Bush and Kerry

Enough with the 30 years ago issues. Those who are convinced Kerry did what he did and was honorable ain't gonna change their minds...

Those of us who KNOW the truth ain't gonna be able to change your minds, so let's not spend more time on that.


FAST FORWARD!!

For you Kerry fans.. here's a TOUGH one..

You ALL tell us how BAD the President is.. but I fail to see any mention of what you LIKE about Kerry!

Please.. tell me (us) WHAT he has done in his Senate career that you LIKE!! What, specifically, has he accomplished as a Senator that makes you LIKE him and can you ID at least THREE things (specifically) that he's done to draw you to vote FOR him as a candidate.

(DON'T inject any anti-Bush stuff. The question is "WHAT DO YOU **LIKE** ABOUT KERRY? WHAT MAKES YOU VOTE **FOR ** HIM??)


I have looked at his Senate RECORD.

Voted AGAINST almost EVERY major military weapons system (many of which have since proven to be crucial in the battles the US has fought)

Voted FOR just about every tax INCREASE that came his way.

Has been evaluated by various groups of both stripes and found to be one of themost LIBERAL politicians we've had - and that's saying something - given the likes of another Massachucetts Senator we all know.

AGAIN!! Tell us what you **LIKE** about Kerry. Tell us why you WOULD vote for him. (Specifics, please.. not just blind, general plattitudes)

PERSONAL OBSERVATION BASED ON SEVERAL MONTHS OF LISTENING TO KERRY SUPPORTERS.

When pinned down.. almost ALL of them have VERY little SOLID information about why they'd vote FOR him or why they LIKE him. Almost to a person, they respond in the context of 'Anybody But Bush!' which means that they view Kerry as a 'placeholder' who is simply the one that is opposing the President.

Fascinating!

[W3MIV]

No cigar.

The fact is, the hard-core support for Kerry is not support for Kerry; it is, indeed, a visceral dislike of Bush that is the result of his having won the last election—a fact that these people still dispute, although every news organization that examined the data came to the same conclusion: Bush won Florida, narrowly, but fair and square.

The reason that the FL election had to go into the courts was because of the die-hard mentality of the far-left wing of the Democrites, a group that has captured the political levers (though not by any means the majority of the party) and is now in their dying throes.

Most Demos will look at Kerry come November and reject him. Clinton was voted in twice because he was essentially a centrist—look back at the record and you will see he scored points again and again by co-opting many traditionally Republican positions and taking the wind out of their sails. Clinton is ranked a failure by most measures not by what he did politically as much as by the way he trashed the office of the Presidency with his execrable personal conduct and lack of fundamental honesty.

Kerry will follow the likes of Dukakis, McGovern, Mondale and others who wandered off too far to the left and found themselves all alone in the swamp.

Al, I agree.

However, my goal was to SEE (like Diogenes who searched for an honest man) if I COULD.. actually FIND someone who would be able to cogently, coherently,and practically tell me at least 3 reasons

WHY they will vote FOR Kerry and WHY they like him as a candidate.

So far.. based on what I read on the various T&O postings, hear on the radio, see on TV, and read in the newspaper is that the argument FOR Kerry is always phrased in the context of 'GET BUSH OUTTA THERE!' and tends to be laced with a fair dose of vitriol, vinegar, and negativity.

So, WX7B, W8EFA, et al.. (since you two are the most VISIBLE Kerry supporters on T&O)

Now is your PRIME CHANCE..

Speak up... let us know what YOU like about Kerry.

Let us know what 3 things he's done that make you want to vote FOR him as a candidate.

(and no.. you can't use 'because he's against Bush!' or any 'anti- Bush' statements. I want to know what HE'S done that you like.)

Should be a simple task.. N'cest pas?

K3FT

[k3unx]

It would seem that this would be an easy one to answer. Unfortunately, Kerry really hasn't done anything notable in his political career. So , the question becomes impossible to answer with the given criteria., So the only answer the Demos can possibilly give is " He Ain't Bush." Which is obviously outside the realm of the question posed.

So, my take is that you may end up waiting for a suitable answer. Sorry OM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73
Jonathan
K3UNX

[K3UD]

The big reason as to why some people like Kerry is because he is not Bush. It seems a lot on the left like him because of the stance he took on the Veitnam War after he came back from service, especially the congressional testimony.

They also think that he is going to be able to deliver some form of Universal health care, get the UN to take over in Iraq and get the congress to ratify treaties which the left supports. In addition seem to like the strategic idea the Kerry will take us away from nationalism and into one worldism.

On the other hand, according to #the latest Gallop poll, Bush leads 55% - 42%.

73
George
K3UD

[ai4ep]

It dont matter what is posted here, whether fact or fiction...I will vote in NOVEMBER.

Will you vote , or just hide behind a keyboard and gripe with sometimes no facts ?

No reply is necessary, for every one will " say " they are going to vote...they all say they will or did !!

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 17 2004,07:58)]It dont matter what is posted here, whether fact or fiction...I will vote in NOVEMBER.

Will you vote , or just hide behind a keyboard and gripe with sometimes no facts ?

No reply is necessary, for every one will " say " they are going to vote...they all say they will or did !!
Those who don't vote serve to make my vote stronger. I have no problem with this.

73, Rob (KFØRT)

[K6UEY]

As a matter of fact,I encourage the Democratic Voters to take this oppurtunity to express their dissatisfaction with the last Presidential Election and how it was handled. Like the Democratic Candidate did stand up and let you feelings be known, BOYCOTT the voting booth on November 2nd.Let those who run the election know how you feel by your absence. When no one shows up on the Democratic side they will know the voters are unhappy with the way things are conducted,let your voice be heard, the silence can be deafening.You as Loyal Democratic Voters are the only ones who can make the protest a success,you will overwhelm the machines and computers which were programmed to handle high volumes of voters . The Democratic Party is the party of the majority,you have more members than any other Political party, so your absence will make a major dent in the process, Don't let them PUSH you around ,it is YOUR vote to do with as you please, BOYCOTT and your voice will be heard. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[N7AAO]

I have voted in every single general election since I helped re-elect President Reagan in 1984.

However, if people choose not to vote, they have that right. The only thing is, I believe that by not voting, they forfeit the right to moan and complain about who gets elected. Why should I listen to someone who doesn't care enough to vote?

FT... I predict a long wait for a substantive answer to your query... but I predict the Kerry-ites will come up with lots of invective (look it up (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=invective)) about you, your family, President Bush, the Bush family, and so on and so forth.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[K0RGR]

I voted for Ronald Reagan twice. My only regret about that is that it means I also voted twice for GWB's father as VP, but back then, I actually liked the guy because he was a moderate Republican. I thought his handling of the first Gulf War was magnificent. Then he started pandering to the extreme nutball right, and lost my support with his negative campaigning.

Kerry is not a wildly accomplished senator. He is the ranking member of the Small Business Committee, so one might assume he is acquainted with the subject. He also serves on the Communications subcommittee, so he might even know something about things of interest to hams. He serves on the Commerce, Finance, and Foreign Relations committees, so he's been plugged into some fairly important things for a very long time.

Over time, legislators vote for all kinds of things. They often trade votes. It's the way the system works, and anyone who has ever studied government beyond the third grade level knows this.

How many Republicans have voted to provide federal funding for abortions? (answer: ALL of them at one time or another - whenvever it was part of a larger budget bill!) How many Republicans voted against the weapons systems in question at one time or another? When Kerry voted against those weapons systems, which ones did he vote for instead? I bet he voted to spend the money on defense systems that would be built in his home state or the home states of other senators that supported his projects instead of their competitors.

In 1996 Time Magazine gave him their "Honest Man in Politics" Award - interesting, huh?

[N7AAO]

In other words, RGR, you are supporting Kerry because he is not Bush, and not because of anything Senator Kerry has done or has promised to do, right?

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[ai4ep]

I dont see the point in making an attempt to make a candidate look bad. What DO you gain, other than some type of vengence-type of situation..... idea: If you were to run for office, would YOU want or need some one to drag out your personal past from incidents form 5 - 10 - 30 years ago ? No, of course you would not.

Treat others like you would like to be treated.

You reap what you sow.

{ and the most popular of all }
Judge not and ye shall not be judged.



you may smart off to the relatives
you may smart off on the radio

you might get away with smarting off to the cops, but if you dont you wont do much better smarting off to the court room judge


but
when you are facing the ALMIGHTY on your judgement day...he wont put up with your smart mouth...guess where you will go !!

[N7AAO]

So, EP, tell us what Kerry has done in his Senate career that tells us that you think he'd be a good President. Don't just throw out platitudes, give us hard facts.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[K7JBQ]

It's going to be a long wait, even if Kerry hisownself passes his no-code tech and posts here.

Even his own mailings don't ask for $$$ to elect Kerry, but rather to defeat Bush.

If Kerry based his campaign on what he's accomplished during three terms in the Senate, he couldn't produce a 10-second sound bite.

73,
Bill

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ Sep. 17 2004,10:20)]when you are facing the ALMIGHTY on your judgement day...he wont put up with your smart mouth...guess where you will go !!
Oh, Puhleeze... My "Almighty" adores smart alecks. In fact, you get 5 extra "Get into Heaven" points for the sense of humor. 10 if you can make Him laugh during all that judgement crap.

73, Rob (KFØRT)

[W8EFA]

I am voting for Kerry because of the issues:

1. War – I truly believe Kerry when he looked the American people in the eye at the Convention and stated he had been in combat, he knew what it was like for our soldiers in Iraq to be in the line of fire. He promised he would absolutely send our troops if necessary to defend us as he volunteered himself for Vietnam, but promised he would not send them if it was unnecessary. With 2 teenage sons’ this is very important to me. Afghanistan was needed; Iraq was not a clear and present danger!

2. Iraq- Kerry promised he would get us out of Iraq in his term. He also said he would seek help from the rest of the world in Iraq instead of our current go it alone. Today, our leadership has walked away from more than a century of American leadership in the world to embrace a new - and dangerously ineffective - American disregard for the world. They bully instead of persuade. They act alone when they could assemble a team. They confuse leadership with going it alone. John Kerry believes in an America that is respected, not just feared. An America that listens and leads, forges alliances, and deserves respect. We have lost the disrespect of the world. Think about how we had the whole world with us immediately after 911 and now the whole world hates us due solely to GWB’s foreign policy.

3. I want a President that will not re-write the constitution to discriminate against gays for political reasons.

4. The economy – Kerry will give middle class tax cuts as opposed to tax cuts for the top 2% that Bush gives out. He will incentivize small businesses keeping jobs here by offering tax cuts. John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

5.Education - As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. He will offer after school programs in the “open till 6:00 program”.
In the last three years, funding for No Child Left Behind has fallen $27 billion below its promised levels. This has left inadequate support. Kerry plans to fully fund this initiative

6. Health Care – The Kerry plan will lower family premiums by up to $1,000 a year, lower the cost of prescription drugs to seniors, and use targeted tax cuts to extend affordable, high-quality coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every child.
As I posted earlier Kerry will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada which Bush opposes as he supports the drug companies.

7. Social Security – Bush has hinted that SS is in trouble and that we just won’t get all that we thought we would and we need to raise the retirement age again. Kerry has promised he will work and enlist a bi-partisan committee to rework the system so people WILL get what they put in. Bush and the republicans would like to do away with SS and have everyone pay for themselves. I ask all you middle class Americans out there how much honestly would you have saved in your 20’s and 30’s toward your own health care with child costs etc. Those dollars you save in your 20’s and 30’s are the dollars that really mean something due to compounding. With private retirement plans we would have a crisis when all those people who weren’t forced to save retired destitute and the govt. ad to support them.

8. Environment – The Sierra club has rated Bush the worst president on the Environment in history. Recently, the League of Conservation Voters called Senator Kerry an "environmental champion. Enough said!

9. Homeland security – The 911 commission reported three years later after 911 we are no better prepared than we were before. Many of the intelligence problems that allowed terrorists to slip into our country before 9/11 have not been addressed. Kerry will improve our ability to gather, analyze, and share information so we can track down and stop terrorists before they cause harm

10 – Bush the oilman has no plan for increasing fuel efficiency, Kerry has Set goals for increased fuel efficiency, rely on sound science. On renewable energy once again Bush Administration has no goals; Kerry has set a goal to have 20% of our energy come from renewables by 2020

11. Gun Control – GWB let the Brady Bill expire without lifting a finger. I am all for the right to bear arms – but like the police chiefs across America assault weapons are no good for hunters or target shooters their only use is people killers.

12. Finally Bush had been a omplete and abject failure. Ibelieve he will go down in history as the worst president of all time - how could i vote for him.

[n3ijw]

I hate to drag this thread offtopic, but...EFA, would you describe the technical characteristics of an "assault weapon" that cause you to feel American citizens should not be permitted to own them?

Further, why does it seem most cops in fact opposed (http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24613) the ban?

Thanks.

[W3MIV]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ Sep. 17 2004,14:55)]11. Gun Control – GWB let the Brady Bill expire without lifting a finger. #I am all for the right to bear arms – but like the police chiefs across America assault weapons are no good for hunters or target shooters their only use is people killers.
I need go no further than this paragraph to see that you have no idea of what you are talking about. You quite obviously know nothing of the topic and can only mouth the claptrap offered by the likes of Sarah Brady (a known liar in support of her positions) and a Democrite dominated "union" with another political agenda rather than objective position.

All you have to do is go the the National Matches held every August at Camp Perry in Ohio and look at the rifles used in competition. They are all "assault rifles" following the political definition used by Clinton and Cronies.

Vote jor Kerry, EFA, secure in the knowledge that I, among a host of others, make your vote equal to exactly what it should be: naught.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n0ov]

I like what Kerry has to say about outsourcing.

Whoops -- weeks almost over. He'll say something different next week

Seriously -- is congresional voting record is reason enough to vote against him.

And I was looking for an option to Bush!

Heck, I'd rather vote for the known than put that unknown in office.

Only an Idiot would marry Kerry. Whoops.........that's another post

[K0RGR]

AAO - yes, and no.

I am planning at this time to vote for Kerry because I will feel safer with him in the White House than I do with the current occupant. I believe Mr. Bush is sending us down the path to WWIII.

I know that most Republicans honestly believe that we are safer with Mr. Bush in office. Why? Do you really believe that he is a more effective military leader than Kerry would be? Bill Clinton was a crippled president from the first 'bimbo eruption' forward. Sadly, his charisma kept him in office too long. FDR, Truman, and JFK were pretty good war presidents, why not Kerry? Who's got better credentials?

Are you saying that Kerry is too reluctant to use U.S. troops? Maybe - but if there is a war, I want it to be a just war, and not a war of choice. You can wave all the crap around you want about how America has fought pre-emptive battles before - sorry - that isn't the American way! Oh, we should never rule out taking the first punch when it's inevitable - that would be stupid, and no president would ever do that. But Iraq wasn't holding a dagger at our throat, either. When we go into battle, if 80% of the world says "NO!" we need to stop and find out why. Ignorance is not bliss - it is just ignorance.

When Mr. Clinton left office, I felt that I was a citizen of the leading country in the world. Now, I sometimes feel that we are being treated as subjects of an imperial power. There is a big difference. Oh, it's not all bad. But it is a world apart from what I want for my kids.

Of course, I do feel that the whole war thing is just a diversion - the really bad stuff is going on in the background. It's Friday night again - I wonder what new Administration actions will be announced tonight after the press goes home? It's reported to be a common event.

This administration has made fundamental changes to the way that our government operates. Oh, we can still call it a Republic, but mechanisms have been put in place that closely resemble those of undemocratic regimes. Noplace is this more evident than in the arena of public information. It is no longer sufficient to merely overcome your opponent through skillful arguments or debate.

Now, you must drown him out or erase his thoughts completely so they are not heard. But moreso, you must destroy the person through attacks on his character and his person. How long will it be before this translates from words and lies into physical destruction of the people?

So, yes, you're right, in most cases, I will be voting for Kerry because of things I hope he will NOT do. I would rather he sit on his hands and do nothing for 4 years than what I fear the incumbent will do.

[K6UEY]

I thought it was particualry humorous about the tax cuts,I was unaware of any cuts but I haven't heard ALL of Kerry's speeches,the one I heard he was going to increase taxes,wait a minute maybe that wasn't my taxes but the other guy he was going to raise,or on the other hand maybe he has flipped again since I heard him last. I guess the only way to know for sure what he stands for is to listen a few minutes before the polls open to get the latest flip flop. I do find it hard to believe he will do away with welfare,after all his Socialist Party was the creators of the program,that's one of the reasons he is raising the taxes.
On SS maybe Senator Kerry will let some of us in on his retirement plan, they have in the Senate,they don't contribute to SS like we do,they have their own plan,so does the RR they don't contribute either,they have a plan of their own,and Congress keeps taking money out of OUR plan to make the Budget balance or at least look like it is,read up on how Clinton Cooked the books to make it look good.
I can now more understand where EFA is comming from,but boy did some one sell him a package of goods,looks like this anti-Bush blitz the media has been conducting has effected a lot of people.This reflects back on our poor educational system,otherwise so many people could not be hoodwinked so easy! # # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N7AAO]

News flash, RGR, World War III has already started, it started 11 September 2001, when the United States was attacked on our own soil without warning... sort of like the attack of 7 December 1941.

I want a man in office that will win the war, not surrender and walk away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[W5MEJ]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Sep. 17 2004,14:21)]AAO - yes, and no.That seems to pretty much sum up the current Democratic Party platform.

Quote[/b] ]When Mr. Clinton left office, I felt that I was a citizen of the leading country in the world.When Clinton left office, I too felt that I was a citizen of the leading country in the world once again.

Quote[/b] ]Are you saying that Kerry is too reluctant to use U.S. troops? Maybe - but if there is a war, I want it to be a just war, and not a war of choice. You can wave all the crap around you want about how America has fought pre-emptive battles before - sorry - that isn't the American way! Oh, we should never rule out taking the first punch when it's inevitable - that would be stupid, and no president would ever do that.Spoken like a true Democrat - you covered both sides of that issue!

Quote[/b] ]Of course, I do feel that the whole war thing is just a diversion It scares me that you think that way. #A diversion from what? #I've heard some crazy theories before, but what in the world do you mean by this?

Quote[/b] ]So, yes, you're right, in most cases, I will be voting for Kerry because of things I hope he will NOT do. I would rather he sit on his hands and do nothing for 4 years than what I fear the incumbent will do.Finally, if that is the best argument you can come up with for your candidate, you haven't convinced me to change my vote!

73
Chuck

[ai4ep]

come on folks .......give all the folks who read YOUR post a great undeniable reason to change their mind !

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Sep. 17 2004,16:21)]When Mr. Clinton left office, I felt that I was a citizen of the leading country in the world. Now, I sometimes feel that we are being treated as subjects of an imperial power. There is a big difference. Oh, it's not all bad. But it is a world apart from what I want for my kids. #
RGR,

I know both sides of that feeling. I felt the same way after Reagan left office as you did when Clinton left. I also felt that way during Bush 41 and George W. Why? because we were the the leader of the free world and used our power to root out communism, agression from Iraq in the Gulf andpossibly most important of all, wage an unrelenting war against mindless terrorism.

I did not feel this way after the Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter administrations....especially Nixon and Carter as they led us down the pathway to weakness.

I give a pass to Clinton. I did not dislike him and IMHO he performed much better than I would have given him credit for at first. The side shows that prevented him from reaching the stature of say a Harry Truman (whose reputation grew the further away from his presidency we got) were largely of his own making.

To be frank, for me, Kerry has gone from being something of a sideshow to being the spectre of a nightmare scenario. Someone like Joe Liberman would have been a better choice by the Democratic Party for the world we live in today. I would prefer Clinton 10 to 1 over Kerry, but still prefer Bush over Clinton.

You mentioned WWIII. I tend to agree that it may have started with 9/11 just as certainly as Pearl Harbor started WWII for the United States.


73
George
K3UD

[W8EFA]

Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Sep. 17 2004,14:48)]News flash, RGR, World War III has already started, it started 11 September 2001, when the United States was attacked on our own soil without warning... sort of like the attack of 7 December 1941.

I want a man in office that will win the war, not surrender and walk away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif
Thst's what you fail to understand. Bush tells you we are winning and you blindly, mindlessly, believe him without looking at the facts. Sad really

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ Sep. 17 2004,15:51)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Sep. 17 2004,14:48)]News flash, RGR, World War III has already started, it started 11 September 2001, when the United States was attacked on our own soil without warning... sort of like the attack of 7 December 1941.

I want a man in office that will win the war, not surrender and walk away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif
Thst's what you fail to understand. Bush tells you we are winning and you blindly, mindlessly, believe him without looking at the facts. Sad really
No, I look at the true facts.

Every so often, an Australian gentleman named Arthur Chrenkoff writes a piece for the Wall Street Journal listing the good news from Iraq that the "mainstream" press won't cover. The following is from Monday, 13 September 2001 (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610).

Quote[/b] ]Society. Elections are still a few months away, but the people of Iraq are already looking forward to the opportunity of electing their own government. The Iraq office of the International Republican Institute recently released the results of an August poll of Iraqi attitudes, conducted by the Independent Institute for Administrative and Civil Society Studies (the International Republican Institute, by the way, is not a part of a vast right-wing, neocon conspiracy, but a " non-partisan, non-profit organization dedicated to advancing democracy, freedom, self-government and the rule of law worldwide"). Among the results:

More than 77% of respondents feel that "regular, fair elections" would be the most important political right for the Iraqi people and 58% feel that democracy in Iraq is likely to succeed. When asked about the upcoming elections, 62.2% expressed confidence that their ballot selection would be kept secret and above 75% felt that the elections would reflect the will of the Iraqi people.

Iraqis remain optimistic about the future and committed to seeing Iraq through her democratic transition. 50% disagree with the statement that "my life was better before the war." In contrast to daily media reports of the hardships of today's Iraq, more than 70% of respondents would not leave their country if given the opportunity to live elsewhere. An overwhelming majority express an optimistic streak that belies foreign naysayers, with 75% expressing hopefulness about the future. . . .

Government officials and governing bodies have also earned the trust of the Iraqi people. President Sheikh Ghazi al-Yawer and Prime Minister Ayed Allawi are "completely" or "somewhat" trusted by 68% and 60.6% respectfully. While IRI's July/August poll showed that Iraqis were concerned with security, the Iraqi Police and Army are well-placed to deal with these concerns, with 80.3% and 71.6% of respondents expressing trust for the Iraqi men and women trying to bring about peace. The Interim Government of Iraq (IGI) is trusted by 65.1% of Iraqi citizens. Iraqi courts and judges--critical in implementing the rule of law in Iraq--maintain the trust of 64.4% of respondents.

...

While the Iraqis will not have a chance to vote for another few months, progress toward democracy and good governance continues. On Sept. 1, the new Iraqi National Assembly officially sat for its inaugural meeting. Chosen from among 1,300 delegates to the national conference only a few weeks ago, the 100 members of the Assembly were sworn in during the meeting and Fuad Massum, a Kurd, was chosen as the Assembly's first speaker. Also, four vice presidents have been appointed by the Assembly: "They are Shiites Joad al-Malaki, from the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and Rassam al-Awadi, from Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's Iraqi National Accord, along with Nasser al-Aani, a Sunni from the Iraqi Islamic Party and Hamid Majid Mussan, who chairs the Communist Party." The Assembly has decided that in the future all decisions will be taken by a simple 50% plus 1 majority.

...

On behalf of the world's largest democracy, the Election Commission of India has signed a memorandum of understanding with the United Nations to assist the Iraqi electoral commission with the conduct of the elections. "In line with the agreement, the Indian Election Commission will help the UN with personnel and expertise to build and administer institutions that can conduct regular elections. Assistance would include procurement of election material, voter registration, training of officials and dispute resolution." The German government is one of many around the world donating money to the United Nations for the election-related tasks ($6 million in Germany's case).

...

After decades of enforced silence, the Iraqis are relishing a chance to speak out. Radio Dijla (Tigris), which went on air in April, continues to go from strength to strength. One of 15 new private radio stations, Dijla is the only one so far to pursue the talk-radio format. It broadcasts for 19 hours a day and receives 185 calls an hour--more than the station staff can handle--mostly about everyday life's big and small problems.

...

After years of neglect, the education sector continues to revive. Foreign assistance is often vital; Italy, for example, is donating 100,000 computers, photocopiers and lab equipment for Iraqi universities. The grant is worth 300 million euros ($365 million). There is also some good news for these gifted Iraqi students: "Nine Iraqis have arrived in Doha to study at Qatar's private 'Education City,' which includes top tier US colleges, under scholarships granted by the Qatar Foundation, a statement said. The group, which studied together for the past six years at Baghdad's School for the Gifted, will begin with a one-year course at the Academic Bridge Programme, said the foundation. The eight hope to study medicine at Weill Cornell Medical College, while the ninth is seeking to join the petroleum engineering program at Texas A and M University."

And that's just the "society" part... here's more:

Quote[/b] ]Economy. Good news for the Baghdad stock exchange, which will shortly undergo much-needed modernization: The Army's project and contracting office in Iraq is planning to award the $750,000 to $1.5 million hardware and software deal to automate the ISX.

...

A boost for Iraq's booming construction sector, too, as three recently rehabilitated factories of prefabricated building materials open for business in Baghdad, Kirkuk and Nineveh. In other construction news, Iraqi authorities continue to work on a whole range of smaller but nevertheless important local projects, such as paving countryside roads in Dyiala governorate, bridge construction in Wasit governorate, building more dams around the country, and more housing construction in Baghdad.

And some info on other matters that the Bush Administration is being criticized for:

Quote[/b] ]Reconstruction. This should help a bit: the Jordanian government recently unfroze Iraqi funds deposited in the country's banks by Saddam Hussein. After deducting some $250 million owed by the former regime to various Jordanian businesses, Iraq will still be getting back another $250 million to spend on new infrastructure.

The European Union is slowly starting to come on board with reconstruction assistance. "Now that the security conditions have improved, it is easier to provide this aid," said the EU's Foreign Minister Ben Bot during his recent visit to Baghdad. "Bot said he will meet with his European counterparts next week to push for increased EU involvement in the country, including efforts to train Iraqi police and civil servants and assist with reconstruction, administration and preparations for elections scheduled for January. . . . The EU has committed $371 million in humanitarian and reconstruction aid for Iraq this year. A similar commitment is expected next year."

Britain recently committed £50 million ($90 million) to specific bilateral aid projects: "Some £20.5m [$37 million] will be spent on capacity building for local government in southern Iraq, where some 8,000 British troops are deployed, and 16.5m [$30 million] on job creation and restoring essential services. Three million pounds [$5.4 million] will go on supporting central government efforts on economic reform particularly with respect to debt relief. . . . Ten million pounds [$18 million] will be split between a civil society project and another on engage citizens in the political process." This new commitments takes to £380 million, or $680 million, the total amount earmarked by Britain for specific projects in the liberated Iraq. South Korea, meanwhile, is planning to shortly activate its $2 billion aid package. And Japan will be hosting international donors' conference in October this year.

In the region, the government of Kuwait has committed $65 million in assistance (including $5 million specifically for Najaf) to go toward construction of new schools and hospitals around Iraq. Since March some $34 million collected in donations from a Kuwaiti-based humanitarian organization have been distributed to Iraqi government authorities, hospitals and medical clinics, schools, orphanages, and nongovernmental organizations. Meanwhile, "more than 4,000 Iraqi firemen will begin training in Bahrain later this month, in what is believed to be the biggest project of its kind in the world. The Bahrain government is providing the facilities, but the actual training is being carried out by an international company."

...

Iraq's health sector has also been receiving some practical foreign assistance: A team of nine British doctors, organized by the Management of Obstetric Emergency Trauma (MOET) and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, has been teaching some valuable lessons around Iraq, while at the same time saving lives:

A team of UK doctors has helped reduce infant and maternal mortality in Iraq following a pioneering project to improve midwifery practices in the war-ravaged country. They have taught consultants and midwives how to deal with medical emergencies that can arise during childbirth without the need for expensive equipment, which they do not have. It is thought that hundreds of women's and children's lives have been saved since two successive training courses were held in Basra in April.

In electricity news, "U.S. engineers have helped place seven generators on line this month in Iraq, bringing the national electricity capacity to more than 5,300 megawatts--a level that exceeds the country's pre-war capacity of 4,400 megawatts." Said Raad Shalal, a senior Iraq Ministry of Electricity official: "This is very good news. This will help to reduce the shortage of electricity across the country." This 33-megawatt generator started operation on Aug. 30 at the Qudas Power Station north of Baghdad and is now producing enough electricity to service nearly 100,000 homes in the central area of Iraq. A day before, another generator was restarted in northern Iraq, powering 17 megawatts and supplying electricity for 51,000 homes. The two new generators are part of 202 megawatts added to Iraq's national grid in August and 1,574 megawatts since the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers started working on the country's electricity system last year.

In other power news, $200 million has been allocated towards a new power generating plant in Najaf. In the capital, the authorities are buying small diesel and gas generators to supplement the electricity supply during periods of high demand, and three districts in Baghdad will be the first ones to shortly get the continuous 24 hour electricity supply.

Meanwhile, water projects worth 13 billion Iraqi dinars ($9 million) are being implemented in and around Nasariyah.

Space is limited, so I will not bother to quote from the "Humanitarian Aid," or "Diplomacy and Security" sections.

However, I couldn't ignore this section:

Quote[/b] ]Coalition forces. International help in security and reconstruction continues to expand. A 12-nation, 57-man NATO team has started training Iraqi security forces. "This is a long-term implementation mission, which means that tailored to the needs and tailored to the decisions of NATO authorities, the mission in the future will probably expand to meet the needs of the Iraqi interim government," says Maj. Gen. Karel Hilderink, commander of NATO's training force in Iraq. The contingent is based in Baghdad, but its members are sent out to conduct training in various military basis around the country. "The Iraqis being trained are senior officers and commanders who co-ordinate operations between the U.S.-led coalition and the budding Iraqi military." On the training menu:

While NATO has yet to announce its ultimate strategy for training security forces in Iraq, the alliance already has begun a pilot project schooling dozens of Iraqi senior officials in the ancient art of military management. About 40 alliance personnel--about half of them American--are in the Baghdad area training top-tier military and police leaders on how to lead forces and keep Iraq's new structures from falling apart.

...

Alongside the civilian reconstruction effort, coalition forces continue with their own tasks. In Baghdad, troops have recently renovated Abu Nawas Street, one of the capital's once great thoroughfares: "The U.S. Army's 1st Calvary Division have undertaken an ambitious $1 million project to renovate a two-mile stretch of street and park, creating a pedestrian mall with large grassy meadows, lively restaurants and fountains. Every day for a month, soldiers have worked alongside Iraqi laborers hired for $5 a day, shoveling dirt, clearing trash and removing an outdated irrigation system." Elsewhere:

Marines put aside their rifles and broke out their rulers Aug. 26, 2004, as they checked up on one of their investments in Iraq's future by paying a visit to a small local elementary school. The Marines, reservists from the 3rd Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, wanted to see the harvest of more than $5,500 they gave the Iraqi government to spend on making improvements to a school in Al Kabani, a fishing village near Camp Taqaddum.

Purchasing the school supplies was part of an ongoing effort by the unit aimed at improving the quality of life in the village near Camp Taqaddum, the headquarters to the 1st Force Service Support Group, which elements of the battalion provide security for. For years, the children in the town have been using the same makeshift desks and sheets of painted wood used as blackboards, things that if replaced would improve the learning environment for the students, the village's teachers told the Marines in March.

...

In Baghdad's Sadr City, U.S. forces supervise, finance and often participate themselves in the work to improve the suburb's rundown infrastructure. Just one of many initiatives: "Comprising a huge ditch, two backhoes and a score of Iraqi laborers, this vanguard operation, in a stronghold of the rebel cleric Moktada al-Sadr, is undertaking the repair of a cracked sewage line that pours rivers of slime into nearby homes." As the Army commander for Baghdad, Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli of the First Cavalry Division says: "If you make Sadr City look wonderful, you're still going to have 2 percent of the people who want to kill us. We need to kill or capture them. But we also need to make sure they don't have the support of the rest of the people."

Sometimes, the reconstruction is less tangible than new buildings or pipelines. Take, for example, the work of Debbi Heffinger, deployed with the Pennsylvania National Guard's 28th Signal Battalion. Heffinger, who in civilian life is a primary-school teacher, has been working with Iraqi education authorities through special conferences to develop education programs and provide assistance in "lesson planning, educational standards, curriculum and methods of teaching." Heffinger, and other American personnel involved in the project, have been receiving assistance from schools back home, whether in the form of valuable know-how or actual school supplies.

Heffinger "is working with other battalions to create similar education conferences throughout the Iraqi capital region. Thus far, her group has worked in the southeast district, which includes about 1,300 teachers. The next phase is to turn much of the responsibility for planning and organizing over to the Iraqis. 'We are working with the university here in Baghdad to develop a program where they go out into the schools and teach their own citizens,' she said. 'People within Iraq are stepping up to make their own country a better place to live, and that's what is most important here.' "

...

Meanwhile in Baghdad, Iraq's first safe house for battered and abused women is now open, thanks to the initiative of Army Capt. Stacey Simms, who had worked for the 352nd Civil Affairs Command. With a $75,000 annual budget, this facility, which can house up to 16 women, is providing aid and comfort at an undisclosed location in the capital. "The safe house not only provides temporary protection, but also educates the family that abuse is not acceptable. If an Iraqi woman is raped, the shelter can protect her from honor killings--an accepted cultural practice in some parts of Iraq. To date, five women, including one with five children, have taken advantage of the shelter."

...

Finally, read this story of a group of hospital corpsmen, from the K Company, Third Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, who for the past six months have been providing medical care for the 7,000 detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison. "The corpsmen gave the same quality of care to the detainees that they would normally give to American service members. The Army doctors they worked for even went out in town to purchase medications that they did not have on-hand. . . . 'We were dealing with detainees that the day before were possibly blowing up or killing Americans,' said [Petty Officer Second Class Travis R.] Neher. 'You were staring that person in the face and you knew what they had done because sometimes they would tell you.' Nevertheless, the docs still had a job to do. 'You had to go around that . . . and actually treat them as a human being instead of looking at them as the enemy.' "

Please feel free to read the whole article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610) sometime, EFA.

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[W8EFA]

Once again you are not looking at the whole picture. Thing's are going badly there, look at our own State department report. It is a fact that things are getting worse everyday.

An anyway you still don't get the point that Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terrorism.

[ai4ep]

any one gonna say something that will convince all these faithful readers to change their mind and vote for YOUR candidate ?

[N7AAO]

EFA, please specify what is going wrong there. I have quoted many examples of things going very right there, including the EU getting on the reconstruction bandwagon (I thought Bush had pushed away all our European allies), and all you can come up with is a personal attack about me "not looking at the whole picture." How about some facts?

As for Iraq and al Qaeda, how about this article from the London Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/14/wterr14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/14/ixportaltop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=173762):

Quote[/b] ]Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.

Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.

In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".

Please, feel free to keep providing me opportunities to post facts here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

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[W8EFA]

[QUOTE]EFA, please specify what is going wrong there.
You have got to be kidding me.

I think everyone will admit that things are getting worse daily there, The insurgents are growing daily. There have been more attacks this month than last month which last month was more than the month before, Do you see the pattern? Read the State department report that list the three likely outcomes that was all over the news yesterday. Even Bush has admitted things have taken a turn for the worst. Do you not read the news? No I think you pick out individual pieces of the news you like and base your outlook on that.

Here is an example of AAO logic:

Insurgents set off a nuclear bomb and wipe out half IRAQ
All the Oil reserves are lost
They behead 1000 people
we re-open a school

You will cut and paste that we re-opened the school and say look everything is going great. I am not trying to be mean but you just don't make any sense.

End of debate for me- I can't intelligently debate someone who is not grounded in reality!

[N7AAO]

If the reports are so bad, why don't you post excerpts?

Perhaps because it is you that is picking and choosing your news. I posted a small portion of a report on all the things that are going right, including the EU beginning to help with reconstruction, but you just gloss over that, and paint terrible pictures of someone setting off a nuke in Iraq. (by the way, if there were no WMDs, where did the nuke come from?)

I gave you verifiable facts about the good news. You give me empty opinions about the bad news. Try giving me facts instead of empty opinions.

As for not debating me, you're like Kerry on that... you keep saying you won't debate me, then you keep on doing it. Flip... flop... flip... flop.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ Sep. 17 2004,21:57)]Insurgents set off a nuclear bomb and wipe out half IRAQ
All the Oil reserves are lost
They behead 1000 people
we re-open a school

...

End of debate for me- I can't intelligently debate someone who is not grounded in reality!
What a fine example of being "grounded in reality."

[KB1GYQ]

Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Sep. 17 2004,22:02)]I gave you verifiable facts about the good news. You give me empty opinions about the bad news. Try giving me facts instead of empty opinions.
Now, now... we all know good news doesn't sell, and bad news does.

[N7AAO]

By the way, since you bring up State Department reports, here's some quotes direct from the United States Department of State website (http://www.state.gov/p/nea/ci/c3212.htm).

From a briefing by Under Secretary for Political Affairs Marc Grossman, dated 14 September 2004:

Quote[/b] ]UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Thank you all for coming. I want to make a statement today about where we stand on the Iraq reconstruction funds, and that is that the United States is committed to helping Iraqis hold national elections, as scheduled, next year on the path to a free, democratic and peaceful Iraq. And at President Bush's direction, the Secretary, the Deputy Secretary, all of us, have focused the Department's energy and effort to support Iraq's political transition, train and equip Iraqi security forces, create democratic institutions and rebuild the social and economic infrastructure of a country that was devastated by decades of misrule.

As you all know, the $18.4 billion Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund, the IRRF, was approved by the Congress and signed into law by President Bush on November 6, 2003, and that money, that effort by the Congress, the signing by the President, is a testament of the United States' commitment to success in Iraq. And we have taken our obligation, as did CPA and others before us, that these taxpayer funds must be managed effectively, transparently, and in support of goals for which the men and women of our armed forces and our diplomatic services are working and fighting for in Iraq.

We've worked to use these resources to address the most pressing needs of the Iraqi people and the challenges are great. Iraq will not overcome the legacy of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship and repression quickly, and threats to security have remained our greatest challenge. The security situation presents the most serious obstacle to reconstruction and economic and political development in Iraq.

Secretary Powell asked Ambassador Negroponte, who arrived in Iraq on June 28th, to lead a comprehensive review of IRRF spending and IRRF spending priorities, and all government agencies, as well as the MNFI commander, General Casey, and the multinational security transition command, Iraq commander, General Petraeus, participated in the review. Ambassador Negroponte and his team also consulted extensively with the Iraqi Interim Government to ensure that our efforts respond to the changing requirements in Iraq.

That team, Ambassador Negroponte, General Casey, General Petraeus, and their teams, they faced hard choices, but they decided that without a significant reallocation of resources to the security and law enforcement sector, the short-term stability of Iraq would be compromised, and the longer-term prospects for a free and democratic Iraq undermined.

In our report to you today that we have just concluded, an interagency examination of Ambassador Negroponte's proposals, and the Administration's consensus is that his plan, this plan developed between him and General Petraeus and General Casey offers the best way forward to advance our common goal of a stable, secure and democratic Iraq.

The proposal addresses the need to improve security, which is obviously a key to all reconstruction efforts, while devoting additional resources to improving the economic and political environment in advance of the elections, including, very importantly, accelerating employment opportunities for Iraqis. In consultation with the Congress, these changes will be implemented as quickly as possible to support Iraq's transition.

And before we take any questions, I'd just make two other points in this regard: First, and that is to say, we want to continue to spend, as quickly as possible, the money in the Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund and give you some numbers to show you where that trend is headed.

As of June 30th 2004, about $400 million of that money had been disbursed. September 1st, 2004, $1,019,000,000 had been disbursed, and as of September the 8th, which are the last figures that I have, $1,138,000,000 had been disbursed.

The second point I wanted to make in concluding here is we have given to you a short piece of paper, which shows the increases and the decreases, the reallocation that Ambassador Negroponte and his team have proposed 3.4 – $3,460,000,000 worth of increases, the same amount of decreases.

I think it's important to note there under the decreases that although water and sewage decreases from 4.4 billion-150 million dollars to $1.935 billion, there will still be, therefore, $2.2 billion left in the water and sewage account. So we don't want anybody to walk away thinking that there won't be any money in these accounts left. There will still be substantial money in these accounts; and the same with electricity, which started at $5,540,000,000 down to $1,074,000,000 which still leaves $4.47 billion in electricity. In gross numbers, it's going from about half of the program to about a third.1

We think that these reallocations will provide a real chance forward here in creating additional security and law enforcement capacity, additional oil capacity, comprehensive development, debt reduction, accelerated employment and, very importantly, as we move toward the election, increases in the ability of Iraqis to have a democracy and govern themselves.

Sure looks like bad news to me... for those that say we are losing in Iraq.

From remarks by Secretary Powell himself at Georgetown University, 10 September 2004:

Quote[/b] ]Three years ago an Iraqi regime that had made and used weapons of mass destruction, that had dug mass graves for its own people, and that had associated with terrorists for many years, that regime, three years ago, was defying the world. Thanks to President Bush's leadership and, once again, a coalition of willing nations, committed leaders, often going against their own public opinion, came together and undertook the hard work and sacrifice of so many others to make sure that that regime would no longer threaten the world, and that regime is gone.

Three years ago the peoples of Afghanistan and the people of Iraq were in thrall of dictators and fanatics, their fears cultivated and their hopes crushed.

Today more than 50 million people in those two countries greet each other in the new sunrise of freedom. That freedom is challenged. Yes, we can see it. We can see it in the bombings that take place in Iraq. We can see it in the presence of terrorists in Iraq and former regime elements who still fight against the hopes and dreams of free Iraqi people. We see it also in Afghanistan, as it gets ready for an election, an election that would have been unthinkable a few years ago when the Taliban was in charge. But now 9 million Afghans have registered to vote, men and women; 3 million of them have just come back to Afghanistan from the refugee camps of Pakistan and Iran to join in this new nation that they are building.

And, yes, the Taliban tries to interrupt and interfere. Al-Qaida, still hiding in its sanctuaries, tries to reach out and strike. And we see how innocent people are killed in both Iraq and in Afghanistan. What for? Because they merely want peace and freedom and to live in security.

Genuine democratic government lies before them. We're getting ready for elections in Iraq, just as we are close to elections in Afghanistan. Opportunity and justice now can come to the forefront and shape their destiny.

However, I have been all over the State Department website and cannot find any of the reports you mention. Please provide a link where I can read it.

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[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (KB1GYQ @ Sep. 17 2004,19:07)]Quote[/b] (N7AAO @ Sep. 17 2004,22:02)]I gave you verifiable facts about the good news. You give me empty opinions about the bad news. Try giving me facts instead of empty opinions.
Now, now... we all know good news doesn't sell, and bad news does.
How true, GYQ. The gentleman I quoted earlier has something to say about that, too:

Quote[/b] ] And so another two weeks pass in Iraq, with media attention largely diverted away from the positive and the encouraging and towards the sensationalistic and the tendentious. I'll leave the last words to Mohammed A.R. Galadari, writing in the United Arab Emirates' Khaleej Times:

Highlighting violence alone is not the role of the media. We have to see the brighter side too, and report them faithfully. That is how the reader/viewer gets a clear picture. Our effort should not be to create situations in which people are carried away by their emotions. What helps people in the long run is important. That needs to be projected. There comes the question of professional integrity and responsibility. Can the Arab media claim to be conducting itself in a fully responsible way, in relation to the developments in Iraq?

An important question that needs be asked not just in Arab newsrooms, but everywhere else around the world.

Again, here is a link to the article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610) (the quoted paragraphs above are the last in the article).

[W8EFA]

I can't believe you don't understand things are not going well.
Here are just a few examples :

A CIA report prepared for Bush in July, and which leaked out this week, cited a worst-case scenario of a slide into civil war and said the most optimistic outlook involved continued instability and security concerns, according to officials who have seen it.



'Iraqi polls impossible in present scenario' Powell says (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/854787.cms)

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ Sep. 17 2004,20:22)]I can't believe you don't understand things are not going well.
Here are just a few examples :

A CIA report prepared for Bush in July, and which leaked out this week, cited a worst-case scenario of a slide into civil war and said the most optimistic outlook involved continued instability and security concerns, according to officials who have seen it.



'Iraqi polls impossible in present scenario' Powell says (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/854787.cms)
Your own linked article shoots your assertion in the foot.

Quote[/b] ] "We don't expect the security situation as it exists now on the 16th of September to be the security situation on the day Iraqis vote," Powell said. "We know, and Iraqi Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi knows that those areas have to be brought back firmly under government control." (emphasis mine)

Also...

Quote[/b] ] The coalition efforts to train and equip a sizable Iraqi force, coupled with the decision this week to dedicate some $3 billion of the $18 billion Iraq reconstruction package to security, would improve the situation on the ground, he said.

Those are from your own article, EFA!

Returning to the report I referenced earlier (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005610), I guess I erred in not posting quotes from the "Diplomacy and Security" section... allow me to remedy that:

Quote[/b] ]On the security front, while sporadic fighting and terrorist activity continue, there are also some positive developments. In Baghdad, there are indications that the public support for insurgency might be waning: "Overwhelmingly residents of the war-torn area voiced their frustration and anger at the militia, noting that they were tired of the civilian casualties, tired of being without basic services and wanting nothing more than to get back to their normal life," says Cpl. Benjamin Cossel with the First Cavalry Division.

From Najaf, more evidence emerges of the behavior of Muqtada al Sadr's militia during the recent fighting--see this post by Iraqi blogger Zeyad. And another Iraqi blogger, Omar, reports on the recent statement by Iraqi clerics condemning the atrocities committed by al Sadr and his followers while in control of Najaf.

...

Meanwhile, the police force is chalking up some successes, like breaking up the biggest kidnapping ring in Baghdad, responsible for taking several government officials and scientists for ransom. The gang was composed of criminals amnestied by Saddam Hussein in 2002. In a related, albeit this time moral, victory, the most senior Sunni religious body in Iraq, the ulema, has issues a fatwa, declaring hostage-taking to be un-Islamic and ordering that all hostages be released.

It's not just the police, but also the army, which is proving their worth. "The Iraqi security forces, every day, are proving themselves more capable and more fit," says Air Force Brig. Gen. Erv Lessel, the multinational forces' deputy operations director. The report notes that "besides being called in to restore law and order in Najaf and elsewhere across the country, Iraq's security forces also have been responsible for discovering a number of explosive devices and weapons caches in recent weeks. For example, Iraqi National Guard members found a huge cache of weapons and ordnance Aug. 26 during a joint raid conducted with U.S. Marines on a home near Haswah, according to a Multinational Force Iraq news release. About 132 107 mm rockets were seized during the raid, the release stated, as well as seven 57 mm rockets, 10 AK-47 assault rifles, seven 125 mm tank rounds, five rocket-propelled grenade launchers, 124 RPG rounds, 200 mortar rounds, bomb-making materials and improvised explosive devices."

Another report notes: "Joint U.S. and Iraqi forces have arrested 500 suspected insurgents in a major raid in the majority Sunni town of Al-Latifiyah, south of Baghdad. The raid--the first undertaken in the Sunni triangle by the new Iraqi interim government--highlights the increasingly frontline role of Iraqi forces in security operations." Meanwhile, a new Iraqi army base reopens:

The Iraqi flag was raised over the newly refurbished and rebuilt forward training base here Sept. 1 in a ceremony on the station's parade grounds, signaling an end to the roughly $165 million coalition project. The opening coincides with the arrival of the Iraqi Intervention Force's 3rd Battalion recruits, who join two other battalions currently training at the base. Numaniyah will serve as the Iraqi army's 2nd Brigade headquarters. The base is a step toward rebuilding the nation, said the 5th Division commander. . . .

In addition to serving as a much-needed training base for the Iraqi armed forces, the base employs roughly 2,000 workers from surrounding areas. Local citizens have been in on the project from the ground up, helping or employed in many critical aspects including school construction and refurbishments, medical assistance and water projects. Joining bases in Kasik, Kirkuk, Taji and Kurkush, Numaniyah may also include base housing for soldiers' families. Two base dining facilities will be complete in the coming months, as well, with the capacity to feed roughly 3,000 soldiers each.

Welcome to the real world... things aren't perfect in Iraq yet, but they are getting better, not worse.

As for the reports that paint a pessimistic picture, first, you yourself admit that is a worst-case scenario. Second, the report was prepared in July, and a lot has changed in the last month or two, and continues to change. Why not use a current report instead of one over a month old?

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(edited for grammatical errors)

[n3ijw]

“Doom & Gloom about Iraq’s future... I don’t see it from where I’m sitting.” (http://www.indepundit.com/archive2/2004/09/from_where_im_s_1.html)

[AI4FR]

Quote[/b] ]11. Gun Control – GWB let the Brady Bill expire without lifting a finger. I am all for the right to bear arms – but like the police chiefs across America assault weapons are no good for hunters or target shooters their only use is people killers.
Boy, is that ever the media doing the thinking for this pour soul.

What part of the constitution do you not understand? You claim Kerry will not change it, but you want it changed because you believe in the lies of the leftist media. Kerry has voted against the constitution(guns) at least 50 times in the past and rates a big fat F with the NRA.

[K6UEY]

If you check the Senate Voting record Kerry didn't even want the troops in Iraq to have assualt weapons and materials he voted against it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[k5rna]

EFA.I also remember two people looking straight into the camera.One said,i am not a crook.Another said ,i did not have sex with that woman.Please stand by while i get my violin out.I really do have and play one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Sep. 18 2004,02:08)]If you check the Senate Voting record Kerry didn't even want the troops in Iraq to have assualt weapons and materials he voted against it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
But, Orv, he voted for it before he voted against it! That makes it all okay, right? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

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[ai4ep]

heard a man say on HF ( and no he did not have a 4 call sign ) on Friday morning, that he is just going to vote for KERRY since his ex-wife is going to vote for BUSH.

[N7AAO]

More on how things are going in Iraq, from the Wall Street Journal's editorial of 18 September 2004 (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005638):

Quote[/b] ]Violence is spiking again in Iraq, and U.S. officials are warning that it is going to get worse before it gets better. So now is a good moment to sort out where we are in Iraq, and more important, to remember who precisely our enemy is.

The first thing to stress is that Iraq is not in "chaos," nor is there some general uprising against either Coalition forces or the interim government led by Ayad Allawi. If that were true, the violence would be far worse. The latest CIA assessment is negative, at least according to the spin of this week's news leaks, but given the agency's track record in Iraq that estimate may or may not be accurate. One clear CIA mistake has been its predictions of communal or religious fighting; the striking thing is how little Sunni vs. Shiite, or Kurd vs. Arab, violence there has been so far.

The second crucial point is that the Shiite majority remains committed both to elections and to a pluralistic Iraq. The moderate Grand Ayatollah Sistani is the recognized Shiite authority in Iraq, as his role in negotiating the recent Najaf ceasefire shows, and he has explicitly rejected the Iranian model of religious government.

...

So who are we fighting? The answer is a combination of Saddam Hussein's former Fedayeen, intelligence services and other Baathists, as well as jihadists led by the long-time Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi. The extent of their cooperation is unknown, but they certainly share the same immediate goal of promoting violence--both random, and precisely targeted against Iraqis who work with the Coalition--to drive the Americans out and create enough mayhem so they can take over.

...

As long ago as April 2003 we were hearing talk of a so-called "Party of Return," or attempt by the Baath Party to go underground and slowly undermine work toward a free Iraq. Coalition forces have found documents, also dating from the immediate post-invasion period in 2003, outlining a detailed plan for the efforts, including the establishment of Fallujah as a staging area with weapons caches and hideouts. The Bush Administration ought to release those documents to enhance American understanding of who our troops are fighting. These are bitter-enders who will never surrender and have to be killed.

As for the jihadists, their goal is the establishment of a Taliban-like regime in Iraq, or at least stopping the spread of liberal social and political ideas in the Middle East. Long before the war in Iraq, Zarqawi was linked to terror in Jordan, Georgia and London. The infamous January memo intercepted on its way from Zarqawi to al Qaeda commanders makes this clear: "Blood has to be spilled. For those who are good, we will speed up their trip to paradise, and the others, we will get rid of them."

The Zarqawi memo also reveals how much recent developments have been the product of a deliberate plan rather than a popular revolt. It talks of using the Sunni Triangle as a sanctuary, and of targeting the Shiite community with car bombs, along with Iraq's "bastard government." Stopping the creation of Iraqi security forces appears to be Zarqawi's primary aim. "How can we kill their cousins and sons and under what pretext," he asks, "after the Americans start withdrawing?" This week's attack on the recruiting station in Baghdad and on a group of Iraqi police to the north shows that strategy at work.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[ai4ep]

...and his point is ?