Motorola Restricts Sale of Used Equipment

[w6em]

Twice each year, there's been a 'free' flea market at the Motorola Sunrise, FL facility parking lot, sponsored by the Motorola Amateur Radio Club.

The next one is scheduled for Saturday, October 9, 2004, Starting at 7:00 AM.

Apparently, Motorola wishes to restrain or restrict the sale or rebuilding of used /\/\ products, as the following was posted by the /\/\ Amateur Radio Club on the hamfest website:


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NOTE: *NO* Motorola Public Safety Communication capable products may be sold at the Free Flea. In addition, any Member of the Motorola Amateur Radio Club and/or any Security Officer at Motorola can specify that certain items are to be removed from display and/or sale at the free flea. The discretion of the staff and security are final.


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Location: North-east "L" parking lot of the Motorola #parking lot, Sunrise Blvd, Sunrise, (nest to Ft. Lauderdale) FL.

I have learned the real reason for the policy since posting this in queue.

Apparently, at last year's free flea, a police impersonator was arrested, complete with Motorola HT programmed to the Plantation FL police department. #Well, the cops went to /\/\ management and asked why/how such a person could obtain a radio at the flea market. #The result: #A cancellation of future events. #But, through the hard work of the amateur club, they managed to get #/\/\ site management to allow the flea markets, but so long as no /\/\ equipment was sold.

I've personally got a boatload of reasons why this isn't the right way to deal with such an incident, but that was # # #/\/\'s decision, and it is their parking lot that is donated for use at no cost. # #

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL (220 miles away, and, I'll never go again!!!!)

[W7DJM]

I have no use for some of Motorola's policies, but before you post something like this, maybe you'd better find out WHO came up with it, and if, in fact, it actually IS the company policy.

[K3UD]

Wow!

Is it possible that you really do not purchase Motorola equipment but just buy a restricted user license?

What a concept!

73
George
K3UD

[W7DJM]

WHERE IS THE LINK TO THE WEBSITE?

YES I AM YELLING BUT I AM ALSO POSTING THIS WITH MODEL 15

RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRRYRYRYRYR YRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYR

[N7XCF]

Sent an email and got this clarification.
"Can the radio transmit on the police, fire, EMT, frequencies? If it can, then it can not be sold at the free flea.

Richard"

Eric N7XCF http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N7XCF]

PS here's the link.
http://www.geocities.com/bcepn/freeflea.html

Eric N7XCF

[WD8OQX]

Quote[/b] (N7XCF @ Sep. 20 2004,11:38)]Sent an email and got this clarification.
"Can the radio transmit on the police, fire, EMT, frequencies? If it can, then it can not be sold at the free flea.

Richard"

Eric N7XCF #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
If this is there reasoning, then I can see it. (& even go along with it - to a point) Those that have a legit reason to purchase/use such rigs should be allowed to do so! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W5HTW]

Gosh I really hate to say this, but maybe Motorola is waking up to the fact ham radio is not the same as it once was and we do have quite a few more in the hobby who will illegally use radios. They hurt ham radio for the rest of us who abide by the rules, of course, but that is often the case with bad apples in a bunch. The incidences of illegal transmissions on PS frequencies has risen in recent years, and maybe Motorola feels there is a liability for them in this. After all, in this sue-crazy society, if some ham screws with the PS radios in his area, using a Motorola radio, it may be they feel they could be sued if someone got hurt or killed. Kinda like the gun manufacturers are having to be more careful as well.

It would be interesting to see if this is a company-wide attitude or restricted to certain branches. It may be something local managers decided on their own and if so, it may go away. If it is company wide, it probably sets a new trend. In fact, I would not be awfully surprised to see the Icoms, Kenwoods and Yaesus start to produce totally tamper-proof radios themselves, to avoid any liability for the actions of hams who use the opened up models to screw with PS or aviation, etc.

And that could lead eventually to completely unmodifiable ham radios of all types. For now, though, I think it's pretty clear Motorola (at least in this instance) does not want PS-capable radios in the hands of hams.

Ed

[NV5E]

All the Motorola Amateur Radio Club has to do is move the flea market off of Motorola property. Problem (if it really was one) solved. It sounds like it's an attendee that has a problem with the policy, not the MARC. If you don't agree with the policy, don't go.
Rob

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
IDOITS!!!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif For one of the most trused names in 2-way comunications.
They sure are :rock:: F%$@%D

73
K1JWM
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K4GPS]

Hey if the radio is programmed or crystaled with Public Safety Frequencies I don't have a problem with it either but the way it is coming across is that Motorola does not want their radios in the hands of anyone but public safety.
Let's think about it here, the world does not revolve around Nextel. Does that mean that "AAA Locksmith" or "ABC Towing" on the community repeater now can't buy a Maxtrac or a GM300 for their truck ? Sure these customers are small now but I know plenty of farmers with Conventional 2-way in addition to their Nextel's for supervisors. The same radio that does Business band #and amateur radio also does public saftey! Sounds like a very misinformed person or as we called them "white shirt".
Rich

[kg4chw]

Wow, us hams sure like to talk. The bottom line is that the free flea is held on PRIVATE PROPERTY owned by Motorola. As such the company has a right to say what can and can not be sold. The Cy Harris W4MAQ Memorial Free Flea is NOT connected with Motorola. The Motorola company allows us to use the space for free. That is why we never charge the vendors or any one who enters. As for those of you who say we should go to another venue; Great idea, go find us a place in Broward County that will give us that much space for free. Let me know when you find it. Good luck!

Now here is the bottom line. This is the policy:

NOTE: *NO* Motorola Public Safety Communication capable products may be sold at the Free Flea. In addition, any Member of the Motorola Amateur Radio Club and/or any Security Officer at Motorola can specify that certain items are to be removed from display and/or sale at the free flea. The discretion of the staff and security are final.

Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't say you can't wear or use a Motorola radio. If you break the rules, you will be asked to remove the item from display and not sell it on Motorola property. It does not say you will be asked to leave.

If anyone thinks that it would be fun to test the limits of the policy, such as selling police uniforms, putting up a large sign board selling public safety radios, or other such acts; the results will be that Motorola will NOT allow the free flea to return. Motorola will not suffer, the hams in South Florida will.

The webpage for the free flea is: www.geocities.com/bcepn/freeflea.html

73

Richard
KG4CHW

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (W7DJM @ Sep. 20 2004,08:30)]I have no use for some of Motorola's policies, but before you post something like this, maybe you'd better find out WHO came up with it, and if, in fact, it actually IS the company policy.
It is the official policy. #Since I posted this, with a great deal of supposition, I found out that the real reason for the policy was a Plantation FL police impersonator who allegedly showed up in a uniform and had a /\/\ HT programmed to operate on their frequencies. #The result: #The Plantation PD asked /\/\ why that the suspect was able to buy such a radio at the flea market.

So, for starters, the reaction by /\/\ was totally inappropriate, IMO. #I seriously doubt that any such pre-programmed HTs were for sale at the Free Flea market. #Also, possession of such radios apparently isn't the issue. #Only the sale or transfer of same at the Free Flea.

The club's website is:

Motorola Amateur Radio Club (http://www.geocities.com/bcepn/freeflea.html)

And, it appears that not only is there fear of Plantation police retaliation, but from /\/\ itself. (If anyone complains, then no flea market at all on their parking lot.)

I attended last year, and bought a Spectra and traded for a duplexer. #All were stopped at the entrance to the parking lot and their names and vehicle license numbers were taken down by /\/\ security. #A bit much, I thought.
Well, last year I had a good time, because I was able to buy and trade for some surplus /\/\ commercial gear. #Apparently, not this year, unless, of course, its Kenwood, Yaesu/Standard, ICOM, or GE/Ericsson!!!

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[K4JF]

Sounds like Plantation PD was quite out of line in their question to Motorola. As a public service organization, they should know better.

We are long overdue for a "Federal" law stating that no manufacturer or distributor of lawful products can be sued for illegal misuse of their product. That would cut down on some of this foolishness in the courts.

[ae7rs]

Looks like MARC uses lots of "freebies" #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information.
Access to this site will be restored within an hour. Please try again later.
http://www.geocities.com/bcepn/freeflea.html

[ag5c]

Personally I own quite a bit of used Moto gear. My main VHF HT is a Systems Saber that I purchased from a local Moto dealer. My mobile is a 110w Spectra A7.

Although I respect the fact that Motorola has the right to restrict what equipment is sold on it's property I really wonder what they hope to accomplish. Any person can go on eBay and purchase a Moto radio, RIB and programming cable. The software can also be obtained rather easily (although illegaly). By limiting the sale of Moto gear at the flea market really does nothing other than give the local PD a false sense of security. Heck, you don't even need to go on eBay... my Systems Saber was purchased from a local Moto dealer who didn't know who I was and never asked for a copy of my license.

Let them do what they want, as long as they don't start trying to restrict the purchase of used Moto gear that is not being sold on their property.

[n3rzi]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
It is a very inconsiderate policy. I am speaking not as a 10+ year ham but as a 10+ year fire fighter, EMT, and former Fire Chief. All of the fire and Ems agencies in my area are volunteer and receive less than 30% of their budgets from tax dollars. As a result, we have to run fundraisers all year round just to make sure that when an emergency arises a fire truck or ambulance will make it to your house. To departments with large budgets, a few radios may be peanuts but to us they can be a crippling expense. E-bay and hamfests have become a new way for us to both afford communications and our other expenses. Not just hams attend hamfests; some are those looking for equipment that they may not be able to obtain elsewhere for security reasons, but please be aware that there are those that cant obtain radios elsewhere for financial reasons. Please dont punish everybody because of a bad apple. We will ALL end up losing in the end.
Thank you and 73,
Bob

[K7FE]

We are at WAR. # # # # # # # # # #I am sure that bad guys would like that public service eqpt also. #This current restriction just goes along with the "times" we are living in. Roll with it and be happy that some people are thinking about your safety.
73,
Terry, K7FE

[wa3fkg]

I wonder if Motorola prohibits the sale of cell phones at the flea market since they could be reprogrammed to steal cell service or impersonate an individual by cloning their phone? Just wondering.

[ag5c]

Quote[/b] ]
We are at WAR. I am sure that bad guys would like that public service eqpt also. This current restriction just goes along with the "times" we are living in. Roll with it and be happy that some people are thinking about your safety.
73,
Terry, K7FE


So let's ban FRS/GMRS radios since the US Army uses them. As long as the FCC says that it is ok for us to purchase and use public safety/business radios on amateur radio bands, then Motorola shouldn't care. There is no way that prohibiting the sale of public safety capapble equipment at a single flea market is going to help anything. I think it is just ignorance on the part of Motorola.

Seriously, the whole "we're in a war" excuse is used all to commonly. Sure, there are some things that needed to be changed such as more thorough searches at airports. But it has to stop somehwere.

[AB0SD]

Motorola does have the right to restrict such sales on their grounds, and their wishes should be respected. But it is kinda like banning tobacco because a kid might ask for it. That is not how it should work.

I understand the policemen's point of view. However, the law does not restrict the sale of "public safety communication equipment", only its improper use. Motorola and anyone who owns or sells that equipment should be watchful. Barring the sale outright is not the right way, though.

[wb5yiw]

Ok, folks. #Time for a bit of reason. #Motorola has the right to say yes or no to the use of it's property, same as you do over your front yard. #I have no problem with that. #What it boils down to is this: #Motorola doesn't want used #equipment being sold on it's property that it doesn't profit from. Everything is about money these days. Any radio that will transmit outside the ham bands is capable of transmitting on public service frequencies somewhere in this country. #There are still a few PD's in this part of the world that operate on "low band" (37.10 mhz, for instance, is very popular here). #Some of this is due to terrain, some of it is economic. There are some vhf and uhf frequencies in use here too, as well as some 800 mhz. stuff.

Someone suggested "unmodifieable" radios. Hogwash. What we need to do is stop trying to protect us from ourselves, and start prosecuting those who break the law. Because someone owns a radio that will transmit at 453.850 does not mean that he has done so, any more than owning an axe makes him an axe murderer. Catch him transmitting on a police or fire frequency for anything other than a legitimate emergency, put him in the pokey. #If police departments don't want the public to listen in, they should digitally encode the signals so that they can not be recieved by unencoded recievers. #The technology exists and is relatively inexpensive (Transcrypt, among others). #I seriously doubt that a GM300 or M1225 represents a serious threat to the security of the world. The cell phone folks do it, the satellite tv people do it, so can the cops. The average joe will not spend the money to obtain a transcript module, and Transcrypt won't sell them to just anybody anyway. To get one encoded for a particular police department, you have to prove that you have authorization to do so. They shouldn't have to do that you say. #Well, I shouldn't have to lock my door at night either, but it's up to me to make sure that my family is safe. That is illegal to enter and remove things that don't belong to you simply is not enough. #An honest person wouldn't do it anyway...the thief doesn't care. That's what makes them criminals....no respect for the law. #You can regulate all you want, and all you'll do is penalize the law abiding citizen. #The criminal will still have the tools of his trade. #Used commercial gear has been used by hams and non hams alike both legally and illegally from the beginning. #The person who respects law and order will use it legally. #The one who doesn't, won't. #The amplifier ban for CB only took amps #out of the hands of hams. #CBers that want them still have them.

As long as there is a law, there will be someone who will break it. Punish real criminals instead of passing more laws that make criminals out of the rest of us.

wb5yiw

[wa6jbd]

I had Motorola pull an auction of mine off of eBay. Only then did I find out about their list of prohibited items. Yes, Motorola prohibits sale of certain selected items on eBay. A bit draconian, in my opinion. I suppose they can do what they want on their property but find it outragous that I can't unload a perfectly good radio. Well, ok... it's an export model. So what?

[ab2ih]

A free flea market----what a concept!
It sounds so un-American, but I wish we had one closer to WNY.
Guess that prizes won't be part of the festivities.

[kb9yiv]

I can see the restriction of ribs and RSS Or CSS at the fest, but used radios is just silly. Protecting or trying to protect their name will only hurt them this time around. They should just make a waiver for the fest. As to the florida officers not understanding how radios work and can be obtained, as a former comm officer for EMA i understand perfectly:)

[W5TXR]

I worked for Motorola for many years and I have aquired a bunch of Motorola stuff. On occasion I sell some of my old items. Motorola has the right to ban the sale of such items on thier property, So find another location.
I have been a Vol. fireman/fire officer since 1978 and my
vehicle radios are Motorola with public safety frequencies as well as some ham frequencies.
Let's not blame Motorola or Chevrolet or Glock because some idiot wants to play cop.
In our state, It is a felony to impersonate a lawman.
So.......lock his @$$ up!!
It isn't motorola's responsibility to restrict the sale it's equipment.
Would you attend a hamfest that restricts the sale of Yaesu or Icom? Last time I checked Kenwoods, Icoms and Yaesu's could be modidfed (quite easily) to open the bandwidth.
Motorola software and RIB's can be found in lot's of places on the internet. umm... #perhaps they should ban antennas too.
I have always said that Motorola should start manufacturing Amateur radio equipment...........I can see it now........."Motorola Amateur Radio Division" #; mayby someday.

[w6em]

The main reason that I posted this has been addressed in several posts.

First, restraining or restricting the sale of used commercial communications equipment is counterproductive to the welfare and interests of the public. #As was cited earlier, in the case of small and volunteer fire departments, paramedic organizations, small businesses, and the like all need to obtain type-accepted equipment in order to comply with FCC regulations. #Eliminating or narrowing where and from whom that they can purchase such equipment could make the difference between affording same and not. #It of course benefits manufacturers to not have a market in used equipment, since it forces would-be buyers to purchase new equipment.

Let's see, "only the right persons" should be able to own commercial equipment. #Really? #Well, for those who believe our rights are being taken away, such attitudes speak loudly that, yes, they are or will be. #We don't need more laws. #And, we certainly don't need police intimidation, such as, IMO, happened at Plantation, FL. #Enforce the laws we have.

We have now, at the FCC, probably the most effective enforcement organization since its inception. #Riley Hollingsworth does an excellent job.

As a reminder for those who don't know about the Secrecy of Communications Act, reception of police information isn't a crime. #Only if you disclose it unless authorized to do so.

Transmission on unauthorized frequencies or without a license is, as it always has been, illegal (except for FRS, CB, and MURS).

It's not in the public interest, and even homeland security interests, to restrict the ownership or transfer of commercial communications equipment that covers commercial and amateur frequencies. # Let me drive home the point with an example from Hurricane Charley:
The Port Charlotte PD had a portable emergency repeater that they sorely needed for use in the early hours following Charley. #Someone screwed up the duplexer and it wouldn't work. #A call was put out for a ham with a service monitor on a wide area repeater system. #One responded about 75 miles away. #An officer from PC, who was also a ham, came up on the UHF repeater input and escorted the ham to exactly where he was needed. #Code 3, for 50 miles. #Had the commercial transceiver not had amateur frequencies programmed, the officer would not have been able to swiftly coordinate with the other ham. #One example of public safety being aided by commercial equipment being used on amateur frequencies. #I don't know if the radio was a Motorola or not.

The communications interference crimes that have been committed by nut cases have been largely done with modified amateur gear, and usually not commercial gear.
Why? #Because it's probably too difficult to set up.

We don't need more laws and restrictions. #Just swift enforcement and publicity of the prosecution as a deterrents. #Pieces of legislative trash like the Patriot Act, that attempt to take away or diminish Constitutional rights in favor of our "war" are ridiculous. #The greatest threats to the enjoyment of our way of life usually come from within......


Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (wb5yiw @ Sep. 20 2004,20:11)]If police departments don't want the public to listen in, they should digitally encode the signals so that they can not be recieved by unencoded recievers. #The technology exists and is relatively inexpensive (Transcrypt, among others). #... etc.
That is completely out of line. #NO legitimate police department operates in secrecy. #We have closed down too many "secret police" in other countries to start them here.

If my police department were to start such, I would immediately be in the Mayor's face, the chief's office and whatever it takes. #If a police department is to be fair to all citizens, it must be open to all citizens.

We should also see that all scanner restrictions are removed, too.

(And by the way, I carried a badge for 8 years - I know how it is and have utmost respect for good cops.)

I am disappointed in Motorola. I think my next cell phone will have to be a Nokia.......

[N9XK]

I worked for /\/\ in IL. for 6 years, biggest waste of 6 years ever. Never in my life have I encountered a company with its head so far up it's own A**, all the way from management to marketshare, a real surprise that they are still around.

As for the comment that said they should make a ham radio, they sort of do. They make the micom mobat HF radio. It's like having an HF radio that's channelized http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif . In my time there, /\/\'s internal engineering motto seemed to embrace a make it simple enough for someone with a grade school education to operate, no VFO knob, too complicated to operate!

Don't get me wrong, when their stuff works it works great and usually for a long time. Their equipment in general is FB by me. It's the best that slave labor can make (those of you who still work for /\/\ will appreciate that one http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) Heck, some of the stuff I built for them over that 6 years may still be floating around out there somewhere. I just hope the users of that equipment appreciated the amount of verbal abuse and "mandatory overtime" we employees had to go through to make their stuff. Yes, mandatory overtime, you don't work it, you don't have a job, yet another big secret /\/\ would like to sweep under the rug. That place made me understand why unions exist in other companies.

With their kneejerk management style I'm very surprised that they didn't slam the door on the flea market altogether when the police questioned them.

What's next with them, charging a royalty fee for every surplus radio re-sold with the /\/\ logo on it?

73'
Mark
N9XK
(served 6 years at IL-27 '89-'95)

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (N9XK @ Sep. 21 2004,09:15)]They make the micom mobat HF radio. It's like having an HF radio that's channelized http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif .

What's next with them, charging a royalty fee for every surplus radio re-sold with the /\/\ logo on it?

73'
Mark
N9XK
(served 6 years at IL-27 '89-'95)
Mark: #I believe they sold Mobat to the Israeli firm that was the co-owner some years back. #The military version looks like a great HF radio. #Pricey, though.

As far as a royalty goes, something very similar is underway: #A policy not to sell new front nameplate escutcheons to hams and others. #Only to Motorola Authorized Shops. #I ran into that one. #And, faced it head on.

I politely reminded them in an email, that such policies are not only discriiminatory, but may violate FTC restraint of trade regulations. #Since, individuals and small businesses, except the ones they choose, are barred from buying the nameplates.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[kg4chw]

What would you do?

You manage a company that sells communications equipment. You sell communications equipment to the police department in the city your business is located in. In fact, they buy all their communications equipment from your company. They are a good customer. You program all the radios to the frequencies that the police department in that city is licensed to use by the FCC. You deliver all the equipment, and they pay you. You now feel they are a great customer. As their police department grows, they order more equipment from your company. They recommend you to their fire, EMS, and other departments in their city, and other cities. Wow, who could ask for a better customer!

After some time the police in your city arrest a person transmitting on the same frequencies that police department uses. The police take the radio from the person and they notice it has a label with the name of your business on it. They ask this person where he got the radio. He tells them he bought it in the parking lot of your business! Your parking lot is secure; no one gets in or out without going thru a security checkpoint.

The police come to your business and ask you if you authorized a sale of a radio, which transmits on the same frequencies they use, out of your secure parking lot. You say no, I have no knowledge of such a sale. They then ask you who was using your parking lot. You say you gave permission to the local ham club to have a flea market. You did not charge the club for the use of the facilities; you were trying to be nice to your community.

The police then ask you what you are going to do to so this does not happen on your property again. You assure your customer that you will provide them with good service and you will stand by them. You tell them that you cannot control what people do with your products once they are out of your hands, but you assure them that no unauthorized sales of your equipment will happen on your property.

You feel the simplest thing to do is to tell the local ham club they will have to find another location. You tell the club they will have to go somewhere else. The club is not happy. They say they did not authorize the sale of the radio. Please don’t punish us or the ham community by making us leave, they say. You decide the ham club can have their flea market in your parking lot. You remind them that you promised your customer that no unauthorized sales of your equipment will happen on your property. You tell the local ham club that they can have their flea market, if they make sure that your policies are followed.

Now if this was your company what would you do?

[N9XK]

Or what.... they'll switch to an Ericsson system? Dear God they'll be beating down /\/\'s door asking for forgiveness as soon as that system goes live. Hillsborough S.O. here had all sorts of problems and they were regretting switching over from /\/\.

Sample answers for Barney Fife PD.

1.) Prove the perpetrator bought the radio in our parking lot, and I mean prove it not just "well, he said....".

2.) You are not /\/\'s only customer, and this parking lot is not the only place to obtain said used radio equipment.

3.) Recommend that the police department destroy / recycle their used equipment rather than contribute to the problem by auctioning it off to the highest bidder who then resells at a higher price at hamfests and on ebay to anybody.

4.) /\/\'s equipment isn't the only radio that can be programmed to interfere, are they going to ban legitimate ham radios from the flea-market too? Perhaps even in the entire town?

5.) This one is even simpler. Sorry, we only manufacture and install the equipment we don't regulate its sale after initial purchase. If we did that we'd have to raise the COST of YOUR next purchase.

These are just a few well thought out answers for the police / municipality in that area. It's absolutely laughable that /\/\ was even approached by the municipality about this.

Police departments across the US sell seized vehicles at auction. So if someone buys one of these vehicles, drives it drunk and kills or maims one of my family members, do I have any recourse with the municipality that sold it? No. Do I even have the right to ask them what they'll do to prevent drunk drivers from purchasing these vehicles on their property in the future? No. So why did this even become an issue? /\/\ should have given them an intelligent answer and moved on.

N9XK

[ka5s]

If I understand things correctly, every Amateur rig that covers 420 to 450 MHz is out-of-the-box capable of transmitting on police frequencies, since the 420-430 Mhz range is used for police operation in a few US cities north of "line A" along the Canadian/US border.

Cortland

[WA7VTD]

Frankly, I am amazed that we have not encountered this sooner. Colin Powell's son being FCC Chairman, I'm surprised we haven't seen some sort of admnistrative regulation adopted without Congressional action, that simply restricts the possession, sale and use of any radio transceiver capable of operating on other than amateur, FRS, GMRS etc. Yes, I know: from a technical standpoint, it makes no sense and is next to impossible to implement, but that has never stopped the well-intentioned but poorly-informed guardians of our welfare from promulgating silly rules in the past.

With the current explosion in development and availability of software-defined radios (SDRs), including ones with open architecture and software, the "problem" will be magnified. Expect to see Draconian regulations restricting such items to the HF bands...and when they figure out that those freqs are used by international airliners, watch for a total ban. But not until after the election, when the incumbent is re-elected.

I have wondered for several years, and especially since 9/11, why the feds have not shut down the high-powered amateur rocketeers; they already have to procure federal explosives handling permits to store and use some of the chemicals and prefab engines used to send their huge rockets several miles up. Some of things are 30 feet tall; the smaller ones reach 70,000 feet routinely.

And what about R/C aircraft and APRS? Combine the two and you have a poor man's guided missile. Launch several of them with APRS trackers on them all at once from different directions, fly them low, and control them from the air, from a cilvilan aircraft with control transmitter and APRS-displaying laptop aboard, and now you have a poor man's AWACS system controlling a squadron of cheap, medium-range smart bombs. In this country there literally is no limit to what may be constructed from readily available and legal materials, by technically-savvy villains. Good grief, look what could be done with a DTMF decoder board with relays, or with a barometric or timer-based detonator such as is used by the high-power rocketry boys for their parachute ejector systems! All is sold openly in the magazines. Geez, all you really need is a 555 timer chip and you can wreak all kinds of havoc.

As a huge seller of equipment (not to mention 800-MHz systems worth millions of bucks a pop), it's not hard to see why Motorola went total overkill here.

Here in Oregon, our ARES SEC has informed us that when responding to a callout, we are NOT to have ARES insignia displayed on our vehicles. Law enforcement is quite paranoid right now concerning people such as the nut-case who was mentioned in the original post of this thread, allegedly impersonating a police officer. Our Fire District EM liaison has also informed us that thousands of police and fire uniforms have been stolen since 9/11, and that in fact even large fire apparatus is being ripped off! Imagine how easy it would be for suicide bombers to race to a target dressed as firefighters, zipping to ground zero in a nice big fire engine, sirens and lights activated, and laden with a few kilos of C-4 or Semtex! Couple this with the fact that over 3 MILLION illegal immigrants cross our southern border EVERY YEAR, and you can see where this paranoia comes from.

Don't get me wrong...I disagree with policies such as the one by Motorola at issue. But I understand where the policies are coming from. And I am appalled that Motorola would pressure E-Bay to remove Motorola equipment from an E-Bay auction!

In the end, unless we simply wish to live in a completely authoritarian society such as the former Romania, these kinds of policies taken to such extremes as Motorola reportedly has gone (in particular re. E-Bay, if that is true), are nothing more than PR gimmicks designed to please the agencies spending the money, to keep the cash cow alive. Look back at Henry Ford, Joe Kennedy and Prescott Bush; all of them were war profiteers, and more than happy to make a few bucks selling materiel to our enemies just prior to, or during, states of war. Heck, our soldiers are being killed in Iraq with materiel our government gave to Bin Laden and the Mujahideen in the 80's.

If you expect mega corporations to be concerned about the desires of the ham radio population, you live in fantasy land. It's a capitalist world, and the bad comes with the good. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

So when you see some hobby item advertised you always wanted to dabble in, my advice is eat beans for a month and buy it while you still can.

- Kevin Hunt WA7VTD
Oregon

[ke4rws]

I think its silly when all the other radio manufacturers don't have this problem with their equipment. This is yet another crazy deal /\/\otorola came up with without any real merit. Just like they now want $1200 for a replacement case for a Saber. Not the whole radio, JUST THE CASE!! Gimme a break here. /\/\ has lost their minds on more than one occassion and this is just another one of those occassions.

They make fine radio gear. They just don't make any sense in some of their business practices. But hey, there's no law against being stupid.

[wa6jbd]

Quote[/b] (WA7VTD @ Sep. 22 2004,12:27)]Don't get me wrong...I disagree with policies such as the one by Motorola at issue. But I understand where the policies are coming from. And I am appalled that Motorola would pressure E-Bay to remove Motorola equipment from an E-Bay auction!

In the end, unless we simply wish to live in a completely authoritarian society such as the former Romania, these kinds of policies taken to such extremes as Motorola reportedly has gone (in particular re. E-Bay, if that is true...
It's true. See the link which clearly explains Motorola's eBay policies:

http://members.ebay.com/ws2....oftware (http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mot_software)

I attempted to sell an item listed on that page. Shame on me.

[WA7VTD]

[QUOTE]"Why was my e-Bay auction for a ‘New’, ‘Used’ or 'Parts Built' Motorola two-way radio(s) halted?

"1) Selling Motorola manufactured: GM300, GM338, GM398, GM339, GM399, GM950, GM3188, GM3688, GP68, GP88, GP320, GP328, GP338, GP329, GP339, GP2000, GP2100, MTX900 (non-US models), MTX960, PRO2150, PRO3150, PRO5150, PRO7150, PRO9150, PRO5350, PRO5450, PRO5550, PRO5750, PRO7350, PRO7450, PRO7550 or PRO7750 radios within North America infringes on Motorola's Intellectual Property and is against U.S. and Canadian Federal Law. These radios were designed for sale and use within Europe-Middle East-Africa (EMEA), Latin America and Asia Pacific commercial two-way radio marketplaces. They are NOT ‘Type Accepted’ for use within North America, by either the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) or Industry Canada, thus, are not marked so with an FCC or Industry Canada ‘Type Acceptance’ sticker. Replacing the nameplate of one of these radios with one from a North American radio of ‘like kind’ does NOT make the re-marked radio ‘Type Accepted’ for use within North America. Further, these radios are NOT designed NOR advertised to be sold as amateur radio units. Neither Motorola's North America sales staff nor its licensed North American radio dealers are allowed to sell these radios within North America for these reasons."

OK, well that is a different issue, but it's related again to US government policy. At least some of the radios listed (e.g., GP-68, GP-2000) are user programmable from the front panel, and for that reason were not type certified by FCC for sale in the US. There was a rather prolific (and very customer-friendlty and honest/reputable) commercial delaer in Hong Kong offering these on e-Bay for quite some time (I imported a GP-2000 from him). This crackdown by Motorola on the import and sale in the US of these radios has been going on for years, and I guess Motorola finally got around to throwing its weight around on e-Bay. I'm not sure that Motorola has a legal leg to stand on as far as private sales, but probably they have one to stands on (like itor not) regarding commercial sale via that outlet.

The other part of the policy you referenced (not quoted here) relates to proprietary programmimg software. Likewise, Motorola has been very vigorous regarding unlicensed sale and use of its copyrighted programming software for years and years, and has been known to come down hard on longtanding US dealers for giving it away to purchasers, etc. The same thing would happen if you were to advetise on e-Bay that you had 500 CDs of Windows XP for sale for ehich you were not licensed to do so.

Again, please don't misunderstand me; I'm not defending Motorola here, just pointing out that the policy you pointed me to is a different issue than that of selling, buying or using used Motorola equipment which is hardware-capable of operation in public service bands (and which of it is not? Not much of it isn't.) In the former case, Motorola has a legally valid (if not necessarily desirable) basis for its policy; in the latter, the policy lacks legal mandate and is of debatable (and in my opinion, dubious) wisdom.

- WA7VTD

[w6em]

Technically, for commercial use, non-type accepted units are, in fact, not legal to use. And, that includes amateur gear modified to transmit on commercial bands.

However, if a caveat or statement to the effect that such non-US, non type accepted units were to be earmarked and advertised for sale as "amateur radio equipment" this would be within compliance with law as I understand it. #If I'm wrong on this, please, someone say so.

And, Motorola knows this for sure. #Now, for the few that have asked "why" /\/\ doesn't manufacture amateur radio equipment.....Well, here's a golden opportunity. #If keypad-programmable models were to be advertised for amateur radio use only, and if /\/\ were to go the simple next step blocking keyboard frequency entry outside of amateur bands.......

But, no, /\/\ would rather just do as they have and attempt to block US sales of their non-type accepted equipment. #A sad story, since there are many of us who still value owning a US-named product, even if it is manufactured elsewhere.

Lee
W6EM

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (w1ron @ Sep. 23 2004,06:27)]Encryption of police radio transmissions is not illegal so there is nothing to dispute there. I retired three years ago after almost thirty years with a municipal police department in CT and I wish that we had encryption. It would have kept a lot of the police wannabes from showing up at scenes of police activity and sometimes causing problems.
All you had to do was jail the criminals that "showed up" and interfered with police activity. That has been against Federal law (and most states) for decades (improper use of radio equipment). It wouldn't take them long to understand where the limit is. Don't close legitimate access to knowledge of police activity.

After-the-fact reading of documents is no substitute to timely information.

[W1WFD]

Does M really think that their radios are the only ones that can transmit on public service bands? Maybe they should ban Yeasu and Kenwoods too.:0

[N3NL]

If we are going to have a future of tamper-proof
amateur radios and prohibitions of model aircraft
and model rockets, then we should expect a
decrease in the number of people going into the
engineering and technical professions.
Frankly, tamper-proof ham radios have no appeal
at all for me.
73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Sep. 23 2004,06:41)]Quote[/b] (w1ron @ Sep. 23 2004,06:27)]Encryption of police radio transmissions is not illegal so there is nothing to dispute there. I retired three years ago after almost thirty years with a municipal police department in CT and I wish that we had encryption. It would have kept a lot of the police wannabes from showing up at scenes of police activity and sometimes causing problems.
All you had to do was jail the criminals that "showed up" and interfered with police activity. #That has been against Federal law (and most states) for decades (improper use of radio equipment). #It wouldn't take them long to understand where the limit is. #Don't close legitimate access to knowledge of police activity.

After-the-fact reading of documents is no substitute to timely information.

Try the Secrecy of Communications Act. #However, you can't stop someone from showing up, based on their own receipt of information. #It cannot be shared, distributed, etc. #But, outside of cellular and MDS TV signals, there aren't federal regulations against listening in. #Only if what is heard is distributed. #If you were to try to arrest folks who show up, then you'd have to arrest 99% of the media, since they listen in and show up without invitations too.

And, for the few states and perhaps localities that have scanner bans, I doubt that any such laws would hold up if tested, since federal pre-emption of attempts by states and localities to regulate wireless telecommunications has a very firm history.

Encryption would solve your problem (of anyone unauthorized from listening in).

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[WA7VTD]

Quote[/b] ]And, Motorola knows this for sure. #Now, for the few that have asked "why" /\/\ doesn't manufacture amateur radio equipment.....Well, here's a golden opportunity. #If keypad-programmable models were to be advertised for amateur radio use only, and if /\/\ were to go the simple next step blocking keyboard frequency entry outside of amateur bands.......

But, no, /\/\ would rather just do as they have and attempt to block US sales of their non-type accepted equipment. #A sad story, since there are many of us who still value owning a US-named product, even if it is manufactured elsewhere.

Lee
W6EM

Interestingly, Motorola is willing to sell its equipment to seemingly anyone else overseas. A good Russian friend of mine over there has the Motorola franchise for a large region. He started out equipping taxicabs, etc., and made a good living at it. Even the cops started buying from him. Once he proved what a good businessman he was, he came under more and more direction and control from his Motorola contrtollers in Europe. This was not to restrict sales, however, but rather to expand them to anyone or any group that would buy. #So it is now not all that unusual to see a pimp or 'mafia' guy with an HT. This is in contrast to my first visit over there in 1989, when I was conferred a temporary Russian ticket and even granted permission with my fellow travellers to use a 2 meter HT. This did not last long, because upon pulling out the HT to call a buddy walking around a different part of the city, a thousand suspicious and fearful eyes would begin staring. Owing to the pervasively authoritarian Soviet goverment model, I was assumed to be someone with whom the average citizen did not want to come into contact, because I had a handheld radio, and only people intending you no good would have such a device -- much less brandish it.That was just before the Soviet collapse, and there weren't but maybe two ham repeaters over there, and almost all of the ham gear was military or homebrew (and damn good homebrew stuff, too, I might add...synthesized with digital readouts, etc, all constructed from scrounged and pilfered parts; Russians are the top-dogs of hamdom, but I digress).

Where I was going with this, is that it seems to me no different than Marlboro engaging in all the warm and fuzzy "stop kids from smoking" BS in the US, while dumping its deadly and addictive products at artificially low prices, all over Southeast Asia. US tobacco companies actually aggressively market to kids over there, even putting cartoon characters on the cigarette packs and flavoring the cigarettes in fruity and candy-like flavors. (If you look around, you can even find those here in the US, in certain tobacco shops).

These kinds of activities by mega-corporations simply have left me very cynical, and accordingly I have to assume that Motorola's policies under discussion here are designed merely to please the hands that feed it within our borders, whereas it could not care less who uses its com gear or for what purpose, outside the US. I wonder what the favorite brand of HT is for use by the insurgents/terrorists in Iraq?

Color me "CYNIC."

73,

Kevin WA7VTD

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (w6em @ Sep. 23 2004,08:07)]Try the Secrecy of Communications Act. #However, you can't stop someone from showing up, based on their own receipt of information. #It cannot be shared, distributed, etc. #But, outside of cellular and MDS TV signals, there aren't federal regulations against listening in. #Only if what is heard is distributed. #If you were to try to arrest folks who show up, then you'd have to arrest 99% of the media, since they listen in and show up without invitations too.

And, for the few states and perhaps localities that have scanner bans, I doubt that any such laws would hold up if tested, since federal pre-emption of attempts by states and localities to regulate wireless telecommunications has a very firm history.

Encryption would solve your problem (of anyone unauthorized from listening in).

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.
Nobody should try to stop people from "showing up". That is part and parcel of an open society. The only beef law enforcement and emergency workers have is when those people interfere with operations. That is what is a violation of law and should be stopped with some jail time. Also use of radio equipment in the commission of a crime is a federal violation, also.

Again, the secret police laws are to stop law-abiding citizens from knowing what is going on. That is what I have a problem with. And reading a written log later is hardly the same kind of oversight as citizens and the media seing first hand what is going on. (And you can't limit it to the media, either - look how one-sided the national media is now!)

[w6em]

I agree completely. #After passage of the so-called "Patriot" Act, we are beginning to look more like a national socialist gestapo.....intimidated media included.

We have way more than enough laws and regulations needed to appropriately control telecommunications.

Exemplary enforcement and prosecution are what's needed. #Not knee-jerk prohibitions to hide the truth from the public.


Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[k4wde]

Quote[/b] (K7FE @ Sep. 20 2004,13:47)]We are at WAR. I am sure that bad guys would like that public service eqpt also. This current restriction just goes along with the "times" we are living in. Roll with it and be happy that some people are thinking about your safety.
73,
Terry, K7FE
You better be glad we're not really at war.
Ham radio operations are terminated during
wartime. Of course we've not declared a real
war since WWII.

[kb9yiv]

Look at the Chicago Fire Department fiasco not to long ago of racial slurs on the radio and numerous types of profanity. First it was blamed on a illegal radio out there, then was switched back to their own firefighters who knew how to transmit, push the ptt and shut off the radio before unkeying so no MDC would be broadcasted. My point is that no matter what safeguards you put in place if the will is there there is always a way. Leave law abbiding HAMS alone!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[k5fx]

This policy is simply a continuation of Motorola management’s, well justified, antipathy to amateur radio.

During the late 70’s and early 80’s Motorola sold surplus and trade in radios to hams at warehouse sales in Dallas. #Pricing was virtually “by the pound” and many of the early ham repeaters and 2 meter, FM systems benefited greatly from this program.

Buyers were required to agree not to put the equipment back into commercial radio systems.

That all ended when some of the equipment began to show up back in the commercial radio marketplace, competing with Motorola new stuff.

The ham sales ended because some hams abused the privilege and violated the agreement.

Afterward, amateur radio never had the respect it once commanded at Motorola.

K5FX

[WB6DGN]

Policies like this are not new at Motorola. In the 60's Motorola bulldozed thousands of pounds of trade-in radios of all makes rather than offer them to hams for use on the ham band. Their reason? People, yes, including hams, were buying them and then reselling them to commercial users instead of using them for ham use in direct competition with Motorola. Can you blame them? They try to do people a favor and get stabbed in the back for it. I don't blame Motorola one bit for this policy. I blame the wannabe "cop" who didn't have the sense of a pet rock for this policy.

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (k5fx @ Sep. 26 2004,16:03)]This policy is simply a continuation of Motorola management’s, well justified, antipathy to amateur radio.

During the late 70’s and early 80’s Motorola sold surplus and trade in radios to hams at warehouse sales in Dallas. #Pricing was virtually “by the pound” and many of the early ham repeaters and 2 meter, FM systems benefited greatly from this program.

Buyers were required to agree not to put the equipment back into commercial radio systems.

That all ended when some of the equipment began to show up back in the commercial radio marketplace, competing with Motorola new stuff.

The ham sales ended because some hams abused the privilege and violated the agreement.

Afterward, amateur radio never had the respect it once commanded at Motorola.

K5FX
This isn't about what happened to the ham vs Motorola sales of yester-years.

The problem is, a manufacturer, to this day, takes in radios on trade in for new equipment and systems, and they are destroyed, and not resold. #Why? #To simply limit competition. #So that new users will have to buy expensive new equipment.

Imagine what it would be like if Chysler, Ford, and GM all did that. #There wouldn't be any used cars and very few could afford to own anything but a new car.

Purely an approach to restrain trade, in my book.

You say hams violated an "agreement"? #Was it written? #Did they receive the radios as gifts? #If they violated a written contract, then /\/\ should have taken appropriate action. #Condemning amateur radio for the actions of a few who ostensibly breached an agreement is an excuse, not a reason. #And, if /\/\ was selling used equipment to hams, why just Dallas, and not at every one of its-then regional headquarters? #Was Dallas home to their "crusher?"

Besides, if /\/\ was worried about hams reselling perfectly good, used commercial gear, they should have taken steps to remove its type acceptance, or at least nameplates, serials, etc.

/\/\ is in business to make the greatest return on its investment. #Sales of its used equipment gets in the way of accomplishing that.

And one last thing, IF /\/\ ever had any interest in amateur radio, like Kenwood, and Yaesu/Standard and ICOM, they would have marketed a line of amateur radio equipment. Maybe something like a Micom, with a dial in addition to a keypad.

Just my 2 cents.

Lee
W6EM

[WA2ZDY]

It's all about appearances. #Yes, Motorola is not pro-ham anymore, and apparently with what they consider good reason. #And yes, it's their parking lot, so they get to dictate what is done with it. #The ham club still sounds grateful for the free hamfest space.

But the bottom line is, being good taxpayers of the community where the place is located, they've decided to placate the local government, police, and taxpayers to make it look like they're doing "something" about the police impersonator.

To me, that's being a good neighbour. #At least in appearance. #Big M knows nothing they do will stop the bad guys, but as a large community presence, they have to make it look good. #That's just the way it is. #All this other palaver in this thread is just that. #True or not, it has naught to do with the subject at hand.

[w4fjf]

We get plenty of used motorola radios at the state auctions. some make fine repeaters.others are used as is, just reprogrammed for the ham freqs. why bother with motorola when the auctions sell the equipment cheaper and in better shape?

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ Sep. 27 2004,05:07)]It's all about appearances. #Yes, Motorola is not pro-ham anymore, and apparently with what they consider good reason. #And yes, it's their parking lot, so they get to dictate what is done with it. #The ham club still sounds grateful for the free hamfest space.

But the bottom line is, being good taxpayers of the community where the place is located, they've decided to placate the local government, police, and taxpayers to make it look like they're doing "something" about the police impersonator.

To me, that's being a good neighbour. #At least in appearance. #Big M knows nothing they do will stop the bad guys, but as a large community presence, they have to make it look good. #That's just the way it is. #All this other palaver in this thread is just that. #True or not, it has naught to do with the subject at hand.
Cheerio.

Well, I guess I'll continue with the palaver, however, its not deceitful or beguilling at all.

Improper behavior (not behaviour) by law enforcement is something in this country we look down hardly upon. #Intimidation (into doing or not doing something lawful) is, in itself, a form of discrimination and against federal law. #It's called a color of law issue, as I remember, from my last reading of the United States Code.

So, is it being a good citizen or a bad citizen to succumb to such intimidation? #I say its the latter. #Especially when it fits the demonstrated pattern of a company who wishes to destroy all used equipment traded in for new equipment.

And, as I said earlier, it fits in with the apparent desire of Plantation PD to label all Motorola HTs as an article of police equipment.

To whom did the offending radio originally belong? #Who programmed it for the Plantation trunked radio frequencies? #Earlier suspicions by other posters (that it is or was one of their radios, having fallen into the wrong hands) were probably correct. #It would have been a rather simple exercise for /\/\ to have checked its serial against their own database. #And if so, should have done as suggested by other posters, tell the PD to clean up its act......

73 and cheerio,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[wp3bm]

Well, I think radios should be sold with cleared memory and be programmed by the end user.

[AC0Y]

Gee, you all act so suprised. Motorola has been more or less wacky for many years. what suprises me is that it was ever allowed. Now the question is what the meaning is. Does it mean radios that are currently programmed for PS freqs? OR. does it mean any radio capable of being programmed for PS freqs.:p

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (AC0Y @ Sep. 29 2004,19:33)]Gee, you all act so suprised. Motorola has been more or less #wacky for many years. what suprises me is that it was ever allowed. Now the question is what the meaning is. Does it mean radios that are currently programmed for PS freqs? OR. does it mean any radio capable of being programmed for PS freqs.:p
Any /\/\ radio product capable of being programmed to a public safety radio frequency.

Per Richard, its OK to have on one's person a /\/\ HT, but don't try selling ANYTHING with /\/\ on it, lest you be inspected and dealt with accordingly.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[kc7mwp]

Everyone is complaining about Moto being harsh. They are covering their butts. I retired out of their Security Department and know what it is like with some of the people that come on site. If this person was carrying a Remington 12 gauge shotgun, would we be so prolific? Doubtful. He was a cop wannabe that could have caused some serious problems. If someone got hurt and this twerp was there, the Good Sam Act doesn't cover LEO's, so whatever dept department he was impersonating could be liable. And in this sue crazy society, where you can sue Smith and Wesson cuz some schmuck used their gun to shoot someone, the same could be said for the radio he was carrying. 'Gee, Officer, he had a Motorola radio and I thought he was a cop. But he stole my billfold while I was lying on the ground." I agree the measure was drastic, but like I said, they were covering their butts.

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (kc7mwp @ Oct. 03 2004,00:54)]Everyone is complaining about Moto being harsh. They are covering their butts. I retired out of their Security Department and know what it is like with some of the people that come on site. If this person was carrying a Remington 12 gauge shotgun, would we be so prolific? Doubtful. He was a cop wannabe that could have caused some serious problems. If someone got hurt and this twerp was there, the Good Sam Act doesn't cover LEO's, so whatever dept department he was impersonating could be liable. And in this sue crazy society, where you can sue Smith and Wesson cuz some schmuck used their gun to shoot someone, the same could be said for the radio he was carrying. 'Gee, Officer, he had a Motorola radio and I thought he was a cop. But he stole my billfold while I was lying on the ground." I agree the measure was drastic, but like I said, they were covering their butts.
I don't think anyone here posted anything to in any way justify or lessen the seriousness of the criminal act (of impersonating a police officer).

"Covering their butts", like you suggested, would be far better said if /\/\ had researched the serial number of the radio in their database, to determine its rightful and proper owner; and the PD had determined how this person got the uniform, patches, badge, etc. (or maybe someone should have asked them why they didn't). #And, then told the PD to "clean up its act."

Posts have included some assumptions why nothing was said about the PD's actions. #Likely, because it WAS their radio in the first place, either stolen or lost by one of their officers; and the same for the uniform. #But, to avoid embarrassment, the chosen course was to, in an oblique way, transfer the blame to /\/\.

That's like holding Ford accountable for all of the DUIs or felonies committed while driving a Crown Victoria. #Let's see, well, "we can't sell any more Crown Victorias to the general public since they are used by state troopers and local police departments."

And, legitimate owner, non-public-safety users of /\/\ equipment are doing so to impersonate a PSO. #Really.

73, and 10-7

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[n3eop]

Their reasoning is so transparent. #It has nothing to do with a radio turning up on a police frequency.

It's all about money.

/\/\ is protecting their dealers. #Why should anyone pay for a new HT from a dealer when they can get a used one for a third that off eBay or the local hamfest?

Further evidence:

"Further, these radios are NOT designed NOR advertised to be sold as amateur radio units."

So they aren't type accepted for the Amateur service. #For personal use, they don't need to be. #However, I'd be willing to bet that they'd have NO problem with a dealer selling a brand new one to a ham!

Follow the money...

Jamie
N3EOP/6

[N8WWM]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ Sep. 20 2004,11:55)]Gosh I really hate to say this, but maybe Motorola is waking up to the fact ham radio is not the same as it once was and we do have quite a few more in the hobby who will illegally use radios. #
Yep, it is just an expansion of the whole keyclown mentality you hear about on 11 meters. Sheesh.

[KB4BLI]

first off did anyone check to see if this actually happened? Did anyone check with M or the police department to verify this? Next was the person impersonating the police officer arrsted ( as he should have been )? Where did he get a uniform, badge and all the other equipment? what type of radio was it ( if it was a trunked it probably could only come from the P.D. ) Most of these questions concern me more than the fact he had the radio and why you may ask it's because I am a sergeant with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office with 27 years. Drew Ratliff KB4BLI

Ok. The answer is simple. If Moto dosen't want their commercial gear sold to the public, just go out and buy Standard gear! They are built as strong as a motorola, and are very simple to program. I got an HX-240 free, but now they have gone up to about $50 per HT.

[k2lck]

I have no way of knowing, of coarse, but my bet is that M is just concerned about getting sued fer sumpin or other... Many years ago, when I worked fer the Eaton corp, eaton sold, as part of their surplus, a 55 gallon used drum to one of their employees (if I have the story right).. Anyway, he took it home, hit it with an electric arc welder and blew himself to hell.. His wife sued Eaton and won (of coarse) and that was the end of Eatons' surplus sales... M's pockets are also deep...

[KI4GXO]

To All Hams If you are a ham you should already under-
standy why Mot. done this.
Also I missed the part where this guy was a ham!Most of the markets that Ive been to and Ham fest dont even ask if you are a ham to set up.Ive only been ask a few time if I was a ham,before buying any ham eqt.
I recently was cussed out at a market because I asked and told some guy that I could not and would not sell any of my ham eqt.to any one not a ham.He informed me that E-bay sold them to him,why not me.
I,m not the smartes guy in the world but I know right from wrong.I will protect my ticket at all costIt means more to me than a $.Thank you very much.
73s

[ka9uce]

In response to /\/\ closing down Ebay sales, it is dealing with software, not hardware.
M does not legislate, make policy or enforce laws, they are prevented doing so.
If I want to sell a M radio, I can and will, I own it-plain and simple, they have no authority to restrict me from doing this.

Also, no law enforcement agency should be allowed to encrypt their signals, I own the radio gear they use, as do all taxpayers, so I have a bonafide RIGHT to listen in to what they are talking about, since MY money paid for it!

M does not have any legal right or authority to restrict the sale of any radio equipment, once it is sold, it belongs fully to the buyer and NOT M, so they lost control of it when the sale was made, if this is not so, then I still OWN every piece of electronic equipment I built since day one and should be able to halt its sale....But NO, I "sold" it, and therefore have no authority over whomever is selling it.

Since the programmed "codeplug" is not functioning software, this also rejects thier claim sinc eit is NOT an operating system and therefore can not be modifed, copied or used by a computer, let alone, be used "as" a program since there are NO executable files, strings or coding that would make any codeplug fall under the copyright law/s.

A radio is NOT software, even though it is programmed by it, and a radio is not an operating system, and has never been able to become an operating system simply because the information contained in the radio was placed there by a program(which ALL of "M" software is simply a program that uses an operating system to function).

Some slob using PS frequencies is not a reason to make legit sales of used gear "go away", this form of "enforcement" by "M" is nothing less than a discriminatory tactic. Mot. loves the money, that's all there is to it!

As far as "non type accepted" gear goes, even if illegal, Motorola has NO authority to to step in and attempt to restrict the sale or purchase of equipment, federal law does that, NOT Motorola.

Ebay collapses under big money too, and "M" will use ANY tactic it can to get its way, even if it is immoral, or "slightly" illegal.

Motorola caters to the MONEY and nothing more!

I better not try to sell my circle-M gear now, I might be arrested by the radio nazis at Motorola....HA HA HA!!

I fI controlled the radio gear in any department or agency, I would buy from Relm, Johnson, or GE/Ericsson and let Motorola know the reason/s for it.
If every agency did this, you can bet Motorola would change thier business tactics overnight, just to CATER TO THE MONEY.

KA9UCE
Radio people do it with frequency!