Windows XP service pack 2

[w6ez]

So how many of you are going to rush to install Windows Service pack 2?

I just got a big email from my ISP with detailed instructions on how to install their "patch" to make my browser software run with the new SP2 "patch."

Then, I found that my firewall software has to have it's own SP2 "patch."

So I started looking at the different websites for the software I have on my computer and found 12 other "patches" for the SP2 "patch." I was just getting started on my list of programs so I just quit looking.

I know microsoft calls this SP2 "patch" an UPgrade. They called SP1 an upgrade as well, but it downgraded a lot of computers. I have a few friends who bought new computers just as SP1 was released and their new "fast" computers were upgraded to real dogs when they installed SP1.

I am now looking at a new "upgrade" to the SP2 "patch" and then a lot of "patches" to make the current software run with the new "patch."

..whoopie..

[N7AAO]

Welcome to the world of computer software... don't write it right the first time, just send out a patch!

[KC7UP]

I haven't heard about this info on xp. I have sp1 on my computer from the start so not privy to how it would run without it. From what is being saying about sp2 then I don't think I will install it. My ISP hasn't said a word about it yet.
Curt

[w6ez]

Well a lot of new programs may not run without SP2.

here is microsoft's short list of programs that "MAY" have problems with SP2. (If MS says it may have problems you can bet they have found out that it does have problems.)

Miscrosfot's program list (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2)

[K4AY]

I have been using Service Pack 2 since it was in beta and have had no trouble with it. Considering all the benefits it brings to those who don't patch and manage their computers any better than they do, it will be beneficial. Each day at work, I am amazed at how many systems come into the shop with nary a patch on them. For all the concern about problems, it would be better to install it and see what happens. There are many programs that will require adjustment, but these settings are not difficult to make.

Chris

[w6ez]

Quote[/b] ]I have been using Service Pack 2 since it was in beta and have had no trouble with it.

Thanks for the info! Nice to know that some one is already running it.

I just installed another hard drive and I am going to use norton ghost to make a "cloned" image of it just before I do the SP2 thing. At least that way I can get back to square one should everything come to a screeching halt.

[n3ijw]

I rolled it out to a handful of dev machines at home and at work, they haven't blown up (yet). Waiting for MS to push it via windows update and keeping an eye on bugtraq before I deploy it network-wide in a month or so.

There are many reasons to install SP2 and very few to avoid it. Far too many unpatched systems out there.

Only annoyance I've found so far is the security center, which will hopefully prod the less-geeky among us into maintaining their systems a little more diligently, but for me it just gets in the way so it is now disabled.

Interesting to note that unlike previous service packs, this one by default creates backups of all the files it replaces and does not give you the option to skip that. So no more kamikaze un-uninstallable service pack rollouts.

[N7AAO]

I think I am gonna wait a bit... I just looked at the list of incompatibles, and it includes the firewall/antivirus/security software I use... and I trust it a lot more than I trust Microsoft.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[KI4DYA]

Most of the software incompatibilites are either with those goofy firewalls that run on your local machine or programs that access/transfer data remotely and thus can't due to the firewall now being on by default.

I've been running SP2 since release day and have had no issues, of course I don't run a goofy firewall on my workstation, and I keep all their goofy crap turned off.

So far most of the problems I've seen reported are due to user ignorance.

[N7AAO]

DYA, I would hardly call McAfee a "goofy" firewall. In fact, it is one of the best I have used.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[KI4DYA]

Actually, I consider any firewall running on a local machine running any version of Windows to be goofy.

There are several reasons for this, one of them being how tightly tied to the OS level the application layer is. Another being that it's better to head off intrusion attempts BEFORE they get to your machine, once you've hit the local box you're halfway in.

If you're running IE, you might as well just turn off all your protection.

If you've got broadband, the best thing you can do is buy a decent router, most of them have a nice firewall built in. Another option (and actually THIS is the best option), buy a P90, put either E-Smith Server on it, or ClarkConnect along with a couple of NICs and use IT as your firewall/router/email/web/ftp server.

If you DO buy a regular broadband router, ditch the regular OS that's in it and install one of the Linux distros designed for those routers. MUCH better security and actually pretty easy to configure.

So yup, sorry if it bugs you, but any firewall on a Windows box is kinda goofy. It's a false sense of security and it mainly just serves to slow down your system.

[N7AAO]

Oh, so I should just leave my computer completely vulnerable to outside attacks? I think not. And I know better than to run IE or Outlook Express.

Please don't try to make this into an anti-Windows, pro-Linux, or pro-Mac thread.

[KC0LFV]

hmm... Kinda interesting that even Microsoft's own programs don't work with their service pack. i.e. Microsoft Office, (which includes Word, Excel, Publisher, etc.).

[KI4DYA]

Quote[/b] ]Oh, so I should just leave my computer completely vulnerable to outside attacks?

Please read the rest of my post before jumping to conclusions.

As I said before, if you're relying on a localhost firewall to protect your system, you're vulnerable to outside attacks already.

Quote[/b] ]Please don't try to make this into an anti-Windows, pro-Linux, or pro-Mac thread.

Didn't even start getting into that. Again, you really should read and comprehend a bit more before jumping the gun.

[n3ijw]

Quote[/b] (KC0LFV @ Aug. 19 2004,00:31)]hmm... Kinda interesting that even Microsoft's own programs don't work with their service pack. #i.e. #Microsoft Office, (which includes Word, Excel, Publisher, etc.).
I have not seen compatibility issues with either Office XP or 2003 (or any other apps) yet. Not saying they don't exist, because they do and many are documented (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2), but "don't work" is false and most problems can be corrected with a simple OS configuration change.

I will NEVER trust the security features in XP. The built in firewall is the worst in the world! It is the easiest to hack through, and all Windows apps. are granted connections without asking a thing. Thats why I run independent Antivirus and Firewall software.(Sorry about being Anti-Microsoft).

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (M3RWE @ Aug. 19 2004,08:51)]I will NEVER trust the security features in XP. The built in firewall is the worst in the world! It is the easiest to hack through, and all Windows apps. are granted connections without asking a thing. Thats why I run independent Antivirus and Firewall software.(Sorry about being Anti-Microsoft).
I don't trust Microsoft's so-called firewall either... that's why I went with a 3rd party firewall.

My point earlier was, calling running any firewall "goofy" is really not very wise... a good 3rd party firewall (and there are several for XP) is far better than running no firewall at all. That's why I suspected that the gentleman who said that was aiming for a pro-Linux or pro-Mac diatribe. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KI4DYA]

Pro-Linux/Mac, so what if I am?
Why is it a bad thing if I'm a fan of a superior OS design?

Here's how I explain OS layers to my clients, and it's a damned good representation too.

Look at a bottle of Italian dressing. After it's been sitting for a while, there are distinct separate layers of materials. This represents OS' such as MacOSX, Linux, BSD.

Grab the bottle and shake it furiously.
There's Windows.

Quote[/b] ]My point earlier was, calling running any firewall "goofy" is really not very wise

Get over yourself buddy.
I'm calling half-arsed, well-marketed, do-nothing, in-machine firewalls running on SPECIFICALLY the Windows platform goofy.

Why do I specify Windows? Because of the OS design and the way applications are run on top of the kernel.
Please stop envisioning yourself as some sort of 'holy avenger' protecting the good name of Windows. Jesus why is it with you Windows people anytime someone points out a flaw, you go nuts and assume it's a 'bash Windows, anti-Microsoft, Pro-Linux/Mac thing'?

What ticks me off more than anything else isn't that you've convinced yourself you're right, you might convince someone who doesn't know any better you are.

Whatever man, you're obviously the expert. You've obviously got a different version of Windows than everyone else. You're secure.

But do you ever run Windows Update?
Synchronize your time via NTS?
Login with an Admin account?
Use Passport?
Run Media Player?
Turn off unneeded background services?

Bah, I'm just talking out of my butt.
Everyone else is wrong, you've got it figured out. Congrats.

[N7AAO]

Just tell me one thing... what is such an anti-Windows person doing posting in a thread primarily for Windows users?

Maybe because you feel you have the Holy Grail of Computing, and need to convert all us heathens to it?

I am studying for my A+ certification right now, and while I admit that Windows does have it's problems, it has shown a much better track record of stability since going to the NT kernel.

Also, I have checked with independent sites, and with my current firewall, my computer is totally invisible to the internet. It also requires that every program that wants internet access (incoming or outgoing) be approved by me. The anti-virus not only scans all e-mails, but also all instant messages, and watches for suspicious disk activity, as well as other suspicious activity (like sending more than 3 e-mails with the same subject line) and alerts me about them. That's a well-made program.

Before I bought my latest Windows machine, I thoroughly investigated Linux and Mac. Quite simply, they don't offer the kind of operability I want, and have nowhere near the software selection. So why not let me run my computer the way I want to? I promise not to blame you if, by chance, some hacker does find his way in.

It's called freedom of choice.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[w6ez]

Find out which OS you should really be using and quit fighting about it.

Your best OS (http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php)

I still like amiga OS 3
I think I still have a kickstart 3 machine or two here.

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ Aug. 19 2004,11:15)]Find out which OS you should really be using and quit fighting about it.

Your best OS (http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php)

I still like amiga OS 3
I think I still have a kickstart 3 machine or two here.
I know exactly which OS I want to run... as I said, I investigated the "big 3" quite thoroughly before buying my latest PC, which was less than a year ago.

I remember the days of the Amiga... my first PC was a Vic-20, then I went to the 64 and then to the 128 (which was a rip-off, even back then no one was using CP/M), and then to IBM-compatibles and Macs... stopped using Macs, and stuck with the PCs. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w6ez]

SpartaDOS

I ran that for a long time.

[N7AAO]

I don't recall SpartaDOS... what platform was that one on?

[KI4DYA]

I'm not arguing about running Windows. I'm posting from a Windows machine.

A windows machine sitting BEHIND a firewall.
A+ certs are of absolutely no use in this conversation, so quit trying to impress everyone.

The fact remains, that a software firewall running on a LOCAL machine is near-useless.

If you really want to be secure, whether you're running OSX, *nix, OS/2, BEOS, whatthefreakingever, you put a firewall at the HEAD of your network.

Yup, Windows HAS shown a much better track record lately, who was disputing that? What I said was, the architecture of the Windows kernel/system relationship wasn't optimal for a secure-minded system.

You're missing the point due to your Windows zealotry. I'm not bashing Windows. I'm bashing running a service on your LOCAL machine.

Those 'independant scanners' you talk about do not try to compromise your machine, they simply attempt to scan for ports. Period. No cracker's going to simply scan for ports.

Quote[/b] ]Before I bought my latest Windows machine, I thoroughly investigated Linux and Mac. Quite simply, they don't offer the kind of operability I want, and have nowhere near the software selection

I hear this a lot, but no one's ever really able to explain it other than with game titles. I really don't care, so don't try to explain. I REALLY don't care. Like I said, what makes me mad is you're working so hard to convince everyone else that you're right, and you're simply NOT.

In machine firewalls provide a modicum of security at the most, and a false sense of security at the least.

You want to be secure? Run a firewall at the head of your network. Time-tested proven solution.

[N7AAO]

Quote[/b] (KI4DYA @ Aug. 19 2004,11:29)]I'm not arguing about running Windows. #I'm posting from a Windows machine.

A windows machine sitting BEHIND a firewall.
A+ certs are of absolutely no use in this conversation, so quit trying to impress everyone.

The fact remains, that a software firewall running on a LOCAL machine is near-useless.

If you really want to be secure, whether you're running OSX, *nix, OS/2, BEOS, whatthefreakingever, you put a firewall at the HEAD of your network.

Yup, Windows HAS shown a much better track record lately, who was disputing that? #What I said was, the architecture of the Windows kernel/system relationship wasn't optimal for a secure-minded system.

You're missing the point due to your Windows zealotry. #I'm not bashing Windows. #I'm bashing running a service on your LOCAL machine.

Those 'independant scanners' you talk about do not try to compromise your machine, they simply attempt to scan for ports. #Period. #No cracker's going to simply scan for ports.

Quote[/b] ]Before I bought my latest Windows machine, I thoroughly investigated Linux and Mac. Quite simply, they don't offer the kind of operability I want, and have nowhere near the software selection

I hear this a lot, but no one's ever really able to explain it other than with game titles. #I really don't care, so don't try to explain. #I REALLY don't care. #Like I said, what makes me mad is you're working so hard to convince everyone else that you're right, and you're simply NOT. #

In machine firewalls provide a modicum of security at the most, and a false sense of security at the least.

You want to be secure? #Run a firewall at the head of your network. #Time-tested proven solution.
Hey, I am by no means a Windows zealot... I have said before, and I say again, there are lots of problems with Windows, and I am not exactly impressed with their speed in fixing them.

And, I have made no statements telling Linux or Mac users that they have to switch either, so I don't see where you think I am trying to convince anyone of anything.

[KI4DYA]

Then what's the big issue with informing people that a firewall installed on a Windows box isn't as secure as they would be led to believe?

If you'll take note, the switch to Linux that I advocated was for a separate piece of hardware, a dedicated firewall.

Yup, a Windows based firewall will indeed keep out the 'first line' of attackers, 'script kiddies' if you will, however, for hard-core intrusion attempts, they're next to useless BECAUSE of the way Windows apps run on top of the kernel.

Paying 100 or so for a low-end Pentium and installing a free Linux distro makes a LOT more sense than paying roughly the same amount for a software firewall to run on your Windows box.

I know you said you don't run IE, but look at how many people DO, and do you know how easy it is to code an ActiveX script to disable and/or amend the FW rules to allow for a malicious script to run? Since IE and/or the software FW are integrated into the kernel there's no defense. Running a separate *nix based FW removes that option. Look at it like having a steel door with a deadbolt on your bedroom door. Sure, it'll keep an intruder out of your bedroom, but they're still in the house aren't they?

**Posted from a Windows box.

[gw4rcm]

Now I'm totally confused
I've been burning twenty four candles in my Window since I got DSL, are you now telling me that I might #get hackers coming through my other windows? should these candles be placed in the window nearest to the computer or should all windows be protected?
I have been thinking of upgrading #to flame throwers or bombfires at the front and back of the house to cover all windows, only that there is a skylight in the roof, and if I put a wall of fire there I'm worried my house might burn down.
A tossing and turning in bed tonight for me .

73
A very troubled Dennis

[N2PVP]

You need to build an asbestos wall between the fire wall and the widow inside and out. #This will keep the flames contained. You may have to order the asbestos from out of the country as you know the EPA will not let you buy any here in the US. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

But than again you are not in the US so you will have to let me know if you have access to asbestos. You could be our unground contact for the US and we can all put fire walls in homes. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[gw4rcm]

No sorry that will be more expense
The xyl has been on night duty with the fire extinguisher all these years and with her day job as well we are at the end of our tether
Got to hear on this interneting thing that there is another way of communicating with you foreign chappies amaturing radioooo,
might give that a go.
Xyl is quite pleased about that as she can have a good night sleep, fire dept can stand down. Only thing i'll miss is the money she collects each night from the men who felt sorry for her.

73
Dennis

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (gw4rcm @ Aug. 19 2004,20:09)]Only thing i'll miss is the money she collects each night from the men who felt sorry for her.
Interesting story .... I wonder if the British interpretation is different than the US variety on that comment?

[gw4rcm]

Quote[/b] (w5alt @ Aug. 19 2004,17:20)]Quote[/b] (gw4rcm @ Aug. 19 2004,20:09)]Only thing i'll miss is the money she collects each night from the men who felt sorry for her.
Interesting story .... I wonder if the British interpretation is different than the US variety on that comment?
Gulp
You don't mean she has been distracted from protecting the firewall do you ALT I had my suspicions when I was checking on her one night, and every guy who walked past she asked them for a light, now to me that is total dedication to my firewall. Ok the guys hung around for a while but It was only to make sure that the candles were lit
73
Dennis

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (gw4rcm @ Aug. 19 2004,20:38)]Gulp
You don't mean she has been distracted from protecting the firewall do you ALT I had my suspicions when I was checking on her one night, and every #guy who walked past she asked them for a light, now to me that is total dedication to my firewall. Ok the guys hung around for a while but It was only to make sure that the candles were lit
OK, I'm glad all is well there. We don't want our UK brethern to get any 'viruses'! Cheers! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73,
Walt, W5ALT

[kj3n]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ Aug. 19 2004,14:15)]Find out which OS you should really be using and quit fighting about it.

Your best OS (http://bbspot.com/News/2003/01/os_quiz.php)

I still like amiga OS 3
I think I still have a kickstart 3 machine or two here.
Red Hat? No way!

I surf the net with OS/2 and my firewall is running on Mandrake. ;-)

[k4uug]

I had no problems at all! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w8ob]

Whats all the hype here?. I installed SP2 on 6 different machines here as well as the I-net server and not a problem! Everything works even the server once you specify what you want it to do.

[k4uug]

Quote[/b] (w8ob @ Aug. 21 2004,13:18)]Whats all the hype here?. I installed SP2 on 6 different machines here as well as the I-net server and not a problem! Everything works even the server once you specify what you want it to do.
operator head space and timing http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n9lya]

Quote[/b] (w6ez @ Aug. 18 2004,09:34)]So how many of you are going to rush to install Windows Service pack 2?

I just got a big email from my ISP with detailed instructions on how to install their "patch" to make my browser software run with the new SP2 "patch."

Then, I found that my firewall software has to have it's own SP2 "patch."

So I started looking at the different websites for the software I have on my computer and found 12 other "patches" for the SP2 "patch." I was just getting started on my list of programs so I just quit looking.

I know microsoft calls this SP2 "patch" an UPgrade. They called SP1 an upgrade as well, but it downgraded a lot of computers. I have a few friends who bought new computers just as SP1 was released and their new "fast" computers were upgraded to real dogs when they installed SP1.

I am now looking at a new "upgrade" to the SP2 "patch" and then a lot of "patches" to make the current software run with the new "patch."

..whoopie..
I installed WINXP SP2 before it was available to the Auto Update...
I only had two issues..

One my CD Writter would not write CDs.. Fix: I removed it from the hardware configuration and rebooted it.. After it found the "NEW" hardware and installed it she worked fine...

#2 My printer would loose data during a print of more than 1 page quite often... I replaced the parallel port cable with a USB to Parallel port converter... And it works fine now...


Yes their are issues...

And yes I did have to down load a fix for a minor item.. It was a software update for one of my programs... But I did not notice it not working before the vendor advised me I needed the update???

73 Jerry http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc2jga]

I'm OS/2 WARP!

[W8EFA]

Here is the deal with SP2. It is mainly a security patch not a performance enhancement patch.

If you have a good security setup already I would not install it. For Example make sure you have NAT (Network Address Translation). In my setup I have a cisco 675 DSL router and then I have another Linksysy Router "behind" the cisco. My Local network IP address is not physically available to the outside world and I have third party Firewall software installed.

If you do any kind of VPN (Virtual Private Networking) you will have major problems with SP2

[AB6ND]

All this technical talk about computers is really impressing me, trouble is I haven't the faintest hope of understanding it. Guess that's the trouble with being an OT, I'm still impressed by the ball point pen.
AB6ND

[kc2jga]

I have installed SP2 on both of my machines. Have yet to have any issues yet. *knock on wood* Both my machines use Norton Firewall, Anti-virus and I am sitting behind a router/firewall, which, you gotta love. Pop-ups have diminished almost completely.