View Full Version : New Ham, Do I want to persue this hobby ?
KB3LIX
08-23-2004, 06:55 AM
I will be the first to admit that I am NEW to amateur radio. I have WANTED to get my ham license for over 35 years, but never had the time to learn the rules & regs of ham (etc) and never done anything about getting a license. (My loss...maybe)
I have had an FCC First Class license since 1973, now a General Radiotelephone License, and was employed in the communications industry for over 27 years. I was CE for 4 directional daytime AM broadcast stations, 2 High power (50 kW erp) FM stations, a * 911 * dispatcher and communication co-ordinate for a county EOC, service manager for a Motorola shop and system manager for two major One-Way and 2-Way paging systems over the period of 1973 to 2001.
By the way, I'm not bragging in any way, shape or form.
I recently passed my Element 2 test. (I have also passed my Element 3 & 4 written portion) but am STILL trying to learn Element 1. So, for now I'm a NCT.
I have read literally HUNDREDS of posts on this web site and many other ham websites that have degraded NEW hams, either because the requirements to obtain a license have been downgraded, code requirements were decreased or eliminated, etc.
(NO MODERATORS, I'M NOT TRYING TO START A CODE/NO-CODE thread)
I FULLY understand the dismay with the "DUMBDING DOWN" of the license requirements.
But,Consider my personal situation.
When I passed my commercial license test in '73 (and I did NOT go to one of THOSE license mills that promised an FCC license in 6 weeks) I KNEW the material. I worked my butt off to learm the required material and passed my tests with flying colors.
Then the Commission in their infinate wisdom:
(1) decided that they were going to drop the 2 license classes "First and Second" and institute just a "General" class license, and
(2) were going to deregulate the industry so that ANYONE with the knowledge (or LACK OF KNOWLEDGE) could work on any land mobile, broadcast, or whatever type of communications equipment so long as the licensee was responsible for the proper operation.
So I FULLY understand where those that had to work their tails off to get their tickets are coming from.
BUT,
I had to live with the commissions decision to drop the requirements and THAT was my LIVELYHOOD , not a "hobby" mode" that they were messing with. As a result of the "Dumbing Down" of those requirements, I have been unemployed for almost 3 years (since the tragic events of 9/11) because the demand for techs with my skills and abilities are NON existant in my part of the country (Western PA)
But that is my problem.
And I'm *** NOT*** looking for a pity party.
My concern is, with all the animosity that I see on the web, and what seems like downright HATRED of new operators, is this the sort of attitude that I am going to experience on the air ?
I have a 2m HT that I have programmed the local repeater frequencies in and am afraid to KEY it up and state that "KB3LIX is listening" for fear of someone out there will FLAME me in some sort of way that because I am a newbie, use some terminology that the locals don't like, or am not a member of the "CLUB" (I attended 2 local club meeting and only 1 person at each meeting took the time to introduce themselves (can you tell I'm looking for acceptance))#I will forever be labeled a LID.
#
I understand that there are always differences in opinion
(opinions are like A$$#@!*$, everyone has one) but this is supposed to be a fraternity to promote the expansion of knowledge, the experimentation with new technologies, the training of new radio operators in general and the assistance of others in need.
If the attitude that I have seen on the internet is prevalent on the amateur bands, then I have wasted my time, effort and $$$ on an HT. I was planning on purchasing a base station, antennas, cable, etc and asked several questions on QRZ, E-Ham and other places to try to LEARN about ham and got what I thought were down right decent responces from several operators out there, (and I thank those that responded to my questions)...
but I'm beginning to wonder........
Is it worth the effort and $$$ that I do not have to spare,
if I'm not going to be welcomed to the fraternity ? ? ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I am NOT getting that "Warm and fuzzy Feeling from what I have seen"
Again, I'm not bragging or trying to flame ANYONE, I respect the experiences #of others, and the knowledge that you all have acquired over the years, I'm the newbie here and just looking for your feeling/input.
73,
bill # # KB3LIX # # # # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
W0UZR
08-23-2004, 07:24 AM
If you are going to judge amateur radio by what you read here, then you're in trouble.
I live on 40m and I have met nothing but great people. Made real good friends with 2 people I've met on the radio, and plan to go and see them both.
Yah, there a couple of frequencies that you want to stay away from on 20m, and a lot of them on 75. Listen a lot and go where you feel comfortable, I live on 7245, and have a few friends there and you are always welcome to join us.
But if you are going to judge the ham community by what you read here, then you aren't giving radio a chance.
I don't know what happens to people here, I even sounded like a bull in a china closet a few times getting caught up in a heated discussion about a sensitive topic that meant a lot to me. The way I am in person and on the radio is way different than I get here at times.
So don't take what you read on these forums to the bank. There a lot of people that say stuff here that they wouldn't dream of saying anywhere else.
KA9VQF
08-23-2004, 07:53 AM
Dude, this is not ham radio this is a internet message board. The relatively few people on here are not a real representation of what ham radio is really about.
If you can afford the gear, go for it. You are a big boy and must have grown your rhino hide by now. If people dis you let ’em and move on.
When I first went on 2M around here it was like someone had just cut a but juicy fart. Everyone was suddenly busy and had to do something else. Now they look forward to hearing me and the inane things I come up with. Acceptance just takes time.
It would help if you can answer real questions but try not to get pushy with them. I realize you have a pretty good technical background but the others might not.
You must consider the source on a lot of the disrespect you will get from the oldtimers. If you listen closely you may discover that they are doing the jibing sorta tongue in cheek. Not really trying to Pi$$ you off just needling you. If you take it seriously it may be your loss. Some will be trying to totally Pi$$ you off but soon enough you will learn that they do it to pretty much everyone not just you. They just want to make you as miserable as they are.
It doesn’t really matter where you go the new guy is always smegged with.
KC9ETP
08-23-2004, 08:27 AM
Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ Aug. 23 2004,01:55)]I have a 2m HT that I have programmed the local repeater frequencies in and am afraid to KEY it up and state that "KB3LIX is listening" for fear of someone out there will FLAME me in some sort of way that because I am a newbie, use some terminology that the locals don't like, or am not a member of the "CLUB" (I attended 2 local club meeting and only 1 person at each meeting took the time to introduce themselves (can you tell I'm looking for acceptance))#I will forever be labeled a LID.
So why didn't you introduce yourself to them?
For all you know they might of thought you were a long time member who just doesn't go to many meetings so they didn't recognize your face. I have also noticed a good percentage of hams tend to be on the shy side with people they don't know, I know I sure am.
As far as using the local repeater.. Listen in to a few nets then start checking in when you got the feel of how they work. That will get people used to hearing your callsign. Then butt into a qso about something you have an interest in. You won't be a stranger then. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Quote[/b] (KA9VQF @ Aug. 23 2004,02:53)]Dude, this is not ham radio this is a internet message board.
If people dis you let ’em and move on.
When I first went on 2M around here it was like someone had just cut a but juicy fart.
If you listen closely you may discover that they are doing the jibing sorta tongue in cheek.
It doesn’t really matter where you go the new guy is always smegged with.
Yo!
I'm down wit dat fo-one-one!
Check one two....YO!
Peace....
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
K6UEY
08-23-2004, 09:08 AM
In my opinion you should do what you feel is best for you.If you have a true interest in Ham Radio then you already know what it is after waiting all those years. However as it has been pointed out this is not Amateur Radio,this is the internet,the two are totally separated and function totally different.Probably 95 % of those who post here on this forum really have very little knowledge of what Amateur Radio is ,was ,or was ever intended to be. Easily 60 % have no interest in the real Ham Radio,but they have social needs that can not be satisfied in other ways so they get a Freebie License and brag about how they are going to change Amateur Radio to what they want it to be.Not all but the majority,need not learn any thing new because they already have all the answers,the rest unfortunalely are hindered from learning,and gaining the experience benefits and enjoyment that TRUE Amateur radio has to offer.Until such time as you climb the ladder and attempt to enjoy the benefits of #Ham Radio in it's totality you will never know for sure.Having some back ground in Electronics you can appreciate the fact you can not learn it all in one week end,and unless you have the interest to dedicate your self to continue to learn,you might be better cutting your losses and finding some easier HOBBY.
Lots of Luck in making the correct decision that's good for you. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
N8CPA
08-23-2004, 09:41 AM
On the air things are quite different than you see here. To some degree, this is a place for our petty squabbles so they don't make it on the air. The majority of us, though we may vehemently disagree at the keyboard, would gladly work each other on air, and quite amicably. So the "family" isn't nearly as dysfunctional as it appears to be.
And most people do experience a level of mike fright when first licensed. That will not go away unless you use your PTT. So jump in and start having fun.
Now if you want some hints on how to minimize the chance of an on-air confrontation, I can offer you these tips.
You have a call sign, not a "number."
You have a name, not a "personal."
You need a signal report, not a "radio check."
They aren't really legal issues, but hearing those terms on ham frequencies rubs some people the wrong way, because they're not part of the lingua franca of Amateur communication. Also, although your credentials are quite impressive, remember that knowing everything about radio is not the same thing as knowing everything about Amateur Radio. Be ready to learn and to enjoy.
Now if you want to make your first transmission even less painful, as someone suggested above, check into a net as your first transmission. Just give your call when the net control asks for further check ins. You are close to Pittsburg, so chek online for any nets that might be held in that area. Make sure the repeater has a receiver site within range of your location to minimize noise on your signal. Try to use an external antenna, as opposed to the "duck" on your HT. If you don't feel like waiting for a net. Using the external antenna, tune to 146.52MHz and announce you are listening. If someone answers, be ready to move to 146.46, 146.49, or 146.55 to carry on your contact. 146.52 is considered a calling frequency on many band plans. Initial contact is made on the freq, then the stations move to another freq for actual conversation.
Welcome, Congratulations, now get on the air and let the rest of us get to know you!
;)
W0UZR
08-23-2004, 10:20 AM
<span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Like I said,,,
Don't judge people on the radio by what you read on these forums.
Listen to the radio, and see what you like. If you don't like something on one frequency, then go to a different band or frequency and check it out.
You said that you've read all kinds of posts. So check out the radio the same way. And after you hear all kinds of conversations, then decide.
You said that people here have so much animosity? Then don't go by them. Why ask from the people that you figure are so despicable? Listen to the radio, and you will know if you want to get involved.
I loved radio ever since I could remember. I always had to have a radio. I drove my parents nuts! I listened to shortwave like there was no tomorrow. When I was a little kid, I would pretend different things were microphones. So I was born to be on the radio. I couldn't rest until I got something to talk on and got my license. Either you are meant to be an amateur radio operator, or you aren't. If you have the love for radio, and can't rest untill you get there, then that's a good indication that you should get into the hobby.
But you are already into the hobby, cause you have a call sign. And I can tell you from experience that if you stay a tech., you may loose interest. Getting on HF, there is nothing like it. I can't get enough of it;. I eat amateur radio, I breathe amateur radio, I sleep amateur radio. I appreciate good quality equipment and radios like if they were my wife. I always love radio, and it's in my blood. The only way to get it out is to kill me.
OOps, sorry......
I got carried away. But meant every word!</span>
WB2RJR
08-23-2004, 11:45 AM
Bill,
You are the reason that fewer and fewer people get commercial licenses with the FCC. Your OLD FART attitude in regards to the change in testings, the combination of the 2nd and 1st into the GROL, and your opposition to deregulation are clearly apparent. Fact is people getting the FCC commerical license in the 70's and 80's was dead in the water. Commercial licenses would have died without a change to up date the licenses to reflect the changing world. Don't change and you will go the way of the dinosaur. Fact is that the new GROL people are more up to date and knowledgeable than the OLD FARTS that learned a bunch of archaic stuff back in 1973. The GROL question pool is too big and if we want to get "new blood" into commercial licensing we have to change our attitude. You are the real problem in this and if you keep pushing new people away the FCC wil eliminate all commercial testing, and then what will you have?
Nate Newbie GROL since June 2004
P.S. from WB2RJR
Bill,
Nates computer is down so he asked me to post this for him. Boy he was PO'd by your post. Nate's comments are not mine. I got my amateur radio license in 63 and passed the 2nd and 1st in 1970 after completing the CIE 1st Class FCC License Course. So I have a good idea of what you had to know. My opinion is that in the last 41 years I've seen amateur radio (and commercial licensing for that matter) go from a respected avocation or license, where possible employers could count on your knowledge to being totally worthless. Some think this is good, I don't. I believe that if you know the fundamental applied physics that electronics is, you have the ability to learn any new thing. If you don't know the fundamentals you're a fake, using high tech BS to cover the fact you don't know what's going on.
Years ago I thought the extra was close to the 2nd commercial license, focus was different on the amateur exam, so it's hard to compare. Maybe somewhere around the 2nd, 1st commercial exam. You took the present day extra exam, do you think it's close to what you had to KNOW to have passed your exams in 73?
Bill, I mostly operate CW, am on AM to chat with the people that like restoring equipment or building their own, do some CW QRP, and rarely get on SSB although I have met some great people there. Would be my pleasure to met you on the air.
73, Marty WB2RJR
P.P.S. Nate Newbie is a registered trade make of W3SY. I did not get his permission to use it but who cares, if he doesn't like it he can sue me.
w5klb
08-23-2004, 11:52 AM
LIX:
I, too, was suprized at some of the opinons some of the O.F.'s had about about some of the NC Techs. What really got me is that some of them continue to whine and snivel about what todays "Entry Level" ham is becoming and *SOME* of it, IMHO, is well founded. However, they continue to whine and snivel because this is all they know how to do. They, for whatever the reason, haven't got intestinal foritute to set EXAMPLES for guys like me (I am also a NC Tech-for now). But people like this are in the MINORITY. Whatever you decide, do not let others influance your decision on what's right for you.
When in comes to the ARS, I often times feel like "I'm the luckiest guy on earth" because I have got a pretty good "elmer" and have made some long lasting frienships in the hobby. I'm learning something new and different.Learning is a good thing. Don't be discouraged by what you read here.
I have always claimed that this forum, and others like it, are a case of mind over matter-if you don't mind, it don't matter.
Opinions like mine can be filed under the heading: "For What It's Worth" or in the round circular file.
W3MIV
08-23-2004, 12:01 PM
Bill: pleased ta meet ye.
People on the radio, meiner Meinung nach, are like people everywhere else. Some are good folks; others are horses asses. Talk and enjoy the former and avoid the latter.
The very same applies to these threads, but the more so in so far as the numbers of category #2. I suspect that the worst of the whiners and grumps hereabouts have made themselves so unwelcome on the air that they have no other forum for their vitriol and reaction than cyberspace.
As a test, I could post a message about the Immaculate Conception, or the state of sturgeon fishing in Siberia, or the best gefilte fish recipe, and there are folks on these fora who will come in and turn that into a harangue on the wretched state of amateur radio today. They are bent. Don't join them by becoming bent too!
Get on the air and have some fun.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
N8CPA
08-23-2004, 12:32 PM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 23 2004,08:01)]Bill: pleased ta meet ye.
People on the radio, meiner Meinung nach, are like people everywhere else. Some are good folks; others are horses asses. Talk and enjoy the former and avoid the latter.
The very same applies to these threads, but the more so in so far as the numbers of category #2. I suspect that the worst of the whiners and grumps hereabouts have made themselves so unwelcome on the air that they have no other forum for their vitriol and reaction than cyberspace.
As a test, I could post a message about the Immaculate Conception, or the state of sturgeon fishing in Siberia, or the best gefilte fish recipe, and there are folks on these fora who will come in and turn that into a harangue on the wretched state of amateur radio today. They are bent. Don't join them by becoming bent too!
Get on the air and have some fun.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
How dare you say that caviar is the result of Divine intervention! What a bunch of beluga!
N7AAO
08-23-2004, 12:38 PM
Quote[/b] (N8CPA @ Aug. 23 2004,05:32)]Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 23 2004,08:01)]Bill: pleased ta meet ye.
People on the radio, meiner Meinung nach, are like people everywhere else. Some are good folks; others are horses asses. Talk and enjoy the former and avoid the latter.
The very same applies to these threads, but the more so in so far as the numbers of category #2. I suspect that the worst of the whiners and grumps hereabouts have made themselves so unwelcome on the air that they have no other forum for their vitriol and reaction than cyberspace.
As a test, I could post a message about the Immaculate Conception, or the state of sturgeon fishing in Siberia, or the best gefilte fish recipe, and there are folks on these fora who will come in and turn that into a harangue on the wretched state of amateur radio today. They are bent. Don't join them by becoming bent too!
Get on the air and have some fun.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
How dare you say that caviar is the result of Divine intervention! What a bunch of beluga!
And then bringing in Gefilte fish! What are you, a mensch? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
In all seriousness, I agree with what was posted earlier about our disagreements here... I'd still gladly add any of the call signs here to my logbook.
Also, Bill, KB3LIX, you might notice after a while that those that disagree on one topic can turn around and agree with each other on another. We're all human, we all have opinions (as you yourself pointed out), sometimes we agree and sometimes we disagree. That's life. Honestly, if I lived in a world filled with people that agreed with me 100%, I'd be pretty darned bored. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
N8CPA
08-23-2004, 01:05 PM
See, Bill, Al (MIV) trolled, I struck, deliberately mixing his example for porpoises of humor into one outraged response, modo Glutei Equi.
MIV until quite recently was a nocoder with whom many of us curmudgeons disagreed, and still do, on certain issues. But he remains one of us, though he is wrong in regard to that upon which there is a moratorium.
So we all pat him on the back for his recent upgrade, and all of us anticipate hearing his dulcet tone of voice below 30MHz.
So don't let the apparent vitriol intimidate you. Gentlemen that we are, we keep it off the air. ;)
W3MIV
08-23-2004, 01:29 PM
CPA:
(This post deleted due to never-ending moratoria imposed by officialdom in the interests of peace on the threads.)
(Careful, Glen, if it works HERE, they may send you to Najaf!)
(The following expletives were deleted: *** , ****, *****, ****, ********** and *****!)
(The following categorizations of selected OF posters have been modified by the Provincial General of the Society of Jesus: , __.)
Thus far the words of this morning's sermonette.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
N8CPA
08-23-2004, 02:06 PM
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 23 2004,09:29)]CPA:
(This post deleted due to never-ending moratoria imposed by officialdom in the interests of peace on the threads.)
(Careful, Glen, if it works HERE, they may send you to Najaf!)
(The following expletives were deleted: #*** , ****, *****, ****, ********** and *****!)
(The following categorizations of selected OF posters have been modified by the Provincial General of the Society of Jesus: #, __.)
Thus far the words of this morning's sermonette.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
In that case, Al, Pax Domini sit semper tecum. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
k5phw
08-23-2004, 03:45 PM
Welcome aboard! The many friends I have made on the air far outweigh the negatives.
Have fun!
K9STH
08-23-2004, 03:53 PM
CPA:
Gaul ist divisos in tres partes.
Illigitimi non carborundum (note the "i" on the end of "illigitimi" which indicates plural and NOT "us" which is singular).
Glen, K9STH
(who took 3 years of Latin in high school)
WA5KRP
08-23-2004, 04:35 PM
Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ Aug. 23 2004,01:55)]New Ham, Do I want to persue this hobby?
Ham radio is pursued on the radio - not in here. Don't confuse the two or you might get the wrong idea, as implied by your question.
I HOPE you want to pursue it. You'll open the door to a very interesting compartment in your life. It's entirely up to you.
WA5KRP
Texas
Hi Bill, If you check out my license history, you will see that I have almost the same story to tell as you in the commercial catagory.
In fact, I had a 2nd class Radiotelephone a full year before I was able to get up the courage to go for the 1st. Now, like everyone else from that era, I only have the GROL http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
The same thing has happened with my Amateur Service licenses. It took me 2 years to go from Novice to Extra ( 20 wpm code ) , and thanks to the efforts of the F.C.C. my Extra is hardly worth anything more than today's General ! So I certainly know how you feel about the entire situation!
Now there are two ways you can go with this background. You can either curse the "Powers That Be" and how they have brought ruination to the Amateur and Commercial Services with all the "dumbing down" that is taking place, or you can accept it for what it is ( a mistake on behalf of the Federal Government ? - - - Nah, they NEVER MAKE MISTAKES ! ) and vow to do what you can to help others along the way that may have the same class of license you have, but are far down on the scale of real knowledge and experience.
Admittedly it is not an easy thing to do, without looking down your nose at the "raw recruit" , especially if one of them talks back at you and gives you the "you can't tell me anything. . . I already know that stuff! " ( and some will, some will ! )
Again, you can do one of two things, either shake the dirt off and keep "running the good race", or quit in disgust and dispare and take up another hobby.
I certainly hope you find a good position in your career. I was without work for over 2 years once, when I lost my position in the Broadcasting field due to remote controll operation and Federal cutbacks of operator requirements.
Life does go on, and you will persevere!
73 and good luck from Jim AG3Y
Bill,
Don't worry about any of this and get on the air! I suspect that you have a storehouse of technical knowledge and could become a valuable elmer for other people new to ham radio once you get your feet wet.
As others have said, this is a posting forum where almost anything goes and one must have some thick skin to post here if they say anything controversial
(which here could be anything from how should I build my dipole for 40 meters to why do you support Kerry of Bush to why is the ARRL doing what it seems to be doing)
I was licensed in late 1964 as a Novice and was scared to death to sit down at the key and try to make my first contact. It turned out that I did not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to put out a signal, let alone make a contact, but we all learn how over time. I qualified for the 2nd commercial in 1970 when I took my Advanced, but never worked in the industry (which was a requirement for renewal back then) and let it expire. I never took the GROL.
Just get on the air, announce your presence on the repeater, let people know that you are a newbie and have fun.
73
George
K3UD
Congradulations on getting your ticket and joining our ranks.
To answer your question, you are the only one who can determine if this hobby is worth sticking with it. #
Find someone in your area who works with APRS, HF (SSB and CW), and other modes you may be interested and give them a try. #Some things you will find quite enjoyable. (Also helps if you see some of the things in practice the books are talking about -- good Elmer can show you a few tricks that aren't even in the book!)
I never gave the world of HF much thought until I made my first contact on a $20 dipole in the back yard -- then I was hooked. #Similiar with APRS.
Take time to check things out and don't associate what you read here with Amateur Radio.
Like it has been said before, the FCC License does not make people any better, more friendly, or trustworthy. #It just means they past a requirement can can communicate on the bands assigned. #
There are plenty of great people out there and this hobby is a great way to make new friends.
Hope you stick with in.
Dan
Bill,
Welcome to the hobby. #You will get out of it an amount of enjoyment based on what you put into it. #Amateur Radio is a social (some might say anti-social) hobby. #Imagine walikin into a room with 5 strangers who know each other and trying to get into the conversation. I would dare say doing this on Amateur Radio is easier. #Yes, you might run into a goob or two, but most amateurs are a friendly lot! If you're really white nuckled about the whole thing, go to a local Amateur Club meeting, find a couple of nice folks and ask them to meet you on the air.
As for this forum, take it with a grain of salt. #For me it's a place to get into a little more depth on issues with other folks than I would go on the air. It allows the exploration of ideas and ATTITUDES. For instance, MIV said:
Quote[/b] ]I suspect that the worst of the whiners and grumps hereabouts have made themselves so unwelcome on the air that they have no other forum for their vitriol and reaction than cyberspace.
I might add that those that whine the most about how unfair the current standards are can express ideas here on the Internet that they know would get them laughed off the air. Many have been riduculed or laughed at in real life already. Hence the vitriol attitudes on QRZ when the pent up frustration is released.
I will talk to anyone on the air. If you're legal, I'll talk to you. If we just had a knock down drag out on QRZ, I'll still be happy to add you to the ol' log book. My best friend on Ham Radio is a no code tech. I spend time on 2 meters every night if nothing else but to give my buddy a call. Have fun, Bill and give me a call some time on the air!!!
KG4RYT
08-23-2004, 07:10 PM
Welcome to Ham radio http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I hope it turns out to be every thing you wanted it to be.
Yes, there are many freaks and weirdo's and other sorts, but that is what makes Ham radio fun http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I'm one of the other sorts http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KI4DYA
08-23-2004, 07:17 PM
Quote[/b] ]My concern is, with all the animosity that I see on the web, and what seems like downright HATRED of new operators, is this the sort of attitude that I am going to experience on the air ?
I don't understand something.
Everyone keeps saying there's not a lot of animosity on the air, that it's all 'happy sunshine fun', but it's not.
Now, not EVERYONE is hateful, but there's a lot of it out there. A lot of it is aimed at newer licensees. Fact.
It's not so bad until you get on HF however.
Apparently it's just me, maybe I've got a thin skin, but I looked forward to getting licensed for 14 years or so, and when I did it was a little depressing. All I really want to do is ragchew, but I'm always either on some net's personally assigned frequency, I shouldn't be in the way during a contest, I'm 'not 5X9, 73', or any number of things.
You guys can say what you want, but it appears the majority of OF's would truly be happy if the FCC would cease the licensing process and let the hobby die out with the 'old guard'.
Quote[/b] ]I am NOT getting that "Warm and fuzzy Feeling from what I have seen
After reading your posting from beginning to end twice I can only say that it is you, and only you, that can make the decision to pursue the hobby.
None of us here on this forum can guarantee that you will be happy and I doubt any of us would want to try to make such a guarantee.
What I can say is that if you don’t try you will never know and if you are never on the air, few people will ever get to know you and therefore few people will ever care if you stick with the hobby or not.
From your background I would think you have a lot to offer the hobby, but don’t expect everyone to “make nice.” Sadly, the world isn’t that way anymore (if it ever was.) You will hear things on the air that will make you question what the heck is happening to ham radio but you will hear things that makes the hobby fun as well.
If you do decide to go on the air and then start crying because everyone isn’t as friendly as you want them to be you will not have fun. Worrying about what other people have for lunch is always less enjoyable than just eating for yourself. Blatant violators of the rules will be dealt with sooner or later, although it seems to take too long in some cases.
Just hang with the people who you like and stay away from the people you don’t like. Just like real life.
In the end, if what you have seen on the internet is going to dissuade you from being active in amateur radio; it is your personal choice and yours alone.
Quote[/b] ]I really want to do is ragchew, but I'm always either on some net's personally assigned frequency, I shouldn't be in the way during a contest, I'm 'not 5X9, 73', or any number of things.
Larry, how long have you actually been licensed ? For how long of that time period have you actually been on the air. During that time on the air, how many different modes have you tried, CW, Digital, SSB, FM, AM , what ?
What I am trying to point out is that ham radio is so many things to so many different people, that you really can't condemn others until you have looked a little harder for your own particular "nitch" .
"I'm not 5X9 73" , is a very narrow criteria for acceptance in a qso, if you ask me. There are many weak signal affectionatos ( vhf ssb, cw, qrp, meteor scatter, digital signal users, etc. ) who specifically choose to work signals that are hardly audible, for the thrill and challenge of doing it !
I am an O.F. , but I certainly do not want the F.C.C. to cease the licensing process, because if they did that, they would NOT let the hobby "die out with the old guard". They would shut it down quicker than lightning, and all of us, no matter how many years we had been licensed in the hobby, would find ourselves with lots of time on our hands, and no one to talk to! ( if you catch my drift ! )
73 from Jim AG3Y
WA5KRP
08-23-2004, 08:13 PM
Quote[/b] (KC0LNU @ Aug. 23 2004,13:19)]Congradulations on getting your ticket and joining our ranks.........Hope you stick with in.
OUY! http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif
WA5KRP
Texas
KB9YCO
08-23-2004, 08:43 PM
"If the attitude that I have seen on the internet is prevalent on the amateur bands, then I have wasted my time, effort and $$$..."
Trust me, attitudes on the internet usually have little to do with reality; even though the animosty stems from true feelings, rarely do people overtly conduct themselves that way on the air. It's easier for many people to do behind a keyboard than on the air. It does happen, and there are plenty of cliques and politics like anywhere else, but not nearly as bad as what you see online.
Don't let the internet be your guide in amateur radio, let amateur radio be your guide in amateur radio. The internet is a resource with much to be taken with a grain of salt.
Enjoy the hobby & 73. Brett - KB9YCO
Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ Aug. 23 2004,13:43)]...even though the animosty stems from true feelings, rarely do people overtly conduct themselves that way on the air.
Smiling faces,
show no traces,
of the animosity,
that lurks within.
Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ Aug. 22 2004,14:13)]Quote[/b] (KC0LNU @ Aug. 23 2004,13:19)]Congradulations on getting your ticket and joining our ranks.........Hope you stick with in.
OUY! # http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif
WA5KRP
Texas
Now I don't care who you are, that's funny!
KF0RT
08-23-2004, 11:24 PM
Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 23 2004,03:08)]In my opinion you should do what you feel is best for you.If you have a true interest in Ham Radio then you already know what it is after waiting all those years. However as it has been pointed out this is not Amateur Radio,this is the internet,the two are totally separated and function totally different.Probably 95 % of those who post here on this forum really have very little knowledge of what Amateur Radio is ,was ,or was ever intended to be. Easily 60 % have no interest in the real Ham Radio,but they have social needs that can not be satisfied in other ways so they get a Freebie License and brag about how they are going to change Amateur Radio to what they want it to be.Not all but the majority,need not learn any thing new because they already have all the answers,the rest unfortunalely are hindered from learning,and gaining the experience benefits and enjoyment that TRUE Amateur radio has to offer.Until such time as you climb the ladder and attempt to enjoy the benefits of #Ham Radio in it's totality you will never know for sure.Having some back ground in Electronics you can appreciate the fact you can not learn it all in one week end,and unless you have the interest to dedicate your self to continue to learn,you might be better cutting your losses and finding some easier HOBBY.
Lots of Luck in making the correct decision that's good for you. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
You make some good points Orv. But I'm not all that sure things have changed that much. Ever since a ham could buy "a rig in a box" there have been appliance operators. This is not all bad, though.
This is still a "hobby" that is as technical as you want to make it. The sky is the limit, both literally and figuratively. And I've yet to meet a ham that is an expert in all aspects of the field. I've known people who excelled at administration of ham clubs, but couldn't tune a HF amplifier if their life depended on it. Likewise, many who excel in HF couldn't find an amateur satellite if they had a map.
It seems to me that the requirement, beyond keeping the FCC happy, is to keep your abilities in check with your operations. In other words, don't be a lid.
Back when I had to walk uphill (both ways, in the snow) to ham class, digital was RTTY and you had to know your triodes to pass the test. Technology changes, and so do the people.
So Orv... What is a REAL ham? Maybe we can start a list...
A REAL ham:
Has a thirst for knowledge. The real ham isn't satisfied knowing something works. He/she wants to know WHY.
Helps others for free. The real ham knows that things work best when the knowledge is freely exchanged and knows that the best way to learn is to teach. There will always be someone who knows more than you do, and someone who knows less.
Has good operating skills. A real ham studies the situation at least a little before jumping in.
Is compassionate. We're all human and we all make mistakes.
More...?
73, Rob (KFØRT)
W3MIV
08-23-2004, 11:28 PM
If ol' Orv were to marry Heidi, we could have ham and Swiss...
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
This thread is about out of steam, ain't it?
k6pme
08-23-2004, 11:34 PM
Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Aug. 23 2004,16:24)]A REAL ham:
Has a thirst for knowledge. #The real ham isn't satisfied knowing something works. #He/she wants to know WHY.
Helps others for free. #The real ham knows that things work best when the knowledge is freely exchanged and knows that the best way to learn is to teach. #There will always be someone who knows more than you do, and someone who knows less.
Has good operating skills. #A real ham studies the situation at least a little before jumping in. #
Is compassionate. #We're all human and we all make mistakes.
73, Rob (KFØRT)
Thats the best thing that I've read all day! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K7JBQ
08-23-2004, 11:57 PM
I agree.
Rob, well said.
73,
Bill
KF0RT
08-24-2004, 12:16 AM
Forgot one...
A real ham:
Knows he's part of an international community and treats DX as his friends no matter what country he's from. The ham community is technical first and political rarely.
I remember working Russians during the cold war in
the early 1970's. It was almost always CW because the Russians didn't have access to commercial gear. It was very hard for them to get permission from their government to operate a ham station at all. And when they did, it was up to them to figure out how to build one from scratch. They didn't exactly have a Radio Shack down the street. Here in the US, the popular rigs of the time were Kenwood TS-520's and Yaesu FT-101's. A few with money were running Drake 4-lines or Collins S-lines. Fine gear, but if you worked a UA4, you worked a ham who built his stuff from scratch.
73, Rob (KFØRT)
w5alt
08-24-2004, 12:52 AM
Back to the original post. Ham radio is what you make of it.
As others have said, forget what is posted on the internet. In all my years of hamming, I have not met the nasty hams that people keep refering to. I am forced to conclude that either I am either a) one helluva lucky SOB, b) the most likeable ham in the world (yeah .... right), or c) the stories are exaggerated. I can prove that a) and b) are false, so it must be c). I'm sure there may be exceptions, but all (and I do mean all) of the hams I know will chat with anyone and when they give someone a little ribbing, it means you've been accepted in the group.
In the meantime I've made many friends with ham radio. Some I've met in person, others I haven't. And I don't just mean near my home - I mean internationally. I've also learned more about lots of things - often far more than I ever wanted to know in the first place!
So you decide. If it's for you, forget the internet and get on the air! If not, it's your decision.
73,
Walt, W5ALT
Quote[/b] (W3MIV @ Aug. 23 2004,05:01)]As a test, I could post a message about the Immaculate Conception, or the state of sturgeon fishing in Siberia, or the best gefilte fish recipe, and there are folks on these fora who will come in and turn that into a harangue on the wretched state of amateur radio today.
Absurd. Ridiculous. Couldn't happen. I mean, what possible route could one take from the Immaculate Conception, to ham radio? IC? IC, for integrated circuit? The kind we find in our modern radios? Part of the high technology that makes working on our own radios out of the reach of most amateurs? We're
appliance operators. And the gap between our know-how and the technology widens further as the hobby dumbs-down. The gap widens until our little black boxes are beyond our immaculate conception! AHHHHH! THE HOBBY IS GOING TO HELL!
Ok, maybe you have a point. But Fish? Now that is total bulls**t. Fish are nothing like ham radio. Unless, of course, you make the stretch of all stretches by suggesting that dropping a fishing line into an unseen realm, to see what you catch, is remotely like sending a CQ into an unseen realm, to see what you catch.
Heh, heh. Hmm. Well, I guess you could also consider catching fish in a "net." Yeah, a net. Like a radio net. And, come to think of it, you do see waves propagate along the surface of the water, bringing to mind the propagation of EM waves through space. And the schools of fish swim into your net. At least they
used to, before the dumbing down of fish. Fish are no longer required to swim in schools. And we have seen that fish are barely distinguishable from ham radio, therefore WE must be dumbing-down with the fish, and AHHHHH! THE HOBBY IS GOING TO HELL!
Well, ok, I may have to concede your fish points, too. But everything else you said is nonsense.
N7AAO
08-24-2004, 01:37 AM
KN6Z, thanks for a great laugh! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
WA5KRP
08-24-2004, 04:28 AM
Quote[/b] (W9NGC @ Aug. 23 2004,23:20)]While I agree for the most part that this is the internet,
not amateur radio, one thing has been nagging me
for a while........just what is going on here?
Sir,
You expect that to be EXPLAINED to you? Or something?
Now THAT'S FUNNY!
WA5KRP
Texas
K6UEY
08-24-2004, 04:48 AM
W9NGC, "Just what is going on here?"
WHO CARES!! No one takes the Internet serious,it is like a giant ship on the high sea's with the pilot drunk and passed out at the wheel.The internet just wanders around out of total control,with no one caring or concerned. Don't worry about it,no one has to turn in a book report on monday!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif The Internet is the greatest gathering of crooks, con-men,thieves, and the curious,since Ali Baba discovered the cave.The Internet is a place where people can shed their responsibility to be a decent person,they can lie, cheat, and then hide behind mommy's skirt when some one say's "Who Said that??" The Internet is another 21st Century Cyber World place to hide from reality."Wake up TOTO,this is not Kansas any more." #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
k5rna
08-24-2004, 05:39 AM
LIX.I will try and keep this as simple as i can so others #might understand.A ham is any one with a ham license.Peroid.Sure,many of us felt tha same about the hobby being dumbed down as you did about the phone licenses.The fellow who helped me get into ham radio was an electronic tech for the FAA so i can understand what you went thru.When he got the extra he didn't even study for it because it was simple compaired
to what one had to learn to get the 1st or 2nd class phone ticket.He already knew the code as he was ex navy.And as you know now days they only memorize the questins and anwsers,not learn the theory as most claim.So jump in there and keep in mind you know more about electronics,antennas,freqs,etc than most will ever know unless they were schooled in electronics.And your kind is why most dont get the phone license?LOL.And i thought i had read it all on here.Have fun and ignore the screw balls and know it alls. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
K6BBC
08-24-2004, 06:19 AM
Stop worrying about what others are thinking and doing. Just get on with operating. You can make it as good as you want.
K6BBC
w5klb
08-24-2004, 06:48 AM
Quote[/b] (k5rna @ Aug. 23 2004,22:39)]A ham is any one with a ham license.Peroid.
Really? I thought a ham was someone who was polite respectful, enjoyed learning, and operated his rig "beyond reproach".
Heck, ANYONE can get a license including a LID.
Having a license does not necessarily make you a ham. There is, IMHO, a BIG difference between a LID and a ham and both of them have a license.
k5rna
08-24-2004, 06:58 AM
Not sure what you mean by a lid.I have some on jars,and if i am not mistaken lid was a term used on CB radio about 40 years ago.
LIX.I rest my case. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
K6UEY
08-24-2004, 09:11 AM
K5RNA,
Well sorry to throw cold water on your theory,but the term "LID" was well in use in Amateur Radio before I got involved over 50 years ago. You are also a little confused about the meaning of Ham Radio also, as KD5WPW pointed out it has always been (since I've been around) that any one who was willing to study could get an Amateur License, but the term "HAM" had 2 meanings,when talking as a group the word HAM was all encompassing,incuding both those who were credible Amateurs and others,when used in reference to one specific "HAM" it meant a point of respect,some one who's operational skills were a notch above average.I am well aware that the traditions and morale values of the past are no longer considered of value to the new 21st Century crowd,but they are the interloper into Amateur Radio and as long as I'm still able, I will continue to use the time honored definition.
Of course by todays standards any one who with a little study, who learns to spell their name correctly can get an Amateur license, they of course are the neophyte and have no operational skills, but it is not unusual for a beginner to start at the bottom and learn to develop the skills to become a "HAM OPERATOR". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
N8CPA
08-24-2004, 09:17 AM
Quote[/b] (kn6z @ Aug. 23 2004,16:56)]Quote[/b] (KB9YCO @ Aug. 23 2004,13:43)]...even though the animosty stems from true feelings, rarely do people overtly conduct themselves that way on the air.
Smiling faces,
show no traces,
of the animosity,
that lurks within.
(Can you dig it?)
Smiling faces, sometiiiiiiiiimes...
kg6saj
08-24-2004, 09:52 AM
FINALLY I get it... I knew if I kept reading these threads long enough, it would all make sense. My problem was, I was confused by taking all of this seriously. You pranksters really had me going. Here I thought the backbiting was for real... just call me Joe Naive. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Like they say, live and learn.
And Bill - KB3LIX, like they're saying, just get in there and do it. Just be yourself and don't worry about the nit-wits you come across. Do yourself the favor of enjoying these forums and ham radio. You've earned it.
73
Tim
k5rna
08-24-2004, 11:02 AM
UEY.I am almost 72 years old and as far back as i can remember no one knows where the term ham for anatuer radio oraginated.There have been many theories.You may need to read that again.Theories.Also,i don't know what freq's you hung out on but i never heard the term lid used on the ham bands.Of course i haven't been active in the hobby for a 3 or 4 years so my guess would be it came from CB.And i am ot knocking CB operators.
The shadow may know but he ain't telling. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
N8CPA
08-24-2004, 11:06 AM
Quote[/b] (K9STH @ Aug. 23 2004,11:53)]CPA:
Gaul ist divisos in tres partes.
Illigitimi non carborundum (note the "i" on the end of "illigitimi" which indicates plural and NOT "us" which is singular).
Glen, K9STH
(who took 3 years of Latin in high school)
Ite missa est.
[Sundays at Sainte Marien Kirche, as the corner stone said, followed by 2 years of highschool Latin]
Nemus et hoc in se continet Castrum Strivelinse. [Motto of my Scottish ancestors county of origin]
Indeed, illegitimati is the plural of illegitimatvs. And it just drives me nvts when people complete that phrase with est, instead of svnt. "Illegitimatvs non carborvndvm est" and "Illegitimati non carborvndvm svnt" are correct, except that we could quibble over whether carborundum should be a plural genitive or a plural abaltive, or a sinular or plural substantive.
Wasn't Latin fun? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
k5rna
08-24-2004, 11:14 AM
Laten?? I can't even spell it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K6UEY
08-24-2004, 11:21 AM
K5RNA,
Well you may be right, about no one knowing for sure any more,I can only relate back to 1947 that's when I took an interest and the old timers of the day told me both terms "HAM, LID", were in common usuage at that time. And yes I have heard several stories over the years as to their origination,I tend to lean toward the explanation passed on by the OT's of the day as opposed to some of the Urban Legends.As in Electronics Theory, I find some of the newer people find it easier to make it up as they go instead of sitting down to an open book. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
k5rna
08-24-2004, 11:30 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KF0RT
08-24-2004, 12:45 PM
Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 24 2004,03:11)]...incuding both those who were credible Amateurs and others,when used in reference to one specific "HAM" it meant a point of respect,some one who's operational skills were a notch above average.
Then, by definition, half of us are "lids?" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K6UEY
08-24-2004, 03:07 PM
KFØRT,
Well looks like you got me there,I sure can not argue against that statement !!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
KA9VQF
08-24-2004, 04:34 PM
I have been old by many OT’s that the term ham in reference to amateur radio operators came from commercial/professional/broadcast operators. Back in the early days of radio, broadcasters had a certain animosity toward the amateur operators who were vying for the same frequencies.
The professional broadcast people being from acting/entertainment backgrounds #naturally brought some of their specialized lingo with them to the radio when they started to become air personalities. The term ‘ham’ was already well established in the acting/entertainment #trade.
When amateurs would get on the air and interfere with the commercial broadcasters comments were made about how everyone wants to get in the act and these hams were doing it by interfering with the legitimate business concerns of the broadcasters.
WA5KRP
08-24-2004, 04:50 PM
Quote[/b] (k5rna @ Aug. 24 2004,06:02)]I am almost 72 years old and as far back as i can remember no one knows where the term ham for anatuer radio oraginated..........Also,i don't know what freq's you hung out on but i never heard the term lid used on the ham bands.
RNA,
I was licensed 40 years ago and have never heard the definitive explanation of the origination of the term "ham". #Even the ARRL has no reference it can point to with authority.
As for the term "lid", before I had earned my ticket in 1964, Bob Blanchard, W5KPH, had me spend many hours at his side while he operated and he taught me good operating principles. #He also pointed out operators who didn't know what they were doing or were a general nuisance. #With scorn in his voice, he called those guys lids. #
One of his sternest admonitions as I embarked on my novice career still rings in my ear, "Danny, I've taught you how to operate a radio. #I better not ever hear you operate like a lid." #I still heed his warning. #I always hated the thought of him being ashamed of me.
How you missed hearing the term "lid" on the air I'll never know. #But I bet you've heard a few, no matter what you call 'em.
73
WA5KRP
Texas
k5rna
08-25-2004, 10:55 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
w5klb
08-25-2004, 01:04 PM
All I know is that the term "LID" is NOT a term of endearment for ANY Amateur.
RNA:
I am NOT ashamed of fact that I did start out on 11 meters nor do I regret the fact that I ever got my license. I will be the FIRST to tell you that when it comes to being an Amateur that I am not exactly "the sharpest tack in the box", but I am learning. That's why I got my license. I have found that the MAJORITY of Amateurs who I talk to, or post here, are good, honest, decent people, who have probably forgotten more about the radio art than I will ever know. This far better than lisening on to an "radio expert" on 11 meters trying to convince me and everyone else that you only transmitt off the top 2 (two) inches of an antenna and are limted to coax that can only be 27 ft in length. Gawd, I nearly wrecked my truck LMAO when I heard that one! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #
BTW, I was an instructor in the US Navy on basic electricty, and basic electronics. I worked on BIG generators and Mobile electric power plants that supported aircraft. I did this for many years. So, I am not exactly clueless about some of the technical aspects of the Service as you eluded to in your post towards me.
Don't worry OM, what you or anyone else thinks about me has NO bearing here at my QTH whatsoever. This is the internet don'tchaknow. I don't take you or anyone else THAT seriously. I continue to sleep very well thankyouverymuch.
w5klb
08-25-2004, 01:49 PM
Quote[/b] (kg6saj @ Aug. 24 2004,02:52)]FINALLY I get it... I knew if I kept reading these threads long enough, it would all make sense. My problem was, I was confused by taking all of this seriously. You pranksters really had me going. Here I thought the backbiting was for real... just call me Joe Naive. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Like they say, live and learn.
"Never take life too seriously-it ain't nohow permenant."
(W3SY's quote from "Pogo" TNX Steve)
Repeat after me: "This is only the internet... This is only the internet..."
Now don't you feel better? Now don that abestos flame suit, have the incenderary devices at the ready, and wade on in. Having thick skin is a necessary accessory for posting on T&O.
ae2ny
08-25-2004, 03:57 PM
I'll tell ya one thing my Elmer told me one day...
He said to be a success in this hobby, a glass jaw definitely would crash me completely out of the game. Have a steel jaw and a firm resolve, and that'll get me places.
During a shelter net, I had a Net Control Operator literally yell at me on the air, because I forgot to get the Signature on the Radiogram Form for passing NTS Traffic. I almost quit that night and went home and said to hell with EmComm. But then my Elmer's words came back to me, and just yesterday, talked to the NCO on the air on local 2M, swallowed my pride and apologized for continuing the bad blood that was there.
We've both agreed to put it behind us, it's over and in the past, and time to move on. Just got done with a 30 minute QSO with him on local 2M as he's going to Port Charlotte which is where I just came from. We may have our disagreements, but we're still friends. And to me, that's what this hobby is all about.
73
Anthony - KI4VPR
I have to agree with some of what Steve (UZR) posted in reply to the initial post. If you base your entire amateur radio experience based upon the writings of a very limited few, then yes, you will have a distorted view of this hobby.
I could say the same thing about watching individuals that go to church and then watch them throughout the week. Or, watch someone talk about driving fast, speeding, and they themselves doing it.
This hobby is more then the writings on a few boards, forums, etc. I could judge this hobby by listening to some off color no-code techs on 2 meters or some foul mouthed idiot extras on 75. What does it prove?
I could turn the dial and listen in on a great QSO, listening to someone running a phone patch to KC4AAA, listen to someone passing traffic, etc.
If all you can focus on is the negativity of a few, then yes, you will have a tainted image, and to be sure, we should ALL do it better, albeit, on here, on the air, etc.
Don't let a few sour apples ruin your pie. Add a bit more sugar!
Quote[/b] (wa5krp @ Aug. 23 2004,21:28)]Quote[/b] (W9NGC @ Aug. 23 2004,23:20)]While I agree for the most part that this is the internet,
not amateur radio, one thing has been nagging me
for a while........just what is going on here?
Sir,
You expect that to be EXPLAINED to you? #Or something?
Now THAT'S FUNNY!
WA5KRP
Texas
This 'if I can describe it' is a venting forum, more or less.
I don't take comments or postings that serious.
I read them and move on, taking a moment now and then to correct something that may be in obvious error.
Otherwise, the stupidity it displays can stand out to everyone, and it's ignorance will be obvious to the casual readers. That is one reason I won't bow to responding to name calling, personal attacks, etc. Some individuals cannot hold a honest debate, forum or discussion without it. I choose to ignore it.
This is the internet, not for the most part, it is just that.
It is a website about amateur radio related issues and topics. I suppose I don't fully understand what you might have been wanting to know?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
kg6saj
08-26-2004, 08:24 AM
Quote[/b] (kd5wpw @ Aug. 25 2004,06:49)]Repeat after me: "This is only the internet...
Now don that abestos flame suit, have the incenderary devices at the ready, and wade on in. Having thick skin is a necessary accessory for posting on T&O.
Ok Gary, thanks for your words of encouragement.
I haven't done the newsgroup/talk-forum kind of thing before I started posting on QRZ. And I've only been on here since the recent board changeover, as you can probably tell by my posting count. But I'm starting to figure things out.
I liked the comment about the flame suit. But I doubt there's anything that could be said here on the internet that would hurt my feelings. It usually takes a face-to-face to accomplish that.
Either way I'm not one to flame others because I tend to be more of a nice guy than a rude guy. Stopped being a put-down artist when I grew out of adolescence, hope that doesn't disappoint anybody. But I am getting older and becoming a little grumpier. Who knows, I might fit in a little better as time goes by. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
At this point, my approach is much like a duck's. Enjoy the good things that come along, let the bad things roll off my back, and just keep paddling along with a smile on my face.
73
Tim
w5klb
08-26-2004, 02:00 PM
Quote[/b] (kg6saj @ Aug. 26 2004,01:24)]Quote[/b] (kd5wpw @ Aug. 25 2004,06:49)]Repeat after me: "This is only the internet...
Now don that abestos flame suit, have the incenderary devices at the ready, and wade on in. Having thick skin is a necessary accessory for posting on T&O.
Ok Gary, thanks for your words of encouragement.
I haven't done the newsgroup/talk-forum kind of thing before I started posting on QRZ. And I've only been on here since the recent board changeover, as you can probably tell by my posting count. But I'm starting to figure things out.
I liked the comment about the flame suit. But I doubt there's anything that could be said here on the internet that would hurt my feelings. It usually takes a face-to-face to accomplish that.
Either way I'm not one to flame others because I tend to be more of a nice guy than a rude guy. Stopped being a put-down artist when I grew out of adolescence, hope that doesn't disappoint anybody. But I am getting older and becoming a little grumpier. Who knows, I might fit in a little better as time goes by. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
At this point, my approach is much like a duck's. Enjoy the good things that come along, let the bad things roll off my back, and just keep paddling along with a smile on my face.
73
Tim
Tim, SAJ:
You are quite welcome!
Just keep in mind that THIS site, and others like it, is not, I repeat NOT, Amateur Radio. Like one other Amateur posted, It's just a forum for venting, and as long as you follow Glen's "rules of the road" you won't have a problem. Most people, like myself, really don't take none of this stuff that's posted here that seriously.
It's real simple. If you find something that will help on this site-great. Take what you think you need and discard the rest as flotsum and jetsum (trash). Other than that, enjoy and have some fun! And isn't that what you pursued this Service and hobby for in the first place?
Fair Winds and Following Seas (sailor speak for "good luck").
W0UZR
08-26-2004, 07:18 PM
When I first got on here, I was tearing people a new,,,"00ps",, I mean I was jumping on people left and right that didn't agree with me, and disagreed with me quite a bit.
And I got my share of talkings to from Glen. So this thing take some getting used to, and you grow a thick skin. I said stuff here that I wouldn't think of saying anywhere else, and ranted and raved early on, makes me think that I am opening a door and allowing a sprit to come in and when I get into this posting stuff. Like how a person changes when he drinks booze.
Maybe we should have an age limit on posting.
"Attention QRZ Users; Due to the fact that young people that post here are much better mannered, we now have an age limit of that no one over the age of 16 can post."
WA5KRP
08-26-2004, 08:12 PM
Quote[/b] (kb0uzr @ Aug. 26 2004,14:18)]When I first got on here, I was tearing people a new,,,"00ps",, I mean I was jumping on people left and right that didn't agree with me, and disagreed with me quite a bit.
And I got my share of talkings to from Glen. #So this thing take some getting used to, and you grow a thick skin. #I said stuff here that I wouldn't think of saying anywhere else, and ranted and raved early on, makes me think that I am opening a door and allowing a sprit to come in and when I get into this posting stuff. Like how a person changes when he drinks booze.
Maybe we should have an age limit on posting.
Do I understand your post correctly? Because you let your alligator mouth run away in here you propose an age limit be imposed?
I don't think everybody posts that way in here.
WA5KRP
Texas
K6UEY
08-26-2004, 08:22 PM
I was under the impression there was an age preference already in place,by the range of topics it would appear that Kindergarten and elementary levels are encouraged. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
n9lya
09-25-2004, 08:02 PM
Welcome to what can be a wonderful hobby...
As you are obviously well aware it can be quite contrary...
My best recommendation for the faint hearted is..
1) Stay away from EHAM QRZ ... Any internet Ham Community...
2) Find your niche in the Hobby and stick with a small dedicated group that share the same specific interest(s).
3) Do not get overly involved with such a group as it will eventually fall apart due to someone or some joining with ideas that they can take this group over..
4) Lock you self in your shack and be prepared to spin the dial when you happen on a freqeuncy where they do not want new comers...
Other then this.. I have found a nice niche.. Where I can talk to a select few and ignor those I need to ignor..
Its called Packet Radio... Kinda like email over RF...
I do wish to point out... I find the majority of those I have met in Ham Radio to be of the better quality...
I have persoanlly met very few on ham radio...
I see a lot on the internet where they tend to be more verbal.. and obnoxious... But even then its not a large gathering of idiots..
So enjoy... Do not let the NAY SAYERS get to you..
I do HF voice.. And have for about 6 months... And as todate I have ran across 0 (ZERO) bad hams... Maybe I am lucky... But I truely believe most hams are good..
Stick with the Hobby... !!!
73 Jerry N9LYA
kg4kww
09-26-2004, 05:09 AM
KB3LIX, I too tested and got my 3rd class Radio telephone linces with a element 9 indorsement in 1973 and it's been upgraded to Gen Radio Op. I agree with you, as far as people making you feel like you are nothing with out code. Well I want to tell you, you are something, a amateur radio operator with UHF/VHF band access. Maybe you should try 2 meter, 440 and 6 meter ssb. It's a lot of fun and you can make DX contacts, it's also a good way to build skills for when you do upgrade to HF.
I'm in code class for the second time trying to learn this stuff. Code is not easy to learn and takes a lot of time. Something that there's not a lot of in the fast paced modern world of ours. I try to practice when I can, that's one reason it's taking me a while to learn, the other is I have a hearing problem with tone. When I said this to other hams, it's like so what, I don't want to hear it. My response is hey kiss my foot, I'm in ham radio for me not them and I will go at my own pace and will upgrade when ready.
In the mean time give UHF.VHF ssb a try and enjoy the hobby.
73
WA2ZDY
09-26-2004, 11:45 AM
Bill, welcome and get on the air. The world of being on the air is very different. But you have already read dozens of posts that say that. You need to try it. And yes, at the radio club meeting, you stand up and introduce yourself. At the club I'm with, we all introduce ourselves at the start of each meeting. Visitors thus get known and to know us.
Yes, FCC with much help from ARRL has dumbed down ham radio. Why? Speculation could take us in many directions, possibly all correct and possibly none. It's pointless. My philosophy is the newer hams passed the exams put before them and that's all they can be expected to do. It's not the new guys' fault nobody expects much of them. So as long as they act right, they're treated right by me. And most do act right.
After too-long an absence from HF I got myself back on last winter. I have to say, dumbed down or not, HF still sounds pretty good to me. So yes, pass that 5wpm and join us down there. And if you want to work on your CW once you pass it, you'll find me on the low end.
The other thing I see happening with your experience is lots of guys coming to you for technical help once they find out you know stuff. That could be a good thing, or it could be a burden. You'll find the way to handle that works best for you. It might just be your ticket to faster "acceptance" too.
Good luck, hang in there, you have a lot to offer. Don't let the . . . well, Glen said it already.
73
KA8NCR
09-26-2004, 01:41 PM
Look at how many idiots are on the Internet and that didn't stop you from getting online. Or, the expressways and I bet you drive to work every day.
The idiot ratio on amateur radio is surprisingly low when compared to real-life. Even then, most of the idiots are if not quite tolerable, downright entertaining.
Already 8 pages and growing but I'll throw in a couple of comments.
Funny how this same thread re-emerges about, oh, once a month or so. Some new ham or prospective ham reads the QRZ pages and gets discouraged, then ponders whether or not getting a ham license is the right thing to do.
When I first got into ham radio, I was 13 and in Jr. High. I had a great mentor who was an electronics technician. He and a friend of his who happened to live nearby helped me learn about what ham radio was and provided a lot of encouragement. Very patient, encouraging, calm, always willing to help, and educated about electronics to a very high level. Their on-air demeanor was always top notch and professional. They were family men and ham radio was an important part of their lives but not their entire lives by any stretch.
Unfortunatly, I've learned over the years that they were a rare breed of ham. There are others like them to be sure, but they are not very common. While most of my experiences on the air have been very pleasant, I have found that fewer and fewer hams are as helpful/friendly as in years past. There seems to be more and more bickering at ham clubs and I don't bother attending any of them any more.
I've also found that the electronics or "tech" industry in general has some pretty rough characters in it. If you are sensitive or thin skinned, a lot of these folks will not make you a happy camper! But that's just been my experience. I think you can still find enjoyment in this hobby, particularly on the tinkering/technical side as opposed to always being an operator. You just have to pick your spots. 73
ai4ep
09-26-2004, 02:53 PM
Yep....like posted earlier...
look how many idiots there are on the highway that YOU see in just one trip TO work ( not including the ones you see on the way home ).
Look how many idiots there are here in thie web site ( myself included )...yet here you are here too. Aint it nice to be around folks you have something in common with ? ( me, too )
Look how many idiot neighbors you have , posting KERRY / BUSH signs in their front yard, like you knowing who they are going to vote for is going to change or enhance your vote. ( there is that ENHANCE word, which tv ad did I see it in ? ) {hee hee hee }
ai4ep
WA7KKP
09-27-2004, 02:24 AM
As a fellow broadcaster and holder of the coveted First Phone Licence (since 1970) I have found ham radio a great way to open doors that would normally be closed.
Many hams are in electronics other than broadcasting --- two-way radio being the most common. I've found many hams as sources for items I have needed in repairing broadcast transmitters, just by checking out their junk boxes.
Now if you want only to just chat to your coffee klatch buddies, then getting a Tech ticket is all you need. But if you wish to expand your electronic knowlege, beyond the rudimentary basics, then go for broke -- get a General and then the Extra Class tickets, and experiment with some of the more exotic modes -- there are many places to apply your expertise.
An old friend, Dean Jansma, was CE of a tv station for years, interested in ham radio but never got a licence until he retired. He got a no-code Tech and found packet radio fascinating to no end. Sorry to say that he's SK now, but he told me he regretted not getting a ham licence when he was younger.
You get out of it what you put into it. For me, it was the doorway that gave me a great broadcasting career, and my curiosity has yet to be satiated. I'm still learning after over 35 years in ham radio. Now I'm elmering the new kids on how to fix those old boatanchor radios of the golden era.
Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP
I would have to agree with what "UZR" posted after your initial posting. If you base ALL of amateur radio on what you read on here, you are getting a very minor picture (small picture) of amateur radio. Just as someone flips you off on the highway for no reason, doesn't mean the entire driving force on the highway has that mentality.
I think that being too thin skinned may cause an individual to see one negative as the rule rather then the exception. I think you will find many of "us" on here accepting of other license classes, contrary to what you may think you are reading.
Keep in mind too, some of the negative postings also have come from some of the "lower" class licensees with biased and unfounded statements against those of higher class licenses. Neither position holds much credibility.
N1XHF
09-27-2004, 12:54 PM
Quote[/b] (K6UEY @ Aug. 22 2004,03:08)]Probably 95 % of those who post here on this forum really have very little knowledge of what Amateur Radio is ,was ,or was ever intended to be.
I know this is just an opinion and taken out of context but I would have to say your statistics are way off on this one. I find there are a lot of folks on this web site that are very knowledgeable about the history of amateur radio and have a lot to contribute.