BPL vendor equipment to find the best solution for your community. The power company doesn't have any easy way of testing to see if ham transmissions kill the network on their own!
Also, before you get panicky, look at what we still have. 160 meters is not affected. Some of the systems being tested don't cause much interference on the higher HF bands, though it's hard to say what will happen when they try to expand the bandwidths to the ridiculous numbers they're promising their investors. Without huge subsidies, this stuff will never leave the cities, so those without nearby neighbors are probably safe.
WA5KRP
10-29-2004, 04:46 PM
It's bad technology with more hair on it than a monkey. Several trial systems have been shut down rather than expanded. Major markets already have cable and DSL without the inherent liabilities of BPL. SBC and Verizon are ready to deploy fiber to home networks. Investors in BPL will lose their shirt.
Our job is to stay active on HF.
WA5KRP
Texas
ad4mg
10-29-2004, 08:48 PM
I just downloaded and printed the 85 page R&O. #I intend to read every word very carefully in a serious attempt to understand all the legal mumbo-jumbo.
In a quick pass through the first 20 pages or so, it is obvious that amateur radio has been designated a very unimportant, almost secondary use of HF frequencies, useful only in rare instances when the commercial communications infrastructure is disabled (which is every time we experience serious weather ... just ask the folks in Florida).
I stated this elsewhere ... BPL is a Part 15 radiator ... and they must not interfere with licensed services, and must accept interference from licensed services. #This will ultimately be the litmus test in the court system.
Anyone know what Michael Powell's qualifications were for this position that King George appointed him to, other than who his "daddy" is? #No doubt that he has an extensive background in communications, right?
73,
Luke
It was not King George of Bush, It was King William of Clinton
73
George (not a king)
K3UD
K7JBQ
10-29-2004, 09:37 PM
Direct from the FCC:
"Michael K. Powell is Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. Chairman Powell was nominated by President William J. Clinton to a Republican seat on the Commission, and was sworn in on November 3, 1997. He was designated chairman by President George W. Bush on January 22, 2001."
This was a bi-partisan blunder.
73,
Bill
k4kyv
10-29-2004, 09:58 PM
Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Oct. 29 2004,07:47)]before you get panicky, look at what we still have. 160 meters is not affected.
The affected frequencies go down to 1.7 mHz according to the report. Or did I miss something?
n9zxk
10-29-2004, 10:50 PM
Its kind of funny how they acted on this first before the code/nocode. It does show thatwe as hams are far from the top of there list. I think its all about money. Been saying for a long time bpl not code/nocode is our fight. Hate to say it "but i told you so"
ai4ep
10-29-2004, 11:47 PM
folks did not lsiten to ya, did they ?
n9zxk
10-30-2004, 12:10 AM
ep
Let me ask you something. I know your for code. You yourself have to pick one or the other. No code or bpl ? What would it be. Bpl from what i have beed told and seen here on qrz is not to good for us hams. I know what one i would take. In fact what would any of the people here pick. Maybe i should do a poll on it...
ad4mg
10-30-2004, 02:30 AM
Quote[/b] (K7JBQ @ Oct. 29 2004,17:37)]Direct from the FCC:
"Michael K. Powell is Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. Chairman Powell was nominated by President William J. Clinton to a Republican seat on the Commission, and was sworn in on November 3, 1997. He was designated chairman by President George W. Bush on January 22, 2001."
This was a bi-partisan blunder.
73,
Bill
Yes ... I have re-learned a valuable lesson, and after a trivial amount of research, I understand that I should have referenced Mr. Clinton in this appointment as well.
A clear cut case of "open mouth, insert foot". #I'm glad my feet were clean!
But I have read the entire R&O now, and there is disturbing verbage in it for amateurs. #We haven't yet been thrown out in the cold, but a wrong move on our part could bring disasterous consequences. #This is not a good time to repeat my previous guffaw ... we should proceed with utmost caution when addressing this issue. #Frivilous complaints of interference from BPL will certainly cost the individual, and will do irrepairable damage to our credibility. #This is a "must read" for all interested amateurs.
The sky hasn't fallen just yet, but its in the forecast!
73 & thanks for the polite correction,
Luke
KC2ESD
10-30-2004, 07:54 AM
BPL will not get far, DSL, Fiber Optics, and Cable are the way to go for high speed internet. I have dial up now but going to upgrade soon (before Xmas) to Cable. The power outlet is good for one thing only, suppling power, not communications. I'v used FM intercoms that worked over the homes 110Vac outlets from Radio Shack in the 80s. I learned if the intercoms were on the same circut ( I have 7 circuts off the fuse box) it worked ok, but of they were on Differant circuts the intercoms were so noisy that it was very hard to hear. BPL will be effected but Thunderstorms and RF radiation from CB, Maritime, SW broadcast, and Ham transmissions. Cable is so much better who would go for BPL? BPL is a flash in the pan and will fall away to better technologies.
73 de Rick KC2ESD
KG4CGC
10-30-2004, 08:53 AM
While the above statement may be true, THEY, sure are in a BIG hurry to BPL'us from all sides.
w0tdh
10-30-2004, 09:04 AM
As mentioned before, many times, this is a complete Sell Out of the Ham Community.
#
It would seem that Mr. Powell, NOT an Amateur, tends to lump us in with the CB crowd. Makes it easier for him, not #knowing the difference. Much of the verbage is not his either. WHO did write it? WHO advised him on this?
I hope there is not a "Homeland Security " angle here. I have not read the entire report.
If so, then litigation is in order to through the whole thing out.
A law suit against the FCC is not my first choice, but I will contribute to the Fund if it comes to that.
Tom - KØPJG
Life Member ARRL
BPL may not be a splash in the pan. #I spoke with Edison International, the mega electric provider. #They recently told their staff that all electric meter reading would be done over the power lines in about two years. #The human meter reading positions would be eliminated, reducing their payroll costs substantially. #They think BPL is a good idea, even if they don't run the internet on it. #Of course, the internet would be the frosting on the cake. #What if they contract with the Gas Company to read their meters also? #Every electric meter would have an RF generator in it that would be continually talking to the main computer at Edison, which would analyze loads in regions with respect to time and days of the week. #There are some narrow band power line fed electric meter reading devices that have been operating prior to BPL. #No one voiced complaints about those devices, so more must be better.
73,
Terry. K7FE
Maybe the ultimate resulotion will be that the FCC will designate us as an unlicensed service
and wash their hands of it. As an unlicensed service, there would be no way to fight it.
73
George
K3UD
k4kyv
10-30-2004, 07:47 PM
Quote[/b] (K7FE @ Oct. 30 2004,07:53)]I spoke with Edison International, the mega electric provider. They recently told their staff that all electric meter reading would be done over the power lines in about two years. The human meter reading positions would be eliminated, reducing their payroll costs substantially.
Remember the "blue boxes" that used to be able to make long-distance phone connections without toll charges, by inserting certain tones into the line?
Wait till someone figures out how to build a "brown box" to hack the system and send a modified data stream down the power lines to override electric power usage information so that customers can get electricity for free.
KB1GYQ
10-30-2004, 07:51 PM
Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ Oct. 30 2004,15:47)]Quote[/b] (K7FE @ Oct. 30 2004,07:53)]I spoke with Edison International, the mega electric provider. They recently told their staff that all electric meter reading would be done over the power lines in about two years. The human meter reading positions would be eliminated, reducing their payroll costs substantially.
Remember the "blue boxes" that used to be able to make long-distance phone connections without toll charges, by inserting certain tones into the line?
Wait till someone figures out how to build a "brown box" to hack the system and send a modified data stream down the power lines to override electric power usage information so that customers can get electricity for free.
You might also be able to shut down the entire system with one false "overload" indication.... fully automatic control in an accessible distributed system is downright dangerous.... I guess we'll all get to watch.....
Remember when this was the hot topic?
All of a sudden, stupid Al Gore's "Information Superhighway" looks a lot better than George Bush and his moronic speech that promoted BPL.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either power-mad idiot.
w8znx
01-27-2005, 11:01 PM
Hello
this is not the first time
for so called end of ham radio
back end of ww 1 US Navy
did not want hams alowed back on the air
late 40's tvi was going to kill ham radio
BPL out of date before they started testing it
fiber optic is coming
BPL comes to my town
lets see
pair of four by ones
driven by a SB 200
head room, yes that's it, head room !
yours truly
Mac