SERA Wants All Repeaters Toned!

[n4fv]

This is my response to the recent SERA policy that was passed to require CTCSS tone on all repeaters by July 1, 2006. The ARRL has posted a short story at this website. http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/27/3/?nc=1

The issue of requiring CTCSS on all 2-meter repeaters is a very controversial one. SERA is claiming they want to do it to reduce interference complaints. This is not a valid reason as a CTCSS decoder will only let the signal it is receiving with the correct tone key the repeater transmitter and rebroadcast that signal. IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE ON FREQUENCY INTEFERENCE from intermod, spurious signals, or other users not transmitting the proper CTCSS tone. Any signal that is not CTCSS encoded with the proper tone on the repeater receiver input frequency is going to require a stronger signal with the proper tone encoded on it in order to capture the receiver and open the tone squelch. Does this sound like a good reason to require it? The only advantage to SERA in requiring all 2 meter repeaters have CTCSS decoders on their receivers is they will be able to coordinate repeaters much closer together under the pretense that users of repeater systems A and B will not be keying each other’s repeaters.

Station X might be 75 miles away from repeater A and talking on repeater B which is 25 miles away from station X. Station X’s signal at repeater A might be strong enough to keep low power station Y from capturing the receiver on repeater A and prevent use of repeater A to low power station Y. Station Y makes a call, the repeater does not key up, and station Y thinks the repeater is experiencing problems and QSY’s to another frequency. Or another scenario where station Y is in QSO and suddenly his signals are gone from repeater A and the only time anyone can hear him is when station X is not transmitting. Someone is going to say station X should hear repeater A and realize he is causing problems. That’s not true if station X has his tone squelch turned on so he doesn’t have to listen to repeater A when monitoring repeater B.

As a 2 meter repeater owner and trustee, the only reason I am currently running CTCSS is to eliminate the key ups of my repeater that are caused by the various commercial services, TV stations, and paging transmitters that are not very clean on the mountain where my radios are located. It gets pretty annoying to have the repeater key up constantly on noise spikes or bursts when you are trying to monitor it many hours each day. Does this eliminate the interference? No! It just masks the problem.

Gary Pearce KN4AQ in his column Squelch Tails even goes so far as to explain the same things to the repeater users but then passes it off as an acceptable evil and says he has no sympathy for you if you can’t program your new radio, won’t retire your old radio, or “too cheap” to replace your old radio. Gary, I have no sympathy for SERA Repeater Journal for loss in revenue from memberships and sales from all the hams that are cheap or can’t program their radio easily.

What really galls me is the fact that SERA passed a new policy with absolutely no input from either owners or trustees and then said if you don’t comply, we will tell Riley Hollingsworth if he enquires as to your status that “the owner chose to operate their repeater outside the conditions of coordination by not using tone access. SERA would interpret that as a no.” We all know what this means as Mr. Hollingsworth has made many amateurs remove their repeaters from the air that were not in compliance with the local coordinating body.

There are many other reasons supporting the decision not to require mandatory tone access such as travelers or use during a emergency. Whether you support or oppose the mandatory tone requirement, please go to http://www.wm4t.com/sera and vote. If you would like to email your SERA state director or other SERA officials to voice your opinion, you can visit http://www.sera.org to obtain their contact information.

Bobby Gass N4FV
n4fv@yahoo.com

[WD8OQX]

Am I missing something here? Who is "Sera" to be dictating ANY rules, anyway?

(I know what SERA is - just repeater coordinators)

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KZ1X]

I'm missing something.

Commercial repeaters have used CTCSS since the 1970s, and now have largely abandoned that technology for DPL, and trunking.

All our club's repeaters have been tone-access since they went on the air, over a decade ago.

FM is supposed to be nice, easy-copy, interference free. "PL" helps make that so, in today's crowded RF environments.

My mobiles and HTs use PL decode, as well,and I never get a whit of intermod or the other sorts of complaints I hear people grousing about. Just a nice, clear voice come out of my speaker, when someone is talking.

How is this a bad thing?

[KC0NPF]

I just posted something similar on eham, Why not make a standard when repeaters announce their own tone? Our unit is a 'smart' machine that has a voice IDer on the half hour that announces the 100hz tone. Why not impliment that?


my 2/10 of a cent worth,

KC0NPF

[ke4pjw]

Why would you not want to run "tone"? I know at one time it was a technology that was used to exclude some from using "the repeater", but that no longer is the case.

I always get a giggle out of the "un-toned" 2 meter repeaters around here that "Kerchunk" everytime there is a flash of lightning in the sky. I couldn't stand to be the control op having to listen to that mess.

Using tone to help mitigate incidental interference from distant stations accessing a repeater on the same pair makes good sense to me.

I can't think of a single reason not to use "tone".

*Tone being DCS or CTCSS

[w3wn]

I find it interesting that N4FV states that this new SERA policy was passed 'with absolutely no input from either owners or trustees and then said if you don’t comply, we will tell Riley Hollingsworth if he enquires as to your status that “the owner chose to operate their repeater outside the conditions of coordination by not using tone access. SERA would interpret that as a no.”'

If true (and it's not that I doubt him, but I have no personal knowledge one way or the other) I have a strong hunch that a decent lawyer, should it ever get so far, would have a Field Day with this one! Not that I want to see a lawyer enriched, but... doesn't the membership of SERA (presumably the repeater owners in the coverage area) have any say? Can't they bring this up at the next meeting, and reopen the discussion if sufficient number are upset?

If this is NOT the case... well, if I were a member of the organization, I'd try to get the bylaws changed or run for office myself -- and that's half the problem, few want to do the neccesary work involved, so those who do so sometimes forget that just because they want to make a change doesn't mean everyone does, or that it's in the best interests of the majority.

And what happens when SERA, or another organization doing something similar, claims a repeaters is operating outside of coordination due to a change made after (and especially long after) the initial coordination was granted? I do believe that a certain concept known as "grandfathering" may come into place... again, a decent lawyer can make a good case for it. Especially when the repeater owner shows his original coordination paperwork with no mention of CTCSS encoding being mandated.

And it could be worse. Did you know that the Western PA Repeater Council has removed about half of the "standard" 2 meter simplex channels from the "standard" bandplan (see any ARRL Repeater Directory of recent years), and reassigned those as repeater inputs and outputs? Yep -- it's even posted on their web site. Be interesting, to say the least, the first time there's a conflict between someone following the "standard" band plan and someone following the WPRC one. (And if the WPRC ever told anyone about the band plan change, outside of posting it to their web site, I've never come across them, and that includes quite a few repeater owners who are or were WPRC members too!)

But I digress.

I wish SERA the best of luck in implementing this. They're going to need it!

73

[n4zou]

I have not been on a local repeater in my area in years. The reason is PL tones on the repeater. This prevents groups using the repeater with different PL tones between them. If you're running several different emergency groups or even just one then you force them off the PL toned repeater at that instant you turn on the PL tone. No emergency group wants to hear chit-chat on the repeater they monitor 24/7. Emergency group 1 would use a PL tone to prevent hearing this chit-chat stuff until the Emergency group using a PL tone for that group causes all members transceivers to open up and receive the Emergency net call. Yes, a repeater can pass a PL tone through the audio circuits. Also anyone that wants to activate the Emergency group (or different groups) simply plugs in the proper PL tone for that group and activates them. As it is now with full PL tone access required with most repeaters this kills this type of operation. This makes 2-meter repeaters worthless for on call amateur radio Emergency operation services. You know, that service that went away when you toned your repeater. We have a local group that simply went to Cell phones when the last local repeater went to tone access. Now when any Emergency group member calls one number all the Cell phones in the group rings. The local 911 services also has the ability to call the group in an Emergency which would have required an Emergency group member to call 911 or have a licensed radio amateur on duty at the 911 service station 24/7. I have never missed leaving 2 meters and never plan on using that band in the future. Also get ready to see most of your club members leave and no one use the repeater right after you tone it out.

[kr4bd]

I have a very low profile 222 mHz repeater and my understanding is that SERA wants tones on 222 repeaters as well. #I have NEVER had a problem with interference even when the band opens. #Around Central Kentucky, there are only a handful of repeaters on 222 and most of them are not high profile. #

I pose this question:

If EVERYTHING is toned, how do visitors driving through an area deal with this? #I know that trying to program tones on many rigs while driving is a risky business. #Not only will programming tones be dangerous, but it will also greatly reduce the ability of mobile stations to use repeaters while traveling outside their local areas. #What if there is an emergency and a station is "toned out"?. #I think that tones should ONLY BE CONSIDERED, not REQUIRED, in cases of stubborn and constant interference. #

But then, I have to ask the question, if there is so much interference, who is responsible for the coordinating? #

Sounds like a case of closing the barn door after the cows have left the building! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Tom, KR4BD

[af4tz]

Running tone squelch or dcs doesn't completely eliminate interference between repeaters, especially during band openings. If a distant station captures your receiver and overrides a local signal, it just won't come up at all since it's not hearing the local station tone. Then they'll think the repeater's broken. I have some repeaters running PL and I don't oppose it, if it's needed. I just don't believe it should be mandated by voluntary frequency coordinators. If it's to be mandated, let it come from the FCC and be Nationwide. I think SERA has stepped out of bounds with this one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[WL7LZ]

Quote[/b] (KC0NPF @ Aug. 29 2004,18:43)]I just posted something similar on eham, Why not make a standard when repeaters announce their own tone? Our unit is a 'smart' machine that has a voice IDer on the half hour that announces the 100hz tone. Why not impliment that?


my 2/10 of a cent worth,

KC0NPF
<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:OCR A EXTENDED'>146.970 in Colorado Springs, Colorado does this.
Its a wide coverage machine in the mountains west of Colorado Springs and its footprint extends to the Wyoming border NORTH, Just about to Kansas EAST, New Mexico Border SOUTH, .... west I am uncertain.

As far as interference goes... WHY NOT ADD A DECODE as well. 97 sends its tone out as well. I put TSQ on to keep local pagers from interferring in my mobile rig.

Mark
WL7LZ</span></span></span>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kf4hou]

I didn't get to read everyone opions on the matter but, kinda ina hurry but , i will stick my 2 cents worth in here ..
I might be talking out of foolishness but, Does SERA work with hams ? as in listening to the majority of hams or is it a dictactorship of abt 7 people making desicions for the majority of hams. And Also What about the non toned radios and emergency traffic remeber emergency traffic is priorty traffic nothing should hinder emergency traffic. IF all repeaters had to be toned what simple way are they going to allow emergency traffic to get thru a repeater and secondly who is paying for all this mandated upgrades ? owners/clubs etc. is SERA going to help people be able to upgrade? And another point to make if RF is already there is going to be there with a tone also. when your squelch is opened you will still here the repeater down the road abt 200 miles away almost daily. and another thing to remeber People users cause input interference if they are bringing up 3 machines then they might be in the wrong. i know a few cases myself i could get into 3 repeaters with abt 10 watts with 7 dbi vertical on some repeaters pairs. But i know i should not get on top of a mountain and just start talking into local machine because i will bring up a half of dozen in the process just dont make good sense to me to bring up many repeaters and knowing it !! This idea of putting CTCSS or DCS tones on all machine seems to be a real rash desicion and not thought out to much . When that emergency traffic doesnt get thru or if the guy has to look up a repeater tone and come to find out they changed the tone in a process of couple of minutes could cost someone life and isn't there some kinda libality issue here for SERA to be directly sued ?
WELL WELL WELL maybe us tennessee hams need to withdraw from SERA and make the TRA tennessee repeater association hi hi And remeber us poor little hams here dont have much money

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (kf4hou @ Aug. 28 2004,22:01)]IF all repeaters had to be toned what simple way are they going to allow emergency traffic to get thru a repeater and secondly who is paying for all this mandated upgrades ? owners/clubs etc. is SERA going to help people be able to upgrade? And another point to make if RF is already there is going to be there with a #tone also. when your squelch is opened you will still here the repeater down the road abt 200 miles away almost daily. and another thing to remeber People users cause input interference if they are bringing up 3 machines then they might be in the wrong. i know a few cases myself i could get into 3 repeaters with abt 10 watts with 7 dbi vertical on some repeaters pairs. But i know i should not get on top of a mountain and just start talking into #local machine because i will bring up a half of dozen in the process just dont make good sense to me to bring up many repeaters and knowing it !! #This idea of putting CTCSS or DCS tones on all machine seems to be a real rash desicion and not thought out to much . When that emergency traffic doesnt get thru or if the guy has to look up a repeater tone and come to find out they changed the tone in a process of couple of minutes could cost someone life and isn't there some kinda libality issue here for SERA to be directly sued ?
WELL WELL WELL maybe us tennessee hams need to withdraw from SERA and make the TRA tennessee repeater association hi hi And remeber us poor little hams here dont have much money
Why would using "tone" on the repeater's input keep you from passing emergency traffic? The point is to use the same tone through out a given geographic location. You will know what tone to use because it will be the same tone as every repeater in that area. If you don't know what the tone is, you can look it up in the repeater guide or use tone scan on your radio to figure it out for your self.

Again, why is this such a big deal? You don't HAVE to use tone on your repeater. You would only have to use it if you want coordination.

(Keep in mind, I am no SERA cheerleader. The organization may be in better shape since I attempted to get coordination. Maybe I will get in contact with them again and see if they will finish the paperwork I sent them a couple of years ago.)

[n7oey]

I think that SERA has the correct idea although i also
think it is time for the amateur community to get together and push the major manufactures to move on up with technology. That technology being trunking such as LTR,Motorola TYPE I,II,IIi. This would be the answer to most not all but most of the problems amateur's deal with today as the 2m,440 bands get more and more users. Also another semi-solution would be to place more
repeaters on 220 and also force icom,kenwood...etc to
produce more 220 radio's at an affordable price. Currently
Alinco has a 220 rig out but its price is almost 2x the
price as its 2m twin. I personally like CTCSS and DPL
its really nice but its old technology and i think its time
to move on. So you may ask is trunking leagal in the
amateur band...well its a grey area but not considered illegal!!. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ok now flame away!!! 73's http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n9kb]

What is next? #I think we will need a tone coordinator. #

The decision on the use of PL receive ought to be made the by the repeater owner/operator. #We have a local situation here where two coordinated repeaters are too close together. #Both use the same (standard for the are) PL. #PL did not fix anything in this case.

PL is OK, but should not be required. # #

As long as we are dictating the rules, I also like the suggestion that all PL receive repeaters be required to transmit that PL tone information (verbally or in CW) along with their id. # Also they should have to transmit that id every 10 minutes. #Without the PL information I can not key up the repeater to hear the id. # How is that for added congestion of the frequency?. # # #

This sounds to me like more big government (self appointed in this case) #dictating what we should do. # While they are at it maybe SERA could levy some kind of tax and redistribute some wealth (after they take their cut of course.) #

I sure hope no one gets the same bright idea in this area. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[W4FBI]

The Only bad thing about this is the Traveling Ham. Needing help or needing info in the area. and driving down the Road these days and trying to do a code tone search on that little radio is not safe. Very Poor Ideal for SERA to do this with out asking first. I Feel they dont have the right to do this. So I will not Re-New with them this Dec. will no long support them. its only $10. but if every body pulls there anual $10 they might ask next time. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kf4hou]

Quote[/b] ]Why would using "tone" on the repeater's input keep you from passing emergency traffic? The point is to use the same tone through out a given geographic location. You will know what tone to use because it will be the same tone as every repeater in that area. If you don't know what the tone is, you can look it up in the repeater guide or use tone scan on your radio to figure it out for your self.

Thats the bad thing about it ,if 3 repeaters are in the same town they will all have different tones .I dont know what the survey says about who all has DCS caplaible radios or not but, there is still alot of radio out there with no DCS or CTCSS. i know one guy thats does alot of emergency traffic he doesnt even have a toned radio, not all of us have toned radio like it or not still a potential of someone not being able to get into a repeater if they had a emergency and i have seen in alot of cases owners change "tones" to try to keep out like pager interference so, if they told SERA it is toned at 100.0 the next week it might be on 103.5 tone because they found some problems and that book does no good for a emergency or a traveling ham and heck i have a $1000 dollar radio that cant scan output tones http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Please go to and check out some very interesting emails and some poll figures of what alot of Hams in the SERA area believe in. www.wm4t.com

I'm am not here to critize all things SERA does but i like the idea of more advanced technolgy to save band space and easy of flow of information with out ,in my mind going backwards.

Quote[/b] ]
The SERA Board voted to require tone (CTCSS or DCS) - both on transmit and receive - on all new coordinations, and on existing repeaters by July, 2006. #CP&G "Policy 17" got some fine tuning as coordinators prepare to purge the paper. #The Georgia District has a test on-line Form-3 coordination application, new Assistant Directors in Georgia and Tennessee, and a new Associate Editor for the Repeater Journal - Chris Plumblee KG4CZU.



Not just for coordinations BUT ALL repeaters in SERA area

SERA discussions and Polls link (www.wm4te.com)

[wa6itf]

Funny. Waty back in 1978 -- when I was still writing the "Looking West" FM/repeater column for 73 Magazine I predicted that this would happen by 1998. Well I was off by 6 years but it has now transpired.

To address some issues raided: First off, CTCSS (the proper name for "PL") does not a closed or private repeater make. It is "attitude" on the part of an owner and/or user group that does this. CTCSS is only one possible mechanical device to that end.

As far as the "visitor" or "traveling ham,: unless he/she bought their radio in the 1960's, 1970's or early 1980's, it has a CTCSS tone generator or generator/decoder built in. There really is no excuse not to be able to access CTCSS systems as long as the CTCSS tone is published.

Folks -- this is not the 1970's. It is 2004 and while using antiquated analoh techbology, the SERA plan makes sense from a frequency coordinators standpoint. And I know this first hand as I served as one -- on both sides of the USA -- from the late '60's through the middle 1980's.

For those of you who do not have a proper understanding of what CTCSS is and how it is properly used, might I suggest you check to see if your local library has a copy of "The Practical Handbook of Amateur Radio FM and Repeaters" written by this "scribe" and Michael Morris WA6ILQ. It is TAB book #1212 and while out of print the technology and radioo psychology there-in will make the use of CTCSS understandable -- if not "politically palitable."

One last item: One poster asked what next? Well a decade or more ago there was a discussion among several large repeater groups in the North-Easty of requesting coordinators "assign users" to specific repeaters. Maybe it was in jest, but I kind of doubt that any coordinator would ever be so stupid as to even consider such.

de
Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF

[w7sta]

Your reply sounds condescending as we all know what CTCSS is. I've often stated that confirmity kills experimentation. If we wrap ourselves in regulations and requirements, we lose our ability to experiment. Those of us who cherish experimentation will move onto other hobbies.

personal opinion follows..

IF SERA tries to 'delist' a repeater from active coordination simply because the repeater owner CHOOSES NOT to 'PL' ('tone', CTCSS, CG, or whatever acronym or initals you like to use http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif ) their machine

AND they choose to LIVE with whatever happens to come upon the input of THEIR machine...

AND (prior to the SERA 'dictate') they had ZERO **REAL** interference issues with any other co-channel machine..

AND SERA then tries to strong-arm them into complying by threatening 'delisting' and 'decoordination'.. then SERA is going to have a distinct problem.

I can tell you that SOME repeater owner or Club is going to decide to spend the time and money to press the point in court based on the principle of the issue.

They are going to contest the concept that an unelected body of individuals can FORCE, by dictate and fiat, other independent entities to adapt when no such authority exist for them to do so.

Yes, the FCC may (and I mean 'MAY') get involved, but I suspect they will try to have the parties work it out.

If you lived through the 'repeater wars' or the 'packet VS FM repeaters wars' or 'the in-high, out-low' and '20 kHz vs 15 kHz wars' you KNOW what I'm talking about..

I did and let me tell you, it was NOT pretty. There are MANY folks, currently licensed and operating TODAY who were unfairly and adversly affected by dictates and mandates by fiat that were thrust upon them without proper coordination or debate.

THEY still harbor very bad feelings and some STILL look for ways to legally impact things by skirting the rules 'just close enough to the edge' but no so close as to be cited or in violation.

Trust me. if this spreads.. without proper coordination and debate amongst those affected by it.. you will see MORE dissension and problems.

My own thoughts were 'why not do a decent survey (over time) and find out WHAT kinds of ACTUAL operation (official term 'loading') and activity is ACTUALLY ongoing in the repeaters in the SERA area?

Bet you will find that MANY machines lie fallow and unused MANY hours of the day and week.

Working to reallocate frequencies to those machines that ARE active and utilized with lesser used machines being redistributed makes MORE sense than a dictate from the Star Chamber and leading by fiat.

K3FT

It will NOT be pretty.

[KC0NPF]

Quote[/b] (WL7LZ @ Aug. 29 2004,21:08)]<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:OCR A EXTENDED'>146.970 in Colorado Springs, Colorado does this.
Its a wide coverage machine in the mountains west of Colorado Springs and its footprint extends to the Wyoming border NORTH, Just about to Kansas EAST, New Mexico Border SOUTH, .... west I am uncertain.

As far as interference goes... WHY NOT ADD A DECODE as well. 97 sends its tone out as well. I put TSQ on to keep local pagers from interferring in my mobile rig.

Mark
WL7LZ</span></span></span>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
I believe I talked on that machine recently as I was on vacation! Excellent machine, and yes I did hear the tone information go out.

[N5RLR]

My opininated ramblings:

From a technical standpoint, CTCSS-access is doable. #There is hardly a VHF FM rig that has been made in the last twenty or so years that doesn't have CTCSS, either built-in or as an option. #And even then, if one has an older radio without it, there are aftermarket tone-boards that will enable one to at least transmit a tone.

From a regulatory standpoint, SERA seemingly is beginning to tread into the FCC's territory.

Quote[/b] ]<span style='color:red'>...SERA has no plans to automatically decoordinate repeaters that continue to operate without tones, but "SERA would not entertain an interference complaint from the owner of any repeater who chooses to remain carrier access," the Repeater Journal said. If a carrier-access repeater owner getting co-channel interference complains to the FCC, SERA would tell the Commission that the complaining repeater's owner was opting to operate outside the conditions of coordination. "SERA would expect that to be interpreted as a 'no,'" the Repeater Journal report said.

"If a repeater owner wants to complain about interference, they'll have to incorporate tone first," Pearce said.</span>
To coin a phrase, who died and left them king? #Don't get me wrong...no one likes interference, malicious or accidental. #But I hardly think SERA should be trying to dictate rules or policy, when it is a private organization. #Personally, I've never really liked the idea of private organizations coordinating repeaters [I've seen the ego trips that occur, and what I saw wasn't pretty].

Overall...if I were running a repeater, I'd rather have CTCSS suggested as an aid to combat co-channel interference, not because some self-appointed yoyo commands me to use it.

Just my opinion... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[n4cqw]

Sorry guy’s but this is my two cents worth…..

These guys are full of CRAP! It’s amazing how people who need to be in touch with everyone are so far out of it they live in the next galaxy. Come on guy’s do your job you volunteered for! It amazes me to go look at the meeting minutes see the “crap” that they put out…. Something this big on rates this piece off work! Display the whole conversion or are they afraid too?

http://www.sera.org/meet0604.htm

“EXPLORING FUTURE AUXILIARY OPERATION ON TWO METERS: Steve Grantham presented his thoughts on auxiliary operations on the two meter band. He reminded us that we all have had problems with in band linking and/or remote base operations. He had previously started an e-mail thread about this topic and said we need to think about what position we are going to take in the future. There was lively and lengthy discussion from just about all present. Steve offered a motion that “we require the use of CTCSS/DCS on both transmit and receive on all new FM voice repeater coordinations, effective June 13, 2004, and any existing FM voice repeater that is in operation now must utilize full time CTCSS/DCS on both transmit and receive by July 01, 2006.” Seconded by Terry Jones, the motion passed unanimously.

Dick Fowler remarked that a notice should be inserted in the forthcoming datasheet mailing that contains the Policy 17 revision and a notice of our new official position on CTCSS/DCS use adding that any interference complaint, that involves a situation where CTCSS or DCS is not in use, will not be considered for review by the SERA. Alex noted that the Policy 17 insert was a matter included in the motion made by Andy. There was a general consensus by the staff present that the additional information concerning CTCSS/DCS should be included in the mailing.”

First off, why was this issue not posted for all to see instead of an email? You would figure that these are “best and the brightest” doing their jobs? Gee, it looks like all they want to do make more money! First off if you get right down to it they want to do this so they have more repeaters in the same area…. Encode / Decode. But think about it if you will….. Who’s going to regulate the power that stations run? SERA or the FCC? I have a prim example…. Here in Tennessee we a very nice repeater that covers the Knoxville area really well…. But we can’t use it because of a “HAM” in Virginia that runs 160 watts just to talk to “his” local machine. So we said fine and went out purchased a set of corner beams, co-phased them and put them on the tower with the rear of the beams aimed at Virginia. Then we toned our repeater and had it transmit the tone out also so we decode the repeater and not hear the Virginia machine (both are SERA coordinated). That was a rather large waste of money…. It worked great till he keyed up….. Then he overrode our signal with the tone and still terrorized the repeater… So that does not work… well the makers of amps will befit…. (more money) The more power up to 1500 watts you can have you might be able to talk to the machine you can see on the hill.

Another thing what about an emergency? If you don’t have the latest “SERA” journal (more money) you will not have the latest info…. Well the latest that hasn’t changed the previous day. The bigger joke is the ARRL repeater director it’s printed every year (more money) so that is about useless more than it is now, if you travel your uup the creek. Thank about the risk that they are taking…. I am net control operator for the East Tennessee area aka www.etskywarn.net we had a very destructive tornado a couple of years ago in an area called Mossy Grove. It took just about everything; the ONLY communication in and out was ham radio. The local radio system was out and what worked was over loaded or was not cross compatible. We all went to the repeaters that covered that area… one was toned and the others were not. The one that was toned had the toned removed to help. We used that repeater for days….. Just like now it is toned, but he turns the tone off just in case the primary repeater is taken out we can still use his as a back up during Skywarn events. According to what I have see if you turn off the tone and have interference tough cookie’s… If your traveling to an event and you don’t know the tone what are going to do? How can you risk the valuable seconds it will take for everyone to reprogram their radio’s? What about borrowed equipment…? If the user is not familiar with the radio, then what do you do…? Who wants stand up and say someone died because I can’t program a tone into an unfamiliar radio…? Get back in touch with the rest of the world!

I guess my last topic… then I will get down off the soap box…. It’s amazing who people can make such a decision that affects everyone but can not take the time to do mundane part of their jobs…. Example I have sent my manager 14 emails with no replays, no read receipt acknowledgement, and then tried to fax him several times, and I even called and left voice messages and still not a word back. I started this little ordeal back along the time frame of late May to early June this year. He has time to go to the meeting but I can’t have a simple email, fax or phone call back to answer my questions! This is prime example off of lack of account ability…. In my humble opinion on this we should tell SERA to take a flying leap off a very BIG cliff and I hope they hit every branch on the way down. Between them and the ARRL they making this “hobby” in to something that is nothing but a money racket with no accountability to anyone but them selves. People fuss about code / no-code need to open up their eyes and see the writing on the wall that this, THIS is more of a threat to the hobby than that will ever be..... It looks like SERA is now in bed with BPL…. Stop and think about it Encode / Decode…… WRITING IS ON THE WALL!

73, hope to hear you on six meters….. oh BTW when are they going to tone that?

Moe KE4CQW always listening on 50.150 usb

[K4JSR]

K3FT sed, "K3FT... It will NOT be pretty."

Chuckster, I disagree. It is going to be PRETTY UGLY

I can remember a time when an even more basic fuss
than the 15/20 kHz spacing issue and the Packet issue.
Remember when the FCC opened the 147 MHz portion of
2 meters to repeater operation? I do! There are still some older than me farts(uglier, too! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ) who are still
operating Cleggs and other rigs that wouldn't go to the +
600 repeater shift! Some of those folks got plumb teeth-
grinding angry over that issue. They ain't over it yet!
Why, just the other day I went to the cemetery to put flowers on my mother's grave. An old ham buddy of mine
is buried just a short distance away in that cemetery.
He and I had argued until his dying day about that issue. My wife said to me as we approached my old friend's grave, "Do you hear that sound? It is like teeth
grinding coming from the ground." Even though it has
been 28 years since my friend's funeral, I swear that the dirt over his grave is still warm!
So, after everybody has had their fecal hemorrhage over
the issue, which, by the way, is mandatory, everybody
will settle down to whatever the next change is and start
the process all over again! It amazes me that more ham
shack doors don't have quarter moons cut in them at top center! I guess it is because HRO and AES catalog pages
are too danged brittle! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
After all, we ain't hams unless we have upset bowels
and our panties are in a knot! Personally, I think it is all
a John Kerry plot! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

73, whether you want 'em or not! Cal K4JSR http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Bug Tussle, Georgia

PS. If you have read this epistle to this point, may I add a small reminder that the Great Shelby, NC Hamfest
is this next Saturday and Sunday. SERA always has had
a contingent of representatives there. Come stomp on
those poor blokes there...Bring Golf shoes for stomping and a good set of walking shoes, also. Shelby is one of
the best hamfests going. Nice, big boneyard. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (w7sta @ Aug. 30 2004,10:44)]Your reply sounds condescending as we all know what CTCSS is. I've often stated that confirmity kills experimentation. If we wrap ourselves in regulations and requirements, we lose our ability to experiment. Those of us who cherish experimentation will move onto other hobbies.
Don't be so sure. You would be suprised how many of the neo-hams have no idea what you are talking about. There's a shocking number of slightly older hams that are making an issue of this. I can't believe this is even an issue in the 21st century. We are just talking about applying 1960's technology to earlier 1960's technology. I have ALWAYS used CTCSS encode and decode on all my repeaters (ok, so that's only two), and I know a lot of the other operators would like to, because it reduces noise and squelch management problems almost 100%. The reason they don't is the users complain about it. I seriously doubt the SERA implemented this without at least talking to several, if not a majority of repeater owners. Not users, but owners. It's long, long past due.

Second, it's been said, but tell me who has marketed a store-bought radio in the last 20 years that doesn't at least have tone encode? If you don't know how to program a tone in your radio, I seriously doubt that this ruling will curtail your latatude of experimentation.

Three. SERA can't force you to do anything. You aren't required to coordinate a repeater. BUT, if you cause interference with a coordinated system, the FCC will dump on YOU. All they are saying, if you don't meet full coordination requirements, both carrier and tone frequencies, then you aren't coordinated. No one complains when they assign you a frequency pair to use, your rights aren't infringed then, right? So pick a tone, put it on the paper, and get over it. Or take your chances. Depending on where you are, it may never be an issue.

This rant was not directed at any specific individual

[n3eop]

Some people are in such a deep rut that they can't even see over the top of it anymore.

Let's see... SERA wants all repeaters toned. #If an untoned system gets interference, it's basically their own problem.

Simple solution that I've seen done at quite a few repeaters across the country... Establish a tone freq for the system. #When interference acts up, turn it on. #When interference goes away, turn it off. #Regular users simply transmit tone all the time; they don't even know if the repeater needs it or not, unless the courtesy tone changes or some such.

Another system went about it differently. #They were up on top of a mountain co-sited with a broadcaster. #Their main antenna was at the top of the tower, and could hear just about everything within a few hundred miles. #When the wind blew in the right direction, they would get users from machines in other states.

Obviously, they needed PL, but didn't want to lock out travelers.

So, they put up a Ringo on the shack roof to its own (open) receiver, and used a simple circuit to use whichever receiver was active.

One interesting side note... when the band really opened up, the locals would turn OFF their own tones; they were heard better through the lower antenna.

As for the "emergency nets" that use a different PL... it's no big deal to add a second encoder in the TX audio line that can be switched in and out remotely. #Need to rally the troops? #A couple of DTMF tones and you're talking to them.

[K4JF]

This ruling is totally and completely wrong!!! 1) It is out of line to close formerly open repeaters to travelers (and that is exactly what this will do) You can't travel in the northeast or midwest and talk to local hams because they all have tones on the repeaters, and it is nigh impossible to encode any modern transciever to tones while on the road. The methods are well hidden in the manual and are not easy to set on the fly. The only way is to look them up and program them in advance. Who is going to do that? and how do you know even which ones will be active? ... and this is assuming you have a 5-year-old or newer rig!!
2) as for the "60s technology" argument, pardon me but bravo sierra. Many rigs produced in the mid-90s do NOT have tone encoders. I personally own 5 two-meter rigs and only 2 have tone capability. They are obsoleting my magnificent (and expensive) TS-790A in my main station. The 2m rig in my sailboat is similarly obsoleted. And I will be off Packet, bcause that rig does not have tones (never needed it). Only the TM-V7A and an old backup TS-711A have tone, and the latter only because a prior owner had installed the optional board. The '790 does not have tone and no tone board is available for it.
For a retiree, you are talking a significant cost to replace numerous rigs - for no valid reason.
The use of a tone, and the need for it - if existing - should be the provence of the individual repeater owner, not some non-representative regulators.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,12:52)]Second, it's been said, but tell me who has marketed a store-bought radio in the last 20 years that doesn't at least have tone encode?
There are quite a few - including Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu... #How long a list do you want?

[k4uug]

Quote[/b] (n4fv @ Aug. 28 2004,11:05)]This is my response to the recent SERA policy that was passed to require CTCSS tone on all repeaters by July 1, 2006. #The ARRL has posted a short story at this website. #http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/27/3/?nc=1

The issue of requiring CTCSS on all 2-meter repeaters is a very controversial one. #SERA is claiming they want to do it to reduce interference complaints. #This is not a valid reason as a CTCSS decoder will only let the signal it is receiving with the correct tone key the repeater transmitter and rebroadcast that signal. #IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE ON FREQUENCY INTEFERENCE from intermod, spurious signals, or other users not transmitting the proper CTCSS tone. #Any signal that is not CTCSS encoded with the proper tone on the repeater receiver input frequency is going to require a stronger signal with the proper tone encoded on it in order to capture the receiver and open the tone squelch. # #Does this sound like a good reason to require it? #The only advantage to SERA in requiring all 2 meter repeaters have CTCSS decoders on their receivers is they will be able to coordinate repeaters much closer together under the pretense that users of repeater systems A and B will not be keying each other’s repeaters. #

Station X might be 75 miles away from repeater A and talking on repeater B which is 25 miles away from station X. #Station X’s signal at repeater A might be strong enough to keep low power station Y from capturing the receiver on repeater A and prevent use of repeater A to low power station Y. #Station Y makes a call, the repeater does not key up, and station Y thinks the repeater is experiencing problems and QSY’s to another frequency. # Or another scenario where station Y is in QSO and suddenly his signals are gone from repeater A and the only time anyone can hear him is when station X is not transmitting. # Someone is going to say station X should hear repeater A and realize he is causing problems. #That’s not true if station X has his tone squelch turned on so he doesn’t have to listen to repeater A when monitoring repeater B. #

As a 2 meter repeater owner and trustee, the only reason I am currently running CTCSS is to eliminate the key ups of my repeater that are caused by the various commercial services, TV stations, and paging transmitters that are not very clean on the mountain where my radios are located. # It gets pretty annoying to have the repeater key up constantly on noise spikes or bursts when you are trying to monitor it many hours each day. #Does this eliminate the interference? No! #It just masks the problem. #

Gary Pearce KN4AQ in his column Squelch Tails even goes so far as to explain the same things to the repeater users but then passes it off as an acceptable evil and says he has no sympathy for you if you can’t program your new radio, won’t retire your old radio, or “too cheap” to replace your old radio. #Gary, I have no sympathy for SERA Repeater Journal for loss in revenue from memberships and sales from all the hams that are cheap or can’t program their radio easily.

What really galls me is the fact that SERA passed a new policy with absolutely no input from either owners or trustees and then said if you don’t comply, we will tell Riley Hollingsworth if he enquires as to your status that #“the owner chose to operate their repeater outside the conditions of coordination by not using tone access. #SERA would interpret that as a no.” #We all know what this means as Mr. Hollingsworth has made many amateurs remove their repeaters from the air that were not in compliance with the local coordinating body. #

There are many other reasons supporting the decision not to require mandatory tone access such as travelers or use during a emergency. # Whether you support or oppose the mandatory tone requirement, please go to http://www.wm4t.com/sera and vote. #If you would like to email your SERA state director or other SERA officials to voice your opinion, you can visit http://www.sera.org to obtain their contact information.

Bobby Gass N4FV
n4fv@yahoo.com
The way I see it you should have up to date equipment not a bunch of old junk crystal sets.If you want to use that old junk fine just add a tone device to it.!Now if we could just take away repeater pairs from those who only have them on paper and have never had the thing on the air in the first place. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N6TZ]

Why does this come up now?
The repeaters are all but totally dead in this part of the country.
15 years ago was a different story, and there was more use and more interference back then.
I say skip it, No SERA - - but "que sera, sera"
Hal, N6TZ

[N6TZ]

Why does this come up now?
The repeaters are all but totally dead in this part of the country.
15 years ago was a different story, and there was more use and more interference back then.
I say skip it, No SERA - - but "que sera, sera"
Hal, N6TZ

[WB6DGN]

K9LTR,
Who would coordinate the ID's required for each and every radio to access a trunked system? While efficient in a commercial or government system, it is not appropriate technology for amateur use.
73 Tom KB5DPE

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (kf4hou @ Aug. 29 2004,03:49)]Quote[/b] ]Why would using "tone" on the repeater's input keep you from passing emergency traffic? The point is to use the same tone through out a given geographic location. You will know what tone to use because it will be the same tone as every repeater in that area. If you don't know what the tone is, you can look it up in the repeater guide or use tone scan on your radio to figure it out for your self.

Thats the bad thing about it ,if 3 repeaters are in the same town they will all have different tones
If they are on different pairs, they should all be on the same CTCSS/DCS because they are in the same geographic area.

If they are on the same pair, two of them shouldn't have been coordinated in the first place.

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (KB5DPE @ Aug. 29 2004,18:46)]K9LTR,
Who would coordinate the ID's required for each and every radio to access a trunked system? #While efficient in a commercial or government system, it is not appropriate technology for amateur use.
73 Tom KB5DPE
The system owner.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 30 2004,18:10)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,12:52)]Second, it's been said, but tell me who has marketed a store-bought radio in the last 20 years that doesn't at least have tone encode?
There are quite a few - including Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu... #How long a list do you want?
How long can you make it? Other than some Alinco models, which sold the DECODE board optional (enocde was included) the last 15-20 years, you'll be hard pressed. And don't quote your TS-790. Check out keypad button #2. What does it say on it? TONE? That's your CTCSS control, unless you have the E version, which did the 1750 burst for Europe. You can change some diode programming around to conform with CTCSS, even on the E model. Far from obsolete.

I travel a great deal, and I have never had a problem accessing an open repeater. Most of them will announce the required tone in the ID, but all of them are printed in the repeater guide. Nine bucks, published once a year. If you have a radio made in the last 10 years, it will search the tone frequency (assuming the repeater is transmitting tone, most do) and tell you what it is. I would never admit that I couldn't talk on a repeater because it required tone.

[K4TAX]

A couple of things to keep in mind........
(a) SERA is the FCC recognized agency for coordinating repeaters in their coverage states. In essence, they make the rules as long as they stay within FCC regulations. If for effective frequency usage, SERA says repeaters should/must use tone then so be it. Should one complain to the FCC about interference, the FCC will default to SERA for problem resolution.

(b) The biggest advantage to tone is on the user's receiver. To a lesser extent the repeater receiver which will most likely not be keyed with skip/band opening. For most that monitor repeaters extensively, tone will keep the unwanted signals out of the receiver. Most consider a signal that they don't want to hear as classified as interference.

Finally, and last but certainly not least:

&copy; Ham radio is only a hobby. Don't forget it. Lets keep it that way by using what frequency spectrum we have being used effectively.

I listen to and hear most of the repeaters in Knoxville and Nashville and points in between. They burp, squeal, belch and such with random key-ups which would be avoided if they were toned. Those with tone are quiet unless a user comes on frequency.

Bottom line, I support tone on all repeaters.


73
Bob, K4TAX

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,21:05)]Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 30 2004,18:10)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,12:52)]Second, it's been said, but tell me who has marketed a store-bought radio in the last 20 years that doesn't at least have tone encode?
There are quite a few - including Kenwood, Icom, Yaesu... #How long a list do you want?
How long can you make it? Other than some Alinco models, which sold the DECODE board optional (enocde was included) the last 15-20 years, you'll be hard pressed. And don't quote your TS-790. Check out keypad button #2. What does it say on it? TONE? That's your CTCSS control, unless you have the E version, which did the 1750 burst for Europe. You can change some diode programming around to conform with CTCSS, even on the E model. Far from obsolete.

I travel a great deal, and I have never had a problem accessing an open repeater. Most of them will announce the required tone in the ID, but all of them are printed in the repeater guide. Nine bucks, published once a year. If you have a radio made in the last 10 years, it will search the tone frequency (assuming the repeater is transmitting tone, most do) and tell you what it is. I would never admit that I couldn't talk on a repeater because it required tone.
I should add to not to use keypad 5 if you don't have the decode board installed, but it will encode fine. (TS-790)

[n8pik]

they should leave this one up to the fcc not
sera, pl has worked for us, but saying for everyone.:cool:

[n8pik]

just sounds like like sera wants to run the show, let the FCC do this. 73Walt n8pik:0

[WB6DGN]

ke4pjw,
True, this would work for an exclusive group. The traveler would be locked out without a hope of accessing the system, as would be the non-clubmember. My greatest joy on ham radio is meeting NEW people. Please don't support technology that locks out newcomers. That' unhamlike(I invented a new word!!!).
73 Tom KB5DPE

[KC5OU]

Greetings all, our local 2 meter machine went with CTCSS
several years ago due to people DXing the 147.06 machine in Dallas and another one east of Tulsa during inversions. Our poor repeater got booped and beeped to death. There was some teeth gnashing but most people had tone capable radios anyway. Those that didn't could punch in 2 numbers on the DTMF pad to disable the PL for a set time. If you didn't have a touch tone pad I offered to install a Comspec tone board if the owner would buy it. Most people used it as an excuse to buy a new radio...hee hee. We also have the RC-85 repeater controller give the tone 141.3 every 10 minutes. This sure cut down the kerchunkity- kerchuntity's. Ken KC5OU
PS our club's repeater is and will always be open.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (K4TAX @ Aug. 30 2004,21:15)]A couple of things to keep in mind........ #
(a) SERA is the FCC recognized agency for coordinating repeaters in their coverage states. #In essence, they make the rules as long as they stay within FCC regulations. #If for effective frequency usage, SERA says repeaters should/must use tone then so be it. #Should one complain to the FCC about interference, the FCC will default to SERA for problem resolution.

(b) The biggest advantage to tone is on the user's receiver. #To a lesser extent the repeater receiver which will most likely not be keyed with skip/band opening. #For most that monitor repeaters extensively, tone will keep the unwanted signals out of the receiver. #Most consider a signal that they don't want to hear as classified as interference.

Finally, and last but certainly not least:

© #Ham radio is only a hobby. #Don't forget it. #Lets keep it that way by using what frequency spectrum we have being used effectively.

I listen to and hear most of the repeaters in Knoxville and Nashville and points in between. #They burp, squeal, belch and such with random key-ups which would be avoided if they were toned. #Those with tone are quiet unless a user comes on frequency.

Bottom line, I support tone on all repeaters. #


73
Bob, K4TAX
Good point, Bob. Another thing along that vein, a repeater with carrier squelch will have the squelch adjusted much tighter to account for and reduce that type of "breakthrough", which in effect reduces the range of the repeater by reducing the effective sensitivity of the repeater's receiver. By using CTCSS, the COR doesn't key on the squelch gate (or shouldn't), so the squelch can be quite sloppy, allowing for the repeater to key only when the proper tone is decoded. This would occur at a MUCH lessor signal level than possible using CS. Now, in the real world, COR is a combination of tone and squelch, but it still allows for a much more sensitive system since noise bursts do not effect the repeater transmitter.

By the way, if there IS anyone on here that has a "classic" antique radio that they can't part with, check out http://www.com-spec.com for a $28 encode board that will allow you access to any CTCSS repeater. And yes, CTCSS has been a staple in the commercial radio industry for 50 years. Anyone remember the big, brass Motorola Vibrasenders and Vribrasponders? Tuning forks on a coil, basically. Wasn't hard to excite them just by hitting a bump in the road. Thank God we don't have to deal with those any longer!

[kj4si]

Hey let us understand the main issue is being forced to tone by a group that should do as the members ask,not by what they think will make their job easier.
let the repeater owner make his decision

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (KB5DPE @ Aug. 29 2004,19:22)]ke4pjw,
True, this would work for an exclusive group. #The traveler would be locked out without a hope of accessing the system, as would be the non-clubmember. #My greatest joy on ham radio is meeting NEW people. #Please don't support technology that locks out newcomers. #That' unhamlike(I invented a new word!!!).
73 Tom KB5DPE
I don't know the specifics of the various trunking specifications, so let me pick your brain for a moment :)

Can you configure the radios and/or the controller in such a way that the radio can access a "public" trunking group? It just seems like there should be some way to allow for "roaming".

Just curious is this could be done.

I don't see trunking, CTCSS, DCS, POCSAG, FLEX or any other type of signaling technology as an exclusionary technology. Getting on the radio and gabbing is nice, but to me, learning how to make it work and how to make it work well is the thrill.

If I every won the lottery, I think I would just have to put up a four channel tunking system ;) Any ham wanting to use it would be welcome to.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (ke4pjw @ Aug. 30 2004,21:58)]Quote[/b] (KB5DPE @ Aug. 29 2004,19:22)]ke4pjw,
True, this would work for an exclusive group. #The traveler would be locked out without a hope of accessing the system, as would be the non-clubmember. #My greatest joy on ham radio is meeting NEW people. #Please don't support technology that locks out newcomers. #That' unhamlike(I invented a new word!!!).
73 Tom KB5DPE
I don't know the specifics of the various trunking specifications, so let me pick your brain for a moment http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Can you configure the radios and/or the controller in such a way that the radio can access a "public" trunking group? It just seems like there should be some way to allow for "roaming".

Just curious is this could be done.

I don't see trunking, CTCSS, DCS, POCSAG, FLEX or any other type of signaling technology as an exclusionary technology. Getting on the radio and gabbing is nice, but to me, learning how to make it work and how to make it work well is the thrill.

If I every won the lottery, I think I would just have to put up a four channel tunking system ;) Any ham wanting to use it would be welcome to.
The problem with trunking and amateur radio is that trunking is well suited to accomodate many groups that require radio service for short periods of time (like a dispatch). Different groups such as Sherriff, Public Works, Water, Police, and Administrative can be set up on logical "fleets" or groups, and share a pool of repeaters together. By using short messages, they only use a "channel" for a brief period of time, clearing the channel for another group to use. That way, a dozen groups of people can share four or five channels. Statistically, you plan in this case of no more than five groups needing to talk at the same time at any given time, therefore no apparent congestion and everyone gets a channel.

With ham radio, conversations tend to be of long duration, and usually with a group of people participating in the conversation. The "statistical" nature of trunking wouldn't play well in this scenario. A typical exchange for the amateur service could last 30 minutes or longer, dominating a trunked channel. At this point, it offers no benefit over a standalone repeater. Other technologies used in trunking, such as site voting, signalling, digital coding, etc. WOULD be a benefit to the amateur service, but not trunking in itself.

I hope this helps

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,22:14)]That way, a dozen groups of people can share four or five channels.
This doesn't read well. I should have said here that a dozen groups of people can share four or five repeaters. Channels, or fleets/subfleets are logical in a trunked system and can use any repeater at any time.

Sorry

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 29 2004,20:14)]The problem with trunking and amateur radio is that trunking is well suited to accomodate many groups that require radio service for short periods of time (like a dispatch). Different groups such as Sherriff, Public Works, Water, Police, and Administrative can be set up on logical "fleets" or groups, and share a pool of repeaters together. By using short messages, they only use a "channel" for a brief period of time, clearing the channel for another group to use. That way, a dozen groups of people can share four or five channels. Statistically, you plan in this case of no more than five groups needing to talk at the same time at any given time, therefore no apparent congestion and everyone gets a channel.

With ham radio, conversations tend to be of long duration, and usually with a group of people participating in the conversation. The "statistical" nature of trunking wouldn't play well in this scenario. A typical exchange for the amateur service could last 30 minutes or longer, dominating a trunked channel. At this point, it offers no benefit over a standalone repeater. Other technologies used in trunking, such as site voting, signalling, digital coding, etc. WOULD be a benefit to the amateur service, but not trunking in itself.

I hope this helps
Interesting, I would think the channel utilization would be much higher in a shared public safety environment as opposed to a couple of round tables. I guess we will have to implement it to find out http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,18:05)]And don't quote your TS-790. Check out keypad button #2. What does it say on it? TONE? That's your CTCSS control, unless you have the E version, which did the 1750 burst for Europe. You can change some diode programming around to conform with CTCSS, even on the E model. Far from obsolete.
The TS-790A tone board is OPTIONAL, part number TSU-5. The button is there for when you have the board installed. (Check the manual - if you do not have the tone installed the tone button will not operate. Shouldn't that be obvious???) I did not order it, because all the repeaters around here are OPEN. (At least most...)

And for the comment from 6-land, repeaters around here in northern South Carolina are very active - because they do not have tones blocking people out. They are very friendly.

Being retired, I travel a lot. I would like to QSO with local hams when I visit a new area, but it's not even worth taking my TH-22 along anymore.

[AB8RU]

SERA should not have to go to that drastic measures, I believe that the club or private group should decide weather they want to spend the money or not unless SERA is giving free money away to pay the costs of purchasing a CTCSS card or tone panel for every repeater in the country.

I will have to Stongly Oppose Such a decision.

[n4fv]

I have recieved a private message from a SERA official this evening and have declined to respond to it except here in a public forum if it is posted. #

SERA has been a model for other coordinating bodies and you can be sure this controversy is being watched closely. #

73,

Bob N4FV

[AB8RU]

N4FV, FYI, I just sent an email to SERA so I added my comments to their email box, I hope this will help everyone out, may be a loaded HOT Issue but I wish everyone good luck on this one.

Mark AB8RU

[WA4III]

As a repeater owner, I can understand both sides of the arguement. My repeater is in the range of a powerful repeater, but the miles requirement is met, I am getting signals from the repeater that cover up my repeater 25 miles away. I have a 100hz tone access on my repeater, but that don't stop the strong signal from the other one. It would, however, stop the people trying to get into my repeater from keying the other one. They say they will not tone the repeater because some people may not be able to get into their machine. I think the problem is not with tones, but the greedy people sitting on the "paper" repeaters which are not on the air and refuse to give up the frequency. The coordinators should do a better job and limit the number of repeaters to a person or group and if a repeater in not on the air, and the frequency is needed, remove the coordination and re issue it to a person who will use it. I can name you a few such repeaters.

The thing I am against is "closed, or private" repeaters. If a person wants a personal repeater, let him get a license for such a radio system. If only the on-the-air repeaters were coordinated, we would have plenty of frequency pairs.

Also, all States should go to the same channel spacing. This difference causes a big problem between Alabama and Tennessee.

Thanks for listening

Greg WA4III gdwalker@juno.com 256 247 3448

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 29 2004,20:39)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,18:05)]And don't quote your TS-790. Check out keypad button #2. What does it say on it? TONE? That's your CTCSS control, unless you have the E version, which did the 1750 burst for Europe. You can change some diode programming around to conform with CTCSS, even on the E model. Far from obsolete.
The TS-790A tone board is OPTIONAL, part number TSU-5. #The button is there for when you have the board installed. #(Check the manual - if you do not have the tone installed the tone button will not operate. #Shouldn't that be obvious???) #I did not order it, because all the repeaters around here are OPEN. (At least most...)
The TSU-5 is a decoder board. You can still encode CTCSS and access toned repeaters without it.
Quote[/b] ]<a href="http://mods.dk/downloadmanual.php?File=TS-790A_Manual.zip" target="_blank">Page 44 Section 4-7-2 To Open The Tone Squelch of a Distant Station

Even if the optional TSU-5 programmable tone decoder is not installed, your radio can open the Tone Squelch of a distant station.</a>

A repeater having CTCSS has nothing to do with the repeater being "open" or "closed".

SERA has required CTCSS or DCS for coordination of UHF repeaters for years.

SERA only coordinates open repeaters.

[nc4tn]

Frankly, REQUIRING tone is just another hidden, albeit blatant, attempt to create more revenue for the manufacturers; more repeaters....more handie-talkies sold. #If this were a fair world, Ickum, Yazoo, and Kwoodie would be required to pay a subsidization fee to all the repeater owners to help them maintain their "machines". #After all, the big companies are the ones who reap the financial rewards on the backs of the repeater owners, who by law, can't profit financially from their public service endeavors. #It's only the goodwill of the repeater owners and the clubs who maintain repeaters that make VHF/UHF FM what it is today, not the corporations. #

For all you repeater users who think CTCSS/DCS is not a big deal: if you had any idea at all of the financial outlay it takes to operate a repeater, you would be thanking the repeater owner/clubs every day for their generousity. A tone board is not all that expensive you say?......Did you figure the repeater owner's time and expense just to go to the site, not to mention the cost of buying the associated components, etc? #Did you know that the US Forest Service charges an exhorborant user fee for the "privilege" of locating an amateur repeater on their mountaintop? #(yet they have the nerve to ask us hams to help out with communications when they are fighting forest fires) #How many of you would take a whole day off from work (if you are allowed to) just to install a tone board and support electronics for your home equipment? #Be happy with what you got; feel lucky that you can "hit" that repeater with your HT, WITHOUT the use of tone. #
#
I make no apologies for the emotional soapbox; SERA stepped way out of bounds on this one.......and I'm hollerin' "foul"! #CTCSS/DCS is now, and should always be, an OPTIONAL tool for the repeater owner. #

As a SERA member/repeater owner, I will vote against every SERA officer who chose/chooses to support this farce.

[K0RGR]

Since repeater coordinators started establishing co-channel repeaters only 75 miles apart some time ago, the handwriting has been on the wall - CTCSS access would be ordained at some point. And, as could be predicted, it has been ordained not in a way that would help the users but in a way that would keep the repeaters quiet.

I do believe that the rise of tone access has been a serious wet blanket for 2 meter activity in the last couple decades. It has made 2 meter use when travelling more difficult.

I won't condemn SERA's actions here, but I don't think it has gone far enough. We need some more here - we need better ways for travellers to deal with tones. Voice announcements of tones help, but I can't set the tones on any of my rigs unless I pull over and find the manual - most of them involve holding down three buttons and spinning a knob while flapping my arms, or some such procedure - impossible to do on the fly. I can PC-program all my rigs, and that is tedious too, since even with the best software, I never really know which repeaters I'll be able to use until I get to an area. I spent hours programming repeaters for my trip to England, and I've found two that work so far.

I think we need a universal edict that toned repeaters must retransmit the tone they use on the input. And we must twist our radio manufacturer's arms to include a new feature that will set the transmit tone automatically to the tone it is receiving. That would provide the potential to eventually resolve all of these issues, not to mention make lots of money for the rig makers! That ought to make them pleased. Repeaters would just need to announce their presence on occasion, and travellers would be able to detect and use them.

[K8ERV]

What is SERA??


TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[kr4bd]

SERA is the SouthEastern Repeater Association. They are the repeater co-ordinators for much of the Southeastern States.

Tom, KR4BD

[k4uug]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ Aug. 31 2004,08:31)]What is SERA??


TOM K8ERV #Montrose Colo
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/08/27/3/SERA-logo-2.gif

The SERA was founded in 1971 as the North Carolina FM Repeater Association Inc., when a group of state repeater owners got together to form an organization designed to assist in coordinating, providing communication & technical information, and bringing together all amateur repeater owners into one united body.

In 1973, Virginia and South Carolina joined the group. The organization's name was changed to Carolinas-Virginia Repeater Association, Inc. (CVRA).

In late summer of 1979, amateurs in the state of Tennessee voted to join the association and in 1980, the state of West Virginia followed, making CVRA a 5-state organization. In 1980, the Board of Directors changed the name of the organization to CVRA-SouthEastern Repeater Association, Inc., thus CVRA-SERA.

In the spring of 1985, 20 counties in eastern Kentucky formed the Eastern Kentucky district of the association, and in July, by unanimous vote of the Georgia repeater owners, chose to join. The board subsequently accepted Georgia as the seventh district of CVRA-SERA.

In the early part of 1987, the CVRA-SERA board wrote and approved one of the most complete, far reaching Coordination Policies in the nation. This new document provided a guide for coordinators and repeater owners.

In 1988, the board voted to drop the letters "CVRA'' from the corporate name, thus SERA was the new identity for the SouthEastern Repeater Association. The organization also decided to copyright its repeater index.

In 1989, the board again moved forward with the times. The SERA By-Laws were totally updated to reflect current trends. The coordination policy was updated and paragraphs titled to assist in finding portions of the document with ease and speed.

In late 1989, SERA signed a paper of "Mutual Cooperation and Recognition'' with MACC (Mid-America Coordination Council), as it had previously with the Florida Repeater Council, Alabama Repeater Council, and T-MARC (other repeater coordinating councils adjoining SERA border states). These agreements basically state that SERA recognizes these organizations as the official coordinators in their area, and that SERA pledges to cooperate with them in coordination and information.

Mississippi became the 8th SERA state and western Kentucky joined eastern Kentucky to form a new Kentucky District encompassing the entire state in mid 1989.

In 1996 the SERA Board voted to provide its own electronic "remailer" through the internet. Today all board members are on the internet, with almost immediate access for communications. Frequency Coordinators now receive computerized digital data updates of repeaters for their home computers from the master computer database.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Information

At the end of 1985, the association represented over 900 repeaters in seven states on all VHF/UHF bands. By 1989, repeaters in the eight districts had grown to over 1,200. With a new computerized database in place, the organization initiated the policy of annually mailing data sheets to every known repeater in the eight states in an attempt to keep the database as complete and up-to-date as possible.

In 1992, SERA board members were tied to the ARRL National Data Base via computer.

By the spring of 1996, the SERA board of directors approved additional software to assist directors in coordination. The SERA repeater database now contains over 2,100 repeaters in the SERA area.

The SERA director, who is elected from within his own district by his fellow repeater owners, is the leader within the district, guiding SERA efforts, answering only to the full board of directors in session and voting, and of which he is an equal member. His judgment is totally free in coordination in his area, guided by the board-approved frequency utilization plans and coordination policies and guidelines. This eliminates any possibility of politics from outside sources.

The director is assisted by a locally elected vice-director in both coordination and contact with repeater owners. Assistant directors are named by the director and approved by the full board. All within the district are subordinate to the director, who is responsible for compliance with the by-laws and policies of the organization.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Repeater Journal History

Volume 1, Number 1, of the Repeater Journal was published in 1971 with 12 pages of typewritten stapled sheets. By 1973, the publication was printed by a commercial printer, with a 7 x 8-1/2 inch format. The February, 1983, Journal had a new size and format. The new 8-1/2 x 11 magazine type layout set the Journal into a more professional look. In November of 1986, the Repeater Journal began printing full color covers.

In 1991, the Repeater Journal staff had in place computers, desk-top publishing programs, and tools required to take over the task of publishing the Journal by computer. In 1994, the SERA Board authorized purchase of a new state-of-the-art computer system and software for the Journal volunteers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other notes:

The SERA is incorporated as a "Not for Profit Corporation" pursuant to Chapter 55A of the General Statutes of the State of North Carolina and is exempt from Federal Income Tax under Section 501&copy;(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as amended.

The success of SERA over the past 25 years can be attributed to its people, people who chose to volunteer their time and work countless hours for the organization with no pay for their services, and the repeater owners and users, who faithfully support the organization financially through voluntary membership are the heart and soul of the organization.

The goal for the future is to continue to provide the best communications, cooperation, coordination, and education possible to the Amateur repeater owners and users in the Southeast.

The SERA is unlike any other coordination organization in the nation. The amateurs in the southeast have something they can be proud of. They helped build it and they support it. The relatively trouble free repeater operation in the area shows their work has not been in vain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The officers who have served with SERA from 1971 to the present:


OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT
(Elected Terms of office begin in even years)

1972-1973 (NCFMRA) Bill Sims, K4RUQ, (Durham, NC)
1974-1978 (CVRA) Ed Alderman, WA4PEN, (Raleigh, NC)
1979-1980 (CVRA) Charles Durst, WA4WTX, (Durham, NC)
1980-1982 (CVRA) Lane Tarleton, KC4CD, (Rock Hill, SC)
1983-1984 (CVRA) Don Morris, AB4J, (Charlotte, NC)
1984-1991 (CVRA) Carter Cogle, K4ARO, (Petersburg, VA)
1992-1997 (SERA) Dave Shiplett, AC4MU, (Perry, GA)
1998-2003 (SERA) Don Williams, W4VT, (Bluefield, VA)
2004- (SERA) Roger Gregroy, W4RWG, (Union, SC)


OFFICE OF VICE PRESIDENT
(Elected terms office begin in even years)

1972-1973 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
1974-1975 Charles Durst, WA4WTX, (Durham, NC)
1976-1977 Calvin Dempsey, WA4UQC, (Tarboro, NC)
1978-1979 John Fried, W4WWD, (Farmville, VA)
1980-1981 Ted Goldthorpe, WA4VCC, (Fort Mill, SC)
1981-1982 Carter Cogle, K4ARO, (Petersburg, VA)
1983-1986 Jim Fitzgerald, K4OJE, (Richmond, VA)
1987-1994 Nita Wofford, N4DON, (Memphis, TN)
1995-1996 Don Williams, W4VT, (Bluefield, VA)
1997-1998 Dick Fowler, N8FMD, (Clarksburg, WV)
1999-2001 Pete Seabolt, N4KHQ, (Dahlonega, GA)
2002- Richard Wright, W4LOC, (Chickamauga, GA)


OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
(Elected terms of office begin in even years)

1972-1973 Bill Parris, K4GHR, (Charlotte, NC)
1974-1975 Dave Rawley, W4WDI, (High Point, NC)
1976-1977 Carter Cogle, K4ARO, (Petersburg, VA)
1978-1979 Paul Marsha, K4AVU, (Columbia, SC)
1980-1982 Mike Williams, KC4AO, (Danville, VA)
1983-1984 Maxine Bennett, N4CEA, (Lookout Mountain, TN)
1984-1987 Nita Morgan (Wofford), N4DON, (Lookout Mountain, TN)
1988-1993 Barbara Gregory, WA4RMC, (Chattanooga, TN)
1994- Alex Hedrick, N8FWL, (Beckley, WV)


OFFICE OF THE TREASURER
(Elected terms of office begin in even years)

1972-1973 Bill Parris, K4GHR, (Charlotte, NC)
1974-1977 Al Ross, K4CAW, (Greensboro, NC)
1978-1982 Carl Smith, N4AA, (Asheville, NC)
1983-1997 Ray Adams, N4BHQ, (Knoxville, TN)
1998- Johnny Wofford, WA4ETE, (Memphis, TN)




DIRECTORS, VICE DIRECTORS AND ASSISTANTS
(Elected terms of office begin in odd years, with Assistant Directors being appointments by directors with no voting privileges.)


THE CVRA NINE-DISTRICT SETUP
From 1971 to 1975 the organization had a Coordination Chairman who did all frequency coordinations for the three CVRA states. In 1975 thru July 1976, the CVRA split into 9 districts across the three states. Each district had an elected Director and Vice-Director. The Frequency Coordination Chairman still held final authority on frequency coordination with the assistance of the various Directors and Vice-Directors.


The Nine Districts 1975-1976

MOUNTAIN DISTRICT

Director - Hank Holcomb, WB4MOV, (Lynchburg, VA)
Vice-Director - Al Dyson, W4PDL, (Salem, VA)

CENTRAL DISTRICT

Director - Bill Bridges, K4WHQ, (Shelby, NC)
Vice-Director - Ken Dresser, WB4NDB, (Charlotte, NC)

EASTERN DISTRICT

Director - Charles Durst, WA4WTX, (Durham, NC)
Vice-Director - Danny Hampton, K4ITL, (Raleigh, NC)

COASTAL DISTRICT

Director - Calvin Dempsey, WA4UQC, (Tarboro, NC)
Vice-Director - Eddie Sellers, W4NTQ, (Whiteville, NC)

PIEDMONT DISTRICT

Director - Don Haris, W4BUZ, (Greensboro, NC) (1975)
Director - Wayne Williams, K4MOB, (Colfax, NC) (1976)
Vice-Director - John Huffman, W4IRE, (Winston-Salem, NC)

NORTHERN DISTRICT

Director - Carter Cogle, K4ARO, (Petersburg, VA)
Vice-Director - Tom Gimbert, K4PQD, (Rixeyville, VA)

SOUTHERN DISTRICT

Director - Hugh Minton, K4FR, (Aiken, SC)
Vice-Director - Cliff Semken, K4OKD, (Charleston, SC)

WESTERN DISTRICT

Director - Ron Alberton, WA4MWC, (Greer, SC) (1975)
Director - Henry Roberts, WB4ROI, (Greenville, SC) (1/2 - 1976)
Director - Wade Holland, W4AZT, (Greenville, SC) (1/2 - 1976)
Vice-Director - Ralph Roberts, WA4NUO, (Asheville, NC)

BAY DISTRICT

Director - Bill Shaw, WA4MMP, (Chesapeake, VA)
Vice-Director - Joe Stevens, WA4JZX, (Elizabeth City, NC)



CVRA THREE-DISTRICT SETUP

In 1977, the Board of Directors reduced the number of CVRA Districts from nine to three. They were the states of Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. Each district has an elected Director and a Vice-Director. The Directors could also appoint Assistant Directors who did not have voting privileges. The Frequency Coordination Chairman retained final authority on frequency coordination with assistance of the Directors and Vice Directors. This continued through 1979. In 1980 the elected state officials assumed frequency coordination duties, lending more “local” authority for each state.


NORTH CAROLINA DISTRICT
NC was the 1st State within the organization in 1971.

NORTH CAROLINA DIRECTORS

1977-1978 Charles Durst, WA4WTX, (Durham)
1978-1979 Eddie Sellars, W4NTQ, (Whiteville)
1979-1983 Ken Woodard, WA4BVW, (Canton)
1984-1985 Beachum Leonard, W4RXG, (Winston-Salem)
1985-1986 Ken Woodard, WA4BVW, (Canton)
1987-1988 F. L. Warford, K4AZA, (High Point)
1989-1990 Ed Stevenson, AB4S, (Cary)
1990- Danny Hampton, K4ITL, (Raleigh)

NORTH CAROLINA VICE-DIRECTORS

1977-1978 Eddie Sellars, W4NTQ, (Whiteville)
1978-1979 Ken Woodard, WA4BVW, (Canton)
1979-1980 Ed Buffington, W4VGZ, (Burlington)
1980-1986 Calvin Dempsey, WA4UQC, (Tarboro)
1987-1988 Orin Hardin, WA4TBR, (Greensboro)
1989-1990 Danny Hampton, K4ITL, (Raleigh)
1991-1992 Richard Woodberry, N4LMR, (Raleigh)
1993-1994 Norman Harrill, N4NH, (Asheville)
1994-1998 Lin Couch, K4OLC, (Hickory)
1998- Frank Lynch, W4FAL, (Raleigh)

NORTH CAROLINA ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1978-1980 Larry Schwarz, WA4RHY, (Fayetteville)
1979-1980 Al Ross, K4CAW, (Greensboro)
1983-1986 Danny Hampton, K4ITL, (Raleigh)
1993-1996 Pamela Glaub, KC4SWM, (Raleigh)
1997-1998 Frank Lynch, KE4ZEQ, (Raleigh)
1997-2000 Todd Robinson, KE4JMH, (Waynesville)
2001- Chuck Wright, K4NYS, (Raleigh)
2001- Bob Lukaszewski, K4HA, (Raleigh)



SOUTH CAROLINA DISTRICT
SC was the 2nd State within the organization in 1973.

SOUTH CAROLINA DIRECTORS

1977-1980 Wade Holland, W4AZT, (Greenville)
1980-1981 Jack Watson, Jr. W4YPD, (Columbia)
1981-1986 Al Harney, N4EOY, (Columbia)
1987-1989 Lennart Bjerken, WB4USY, (Sumter)
1990- vacant from January thru October 1990
1991-2002 Bill Jones, N4NMH, (Charleston)
2002- Roger Gregory, W4RWG, (Union)

SOUTH CAROLINA VICE-DIRECTORS

1977-1980 Hugh Minton, K4FR, (Aiken)
1980-1982 Bob McCormick, K4FRX, (Columbia)
1983-1984 Garry Barnette, WA4MDF, (Summerville)
1985-1986 Hap Griffin, WA4UMU, (Sumter)
1991-1996 Gary Foster, WD8OXE, (Inman)
1997-1998 Vince Ott, Wd4NUN, (Goose Creek)
1999-2001 Ed Frank, KC4ED, (Charleston)
2001-2002 Roger Gregory, W4RWG, (Union)
2002- Jim Cantrell, W4JC, (Union)

SOUTH CAROLINA ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1977-1980 Lennart Bjerken, WB4USY, (Shaw AFB)
1977-1980 Thomas Martin, WB4PVL, (Walterboro)
1978-1978 Bruce Douberly, WB4JNE, (Walhalla)
1980-1984 Jim Burns, WD4DOK, (Lancaster)
1980-1984 Richard Nixon, WA4JYR, (North Myrtle Beach)
1998-1999 Ed Frank, KE2D, (Charleston)
2000-2001 Roger Gregory, W4RWG, (Union)



VIRGINIA DISTRICT
VA was the 3rd State within the organization in 1973.

VIRGINIA DIRECTORS

1977-1980 Carter Cogle, K4ARO, (Petersburg)
1980-1984 Mike Williams, KC4AO, (Danville)
1985-1986 Lee McDaniel, WB4QOJ, (Roanoke)
1987-1996 Wally Burkette, WA4KXV, (Virginia Beach)
1997-2002 Don Williams, W4VT, (Bluefield)
2002- Jim Campbell, K4YM, (Montross)

VIRGINIA VICE-DIRECTORS

1977-1980 Al Dyson, W4PDL, (Salem)
1980-1982 Amos Rhames, K4WQS, (Danville)
1983-1984 Lee McDaniel, WB4QOJ, (Roanoke)
1985-1986 Wally Burkette, WA4KXV, (Virginia Beach)
1987-1996 Don Williams, W4VT, (Bluefield)
1997-1998 Doug Sharp, K2AD, (Lynchburg)
1999-2000 Jim Green, W4ML, (Mechanicsville)
2001-2002 Jim Campbell, K4YM, (Montross)
2002- Jay Campbell, N4YMY, (Ashland)

VIRGINIA ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1977-1984 Wally Burkette, WA4KXV, (Virginia Beach)
1977-1979 Bob May, K4SE, (Jonesboro, TN)
1980-1980 Thomas Gooding, K4LHB, (Sterling)
1977-1988 Larry Lewis, WB4JBJ, (Forest)
1998-1998 Randy McKenzie, KB4YFV, (Hillsville)
1998- Charlie Stokes, WB4PVT, (Newport News)
2001-2002 Jay Campbell, N4YMY, (Ashland)
2002- Don Williams, W4VT, (Bluefield)



TENNESSEE DISTRICT
Tennessee was the 4th State within the organization in 1981.

TENNESSEE DIRECTORS

1981-1985 Sam Kirby, WB4HAP, (Knoxville)
1985-1988 Tom Park, WD4KWP, (Gallatin)
1989-1990 Gene Giesler, W4TYU, (Knoxville)
1991-2002 Johnny Wofford, WA4ETE, (Memphis)
2002-2003 Tim Berry, WB4GBI, (Knoxville)
2004- Andy Masters, NU5O, (Collierville)

TENNESSEE VICE-DIRECTORS

1981-1982 Cliff Hensley, WB4NKL, (Limestone)
1983-1984 Tom Park, WD4KWP, (Gallatin)
1985-1988 Gene Giesler, W4TYU, (Knoxville)
1989-1990 James Larson, WB4KQQ, (Memphis)
1991-2002 Tim Berry, WB4GBI, (Knoxville)
2002-2003 Andy Masters, NU5O, (Collierville)
2004- Jerome Buie, KB4POA, (Clarksville)

TENNESSEE ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1981-1986 Billy Gilly, W4YXA, (McMinnville)
1981-1981 Tom Smith, WA4ZOK, (Harrison)
1981-1983 Tom Park, WD4KWP, (Gallatin)
1981-1984 Dave Wolfe, WA4VVX, (Jackson)
1983-1986 Barbara Gregory, WA4RMC, (Chattanooga)
1987-1988 Neal Talley, WB4EAI, (Memphis)
1989-1990 Lance Lewis, KI4OG, (Nashville)
1991-1993 Roy Archibald, WX2B, (Memphis)
1991-2002 Brad Adams, N4PYI, (Nashville)
1994-1994 Dave Miers, N4MW, (Memphis)
1995-2002 Andy Masters, NU5O, (Collierville)
1999-1999 Richard Pryor, WD4BKY, (Gallatin)
2001-2002 Mike Conway, KD4VVA, (Gallatin)
2003-2004 Jerome Buie, KB4POA, (Clarksville)
2004- Tim Berry, WB4GBI, (Knoxville)
2004- Alan McClain, KA4BNI, (Dresden)
2004- David Fridley, KG4FZR, (Athens)



WEST VIRGINIA DISTRICT
WV was the 5th State within the organization in 1981.

WEST VIRGINIA DIRECTORS

1981-1986 Ted Wolfe, WD4KHL, (Cabin Creek)
1987-1992 Karl Morris, WB8GDY, (St. Albans)
1992- Dick Fowler, N8FMD, (Clarksburg)

WEST VIRGINIA VICE-DIRECTORS

1981-1986 Mike Palmer, K8LG, (Morgantown)
1987-1988 Lyle Gaston, W8FG, (Pratt)
1989-1991 Dick Fowler, N8FMD, (Clarksburg)
1992- Alex Hedrick, N8FWL, (Beckley)

WEST VIRGINIA ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1981-1986 Karl Morris, WB8GDY, (St. Albans)
1986-1987 Gary Holt, N8BZS, (Odd)
1987-1988 Dick Fowler, N8FMD, (Clarksburg)
1987-1988 Mac McMillan, WD8OZT, (Charleston)
1989-1991 Ralph Langley, KA8SVR, (Hurricane)
1992-1998 Dave Ramezan, KA8ZXP, (Glenville)
2002- Doug Cutlip, KC8AJH, (Phillippi)



KENTUCKY DISTRICT
20 counties of eastern Kentucky & 6th State within the organization in 1985, and in November 1989, the remainder of state became part of the Kentucky District.

KENTUCKY DIRECTORS

1985-1988 Fred Jones, WA4SWF, (Louisa)
1989-1993 Terry Estes, WB4ASZ, (Winchester)
1994-1996 Jeffery Martin, N5KOL, (Henderson)
1997-1998 Mark Smith, KM4IV, (Ivel)
1998-1999 Jerry Shouse, N4EQT, (Lawrenceburg)
1999-1999 Brennan Newsome, KJ4VF, (Harold)
1999-2002 Jerry Shouse, N4EQT, (Lawrenceburg)
2002- Mike McCown, K4ITF, (David)

KENTUCKY VICE-DIRECTORS

1985-1988 Terry Estes, WB4ASZ, (Winchester)
1993-1993 Jeffery Martin, N5KOL, (Henderson)
1994-1996 Mark Smith, KM4IV, (Ivel)
1998-1998 William Call, KJ4W, (Murray)
1999-1999 Jerry Shouse, N4EQT, (Lawrenceburg)
2002- Tim Osborne, K4TDO, (Happy)

KENTUCKY ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1989-1990 Larry Malone, KC4TX, (Hodgenville)
1993-1993 Wayne Mullannix, N4YUU, (Lexington)
2001-2002 Mike McCown, K4ITF, (David)
2003- David Forbis, KD4DVI, (Calvert City)



GEORGIA DISTRICT
Georgia officially became the 7th CVRA-SERA District in late 1985. The following were the first named CVRA-SERA Officials of that state.

INTERIM DIRECTOR - Newell Anderson, W4AQE, (College Park)
INTERIM VICE-DIRECTOR - John Robertson, N4BGL, (Lawrenceville)
INTERIM ASSISTANT DIRECTOR - Dave Shiplett, WL7ACY, (Robins AFB)

After elections in 1986, the first officially elected District officers took office for CVRA-SERA Georgia.

GEORGIA DIRECTORS

1986-1988 Jim Abercrombie, N4JA, (Augusta)
1989-1992 Dave Shiplett, WL7ACY, (Perry)
1993-1998 Stu Sims, N4MXC, (Cochran)
1999-2000 Jim Fonte, W4JMF, (Ringgold)
2000-2002 Richard Wright, W4LOC, (Chickamauga)
2003-2004 Jeff Benjamin, W4KMB, (Flintstone)
2004- Terry Jones, W4TL, (Flowery Branch)

GEORGIA VICE-DIRECTORS

1986-1987 John Robertson, N4BGL, (Lawrenceville)
1987-1988 Dave Shiplett, WL7ACY, (Perry)
1989-1990 Jim Abercrombie, N4JA, (Augusta)
1991-1992 Jack Berry, W4PME, (Atlanta)
1993-1996 Mike Flammia, N4PLM, (Winston)
1997-1999 Bert Coker, N4BZJ, (Dalton)
2000-2002 Jeff Benjamin, W4KMB, (Flintstone)
2003-2004 Terry Jones, W4TL, (Flowery Branch)
2004- Pete Seabolt, N4KHQ, (Dahlonega)

GEORGIA ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1986-1987 Dave Shiplett, WL7ACY, (Robins AFB)
1987-1994 Larry Smith, N4FD, (Albany)
1987-1990 Jack Berry, W4PME, (Atlanta)
1989-1992 Stu Sims, N4MXC, (Cochran)
1991-1992 Jim Abercrombie, N4JA, (Augusta)
1993-1996 Bert Coker, N4BZJ, (Dalton)
1995- Scott Haner, KB0Y, (Valdosta)
2001-2002 Terry Jones, W4TL, (Flowery Branch)
2001-2002 Dave Shiplett, AC4MU, (Perry)
2003-2004 Vester Scott, N8EKA, (Lawrenceville)
2003 Richard Wright, W4LOC, (Chickamauga)
2003-2004 Pete Seabolt, N4KHQ, (Dahlonega)
2004- Phil Heaton, N4BBQ, (Dahlonega)



MISSISSIPPI DISTRICT
Mississippi was the 8th State in SERA in 1990. In November of 1989, the state of Mississippi became a part of SERA. After elections in 1990, the first officially elected District officers took office for CVRA-SERA Mississippi.

MISSISSIPPI DIRECTORS

1990- Steve Grantham, N5DWU, (Ellisville)

MISSISSIPPI VICE-DIRECTORS

1990-1996 Jim Akers, W5VZF, (Starkville)
1997-1999 Joe Wood, AJ0X, (Laurel)
1999-2000 Monte Hatfield, N4KMH, (Pascagoula)

MISSISSIPPI ASSISTANT DIRECTORS

1998-2000 Keith Wells, N5ZNS, (Summit)
1998-2000 Bill Cooper, WB5YCR, (New Albany)
1998-2000 Mark Simmons, KD5EDV, (Madison)
1998-2000 Scott King, AB5MU, (Nettleton)
2003- Aubrey Bilbo, KE5LT, (Picayune)
2003- Harold Bullard, K5WHB, (Corinth)




OFFICIAL APPOINTMENTS TO OFFICE

Appointees within our organization are assigned different jobs. They range from Assistant Directors, listed above with their State Directors and Vice-Directors, to Publications, Membership, Repeater Journal Correspondents, Frequency Coordinators, Membership Assistants and many others. Their terms, generally run concurrent with the person who appointed them.


FULL MEMBERSHIP CHAIRMAN
(Appointed by the President)

1972-1974 Bill Parris, K4GHR, (Charlotte, NC)
1975-1980 Bill Paige, WB4LWX, (Kingston, NC)
1980-1981 Marie Presler, WA4YMM, (Fayetteville, NC)
1981-1986 Gerry Williams, KB4SEL (Colfax, NC)
1987- David Ward, W4WDW, (Tobaccoville, NC)


ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP CHAIRMAN
(Appointed by the President)

1972-1974 Bill Parris, K4GHR, (Charlotte, NC)
1975-1979 Lindsay Cleveland, W4IZI, (Burlington, NC)
1980-1984 Larry McLaurin, WB4VJE, (Greensboro, NC)
1985-1987 David Ward, W4WDW, (Tobaccoville, NC)

Note: In 1975, Lindsay Cleveland began setting up a computer database for the organization on his employer's mainframe computer. After a couple of years he had compiled all membership and much of our repeater data.

In 1985, David Ward worked closely with Lindsay and transferred the CVRA database to David’s workplace mainframe computer. During the transfer, application programs were written using the Cobol language. Several months later, David moved the data and programs from the mainframe computer to his personal IBM PC running Microsoft Cobol.


ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP ASSISTANTS
(Appointed by Membership Chairman)

1981-1985 Lindsay Cleveland, W4IZI, (Georgia)
1981-1984 David Ward, KA4LVO, (Lewisville, NC)
1981-1984 Gale Henley, KA4ACU, (Greensboro, NC)


FCC LIAISON COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN
(Appointed by the President)

1974-1978 Dan McMillin, W4DGE, (Greensboro, NC)
1978-1979 Cecil Oliver, WA4VQC, (North Carolina)
1979-1985 vacant
1986-1987 F. L. Warford, K4AZA, (High Point, NC)
1987-1999 Rose Bond, of FCC Atlanta Field Office
2000- Frank Lynch, W4FAL, (Raleigh, NC)


TECHNICAL ADVISOR
(Appointed by the President)

1986-1987 F. L. Warford, K4AZA, (High Point, NC)
1987- Danny Hampton, K4ITL, (Raleigh, NC)


PUBLICATIONS CHAIRMAN
(Appointed by the President)

1971-1972 Don Harris, W4BUZ, (Greensboro, NC)
1972-1977 Bill Parris, K4GHR, (Charlotte, NC)
1978-2001 Wayne Williams, K4MOB, (Colfax, NC)
2002- Gary Pearce, KN4AQ, (Raleigh, NC)


FREQUENCY COORDINATION CHAIRMAN
(Appointed by the President)

1972-1976 Charlie Durst, WA4WTX, (Durham, NC)
1977-1978 Herman Cone, III WB4DBB, (Greensboro, NC)
1978-1979 Al Ross, K4CAW, (Greensboro, NC)
2000-2002 Jerry Shouse, N4EQT, (Lawrenceburg, KY)
2002-2003 Dick Fowler, N8FMD, (Clarksburg, WV)
2004- Jim Cantrell, WJ4C, (Union, SC)

(Note: - From 1971 to 1979 the Frequency Coordination Chairman was the official who did all repeater coordination, or had final say-so on any coordination. In 1980, the elected Directors and Vice-Directors of each District were given the responsibility. The Chairman's title, now, is a person appointed to help in communications, if necessary, between Districts or neighboring states outside of SERA.)





INTERNET MANAGER
(Appointed by the President)

The SERA began its' Internet site in 1997. An e-mail server and FTP site was also set up for board members. From 1997 until 2000, Alex Hedrick kept watch over the FTP and remailer site, with two other persons serving as "webmasters". In 2000, Alex assumed management of all electronic sites and capabilities for the organization.

1997-1998 Jeff Martin, N5KOL, (Bowling Green, KY)
1998-1999 Jonathan Ramezan, KB8FSD, (Glenville, WV)
2000- Alex Hedrick, N8FWL, (Beckley, WV)



SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT
(Appointed by the President)

1998-1999 Dave Shiplett, AC4MU, (Perry, GA) serving Don Williams, W4VT





The SouthEastern Repeater Association, Inc. (http://www.sera.org/index.html)

[k4wde]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,08:52)]Three. SERA can't force you to do anything. You aren't required to coordinate a repeater. BUT, if you cause interference with a coordinated system, the FCC will dump on YOU. All they are saying, if you don't meet full coordination requirements, both carrier and tone frequencies, then you aren't coordinated. No one complains when they assign you a frequency pair to use, your rights aren't infringed then, right? So pick a tone, put it on the paper, and get over it. Or take your chances. Depending on where you are, it may never be an issue.
Just because the FCC is the "heavy" doesn't mean SERA
is off the hook. I agree that CTCSS wouldn't be a huge
burden with most operators. I also think that SERA should make its' repeater listings available via the Internet. There's
no excuse to keep them listed on PAPER. Jeez this is the
21st century! By making the database available electronically,travelling hams can carry it in their pda's, and laptops and easily find the required tones for repeater local to them. But SERA claims making the list available electronically would instantly cause all operaters to cancel their subscriptions to the journal and SERA would fold. This is bogus. I would still subscribe just to read the news in the rag. So if SERA wants us all to move into the 21st century, let them make the same move and post the SERA repeater listings on their website. Maybe this should be voted on by the members. Hmmm, is this even allowed? I don't know.
Is the database even copywrited?

[ag4hy]

i don't suppose it really matters. as in my area there are (it sure seems to be)no problem with any of the conditions that brought this on.
all you can hear on any of the two meter repeaters is: id, location, (on one or two) and the time, (on #one) and then it is almost certain, every body has "lock jaw" there is nothing, nada, zip, so i really don't see where it will make any difference at all, not on the repeaters around adrian ga area .
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KE4MOB]

From the SERA CP&Gs:

Policy 20(g): "The SERA Repeater Index may not be published or reproduced, in any form, by any individual, publication, electronic source, or any other means, for distribution without the expressed written consent of the SERA, Inc."

[k4wde]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Aug. 31 2004,01:12)]I think we need a universal edict that toned repeaters must retransmit the tone they use on the input. .
I believe this is part of their decision.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (ke4pjw @ Aug. 30 2004,22:30)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 29 2004,20:14)]The problem with trunking and amateur radio is that trunking is well suited to accomodate many groups that require radio service for short periods of time (like a dispatch). Different groups such as Sherriff, Public Works, Water, Police, and Administrative can be set up on logical "fleets" or groups, and share a pool of repeaters together. By using short messages, they only use a "channel" for a brief period of time, clearing the channel for another group to use. That way, a dozen groups of people can share four or five channels. Statistically, you plan in this case of no more than five groups needing to talk at the same time at any given time, therefore no apparent congestion and everyone gets a channel.

With ham radio, conversations tend to be of long duration, and usually with a group of people participating in the conversation. The "statistical" nature of trunking wouldn't play well in this scenario. A typical exchange for the amateur service could last 30 minutes or longer, dominating a trunked channel. At this point, it offers no benefit over a standalone repeater. Other technologies used in trunking, such as site voting, signalling, digital coding, etc. WOULD be a benefit to the amateur service, but not trunking in itself.

I hope this helps
Interesting, I would think the channel utilization would be much higher in a shared public safety environment as opposed to a couple of round tables. I guess we will have to implement it to find out http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
It's short, bursty type of traffic. Not the key the repeater up for an hour at a time type of traffic. It's extremely rare to see a dispatch exchange on public saftey exceed 30 seconds. Obviously a bank robbery in progress or fire at the gasolene depot would deviate from "normal" use, but still yet....

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 30 2004,22:39)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 30 2004,18:05)]And don't quote your TS-790. Check out keypad button #2. What does it say on it? TONE? That's your CTCSS control, unless you have the E version, which did the 1750 burst for Europe. You can change some diode programming around to conform with CTCSS, even on the E model. Far from obsolete.
The TS-790A tone board is OPTIONAL, part number TSU-5. #The button is there for when you have the board installed. #(Check the manual - if you do not have the tone installed the tone button will not operate. #Shouldn't that be obvious???) #I did not order it, because all the repeaters around here are OPEN. (At least most...)

And for the comment from 6-land, repeaters around here in northern South Carolina are very active - because they do not have tones blocking people out. #They are very friendly.

Being retired, I travel a lot. #I would like to QSO with local hams when I visit a new area, but it's not even worth taking my TH-22 along anymore.
I have the radio. The TSU-5 is for decode only. It will encode up a storm out of the box.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 30 2004,22:39)]Being retired, I travel a lot. #I would like to QSO with local hams when I visit a new area, but it's not even worth taking my TH-22 along anymore.
I'm pretty sure the TH-22 will encode also. The decode board was optional, but decode is not necessary to access the repeater. All you REQUIRE is encode.

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (WA4III @ Aug. 30 2004,23:57)]As a repeater owner, I can understand both sides of the arguement. My repeater is in the range of a powerful repeater, but the miles requirement is met, I am getting signals from the repeater that cover up my repeater 25 miles away. I have a 100hz tone access on my repeater, but that don't stop the strong signal from the other one. It would, however, stop the people trying to get into my repeater from keying the other one. They say they will not tone the repeater because some people may not be able to get into their machine. I think the problem is not with tones, but the greedy people sitting on the "paper" repeaters which are not on the air and refuse to give up the frequency. The coordinators should do a better job and limit the number of repeaters to a person or group and if a repeater in not on the air, and the frequency is needed, remove the coordination and re issue it to a person who will use it. I can name you a few such repeaters.

The #thing I am against is "closed, or private" repeaters. If a person wants a personal repeater, let him get a license for such a radio system. If only the on-the-air repeaters were coordinated, we would have plenty of frequency pairs.

Also, all States should go to the same channel spacing. This difference causes a big problem between Alabama and Tennessee.

Thanks for listening

Greg # WA4III #gdwalker@juno.com #256 247 3448
Amen, brother. I hear you!

[WA4RYW]

Quote[/b] (W4NKW @ Aug. 31 2004,00:14)]Frankly, REQUIRING tone is just another hidden, albeit blatant, attempt to create more revenue for the manufacturers; more repeaters....more handie-talkies sold. #If this were a fair world, Ickum, Yazoo, and Kwoodie would be required to pay a subsidization fee to all the repeater owners to help them maintain their "machines". #After all, the big companies are the ones who reap the financial rewards on the backs of the repeater owners, who by law, can't profit financially from their public service endeavors. #It's only the goodwill of the repeater owners and the clubs who maintain repeaters that make VHF/UHF FM what it is today, not the corporations. #

For all you repeater users who think CTCSS/DCS is not a big deal: if you had any idea at all of the financial outlay it takes to operate a repeater, you would be thanking the repeater owner/clubs every day for their generousity. A tone board is not all that expensive you say?......Did you figure the repeater owner's time and expense just to go to the site, not to mention the cost of buying the associated components, etc? #Did you know that the US Forest Service charges an exhorborant user fee for the "privilege" of locating an amateur repeater on their mountaintop? #(yet they have the nerve to ask us hams to help out with communications when they are fighting forest fires) #How many of you would take a whole day off from work (if you are allowed to) just to install a tone board and support electronics for your home equipment? #Be happy with what you got; feel lucky that you can "hit" that repeater with your HT, WITHOUT the use of tone. #
#
I make no apologies for the emotional soapbox; SERA stepped way out of bounds on this one.......and I'm hollerin' "foul"! #CTCSS/DCS is now, and should always be, an OPTIONAL tool for the repeater owner. #

As a SERA member/repeater owner, I will vote against every SERA officer who chose/chooses to support this farce.
I've operated several repeaters over the years. Amateur, GPRS, and commercial. Believe me, in overall cost, a $60 tone encode/decode board is cheaper than the drive up to the site to install it. Store-bought repeaters already have CTCSS built-in, and modified commercial gear should also, however it IS possible it was removed or cannabalised before being decommissioned for whatever reason. Bottom line, $60 bucks will resolve the problem worse case if your situation turns out to be more than turning on a switch.

You've got until January 2006. It takes an hour or so to install the next time you do PM.

[na4it]

Well, number one, I would not be a owner or holder-of-coordination of a repeater for it. Too much headache and too many people complaining.

Tone doesn't make one bit of difference to me. I kinda like it in metro areas, because you can run tone squelch and keep out the racket from cable systems and paging transmitters.

The FCC evidentally looks to repeater frequency coordinating bodies to help formulate plans to keep repeater interference down to a minimum. And, the FCC does side with an operator who will go through the process of coordination in putting a repeater on the air, in the event of interference.

SERA does not publish their repeater listings as that is what makes folks buy the Repeater Journal. Folks, they have bills just like we do. Coordinating software is not cheap. And, last I heard (and I will welcome correction if I am wrong) they DO NOT charge for coordination.

Also, if I understand the process, the coordinator has to take the suggested frequency on the application, and look at many parameters to see if it will work. This may even involve contacting other states to see what they have that a new repeater pair would possibly interfere with. So the guy (or gal) doing the coordination has a thankless job that they do for free to help further amateur radio.

In Tennessee, there are practically no repeater pairs left for 2M. Of course there are probably pairs out there that are "paper repeaters", or machines that have left the air long ago that no one bothered to "de-coordinate". And it is quite possible that toning a repeater may open up some frequencies.

As I said at the beginning, I don't own a repeater and would not even want to. I do think a little corespondence in a kinder way may be better than a huge spread on the internet.

Just my two cents. Please, no flames to my personal email accounts...I just delete them anyway. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 31 2004,09:58)]I have the radio. The TSU-5 is for decode only. It will encode up a storm out of the box.
"The TSU-5 is an optional ENCODER/decoder board."
Right out of the manual - Kenwood's words, not mine. (Caps mine - for emphasis.) Just in case, I tried it - although alt/tone will show a tone frequency on the display, it cannot be changed by rotating the tuning knob, as the manual says to do if you have the board installed. Therefore it is probably just a random display. If you are encoding, according to Kenwood, then you have the no-longer-available tone board installed.

But we digress - the subject is SERA unnecessarily forcing an old standard on repeater owners who wish to keep their repeaters open to older and younger hams, and to travelers. I could afford to replace my fine multiband all-mode transciever if I wished to change brands (Kenwood does not make a successor to the rig), or buy a new one just for FM and another for packet ($180 each for the minimum) but not everyone is so fortunate. That is the problem. And it still does not address the traveler's problems.

Sorry - still a bad idea and an inappropriate assumption of authority.

[n4tze]

I would not worry about this tone issue. Unless the FCC puts this requirement in Part 97, don't worry about it.
This is a backdoor attempt, by other people who want the 2m band for commercial purposes, to squeeze the hams and our frequencies.

One last observation for all of you who have "coordinating groups," STOP SENDING THEM MONEY. If you buy a "Repeater Magazine" or you participate in sending in paperwork every year to verify your repeater is on the air, STOP. Just keep the original application, that is all you need. Or better yet send them a copy every year of your original repeater coordination.
Who do you think pays for all of their, postage, fancy prop study software, laptops, and their mileage to and from hamfests???? It's YOUR money you give them!

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (K4JF @ Aug. 30 2004,14:58)]Quote[/b] (WA4RYW @ Aug. 31 2004,09:58)]I have the radio. The TSU-5 is for decode only. It will encode up a storm out of the box.
"The TSU-5 is an optional ENCODER/decoder board."
Right out of the manual - Kenwood's words, not mine. (Caps mine - for emphasis.) #Just in case, I tried it - although alt/tone will show a tone frequency on the display, it cannot be changed by rotating the tuning knob, as the manual says to do if yo