Keyboards

[K8ERV]

Tim, there is always the telephone !!!----

TOM K8ERV

[AG3Y]

I would answer the question with another question. Why ?

I am so involved in digital modes that I don't even know where my microphone is ( really. . . honest ! ), but when it comes to CW, I get out my trusty Chrome Vibroplex and have at it with that!

CW is a tradition and an art, and if I start sending CW with a keyboard, I forget that I am actually using CW ! Instead of using the usual shorthand " so hw cpy om ? " I start sending " so how are you copying now old man ? " which obviously takes much longer to send and receive without saying anything more! It also tends to make me sound like a "lid", which is the last thing I want to do !

Besides that aspect, sending CW with a keyboard would suggest that you are going to use a computer or smart terminal unit such as a PK-232 to copy the incoming CW. Let me tell you, a computer cannot begin to copy CW as well as a trained ear for many reasons, among which are the varying length of the elements that make up the characters, the "accents" otherwise known as the "banana-boat swing" that many operators apply to their fists, and the various static crashes and other signals, both natural and man-made that cause problems for a computer or smart box!

That's one person's answer for you !

73 from Jim AG3Y

[W7DJM]

ARTHRITIS

[k0ews]

I would agree with AG3Y. While I have a keyboard keyer and also a computer to rig CW interface, about the only time I ever use them are in contests. Actually, I've had the keyboard keyer away for a couple months now, and do all the keyboard stuff from the computer, via a logging program. However, that being said, if I'm just making contacts or ragchewing, checking into nets, etc., then it's the bug for me. Part of the fun of CW is getting to make those characters yourself, developing a good fist, and just the joy of sending. I'm a musician, and sending CW by hand is the closest thing in ham radio that there is to actually making music. Some of the operators I hear are just real craftsmen with their fists.
I also have a set of paddles, and I do use them,mainly with my K-1, but for general use, my bug does it for me.
I also agree that using a keyboard can make a person "wordy" like they tend to get in rtty and psk 31. In cw, brevity is a good thing.
My copying speed is getting up to the low 30s for the comfort now, and if it goes much higher, I may start being able to copy faster than I can send well. If that happens, the keyboard will probably come back out.
Also, I've yet to see a good CW program that can get it all. CW get does a respectable job if I have my 250 Hz filter engaged, but even it is not perfect. Most of the time, the only time CW get ever gets used is when I'm practicing. It's brutally honest, and a good way to work on having an intelligable fist. Good question, and 73!

[k4uug]

I like to use the MFJ Morse Reader with Built-In Keyer

It makes working high speed CW a breeze -- even if you're rusty. A type-ahead buffer, message memories and adjustable speed get you ready to compete with the world's best hi-speed CW operatiors -- and they won't even know you just passed the code test!

The MFJ-464 gives you everything you need to have the Ultimate CW Station:

Sends and Reads 5-99 WPM
Automatic Speed Tracking
Large 2-line LCD shows send/receive messages
Single or Iambic paddle or computer keyboard operation
Front panel speed, volume controls
4 message memories
Type ahead buffer
Read again buffer
Adjustable Weight and Sidetone
Speaker, RFI Proof
Reader Has Auto Speed Track
MFJ AutoTrak automatically locks on, tracks, and displays CW to 99 WPM. Simply plug in your MFJ-464 to your receiver speaker until the lock LED flashes in time with the CW.

High Performance Modem
Consistently get solid copy from MFJ's high performance PLL (phase lock loop) modem. Digs out weak signals. Even tracks slightly drifting signals. Of course, nothing can clean up and copy a sloppy fist, especially weak signals with lots of QRM/QRN.

Superb built-in Keyer Features
The MFJ-464 combines the latest millennium microprocessor technology with non-volatile EEPROM memory for a full featured, low cost, high reliability design. You can send CW or load messages using a paddle, keyboard, or through your computer serial port.

Easy-to-use menus and LCD display let you set all keyer functions merely by pushing buttons. Keyer functions can also be changed from your keyboard or computer. The MFJ-464 has 4 message memories of 256 characters each. You can repeat messages continuously, insert timed pauses within messages, insert an auto-incrementing serial number, have messages call other messages or insert embedded commands to change speed, weight, etc. -- automatically.

Sinewave Sidetone . . More!
MFJ-464 supports direct keying output, Has PTT output, built-in speaker, sinewave sidetone and more! Iambic keyer with dot and dash memories: automatic, semi, or hand-key mode. Input queue lets you store multiple messagse. Auto-incrementing contest serial numbering from 001 to 9999.

Adjustable Speed 5-99 WPM
Digital linear soeed control from 5-99 WPM. Farnsworth Mode with speed adjustable from 10-99 WPM. Ultra speed sets messages up to 990 wpm. Adjustable weight 25% to 75%. Adjustable sidetone from 300 to 1000 Hz. Keying output delay up to 20 milliseconds. Pust-To-Talk (PTT) hang time to 5 seconds. Timed tune function for XMTR adjusting. Timed pauses in messages/message loop. Internal speaker with adjustable volume. Support for Qwerty & Dvorak keyboards.

Type-Ahead Buffer
190 characters type-ahead keyboard buffer with low-buffer warning. Keyboard input lets you plug in any AT keyboard. All commands, functions & memories can be done through the keyboard! Compact and handsome all-black metal cabinet measures just 6.25 x 2.5 x 6.25 inches. Uses 12 VDC or 110 VAC with MFJ-1312D, $14.95, optional AC Adapter.

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/pictures/MFJ-464.jpg

I love this little gizmo! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


beats http://pages.prodigy.net/kg0zz/clipart/images/ham/animated/cw_cq_em.gif

[K7JBQ]

OBN,

It's probably just fine as long as the CW on the other end is "store bought" as well.

It's the vagaries (and the individual touches) of CW sent by real keys that have them scratching their little surface-mount heads and scrolling gibberish across the screen.

73,
Bill

[N8CPA]

I don't use a keyboard for CW, though I have a multimode TNC capable of Morse. For CW, I use an AEA MorseMachine with either one of my paddles. All decoding is done between my ears, though might be transcribed to a text file, or scratched out on a notepad. Not to use a hiphop cliche, but I gotta keep it as real as I can make it.

[K3STX]

There is a perfectly good reason to send CW with a keyboard: when your fingers can't move fast enough to send it with paddles. I was listening to a couple of guys a few nights ago going QRQ, I would say about 70 wpm. One of the guys said "I'll try on my bug", and it was, well let's be polite, different. And I think his max bug speed was 20 wpm.

I can only send by hand up to about 50 wpm max, then I start having extra dits. It is not fair to the people I am talking to to send so poorly and it is embarrassing. A keyboard makes it possible to send code fast and have a real conversation. I am learning how to use my keyboard, but it is strange to type "tu", "cul', etc... It is a different skill, and of course you become a better typist.

paul

[ae4fa]

Here's what I use:
http://www.mtechnologies.com/schurr/sm001.jpg
Sweet!

But Paul is correct. #Virtually all of the VERY fast ops (40+) use keyboards.

I'd never seen one in use 'til this FD, when one of our top CW guys showed up with one. #Not sure I could get used to it.

[N8CPA]

Ragchew, I can do about 20--and that is faster than I can accurately type. To break 20, I'd need a backspace on the key-that's what works on my keyboard, at least.

And that Schure key is a real beauty!

[AG3Y]

My hat goes off to anybody who can copy greater than 40 wpm in their head! #However, when you start sending CW at that rate, you really might as well switch over to some other digital mode that has set bit lengths, tone present in both a "1" and "0" bit, and many other "advances" that make such modes as PSK31, MT63, MFSK16, etc. work more accurately than machine-sent CW. # I would be one of the first to defend the use of CW if it is being sent by hand, and received and decoded by the human brain, but I think that it is a poor second when the attempt is made to emulate a machine-sent protocol as those that I have mentioned above!

That was proven many years ago when the question of how to send baudot/Murray code was being investigated. #A form of FM ( 2125 Hz "mark" - 2295 Hz "space" among others ) was decided upon because it simply was more accurate !

73 from Jim

[WA2ZDY]

If you're going to use a keyboard and morse reader to get on cw, why bother? Are you trying to show others that you're a cw op without being one?

I'd bet that some of the same guys here blabbing about using readers are the same who are anti-code test.

What gives fellas? A little hypocritical perhaps?

Fellas, there's no shame in not knowing the code, or not being good at it. I happen to consider myself rather good at it. (And I operate CW while driving.) But I know diddly about surface mount technology. Does that make me a lesser ham?

Come on guys, if you really want to use a keyboard, get on a mode that is better suited to it. RTTY, AMTOR, PSK31, whatever. If you can type 60wpm, why sit around waiting for the code?

I don't get this one . . . give my my bug.

[N0ZB]

I've got a one button keyboard.....with a Navy knob.

It's my favorite.

Dave N0ZB

[WB2WIK]

Re: Copying 40 wpm in one's head...other than typing it, there's really no other way to copy 40 wpm. I sure can't write that fast, and I can't think of anyone who can.

Then, I never write anything down when I work CW, and I never have. I keep a log, and jot down the other station's callsign, the time, date and band of the contact, and maybe his name and location if he's somebody new, and that's it. Why write anything else down? We kill enough trees as it is.

Re: Using a keyboard to send CW...well, for contesting, my logging program is also a station automation utility, so when I key the other station's callsign in and hit the space bar, all kinds of neat things happen, like I find out who and where he is, what the beam heading should be, if we've already worked on other bands, if he's a new one or a dupe and all sorts of stuff. If I want to work him at that point, all I have to do is hit ENTER and the program sends my complete exchange and partially logs his. The only other thing I ever have to type in is the other station's variables data, such as a serial number or something. The program fills in "599" for all signal reports unless specifically overwritten.

And all contest automation/logging/duping programs do that stuff. So, in contests, it's common for me to not even have a key connected to the rig -- the keyboard, computer and soundcard interface are quite sufficient to run the entire contest with no paper, no pencil and surely no key.

But for casual operating, I did buy the MFJ keyboard keyer which has about a 99 character buffer and a lot of nice features (and it's inexpensive and works with any standard keyboard), but found once the novelty wore off (which took about two days), I prefer the paddle. Not that the keyboard doesn't do a perfect job, it actually does. The keyboard's buffer is slick because you can type all your responses while listening to the other station, and when he's done, just hit ENTER and send an entire transmission while you get up and grab a beer or something. And I thought that would be nice.

But, I missed the paddles. Using more modern toys for casual operating is a bit like owning an airplane but having somebody else fly it -- just not fun. It's like owning a motorcycle but always using your Ford. Not for me. Using the paddles is part of the mystique, and I missed it immediately.

WB2WIK/6

[W5HTW]

As I've said elsewhere, using a keyboard to send CW is like hopping a commercial jet from NY to LA and when you arrive claiming what a great pilot you were.

But let me go a step further. I'm not against machine sent code. What is a bother is people who claim to be a "CW op" when they are using a keyboard. They aren't. They are a keyboard op.

CW used to be a personal skill, an achievement. With the keyboard that is not true at all. Like going to a foreign country and dragging along an interpreter so you can claim how well you know the language.

But this has gone the way of other things as well. For example, an electronics tech is a person who can unplug a computer board and plug another one in. A technically qualified ham is one who can plug in the sound card.

Will I ever use a keyboard? Maybe. I see myself slowing down a lot as I age. The old J38 is tempting but I can't really handle it anymore. Used to make it sound like machine code at 20 wpm, but those days are long gone. The paddles are still my gateway to CW, and I hope they stay there. But I have to admit, the keyer is doing a lot of the work for me when I use the paddles, so I guess that is a step toward finding a device to do it all. It may be, though, that by the time I have aged enough I can't use the paddles, I won't be able to tune the radio anyway, so may never make the next jump to automated code. If I ever do, though, I hope I don't claim to be a CW operator. That will have fallen by the way. Ah, but if that's the only way I can do it, and I still *want* to do it, then that's the way it will go I guess!

73
Ed

[ae4fa]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would be one of the first to defend the use of CW if it is being sent by hand, and received and decoded by the human brain[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Send by hand (aka J-38) at 40? #Highly doubtful, Jim. #However, copy in head at that rate is something a lot of guys can do. #I do not include myself in that group!

The fellow I referred to in my earlier post (FD ops) has demonstrated an ability to copy - in his head, and then type the transcript - at 70wpm. #'Course he's a bit older now - might only be good for 50 or so.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">CW used to be a personal skill, an achievement. With the keyboard that is not true at all. Like going to a foreign country and dragging along an interpreter so you can claim how well you know the language.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Not an apt description at all, Ed. Now copying with the aid of a code reader certainly would be.

While there is certainly a skill in using manual or semi-manual means to transmit, the real magic is in copying!

[W5MEJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ July 21 2004,16<!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I ever do, though, I hope I don't claim to be a CW operator. #That will have fallen by the way.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In his book, &quot;The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy&quot;, by N0HFF, there is some interesting reading about some operaters who pioneered the use of a keyboard for sending CW in the early '60s. #They felt they had reached the upper limits of speed they could send with a paddle, but had not reached the upper level they could copy. #They were talking speeds upwards of 80 wpm. #

Just my humble opinion, but anyone who can read CW at that speed can claim to be a CW operator, regardless of the method of sending!

73!
Chuck

[k4uug]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K7JBQ @ July 21 2004,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OBN,

It's probably just fine as long as the CW on the other end is &quot;store bought&quot; as well.

It's the vagaries (and the individual touches) of CW sent by real keys that have them scratching their little surface-mount heads and scrolling gibberish across the screen.

73,
Bill[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Of course, nothing can clean up and copy a sloppy fist, especially weak signals with lots of QRM/QRN.

Other than that it works just fine I have used for a long time and have made many contacts perfect copy no problems no complaints ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I like this little gem it is a diamond in the ruff!

[K0RGR]

I don't use a keyboard today to send code, for the same reason someone else gave earlier - I am so used to spelling things out on the keyboard that I do it on CW too, and that's a poor idea, even at high speeds.

However, many years ago, my dad, who was a Navy radio chief in WWII and could copy as fast as he could type and then some, built a keyboard. It was one of his first solid state projects, and it worked great. The keys for all the prosigns (BT AR KN, etc.) were well marked. There was no type-ahead buffer so if the keyboard was set to send slower than you typed, you had to wait for it. But overall, the keyboard let me send better code with less effort, so I enjoyed it.

I advocate using keyboards to send CW on the air precisely because there are computer programs now that can copy them pretty well under good conditions. My attention span is not what it used to be, and I am so used to operating digital modes that I am used to doing other things while the computer copies for me. Then, I can quickly catch up on the conversation. I like to use the computer for CW in this way, too.

Also, machine-sent code is much easier to copy than someone sending with a hammer and a knife switch. It's much more enjoyable when I don't have to struggle to tell if the other guy is sending 'C' or 'NN', and some of the 'wizards' on the air these days really send that way.

Also, I would have no problem working a 5 WPM General at 20 WPM using this system. I would not need the computer to copy on my end, and if I used a good keyboard to send it, he would be able to copy me on his. More CW activity is more CW activity is more nice QSOs.

Yes, this may not be &quot;the man's way&quot; but some of the best CW ops around aren't men, either. The last time I sent 20 WPM with a straight key was at the FCC office.

[ka4pne]

I used a J-37 while in the service...whether it was in a communications center, on board the Destroyer or out in the field (knee key) [Vietnam]. #I suppose I'm just old fashioned and will always be. #73 #KA5PNE # # # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif