Another American Hostage Killed.

[kg4kww]

As you all know by now another American was killed by these A-RAB Animals in Saudi Arabia. I want to know why the American Military with all it's Hi-Tech Spy Satellites, listening devices, special forces and CIA Spies can't track down these animals?

This is the latest news on the story as published on the BBC News Web Site.

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>Militants behead US hostage</span></span>


Mr Johnson's wife pleaded for his release on Arabic TV
Al-Qaeda militants have beheaded an American engineer they were holding hostage in Saudi Arabia.
Graphic photographs apparently showing the corpse of Paul Marshall Johnson, who was abducted in Riyadh last week, have appeared on an Islamist website.

A Saudi official said the body of Mr Johnson, 49, had been found in a remote area north of the capital, Riyadh.

President George W Bush condemned the beheading, saying it &quot;shows the evil nature of the enemy we face&quot;.

Meanwhile, reports from Saudi Arabia say the head of al-Qaeda in the country, Abdul Aziz al-Muqrin, has been killed by Saudi security forces.

Muqrin and two other militants died in a shootout in Riyadh's al-Malaz district following discoveries at the house where Mr Johnson's body was found.

The militant had claimed to be involved in the beheading of Mr Johnson, and in the killing of other westerners based in Saudi Arabia.

'Killed in cold blood'

Al-Qaeda had told the Saudi government to free jailed Islamist militants by Friday, or it would kill Mr Johnson.


&quot;They killed him in cold blood,&quot; Mr Bush told reporters in Seattle.

&quot;They're trying to intimidate America. They're trying to shake our will. They're trying to make us retreat from the world.&quot;

Al-Qaeda is trying to terrify all Westerners into leaving Saudi Arabia as part of efforts to destabilise the Saudi rulers by weakening the economy which depends on foreign labour.

The BBC's Heba Saleh, in Cairo says that as the graphic images show, the group is showing itself adept in using the internet and the media to drive home its chilling message.

'Revenge'

Photographs of the beheading were published on a website which has carried Islamist messages in the past.


Mr Johnson was dressed in an orange jumpsuit, a reference to Guantanamo Bay

A statement on the site signed by the &quot;Organisation of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula&quot; claims responsibility for the killing.

&quot;As we promised the mujahideen, we have beheaded the American hostage Paul Marshall after the deadline that the mujahideen gave to the tyrannical Saudi government passed,&quot; it says.

&quot;This is God's voice raising in anger... at the treatment of Muslims in Abu Ghraib... Guantanamo and others,&quot; the statement adds.

BBC NEWS LONDON -- LATEST NEWS COVERAGE OF HOSTAGE MURDER (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/40290000/rm/_40290123_saudi01_ingham_vi.ram)

To Mr. Johnson's family, I say that I'm deeply saddend by your love one's passing. And may GOD grant you peace and strength during this most difficult time.

[w5klb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4kww @ June 18 2004,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To Mr. Johnson's family, I say that I'm deeply saddend by your love one's passing. And may GOD grant you peace and strength during this most difficult time.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ditto.

Once again, we see what 'coddling'and 'trying to get along and understand' evil people gets us.

ANOTHER American murdered. Another 'F.U!' in the face of the Country.

But the media (and the left) STILL focus on the 'get even and win!' politics of the Abu Gahrib prision crap. Equal time for a REAL evil - the beheadings of Americans?

NO F'ing way! It's NOT in concert with OUR agenda - beat up Bush, beat up the Conservatives, and help the liberals win.

One day.. (soon hopefully) One day.. the American Government who lean/live/exist on the left side which coddles, condones,and want's to 'get along' with evil is GOING to finally wake up and realize that

The ONLY way to keep evil at bay is through PROACTIVE (and sometimes PREEMPTIVE) action.

Quick, sure, decisve, and SELF-INTERET PURSUING actions to identify the ones responsible (people, group, nation).. let it be known 'We're COMING!' and then GO DO IT!

World opinion be damned. UN be zorched. Leftists socialist Marxist 'babbling and crying and wringing of hands' ignored.

As Vince Lombardi said so well 'The best defense is a good offense!&quot;

Time to get VERY offensive.

If it means that some poor arab has to undergo profiling because they are PART of the known culutre/group that does such things. TOUGH! Don't like it here.. Then hop thenext plane HOME.

If it means ALL foreign nationals (NOT US Citizens) have to be inconvienenced while we check them out thoroughly and make them carry IDENTITY cards as visitors and report for regular check ins to the Police.. SO BE IT. THEY ARE 'GUESTS' not citizens.

GET USED TO IT&gt;
IF we have to close the borders to easy access by illegals AND start enforcing the rules against illegals who are here andit makes them 'mad' cuz it seems like discrimination.

FINE! you are NOT here legally. Get used to it.

If you are here legally then all we ask is BEHAVE YOURSELF and you'll be fine.

If not..

Time to stop being pansies, milequtoasts, and 'scared of the ACLU and the U.N. opinion'.

Get it done. Move on.

END.

HOW MANY MORE AMERICANS WILL BE TREATED THIS WAY BEFORE IT BECOMES TOO MUCH??

[KD4LEI]

Here is my feelings expressed very short and to the point on these extremeists via two .wav files.

Action #1 (http://www.moviewavs.com/Movies/Tombstone/hellwith.wav)

Action #2 (http://www.mellody.co.za/michaela/palpatine/multimedia/sidious19.wav)

http://westvirginia.rivals.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[KG6OPR]

Just make a ashtray out of the place and get our people home! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KG6OPR]

It took a B-29 to change the way people were thinking. I'll bet a B-1 or a B-2 will do the same thing. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[w6ez]

I saw on the news that the Saudi police (or whaterver) got into a fire fight with these guys and killed two of them right off. Two got away. Then later, they cornered the ring leader , who was the guy that killed the hostage, and they killed him too.
Isn't this a first?
I also saw one of the Saudi big wigs on TV saying that they have had enough of this stuff in SA and that they were going after all those connected, including the folks who give money to the terrorist groups. It appears that the terrs not only want to drive out all westerners but also to bring down the royal family in Saudi Arabia. I guess the royals now have a vested interest in the war on terror.

[KG4WRA]

It took them years to find Eric Rudolph in the North Carolina mountains... I'm betting that it'll take even longer to look for criminals in an entire country.

[kg4ivt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4WRA @ June 19 2004,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It took them years to find Eric Rudolph in the North Carolina mountains... I'm betting that it'll take even longer to look for criminals in an entire country.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I always thought Eric Rudolph actually knew a thing or two about what he was doing vs. some f-head cowards wearing crap on their heads afraid to show their faces.

This is probably one of the few threads on QRZ that I've completely agreed with (so far) in a long time.

I'm still asking myself though, why aren't we saying &quot;Where's Saudi Arabia?&quot; right now?

[KG6OPR]

I don't get it. Blast em the blast the UN. This dam diplomatic crap is not working. The only good diplomat is a loaded gun put to their head. Speaking of heads lets lop of a few of theirs. I know two wrongs don't make a right but if your fighting a bunch of mad men you might as well fight them with their own game. Lets start with those poor poor SOB's locked up in that Iraq prison! IMHO. Just venting. Iam as mad as hell and I am not going to take it no more! Peter Finch The movie Network. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KC8QMU]

You know, nobody wants to admit it, but we are in a religious war. Yet we pussyfoot around and worry about their relgious places and other places of significant Muslim history. They don't seem to have any respect for us, and like any typical middle-eastern country they hate us and love our money.

If they want a religious war there is no denying it.

To hell with the militants and their distorted version of Islam. Blow them and anything associated with them straight to hell. Then and only then will the decent people of Iraq not have to fear signing up for the new army and supporting their new government. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[w5zzq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4ivt @ June 19 2004,10:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4WRA @ June 19 2004,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It took them years to find Eric Rudolph in the North Carolina mountains... I'm betting that it'll take even longer to look for criminals in an entire country.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I always thought Eric Rudolph actually knew a thing or two about what he was doing vs. some f-head cowards wearing crap on their heads afraid to show their faces. #

This is probably one of the few threads on QRZ that I've completely agreed with (so far) in a long time.

I'm still asking myself though, why aren't we saying &quot;Where's Saudi Arabia?&quot; right now?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Saudi what - where??? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K9TOD]

I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.

And the language in here is something else too. Why I oughtta warsh your mouths out with soap.

[K6UEY]

If you think the United States War against Terrorists,and the attack of the World by the AQ and the sensless murder of American citizens by chopping off their heads is disturbing your day,why don't you complain to the familiy's of those who have been killed,after all it is your ass they have been trying to save,and I'm sure that makes them uncomfortable to.
As for you speaking for the majority,your left wing Socialists crap will never be speaking on my behalf,if others buy your self centered garbage that is their problem. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[kg4kww]

KD4LEI I agree with your sound byte #2 so, much so, that I have posted here in my response.

Wipe'm Out !!!!!! (http://www.mellody.co.za/michaela/palpatine/multimedia/sidious19.wav)

We need to level their cities like we did Germany in WWII. We showed no mercy then and we should show none now.

Bush is just afraid to go in and level their cities and get this scum because, he doesn't want to offend any one particular group of people and lose re-election votes. It's about time that we the people let Bush know that he has to go into these cities of filth and evil run by a bunch of scum bags with towels on their heads and clean them out.

Harry Truman, didn't care about public reaction when he gave the order to drop the bomb on Japan so, why should Bush. Harry saved countless lives with that act, Bush should take a lesson from Harry and bomb these scum bags off the face of the Earth.

Another thing why didn't the Saudi's track these killers down before they killed this guy? I wonder if palms were greased?

As for K9TOD, if you like these people so much, go live with them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[ad4mg]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 20 2004,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Respectfully, I offer the Title of this Forum:

&quot;Talk and Opinions&quot;.

The title does not indicate anything about amateur radio. #The moderators allow some leeway, and this particular topic begs discussion. #Might I suggest you &quot;change the channel&quot;.

CNN now reports that sympathetic Saudi Security forces provided the cowards with uniforms and vehicles. #We will receive no help from a corrupt government such as this.

Also, it will be difficult to target these cowards. #Our efforts to date have only succeeded in scattering these cowards to the four corners of the globe. #But I agree on one thing, when found, hit 'em hard ... damn hard. #They are a disease, and should be given all the consideration they deserve ... NONE. #Send their asses to Allah and let him sort them out.

Sorry for the strong words, but this is war.

TOD.. of course, the ONE thing you must admit... you have the high and mightly pleasure of LIVING in a place where such things as this thread on QRZ.COM exists, is permitted to continue, AND people do so without fear of being arrested, jailed, (most likely tortured) and possibly killed.

Now you think the words here are 'hateful'?

Let me ask you one thing..

The next time you cut your finger and you feel the pain.. see the blood... and experience that unpleasant twinge of overall physical reactoin to being injured.. STOP AND CONSIDER.. just for a moment.

IMAGINE you are Nick Berg or Johnson.

IMAGINE you are being forced to kneel.

IMAGINE a man with a serrated knife is holding your head back so your neck is exposed.

IMAGINE, now, that the man is placing that knife against your neck.

IMAGINE he is NOW sawing (not cutting, not slicing BUT Sawing) throught your neck, just as if he's cutting roast with a dull blade and has to saw thorugh the bone.

IMAGINE you are concious.

IMAGINE him and his cronies yelling 'ALLAH AKBAR! ALLAH AKBAR' and working themselves into a frenzy as you writhe in pain and scream for your life.

IMAGINE this goes on for several minutes as your brain is overwhelmed with the incredible agony of the pain you are feeling AND at the same time your ears ring with the shouting &quot;ALLAH AKBAR!&quot; as these men rejoice in the pain they are inflicting upon you SIMPLY BECAUSE you are

1) An American

2)A Westerner

3) Considered 'an infidel' andLOWER than pond scum - in their mind - and no more worthy of pity than a house fly.

IMAGINE that as you lose enough blood (or the blade saws thorugh your spinal cord) that you FINALLY lose conciousness and die.

NOW.. after all that... one last thing.

IMAGINE you are your wife or your daughter....

IMAGINE you happen to SEE/HEAR this on the TV/RADIO.

IMAGINE reporters asking you &quot;How do you feel knowing your husband was beheaded?&quot;

AND YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE ABOUT THOSE EVIL MINDLESS BASTARDS?

Come now.. Just IMAGINE the above and THEN tell me what you think.

Just food for thought.

If the preceeding offended some and seemed a bit graphic.. trust me.. you ain't seen graphic tillyou've seen one of these barbaric acts in full-resolution video on a decent screen.

I did because I had to for another project/purpose/reason.

Saw it once.. don't need to see any more.

There is no quarter to be given, no mercy to be shown, no excuses.

They set the ground rules.. they made the game. We fight for real and take 'em out. NOT as they did to us.. but we use all the lethal means we have to eradicate them.

Those who support/harbor/encourage/promote them.. FINE. YOu are in the game too.

There ain't NOTHING worse (for you) than a righteously pissed off American with a valid and honorable mission and a cause.

K3FT

[KC8QMU]

FT,

Amen. brother.


Screw them and their religion.


I suppose that the point we need to remember is that most Iraqis are not like this, and wish to have their own government. As much as I dislike the &quot;ragheads&quot; (oops, did I say that? I better not get on 20M and say that, I'll get a letter), we have to remember that the decent Iraqis ARE trying to fight to establish their government, and consequently are dying is numbers larger than our troops. As much as I hate the militants, we must also realize that they terrorize and kill those on our side in Iraq even more than our soldiers and civilian workers. Revolution cannot be accomplished by outsiders, it has to be wanted within. The Iraqis have a tough row to hoe in front of them.

As far as this country goes, I believe we need MORE racial profiling in order to try to stop those that want to carry on further terrorist attacks. As far as I'm concerned, if you are a middle eastern student or non-resident the government should give you a ticket back to your &quot;homeland&quot;. Yes, I understand that there will be innocent people inconvinienced, and I truly feel bad for them, but where we are right now in this country calls for severe measures. I believe our government, who clearly dropped the ball on 9/11, needs to at all costs do everything possible to keep these people out, and to get them the hell out of this country.

I'm sure a few bleeding hearts are going to flame me and call me a racist and a bigot, but tell me one thing...... when you see a person of middle eastern decent in an airport, what is the first thing that runs through your mind? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 19 2004,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.

And the language in here is something else too. Why I oughtta warsh your mouths out with soap.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
TOD...

Don't make this a political debate, this isn't about politics, this is for our survival.

They don't care about our political affiliations, they want you, me, and any other American or westerner DEAD!

One thing to think about. I can guarantee you there were those on those planes and buildings on 9/11 that died who thought as you and some others do. Voted for Gore or whomever else besides Bush or right-wingers. There were lefties, moderates, and righties who went to their deaths.

Did Atta and his henchmen care whether or not they wanted to try and understand their anger? The answer to that is blantantly obvious. We are all a target TOD... It's us or them.

Don't politicize this mess... Fight or die!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[K9TOD]

You want a war? Fine. I declare a war on illogical arguments.

I hope I can clarify my last post by making a correction. Please REPLACE the words &quot;right wing propaganda&quot; with the words &quot;talk like a bunch of drunk, gun-toting rednecks&quot;

Let's get down to business.

K6UEY, you wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you think the United States War against Terrorists,and the attack of the World by the AQ and the sensless murder of American citizens by chopping off their heads is disturbing your day,why don't you complain to the familiy's of those who have been killed,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because the families of those who have been killed are not using the &quot;F&quot; word in the QRZ forum.

Next.

KG4KWW in his infinite wisdom wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for K9TOD, if you like these people so much, go live with them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I never said anything about liking anyone. I don't even know what this topic is about because I didn't want to read it. It seems like a menagerie of inappropriate subjects accented by an &quot;F---&quot; here and an &quot;SOB&quot; there.

Moving right along.

AD4MG pointed out:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Respectfully, I offer the Title of this Forum:

&quot;Talk and Opinions&quot;.

The title does not indicate anything about amateur radio. #The moderators allow some leeway, and this particular topic begs discussion. #Might I suggest you &quot;change the channel&quot;.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The title of the forum does not indicate anything about amateur radio. The title of the website however, does. If the moderators have to allow some leeway for these kinds of topics and foul language, you seem to be admitting that this topic is inapproriate. And I tuned into this &quot;channel&quot; to read topics pertaining to amateur radio. Had I known what I was going to read in this post, I'd probably go do something else instead. I was misled into browsing topics here thinking they were going to be about ham radio. I didn't think adding small print to every forum explaining that the web site is about ham radio was necessary. But apparently it is.

Ah man. I gotta read all this crap...
K3FT, I will break yours up into smaller pieces so I can respond more clearly.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOD.. of course, the ONE thing you must admit... you have the high and mightly pleasure of LIVING in a place where such things as this thread on QRZ.COM exists, is permitted to continue, AND people do so without fear of being arrested, jailed, (most likely tortured) and possibly killed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> Maybe that's the problem. We can post inappropriate and offensive topics in a Ham Radio forum and not have to fear getting killed, maimed or jailed. But in what ways does this make it an appropriate topic? That's all I ever mentioned. I never said anything about personal freedoms.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let me ask you one thing..

The next time you cut your finger and you feel the pain.. see the blood... and experience that unpleasant twinge of overall physical reactoin to being injured.. STOP AND CONSIDER.. just for a moment.

IMAGINE you are Nick Berg or Johnson.

IMAGINE you are being forced to kneel.

IMAGINE a man with a serrated knife is holding your head back so your neck is exposed.

IMAGINE, now, that the man is placing that knife against your neck.

IMAGINE he is NOW sawing (not cutting, not slicing BUT Sawing) throught your neck, just as if he's cutting roast with a dull blade and has to saw thorugh the bone.

IMAGINE you are concious.

IMAGINE him and his cronies yelling 'ALLAH AKBAR! ALLAH AKBAR' and working themselves into a frenzy as you writhe in pain and scream for your life.

IMAGINE this goes on for several minutes as your brain is overwhelmed with the incredible agony of the pain you are feeling AND at the same time your ears ring with the shouting &quot;ALLAH AKBAR!&quot; as these men rejoice in the pain they are inflicting upon you SIMPLY BECAUSE you are

1) An American

2)A Westerner

3) Considered 'an infidel' andLOWER than pond scum - in their mind - and no more worthy of pity than a house fly.

IMAGINE #that as you lose enough blood (or the blade saws thorugh your spinal cord) that you FINALLY lose conciousness and die.

NOW.. after all that... one last thing.

IMAGINE you are your wife or your daughter....

IMAGINE you happen to SEE/HEAR this on the TV/RADIO.

IMAGINE reporters asking you &quot;How do you feel knowing your husband was beheaded?&quot;

AND YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE ABOUT THOSE EVIL MINDLESS BASTARDS?

Come now.. Just IMAGINE the above and THEN tell me what you think.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think the topic is still inappropriate and offensive. Now I think it's scary too. I have concerns about what is written here because as we all know that there are young hams, new hams and potential hams viewing these forums. To read topics such as these would give them the wrong idea about what ham radio is about. There are plenty of forums internet-wide where you can discuss how you would like to decapitate the -whoever it is-. And you might want to research the whole story about Nick Berg, who was not in the armed forces.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the preceeding offended some and seemed a #bit graphic.. trust me.. you ain't seen graphic tillyou've seen one of these barbaric acts in full-resolution video on a decent screen.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Funny, I thought I felt an apology coming on after the first few words. You are right, this is a graphic thread, it belongs on any number of other web site forums. This forum is about ham radio topics.

Buckle your seatbelts, for this next one.
KC8QMU, although you did not address my topic (wise move) I am compelled to quote your message anyway as it is the perfect example of why moderators are needed on this forum.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FT,

#Amen. brother.


#Screw them and their religion. #


#I suppose that the point we need to remember is that most Iraqis are not like this, and wish to have their own government. #As much as I dislike the &quot;ragheads&quot; (oops, did I say that? #I better not get on 20M and say that, I'll get a letter), we have to remember that the decent Iraqis ARE trying to fight to establish their government, and consequently are dying is numbers larger than our troops. #As much as I hate the militants, we must also realize that they terrorize and kill those on our side in Iraq even more than our soldiers and civilian workers. #Revolution cannot be accomplished by outsiders, it has to be wanted within. #The Iraqis have a tough row to hoe in front of them.

# As far as this country goes, I believe we need MORE racial profiling in order to try to stop those that want to carry on further terrorist attacks. #As far as I'm concerned, if you are a middle eastern student or non-resident the government should give you a ticket back to your &quot;homeland&quot;. #Yes, I understand that there will be innocent people inconvinienced, and I truly feel bad for them, but where we are right now in this country calls for severe measures. #I believe our government, who clearly dropped the ball on 9/11, needs to at all costs #do everything possible to keep these people out, and to get them the hell out of this country.

I'm sure a few bleeding hearts are going to flame me and call me a racist and a bigot, but tell me one thing...... #when you see a person of middle eastern decent in an airport, what is the first thing that runs through your mind?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hate in it's purest form.

I will address the faulty premise at the bottom.

If a traveller thinks a &quot;raghead&quot; (as you so eloquently phrased it) in an airport is a terrorist, then the traveller is a racist.

While this may be a subconscious sterotype for many people who don't have anything else on their minds at the time they are in the airport, it doesn't mean they are racists. Why? Because racism the belief that race is the only thing that establishes human capacities and traits and that a particular race is superior to others.

In other words, you can think someone is a terrorist because they have olive skin, but without the belief that your race is better than theirs, you are not a racist.

Furthermore, I personally believe that the majority of caucasians living in the US have thought about racial differences or do think about them on a regular basis. But I don't think the most Americans discrimate or publicly display hateful feelings towards other races.

However, you have. And this thread is ready for removal, as it's clearly crossed the line of inappropriate at this stage.

I think I answered all your questions and hopefully I have cleared things up a bit.

[K6UEY]

K9TOD,
You come on here with this crap that your time is being wasted about the terrorist situation in the world saying you only want to read posts about Amateur Radio,what about the posting you do about the Internet,I don't give a rats patootie about the Internet and Google mail boxes and your super gigafloopy computer,so why is it OK for you to waste our time ,but you must have selective topics to read? And any youngsters who read this forum and run from Amateur Radio it is a public service, they have no business here if they do not have the interest. That's one of the major problems now,we have too many entry level NCT's who have no concept of Amateur Radio,yet they want to shoot off their mouth and change things to suit themselves.

TOD..


I should not further respond to you because you stated, clearly, in your 'response' to us all you stated

&quot;TOD - .....Please REPLACE the words &quot;right wing propaganda&quot; with the words &quot;talk like a bunch of drunk, gun-toting rednecks&quot;&quot;

De K3FT - I gather, then, that the words from the Arab terrorists (and on their websites) where they publicly state 'KILL ALL AMERICANS' #is OK then? # **HAVE YOU GONE TO THEIR WEBSITE AND POSTED RESPONSES TO THEM??**

Further you state in respnose to K6UEY's comment where UEY states &quot;If you think the United States War against Terrorists,and the attack of the World by the AQ and the sensless murder of American citizens by chopping off their heads is disturbing your day,why don't you complain to the familiy's of those who have been killed, &quot;

You replied 'TOD - Because the families of those who have been killed are not using the &quot;F&quot; word in the QRZ forum.&quot;

De k3ft.. You equate an appearance of the 'F-bomb' on QRZ.COM &lt;which is RARE, very RARE&gt; being MORE DISTURBING than a person's family hearing/seeing/knowing that thier family member had their head severed from their body? #You CAN'T BE SERIOUS and are quite the troll. The 'T-METER is pegged even more than it was for 'Concerned Father' on another thread.

However, being equitable, IFyou are NOT a troll, but are serious (AND I DOUBT THIS IS THE CASE) then you are highly in need of some SERIOUS introduction into the REAL WORLD of World History.

IN SUPPORT OF BELIEVING YOU ARE A 10000 PERCENT TROLL... I give you YOUR OWN WORDS..

You state... &quot;TOD - .....I don't even know what this topic is about because I didn't want to read it. It seems like a menagerie of inappropriate subjects accented by an &quot;F---&quot; here and an &quot;SOB&quot; there.&quot;

De k3ft.. THAT exposes you as a TROLL. #You ADMIT you don't want to read the topic. You lump it together with the generic statement 'A menagerie of inappropriate subjects...&quot; #

YET! you extract and respond to specific comments made so OBVIOUSLY you have read it.

Again.. this points, handily, ot the TROLL label because I find it awfully hard to conceive of someone being THAT disconnected from reality.

TO TAKE A LINE FROM &quot;BRAIN SALAD SURGERY&quot; By Emerson, Lake, and Palmer

&quot;TROLL ON!! #TROLL ON!! TROLL ON!!! #SEE THE SHOW!!!!&quot;

However, on the VERY VERY SMALL OFF-CHANCE that you are simply misinformed or misguided, I'll continue...



TOD, The arguments here are not illogical. What is illogical is the evil ones who TOOK THE ACTION to behead two people (as well as other terroristic acts against innocent people) SIMPLY because (I repeat)

1) They were Americans

2) They were Westerners

3) They were NOT of the 'preferred' faith

Things such as terroristic acts ARE - by definition - illogical, therefore to try to reason with it on a logical basis IS neither rational nor appropriate.

You CAN deal with from a logical perspective as you devise ways to handle it, but the understanding MUST be that they are ILLOGICAL therefore analyzing it from a logical perspective to find some 'deeper and more perfect meaning' cannot be done. Hate, illogic, and evil HAVE no such foundations.

A QUESTION OR TWO FOR YOU.

After December 7th, 1941 - Do you think it proper that the United States took the 'all out war for victory' against the Empire of Japan - OR - do you feel that all the publicity, public outcry, commentary and the like was 'offensive and inappropriate and should have been deleted?'

After the Nazi's were exposed for what they were (and still are) do you feel that such expressions as came about from the World were 'offensive, inappropriate, and should be deleted'?

After the evil ones murdered 241 American Marines in the Khobar Towers, or the USS Cole was attacked by terorrists and the expected outcryand publicity about those evil doers was 'inappropriate, offensive, and should be deleted'?

You will see VERY VERY few illustrations of the 'F' word on QRZ.COM.. Yes, some may 'slip through' but trust me... Honorable Moderator is always lurking about and folks here know (or those that don't know soon find out) that 'K9STH's Wouff Hong is always charged and ready to be applied to those who need it.'

Methinks that you will see/read/hear more 'F' bombs in a day on most daytime TV shows (where it's regulated) than you will read on QRZ.COM in a year or more. #&quot;THAT'S A FACT, JACK!&quot; (to quote Bill Murray's line from 'Stripes'

You OBVIOUSLY have VERY LITTLE understanding of the American psyche when it comes to how we act/react towards evil ones such as terrorists.

An American is willing - more than willing - to let another Country do pretty much whatever it wants to inside its borders as it relates to how it manages its own affairs.

We want to trade with you.. we want to come visit.. we want to let you see and experience who we are and come visit US and get to know us. Hell, we even want to do business inside your Country and put businesses there and employ YOUR citizenry!

( I know.. call me weird.. but even if we bring our American culture with us.. we are STILL willing to stay in Compounds and restrict ourselves WHILE we LET YOU come to our Country and export and spread YOUR culture about the Country. NOW THAT is something to think of, huh?)

BUT let that Country &lt;OR ITS CITIZENS&gt; export evil such as the fanataical Arabs have exports to US (or our Allies) and we tend to get angry about that. #(Don't YOU get angry when someone attacks YOUR FAMILY and FRIENDS? OR do you just sit and shake your head and cluck 'My oh MY! That's too bad, but I must #not write or speak anything bad about them for fear of being inappropriate or inoffensive!'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

When WE are attacked and we go to war we fight to defeat them and make it impossible for them to fight. (See WW1, WW2)

Then.. you know what happens?? THE MOST PERPLEXING THING!!!.. We come in and say 'Hey! We'll help you rebuild so you can back on your feet and rejoin the World Community!'

Ain't that something? #Bet that perplexes you doesn't it!!

One cold, hard, realistic fact exists.

(If you have seen the movie 'TERMINATOR' with Arnold Schwarzenegger, here is a line. The scene is where the guy is telling Sarah Connor about the Terminator. He says

&quot;Don't you get it! IT can't be reasoned with!......It will not stop until you ARE DEAD!&quot;

That is, in a nutshell, what EVIL is - and these people are EVIL.

They can't be reasoned with.

They can't be persuaded NOT to do what they do.

They can't be negotiated with.

They will NOT stop until YOU (meaning 'infidel, western, American people'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif are D E A D or under THEIR subjection and under their brand of 'religious fanaticism'.

THAT IS THE COLD, HARD, REALITY.

Your other comments are non-sequiters or irrelevant to the topic, which you state 'you haven't read'.

BTW.. if you find this so INAPPROPRIATE AND OFFENSIVE.. WHY are you even bothering to respond to something you have't even read??

VERY STRANGE!!!


K3FT

[W0LC]

To the familty of Paul Johnson:

I am truly sorry and saddened at his untimely death. I can only pray that God's wrath and anger will fall upon these cowardly individuals that murder in the name of religion. Paul was no threat to them or anyone else. Our prayers are with you!

As to the post: It is hard to catch anyone that hides within the populace, behind women and children. Who knew that Timothy McVeigh was going to set off a bomb in OKC?

Military intelligence, satellites, etc., aren't God. They can't see and know everything. What needs to be done, in my personal opinion, is to block by block, search each residence, etc., tear down known safe houses, patrol nightly, etc., and force these animals to hide.

Keep in mind. If our military wasn't there, I wouldn't doubt these sick individuals would be over here. As it stands, it is only a matter of time, and then it may turn into a war against anyone that is of Islam, whether they are peace loving or not. It will be a matter of survival.

This is only a taste of what Israel has been dealing with for decades.

[W0LC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 19 2004,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.

And the language in here is something else too. Why I oughtta warsh your mouths out with soap.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
TOD: Individuals are fed up with innocent murdering of individuals. Just about anything is posted and discussed here. You will hear the same thing on the amateur bands (I know I did).

Emotions are high and Americans aren't ones to cower. We prefer that justice be served on individuals that do such things, just as we demand justice for the individuals that were involved in the prisoner abuse in Iraq. We may not be a perfect nation, but we do believe in justice.

If you don't like a posting, the best recommendation is either not read it or don't respond to it. There are some I avoid when I see them. The choice is yours OM.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 20 2004,21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You want a war? Fine. I declare a war on illogical arguments.

I hope I can clarify my last post by making a correction. Please REPLACE the words &quot;right wing propaganda&quot; with the words &quot;talk like a bunch of drunk, gun-toting rednecks&quot;

Let's get down to business.

K6UEY, you wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you think the United States War against Terrorists,and the attack of the World by the AQ and the sensless murder of American citizens by chopping off their heads is disturbing your day,why don't you complain to the familiy's of those who have been killed,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because the families of those who have been killed are not using the &quot;F&quot; word in the QRZ forum.

Next.

KG4KWW in his infinite wisdom wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for K9TOD, if you like these people so much, go live with them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I never said anything about liking anyone. I don't even know what this topic is about because I didn't want to read it. It seems like a menagerie of inappropriate subjects accented by an &quot;F---&quot; here and an &quot;SOB&quot; there.

Moving right along.

AD4MG pointed out:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Respectfully, I offer the Title of this Forum:

&quot;Talk and Opinions&quot;.

The title does not indicate anything about amateur radio. #The moderators allow some leeway, and this particular topic begs discussion. #Might I suggest you &quot;change the channel&quot;.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The title of the forum does not indicate anything about amateur radio. The title of the website however, does. If the moderators have to allow some leeway for these kinds of topics and foul language, you seem to be admitting that this topic is inapproriate. And I tuned into this &quot;channel&quot; to read topics pertaining to amateur radio. Had I known what I was going to read in this post, I'd probably go do something else instead. I was misled into browsing topics here thinking they were going to be about ham radio. I didn't think adding small print to every forum explaining that the web site is about ham radio was necessary. But apparently it is.

Ah man. I gotta read all this crap...
K3FT, I will break yours up into smaller pieces so I can respond more clearly.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOD.. of course, the ONE thing you must admit... you have the high and mightly pleasure of LIVING in a place where such things as this thread on QRZ.COM exists, is permitted to continue, AND people do so without fear of being arrested, jailed, (most likely tortured) and possibly killed.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> Maybe that's the problem. We can post inappropriate and offensive topics in a Ham Radio forum and not have to fear getting killed, maimed or jailed. But in what ways does this make it an appropriate topic? That's all I ever mentioned. I never said anything about personal freedoms.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let me ask you one thing..

The next time you cut your finger and you feel the pain.. see the blood... and experience that unpleasant twinge of overall physical reactoin to being injured.. STOP AND CONSIDER.. just for a moment.

IMAGINE you are Nick Berg or Johnson.

IMAGINE you are being forced to kneel.

IMAGINE a man with a serrated knife is holding your head back so your neck is exposed.

IMAGINE, now, that the man is placing that knife against your neck.

IMAGINE he is NOW sawing (not cutting, not slicing BUT Sawing) throught your neck, just as if he's cutting roast with a dull blade and has to saw thorugh the bone.

IMAGINE you are concious.

IMAGINE him and his cronies yelling 'ALLAH AKBAR! ALLAH AKBAR' and working themselves into a frenzy as you writhe in pain and scream for your life.

IMAGINE this goes on for several minutes as your brain is overwhelmed with the incredible agony of the pain you are feeling AND at the same time your ears ring with the shouting &quot;ALLAH AKBAR!&quot; as these men rejoice in the pain they are inflicting upon you SIMPLY BECAUSE you are

1) An American

2)A Westerner

3) Considered 'an infidel' andLOWER than pond scum - in their mind - and no more worthy of pity than a house fly.

IMAGINE #that as you lose enough blood (or the blade saws thorugh your spinal cord) that you FINALLY lose conciousness and die.

NOW.. after all that... one last thing.

IMAGINE you are your wife or your daughter....

IMAGINE you happen to SEE/HEAR this on the TV/RADIO.

IMAGINE reporters asking you &quot;How do you feel knowing your husband was beheaded?&quot;

AND YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE ABOUT THOSE EVIL MINDLESS BASTARDS?

Come now.. Just IMAGINE the above and THEN tell me what you think.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think the topic is still inappropriate and offensive. Now I think it's scary too. I have concerns about what is written here because as we all know that there are young hams, new hams and potential hams viewing these forums. To read topics such as these would give them the wrong idea about what ham radio is about. There are plenty of forums internet-wide where you can discuss how you would like to decapitate the -whoever it is-. And you might want to research the whole story about Nick Berg, who was not in the armed forces.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the preceeding offended some and seemed a #bit graphic.. trust me.. you ain't seen graphic tillyou've seen one of these barbaric acts in full-resolution video on a decent screen.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Funny, I thought I felt an apology coming on after the first few words. You are right, this is a graphic thread, it belongs on any number of other web site forums. This forum is about ham radio topics.

Buckle your seatbelts, for this next one.
KC8QMU, although you did not address my topic (wise move) I am compelled to quote your message anyway as it is the perfect example of why moderators are needed on this forum.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FT,

#Amen. brother.


#Screw them and their religion. #


#I suppose that the point we need to remember is that most Iraqis are not like this, and wish to have their own government. #As much as I dislike the &quot;ragheads&quot; (oops, did I say that? #I better not get on 20M and say that, I'll get a letter), we have to remember that the decent Iraqis ARE trying to fight to establish their government, and consequently are dying is numbers larger than our troops. #As much as I hate the militants, we must also realize that they terrorize and kill those on our side in Iraq even more than our soldiers and civilian workers. #Revolution cannot be accomplished by outsiders, it has to be wanted within. #The Iraqis have a tough row to hoe in front of them.

# As far as this country goes, I believe we need MORE racial profiling in order to try to stop those that want to carry on further terrorist attacks. #As far as I'm concerned, if you are a middle eastern student or non-resident the government should give you a ticket back to your &quot;homeland&quot;. #Yes, I understand that there will be innocent people inconvinienced, and I truly feel bad for them, but where we are right now in this country calls for severe measures. #I believe our government, who clearly dropped the ball on 9/11, needs to at all costs #do everything possible to keep these people out, and to get them the hell out of this country.

I'm sure a few bleeding hearts are going to flame me and call me a racist and a bigot, but tell me one thing...... #when you see a person of middle eastern decent in an airport, what is the first thing that runs through your mind?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hate in it's purest form.

I will address the faulty premise at the bottom.

If a traveller thinks a &quot;raghead&quot; (as you so eloquently phrased it) in an airport is a terrorist, then the traveller is a racist.

While this may be a subconscious sterotype for many people who don't have anything else on their minds at the time they are in the airport, it doesn't mean they are racists. Why? Because racism the belief that race is the only thing that establishes human capacities and traits and that a particular race is superior to others.

In other words, you can think someone is a terrorist because they have olive skin, but without the belief that your race is better than theirs, you are not a racist.

Furthermore, I personally believe that the majority of caucasians living in the US have thought about racial differences or do think about them on a regular basis. But I don't think the most Americans discrimate or publicly display hateful feelings towards other races.

However, you have. And this thread is ready for removal, as it's clearly crossed the line of inappropriate at this stage.

I think I answered all your questions and hopefully I have cleared things up a bit.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
TOD...

Quit ducking your head in the sand and see the cold harsh reality for what it is.

They WANT us D-E-A-D!!

This COULD possibly be coming to our shores VERY SOON and the philosophy that you carry makes you one of the easiest prey for them to kill.

My friend... WAKE UP!!

[ad4mg]

K9TOD:
&quot;If the moderators have to allow some leeway for these kinds of topics and foul language, you seem to be admitting that this topic is inapproriate.&quot;

No sir ... I didn't admit anything of the sort. #If you must quote me, then forget the analysis. #Its incorrect.

K9TOD:
&quot;Ah man. I gotta read all this crap...&quot;

No sir, you don't have to. #This is America.

K9TOD:
&quot;I think I answered all your questions and hopefully I have cleared things up a bit.&quot;

But I didn't ask any questions.

You can still change that channel, but only if you want to!

73,
Luke

[N0PU]

I keep getting the feeling that some folks are going off the deep end here...

The folks doing and supporting those doing these things are a VERY small minority of the middle east population.

Because these things have happened does not make all 'Towel Heads' bad. It makes those who support AQ bad.

It really is that simple...

The reason most of the larger population of 'towel heads' are mad at the USA is because we have been abusing them for so many years... [I dare ya to ask for proof of that!]... and I believe the larger population has every right to be pissed off at us... however, the majority 'towel head' population is also outraged at the actions of the AQ in beheading folks... This is not considered polite treatment of guests...

Are ya'll as peed off at the coming beheading of the Korean fella who has been begging for his life on TV? I suspect he is already dead...

NOW, looking at the AQ and deciding to hate all 'towel heads' is like looking at the KKK and deciding to hate all Americans...

Why aren't you pissed off at all white american men... after all a white american man bombed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City... Is it because YOU don't wanna be on a hate list... go figure... neither do millions of middle easterners.... but that is what some of you are doing...

We must stop putting large groups into boxes for the wrong reasons...

How do I get this across to you folks...

What you are saying is that:

1. All AQ are Middle Easterners.
2. All AQ are Bad.
Therefore all Middle Easterners are Bad...

And that is lousy logic... and for those of you who don't understand that... it is lousy logic because not all Middle Easterners are AQ!

Ya know we put a lot of Japanese Americans in camps during WWII... We didn't do that to German Americans.... WHY?... Because Japanese Americans were readily identifiable and German Americans were not... It comes down to White skinned folks are good, and all others are bad or at a minimum suspected of being bad.... What kind of thinking is that?

Please try to direct your Hate at those who deserve it...

Please try to be smart enough to be able to differentiate between the REAL bad guys and just plain folks trying to live a reasonable life...

[K6UEY]

So we are not going to sit like a piece of milktoast and wait until we see the muzzle flash!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0PU @ June 21 2004,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I keep getting the feeling that some folks are going off the deep end here...

The folks doing and supporting those doing these things are a VERY small minority of the middle east population.

Because these things have happened does not make all 'Towel Heads' bad. It makes those who support AQ bad.

It really is that simple...

The reason most of the larger population of 'towel heads' are mad at the USA is because we have been abusing them for so many years... [I dare ya to ask for proof of that!]... and I believe the larger population has every right to be pissed off at us... however, the majority 'towel head' population is also outraged at the actions of the AQ in beheading folks... This is not considered polite treatment of guests...

Are ya'll as peed off at the coming beheading of the Korean fella who has been begging for his life on TV? I suspect he is already dead...

NOW, looking at the AQ and deciding to hate all 'towel heads' is like looking at the KKK and deciding to hate all Americans...

Why aren't you pissed off at all white american men... after all a white american man bombed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City... Is it because YOU don't wanna be on a hate list... go figure... neither do millions of middle easterners.... but that is what some of you are doing...

We must stop putting large groups into boxes for the wrong reasons...

How do I get this across to you folks...

What you are saying is that:

1. All AQ are Middle Easterners.
2. All AQ are Bad.
Therefore all Middle Easterners are Bad...

And that is lousy logic... and for those of you who don't understand that... it is lousy logic because not all Middle Easterners are AQ!

Ya know we put a lot of Japanese Americans in camps during WWII... We didn't do that to German Americans.... WHY?... Because Japanese Americans were readily identifiable and German Americans were not... It comes down to White skinned folks are good, and all others are bad or at a minimum suspected of being bad.... What kind of thinking is that?

Please try to direct your Hate at those who deserve it...

Please try to be smart enough to be able to differentiate between the REAL bad guys and just plain folks trying to live a reasonable life...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
PU...

This is who I am talking about. I am not talking about the one's who practice it and prefer to be left alone by either the extremeist or us.

I am not saying wipe these people out, I am talking about the ones who kill and shed innocent blood.

The one thing to consider is the one's who will become quickly warped in their mind to replace these monsters.

[N0PU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 21 2004,07:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So we are not going to sit like a piece of milktoast and wait until we see the muzzle flash!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, if we were looking for their leaders in Afghanistan with all the manpower diverted to this dumb Iraqi thing then we might have a chance of finding them...

All we have done in Iraq is bring the AQ in with us...
How dumb is that...

And Orv, you and I WILL just sit here 'til we see the muzzle flash... We're too dern'd old to be tromping around a bunch of huge sand dunes...

We'll sit here a hope the younger guys and gals over there can handle the job....and I'm sure they can if we don't start a bunch more wars and spread them so thin they can't find each other much less AQ...

[N0PU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ June 21 2004,08:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PU...

This is who I am talking about. I am not talking about the one's who practice it and prefer to be left alone by either the extremeist or us.

I am not saying wipe these people out, I am talking about the ones who kill and shed innocent blood.

The one thing to consider is the one's who will become quickly warped in their mind to replace these monsters.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know... but there are a few on here who seem to think the answer is to Nuke the entire Middle East...

And that kind of thinking is just plain dumb!

More than that it is childish...
More than that it is the same kind of thinking that lops people's head off...

Same mentality!

[K9STH]

Let everyone calm down an octave (or two)! I do not see anything wrong with this subject (although I would not have started it myself!). However, certain racial slurs like &quot;raghead&quot; are unappropriate for the QRZ.com site and I caution everyone from using them.

Everyone remember that of all of the forums on QRZ.com only the Talk &amp; Opinions forum is designed to allow people to &quot;get things off their chests&quot;. As such, the topics often vary from amateur radio. Also, everyone needs to remember that I am the only person who &quot;has&quot; to read the posts (and sometimes that does &quot;take&quot; some &quot;doing&quot;!). Everyone else can certainly not read any, or all, post that is contained within the Talk &amp; Opinions forum.

Just remember

No profanity

No obscenities

No personal attacks

and everything should be fine! Also, remember that racial slurs are not allowed. Calling an Arab and Arab is a matter of fact. But, calling an Arab a &quot;raghead&quot; is not!

The Talk &amp; Opinions forum is also the only forum on QRZ.com that allows &quot;PG&quot; language rather than &quot;G&quot;. However, also remember that we try to keep the &quot;PG&quot; more towards the &quot;G&quot; end rather than the &quot;R&quot; end!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[K6UEY]

Harry you are so right,we and many others are too old to be drudging through the sand dunes,but we can support the troops and the administration from this side so our troops who are riskiing their ass will know we are behind them,and will supply material and encouragement until the job is done. More troops in Afghanastan is not the answer,he is comfortable across the border in Pakistan,who won't allow us in to get him .Remember the Talleban was originated in Pakistan and they support Bin Laden.Our big problem in Pakistan is we promised them help over the situation in India,then walked out on them,that dog has come back to bite us in the ass,now people want to do the same foolish thing again in Iraq,where we did it twice before,first walking out on the KURDS, then again on the Summies(sp). The US has got to stand the ground until the job is done we have a reputation of walking out when the going gets tough....... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Harry, N0PU..

ANYONE.. and I don't care if you are an American, Arab, whatever.. ANYONE who committs murder (regardless of whether it's ONE or many).. is deserving of having thier own life ended. PERIOD. FULL STOP. (This assumes, of course, that they are guilty of said crime, naturally!)

McVeigh, Nichols, Al Quaida, Idiot Arab murderers, idiot Jewish murders, idiot criminal murderers. I don't give a patootie about their background. I will hold the same opinion about the folks who (may have but not yet confirmed) murdered the South Korean gentleman as I do about the Americans who were murdered.

ID 'em.. get the info.. find 'em. Finish the job.

I have ZERO animosity towards anyone who has a different opinion or belief system than I do. I DO have great animosity towards those who will attempt to change MY culture because THEY want to make it 'their own'.

I don't call names such as the ones Glen mentioned. But I will not mince words when it comes to identifying them by thier country of origin, their affiliation with a group, or their affiliation wtih a belief system. That's the only way to properly ID them so others know who and what is being discussed.

The bottom line is this..

You can attempt to equate the things we Americans may have done in the Arab world to provoke them with THEIR reaction to it by beheading/murdering innocent folks.

HOW the two can be linked in some form of equal status is beyond my ability to understand. To equate going after terrorists, murderers, and those who support same with the murder of innocents.. well, it's beyond my comprehension to understand how that equality is made.

One day.. those who refuse to see are going to have their eyes rather rudely opened and then wonder 'HOW DID THIS HAPPEN!!?? WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT!!??'

Sigh..

(Glen, I have a question... how many 'F-bombs' have been dropped on QRZ.COM over the past year - roughly speaking. From my recollection I see a lot of F--- or F**** or 'F' other but I honestly can't recall seeing MAYBE one or two (and you took care of those people PDQ))

Just curious.

73
K3FT

[K6UEY]

For the what it's worth dept.,I don't recall seeing a F bomb on QRZ in a long time. When the other poster made reference to it I was surprised,but figured that Glen had gotten to it before I came along. I do see some F***** words used but those like using the &quot;N&quot; word I just ignore,if you have to use a word to express a point and it is critical to what you are writting then say it ,none of the kindergarten using a letter and pretending it is referenced to something else ,hell there are 26 letters to our alaphabet and I would be willing to bet money some one could find an objection to every letter which would leave us trying to communicate with only punctiation and numbers,and some one would object to that .
I feel better, always good to express a pet peeve once in awhile,after all in another topic I was advised I was peevish,also arrogant,I am sure the peevish comes from being able to make up my mind, and stick to it,and the arrogance must come from knowing I'm right about what my decision was,so I must admit my accuser must have been accurate. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k0ews]

The Saudi situation is interesting. #It's just now that the Saudis are starting to take the whole terrorism thing seriously. #They have endured more attacks from AQ in the last year than anyone else. #It will be interesting to see what happens there. #I think what may happen eventually is a Saudi civil war. #The ultra extremist groups like AQ are looking for an islamist state, much like the Taliban had in Afghanistan. #Compared to our society, the Saudis are very conservative, but even that is much too liberal for groups like AQ. #Those that think we should pull out of the mid-east all together and stop buying oil from Saudi, remember one thing; Saudi Arabia is not rich. #The royal family is rich, and the government has money to not tax its citizenry, but without oil exports, it turns into a third world hole in a big hurry. #When that happens, you have the same situation that you had in Afghanistan in 96 with the Taliban. #
The solution? #I'm not sure there is one. #We've never been able to stop crime, nor terrorism ever. #We can just try to make ourselves safer. #That means beefing up our intelligence departments(The NSA is short of manpower right now...not enough folks speak Arabic). #Also, beefing up security on our shores and taking precautions. #
Those that think that there was no link between AQ and Iraq, that's NOT what the 9/11 commision said. #They said that there was no link between Iraq and 9/11. #There are many links between Iraq and AQ. #In a round about way, I think Gulf War I was a big motivation for AQ and their ire against the USA. #Prior to that, we had never put any troops on the ground anywhere in the region. #In the days following the invasion of Kuwait, the US government had to do a LOT of negotiating on even putting troops in the Kingdom. #Once the war was over, we never left. #Why? #Because Saddam was in power. #When did AQ start attacking the USA? #February 93 with the first WTC bombing. #They've been at it ever since. #Why? #We still have a presence in the region; as we never left it since 90, as to contain Saddam. #My bigger concern is that the moment we pull out of the region, Iran will invade Iraq. #They are already massing troops near the border with Iraq. #As bad as Saddam was, his presence did balance out the region in a geopolitical sense; he kept the Iranians in check. #With a fledgeling new govenment, the moment we pull out of there, my concern is that Iran invades, and trys to create a super state in the region. #
The whole situation is interesting, and needs to be watched. #As for the hostage, his family has my deepest sympathy. #Do we bomb the Arab world back to the stone age in response? #Emotionally, that would be something that is appealing in response to such a gruesome and cowardly act, but it's not really responsible. #Also remember; they guys that did that horrible act are now DEAD themselves; courtesy of the Saudi police. #73 to all.

[kg4kww]

I think, this hostage thing is way out of control and Bush needs to follow in the steps of Harry Truman and put an end to it once and for all.

Have you seen the latest news, these animals are threating to kill yet another hostage. These folks are over there trying help these people re-build. Are these people stupid or what? You don't cut off your nose to spite your face or byte the hand thats feeds you.

Why is Bush so scared to act? Why didn't the Saudi Police find the terrorist sooner?

We the people need answers.

[k0ews]

kg4kww, the Korean hostage is currently being held by Zarkawi(sp?) the AQ operative last known in the Falluja area. He's not an Iraqi, but a Jordanian terrorist, and a senior member of AQ. These are the same people that killed American hostage Nick Berg. The American that was killed this last weekend was done so by a Saudi AQ cell. None of the groups who are doing the killing represent the people we are helping. As for the Saudi police, they got lucky. A citizen saw the car dumping a body, took down the license plate number and called the cops. The cops found the car at a gas station. Pure luck, that's all.
Destroying the entire area doesn't do any good. We need to isolate the terrorists and eliminate them. The process is neither easy, nor fast. Better intelligence will root these guys out in the long run, but that will take time. I wish there were a simple answer but I'm afraid we are stuck with this situation.

[n4ems]

You know, I kinda have to stop and wonder what prompts some of these people who get on the TV and try and &quot;justify&quot; or &quot;explain&quot; why some of these militant groups do what they do.

I just don't get it.

Murder is murder, plain and simple. Beheading someone, unless in some 1:1,000,000,000,000 freak accident, is a premeditated, calculated homicide. There is absolutely no justification for this kind of barbaric treatment of any person!

The Bush administration needs to tighten the screws and stand by the statements they made post 9/11. Nations need to know that America and Americans cannot and willnot tolerate this kind of treatment of American citizens. Period end.

[KB9YCO]

The original post asks the question 'why can't we catch these people?', the answer is because they are an extremist minority using shock value to make their warped point.
Why do you think the events of September 11th took place?
Why do you think they kidnap individuals?
It's because they know that the military might of the United States is too much for them, so they hide in the shadows and make devious little plans to promote their propoganda. They don't have a military that can attack us directly so they try to toy with our emotions realizing that, for the most part, America is a country of sympathetic and caring people.
The war on terror will never be won completely (hopefully the larger part of it will be) because they employ the tactics of hit and run and are served by a minority of religious fantatics, (religions do soooo much service for mankind don't they? More people dead in the name of religion than anything else in history, but that's another story), religious fanatics that realize that this is the ONLY way they can hurt us. By terror campaigns and hateful speeches, suicide bombings and executions, drawing us into conflicts to make it look like we're the aggressors and they are the poor innocent victims.
I don't think that invading Iraq on some shaky pretenses helped to serve our cause either, but I for one, will support our troops and the cause of freedom on this planet. At some point, regardless of philosophical or political differences, we must support freedom for ALL PEOPLE, not just Americans in America, and realize that this is a global economy with limited space, resources, and what affects one place eventually affects us all.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
On to the pet peeve portion of our program, brought to you by _ _ _ _, and makers of _ _ _ _ .

&quot;That's one of the major problems now,we have too many entry level NCT's who have no concept of Amateur Radio,yet they want to shoot off their mouth and change things to suit themselves.&quot; K6UEY

What the hell does this have to do with the topic? Are you really so hung up on that that you must bring it up every f*****g time? Damnit man, I don't think I've ever heard of someone so possessed by this non-topic in my life. Are you really that uptight and un-informed as to assume this garbage you spew forth is true? I don't care what your political leaning is, I don't care what you assume mine is, but damnit , just for the sake of the amateur service can't you just for once try to understand that not all technicians fit this profile, nor did most of them ask for a free ride?
There's so much you could do as a seasoned operator to assure that the hobby continues on in your vision, this crap does nothing but degrade us all and cause more division and mis-understanding. Get a life and get over it already dude! EEEESSSH...
Now, I as well feel better, buh bye.

[K9TOD]

I don't have a lot of time tonight, so this is going to be a short response.
I'm going to skip over the remarks from people who evidently didn't read my last post.

1.) I didn't read this post, because if I wanted to be depressed and bored to death by current events, I'd turn on CNN. #What I did do is skim it, and found some things that not only bore everyone else to death as we hear the same stuff day after day, but ALSO make the hobby look like a political talk show.

2.) The intentions of the original poster may have been different, but it was clear to me that this post and posts just like it are nothing more than a summons to the yayhoos.

3.) If you wouldn't bring a yayhoo to a business meeting and you wouldn't introduce a yayhoo to your mother, why would anyone want a bunch of angry yayhoos posting in forums where young, new and potential hams are browsing?

The argument was never about whether or not I sympathize with terrorists or whether I care if they are going to come and bomb America. The argument was that I think this topic is inappropriate for the QRZ.com forums, if for no other reasons, scroll back up to what I just wrote.

Glen, K9STH:

QRZ is a business. It's in the best interest of that business to keep these forums free from any kind of blight.

As you must already know there's a splendid new ham forum (you know which one I'm talking about) and from what I can tell it's some pretty stiff competition for your readership. At the moment, the greatest risk is losing the yayhoos, because the topics on that other forum are well... You know.

So you can go on and compete with that other site, or you can create an environment that is totally the opposite. And then QRZ will be unique in that it displays an image that all hams could be proud of rather than have to explain to non ham guests that ham radio is a microcosm of the nation, there's wacko looney birds in ham radio too.

QRZ could then reclaim it's title as the greatest, most inclusive source of knowledge on the Internet.

K6UEY:
Topics that are political in nature are taboo in amateur radio. Although you hear it on HF, I don't think I need to remind you of the rules. You passed the exam. Bringing these heated topics into QRZ to get the yayhoos all riled up is creating an environment that's prime to spread these subjects to the air. Yet another reason why this topic is not inappropriate for a different forum, just not this one.

K3FT:
I think I pretty much covered your latest reply in what I just wrote. If you want to call me a Troll, that's fine with me. I've been called worse.

Remember, it takes two to tango. I politely suggested that this topic is inappropriate in a very short reply. You and the others immediately replied with a harsh rebuttal.

One of you wrote something about you think I am the &quot;concerned father&quot; in that other post. LOL. No, I am not but his post did get me thinking. I don't agree 100%, because I know ham radio is not like he described. But I don't blame him for thinking that it is based on some of the content of the various forums.


KD4LEI wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOD...

Quit ducking your head in the sand and see the cold harsh reality for what it is.

They WANT us D-E-A-D!!

This COULD possibly be coming to our shores VERY SOON and the philosophy that you carry makes you one of the easiest prey for them to kill.

My friend... #WAKE UP!! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I realize you are frightened. I am more concerned with Amateur radio being taken over by yayhoos than I am worried about people who want me dead. You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.

The reason: A select few members that are highly opinionated on political subjects will come out of the woodwork. (like they do time after, time after, time) The rest of the QRZ community has ignored this thread as you can see. But the damage will be done, QRZ and our hobby will look bad. And that's all I care about as I find there #is plenty of evidence to suggest the population of good hams is not growing and threads like this don't help.

And Glen, if that's what this forum is here for, then it doesn't help either.

So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.

My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.

[K6UEY]

Well Mr. K9TOD,I don't know, and will not bother to look it up to see how long you have been operating under the misinformation that politics is not allowed as a subject of discussion. First of all not that it matters but the discussion in question happened on QRZ,which is a site on the Internet,which is NOT part of Amateur Radio.Secondly in Amateur Radio which is governed by the rules and regulations under Part 97 there is no provision for it to be just your personal &quot;HOBBY&quot;as a matter of fact there is nothing saying it is a hobby, Hobby is not mentioned in Part 97 at all,but since you certified you were familiar with part 97 you knew all that before.
As to the rules,I have been talking politics ,world situations and many other subjects on the air for the last 50 years,and now you are telling me what I can talk about on an Internet forum because it might lead to discussions on the air?? You have to really be kidding me !! Maybe you should contact that CF from the other topic he can seal you up in a bubble with his 2 kids to protect you from the sins of the world.As far as I'm concerned you can stick your head in the sand and block out what is around you, your choice, but you sure as hell are not going to stop the rest of the world from turning.I will keep this comment short,I sure would not want you wasting time having to read complete postings before making comment....... # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[w5alt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 21 2004,2302)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2.) The intentions of the original poster may have been different, but it was clear to me that this post and posts just like it are nothing more than a summons to the yayhoos.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, it got you to come and post (and me as well). Therefore, you think we are both &quot;yayhoos&quot;.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3.) If you wouldn't bring a yayhoo to a business meeting and you wouldn't introduce a yayhoo to your mother, why would anyone want a bunch of angry yayhoos posting in forums where young, new and potential hams are browsing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you asking for help in determining who are &quot;yayhoos&quot; or are you deciding that on your own? I couldn't find the definition of the word, so since you and I have both replied, we must both be yayhoos? That's OK, because I hate business meetings anyway. And my mother already knows me and no, I wouldn't be afraid to introduce you to her.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So, your whole post wasn't even on topic? Well, from one yayhoo to another, thanks.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, and you contributed one of the longest posts to this thread without reading all the prior comments. You must be proud!

73,

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 21 2004,20<!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I realize you are frightened. I am more concerned with Amateur radio being taken over by yayhoos than I am worried about people who want me dead. You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.

The reason: A select few members that are highly opinionated on political subjects will come out of the woodwork. (like they do time after, time after, time) The rest of the QRZ community has ignored this thread as you can see. But the damage will be done, QRZ and our hobby will look bad. And that's all I care about as I find there #is plenty of evidence to suggest the population of good hams is not growing and threads like this don't help.

And Glen, if that's what this forum is here for, then it doesn't help either.

So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.

My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What makes you think I am afraid of what is coming? #

I am more ticked off than I am afraid of these subhumans. #

K9TOD wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

So you post that you are more concerned about Amateur Radio being taken over by yayhoos. #Really? #I guess your first post wasn't political I take it either? #It certainly got you to respond didn't it? #Hello pot, this is kettle.

I read your posts TOD and you're ducking and whatnot to get out of the topic YOU also got involved in. #I didn't read your posts? #Interesting... #Let's go through some of the responses you wrote.

K9TOD wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Nope, TOD you didn't want to get involved in this topic. #Why you're more concerned with more topics being Amateur Radio related, right? #Sure...

K9TOD wrote:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You want a war? Fine. I declare a war on illogical arguments.

I hope I can clarify my last post by making a correction. Please REPLACE the words &quot;right wing propaganda&quot; with the words &quot;talk like a bunch of drunk, gun-toting rednecks.&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well, nothing there either, I must have not read your posts right? #Oh wait, I must be reading selectively...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I think the topic is still inappropriate and offensive. Now I think it's scary too. I have concerns about what is written here because as we all know that there are young hams, new hams and potential hams viewing these forums. To read topics such as these would give them the wrong idea about what ham radio is about. There are plenty of forums internet-wide where you can discuss how you would like to decapitate the -whoever it is-. And you might want to research the whole story about Nick Berg, who was not in the armed forces.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Really? #This is just talk and opinions TOD... #And many of these young hams and potential hams who have access to the internet have (I'm sure) seen the beheading video and photos. #What's worse is these young hams or potential hams have seen enough violence on TV or in movies to make beheadings seem no different. #

TOD you make it sound like these murders are insignificant. #What's more important?

[K0RGR]

I wouldn't mind the topic if we confined the discussion to the topic at hand, instead of using it to attack each other.

Why is AQ now resorting to high profile murders? Because it gets attention, that's why. Their avowed goal is to get us, that's U.S., into a religious war against all Muslims, a war they expect to win. They're murdering citizens of our allies in order to divide and conquer.

We're in a very sticky situation with Saudi Arabia. If, indeed, the initial reports that people in the Saudi government assisted these killers proves to be true, then what action do we take? Sending U.S. troops in to clean out Riyadh would likely start the religious war we want to avoid.

I believe that first of all, we've got to uphold our own principles, regardless of the cost. Yes, I feel badly for the families of the murdered. It would be so easy, and feel so good to take some kind of truly horrific retaliation for these abominations, but we must not. We must do unto others as we want them to do unto us.

We need to live the words that President Bush pledged after 9/11 - we need to track down all terrorists, wherever they are, and either bring them to justice, or bring justice to them. I know that we currently have covert operations in over 30 countries that are aimed at doing this, and those operations need to be completed.

We do not need a modern 'crusade' here. Right, wrong, or otherwise, we've taken over Afghanistan and Iraq - we need to make both of those countries shining examples of Islamic democracy. Then will likely we see the Muslim world cast out its own demons. Muslims around the round have condemned these acts, and must be encouraged to continue doing so.

How long did it take to capture the SLA right here in America years ago? This is a much more difficult task.

[N8CPA]

TOD, this particular forum of an Amateur Radio website is about anything that affects all of us. So the topic is apropros.

Tactically, AQ terrorists only see two kinds of people, targets and martyrs. The latter are anyone else who happens to die while they attempt to take out the former, whether sympathetic with the cause or not. That would include YOU and YOURS, simply because you live where you live and irrepsective of what you believe. And they don't worry about kill ratios when they attack. Talk about yayhoos!

If you don't believe that's the case, I suggest you visit www.doj.gov/aq/trainingmanual. It is a PDF translation of what was found by British law enforcemnt in the same apartment where ricin was found several months ago. I consider it documentary evidence that AQ terrorists are the progeny when jackals mate with swine.

And you can bet, that once they kidnap a western hostage, that hostage will die unless he/she escapes. And since terrorism is as much about vicariously tormenting hostages' survivors and family members as it is about killing, I think western media should simply quit showing the video tapes released to Al-Jazeera. There should also be a moratorium on showing stateside families pleading for the life of hostages, to deprive the terrorists of their forum. Publication of such pleas only positively reinforces terrorist activity and flatters their primitive egos.

[kg4kww]

This Just Came Across The News

<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>S. Korean hostage beheaded
Seoul says it will evacuate all its citizens in Iraq by July</span></span>


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040621/040621_korean_hostage_hmed_4a.hmedium.jpg

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Arab satellite TV network Al-Jazeera reported Tuesday that a South Korean kidnapped in Iraq had been beheaded.
The network said it had received a videotape indicating that 33-year-old Kim Sun-il had been executed.

The kidnappers had earlier extended their deadline for his execution, an intermediary said Tuesday. At the same time, the Seoul government said it would evacuate all its citizens working for businesses in Iraq by early July.

“This is humanitarian issue and we are working on it and we expect good news,” Ahmed al-Ghreiri, an employee of the NKTS security firm, which is acting as an intermediary, told The Associated Press.

Suspected al-Qaida-linked militants had threatened to kill Kim by early Tuesday if the South Korean government did not cancel its planned deployment of 3,000 troops to Iraq.

The militants dropped their demand that Seoul pull its troops out of Iraq, a security company president was quoted as saying Tuesday. The Joong Ang Ilbo newspaper's Web site quoted Choi Seung-gap as telling South Korean reporters the abductors had made other demands that were acceptable, but he declined to elaborate for fear of jeopardizing the negotiations.

&quot;It is highly likely we will see a resolution because in Iraq they have a good impression about South Korea,&quot; said Choi, president of the NKTS security company that provides bodyguards.

Why with all the high tech goodies the military, cia, mi5 and what other spy agencies are supposed to be working over in IRAQ, are these people being allowed to get away with this? Why are we not finding them?

Bush owes us some answers. #It appears that Bush is more interested in getting votes than finding hostages and their killers.

Trust Me, Harry Truman would have found the killers and destroyed them along time ago.

This is sad. And the sad part is these animals know they will never be caught because, Bush is more concerned about what the public thinks and getting re-elected to do anything about it.

I hope these scum bags are found and given a dose of their own.

[K6UEY]

KG4KWW,
WHY!! did you find it necessary to smear an otherwise perfectly good informational post with your illogical, biased, bigoted,uncalled for rhetoric ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why can't we find these people?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
IMHO - they were trained by the best, the CIA, who was trained by the best, the SS, who was trained by the best...

TOD - irrelevant. You say you don't read the posts and then you go ahead and POST things about the posts you say you didn't even read! (AMAZING!) :D No more to you. You won't read it anyway But you extract it and comment on it.. (DOUBLE AmAZING! ) BIG GRIN!

KWW. 'why can't we find 'em'.../

The answer is SIMPLE... 1)terrain and logistics.

The terrain they run and hide is very difficult to observe from the air and VERY difficult to control from the ground in some cases.

Other cases, they operate in the urban area where ratholes aer everywhere and sympathizers abound who will help them find ratholes to hide in.

LOGISTICS..

Tell me.. put 100 Arabs in a line. NOW.. PLEASE.. without any information as to appearance, etc.. YOU TELL me which one is the terrorist and which 99 are innocent?

Tell me HOW you are going identify a small group or an individual who can (and does) wear the same clothes, speak the same language, have the same culture and mannerisms as the locals WITHOUT some additional data.

You can't.

that is what makes terrorists over there so hard to catch and/or kill. They do their dasterdly deed and they scurry back into their ratholes and hide.

Sympathizers help them, hide them, feed them, clothe them and make alibis for them.

Absent any methods to 'force' them to talk via pscyhological methods or some kind of physical methods (short of real torture) you aren't going to have much success rooting them out.

It 'tain't as easy as you think', believe me. If it were, we'd have found the bastards and put a .22 or 9mm round right between the eyes already.

It takes 'boots onthe ground' hard, tough, 'grunt work' to do it and that' takes time.

If you think President Bush is 'more interested in votes' than getting these guys.. you are either blind to the reality OR you are unaware of the facts.

K3FT

It's NOT like James Bond, 'Man From Uncle', '24' or any of these shows/movies where the hi-tech stuff can ferret out the bad guys and make it all happen in an hour. UH UH.

[kg4kww]

K3FT -- Why can't we find the terrorists? Because, of their friends at CBS,CNN,NBC,ABC,MSNBC and FOX who are giving them all the intel they need to out smart us, all in the name of reporting the news. So, we keep the news people out of military actions, have the military clamp down on what is released, have Mr. Powell threaten to pull their licenses to broadcst (that's if he can take his eyes off of JJ's boobs), due to the fact they are helping the enemy, and watch this crap stop and terrorists get a dose of their own. And yes, Mr. Bush needs to put the screws to these people as well.

[ai4ep]

heck if you have watched more than just one news clip of those middle eastern folks you will see with only one eye open that ...

they all look alike

black hair

beard ( most of them ) { even some of the women }

no blondes, or red head s ....

heck they all look alike


turn the tv cameras OFF, they walk away

turn the tv cameras ON, they protest

just like USA in the vietnam war ? ( strange coincidence ) ---- also during the racial / civil disturbances.....hmmm who never notices that ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KB9YCO]

&quot;WHY!! did you find it necessary to smear an otherwise perfectly good informational post with your illogical, biased, bigoted,uncalled for rhetoric ?&quot; K6UEY

Ahhh yes, the old pot calling the kettle black scenario:

&quot;As for you speaking for the majority,your left wing Socialists crap will never be speaking on my behalf...&quot;
&quot;So we are not going to sit like a piece of milktoast and wait until we see the muzzle flash!!&quot;
&quot;...we have too many entry level NCT's who have no concept of Amateur Radio,yet they want to shoot off their mouth and change things to suit themselves.&quot;

Wow, that sounds oddly like partisan, one-sided, biased, bigoted rhetoric not based on any logic and containing no useful information. Once again OM you never fail to amuse and astound with your rampant hatred, hypocrisy and intolerance for anyone with a different view of the world; keep up the good work.

As for the original point of this topic, I must say once again, SHOCK VALUE! That's all it boils down to; they have no ther way to get to us except psychologically and what better way than instilling fear through video taped beheadings. This will not end anytime soon folks and regardless of whether you support some of our current administration's somewhat dubious decsions, that mostly likely made things worse or distracted from the cental part of the war on terrorism, you MUST SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and support the president's choices. He is after all the president, head of the military, and regardless of how much you may dislike him (November is not that far away folks, that's the best time to show your support or lack of) you have to at least support this country in a time of war. I'm not saying you should be a blind follower that never questions party rhetoric (there's certainly no shortage of these genuises around), I'm just asking you which side do you choose to support/believe/endorse.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif yes . I agree with what he said.

[K9STH]

Final warning:

Cut the personal attacks! The subject is one that is VERY emotional. BUT, everyone who has been commenting is presumably an adult. Therefore, I expect everyone to conduct themselves in an adult manner (and I don't mean as an &quot;adult&quot; in the &quot;adult&quot; Internet sites of which some of you have been conducting yourselves).

Otherwise I may have to shut this down which I do NOT want to have to do! A &quot;word to the wise is sufficient&quot;!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[N6WK]

Guys, Guys, Let's just make it Simple. They cut off the head of one of ours or our allies, then We just use a tactical Nuke and remove one of their Cities. Sure, The french and some other third World countries would complain but It would get the Job Done and we are the Big Kid on the Block! I would even Vote for Bush in NOV if he had the B@##s to do it.
Lets see 3 heads = Baghdad, Fallujah and Mosul. Eventually, We'd get em all!
One way to solve the problem. Also, all media should be banned. After all, it is WAR!!
Gordon
N6WK

The problem is, as it always is when dealing with guerilla warfare (which this is) is that identifying the guilty parties SPECIFICALLY is very very hard.

Just as the Germans had a problem identifying the French Resistance fighters due to the problem of separating the (to them) guilty from the innocent, so do WE have the same problem.

Without boots ont he ground.. intelligence sources INSIDE those groups, and help from folks who are 'inside' but will sell out for money or ideological reasons, you have a VERY VERY tough job locating them.

They don't use communications that much so eavesdropping doesn't buy you much. They are small numbers of folks in 'cells' which means that unless you KNOW who the cell members are you have tough time identifying them.

They use human couriers for messages and unless you know who the couriers are you are out of luck. Many times the couriers don't know WHO the originator is but only the message.

That's why low-tech methods of guerrilla warfare are so effective and SO HARD to infliltrate, gather intel about, and deal with.

However.. having said all that.. it IS possible to get the goods on them. But it takes TIME... skilled people.. patience.. and a willingness to exploit whatever you can to get the information.

THE BIG PROBLEM (for the USA) is that while the terrorists have TIME and OPPORTUNITY on their side.. the media and the bleeding hearts WON'T give the needed time and patience to OUR side. They want results 'NOW!' and reality be damned.

They won't let us use methods that may be slightly 'unsavory' to their gentle palates such as pscyhological interrogation methods because it upsets their dainty set of values BUT they yell at us if we 'miss' the boat on getting information because THEY raised such a stink that the policitians said NYET!.

That is the reality, folks. We have skilled professionals who CAN and DO the best they can given the hamstrung nature of much of what they are bound up with.

It will continue until the politicos decide (after public pressure) to 'let slip the dogs of war and do it right'. THEN you'll see things change - rapidly.

WAR is hell.. Hell is not pretty - which is why you wage it towin anddefeat the enemys ability to fight so you get it done adn restore some semblence of peace.