911 Commission

[k0ews]

Has anyone else seen the 9/11 commission report? Pretty interesting reading so far. If you don't want to buy it and you want to read it, here is a link:
http://www.c-span.org/pdf/911finalreport.pdf
or any of the news websites might have it.
You can then just save it to your hard drive. Interesting stuff so far.

[W8EFA]

It faults both the Clinton and Bush administrations. Let's remember Clinton is not running but we can do something about Bush.

[K6UEY]

YUP!! Klinton has already been elected to the second term, NOW is the time to RE- ELECT G.W.BUSH, so he can finish the good job he is doing!!

[W8EFA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ July 22 2004,20:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">YUP!! Klinton has already been elected to the second term, NOW is the time to RE- ELECT G.W.BUSH, so he can finish the good job he is doing!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry but he is going to be another one term loser like Daddy. You have to be doing a darn poor job to not get easily re-elected as people don't like change.

Iraq aside can you name me one good thing he has done?

[KB1GYQ]

Sure, he demonstrated just how dumb the voting american public is - they cannot even handle punch-cards correctly, or make sense of a &quot;butterfly&quot; ballot.

[W8EFA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 22 2004,20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure, he demonstrated just how dumb the voting american public is - they cannot even handle punch-cards correctly, or make sense of a &quot;butterfly&quot; ballot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually I saw a copy of the Ballots in Dade County.

The Name was not lined up with the punch. I bet when you are 70 or so it might be confusing to you also.

I am in my 40's and things are already getting confusing and all of a sudden I can't see worth a darn. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KF0RT]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8EFA @ July 22 2004,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am in my 40's and things are already getting confusing and all of a sudden I can't see worth a darn. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Damn... thought it was just me.

Being an independant cuss... I'm wondering if Kerry is capable of cleaning up Bush's mess.

[K6UEY]

W8EFA,
If at 40 years old you still can't see the good things that Bush has done to clean up the mess this country was in then you should consult you Family Physician. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[n5tjd]

They made sure NOT to blame any one person or organization for 9/11. There have been issues in the intelligence community for years, and the problems have been spread out over several administrations.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Once something happens it is easy to go back and find several clues and hints that could have stopped it. The reason is, you know exactly what was being planned, who was planning it, and where it will take place. The same reason why it is easier to go through a simple maze backwards, from the &quot;beginning&quot;, you are on the right track, if you make a wrong turn, you can always go back to what you know for a fact is the right path. In real life we do not have that luxury.

There were several issues where, if things functioned differently, 9/11 could have been prevented, totally, or partially, but they didn't. I believe we were on the right track to fixing the problems before the commission released their findings, and hopefully, we can use some of their ideas to make the United States safer. We can't be 100% safe, but we should strive for it.

People are becoming more lax as time goes by, we need to keep people and security check points focused, else after a few years, once again our doors will be open wide to terror.

You can resort to name-calling and partisan politics, each side trying to place all the blame on the other side. The fact is, yesterday has already come and gone. We cannot change what happened, and fighting with each other will only waste time and embolden the terrorists. We all need to be unified in our fight on terrorism or we will never get anything done that needs doing.

[ae4tr]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Seems to me that this book is just another way to get more money from the american people. It should be free, after all we are paying the salaries for the commission, to investigate the thing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8EFA @ July 22 2004,20:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry but he is going to be another one term loser like Daddy. #You have to be doing a darn poor job to not get easily re-elected as people don't like change. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did we forget about Ross Perot in that election? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I always find it interesting how conveniently that is forgotten.

[k0ews]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Seems to me that this book is just another way to get more money from the american people. It should be free, after all we are paying the salaries for the commission, to investigate the thing. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The book is free in PDF form, which is why I put the link in the original post. I believe the cost is 10 dollars at stores, and I would guess that if they are making any money off it, it's not much; publishing has become expensive; most paperbacks go for about that now. I like having mine on the computer; it takes up less space, and it was free. However, I can't take my computer to my easy chair for an evening of reading....all the more excuse to buy a notebook http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[k0ews]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry but he is going to be another one term loser like Daddy. You have to be doing a darn poor job to not get easily re-elected as people don't like change.

Did we forget about Ross Perot in that election? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I always find it interesting how conveniently that is forgotten. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You make an interesting point about that election in 92. A lot of people forget that Clinton won the Presidency with what, 42 percent of the vote? A lot of the swing voters went with Perot that year, as did moderate Republicans, and &quot;Reagan Democrats&quot;. I considered it at the time, but he really did some looney stuff that summer; dropping out, coming back in the race, and he struck me as a little strange.

I find that this election has nothing that I can compare it to since I've followed politics in the last 30 years. I think the closest comparison is probabaly Carter/Ford in 1976 as to the last time that the nation was this polarized, and the popular and electoral votes were this split. You could compare it to 2000, but the candidates at the time, were pretty similar in a lot of respects, and the campaign and the public were not this bitter, or divided, like they were in 76. Of course, that was pre 9/11. Some compare this to 1988, but in 1988 it never was that close; the nation had wanted a change from Reagan, but had misgivings about Bush. I remembered his convention speech. He gave the best speech of his life that night, and then the Republican machine, led by Lee Atwater did a great job of campaining and it was a blowout. (Turns out the country had even bigger misgivings about Dukakis) You know, had Lee Atwater had lived, it would have been really interesting to him and Carville square off; could have been one for the ages.

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k0ews @ July 23 2004,07:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know, had Lee Atwater had lived, it would have been really interesting to him and Carville square off; could have been one for the ages.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Atwater would have had Carville for lunch... after reducing Carville to frothing at the mouth, I bet.

How about Buckley vs. Carville? That might be interesting too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Beam me up, Scotty!

[kd7ppk]

The 9/11 commission report has a couple of interesting recommendations which could impact emergency response persons. They're around page 396-397 of the report. A brief summary:

Recommendation 1: &quot;Emergency response agencies nationwide should adopt the Incident Command System (ICS). When multiple agencies or multiple jurisdictions are involved, they should adopt a unified command.&quot;

Recommendation 2: &quot;Congress should support pending legislation which provides for the expedited and increased assignment of radio sprectrum for public safety purposes.&quot; &quot;...high risk urban areas...should establish signal corps units&quot;

-Matt
KD7PPK

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7ppk @ July 23 2004,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The 9/11 commission report has a couple of interesting recommendations which could impact emergency response persons. #They're around page 396-397 of the report. #A brief summary:

Recommendation 1: #&quot;Emergency response agencies nationwide should adopt the Incident Command System (ICS). #When multiple agencies or multiple jurisdictions are involved, they should adopt a unified command.&quot;

Recommendation 2: #&quot;Congress should support pending legislation which provides for the expedited and increased assignment of radio sprectrum for public safety purposes.&quot; #&quot;...high risk urban areas...should establish signal corps units&quot;

-Matt
KD7PPK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll bet that the nit-wits in Congress drag their feet on both recommendations until the next attack. The recommendation just make too much sense, and that confuses Congresspeople (of both parties).

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7ppk @ July 23 2004,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Recommendation 1: #&quot;Emergency response agencies nationwide should adopt the Incident Command System (ICS).[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A majority of fire service agencies have gone to the ICS. At least on the left coast. It's the Law that doesn't always play nice.

What I find somewhat interesting is the jurisdictional responsibilty in California for a HAZ MAT incident. The local Sheriffs Dept has responsibity and has Incident Command. They generally send one duputy that stands around and does whatever Fire tells him/her to do.



As for Number #2.....I guess Congress for the most part doesn't know that a &quot;signal corp&quot; already exist's. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[k4kyv]

The most effective way to prevent terrorism is missing from 911 report... You don't see terrorists targeting other prosperous, Western-style democracies such as Switzerland, Canada or Sweden...And one reason is that those governments don't meddle in other nation's affairs or embark on foolish nation-building missions.



http://badnarik.org/blog....=1&amp;pb=1 (http://badnarik.org/blog/blog_a.php?p=587&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1)

[KB1GYQ]

[in referance to emergency services provided by amateur radio] -- Just remember... if we are not welcome in time of peace (i.e. restricted deeds and homeowners agreements), then why should we go in in times of crisis?

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 24 2004,09:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[in referance to emergency services provided by amateur radio] -- Just remember... if we are not welcome in time of peace (i.e. restricted deeds and homeowners agreements), then why should we go in in times of crisis?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because you will be needed?

But another thought would be, if Congress established a &quot;Signal Corp&quot; it would be a NEW service and highly regulated. Since when has Congress ever used something that already exist's when they can create a whole new agency with the appropriate rules and regulations.

[ae2ny]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 22 2004,20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure, he demonstrated just how dumb the voting american public is - they cannot even handle punch-cards correctly, or make sense of a &quot;butterfly&quot; ballot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now see here we go.....

I live in Florida and apparently, in my warped thinking being only 32 and clueless, this comment was aimed directly at Florida voters.

Two things that should be considered here...

1) It wasn't the voters' fault, it was the commissions who were in charge of counting those votes.

And

2) The large portion of the problem were the networks such as ABC, CBS, NBC (Now MSNBC), CNN, Fox News... All of them calling the vote too early... FAR too early than they should have.

Just my .02 for what it's worth.


Anthony-KI4VPR

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k4kyv @ July 24 2004,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The most effective way to prevent terrorism is missing from 911 report... You don't see terrorists targeting other prosperous, Western-style democracies such as Switzerland, Canada or Sweden...And one reason is that those governments don't meddle in other nation's affairs or embark on foolish nation-building missions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ya know, you're right... and it's been going on for a long time.

We had no right meddling in Germany's affairs back in the 1940s... we had no right standing in the way of the Japanese either! We should have accepted their destruction of our Navy as a clear message to us saying &quot;don't meddle in our affairs.&quot; We never should have sold goods to the English either, that's what started the whole mess in the first place.

Yes, the world would have been a much nicer place if we'd never meddled in affairs of other nations.

[/sarcasm]

[KB1GYQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6QQL @ July 25 2004,14:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 24 2004,09:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[in referance to emergency services provided by amateur radio] -- Just remember... if we are not welcome in time of peace (i.e. restricted deeds and homeowners agreements), then why should we go in in times of crisis?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because you will be needed?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Last I knew, the Red Cross did that... They do not go into &quot;gated communities&quot;. It is beyond hypocritical to ask for help doing what we were not permitted to do when they &quot;didn't need us&quot;.

[KB1GYQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KI4VPR @ July 25 2004,16:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 22 2004,20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure, he demonstrated just how dumb the voting american public is - they cannot even handle punch-cards correctly, or make sense of a &quot;butterfly&quot; ballot.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now see here we go.....

I live in Florida and apparently, in my warped thinking being only 32 and clueless, this comment was aimed directly at Florida voters.

Two things that should be considered here...

1) It wasn't the voters' fault, it was the commissions who were in charge of counting those votes.

And

2) The large portion of the problem were the networks such as ABC, CBS, NBC (Now MSNBC), CNN, Fox News... All of them calling the vote too early... FAR too early than they should have.

Just my .02 for what it's worth.


Anthony-KI4VPR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There were many many things that went wrong...

Last I knew, FL was putting in known-to-be-flawed computerized voting machines... at least with the stuipid paper things, they could actually be manually counted.

Oh, and I agree about the media.... the current methods of election coverage cause major problems... 'exit polls' should not be permitted.... all they do is convince people that their vote itsn't needed.

My disdain isn't directed at FL residents ... all of America (statistically speaking) is becoming brain dead. [ remember: Twain said there are three types of lies: lies, d*mned lies, and statistics http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ] Kill your TV before it's too late!

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 25 2004,16:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6QQL @ July 25 2004,14:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB1GYQ @ July 24 2004,09:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[in referance to emergency services provided by amateur radio] -- Just remember... if we are not welcome in time of peace (i.e. restricted deeds and homeowners agreements), then why should we go in in times of crisis?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because you will be needed?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Last I knew, the Red Cross did that... # They do not go into &quot;gated communities&quot;. #It is beyond hypocritical to ask for help doing what we were not permitted to do when they &quot;didn't need us&quot;.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, regardless, Congress will surely re-invent the wheel unless somebody tells them that a 'signal corp' already exists.

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7AAO @ July 25 2004,14:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k4kyv @ July 24 2004,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The most effective way to prevent terrorism is missing from 911 report... You don't see terrorists targeting other prosperous, Western-style democracies such as Switzerland, Canada or Sweden...And one reason is that those governments don't meddle in other nation's affairs or embark on foolish nation-building missions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ya know, you're right... and it's been going on for a long time.

We had no right meddling in Germany's affairs back in the 1940s... we had no right standing in the way of the Japanese either! We should have accepted their destruction of our Navy as a clear message to us saying &quot;don't meddle in our affairs.&quot; We never should have sold goods to the English either, that's what started the whole mess in the first place.

Yes, the world would have been a much nicer place if we'd never meddled in affairs of other nations.

[/sarcasm][/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You took the other gentleman way way out of context, and your sarcasm is misplaced.

The United States has a really bad history of being the good-time Charlies of foreign policy. We used Afghanistan as a our own covert war zone to stick a fork in the eyes of the Kremlin, and when the Soviets pulled out, we just dusted our hands of the mess we created. The place is still full of land mines that we gave the Mujahedein and no one really knows where they are buried.

Worse, we engage in foreign policy for purely selfish motives. Helping the Shah of Iran, propping up the Saudi Royal Family, the whole Unitied Fruit Companies debacle in the 50's.

Unfortunately, what the original poster didn't mention is the bad diplomacy and public relations is only part of reason why the terrorists hate us. The other reason is they are fundamentalists and take the Quran at its literal word. And that literal word is that anyone who is not Muslim is an infidel and should be killed. It specifically spells that fate out for Christians and Jews.

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ July 25 2004,19:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unfortunately, what the original poster didn't mention is the bad diplomacy and public relations is only part of reason why the terrorists hate us. The other reason is they are fundamentalists and take the Quran at its literal word. And that literal word is that anyone who is not Muslim is an infidel and should be killed. It specifically spells that fate out for Christians and Jews.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Precisely. I took his point, and took it to its ultimate extreme, to point out that it is not just the US's &quot;meddling&quot; that causes them to hate us.

In point of fact, if we were to totally pull out of the Middle East tomorrow, they would still hate us. Not just on religious grounds, but because we are a successful non-Islam nation when most Islamic nations (with the notable exception of Turkey) are economically unsuccessful, and because we offer a shining beacon of hope and democracy that even invites Muslims in, in contrast to Islam's mostly totalitarian governments (again, Turkey is a possible exception). Our success makes them look bad, and they hate us for it out of simple envy. Pulling out of the Middle East will not change a bit of that.

[k0ews]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Worse, we engage in foreign policy for purely selfish motives. Helping the Shah of Iran, propping up the Saudi Royal Family, the whole Unitied Fruit Companies debacle in the 50's.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> Yes, we do sometimes get into bed with the lesser of two evils. There is an old saying: careful what you wish for, you might just get it. Suppose we give the peoples of each country there self-determination. Namely, the Saudis. (we already saw what happened in Iran, and frankly, Iraq scares me for this too) The self determine to create an Islamic fundamentalist state. Iran did it in 1979, and your own post also bears that out.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The other reason is they are fundamentalists and take the Quran at its literal word. And that literal word is that anyone who is not Muslim is an infidel and should be killed. It specifically spells that fate out for Christians and Jews.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So, no matter our support if Israel or not, they will probably hate us. This is going to sound cruel, but some of this in-fighting, and terrorism is going to be necessary before there is any kind of stability in the region. Historically, we do know that anytime power is toppled it creates a vacumn. You get one or more ethinic/regligious factions up for the power grab, and you will have civil war, ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc. If you don't believe me, take a look at what happened to Yugoslavia in the years following the death of Tito, and the fall of the Iron curtain. I see the same potential thing happening in Iraq. You have the shiites, the sunnis, the kurds, and all will want some form of power. Iran is sitting and licking their chops just waiting for us to get out of there, and you will probably see them make a play for part of Iraq, if not all of it. Unfortunately, there will be an outside presence required for years now. The best play should have been for the UN to police it. What I think the best idea would be is to create an all Arab coalition force, possibly an offshoot of the UN to come in and provide security, and help in the nation building process.