Don't go where you are not wanted...

[na4it]

Don't go where you are not wanted...

What is wrong with amateur radio and emergency communications?

I'm not going to slam any particular organization or individual. I think enough of that has been done already. What I am going to do is try to take a realistic look at amateur radio operators and their mind sets.

I think the only thing that needs to be looked at is a five letter word...PRIDE!

For amateurs that truly want to give something back to their fellowman, there is this issue of pride. Pride in the fact they took the time and studied hard to earn their amateur radio license, be it Tech, General, or Extra, full code, slow code, or no code. He or she is proud that they finally did it. And they should be. Amateur radio licenses are not easy to come by.

Then there is pride in the fact that someone has saved and put aside money to purchase state of the art equipment to use in their hobby and service. Nothing like showing off that new HT, HF rig, or antenna! Or it could be that sought after used boat anchor everyone thought you would never put on the air!

Then there is pride in furthering one's personal experiences with amateur radio. Maybe the operator takes pride in that they decided they want to learn to be an NCS station. Maybe they want to join SATREN, MARS, or any of a number of other agencies that use hams, and require some extra training. Maybe the operator has taken on a ham radio "specialty" such as owning a repeater, or become well versed in the art of antennas, or kit building, or yes...QRP. Maybe he or she finds they are a great contester, having the expertise to link computers and logging programs with CW and voice keyers and radios to work all the stations they can. They should take pride in their accomplishments.

But, we should never flaunt those accomplishments to the point others see us as arrogant and stand offish.

Then there is the other side of pride. "It's my license, my equipment, and I'm not going to help period, and if you do, you're a fool." Folks that's not prerogative, that's pride that demeans others and tears down folks. But each to his own.

Can amateur radio create it's own "set of rules"? No. We must play by the rules in place at all times. I have made presentations to groups and agencies about what amateur radio can do for them. And I have answered no when asked if we could drive trucks, serve meals, etc. We are trained communicators, that's all. And I have had some of those groups immediately say they are not interested. Some have said "we'll get back to you". And some have wholeheartedly asked for what amateur radio can offer.

So I go back to the title of this little article. My father, who in my eyes, was a good father, even though he had faults, taught me one very important lesson. "Don't go where you are not wanted." And I have tried to live by that. In my personal life, my business life, my amateur radio life, and yes, even my church life. And for me, it works.

So if John Q. Public doesn't want you there, don't go barging in. You will only make him hate you, and you will begin to hate him in time. But, if he asks you to help, even when he has refused that help before, let it be a learning experience for both of you. Go, be a part of what he has to offer, and give of what you have. And walk away from the experience with pride, knowing you have learned something new, and that you did your best. You'll thank yourself.

[KC5CPO]

Bravo, Well said. If we, as ham radio operators are to maintain respect, we MUST keep things in perspective.

[n0ov]

Well said.

There is a big difference between holding a QSO and providing actual communications support in a real-world or exercise situation.

Real-world situations we must understand and play by the rules. If we are asked, we can provide support and only as long as we add value.

Pushy people, those who cannot follow rules, or don't have enough knowledge of their limitations to stay out of harms way only create more problems for the first responders.

These are the folks who are normally asked to leave.
These are also the folks who make public officials think twice before asking for our assistance.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KT0DD]

Quote: >Then there is the other side of pride. "It's my license, my equipment, and I'm not going to help period, and if you do, you're a fool." Folks that's not prerogative, that's pride that demeans others and tears down folks. But each to his own.

Otherwise known as "False Pride"

I agree 100% with your view. The self - centered, selfish, me me me generation society today promotes the "false pride" attitudes that many people display, not just in Ham Radio, but in all aspects of life.

I saw a cute cartoon that showed an alien looking at the earth from space, and the earth had a "out of order" sign on it. How True!!!. 73, Todd

[NA6Z]

Quote[/b] (na4it @ Aug. 20 2004,06:01)]I have made presentations to groups and agencies about what amateur radio can do for them. And I have answered no when asked if we could drive trucks, serve meals, etc.

Both ARRL's QST and California's ACS have pointed out that volunteers are of greater use if they are cross-trained to do other tasks.

I can just see it now. "No, I won't administer first aid. I have a health and welfare message to send."

[kb9lie]

Around here, the Red Cross likes to sign up amateurs who are eager to help with communications, train them for everything BUT communications, and then wonders why they lose new volunteers so quickly.

[NA6Z]

I think it really boils down to unstated expectations on the part of both the served agency and the amateur radio operator. The served agency should be explicit up front whether they're looking for generalists or radio operators. And the ham should be explicit up front whether he wants to be a generalist or a radio operator. There are no right or wrong answers to this; I know hams in both categories. But for the assignment to work, there needs to be a match in expectations.

[n0nwo]

There is a lot to this topic.

Like you said, sometimes people like to jump in thinking they are helping, when in reality, they gum up the works.

On the other side, I have seen HF nets that REFUSED to let us use thier net frequency to work actual health and welfair traffic for the forest service during a forest fire in the boundry waters of north east Minnesota. This weather net in a near by state decided that their practice net and bull session was by far more important than what we were doing and insisted we move off. They cranked up their amps and everyone who checked in to that weather net CONGRATULATED the net controll for not allowing us to take up their space and time. I will never forgive those guys.

Minton

[w6em]

Volunteering one's services is like a contract; #you advertise what your skills, knowledge and abilities are, and make an offer to use those SK&As to help the agency.

If they accept, then it should be to perform tasks within your SK&As, not just anything that requires a body.

It's not, IMO, one bit egotistical or haughty to decline or withdraw if your SK&As aren't being used as you and the agency agreed when you first contacted the agency. #And, I don't mean operating a radio you aren't familiar with or something flippant like that. #Some people have limitations with regard to transportation, time, physical limitations, etc. And, those should be respected by the agency.

As far as Hurrricane Charley efforts go down here in ARRL West Central Florida section, I have been monitoring a wide area linked VHF/UHF system for most of the time since Aug 14, and its been exceptionally well coordinated. #Amateur volunteers report to the Charlotte coordination site, and are assigned communication tasks in Charlotte, Lee, Sarasota, DeSoto or Hardee counties. #And, before most individuals depart from their homes as much as 100 miles or more away, they have already contacted those in the know and gotten assignments up front.

There have been multiple communications problems with Nextel service, which for some reason either the Salvation Army or the Red Cross (I don't remember which one or both) seem to have chosen to use for emergency communications. #Perhaps they were given the "walkie-talkie" pitch only to find out that the radios are really a trunked system. #During the first few days, appeals were broadcast on Tampa Bay Area media for people to not use Nextel phones. #Cellular coverage was much better, so I am told.

Perhaps some of these agencies will learn from the experience and plan to incorporate amateur radio or MARS more directly in emergency deployments. #I sure hope so for the sake of saving lives.

Thanks again for the original post, as it really makes good sense and addresses a very common problem. #People who volunteer should be happy to give of themselves, without any more expectation for reward than a thank you, knowing that in some way they have made life easier or more comfortable for those in need.

73,

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL (50 miles north of HC on-shore impact, and 40 miles west of HC inland impact)

[KD7SWH]

Quote[/b] (kb9lie @ Aug. 23 2004,06:02)]Around here, the Red Cross likes to sign up amateurs who are eager to help with communications, train them for everything BUT communications, and then wonders why they lose new volunteers so quickly.
Quote[/b] ]Around here, the Red Cross likes to sign up amateurs who are eager to help with communications, train them for everything BUT communications, and then wonders why they lose new volunteers so quickly.

We have the same problem! As hams we have to make it clear that communications comes first. However, not to the point of refusing any life saving aid that we are capable of. Its true that we are not there to give first aid. So, because of that this "cross-training" should only be undertaken be those who want to commit to other operations as well.

I know that it is difficult to explain, what we can and cannot do for the organizations that we serve. Simply because most of us have several different "hats" ARES, RACES, MARS, and others. So, we need to make very clear the difference of each and outline our intent and capabilities with each of these organizations prior to any type of emergency operation.

73 de KD7SWH

Jon

Active:
Red Cross\ARES\NAVY MARS

[K0ZZE]

well this may be a little of topic but, i was turned down to even be a ARES member http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif . STAN SWAGGERT the what ever the hell he is said that my background was too questionable..................to questionable? i asked what it was that was so bad? He said that he didnt know that the CASS COUNTY POLICE ran a background check and had said that i wasnt ARES material. Then i asked STAN, if my background was so questionable why in gods name did they give the go ahead for my hand gun permits? I have passed three times and weeks before i even considered signing up for ARES. So i guess i am more deadly with a HT than a 9mm http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif , does any one else have this problam? He said he was going to check it out after i talked to him and told him this.. i called 8 times and all i got was the runaround. and to top it all off Stan Swaggert isnt even a ham, go figure i give up on ARES, thats the whole reason i even got a ticket is to be apart of emergency communications. there is no Skywarn in my area just ARES. So, what to do now?

[KD7SWH]

Jason,
My advise to you is that you contact the ARRL at www.arrl.org. They can tell you who is the ARES official in your area. It is my understanding that anyone can be in ARES and that there is no required background check. I hope that this rude swl'er hasn't destroyed your interest in Emergency Communications.

73 de KD7SWH

Jon

[K6BBC]

If I want a sermon, I’ll tune into Dr. Gene Scott.

K6BBC

[WH7QQ]

As several have noted, I too have been recruited by the Red Cross and trained for everything but communications (but as a Ham, I'm expected to know something about that already, aren't I?).

As it has turned out, if all I ever did for Red Cross since joining was communications, the sum over the last 4 years would have been zero! As it is, I've helped a lot of folks in need and helped to rehab our emergency workers during brushfires and floods. On the other hand, when that time does arrive, I'll be a better ARC communicator for knowing how the organization works from the inside. Another benefit: If you open up the shelter, you can chose where to set up your radio shack rather than getting stuck in the janitor's closet. Bottom line: in many situations, communications aren't needed but there are lots of other ways to help. I hope hams won't sit on their hands just because it doesn't involve the use of a radio. We are a multi- talented group and we can shine in many ways!

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Aug. 23 2004,17:44)]If I want a sermon, I’ll tune into Dr. Gene Scott.

K6BBC
You should go listen to Gene Scott instead of wasting your time needling well-meaning posters here.

To the station who was refused ARES (TM-ARRL)membership, I don't quite understand, as its an ARRL group and works independent of any government affiliation. #RACES, on the other hand, IS a government-sanctioned operation and, when I belonged in Northern CA, I had to have government issued special ID. #And, that probably came with a, yes, background check.

Since I once had a security clearance, a background check involves lots of things, including a credit check.
Not just arrest and conviction records. #So, it seems strange that you would be given a weapons permit and yet be told you didn't pass a background check.....you already had passed one!!!!


Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[K6UEY]

Does the Red Cross have need for Cake Decorators,I understand some Hams have been trained for that?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KD7SWH]

sure we like cake just as much as the next guy.

[WB4CAB]

Having been a "first responder" for 30 years (now retired) I have had many opportunities to both use hams as emergency communicators, field inspectors and passengers with Civil Defense or Red Cross officials who needed the dependable and and high coverage communications we are uniquely capable of providing. I have had little experience with the elite operator that is mentioned in the primary post and, at least in the Atlanta area, hams are not adverse to providing services in an emergency situation (usually tornados around here) other than radio operations. We try to use the hams to their and the emergency agency's best advantage, but everyone I have had the honor to work with over the past 27 years as a ham have be willing to pitch in and do what was necessary at the time to save lives or relive suffering, even if it didn't involve running a radio.

[k8nqc]

Having been around since the days when we novices and techs were usually given the job of runner or peddler or water boy, I have seen the need for us to perform many tasks as part of a civil defense effort. I was pleased when the CB service came along to handle much of the local work. That permitted us to focus on formal communications and special functions such as laison and health and welfare. Now that the most of the community minded CB groups have disbanded and their more capable members have joined the ham ranks, we again need to be flexible to a broad range of needs of those managing the situation. Some of us old goats are not going to be throwing sand bags or cutting trees but we need to be ready to contribute where we are needed.

We do need to keep up with the resources and methods that are in place to do the best job today. Every responsible ham ought to do that in the spirit of the hobby. I have been working emergencies for years and only during "Charlie" learned of the wonderful system developed by the Salvation Army volunteers for helping with health and welfare traffic (SATERN.ORG). I have found that the best thing most of us can do in alert times is to carefully LISTEN. A ham may be called upon to handle a single item in an emergency but it may be very, very important to the people involved. In addition to being of genuine help, that is the PR we can contribute.

The one deficiency that I noticed during the latest emergency was the loss of support that used to be readily available. I heard several requests for phone patches from deployed, marine, and stranded stations go without any help. There is still need for the ability to handle phone patches, formal traffic, and cross mode/band relays for which equipment or skills is now absent.

What each of us can do is up to us. We need to think about that before problems arise. Oranizations tend to have less than professional levels of leadership. However, if we are not willing to work as hard as they do, we ought not to complain. 73, Bill

[w6em]

Perhaps since I was primarily a listener during Charley's aftermath, I must have been asleep when I heard multiple messages passed via the wide area K4WCF repeater system to be relayed and or delivered by many involved. Actually, there was a station actually soliciting that he would handle traffic. Not via SATERN. The Red Cross seemed to have quite a few communication problems, thanks to someone's inane idea to use Nextel for internal communications in an emergency.

To address the concern about the lack of phone patches, most repeaters now don't have any. I made a phone call from my home at the request of a ham who was mobile. I could have made other such calls if anyone had requested. Phone autopatches should still exist, if only for emergency use. It would have been very useful to have had one on the linked system, as it was outside the affected area, where Nextel didn't work, nor was cellular too much better. And, of course, no landline connections.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

[k3pd]

I was a trained communicator in the U.S. Navy. However I carried a sidearm and a radiopack. The sidearm was not for sending communications. I also made coffee, issued first aid if needed, and did just about anything else needed to get the job done. The job consisted of much more than just communications over the airwaves.
Today I am still a trained communicator, and I enjoy the brotherhood of my fellow hams. I would not hesitate to make or serve coffee if that would help to alleviate the pain of someone else doing disaster work. My pledge is to use my expertise and person to help others in need. I do not wear blinders when performing public service. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[k4uug]

na4it

Well Said Thank You!



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W0LC]

Truly the truth James (NA4IT)!

It is unfortunate that a few will categorize anyone by license class or make ignorant comments regarding anyone licensed within this fraternity.

I have and continue to work anyone that I hear on the bands, regardless of license class, equipment model, age, race, etc. What should it matter?

We should take pride in our hobby and should seriously work towards maintaining a level of professionalism (for a lack of a better word to use) and a high set of standards. Otherwise, the "pride" will have little basis and no value.

Thanks for the post James!

GB!

[n2obm]

Folks.....
My 2 cents, as a reminder.

THE AMATEUR'S CODE

THE RADIO AMATEUR IS:

CONSIDERATE .... Never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL.... Offers loyalty, encouragement, and support to other amateurs and local amateur radio clubs.

PROGRESSIVE.... With knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY.... Slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED.... Radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school, or community.

PATRIOTIC.... Station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

The original Amateur's Code was written by Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, in 1928.

[WN7YJJ]

As a SKYWARN/ARES member who has been part of the post Hurricane Charley activities of our county Emergency Operations Center for the past week, I can speak from experience as to our emergency management team's use of hams -- hams provide necessary communications when other modes have failed, period. And they do it extremely well. Maybe we're more fortunate than most because our county's Emergency Management Coordinator is also a ham.

Osceola County gave ARES a room in the EOC some months ago to set up as a radio room and helped fund it's equiping, but the majority of the equipment and all of the labor was supplied by ARES members. In the aftermath of Charley we have manned the radio room 24/7, as well as provided communications at shelters, feeding stations, water/ice distribution centers, etc., until landline and/or cell phone communications could be restored. Although I'm quite sure our members would perform other duties if asked or the need was seen, but that has not been the case. Our expertise has been respected for what it is. We leave other's expertise to them. Cross training may be fine, but for most hams, I think, we'd wind up "jacks of all trades, masters of none".

Harry
WN7YJJ

[K0PP]

There's another aspect of not going where you're not wanted that most of you will almost impossible to believe ....

In our case (Deer Lodge County Montana) my radio club (W7VNE - MT's oldest) has been told in no uncertain terms by an amateur who's a dispatcher that we will NEVER be used by the county. Why not? We represent a threat to potential overtime pay for the union dispatchers. We built an EOC in the police/sheriff building, only to have TWICE had guns drawn on us when attempting to use the facility. That facility and it's equipment sets idle, collecting dust.

[K6UEY]

Can't you sleep sound at night and feel your tax money is really working,knowing that the UNION, not the elected officials are running your community.We have witnessed the Unions running company's out of business and forcing others to seek out of country labor, Now that they have taken over our local govcerment,I'm waiting to see the cities and towns and counties filing for bankruptcy.It is only a matter of time,It's the American Way ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Of course there is a way out of this problem,simply raise the taxes every time the UNION wants more wages....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[WA7VTD]

[quote=na4it,Aug. 20 2004,06:01]Don't go where you are not wanted...

What is wrong with amateur radio and emergency communications?
*******************************************

Ah yes...going where one is not wanted..a bad idea, especially in the desert, surrounded by warring factions who nonetheless have the common goal of slitting your throat, cutting off your head, etc...but enough of that...

It is a huge burnout dealing with the struggles of EMCOM and ARES vs. CERT vs. ACS vs. this vs. that. A good agency and EM will go the EC or local AEC and instead of saying "Do it this way," will say: "This is what I'd like to be able to do, and you probably have some additional ideas...please tell me how I can help you set that up."

And a good SEC or DEC will give some flexibility, and not come around knocking heads because "you colored outside the lines!" Enough of the pushy, arrogant, narrowminded ones who wish they had stars on their shoulders....sure, ya gotta be firm, and yeah, ya gotta be tough...but how ya gonna get VOLUNTEERS to do ANYTHING without their RESPECT?

The good EMs don't give a rat's butt about our titles of SEC, EC, AEC, Deputy AEC, blah blah except as it relates to a response plan and so they know whom to deal with.

If the local need is for some tasks that require both coms and driving, then for God's sake hook up with the drivers or if there are hams who also have that knack, let them form a special unit for that. This is based on local needs of the local agencies. If they say "We really need you to man and use this fax machine," what 'ya gonna do, say "I'm sorry, I am a HAM, sir! I do not DO fax machines!"http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?

In many small towns there are not enough volulnteers to cover all of the CERT and ARES functions independently. Also, you don't have a clue where you will be when it hits the fan! You may be in such a positon (or pickle) that your #ARES "function" you've been training for and planning on just isn't gonna work out that particular day. So throw on your CERT pack and start digging people out!

Ya gotta be flexible, man! Cross-train! You can't have too much training! Whatever function you fulfill, you will do it better by knowing how to do others. If you are doing coms for medical responders, for example, you wil do a better job if you have some emergency medical training. You will make fewer errors.

Be flexible!!! No one cares what your acronym is, they care whether you can do the job and know how the system works! Yes, you simply have to understand ARES and NTS...no matter what; otherwise, you wil #not know how to fully do your job regaeless of what mind of com unit you belong to. But if you are in a specialized unit semi-autonomous or apart from ARES, meeting the particular wants and needs of your local EM, good for you, and don't take any crap from anybody, especially those "proud" people mentioned in the main post!

73,

Kevin WA7VTD[I]

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 25 2004,15:03)]Can't you sleep sound at night and feel your tax money is really working,knowing that the UNION, not the elected officials are running your community.We have witnessed the Unions running company's out of business and forcing others to seek out of country labor, Now that they have taken over our local govcerment,I'm waiting to see the cities and towns and counties filing for bankruptcy.It is only a matter of time,It's the American Way ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Of course there is a way out of this problem,simply raise the taxes every time the UNION wants more wages....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Aren't sherriffs and chiefs of police still elected in Montana? #Simply go to the man or woman or commission who directly answers to the electorate to show what ham radio coordination during a disaster is all about: #Failure of primary power; failure of standby/emergency generators; failure of normal land line, cellular and even public safety communications facilities from structure or equipment damage or over use. #Hurricane Charley has given us lots of very good examples.

Now to Mr. "H"UEY's comment about unions. #Off shoring wasn't at all the fault of unions. #Corporations like SBC, Oracle, and Dell choose to fire professional engineers, accountants and employees not represented by unions and replace them with overseas, non-tax paying workers at obviously much less. #Often, the only telltale is a heavy accent which you can't understand..... #What was/were the motive(s)? #No taxes; no healthcare; no social security; and no US employment law applicability.

Yes, let's do balance the tax budget. #Don't spend willy-nilly without sufficient tax revenue. #The states and local governments have to abide by that one and I think that Mr. "H"UEY will agree that Californians especially understand, thanks to their debt mess. #The folks in the Washington DC excecutive branch don't understand that one.

Lee
W6EM
ex-Californian


I'm for volunteerism to help my fellow man when he or she truly needs it. #If he or she doesn't recognize when or how that may be, then its incumbent for those wishing to help to show how they can be of service in a time of need.

[kg3q]

im in the reading,pa. area.we have two radio clubs,one
that has been associated with the red cross since (1980)
the (ddxa)dauberville dx association, repeater freq.is
145.49 also 145.15.both pl. 114.8 all are welcome.the other club is one of the oldest ham clubs around.the reading radio club.on 146.91 takes (31)to access it .at
this time there are a few people who are in the process of affiliation with the salvation army and hold their net on the r.r.c. repeater.both clubs have figured in disasters in the past.its a shame that the local chapters of the red cross are so dedicated to helping the victims caught up in tragedys.have to suffer because of the (9-11)disaster and what the national headquarters were accused of.so
lets go down the road aways.when the infamous(bpl)
is fully implemented,and this country has a disaster of major proportions.and communications are going to be
in great demand by so many groups and the lives of thousands in jepordy,who is going to take the blame.?
president bush,if he is re-elected,powell head of the fcc.
or the govt.the power line companys already have an out
we did exactly what the f.c.c. mandated us to do so were not to blame if there is still interference.heaven heps us.

[KB9REE]

I signed up for our local EMA to help out. Originally I just wanted to help with searches for missing persons, but after taking the basic volunteer course wound up taking weather spotter class. In two years I was called out once and did not get the message until the teams were being called back in. I did however, help with other things which communications were essential. We helped as an agency with communications for our now defunct "Balloon Classic Illinois". After 9/11 my wife and I volunteered with the Red Cross to collect money on the street corner. The day of 9/11 we helped find a missing child in our neighborhood all strictly on our own without the help of ARES or EMA. Emergencies are where you find them and being a good citizen and serving your country is what matters most. Can't describe the feeling of satisfaction you get from helping your country in even some small way. I can't qualify for military service, but we can all find a way to do something. During a storm which did major damage to our area the amateurs were in the middle of it doing our everyday stuff. We reported lots of accidents and damage to the authorities in spite of the fact that electricity was out and cell phones were down and 911 was overwhelmed.
Terry Powell, KB9REE
Vermilion County Illinois.

[KT0DD]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 25 2004,15:03)]Can't you sleep sound at night and feel your tax money is really working,knowing that the UNION, not the elected officials are running your community.We have witnessed the Unions running company's out of business and forcing others to seek out of country labor, Now that they have taken over our local govcerment,I'm waiting to see the cities and towns and counties filing for bankruptcy.It is only a matter of time,It's the American Way ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Of course there is a way out of this problem,simply raise the taxes every time the UNION wants more wages....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Hmmm.... OK Orv, You think unions are so bad...The NEW USA with it's Wal-Mart mindset and economy are driving the American working class back to the .17 cent an hour sweatshop values of the 20's that fostered the beginning of the unions in the first place. The american working class is getting screwed by outsourcing, Hiring illegals on Temp. visas.

Eventually, the unions will have to return to strength when the apathetic american wakes up and realizes how badly he's getting screwed. But we will go through another violent protest phase like the movie FIST if things dont change soon. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[N3KIP]

Quote[/b] (KT0DD @ Aug. 26 2004,04:12)]Hmmm.... OK Orv, You think unions are so bad...The NEW USA with it's Wal-Mart mindset and economy are driving the American working class back to the .17 cent an hour sweatshop values of the 20's that fostered the beginning of the unions in the first place. The american working class is getting screwed by outsourcing, Hiring illegals on Temp. visas.

Eventually, the unions will have to return to strength when the apathetic american wakes up and realizes how badly he's getting screwed. But we will go through another violent protest phase like the movie FIST if things dont change soon. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
[QUOTE]

It is not only the blue collar workers who are being exploited. It goes way beyond that. The standard of living of the whole country is falling, unless you are a CEO. I say this as an immigrant who wishes he'd stayed at home (with apologies to Bob Dylan!).

[n0ov]

Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 24 2004,16:03)]Can't you sleep sound at night and feel your tax money is really working,knowing that the UNION, not the elected officials are running your community.We have witnessed the Unions running company's out of business and forcing others to seek out of country labor, Now that they have taken over our local govcerment,I'm waiting to see the cities and towns and counties filing for bankruptcy.It is only a matter of time,It's the American Way ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Of course there is a way out of this problem,simply raise the taxes every time the UNION wants more wages....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
UEY

How in the heck does this relate to the original topic?

For the records, unions who believe fighting with management is the way to protect their membership won't last too much longer. New model is unions working with management to do things right, improve quality and saving jobs in the progress.

Don't believe me? Check out Harley Davidson!

[n0jwa]

I agree thanks for taking the time to write this article. amen

[KU2S]

I think the issue here is whether one is a member of the Volunteer organization first and a volunteering Trained Communicator second, or the other way around. Neither position is incorrect, per se, but the fact of the matter is that if your loyalty is more aligned with the requesting agency, then you'll be more in demand than if you insist on being a communicator first and a team player second. Just my $.02.

[W9WHE]

The author writes:

"So if John Q. Public doesn't want you there, don't go barging in. You will only make him hate you, and you will begin to hate him in time"

So true. If he PROFESSIONALS don't want a Blue light on the dash, orange vest toting, badge wearing, 2 HT blairing, I know everything wanabee at their scene....do everybody a favor, ...STAY AWAY!

To a PROFESSIONAL (Trained & certified police, paramedic, fireman, dispatcher) the idea that some hobbyist that blabs on the radio PART TIME as a HOBBY with no significant training or hands on expirence is going to come in and save the day is just as it sounds...... NUTS!

Why do hams that operate their hobby radios on nights and weekends think they know more then the trained PROFESSIONALS that pass CRITICAL traffic 40 hours a week? Get a clue! You think that because you can memorize the answers to a 35 question MULTIPLE CHOICE exam and blab to your buddies makes you equilivent to a trained professional? Think again.

Want to know why the professionals are reluctant to accept help from hams? Its because they wear orange vests, wear badges, drive around town with blue lights on the dash and try to look important, when they aren't. All of you guys make it hard for the rest of the hams to be taken serriously!

[W9WHE]

Teamsters are a perfect example of union EXCESS, hurting their own membership.

In the 70s and 80s, the teamsters ran this country. From the manufacturing floor to the delivery truck. Teamster truck drivers in Chicago drove to the jobsite- then sat on their haunches all day - till they drove back to the garage. Teamster bus drivers made more than the cops, firemen and paramedics.

Teamster manufacturing unions demanded excessive wages, benifits and work rules - and got them. Unfortunately, they priced themselves right out of the market. So manufacturers moved the jobs overses. Now, thanks to Teamster excesses, there are few manufacturing jobs left in this country - thank you greedy Teamsters!

[KU2S]

Hey Jonathon (W9WHE), don't hold back now, let us know what you REALLY think!

[AA3ID]

Here on Hatteras Island, NC, home to many hurricanes and tropical storms, ocean and sound side flooding and other natural disasters, we approached our communication "problems" in a slightly different manner. Our recruitment for ham operators came from the emergency service personnel.

There were a few hams here when I moved here 6 years ago. They had several well maintained repeater systems that functioned flawlessly during emergency situations when the local comm was out (telephones, public service radio, microwave links to the mainland etc.); however, there were few operators.

Now, a few of the few hams (myself included) were also first responders with the local rescue and fire companies. Over a few storms, when regular comm failed, we were able to maintain communications with responding emergency crews via ham radio.

Once ham radio "proved itself", we then ran a class for any interested parties. it was taught by those that maintained the repeater systems and those involved in volunteering either with the ARC or rescue squad.

The first class graduated about 10 new hams four years ago. Then we had another major storm and those ten were extremely valuable in their new roles as liasons between rescue/fire and the main command centers.

Then we ran another class and had over 15 new hams added to the roles. Local fire/rescue chiefs, the Island physician, Island nurses, County EMTs and paramedics, local law enforcement, ARC volunteers, and the rest were fire/rescue volunteers.

Emergency management for the county had also provided each fire/rescue station with a new dual band radio, antenna system and power supply.

The next big storm to hit us after all were trained was hurricane Isabel which split our island into two sections. The value of ham radio became even more apparent at this time. Our repeater linking systems to the mainland and to the county EOC were extremely valuable.

As soon as the storm subsided, the medical team was airlifted to the remote part of the island that was cut off and some of the first traffic regarding the condition of the survivors, the immediate needs of the community and the medical center came via ham radio and the local nurse and doctor who were airlifted to the medical center.

The local power generating station (maintained by a ham) was able to communicate with the other islands via ham radio to get their emergency power back on-line. Rescue crews were able to report down wires, missing poles, transformer fires etc. directly to the power company via ham radio.

A link via HF was also established at the command center with the hurricane center. After seeing the value of this, some of our techs are now wishing to upgrade.


Law enforcement traffic was passed by the new deputy ham after he established a remote operating site. The medical center was equipped with emergency power and we had already installed the local repeater frequencies in their base radio, a few years back.

The medical center became the center of activity. They were great with passing health and welfare traffic. They were also located next to the community center and the location of the daily meals provided by the Salvation Army. When a family member outside of the area called the command center to check on the welfare of their family on the remote part of the island, all we would have to do is contact the medical center or the deputy by ham radio and ask if they knew the welfare of "Mrs. Jones". The usual response was, "We saw her and her husband at breakfast this morning!"

Passing that kind of traffic eased many loved ones initial concerns until more information could be gathered.

This is a small community of local residents (about 10,000 folks spread over a 50 mile long island) with very dedicated Fire/Rescue/EMS/Law Enforcement members (paid and volunteer (mostly)) with a dedicated cross mix of hams in their groups.

The local repeater gurus keep the systems up and running and they are the ones that deserve most of the credit for the success of ham radio here.

I guess the purpose of this comment is to suggest that perhaps the next recruitment of hams for your club or community come from those that are already involved in emergency services. If you get a handful to start with and have a natural disaster, your next class will have even more.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) we have more than our share of natural disasters here and use ham radio during emergencies probably more than most places. We maintain interest by having a local weekly net with great participation.

Perhaps you could post your next class announcement at the local fire company; maybe you could offer to do a demo at their monthly meeting?

A non-"pushy" approach usually works best. Getting your feet in the door is the first step. It is a slow process that starts and ends with professionalism. It doesn't happen overnight. It took 6 years here and that is with at least 7 major storms.

As hurricane Frances approaches, we will be tuning up the systems this week....just in case.

73 from Hatteras Island

jim aa3id

[w2agn]

My only complaint is that the ARRL has a monopoly on Emergency Communications. I am NOT a member of ARRL, although I was for 40+ years. Long story, but call it "irreconcilable differences." Anyway, I recently joined our local County RACES. One of the requirements is completion of the ARRL EC--1 Emergency Course. Well, if you are not an ARRL member, most classes are "members only." If you DO get a class, it costs $75.00, NON-refundable. For members, the cost is $45.00, refundable at completion of course.

Why should anyone have to pay the ARRL $75.00 for the privilege of providing Public Service, especially since the course is paid for by the U.S. Government?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KB9REE]

I know none of us out here mean to threaten anyone's job. As a union worker myself, I can see where workers are touchy about saving their job! However, public service is where you find it. In an emergency it is our duty to work with the established communications infrastructure and supplement it where it fails or is overwhelmed. Again in a recent storm the local 911 service was overwhelmed and we were able to take damage reports over the air here in Danville, IL and report them directly to the local EMA without bothering dispatch directly and even passed other traffic as well.
KB9REE

[kg4ozx]

Quote[/b] (WA7VTD @ Aug. 24 2004,20:25)]Ah yes...going where one is not wanted..a bad idea, especially in the desert, surrounded by warring factions who nonetheless have the common goal of slitting your throat, cutting off your head, etc...but enough of that...
Geez...
seems no matter where I go there are people who feel compelled to pontificate upon matters which are most certainly beyond they're comprehension, and obviously above their ability to realize that not everything in this world relates back to their narcissistic political views.

Ham radio here people... please!

[w6em]

Quote[/b] (kg4ozx @ Aug. 27 2004,14:15)]Quote[/b] (WA7VTD @ Aug. 24 2004,20:25)]Ah yes...going where one is not wanted..a bad idea, especially in the desert, surrounded by warring factions who nonetheless have the common goal of slitting your throat, cutting off your head, etc...but enough of that...
Geez...
seems no matter where I go there are people who feel compelled to pontificate upon matters which are most certainly beyond they're comprehension, and obviously above their ability to realize that not everything in this world relates back to their narcissistic political views.

Ham radio here people... please!
I think you might have meant their comprehension. #Perhaps "beyond their comprehension" should intead be applied to your authorship.

Narcissism is defined as "love of oneself." #Perhaps there are some of us who do love ourselves too much instead of our fellow man. #I fail to see how your use of narcissism relates to the quote.

Going where we aren't wanted has a perfect analogy in our intrusion into the Middle East. #And, the manor of behavior hasn't really changed much (over there) in some circles since the days of Genghis Kahn. #Look up the definition for assassasin. # Per Webster's, "A member of a secret order of Moslem fanatics who terrorized and killed Christian Crusaders." #Also from the Arabic root, "user of hashish."

Yes, lets do focus on helping where we are welcome. #There have been a couple of excellent posts on setting positive examples in helping others and the results encouraged expanded participation. #Having first responders as hams and EOCs equipped with amateur gear and systems in place and ready is the way it should be.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[k6ncx]

Quote[/b] (na4it @ Aug. 20 2004,06:01)]And I have answered no when asked if we could drive trucks, serve meals, etc. We are trained communicators, that's all.
Please speak for yourself. Some of us can drive (or load) a truck, serve a meal, answer phones, or many other things that might be needed. And some of us are more than willing to do so on occasion.

I think it's pretty silly for us to say, "No, no, I can't/won't do the thing the agency identifies as the most pressing need of the moment because I am a communicator."

Obviously, if we actually can't do something, or don't know how, or it would be unsafe to do so, or illegal or immoral, those are all good reasons for saying "no." Maybe simply not wanting to is a good reason. Your approach, though, seems likely to me to contribute to the number of places where we are "not wanted."

[w4hwd]

Quote[/b] ]I think the only thing that needs to be looked at is a five letter word...PRIDE!

Pride is a crutch for those who have nothing else going for them.

Quote[/b] ]Amateur radio licenses are not easy to come by.


Nowadays they're practically given away...buy a book with the entire question pool contained within, memorize every one, and regurgitate the memorized answers at test time.

Quote[/b] ]Then there is pride in the fact that someone has saved and put aside money to purchase state of the art equipment to use in their hobby and service. Nothing like showing off that new HT, HF rig, or antenna!

Whoa fellas, look at me! I summoned the wisdom and strength to call a ham radio retailer and put a bunch of appliances on my credit card...I'm so proud of the fact that I can pick up a phone and place an order!

Quote[/b] ]Folks that's not prerogative, that's pride that demeans others and tears down folks.

Again...pride serves no useful purpose. Pride in and of itself, when there's nothing else to offer is a crutch for a loser.

Quote[/b] ]Can amateur radio create it's own "set of rules"?

Sure it can. Just ask the ARRL.

Quote[/b] ]We are trained communicators, that's all.

And that's precisely where the problem lies. Old fat hams refuse to get off their old fat behinds and actually do something useful. Being able to push a button and blab into a microphone is hardly a skill, much less something to be proud of; if that's the case, the CB ranks must be full of your much-touted "pride".

Quote[/b] ]So if John Q. Public doesn't want you there, don't go barging in.

The only worthwhile line in the whole statement. If you have nothing of value to contribute, stay home and play with all those appliances you were so proud of yourself for buying...

[K8KHZ]

I will tell you the whole entire trouble here in this post with the ARES/RACES problem then it will be up to the readers to help figure it all out. I hope The ARRL President is reading.

Since there are no rules on ARES members required to have background checks or special specific training to become a member along with no age limit, anything that the EC requires you to do in the training as a prerequisite to get a "ARES" card ior to be a ARES member is not following the rules of the his appointment.

The rules of a Security Check and the training is for RACES operators only and this training is actually requested by not the EC as the EC but as the same person maybe as he is wearing the hat in the role of the RACE officer representing the local EM director.

What is happening across the country that I see is that our fellow EC's at the local level are letting the counties make the same rules that are only applicable to RACE be for ARES membership. This is Desolving the ARES organazation as I see it.

There is never such a event as an ARES/RACES event working together due to the part 97 rules. ARES operators are not allowed to contact RACES stations while RACES is activated. This would also put a large burden to the NTS organazation to pass messages. Since the RACES traffic can not be passed onto the NTS from a RACES station.

That is why you will never see the RACES logo being used on the ARRL website for an event because they are all ARES. Since all the operators were really taking part in a ARES event and so on. I challenge anyone here to show me where there was a RACES only event for a disaster where the need for more operators was needed and Only RACEs operators were sent. I believe that I will get no respose.

Since the Counties are all wanting a security check along with certain training then I believe that maybe that it the rules for becomming a ARES operator should change at the league level to include such things. Then there would be no need for RACES at all. We would be able to work as ARES.

Why does your county see you as Civil Defense RACES? Money. They get no money for a ARES group even though that they should now because ARES is part of Citizens Corp and we are really a county affiliated Cert group in a sense.

in final thought, I hope that at sometime the two can become one.

Sean K8KHZ

[KC5CNT]

This msge hits home for me as a volunteer FF/MEDIC for the county my QTH resides in. I am also a volunteer for the county's sherrif posse and i work in capacity of SAR, emer. comm, and mounted officer. The State Police SAR coordinator is a ham also so there is some cross communications between agencies, its not perfect what we have, but hey it sure beats the alternative.

73s and be safe,
Russ H. KC5CNT
Sysop for PCSHF: HF/VHF/UHF Paket BBS
Ilfield Fire and Rescue #22 Fire/Medic
San Miguel Sherrif's Posse

[K8KHZ]

from E-ham I find this no truth from someone. I wonder how you feel about this.


am almost 16 years old. Live in the San Diego County and was wondering if you need to be 18 + in order to join ARES. If I am not mistaken RACES you do have to be older than 18. Please correct me if I am wrong. And any information would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.

73,
Joshua KG6PDU


Hi Joshua!

I'm glad you're interested in Public Service!

There is no national minimum age requirement to join ARES (nor RACES as far as I know), although local ARES Emergency Coordinators (EC's) can limit anyones participation if they think it better serves the community.

Likewise, participation in RACES is controlled by the local Emergency Management agency which may have its own rules for volunteers, some of which might have to do with Workman's Compensation or other insurance issues.

But to give you an example, W1PAM was a member of Mercer County ARES/RACES (a combined organization) at the age of 16. There was no problem with her participation by either the Mercer County OEM or the ARRL.

73

Gary, K2GW
Section Emergency Coordinator
Southern New Jersey Section
ARRL

Most ARES groups have no age requirement. Some of our served agencies DO. I would limit where I could put you on assignment - in many cases you would be assigned as a 2nd operator at a location (aka supervised)

I know that I'm always happy to see younger hams in my area

73 de kc2ixe
Queens County EC - NYC District


-So what do we learn from this.... that the places we are giving support to are asking us to limit operators to be over 18. Is this an ARES rule no. So, can it stop you from being in ARES never. I believe these two people would be better off saying that you can sign up but they would only have them operate in certain area where it is safer under adult supervision.

[KT0DD]

Quote:>
"Teamster manufacturing unions demanded excessive wages, benifits and work rules - and got them. Unfortunately, they priced themselves right out of the market. So manufacturers moved the jobs overses. Now, thanks to Teamster excesses, there are few manufacturing jobs left in this country - thank you greedy Teamsters"...

Soooo....This is not ok... but it is ok for a CEO & his cronies to collect $50million dollar bonuses and $100million dollar "Golden Parachutes" upon retirement because they made the company "more efficient" by having some poor 3rd world country woman and her children work 16 hour days in a dilapidated sweatshop?

Sounds to me like the "Suit and Tie" crowd were just jealous and had to show they could be greedier criminals than the teamsters were http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

As far as helping in an emergency, our local CERT team is well prepared and has their own 800mhz motorola radio system. But our EC said he will use the local ARES/RACES group if the emergency becomes large enough and he is short on manpower. So far we haven't been needed for anything other than a few storm watches thank God. But one tornado or flood could change all that. The local EC calls the shots, and we follow orders... period. You need to always follow the chain of command structure.There's NO room for a "Gimme a badge and some authority" attitudes here. 73.

[w9jbl]

As a former disaster volunteer and board member of the local RC chapter, I can attest to the sad fact that the RC chapter (and I hope this isn't systemic, but I fear it is) was so disfunctional in everything but fundraising and health and safety, that they couldn't maintain a decent volunteer program, and relied on the hams for everything BUT disaster communication. #They were so desperate for bodies that they assumed the hams would be there when any need for volunteers arose. #Now, after getting them to sign a SOU between ARES and the chapter, we were able to make it clear in writing that hams do communication and nothing else, unless the individual agrees. #

Now we hams have to train ourselves to get over the "boy-toys" mentality and become more valuable in total emergency communications. #Luckily we're slowly getting there. #However, there are too many hams who are finding themselves promising to every disaster-related agency, that it's difficult to pin somebody to certain job.

[NE4ME]

Hello there Scott (NA4IT). Not sure what has happened up there, but I know that whoever is not wanting your group to participate is missing out on a bunch of really good operators and some guys that have alot of "McGyver" ingenuity and ingenuity plays a big part in a disaster. You all have an AWESOME communications trailer and from your Field Day scores your weather nets I know you all know how to use it. My hats off to your group. I am sure that there will eventually be a time when all hams will have to bond together to be effective, regardless of ARES/RACES/SKYWARN affiliation and regardless of city/county/state. It is just a matter of time, especially as close as we are to our surrounding states.

Anyway, what I wanted to comment on was some of the comments I saw above about dispatchers, hams and even unions. As a ham for 12+ years now and as a 911 dispatcher (handle fire/ems/police/sheriff/etc) for 7+ years now there is a huge difference between what we do. #1 is training and #2 is workload. Imagine being the net control of up to 100 officers and fulfilling all their requests for warrant checks, driver's license checks, etc, in addition to giving out calls and taking information on all the traffic stops and warrant attemps that they do in addition to taking calls for service from citizens on 911 and non-emergency lines plus dispatching those calls for service, calling the road dept, the utilities companies, wreckers, you name it. You have to be a walking/talking dictionary to be a dispatcher for a 911 center that you have to give calls out to all forms of public service. You have to think that responder does and keep them informed and safe. I know that no ham could take this job and do it right without a whole lot of training and I am sure that I know several other hams that are also dispatchers that can back that up. Ham radio does have a tremendous roll it can play for the general good of the community in times of disaster and general bad weather events. The reports that hams give to a net control for relay to the weather service are excellent. Those same reports of power outages, traffic lights out or on flash, etc don't need to be reported to the 911 center either by phone or by radio to the EMA and then the EMA report it to the 911 center. Trust me, 911 gets many, many reports of lights/power etc being out and all kinds of other complaints that should be directed to the power company, the street dept, animal control, city engineering, etc. Anyway, in severe wx events 911 centers can be overwhelmed with calls (many about the exact same event) and there is not much need in duplicating the info the citizens give 911 with what other hams report. What a net control station needs is reports that cen be forwarded to the NWS and anything that is an immediate threat to life/property so net control can relay that to the local authorities. No need in having a report coming into an EMA if all EMA does is call the 911 center and EMA does not "take action" themselves. What would be excellent for a net control station to do would be to "directly" call the utilites (or designate someone to), the road department, engineering, etc. My personal thoughts are that 911/dispatchers are the most under-recognized and overworked public service agencies around and are glued to a console, but it is sometimes self rewarding and you get an occasional atta-boy from your co-workers. In ref to the Union issue, I have never heard of a 911 center that was union. Not around here atleast. Unions, at times, have their place, but nearly always exist longer than they should and end up driving wages beyond market value and the jobs leave the area or the country, but there are times and places for a union in a severe way. It does seem that if you are at a place with a union that has been in place for a while then you will almost certainly see lots of foreign contractors coming in to take jobs or the company move to somewhere else. For instance, if any of you are familiar with TVA and it's relationship with the IBEW. Whole other can of worms..haha .

NA4IT and your group, keep your chin up. Whoever it is will come to their senses or fail eventually. Hams are the ultimate resource for "interoperability" when it comes to communications and we all know that "interoperability" is the new buzz word since 9-11.

73....Rusty NE4ME

[AB8RU]

I think its wise to take a new communications volunteer with a seasoned trainer on any exercise this will help, if you dont on a actual call down you have a mess and some explaining to do. I recalled during a diaster that someone untrained turned it into a mess.

I think that if we trained him right maybe just maybe it would not have happened.

[w6em]

Imagine what it would be like, if everyone was afraid or reluctant to "go there" in a time of need. Afraid that they would be told they're not needed or wanted.

Better to be told that you're not wanted than have people needing help go begging.

First responders to Charley needed help in a big way, thanks to the usual trunker, cell and Nextel failures.
Heck, the Port Charlotte police needed to put an old 150MHz portable repeater on the air and couldn't since someone screwed with the duplexer. Thanks to a call on the ARRL West Central Florida group linked repeater, NI4CE/K4WCF, a ham 100 miles away responded with a service monitor and got it on the air. He was "wanted" to the point that he got a code 3 escort for the last 40 miles. Of course, he wouldn't have been listening if he had the mindset that he wouldn't be wanted.......

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

[KB9REE]

Personally, I do appreciate the job done by our local 911 dispatchers. In effect they are an often over-burdoned "Net Control" for people in the "Real World" with real world problems, and do an excellent job most of the time. Of course they do make mistakes like anyone else, but hopefully, they err on the side of caution like sending an officer of the law to investigate a hang up 911 call which is busy or does not answer on call-back. It's probably nothing but they cannot take a chance. If you have ever worked radio for an EMA situation you will notice how much trouble it can be to log "everything" and I mean it literally. How much more can it be to have someone's life literally on the line in an emergency.
Terry Powell,
Danville, IL.

[KD7YVV]

Personally, I'd rather be told "sorry we don't need you" than to not step up to the plate
at all. I am NOT a first responder, I DON'Tt need a tin badge, I DON'T need flashing red yellow
green or blue or any other color lights on my wife's car. I have NO authority to tell police
fire or medical personell what to do or where to put me. None. Zip. Squat.

If I come upon something, I'll show my ARES ID to someone who isn't busy with something
else, explain I know first aid and cpr, and ask if I can help. If I'm told no, I'll go on my
merry way. The very first question out of my mouth is always "What can I do to help?"
I don't have a problem with pride. I'm proud enough to be able to at least offer my
services. Last thing the police need are police officer wannabes making a bad
situation potentially worse. THEY are the agencies ARES serves. THEY make the rules.
Selfish pride has no place in an ARES organization.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland ARES #154

[W0ERE]

This is a very good thought provoking article.

The word "pride" and "thankfulness" can be used interchangeqbly to express ones true feelings about and in reference to personal accomplishments.
In other words----------

"I am proud of my ham radio abilities"

# # # # # # # # # or

I am thanklful for my ham radio abilities"

Pr 16:18 ¶ Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
(KJV)

We all have the tendancy to be self confident and boast of our accomplishments. #This the basic human exhortation, however when looking back on my own life, I admit that I am not satisfied about some of my #explanations of my abilities to others.

In public speaking it is extremely easy to portray self accomplishments by Bragging. Many times we can turn off the listeners by too many self glorificataions.

Give it some thought and I think you will see the merit of this reply.

Al Gallo

[KD7YVV]

There is nothing wrong with being proud of one's accomplishments. I found out today I passed the
ARRL EComm Course I.

I still have so much to learn. I've been having a wonderful time learning what I can from the WX_Talk
conference on Echolink. There is so much out there
to learn about ham radio, I could learn the rest of my
life and probobly never learn enough.


--KD7YVV

[n0ov]

Quote[/b] (KD7YVV @ Sep. 01 2004,12:55)]Personally, I'd rather be told "sorry we don't need you" than to not step up to the plate
at all. I am NOT a first responder, I DON'Tt need a tin badge, I DON'T need flashing red yellow
green or blue or any other color lights on my wife's car. I have NO authority to tell police
fire or medical personell what to do or where to put me. None. Zip. Squat.

If I come upon something, I'll show my ARES ID to someone who isn't busy with something
else, explain I know first aid and cpr, and ask if I can help. If I'm told no, I'll go on my
merry way. The very first question out of my mouth is always "What can I do to help?"
I don't have a problem with pride. I'm proud enough to be able to at least offer my
services. Last thing the police need are police officer wannabes making a bad
situation potentially worse. THEY are the agencies ARES serves. THEY make the rules.
Selfish pride has no place in an ARES organization.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland ARES #154
Bravo!

Attitude is everything and you have the correct attitude when offering to provide support in emergencies!

[KD7YVV]

OK, I have to reply to this:

>The author writes:

>"So if John Q. Public doesn't want you there, don't go barging in. You will only make him hate you, and you will begin to hate him in time"

Personally, I don't hate anyone and don't give anyone a reason to hate me.
9/11 has taught me that there is enough hate in the world without me adding to it.

>So true. If he PROFESSIONALS don't want a Blue light on the dash, orange vest toting, badge >wearing, 2 HT blairing, I know everything wanabee at their scene....do everybody a favor, ...STAY >AWAY!

You definately should stay OUT OF the way if professional services are already on scene.
The last thing they need is someone getting in the way.
It never hurts to ask if a helping hand can be of use in a disaster.
Don't believe me? Talk to the people in Florida.

>To a PROFESSIONAL (Trained & certified police, paramedic, fireman, dispatcher) the idea that >some hobbyist that blabs on the radio PART TIME as a HOBBY with no significant training or
>hands on expirence is going to come in and save the day is just as it sounds...... NUTS! #

OK, let's take this a bit at a time. What makes a professional? Someone who works at something
making it the main part of their life as a vocation.
Now I do agree about the training, if you have none, stay out of the way. Completely.
You'll only make a bad situation worse.
Now let's look at two words used here. "Trained" and "Certified"
ARES/RACES members TRAIN to be EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATORS.
Once they receive that training, the paperwork and ID they receive state that they are
CERTIFIED emergency communicators, knowledgeable in their abilities to set up communications
where there may be none. Again, ask the people in Florida.
Knowing basic first aid and CPR also tend to be valuable skills.

>Why do hams that operate their hobby radios on nights and weekends think they know more
>then the trained PROFESSIONALS that pass CRITICAL traffic 40 hours a week? Get a clue! You
>think that because you can memorize the answers to a 35 question MULTIPLE CHOICE exam and
>blab to your buddies makes you equilivent to a trained professional? #Think again.

Perhaps you should think.
Along comes "H. Ham, the Know-It-All."
In every organization, you will find those that will screech their car, hop out of their car with
an ARES ID, shoving it into the faces of anyone they meet, with 2 HT's hanging off their
belt squawking God knows what, and think they DO know everything.
Those are the type of people organizations like ARES/RACES definately DON'T need.
If there were someone like this in my ARES organization, I'd do my best to make sure they
wouldn't be there for long.

I can say that as a TRAINED, CERTIFIED communicator, I act in as much of a professional manner
as those individuals who get a paycheck. Why can I say this with certainty?
I received the proper training.

>Want to know why the professionals are reluctant to accept help from hams? #Its because they
>wear orange vests, wear badges, drive around town with blue lights on the dash and try to look
>important, when they aren't. All of you guys make it hard for the rest of the hams to be taken
>serriously!

OK, here are is something that happened to me over the past two weeks, and yes,
I WAS a first responder.

Elderly person making left turn into parking lot gets slammed into by SUV.

Very first thing I did was assess the situation, making sure I was not in danger.
(First rule, make sure you're safe yourself, or you could become part of the problem.)
Since I was first on scene, there was smoke coming out from under the dash of the elderly
person's car. She could not get her door open. Didn't see any flame. FIRST QUESTION:
Are you hurt? She wasn't and although I told her not to move, she insisted on getting out of
the car. I got the door open, but didn't touch her. She got out of the car and lost her balance.
I caught her, and got her to the sidewalk.
She wouldn't stay in the car with smoke coming from under the dash.
Next order of business. Keyed up my HT, gave my callsign, and said I had emergency traffic.
People were standing in the street on the opposite side. (Blocking southbound traffic)
Yelled at the top of my lungs: EVERYONE, ON THE SIDEWALK, NOW!
That got southbound traffic moving again albiet slowly.
I interrupted our local weather net.
The repeater I was on went dead silent. A ham came back to me telling me to proceed.
I told him "Motor vehicle accident, 2 involved no apparent injuries, 156th Avenue NE, across from
Radio Shack. He repeated what I had just said, and told me to stand by.
Next order of business, clear two northbound lanes of traffic.
Stood directly behind the two accident vehicles, and made motions with my arms for everyone
to turn right into the parking lot. Cleared about 15-20 cars. Finally got both northbound lanes
clear with 2 cars waiting to make a right. #Southbound lane was still moving slowly.
About a minute later, I see an ambulance speeding towards me. I direct them, around the
two accident vehicles, pointing to the elderly lady and the young SUV driver.
30 seconds later, fire department arrives, pulling in front of the now stopped ambulance.
I direct any other cars coming northbound into the parking lot while fire is inspecting the elderly
lady's car and setting up cones for a temporary lane of traffic.
Next, police pull up, sees me directing traffic, walks up to me, says "thanks".
I replied, "you're welcome" and went over to sit on the sidewalk OUT OF THE WAY.
Ham on the repeater informed me that he called 911 and asked my status.
I cleared the repeater, informing the ham that made the call that PROFESSIONALS were on scene.
I didn't talk to the victims or anyone. I just sat there and waited.
All this in the space of 10 minutes. #When things were done, the cop came over, and asked me
if I saw anything. I didn't. All I did was hear the crash.
I told him exactly what happened, that I helped the elderly lady
from her car, cleared traffic and got out of the way.
He saw my radio and asked who I was and why I had it.
I showed him my normal ID, my ARES ID, explained I was an Amateur Radio Operator.
He took down my name and the ARES ID number.
I asked if there was anything I could do to be of service, and if not, if I were free to go.
Once he replied with a "yes" I just waved to the elderly lady, and walked away.

Want to know what I didn't do?
I didn't go flashing my ARES ID in everyone's face.
I didn't broadcast the fact that I was a ham operator.
I didn't act like a know it all nitwit sticking my nose into every little thing.
I didn't get in anyone's way.
I didn't compete with professional services (PD, FD, AID)
and I didn't wait around for anyone else to ask my name.

What I DID do was hopefully make a bad situation easier for the professionals to handle.
I met my wife at the grocery store and we drove home via another route AWAY from the
accident scene. (One less car for PD to worry about.)
Would I do things exactly the same? No, I wouldn't since no two situations are exacly alike.
Do I go out looking for accidents? Nope. Do I care if anyone at the scene knows I was there?
Nope. I just handled things the way my training taught me to handle things. Nothing less,
nothing more. Oh, and just in case you're wondering, yes, I DO have an orange vest that says
"EMERGENCY COMMUNICATOR". I've never worn it, but I hear such orange vests are great things
for making me more visible should my wife and I come upon an accident and it is night time.
It sits happily in the trunk of our car along with a small first aid kit, road flares and a fire
extinguisher. Both my wife and I know CPR and basic first aid.
It is always good to be prepared, because you never know what life will throw at you.

For instance, suppose my wife and I came upon
an accident with only one police officer on scene with
multiple injuries, 2 people bleeding severely?
I'd say I know first aid, and help to stop the bleeding
on one victim, my wife, the other, so the officer could
deal with onlookers standing in the street, stopped
cars, whatever.
Good rule is to become part of the solution, not part
of the problem.


Will I ever become like H. Ham, the Know It All?
Not if I have anything to do with it, and any ARES member who does should have their
ARES ID burned right before their eyes.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA ARES #154

[KG6DHV]

Quote[/b] ]Imagine being the net control of up to 100 officers and fulfilling all their requests for warrant checks, driver's license checks, etc, in addition to giving out calls and taking information on all the traffic stops and warrant attemps that they do in addition to taking calls for service from citizens on 911 and non-emergency lines plus dispatching those calls for service, calling the road dept, the utilities companies, wreckers, you name it. You have to be a walking/talking dictionary to be a dispatcher for a 911 center that you have to give calls out to all forms of public service. You have to think that responder does and keep them informed and safe. I know that no ham could take this job and do it right without a whole lot of training and I am sure that I know several other hams that are also dispatchers that can back that up. Ham radio does have a tremendous roll it can play for the general good of the community in times of disaster and general bad weather events

My hat's off to you sir. Dispatchers are underappreciated by many, but not very often by the officers, fireman, and EMTs at the other end of the radio. It takes a tremendous amount of training and lots of OJT to reach a point where a dispatcher is effective, anticipates needs, and can work independently. I've been on the other end so many times when I would think, "now there is a really good dispatcher."

When I worked for the U.S. Forest Service under ICS I noted that federal agencies, and the fire service in general were well equipped and trained for handling incident logistics. The National Interagency Fire Center radio cache had portable logistics repeaters and handhelds with 14 frequencies. Portable command repeater frequencies and tactical frequencies now number 7 each. This system was designed to relieve the local agency dispatch and command frequencies of heavy use during large incidents, leaving those frequencies for the increased amount of day to day traffic which occurs at those times. Many National Forests in Calif. have a "service net" which is designed to primarily handle logistical traffic between the incident and the dispatch center. In areas with good cell phone coverage this service net is not as important.

By the way, in Calif. all the federal and state wildland fire dispatch centers have a voice radio network, one for the northern state and one for the south. They utilize VHF Low and UHF frequencies on many mountain tops. Phones and computers have reduced the traffic on these nets in the last 20 years. However, I notice that these nets are still being maintained. The agencies are not about to rely completly on land line communications during emergencies. Too many eggs are put in one basket when using commercial land line.

I have noticed that the communications systems of rural sheriff's departments often do not have a command, and especially logistical frequency. They may have a simplex tactical, but it is busy with tactical traffic, while the main dispatch frequency is busy with command traffic for the incident, making it quite difficult to communicate the day to day stuff. Even if a secondary voice channel is available, logistical traffic can still overwhelm the system. This is where the ham comes in quite frequently. They can establish communcations between incident locations, be those the command center, hospitals, fire stations, and the like. This frees up other frequencies and personnel to address the strategic and tactical matters they are best suited for.