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wm4t
09-20-2004, 01:42 PM
Hello. #My name is Andy Masters, NU5O, and I serve as the Tennessee Director
for SERA. #I have been a ham since 1966, helped put the first repeater on in
Jackson, TN back in the 1970's and at one time was the driving force behind
the VOLNET-a group of 10 repeaters linked full time over a wide area.
Currently, I maintain 3 UHF repeaters in Memphis, including one that has 4
voting receivers. #I also assist small groups in planning, tuning, and
installing their new repeaters.

I have been asked by a great number of TN repeater owners to comment on the
mandatory tone policy that SERA has implemented and I have chosen to do so
through Sam, WM4T. #I don't always agree with Sam's view on things but I
always know where I stand with him and I hear his views directly-not from
some other direction. #For that reason, I respect him and appreciate him.

The short version is that I am against a mandatory tone policy for two
meters and I will not support it or enforce it except when the repeaters are
short spaced and/or a clear operational advantage is gained by using tone.
An example of that would be a new repeater in a mountainous area. #Users
often hear other co-channel repeaters well over a hundred miles away but the
signal is so weak it just breaks the squelch. By using tone, the group(s)
have an opportunity to use CTCSS and get rid of the annoyance. It's not
interference per se-but it is an annoyance. #Several of you in East TN have
written to me since this issue came up and have stated that is why you like
tone.

Having said that, I want also to state clearly that the discussions that
brought about this decision at the June SERA board meeting were based
entirely on user complaints and a desire to help get more repeaters on the
air. #There was NEVER an attitude of "let's shove it down their throats" at
the meeting. In fact just the opposite was the case. #Since 9/11 there has
been a great demand on the spectrum (especially 2 meters) for new repeaters.
Most of those requests are coming from rural areas where hams want to
install an emergency powered repeater to be able to respond to a crisis in
their area. #Is that a bad thing?

It is obvious that SERA did not handle the announcement of the decision well
nor did it handle the outcry of repeater owners properly. I and others did
try to reverse the decision but as of this writing it has not changed. While
a few of our board members seemingly do not care whether members comment or
not others do in fact care. #You will have decide where your own directors
stand and act accordingly.

Interestingly, SERA already requires the use of tone on 10 meter and UHF
repeaters (CP&G Policy 14G...). To my knowledge not a single ham has ever
complained about this policy. #It seems the real issue is that the
coordinating body made a decision that significantly affects the membership
without first asking for input from the membership and that is the key
issue. Some of the directors are ok with that but I am not. I do apologize
to the repeater owners of Tennessee for our decision to make this policy
mandatory without seeking input first. #I did suggest to the board as a
result that SERA change its by-laws to require two meetings to change a
policy that seriously affects repeater owners in order to allow a comment
period but it was voted down.

It would seem there are at least three options left to repeater owners and
users:

1. Do not renew your membership in SERA until the policy changes. #
2. Renew your membership in SERA, read carefully the by-laws section of SERA
on the website and pursue the election of individuals that will represent
your views. #Bear in mind that several states have had almost no complaints
about this new policy in the SERA group.
3. Renew your membership and maintain the status quo.

Personally, I choose to remain a member of SERA and to continue to try and
persuade the organization to be more responsive to its members feelings. #It
still remains the best coordinating body in the USA. #All of the member
states that surround Tennessee take each new coordination seriously-using
our new ComSoft software to determine the actual coverage of a repeater and
whether or not it will work. #We have successfully placed a number of
repeaters on the air with minimal issues as a result. #We have denied far
more as a result of the software because we could prove in advance that
serious issues would arise as a result of the coordination.

We are not perfect. #Many of our detractors however would soon find
themselves unhappy in any coordinating body. #Unbelievably, some of these
people think that they can own a repeater frequency for eternity and it will
always be their's even if it has been off the air for several years. #Others
will move their repeater many miles and just plop it down wherever they want
thinking that location has nothing to do with coordination. # While those
groups are highly verbal in situations like this and do a lot to muddy the
water-I believe most repeater owners would soon find them to be unwelcome
guests in any coordinating body.

I did propose changes to the CP&G in the June meeting that were also
approved that will allow us to go after paper, dormant, and un-coordinated
repeaters. #These repeaters are keeping good ham operators from putting
repeaters on the air in their area and they know it. #If you are aware of a
repeater in this category in Tennessee, I want to know about it.

Below is an excerpt from the letter that will go out to all TN repeater
owners this fall from SERA. #The data sheets are critical to the
coordination process. #PLEASE PARTICIPATE! #You don't have to join SERA to
send in your data sheet but please send in the data sheet so we can have an
accurate census of repeaters.

Again, I do sincerely apologize to the amateurs of Tennessee for the
implementation of the tone policy without first seeking input and gaining a
better perspective on the issue.


Sincerely,


Andy Masters NU5O
TN Director SERA

SERA DATA SHEET LETTER FALL 2004:

Greetings fellow Tennessee repeater owners from your SERA State Director. #A
lot has happened this year in the State of Tennessee with repeaters and with
SERA. #

Let me introduce you to the SERA coordinators for the state. #First, in East
Tennessee, is David Fridley, KG4FZR, as a new Coordinator and Assistant
Director. #David owns a tower company and is well versed in communications
and ham radio. #Next, in Middle Tennessee, is Jerome Buie, KB4POA, who also
serves as Coordinator and our Vice Director for the state. #Jerome is in
traffic control communications and has a truck that looks like Fibber
McGee's closet (it's full of stuff). # Last, in West Tennessee, is Alan
McClain, KA4BNI, who works in communications for the state and serves as a
new Coordinator and Assistant Director. #Tim Berry, WB4GBI, resigned from
his post as State Director in January due to extreme business obligations.
He is one of those guys who works 80 hours a week. #I agreed to be State
Director only if he would remain as an Assistant Director-which he has
agreed to do. #Tim now serves as a Technical Assistant Director and we are
very fortunate to benefit from his experience. #You may review the
biographies of each of these fine gentlemen at: www.sera.org

The events of 9/11 have put a great pressure on our state and those
surrounding us in terms of demand for new repeaters. # This demand has
driven several decisions by SERA to help alleviate some of the pressure.
Some of the decisions are welcomed and some are not. #First, at the June
board meeting this year, I made several proposals to change the CP&G of SERA
to make it easier to de-coordinate repeaters. There are a significant number
of "paper" repeaters in Tennessee. #We have people who actually think a
repeater can be off the air for 20 years and somehow they have a right to
that frequency. #Some people think they can move a repeater 20 miles or more
from its current location without re-coordinating it first. #For those of
you sitting on paper repeaters and uncoordinated repeaters-we are coming
after you. #Every month I receive requests from rural groups in Tennessee
wanting a repeater frequency. # Currently, there are no 2 meter pairs
available in state. These groups are angry because they know of paper,
dormant, or uncoordinated repeaters in their areas that are keeping them
from a legitimate frequency pair.
As State Director, I believe it is my responsibility to serve the person
seeking a new repeater for his area and not the guy who refuses to
participate in the coordination process, never put the repeater on the air,
or failed to maintain his repeater and never put it back on the air. #This
is a no brainer. #I am going to help the new group every time. #It is a fair
and consistent policy and it better serves the needs of our amateur
community.

Tones. #At the June Board Meeting, SERA adopted a new mandatory tone policy.
I don't like it and I will not enforce it. #The policy was adopted in an
effort to address complaints from several users over interference issues.
It was NOT an attempt to shove anything down the member's throat. #However,
it was poorly handled, done without consulting the membership for comments,
and generally will cause hardship and expense to a lot of repeater owners.
I do agree that short spaced repeaters and certain other co-channel
repeaters should be required to have tone-but not all repeaters. #I will
continue to insist we use tones under the previous guidelines set forth in
the CP&G. #

I am not happy about the way the board has chosen to respond to the issue of
soliciting input from the users and making decisions that significantly
affect our members. #I have voiced those complaints to the board as many of
you have. #I encourage you to continue to voice your thoughts. #SERA does
not have a right to autocratically do things to the amateur community
without input from the same. #It is supposed to be our organization and when
you agree or disagree with policies-you should let somebody know. #Many of
you have told me that you will not be joining SERA again until this way of
doing business changes. #I can't blame you and I understand your feelings.

Regardless of whether you choose to join SERA or renew your membership, I do
ask that each repeater owner fill in the data sheets and return them. #Good
data is the only way we can do a proper job of coordinating. #If you have
any changes you need to make on the data sheets and you have questions-do
not hesitate to write me at: nu5o@sera.org

If you know of repeaters off the air, paper repeaters, uncoordinated
repeaters, please write me with the details. #Recovering these frequencies
means some rural group will be able to put their repeater on the air. #It is
the right thing to do. #If you have a repeater that is no longer on the
air-talk to me. #I will work with you if you need some time to get it on the
air but I also encourage you to consider turning it back in to the pool and
saving us a lot of trouble de-coordinating your repeater.

A word about service. #All of our coordinators are good people. They are
also busy people. #They do this work voluntarily. They are not paid a penny
for their time. #However, if you are not getting timely service, I want to
know about it. #I promise you, I will address your issues regardless of
whether you are a member of SERA or not. #

73 de Andy Masters NU5O
TN Director SERA

KE4MOB
09-20-2004, 04:22 PM
"Tones. #At the June Board Meeting, SERA adopted a new mandatory tone policy. #I don't like it and I will not enforce it."

That speaks volumes coming from a Director.

KE4MOB
09-20-2004, 04:50 PM
Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.

K0RGR
09-20-2004, 05:17 PM
The real problem is too many dead repeaters. The use of tones discourages travelling hams from using 2 meters. So, fewer people monitor their local repeaters, resulting in less activity, which leads to dead repeaters. I've sure enjoyed 2 meter QSO's while wandering through the hills in Tennessee and would hate to lose that privelege.

For some reason, we seem to think we need more repeaters. So coordination groups place repeaters only 75 miles apart in flat country. Every time there is slight tropo enhancement, mobiles in one town key up the repeater in the town 75 miles away. Then there is screaming and crying and gnashing of teeth and a call goes out to turn on the tones, which results in dead repeaters.

Verily, I have witnessed the above many, many times. It is reality. Tones are great, and if the radio makers start building them so that it is easy for mobiles to find the right tones to use, that will be wonderful, but right now, it is a pain. When I plan a long trip, I spend hours programming my rigs - I'd rather spend my time doing other things.

What is really needed is a coordination group to decommission dead repeaters. Any repeater that is on the air less than 1 hour a week, not including automatic voice announcements and ID's, should be shut down regardless of the horrific damage it might do to someone's ego, UNLESS it is the primary or backup repeater providing service to an area. Two dead repeaters max per area.
Coordinators should strive to ensure that rural areas are covered as well as urban zones.

W1CAR
09-20-2004, 05:20 PM
busted! nice one!

W4KMU
09-20-2004, 05:28 PM
In your article you stated you were " going after uncoordinated repeaters". Well I may be wrong, but as long as a repeater is not interfering with another it doesn't have to be coordinated. And unless the FCC says tones are to be enforced, I will not comply with SERA's request to put one on my repeater.

WA4RYW
09-20-2004, 05:36 PM
Quote[/b] (wm4t @ Sep. 20 2004,09:42)]Interestingly, SERA already requires the use of tone on 10 meter and UHF repeaters (CP&G Policy 14G...). To my knowledge not a single ham has ever complained about this policy.

2. Renew your membership in SERA, read carefully the by-laws section of SERA on the website and pursue the election of individuals that will represent your views. #Bear in mind that several states have had almost no complaints about this new policy in the SERA group.
First paragraph, interesting fact.

Second paragraph, is Andy suggesting that the majority of the complaints are coming out of Tennessee? Why? What is exceptional here? Are the complaints statewide, or regional? It would be interesting to know the demographics involved. I am genuinely interested why this is not an issue anywhere else, with exception to this one area. Yeah, I know the WAY it was implemented was not the most politically expedient, but it was inevitable, none the less.

Inquiring minds want to know

WD8OQX
09-20-2004, 06:45 PM
A coordination group is NOT an authority on anything and is never going to be, as far as I'm concerned. The FCC is the one & only! The coordinator is only there to HELP the repeater owner resolve the issue as to what freq. to use. They are supposed to be a voluntary group that keeps track of such things. When these groups starts mandating anything they have crossed the line.

It should be first & foremost the responsibility of the one whose call is on the repeater to maintain it & see over how it is run. If the repeater trusties of that repeater think it should or shouldn't be toned, thats there business. But it should always be up to them. NOT some other group that may not even have a clue as to what is going on at that location.

Enough said http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

na4it
09-20-2004, 07:06 PM
AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN= An automatic scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

Sure not all radios have that on them...BUT

MAUNAL TONE SCAN= A manual scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

It is so simple even I can do it...

(1) Tune VFO to repeater output frequency,
(2) Place radio in TONE SET mode,
(3) When repeater transmits, scroll up or down through the tone frequency selection until audio is heard.
(4) SET TONE,
(5) SET OFFEST,
(6) Communicate.

By the way, not all repeaters transmit tone. For some controllers, it has to be enabled. So the only tone you can possibly get is the one transmitted by a users radio. Regardless, the repeater HAS TO BE TRANSMITTING for either MANUAL or AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN to work.

Like I said, simple enough for even me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

09-20-2004, 07:27 PM
Hi Folks: The PL tone was going to happen sooner or latter. Like it or not.
Here in the northeast. Repeater owner's on 6-2&1.25 Meters are now finding they have to have a pl tone. Not Because of the freq Coordinator. Because of Interferance.:angry It stinks. But sometimes that is the only way to stop most of the noise. Tones really help when you have two 2-meter Machines in the same state
With the same input/output Line of SIGHT To each other.

73
K1JWM
New Hampshire:)

K0RGR
09-20-2004, 08:18 PM
Quote[/b] (na4it @ Sep. 20 2004,12:06)]AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN= An automatic scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

Sure not all radios have that on them...BUT

MAUNAL TONE SCAN= A manual scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

It is so simple even I can do it...

(1) Tune VFO to repeater output frequency,
(2) Place radio in TONE SET mode,
(3) When repeater transmits, scroll up or down through the tone frequency selection until audio is heard.
(4) SET TONE,
(5) SET OFFEST,
(6) Communicate.

By the way, not all repeaters transmit tone. For some controllers, it has to be enabled. So the only tone you can possibly get is the one transmitted by a users radio. Regardless, the repeater HAS TO BE TRANSMITTING for either MANUAL or AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN to work.

Like I said, simple enough for even me. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Unfortunately, on most mobiles, that's fairly difficult, even dangerous, to do while in motion. And, as you point out, if the repeater doesn't transmit first, you have to set up the radio in advance.

As I said in my first post, my radio has 200 memory channels, which I can divide into banks. When I travel, I program the banks of channels to contain the frequencies for repeaters near the highways I'll be using in the states I'll pass through, including PL tones. I am also careful to program in common frequencies, like 146.52, to each bank. Then, as I pass through each state, I scan those frequencies.

This works very well. I can usually find a QSO. But it takes hours to do it, even with lots of computer assistance. If I program both the HT and my mobile rig, it's a two-night affair.

ARRL's computerized repeater directory has a feature that works with a laptop computer, a GPS, and certain radios to automatically load the nearby repeater frequencies into the memory of your radio for you. That may be the ultimate solution, but it seems rather costly for the average ham.

Since APRS gateways are being used to broadcast some local information these days, it has been proposed to use that technology to run a 'blackbox' attachment to 2 meter radios that would program in the local repeaters as you pass through the area.

I'm not necessarily opposed to tones, but I'd like to see us get a really good way of coping with them in place before they become mandatory everywhere, and I do think that many repeaters should be scrapped.

K3BM
09-20-2004, 09:53 PM
We have had the mandatory PL rule here for our repeaters, some have complied and some have not, but here is my take on past practices of the FCC.

Uncoordinated repeaters must cease operation if causing problems with a coordinated repeater.

If a repeater coordinator mandates PL and the repeater owner doesnt comply, the coordinator can choose to revoke the coordination.

Then a new machine can come on that frequency with coordinaton and the old ( now uncoordinated) one has to cease operations in accordance with FCC rules.

Is this right ? No.

Is it possible , Yep.

If you dont like the policies, get them changed or beat them before they become policies. Or you could be off
the air.

kj5t
09-20-2004, 10:44 PM
Most repeaters here have PL Tones, with the exception of just a few. I think tones are a good thing to keep out interference, but still can be a hassel. The main machine that I use here transmits its tone when it ID's.

As far as travelling, my HT only olds 40 channels, so its no big deal to me..

Also about the dead repeaters, well a lot of them are dead and still monitored, that was pointed out to me when a trustee here explained that he likes he repeater dead, and that he is not a ragchewer, yada, yada, yada..

"Ham It Up, and forget the politics"

n4fv
09-21-2004, 02:14 AM
Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Sep. 20 2004,09:50)]Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.
I believe Andy was not there for that vote, as Tim Berry said in his post in the other discussion on page 30.

"Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* NO also."

Link (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=69931;st=290)


I believe the proper question to ask is how many people voted for it, how many abstained from voting, and if someone did abstain, does that make it unanimous?

KA4BNI
09-21-2004, 02:34 AM
Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Sep. 20 2004,03:50)]Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.
Andy's letter was posted by Sam WM4T, because Andy was unable to post the letter to QRZ.com. I would like to respond to the question concerning Andy's presence at the June meeting. Andy was at the June meeting on saturday, but left early sunday morning to return to Memphis for work. Andy was not present during the sunday morning disscussion or the vote of the tone issue.

Alan McClain - KA4BNI
TN Asst. Director SERA
West TN freq. coordinator

wd5kca
09-21-2004, 02:57 AM
Where are uey and sth on this important issue?

KE4MOB
09-21-2004, 03:22 AM
Quote[/b] (KA4BNI @ Sep. 20 2004,19:34)]Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Sep. 20 2004,03:50)]Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.
Andy's letter was posted by Sam WM4T, because Andy was unable to post the letter to QRZ.com. I would like to respond to the question concerning Andy's presence at the June meeting. Andy was at the June meeting on saturday, but left early sunday morning to return to Memphis for work. Andy was not present during the sunday morning disscussion or the vote of the tone issue.

Alan McClain - KA4BNI
TN Asst. Director SERA
West TN freq. coordinator
Fair enough. #Thanks for the explanation.

kb5kjn
09-21-2004, 04:19 AM
It seems pretty simple to me. Form a new coordination body for your area. Then do what your group feels best.

kc8kxi
09-21-2004, 10:22 AM
Quote[/b] (n4fv @ Sep. 20 2004,19:14)]Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Sep. 20 2004,09:50)]Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.
I believe Andy was not there for that vote, as Tim Berry said in his post in the other discussion on page 30.

"Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* #NO also."

Link (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=69931;st=290)


I believe the proper question to ask is how many people voted for it, how many abstained from voting, and if someone did abstain, does that make it unanimous?
Quote[/b] ]I believe Andy was not there for that vote, as Tim Berry said in his post in the other discussion on page 30.

"Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* NO also."

Link (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=69931;st=290)


I believe the proper question to ask is how many people voted for it, how many abstained from voting, and if someone did abstain, does that make it unanimous?

Quoted from the SERA minutes from the web site. Is there more than one Andy? Maybe I'm reading this wrong?

Dick Fowler remarked that a notice should be inserted in the forthcoming datasheet mailing that contains the Policy 17 revision and a notice of our new official position on CTCSS/DCS use adding that any interference complaint, that involves a situation where CTCSS or DCS is not in use, will not be considered for review by the SERA. Alex noted that the Policy 17 insert was a matter included in the motion made by Andy. There was a general consensus by the staff present that the additional information concerning CTCSS/DCS should be included in the mailing.

k8nqc
09-21-2004, 12:30 PM
The answer is simple. As soon as the FCC gave local/regional groups legal precidence for primary use of amateur frequencies if they were coordinated, it was only going to be a while until addition of "private line" gave some ownership of frequencies. Those of us near state lines lost many frequencies to operations in other states. Mandatory tones is finally over the line. It is time for an FCC ruling that removes any greater rights for toned repeaters over any other amateur with rights to the frequency. Some repeaters may neeed tones and they should be permitted to operate. However, not at the expense of other users of the frequency.

KE4MOB
09-21-2004, 12:59 PM
Quote[/b] (kc8kxi @ Sep. 21 2004,03:22)]Quote[/b] (n4fv @ Sep. 20 2004,19:14)]Quote[/b] (KE4MOB @ Sep. 20 2004,09:50)]Hey, wait a minute....something's not Kosher here.

Andy, I just re-read the minutes. #You were there. #The motion passed unanimously. #So I assume you voted for it. #Now you're dead set against it??? #If you changed your mind, great. #But why did you vote for it in the first place?

I'm seeing a lot of "I argued against it" or "I didn't agree with it at first" but it passed unanimously.
I believe Andy was not there for that vote, as Tim Berry said in his post in the other discussion on page 30.

"Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* #NO also."

Link (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=69931;st=290)


I believe the proper question to ask is how many people voted for it, how many abstained from voting, and if someone did abstain, does that make it unanimous?
Quote[/b] ]I believe Andy was not there for that vote, as Tim Berry said in his post in the other discussion on page 30.

"Had the TN director been there, I believe he would have *voted* #NO also."

Link (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=69931;st=290)


I believe the proper question to ask is how many people voted for it, how many abstained from voting, and if someone did abstain, does that make it unanimous?

Quoted from the SERA minutes from the web site. #Is there more than one Andy? #Maybe I'm reading this wrong?

Dick Fowler remarked that a notice should be inserted in the forthcoming datasheet mailing that contains the Policy 17 revision and a notice of our new official position on CTCSS/DCS use adding that any interference complaint, that involves a situation where CTCSS or DCS is not in use, will not be considered for review by the SERA. #Alex noted that the Policy 17 insert was a matter included in the motion made by Andy. #There was a general consensus by the staff present that the additional information concerning CTCSS/DCS should be included in the mailing.
Look closely...Andy made the motion and it was approved on Saturday. The quote you gave occurred Sunday and was in reference to the motion passed on Saturday.

K4JF
09-21-2004, 01:53 PM
Quote[/b] (na4it @ Sep. 20 2004,12:06)]AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN= An automatic scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

Sure not all radios have that on them...BUT

MAUNAL TONE SCAN= A manual scan of CTCSS or DCS tone frequencies by pushing one or a combination of buttons.

It is so simple even I can do it...

(1) Tune VFO to repeater output frequency,
(2) Place radio in TONE SET mode,
(3) When repeater transmits, scroll up or down through the tone frequency selection until audio is heard.
(4) SET TONE,
(5) SET OFFEST,
(6) Communicate.

By the way, not all repeaters transmit tone. For some controllers, it has to be enabled. So the only tone you can possibly get is the one transmitted by a users radio. Regardless, the repeater HAS TO BE TRANSMITTING for either MANUAL or AUTOMATIC TONE SCAN to work.

Like I said, simple enough for even me. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
You are making two bad assumptions.
1. #You are assuming the radio has tone capability. #(AND you are assuming it has tone-decode ability. The second is optional even in many brand new rigs.) Many do not. #And if it is over 5 or 6 years old, the manufacturer probably does not offer the optional board any more. #(Yes, there are aftermarket encoders, but they are even more difficult to use, and the reasonably priced ones are either single tone or set by dip switches... an impossibility while mobile.)
2. #You are assuming that, if it does have tones, it works like yours. #Since there are so many different brands and models, you should assume MOST do not.

Tones can help with certain problems. #That is a given. #But they do add difficulty to operation, and keep some people off the repeater, so there should be a problem to justify the usage. #Mandatory for all repeaters is ridiculous.

BTW: there is even less justification for UHF repeaters, as the "band openings" are fewer. #I'm glad the UHF repeaters I use are toneless.