Ham Radio? NO!!!

[KD4LEI]

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it sir.

However, I am sorry to hear that you think this way.

[KG4CGC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ConcernedFather @ June 18 2004,06:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My two sons came to me recently and expressed an interest in Amateur Radio, so I promised I would do a bit of research and we would proceed from there. #At this point, I started my research and came across QRZ.com along with a few other 'notable' sites.

I've been reading here for a few weeks now, and I've decided that in NO way do I want my children exposed to some of you. #The bigotry, hatred, religious intolerance, and just plain hostile nature of a LOT of you is something I do NOT want my children involved with.

Some of you have resorted to calling children names because they simply turn the tables on some of your opinions? #I've seen MANY of you spout the SAME rhetoric as that 15 year old did, but I guess children are easy to attack. #Shame, being a public forum and all. #What ever happened to being MATURE and agreeing to disagree?

A portion of you people whine and moan about the impending death of your hobby, well congratulate yourselves, because it is YOUR fault things have stagnated like they have. #It is YOUR fault any parent with 2 cents will forbid his child to become involved with this 'hobby'.

We had a meeting with the school board on Tuesday, where I expressed my concerns and passed out copies of threads from the forum here. #It's amazing how many parents had heard of this 'service' and held many of the same concerns I had.

I'm sure the majority of you do not care, I'm simply writing this for the minority of you who appear to be good people, with open minds and the ability to keep their composure in a public forum where ANYONE can observe their actions.

As I said early on, I've been reviewing several of the 'notable' sites, and while they ALL share the same negative characteristics, this is by FAR the worst. #The information shared here IS wonderful, and it's incredible to see such esoteric information posted within moments of a question, but again, sadly the negatives outweigh the positives.

In all fairness, the decision to not allow my sons to participate was also based on actual, on-air listening with a short-wave radio I purchased from eBay. #If QRZ.com and other sites already had me feeling a bit apprehensive, HEARING so many of you made the decision final.

The swearing, condemnation of others due to all things political, religious, sexual persuasion, skin colour, the preaching, the long discourses on what IS or is NOT proper. #If such discussions were held in a civilized manner, with a minimum of foul language it wouldn't be such an issue. #What I take issue with is the METHOD of presenting your arguments. #(Though, in reality one could not call them 'arguments'.)

I don't care about your views on these topics, what I care about is HOW they're discussed and the terms used to present them. #You can't honestly tell me 'gay' and 'faggot' mean the same thing, just as you can't tell me 'black' and '######' mean the same thing. #One is used as a descriptor and the other is used as a weapon. #Continuing the example, guess which term (from both examples) I heard most often?

I can't believe the government condones, and even subsidizes the allocation of airwaves for this mess to continue! #I can't believe so many people would WANT to be identified with such a group, and even attempt to 'recruit' others into their ranks.

MANY of you are living in your own little bubble, completely unaware of what's going on in the world around you. #Here's a clue. #'The average person has NO idea what Amateur Radio even IS, much less what it does.' #Do you know what happens when someone Googles 'Amateur Radio'? #QRZ.com is the NUMBER THREE result. #Think about what that means. #I'll help. #It means that YOU people are the first impression of MANY possible newcomers to your 'hobby'. #YOU are the representatives of YOUR peers. #YOU are responsible for your image. #Not eHam, not Hamradioforum, NOT Hamsexy. #YOU are the FIRST public forum returned, so think about the implications of that.

YOU are the ones responsible for the death of your beloved Ham Radio, YOU are the ones who shoulder the burden of keeping it alive as well. #Andrew Vachss had it right when he remarked that the neo-nazi groups and white-right groups always had the shortwave bands to use.

Congratulations.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sir,
This is a cross section of society as a whole. It not only exsists on Amateur radio but everywhere. Sad but true. The people of today are this way you will find good and bad in all circumstances. I dare say, even in your own backyard.
Your observations may be a little one sided in my own opinion and this being a &quot;talk and opinions&quot; forum, you are entitled to believe as you wish.
I appreciate your observations although I must say, it is nothing new.
Thank You for posting,
73, KG4CGC, Charles Chackal

[KD4LEI]

Sir, I find it odd that you would also post your comments on the most varied topic section on here.

What is also strange is that you brought up other sites such as eham &amp; hamsexy, but vent your frustrations out on this site and this topic board.

Something about your post I find a little hard to show empathy about.

I, too, find it VERY VERY strange that you would post HERE and would NOT seek to even discuss the issue.

The tone, tenor, and adamacy of your comments leads me to suspect you are either

1 - 'A troll' masquerading as a 'concerned father' (this is the one I'm giving the most weight to, absent any further information to the contrary)

2 - Unwilling to even entertain any communications with ham operators to see if your 'opinions' were based on REALITY or just your perception of what you happened to read here on QRZ.

3) A bit unwilling to look at the OTHER threads on QRZ.COM where you will see.. most assuredly... that MANY Of the folks who post HERE (and who have decidely strong views about things) ALSO post there with information, help, and guidance.

But.. go about your business as you see fit. However, you SHOULD know that you are cutting your sons out of something (without having ALL the information you need to make such a decision) which will provide them with a lot of benefits and fun.

So , if you are NOT a troll.. perhaps you might be willing to engage in a REASONED discussion wtih us as to the whys and wherefores of ham radio.

But.. until I learn differently, I'm inclined to think my #1 item is a valid hypothesis of understanding.

K3FT

[KC7ATO]

Aside from all the negatives you posted what really &quot;bugs&quot; you about Amateur Radio thats any different from any other organization. A certain % of nutcakes are found in any assembly larger than one person. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K6BBC]

Is it just me, or does anyone else smell a rat? The poster seemed a bit too well versed. hummm.

K6BBC.. I may be hearing things.. but I think.. I hear something..

'rustle.. rustle.. SQUEAK! SQUEAK!'

yep. you were right.. there it is ..right under the corner of the PC on the floor, scurrying about!

Good call!

:D

K3FT

[K8YS]

Ode d' TROLL

[AG3Y]

ConcerenedFather:

Your topic says it all, just as I have said so many times myself;

QRZ.COM IS NOT HAM RADIO! It is an internet forum, and just like so many other internet forums, it is a place where some people believe they can vent their thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc. with a minimum of interference from others.

Glen does an amazingly good job of keeping things under control, and we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude for keeping things as civil as they are, considering the great variety of people and the depth of the feelings that are present here.

If you want to see some really wild and unruly forums, look at some of the unmoderated ones readily available on the net and see what goes on there! Your eyes will glaze over, and I dare say that your children can probably point them out to you, ( although I can easily imagine that they would never choose to do so ! )

I will say it again, QRZ.COM is NOT HAM RADIO ! And a few rotten apples in the barrel that represents the activity on the air do not represent the entire ham community, either.

75 meter SSB for one example, is just a small portion of what is available in this wonderful, varied hobby.

I am a &quot;digital fanatic&quot; , and I will swear to you that I have never had an argument about Code/NOCode, the &quot;dumbing down&quot; of the ham exams, a person's class of license, or any other of that sort of garbage.

BTW, if you care to look at the &quot;Questions and Answers&quot; portion of this forum, you will find some of the finest, most knowledgable talents in the electronics field, more than willing to share their wealth of information with the &quot;newbie&quot; . Yes, they will even tell a new Extra how to build a dipole !

Try to have an open mind about what you see and hear on the internet and over the air. Remember, a different web page is available with a click of the mouse key, and a different QSO can be heard by giving that VFO dial a little twist. That is why they are there !

73 from Jim AG3Y

[kc7jty]

Dear &quot;concerned father&quot;:
If you are for real, which I think is a long shot, you can thank your lucky stars that you don't live in the America of the past where PC didn't exist. Hold your breath for a while, for the America you seem to want will be short in coming. You will make a good thought policeman there.
Do you supervise your kids internet time?

[wg7x]

Really, I'm suprised that so many of you are wasting time responding to what is an ovbious troll...

Wait... I guess I responded also.... Darnit!

Sincerly, es 73 all.

Gary, WG7X

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wg7x @ June 18 2004,11:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Really, I'm suprised that so many of you are wasting time responding to what is an ovbious troll...

Wait... I guess I responded also.... Darnit!

Sincerly, es 73 all.

Gary, WG7X[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh, no!.......I heard about people like him....they DO exist.

[w6ez]

Cool!

No better way to make the kids want something than to have the old man tell them they can't have it.

I can see it now, the two kids will be buying dog eared copies of QST and CQ from the black leather jacketed older kid with the spiked hair and a nose ring that they have to meet in the parking lot behind the gas station. &quot;Sure kid, I can get ya a QST. But remember, the first one's free, after that it will cost ya!&quot;

[K3UD]

Ok here is the results of the judging on wheather or not this is a troll.

Judge 1 - 8
Judge 2 - 10
Judge 3 - 6
Judge 4 - 8
Judge 5 - 3


However, My Trollometer says:

T1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 +10 +20 +30
//////////////////////////////////////////////

Seriously,

While this looks like a cut and past job from various posts which have included the same references used in his post, it is just possible that it might be legit. In 1963 I asked my father about ham radio after listening to hams on 75 and 40 phone while using his old Hammarlund Comet Pro receiver. I guess this person's kids could have heard about it in a movie (Frequency has been running a lot lately) or maybe read about it in a book. Highlights For Children sometimes has stories that include ham radio. One can never be too careful I guess.

BTW Saturday is Kids Day on the radio.

73
George
K3UD

[n3mvf]

What he discribed sounded like the parents at local Little Leagues games too.

73
Greg

[K6BBC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3mvf @ June 18 2004,12:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What he discribed sounded like the parents at local Little Leagues games too.

73
Greg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Greg, sorry to disagree, little league is much worse. And AYSO – oh boy. I’ll take 80 meters any day.

K6BBC

[ky5u]

Dear Concerned Father,

We appreciate your concern and what you are trying to do albeit transparent.

[K6UEY]

&quot;Can't we all just get along&quot;

Where is Rodney King when you need him most? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KA9VQF]

I didn't know SY had kids

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;Can't we all just get along&quot;

Where is Rodney King when you need him most? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Looking at his arrest record, I'm unsure if he could help.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingarrests.html

[w5klb]

Concerned Father (I too have my doubts):

Why oh why would you want your children to be restricted from learning something? If they show an interest in electronics and communications then hams are the people to ask. And guess what? ITS FREE. #Hams KNOW this stuff. I can understand how you must feel, but the internet is NOT, I repeat, is NOT Amateur Radio. And your children can build on this foundation of knoledge to do GREAT THINGS in communications. They can also be a VITAL SERVICE to their community in the Amateur Radio Emergancy Service (ARES) and RACES. It will teach them to become LAW ABIDING citizens and to contribute to the community in which they live.

Some other things to remember: As it has been posted before, this is the internet. Hams are a very diverse group of people who are interested in the world around them. Yep, we all got opinions and we all know what opinions are like. But this isn't Amateur Radio and there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. I may disagree with some, but being only a technican class operator, I bet that I could go to ANY of these guys or gals, ask a question concerning this service and they would be more than happy to help or at least point me in the right direction.That's just the way they are. Really, really nice KNOWLEGABLE PEOPLE.

I'm 47 years old and my only regret is that I wish I had started this MUCH earlier in life.

[KB9YCO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ June 18 2004,13:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The tone, tenor, and adamacy of your comments leads me to suspect you are...
1 - 'A troll' masquerading as a 'concerned father' (this is the one I'm giving the most weight to, absent any further information to the contrary)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
May I please vote for number one? Thank you sir...

[w5lda]

SY cant have kids..he don't have the right equipment

Larry kd5vsg

[KG6OPR]

I wonder what dear old &quot;Dad&quot; will be getting for Fathers Day? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6OPR @ June 18 2004,14:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder what dear old &quot;Dad&quot; will be getting for Fathers Day? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A code practice oscillator?

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AG3Y @ June 18 2004,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ConcerenedFather:

Your topic says it all, just as I have said so many times myself;

QRZ.COM IS NOT HAM RADIO! It is an internet forum, and just like so many other internet forums, it is a place where some people believe they can vent their thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc. with a minimum of interference from others.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'd say you, sir, are very misguided. Somehow, and I'm not sure anyone knows how, you managed to confuse QRZ.COM with ham radio. You would do much better to (a) get a real radio, and listen to the ham bands before you form any opinion, and (b) be darned sure your kids don't get on the internet. The mere fact that you are here at all belies what you are saying. I certainly hope you do not let your kids read anything on any forum on the internet, and equally importantly, they don't read what you posted, for that was entirely without any foundation or investigation at all. You didn't hear ham radio; you read the internet forum.

Since you have, though, decided ham radio, which you have not listened to, is 'bad' perhaps it is best after all that you do not participate in it, nor allow your children to.

You are not alone, unfortunately, in thinking this is ham radio. There are quite a few who visit this and other web sites and think they are 'doing ham radio.' You cannot learn from them, of course, and obviously they cannot learn from you.

Sorry you didn't get a chance - and perhaps sorrier that your kids didn't get a chance - to hear ham radio, based on your mistaken belief you 'read it here.' But they'll find other hobbies. Good luck with them

Ed

[wd5kca]

You guys are so easy to troll.

[WA5KRP]

ConcernedFather...............................1

QRZ.COM posters................................0







http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/0703/LetsgetDVS/FISHING/scan0001.jpg

C'mon guys. #You know better.



WA5KRP
Texas

[KG6OPR]

I got it, the youngsters are in to #raising worms or cicadas as hobby. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[W7WV]

Yes, we are a cross section of the world.
And if your precious children can't take the world, well you raised them wrong and I pity not only you, but them.

[ka8jhm]

By the array of negative junk posted by this concerned father, which I seriously doubt he is, I would venture a guess that he is more than likely one of the pissed off truck drivers that found he cannot use all the channels that came with his illegal radio.
Bob tbtm

[kj5t]

I will speak from experience on this one, because I am a young ham myself at the age of 16. I have been a ham for three years now, and I have worked a lot of 2 meter repeaters, and even some 2 meter simplex. I have learned a lot from hams, not just about communications and electronics, but about weather, and computers, and other things that we discuss in QSO's.

Sure hams will dicuss religion, and they will discuss politics, from time to time I hear some OM's on bashing this guy or another, and 80 meters is not the place for anybody to hang out. Going through LA last summer I heard a group on a local repeater say some things that shocked me..

Yet there are millions of hams world wide, and so the percentage of &quot;bad&quot; people on the radio is really slim. Also if you are tuning a band and you hear some hams chatting about religion or politics, or hear them bashing the president or ex president or some other big wig.. you have a VFO change the frequency.

I would love it if your kids got into ham radio, I think they would enjoy it. We need more youth hams.. don't worry about what goes on, your kids see much worse on the internet..

like others have said this is an online forum, not ham radio, the bands are not like this.. and also as others mentioned this forum is not as bad as many of the other online forums..

+Steve/KD5OWO

[KG6OPR]

Aw, let the old dad play on the Freeway like my folks used to tell me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WF7I]

I agree, this post is from a troll.

But even if this post was legit, the logic is way off.

-- Young people surf the net and go to many forums, most of which are un-moderated and FULL of beligerance and trolls and threats and the rest of it. QRZ.com is very, very mild in comparison and most young people will not be fazed.

-- QRZ.com is not representative of what you would typically encounter on the air. Most hams are courteous. Yes there are &quot;the others&quot;, but guess what, that's real life too!

-- Pick any hobby, and I'd bet there is a forum somewhere on the net full of bickering and discontent. Again, just part of life, especially on the net.

[K0RGR]

All I will say is: thanks, Glen for trying to keep us presentable. Keep up the good work.

[K6BBC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5OWO @ June 18 2004,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will speak from experience on this one, because I am a young ham myself at the age of 16. #I have been a ham for three years now, and I have worked a lot of 2 meter repeaters, and even some 2 meter simplex. #I have learned a lot from hams, not just about communications and electronics, but about weather, and computers, and other things that we discuss in QSO's. #

Sure hams will dicuss religion, and they will discuss politics, from time to time I hear some OM's on bashing this guy or another, and 80 meters is not the place for anybody to hang out. #Going through LA last summer I heard a group on a local repeater say some things that shocked me..

Yet there are millions of hams world wide, and so the percentage of &quot;bad&quot; people on the radio is really slim. #Also if you are tuning a band and you hear some hams chatting about religion or politics, or hear them bashing the president or ex president or some other big wig.. you have a VFO change the frequency. #

I would love it if your kids got into ham radio, I think they would enjoy it. #We need more youth hams.. #don't worry about what goes on, your kids see much worse on the internet.. #

like others have said this is an online forum, not ham radio, the bands are not like this.. and also as others mentioned this forum is not as bad as many of the other online forums..

+Steve/KD5OWO[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey, this guy writes in coherent sentences. He can’t possibly be that proficient in English at the age of 16. Must be a troll

K6BBC

[W3MIV]

I can't believe so many folks have swallowed this fly!

[kj5t]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 18 2004,17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5OWO @ June 18 2004,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will speak from experience on this one, because I am a young ham myself at the age of 16. #I have been a ham for three years now, and I have worked a lot of 2 meter repeaters, and even some 2 meter simplex. #I have learned a lot from hams, not just about communications and electronics, but about weather, and computers, and other things that we discuss in QSO's. #

Sure hams will dicuss religion, and they will discuss politics, from time to time I hear some OM's on bashing this guy or another, and 80 meters is not the place for anybody to hang out. #Going through LA last summer I heard a group on a local repeater say some things that shocked me..

Yet there are millions of hams world wide, and so the percentage of &quot;bad&quot; people on the radio is really slim. #Also if you are tuning a band and you hear some hams chatting about religion or politics, or hear them bashing the president or ex president or some other big wig.. you have a VFO change the frequency. #

I would love it if your kids got into ham radio, I think they would enjoy it. #We need more youth hams.. #don't worry about what goes on, your kids see much worse on the internet.. #

like others have said this is an online forum, not ham radio, the bands are not like this.. and also as others mentioned this forum is not as bad as many of the other online forums..

+Steve/KD5OWO[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey, this guy writes in coherent sentences. #He can’t possibly be that proficient in English at the age of 16. #Must be a troll

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My message board grammer is indeed the worse they come, but why do you people call everyone a troll? You must be joking. What did a write that made me sound like a troll? If someone posts somting that you disagree with that makes them a troll?

I mean dispite the fact that I am not an english master, I am not a troll. My thoughts expressed were my true thoughts, I did not put them to cause a flame war or anything else, but the aid in the direction this topic was going.

73
+Steve/KD5OWO

[w6ez]

I think you were being complimented for your being able to get your point across.

It was a bit tounge in cheek, but you should take it as a compliment.

When I read your remarks I certianly didn't think you were a troll and I don't think the person who made the remark did either.

[K9TOD]

This has to be a troll, but if not, qrz forums are discussions of everything we can't say on the air. Prohibiting your son from using these forums is highly recommended as I feel, for the most part, they are a waste of time. Prohibiting your son from getting involved with an exciting and wholesome hobby is not recommended. He might start using drugs and hanging out with the wrong crowd. But I'm not going to tell you how to be a father.

I must admit I have heard the &quot;N&quot; word used on a repeater while passing through charlotte, NC, but aside from that such discussions would be immediately silenced by repeater cops in most cities. Sheltering your son from displays of hatred isn't going to do much good, I'm afraid. Perhaps getting a good helping of it now and then would be a good reminder of what disgusting behavior is.

I think you said your son is 15. If you are still telling your son at 15 what hobbies he can and can't have, you've got some issues to work out.

[w4rot]

w6ez,
Loved the bootleg QST post. That is the way it works.
I have a very cool father..
Love ya pop...
Oh yeah Happy Father's Day.
Raised by a ConcernedFather, but with freedom.
w4rot

[K6BBC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5OWO @ June 18 2004,19:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 18 2004,17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5OWO @ June 18 2004,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will speak from experience on this one, because I am a young ham myself at the age of 16. #I have been a ham for three years now, and I have worked a lot of 2 meter repeaters, and even some 2 meter simplex. #I have learned a lot from hams, not just about communications and electronics, but about weather, and computers, and other things that we discuss in QSO's. #

Sure hams will dicuss religion, and they will discuss politics, from time to time I hear some OM's on bashing this guy or another, and 80 meters is not the place for anybody to hang out. #Going through LA last summer I heard a group on a local repeater say some things that shocked me..

Yet there are millions of hams world wide, and so the percentage of &quot;bad&quot; people on the radio is really slim. #Also if you are tuning a band and you hear some hams chatting about religion or politics, or hear them bashing the president or ex president or some other big wig.. you have a VFO change the frequency. #

I would love it if your kids got into ham radio, I think they would enjoy it. #We need more youth hams.. #don't worry about what goes on, your kids see much worse on the internet.. #

like others have said this is an online forum, not ham radio, the bands are not like this.. and also as others mentioned this forum is not as bad as many of the other online forums..

+Steve/KD5OWO[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey, this guy writes in coherent sentences. #He can’t possibly be that proficient in English at the age of 16. #Must be a troll

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My message board grammer is indeed the worse they come, but why do you people call everyone a troll? #You must be joking. #What did a write that made me sound like a troll? #If someone posts somting that you disagree with that makes them a troll? #

I mean dispite the fact that I am not an english master, I am not a troll. #My thoughts expressed were my true thoughts, I did not put them to cause a flame war or anything else, but the aid in the direction this topic was going.

73
+Steve/KD5OWO[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes Steve, it was a joke. Jeez.

The kid sounds like a smart lad.

[KF0RT]

OWO - K6BBC was just having fun. The underlying humor is that you sometimes can't tell who is a troll and who isn't. You're cool; carry on.

As for ConcernedFather... tough call. My immediate take (giving the benefit of troll doubt) is that if he doesn't want his sons exposed to differing views, he should help them get their ham tickets and cut them off the Internet connection. The FCC does govern the airwaves, but does NOT govern the Internet. Ipso facto, the Internet is probably not the best place to learn about what actually transpires on the ham bands. The stuff that transpires on qrz.com &quot;ain't so bad&quot; and there is no jurisdiction for it. This is the Internet, after all.

I'm a born again ham. Screw the religious / political stuff. I was very active in the 1970's. Passed my first FCC test in 1969 at the ripe old age of 13. I cannot begin to tell how much my involvement with ham radio has influenced my life in a positive way. I met my wife at a ham club picnic in 1976 (happily married for over 25 years), and owe my career to early involvement with amateur radio.

But, I've been mostly inactive for almost 20 years. Two months ago, I decided to get back in the game. Ham radio, you see, is the hobby that sticks to the roof of your mouth. You can't get in without a lot of work, and once you've done the work, it never leaves you. Even during those 20 years of inactivity, I always had a 2 meter rig in the car (Is this really ham radio?).

I listen to 20 meters today, and it doesn't sound much different than when I last listened in 1978 or so. Yeah, a little bigotry on occassion, but it's rare.

My 2 cents: The hobby hasn't suffered a whole lot in the last 25 years. Good folk for the most part. And, Mr. ConcernedFather, do you believe you're doing your kids a favor by shielding them from the world?

-KF0RT (ex-WB0AMJ)

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w4rot @ June 17 2004,21:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">w6ez,
Loved the bootleg QST post. That is the way it works.
I have a very cool father..
Love ya pop...
Oh yeah Happy Father's Day.
Raised by a ConcernedFather, but with freedom.
w4rot[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thank you.

I remembered how I used to hide my motorcycle over at a friend's house for a few months until my Dad saw me ripping down the road.

[KG4CGC]

The ball is in your court ConcernedFather.
This is page 5. What say you?

KG4CGC, Charles Chackal

[N0PU]

You know...
This is so sad...

Yeah, as Hams, we quibble amongst ourselves and we beat up on one another and some of us go a bit overboard once in awhile [THAT's why we have Glen!] but ya know as a whole we are a decent bunch of people each approaching Amateur Radio from the point of view that we feel is right...

There is no right or wrong in anyone's approach to Ham Radio... It is whatever you get out of it and you get out of it what you put into it...

Same with any endevour...

This father is trying to raise his family the best he knows how and, IMHO, he is being wrong headed, but that is his right... He is trying to protect his family... At least he cares enough to look into something his kids are doing, some parents don't even do that much...

I suspect his kids won't be the kind that run into your ankles with a cart in the grocery store... and THAT has to be worth a couple points...

[kd5dhr]

You can probably figure out who started the original post just by noticing who has been absent from comment thus far. I have had a suspicion of who made the original post since it first appeared. I read these things alot, like probably most of the rest of you. the post seems a little familiar in the content and the way it reads.

[w5lda]

In my opinion,if this parent wanted to really protect his children,he would really need to consider home schooling his kids as everyone knows what goes on in the public school system.I would gaurantee those kids have seen ,heard and learned more bad goings on at school
than they would ever see on here or what they would hear on any band.But i am with the majority,I think he is just a troll

Larry kd5vsg

[KG6OPR]

Homer Simpson, Baaaaaart! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KG4WRA]

I couldn't agree with you more sir, some of the talk that goes on in this forum is simply innapropriate. However, I assure you that the airwaves, especially down here in the south, are a clean atmosphere to operate under. Ontop of that, ham radio offers countless volunteer emergency service operations, which have greatly benifited todays society.

Of course it is your call as the father, but I still strongly encourage them to get involved in amateur radio. Keep them away from this site, no harm will come from that. I gurantee you that you wont hear any innapropriate talk on the radio, cussing etc. If you do, take the callsign down of the operator and get his license revoked in the snap of a finger. This forum displays nothing of what goes on within the airwaves.

With respect,
kg4wra

Concerned father,

I too agree that you have the right to voice your opinion. #However, on the other hand, I have the right to disagree with your opinion about ham radio.

I do agree that there are some bad apples in ham radio just as others have pointed out. However, that doesn't mean that everyone in ham radio is bad. I also agree that qrz.com is NOT ham radio. #It's an open &quot;INTERNET&quot; forum and that's all it is. # #

To label ham radio entirely as being bad for your children because of a few stations you heard on your shortwave set is a onesided view that holds no merit. How long have you listened to ham radio conversations, 10 minutes, 1 hour, a week? #Somehow I believe it was more like a few minutes then you made you decision, based on your post.

Did you throw your television set in the trash because of the ridiculous reality TV and sitcom shows being shown on television today for fear your children will see them? #

Ham radio is no different than life on the street, there are some bad people and there are some good ones. #I can honestly say, having been a ham radio operator for over 35 years, there are more good people than bad. #

Is the school your children are attending free of hatred and racism so your children do not come in contact with it? #If you or your children hear foul language or disruptive people on the air then you or your children have the choice to change frequency just as you and your children have the choice to change the television channel. #It's your choice to listen or watch it or not.

In closing, ham radio will no more harm you children than the real world they live in. #Ham radio will teach your children patience, electricity, electronics, different cultures and give them a chance to make some terrific friends around the world. #These are things that will help them in life plus advance their education instantly. #Consider discussing the culture differences between americans and germans, live, on the air, for example. #How is that harmful to your children? #How is learning to speak a different language such as Spanish, first hand with a national from a different country, harmful to your children? #I wonder if you thought about ham radio; it keeps your children away from the drug dealers, they're not hanging around the malls, getting into trouble with the police. #How is that harmful to your children? #Sir, it can bring you and your children closer together so they, your children, can share their experiences with you, their father. #How is that harmful to your children and YOU? #Think about it sir, how wonderful your children would feel coming to you saying &quot;Dad, I worked Russia and Switzerland today on QRP isn't that wonderful?&quot; #How about it Dad, wouldn't that be fantastic instead of answering the door seeing a policeman standing there with your child in handcuffs for dealing in drugs? #From what I read in your post you are a father who cares about his children. #To that sir, my hats off to you and I respect you for that. #It's a shame there aren't more fathers taking an active interest in their children. #However, don't turn a blind eye on ham radio simply because you heard a few bad apples on the air. #

Michael
WB8TNJ
# http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KG4CGC]

A troll indeed and a cowardly one at that http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Put up your real name or callsign. You just put up one post, spout off your mouth and giggle in your seat as you read the replies. A poor poor way to make a point.
I do not believe you are as concerned as you would have us think.
I too see a pattern here as others have pointed out. I hope you enjoyed your indulgence in negative egotism.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KD5KUF]

Sheltering your kids from things that won't kill them or cripple them for life makes for kids so bored they get into drugs as soon as they can, looking for relief from shear dullness.

They have to rub elbows with real people in the real world in order to build up the ability to survive. I worry more about people that let their kids play football or ride dirtbikes (neck breaking &quot;sports&quot;) than kids that will hear some bad words on the radio.

My son is polite and talks at great length with and is well liked by his elders on the radio, but if some jerk gets on the air, he can hold his own. In real life too. When he was a freshman in high school he taught a few of the senior jocks to treat him with respect after bouncing them off the hall way walls. But he doesn't start it, just finishes it. Without being a sheltered wimp or a jerk himself. A nice well adjusted middle of the road ability to move in the adult world http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I guess I will open my mouth and insert foot.

Helloooooo. The last I checked, this is NOT ham radio. This IS a computer based internet forum about ham radio.

Your best bet would be to restrict your kids' exposure to the internet. They can come in here whether they are hams or not.

Shut the computer off, help your kids get their licenses and encourage them to become good hams...not forum/chatroom couch spuds.

Wish I had put some seasoning on my shoe......

[AB6ND]

Dear Concerned Father,
Congratulations, you have generated many replies to your posting, which I presume was your intent. You may not enjoy the general tone of contempt contained in the replies.
Personally I doubt if many other parents have any feelings one way or the other about Amateur Radio.
You sound as if you are one of the whiney individuals with a manufactured grievance who infest society nowadays.
If you really do have two sons they have my deepest sympathy and for their sake I hope you mature one day.
Roy Prince

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6ez @ June 18 2004,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;Can't we all just get along&quot;

Where is Rodney King when you need him most? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Looking at his arrest record, I'm unsure if he could help.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingarrests.html[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You'd better watch it.....you may be mistaken by the MAJORITY as a racist.

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ June 18 2004,14:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6ez @ June 18 2004,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;Can't we all just get along&quot;

Where is Rodney King when you need him most? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Looking at his arrest record, I'm unsure if he could help.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingarrests.html[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You'd better watch it.....you may be mistaken by the MAJORITY as a racist.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Racist? Nope.
I don't see why that should even be mentioned.

[KG4YUV]

First off, I'm glad to see that I have another young ham about my age, KD5OWO, in here with me. At that, another young ham about my age that types complete sentences, and uses correct English and grammar! (Thank you God) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Next, I notice the man, &quot;concernedfather&quot;, made a reference to my post yesterday in the 'code/no code' where a lot of people in here came back at me rudely for simply voicing my opinion of how code should stay. I sensed a hint of age discrimination when the man who says he's a veteran said I was a quote...

&quot;Smart azzed Kid&quot; with &quot;no respect for his elders&quot;

The he made a remark that went something like the following:

I was just 2 yrs older than you when I enlisted in the Army and I like you thought I had the world in my pocket Then a drill punched my lights out for having a smart azzed remark.

I assume by drill he meant drill sergeant...
I also take it that he was comparing the situation that if he had the opprotunity he would punch me. And for what? Voicing my opinion at my age??!! Hmmm......

Then he started calling me a punk.

First off to you sir, I'm NOT a punk. I HATE punks... I DESPISE them all with their painted hair and tatoo's up their back and peirced tongues and their rap music....

I AM NOT A PUNK.

Next, I RESPECT MY ELDERS. I am one of the most mature young people you can find. There's several people in this forum that'll back me up on that one...
I meant NO disrespect to you in that post. I RESPECT YOU as a veteran, I RESPECT you as a person.

However, I disagree with your opinion about CW. And for that, you rare back at me? Not to mention because of my age... I find that to be a little wrong...

SY once called me quick-witted, articulate, and funny. He, as well as 95% of the people in this forum, was on my side in many issues. I suppose you took my choice of words lightly....

And BTW Glen, sorry about my small vulgarity in the use of the phrase &quot;damned&quot;. I really don't consider that vulgar, but I was just a little steamed at the moment. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Most of the people (about 3) in here that I have &quot;beaten in a war of words&quot; can't stand me because I'm so young but quick witted with a large vocabulary... Odd running into me I guess.

Anyway, I noticed some people were only offended by me saying everyone was a &quot;fat OF&quot;... lol, I have a hard time believing everyone took that to heart the way the did... By 'OF' I don't mean it personally on anybody, that's just my slang of everyone. lol, I didn't mean it specifically word-for-word #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

And AI4EP, thanks for seeing my point of the post, as well as AE4FA, and K6UEY. Apparently some people in here just can't stand that there's young hams out there that can pass the code and yet be so literate... I don't know.

Anyway, no offense was meant towards anyone. Just wanted to clear that up.

But just a word to the ones that don't like me for my age:

You DON'T want to mess with me. I'm not your average obnoxious teenager...

My motto: I've only got a problem with you if you've got a problem with me.

73's to all...
Ciao!

(P.S. I'm half military (Air Force). Please don't say I have no discipline. Thank you.)

[w5zzq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ June 18 2004,11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I, too, find it VERY VERY strange that you would post HERE and would NOT seek to even discuss the issue.

The tone, tenor, and adamacy of your comments leads me to suspect you are either

1 - 'A troll' masquerading as a 'concerned father' (this is the one I'm giving the most weight to, absent any further information to the contrary)

2 - Unwilling to even entertain any communications with ham operators to see if your 'opinions' were based on REALITY or just your perception of what you happened to read here on QRZ.

3) A bit unwilling to look at the OTHER threads on QRZ.COM where you will see.. most assuredly... that MANY Of the folks who post HERE (and who have decidely strong views about things) #ALSO post there with information, help, and guidance.

But.. go about your business as you see fit. However, you SHOULD know that you are cutting your sons out of something (without having ALL the information you need to make such a decision) which will provide them with a lot of benefits and fun.

So , if you are NOT a troll.. perhaps you might be willing to engage in a REASONED discussion wtih us as to the whys and wherefores of ham radio.

But.. until I learn differently, I'm inclined to think my #1 item is a valid hypothesis of understanding.

K3FT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is totally off the wall......Sounds strange to me also...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4YUV @ June 19 2004,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[

I AM NOT A PUNK.



But just a word to the ones that don't like me for my age:

You DON'T want to mess with me. I'm not your average obnoxious teenager...

My motto: I've only got a problem with you if you've got a problem with me.

73's to all...
Ciao!

(P.S. I'm half military (Air Force). Please don't say I have no discipline. Thank you.)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i AM a mature adult. I am I Am I AM!!!!!!!
Double negatives! BAD

[KG4CGC]

CF,
This is page 7. What say you?

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;Then he started calling me a punk.

First off to you sir, I'm NOT a punk. I HATE punks... I DESPISE them all with their painted hair and tatoo's up their back and peirced tongues and their rap music....&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmm
Punk. No, not punk rocker. The punk that was being refered to goes back a bit futher than that. 50's prison slang.

Punk rockers listen to RAP?
wow. That's new too. I thought punk rockers listen to, well, PUNK. (And that is using today's use of 'punk' ) Although the real cutting edge 'punk' groups like the Ramones and the Sex Pistols are long gone, their music was certianly not rap. Are you sure your'e as young as you say?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You DON'T want to mess with me. I'm not your average obnoxious teenager...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I used to think the same thing when I was a pup. I figured that if I didn't know about it, it wasn't worth knowing. I also thought I was able to handle anyone that came along.
Funny thing was, there were people who were willing to wait in line (or so it seemed) just to show me how wrong I was about that! Now that I have a few teanagers of my own to heard through the big cattle chute of life and I see them doing the same things I did, I see why my old man used to tell me it would be a miracle if I survived.

You seem respectful, bright, educated and rational.
You write well also and make your ideas clear.
I'm sure you are an asset to Ham radio.

Just remember: Age, Deceit, Cunning, and Treachery can Defeat Youth and Skill ! (I wish I knew who said that.)

[K6UEY]

It is now fathers day and I'm sure that was the intent of this &quot;concerned father&quot; as others have pointed out he is no concerned father or he would never let his kids close to the internet.Ross Pero't brought it to the attention of the general public &quot;that great sucking sound&quot; he used it in another context but it is the same sound,this character some how gets his jolly's by the number he can suck into posting on this thread,he has done well so far.So kick this clown in the ass by honoring your father in an extra special way,after all you are part of him and he will be the &quot;ONLY ONE&quot; you will ever have. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0ebm]

OK....I'll bite. I admit, I'm a sucker for a troll. But whether you are a troll or not, I can take constructive criticism.

While it is true that this board is NOT ham radio, I see your point that we here on QRZ are the front lines of what represents ham radio, and we should be more mindful of that, and put forth a better image.

I am one of those on this board that speaks passionately about my political views, and also my religious views. And, as a rule, I am mature enough to agree to disagree without becoming disagreeable. But, I also must confess that I have reacted negatively on occassion when somebody pokes the wrong button. I will try to do better.

It is worth noting, that it is not a violation of any rule, expressed or implied, to discuss religion and politics on the air, or on this board. When conducted like gentlemen, those discussions are the most rewarding and educational subjects. Trouble is finding gentlemen these days. Again, your criticizm has merit.

Again, keep in mind that QRZ is NOT ham radio. I may need to change my ways here, but this is where I come to express views and opinions that I'd just as soon not articulate on the air. Not that I don't respect the editors of QRZ, its just that, at least on this forum, what is allowed here is not necessarilly appropriate for broadcast over the air. And many of the views expressed here, while not necessarilly appropriate for the air, are still legitimate public discourse. And all would agree that this forum is well monitored and everybody knows the rules and abides them. If not, they get the boot.

As for your observations of amateur transmissions, I wholeheartedly agree. Much of it is NOT fit to be transmitted, and much of that is even ILLEGAL. Like you, I have heard the word &quot;######&quot; used repeatedly on the air by a group of Texans on 3.918 early each morning. Those violations have been recorded and sent in for enforcement action.

I have heard and recorded death threats on the air. And enforcement action will be pending.

I have heard religious arguments, and while arguing about religion is not a violation per se, it sets a harmful example. I avoid religious and political discussions unless strict rules are agreed to beforehand. Once agreed upon and enforced, those rules normally result in the most enjoyable and fruitful discussions I've ever had on ham radio. Trouble is, many LIDS don't like anybody imposing any rules upon them, and that includes the FCC rules. So one must choose their debating partners carefully.

So, for the most part, even though you may well be a troll, I agree with your assessments and I take them seriously and I will be careful about the example I set and be mindful of the exposure that presents itself here on QRZ.

But, before I depart, I'd like to issue my own criticism. Not to you, concerned father, but to some of the other respondents to this thread. You see, concerned father, if you had levied these legitimate criticisms to CBers, every poster responding would have jumped right on your wagon in agreement. But instead, you criticized HAMS!!! You criticized hams on a ham forum. Consequently, the objectivity went right out the window and the first defensive response was to call YOU a troll. The next predictable response was to start enumerating all the other social influences in society that are far worse than the example set on ham radio, as though that somehow destroys any of your legitimate criticisms. That's the way these people always respond when somebody criticises them. So to ameliorate the criticism, they use the same adolescent tactic that your own teenage sons use when you criticise their childish behavior, and that is to point out examples that are far worse in order to minimize their own faults, or worse, to JUSTIFY their childish behavior. And it pains me greatly to say this, but, most of the people replying to your critical post just proves the validity of your assertions. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that either. Its as plain as the nose on Jim's face.

Another one of their childish tactics is to try to paint you as some kind of poor father. Its a personal attack in retalliation for putting down a shoe that fits most of these people. Just take their criticisms and childish insults as evidence that you have pitched a dead ringer.

Like you, I have often levied my own legitimate criticisms of amateurs. I've even suggested that, because of their bad behavior and failure to understand the purpose of amateur radio and to conduct themselves appropriately on the air, that they have brought upon themselves some very real challenges for their radio spectrum. And, like you, they have responded to me in similar fashion. Like the children they are, they can't take constructive criticism and change their behavior. Instead, they point out worse behavior and try to justify their own. They resort to personal attacks and name calling and make threats to my life. But its only because the shoe fits. And like you, I have pitched a dead ringer.

And while the cussing and dirty jokes continue, and the racial epithets and sexual innuendo continues, and the malicious interference and QRMing continues, my tape recorder continues. And if my tape recorder doesn't make a difference, maybe BPL will. But one way or the other, either substantial compliance will be acheived, or the service will be gone.

Until then, concerned father, I will continue to correct my errors in response to constructive criticism and try harder to set a good example, both here, and on the air.

Thanks for your post and 73

Tom Friess KCØEBM

[K6UEY]

TOM, do you have any idea when the Readers Digest Condensed version comes out. I read to the point you were getting all wimpy and encouraging the troll and had to quit. Maybe I'll just wait for the movie...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[w5lda]

Rick,,i admit that is funny as hell.But seriously folks,
we need to end this one as everyone probably has an idea that &quot;Concerned Father&quot; is just a troll and accomplished what he set out to do,and that is to just cause a problem and to start personal attacks on one another. kg4yuv,,lighten up &quot;kid&quot;. People here dont care if you are Hercules,that is why some of these guys don't care for your attitude with the &quot;YOU DON'T WANT TO MESS WITH ME &quot; crap.Leave that stuff on the schoolyard
where it belongs.

Larry kd5vsg

[K9STH]

OBN:

You need to take your own advice!

One more outburst like the one you just made and you are HISTORY!

No more warnings! I don't want to hear ANYTHING from you about this either in a thread, by message on this site, by E-Mail, or by any other means!

I don't care about your history, I don't care what you &quot;feel&quot;, I don't care about anything having to do with your personal life!

Again, ONE MORE OUTBURST or ONE MORE ATTEMPT TO GET AROUND MY RULINGS then you are HISTORY!

I have had it with you! I suggest that you take a very good look at yourself and then step back and take another look at yourself! Then, take stock of what you see and then decide if you still want to participate in the discussions here on QRZ.com. If you cannot control your outbursts, then I suggest that you voluntarily stay away. But, if you continue to post such things as you have been posting on this site you will be BANNED.

The choice is yours!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[WA2ZDY]

Ya know, I can't believe the original post has you guys so whacked out.

It's a troll. Fake. Not real and not worthy of a response.

[K8YS]

in some counties, &quot;concernedfather&quot; could be considered a child abuser.

[N0ZB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ConcernedFather @ June 18 2004,11:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In all fairness, the decision to not allow my sons to participate was also based on actual, on-air listening with a short-wave radio I purchased from eBay. #If QRZ.com and other sites already had me feeling a bit apprehensive, HEARING so many of you made the decision final.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
DISCLAIMER: #This is NOT a code vs. no-code post nor is it intented to start one. #It is NOT a troll. #It is meaning is to be construed only as the personal opinion of N0ZB. #I apologize for the following plagarism of Frank Zappa:

This post contains material which a truly free society would neither fear nor suppress. The opinion contained herein is GUARANTEED NOT TO CAUSE ETERNAL TORMENT IN THE PLACE WHERE THE GUY WITH THE HORNS AND THE POINTED STICK CONDUCTS HIS BUSINESS.

Dear Dad,

I'll tell you how to find a whole different world. #Sure, it takes a little effort but its well worth it if you would like to find considerate, well mannered operators.

Learn a little code and start listening to some slow CW QSOs. #Try any part of the CW bands, No-code tech, general, extra. #My bet is you'll meet some darn nice hams and most would be more than willing to help your boys learn more about radio.

You're already smarter than a lot of the hams that post here. #You've figured out the difference between radio and the internet!

Dave N0ZB

[N0ZB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6ez @ June 19 2004,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Punk rockers listen to RAP?
wow. That's new too. #I thought punk rockers listen to, well, PUNK. (And that is using today's use of 'punk' ) Although the real cutting edge 'punk' groups like the Ramones and the Sex Pistols are long gone, their music was certianly not rap. Are you sure your'e as young as you say?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey, ya know what Johnny Rotten says about todays young punks:

&quot;It's hard to be rebellious when you're listening to your father's music.&quot;

There's a whole thesis in that one sentence. HA

[KG4YUV]

N1OBN, you just don't get the image do ya? BE NICE!

Congratulations pal, you've just lost all respect from me.. Regardless of your age or disability status.

Remember my motto? I only have a problem with you if you have one with me-- well, that applies.

P.S. Thank you Glen, I appreciate it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ciao

(By the way to everybody else, when I said &quot;You DON'T want to mess with me...&quot; I was referring to I can win the war of words easily, all I've gotta do is ignore. And I'm glad the ratio of rude people to nice people in this forum is 1:150-- Thanks guys #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #)

If it eases the minds of so many of you to refer to me as a troll, than so be it. This IS an internet forum, and nothing I may do will convince you otherwise. I simply posted my opinions and observations.

If I had any reservations before I posted, upon reading the private messages of so many of you, I now have MANY more reservations. Honestly, I'm a bit scared at the thought of having my children's private, personal information publicly available to anyone who wishes to look it up.

As far as QRZ being the internet, and not ham radio, I understand and realize that fully. My children do not browse the web unsupervised, as many of you may know, there are many options available to limit the viewing capabilities of those in your care. Are there ways around such countermeasures? Of course there are, but I am responsible for what happens in my home to my family, and I take such responsibility seriously.

Those of you who have attacked either myself or my children should be ashamed. I home school my children, they are quite aware of what goes on in 'the real world', and I trust that they have such knowledge and preparation to deal with such when they come across any questionable activities. Drugs? I've no worries there. We've had discussions, and they both live such lifestyles it would be hard for me to imagine either of them taking leave of their senses long enough to experiment with anything like that.

Why did I post here and on none of the other site? Because, as I stated, for those of you who failed to read properly the first time, this is the number THREE return on a google query of 'Amateur Radio'. This is the number ONE forum returned on said query as well. This also seems to be the most active among all returned. Why did I post? I honestly wanted to see what the community response would be when questioned concerning the safety of this hobby for children. Yes, I understand there are many children happily involved with this activity, however, I could care less what OTHER parents allow their children to participate in. I am only concerned about my own. Also, why did I post in 'the most varied topic section here'? Simply because it's where I felt the topic belonged, 'Talk and Opinions'. If I misposted I apologize.

A very few of you offered helpful commentary on my concerns, and for this I thank you. The rest of you, (the majority I might add) offered nothing more than simpleminded sarcasm, vitriol and outright hostility. In short, NOTHING to ease my concerns on the matter.

I never said I was unwilling to discuss the matter, far from it, I rather viewed the opening of a discourse on the matter as the next step in my research before making a final decision. As things stand, ESPECIALLY after reading through my inbox and some of the comments here, I remain firm in my decision. Did I state that ALL of the members of your fraternity are substandard or otherwise anti-social? No. I simply stated my opinion that because of the prevalence of a certain type of sentiment I'd encountered both on the airwaves and in this forum (among others), I felt uncomfortable allowing my children to participate in this activity. Several of you have admitted to the fact that this sort of behavior goes on, and that while enforcement against such is possible, it still remains.

When my children are 18 or out of college, they are free to make their own decisions, and at that point, I can simply sit back comfortable in the knowledge that I have done my best to prepare them both mentally and physically for their lives. If, at that point they decide to pursue radio as a hobby, I will support their decisions wholeheartedly, as I will trust their judgement as adults as being sound.

An example for those of you who have accused me of being a sheltering tyrant. I ride motorcycles, quite avidly, to the point of track racing as often as possible. Of course, my children began showing an interest at an early age. A year or two before they were old enough to gain their license, I began teaching both the negative and positive aspects of motorcycling. We had trips to the races together, trips to local biking events, trips to the hospitals and physical therapy centers to illustrate the dangers of riding. They even had the joy (sarcasm) of seeing me high-side coming out of a corner during a competition. Upon reaching the age of decision, one decided he wanted to pursue riding, the other angled towards mountain biking on regular non-motorized bicycles. In short, given proper perspective, information and knowledge, I DO allow my children to make their own decisions when it comes to certain topics. HOWEVER, as a father, I remain the authority when it comes to allowing my children to place themselves in an unhealthy situation, which I still feel ham radio to be. I allow them quite a bit of leeway, however, there are still times I must put my foot down and say, 'I don't think this is a good group of people for you to associate with.'

No, I did not base my decision upon a few simple minutes of monitoring. The process took a few weeks, roughly the same amount of time I started monitoring the various message boards, local users and the shortwave stations from abroad. YES, there are many of you who seem like wonderful people, and I wouldn't hesitate in allowing my children to talk with and correspond with you. However, as in so many aspects of life today, the actions of a loud vocal few, destroy the enjoyment for many.

To close, I will of course occasionally be monitoring these forums, as I've found a plethora of information which has proven quite interesting, however, I ask that no one attack my children, either on this thread or in a private message again. If you TRULY wish to show yourselves as mature individuals I suggest you act as such. I've seen precious little of it thus far.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif so, did every one have a good FATHER s day ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N5RLR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ai4ep @ June 20 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:orange'>http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif so, did every one have a good #FATHER's day ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>Mine could have been better, given some developments of late [offline, that is].

I retract my previous post re trolling. #It has been deleted. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif</span>

'Concerned Father' Awww. please. Come now.

You post an opening series of comments that contain invective, negative commentary, and a raft of other items that are GUARANTEED to promote responses such as the ones you received and you are surprised??!!! by this??

Can you HONESTLY be seriously surprised? OBVIOUSLY your knowledge of ham radio is as MOST people is who have ZERO knowledge of ham radio. You check out ONE source..

You read INTERNET postings and you THINK it represents ham radio??

You DON'T even bother to come on as &quot;ASK&quot; a question BUT rather rail and flame about 'the evils of ham radio' after just reviewing QRZ.COM?

I KNOW you are a TROLL because RATIONAL, MATURE Adults who have a 'clue' DON'T base their opinion of a vast activity like ham radio on ONE SOURCE ONLY!

It would be the same thing as if I tape recorded your household conversatoins for one month, 24 hours a day, and then used YOUR family as the SOLE determinant for ALL families in the United States of America.

You would rightly claim that I was being unfair to families, unreasonable in my claims and invective AND doing a VERY VERY poor job of gathering evidence, data, and information about things.

ALSO.. how about I just extract and keep ONLY those things that YOUR family talks about that are 'negative and unpopular' as they relate to MY personal impressions and perceptions.

NOW I come back and rail against YOU for those things that I've selectively chosen to use.

Fair? Balanced? Honorable? Proper? Hmmmm.
YOu know.. your tactics have the familiar ring of things I've read/seen/heard before.

AHHH! I KNow.. It's on CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/BBC/60 Minutes/DATELINE, etc..etc.

THEY do the same thing. They take a sample somewhere and then extrapolate it to the ENTIRE universe of whatever they are trying to attack.

Your tactics are IDENTICAL to the crap being done to the U.S. Military by the media in Iraq as it relates to the prision scandal.

You pick ONE item.. dwell on it, focus on it.. extract ALL YOur data from it and THEN you come out and say.

ALL MILITARY JUSTICE SYSTEMS ARE CORRUPT! ALL MILITARY SYSTEMS ARE BAD!

YOU use the 'ALL HAM RADIO OPERATORS ARE BAD! ALL HAM RADIO OPERATORS ARE HATEFUL!' statements when you OVERLOOK the vast universe of GOOD things that are out there.

So, protest our responses all you want to, Concerned Father. Your initial post.. AND your response, continue to cause the 'TROLL METER' to rise to an incredible 5,000 dBW!

HOWEVER!
IF youare NOT a troll AND are serious I will offer you an option.

SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE WITH YOUR REAL EMAIL.

I will NOT reveal it here - that is MY word to you and you can take THAT to the bank.

I shall, do my best, as my 35 years of being a ham allow me.. to provide you with sourcing, information, data, material and hte like which will provide you with a TRUE and HONEST picture of ham radio.

IF YOU LIKE AND IF YOU ARE SERIOUS.

After that.. if you STILL think hams are the scum of hte earth.. well, that's fine. I tried.

But if not. then you continue to exhibit the markings of a Troll. I would LOVE you to prove me wrong. I really really would.

K3FT

[w5alt]

I'd like to see the statistics on how many children have been hurt on motorcycles vs. how many have been hurt on ham radio. But it's your choice of course.

It seems like you successfully stacked the deck to make your decision. If you went to a motorcycle forum and started telling the people there how terrible a percentage are and how it's too dangerous to expose kids to, I wonder what the response would have been.

Anyway, I wish you the best and hope that the day never comes that you have one of your kids seriously injured on a motorcycle. Because if it happens #you will probably spend the rest of your life wondering whether they may have been better off playing with radios than with motorcycles. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Best of luck and 73,

[K6UEY]

Well I guess to sum it all up,the International Community most likely will not even notice his kids are missing from Amateur Radio.If there is loss it looks as though it belongs to THEM!!

[w5lda]

Concernedfather,,it seems as your mind was made up before you even posted to not allow your precious children the enjoyment of ham radio. One question!
Why the hell did you even post it? I'll tell you. To make this topic what it has became.If you are so one-sided to believe the majority of hams are like you think they are
then to you sir,,Good riddance

Larry kd5vsg

this is the internet,,not ham radio!! nuff said!

[kg4kww]

GEE, DOES THIS MEAN HE'S ANTI CODE? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

N1OBN Give Me an Answer!!!

[WA9UAA]

Did anyone notice that in the first post &quot;concerned father&quot; made his concerns known at a school board meeting and now the kids are &quot;home schooled&quot;!

Rob WA9UAA

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA9UAA @ June 20 2004,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did anyone notice that in the first post &quot;concerned father&quot; made his concerns known at a school board meeting and now the kids are &quot;home schooled&quot;!

Rob WA9UAA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You know, I noticed that too. There are inconsistencies in his posting and counterposting.

But I guess I will be attacked for questioning him on that.

[N0PU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA9UAA @ June 20 2004,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did anyone notice that in the first post &quot;concerned father&quot; made his concerns known at a school board meeting and now the kids are &quot;home schooled&quot;!

Rob WA9UAA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was just about to comment on that one too...

Homeschoolers still have to deal with the school board for state testing and such... probably more than the average parent... All kinds of rules are stuffed down their throats...

It's a crying shame that all this person can do is find the negative in Ham Radio... I used to know a Ham in Tennessee who homeschooled his kids... They turned out fine... neither home schooling nor Ham Radio did much damage...

You get out of everything what you put into it... This they will get nothing from...

Whatever... I have e-mails from folks who WANT to learn about electronics and Ham Radio... think I'll go answer some...

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif If ( according to &quot; concerned parent &quot; ) AMATEUR radio is soooo BAAD; then why did he/she not just make his/her original post and never return ?

Why does he/she keep coming back...IF ( according to him / her { a parent is a her, also } ) amateurs are ALL so baaaaad ?

Does the conscience bother them ?

Are they curious ?

Are they just plain nosy ?

I know there are no simple answers to my questions, and you may ramble for a page or two before you give a half - way answer to the above questions, since we already know that a straightforeward simple easy to understand answer is beyone YOUR abilities, based entirely on YOUR posts ( if it were ONLY one, it would be far simplier for YOU, but you just could not stay away...you HAD to return...see you told on your self !!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
hee hee hee http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

So feel free to contradict me and trivialize me to your lowest common denominator at your leisure...or...better yet, get the kids to type it FOR you. Possibly be fewer errors and faster answers, too.

My basic question is simple: If you are so upset , why did you return ?

[kc0ebm]

You people just don't get it. The man has levied legitimate constructive criticism, and all you can do is feed his fire.

The man's got a point, he stated it clearly and objectively in terms we've all heard before. So why all these nonsense defense tactics? Most of you sound less mature than the children he is protecting.

Trouble is, this man has just hit a bit too close to home, hasn't he boys? And what have you done? You've proven beyond a shadow of doubt that he's right, and you've done it all right here where everybody can see for themselves.

Its high damn time some of you people grow up!

This man's observations are legitimate and correct. He's on the outside looking in and his perceptions are correct and you all know it. So why not take the high road this time, HUH?

I can't believe this.

Tom Friess KCØEBM

[K9TOD]

You know what?
After reading and responding to this other topic (http://www.qrz.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=64730)

I've decided &quot;concerned father&quot; has every reason to be astonished.

[KG4CGC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ebm @ June 20 2004,17:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You people just don't get it. #The man has levied legitimate constructive criticism, and all you can do is feed his fire. #

The man's got a point, he stated it clearly and objectively in terms we've all heard before. #So why all these nonsense defense tactics? #Most of you sound less mature than the children he is protecting.

Trouble is, this man has just hit a bit too close to home, hasn't he boys? #And what have you done? #You've proven beyond a shadow of doubt that he's right, and you've done it all right here where everybody can see for themselves.

Its high damn time some of you people grow up! #

This man's observations are legitimate and correct. #He's on the outside looking in and his perceptions are correct and you all know it. #So why not take the high road this time, HUH?

I can't believe this.

Tom Friess KCØEBM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey Tom,
# # # # # # The man does have a point but he is certainly not objective. His mind is already made up and no amount of butt kissing on our part is going to change that. He came to QRZ to bitch us out and see how far he could stir the pot.
# # # # # # Charles C.
# # # # # # #KG4CGC

[K6BBC]

Kc’s don’t hurt people, kilowatts do.

And HOME SCHOOLING – OH BOY.

K6BBC

[K6BBC]

And speaking of Ham Radio. I just received my membership in the DX Century Club after 36 years on the air. Will someone please congratulate me?!!

K6BBC

[w5klb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 20 2004,23:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And speaking of Ham Radio. #I just received my membership in the DX Century Club after 36 years on the air. #Will someone please congratulate me?!!

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Consider yourself congradulated.

Congradulations! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K6UEY]

K6BBC,
CONGRTATULATIONS!!
I was just thinking this weekend I should send in an application and my 187 confirmed countries.I worked 213 Countries but looks like I'm not going to get the cards back so I should go ahead and apply for my DXCC,it's only been about 35 years so I can give up on the remaining cards.... # # # #73, # ORV # # #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Post Script: 99 % of the cards are for 10 meters,real fun band......

[kc0ebm]

QUOTE KG4CGC
Hey Tom,
# # # # # #The man does have a point but he is certainly not objective. His mind is already made up and no amount of butt kissing on our part is going to change that. He came to QRZ to bitch us out and see how far he could stir the pot.
# # # # # #Charles C.
# # # # # # KG4CGC
Close Quote

Charles!

Read the author's original post! #The man did some homework. #He read this site....he listened to us on the air....you've heard these criticisms before.....sounds like objectivity to me!

The trouble with you and others is.....you can't take constructive criticism. #

Why so defensive, anyway? #I'll tell you again.....this man has thrown a ringer. #The shoe fits, dudnit Charles!

And in response to your childish tac of calling me a butt kiss, just remember, I'm taking the EXTREME MINORITY view in open opposition to all you subadolescent crybabies!!! #

And you've moistened your lips and planted them firmly and safely on GLUTEOUS MAJORITY!!!

Now tell me again, Charles.....who's the butt kiss here?

Who is it REALLY?

Tom Friess KCØEBM

[kc0ebm]

QUOTE KC9FAC
I agree with this.

Do a google search on the exact phrase &quot;amateur radio.&quot;
The first site listed is the ARRL.
#2 is QRZ.COM

Like it or not, this site is one of the most likely to be
visited by someone on the &quot;outside&quot; looking for
information on amateur radio.

If the original poster was looking for a response which
might change his mind, the the majority of responses
failed miserably, and probably served to reinforce
his opinion.
Close Quote

Finally, a response from a grown man! #Thanks for having the courage to tell it like it is, and doing so wight in the middow of whine tit wadio!

You've got gutts and brains and maturity and I'd be proud to QSO with you KC9FAC!

Thanks again &amp; 73

Tom Friess KCØEBM

[w8amd]

In the case that this is not a troll.......( I still have serious reservations about that.) #The man has brought forth issues that do exist. #Many if not all of them exist in society in general. #Protection from them is not possible in life in general but it could be in the realm of amateur radio if the father puts the nix to it for his kid.

I see multiple problems here.

1.The Amateur Service needs to clean up it act a bit. #Let's not be society but a cut above.

2.If the father thinks he can shelter his child from the level society is at he is mistaken. # ( I know how you feel Sir I am a dad of 3 girls and I still try, #Recently gave up on sheltering the 30 year old but I can't help it with the 16 and 20 year olds! That's just nature, anyone who is a Dad, or Mom knows that.) #On that hand all you do is make yourself feel better. #The kid lives in the real world, but I sympathize.

3. #Distance in any form (net or radio) tends to amplify differences between parties. #We speak to each other differently than if we were standing next to each other in most cases.


Amateur radio can be a good influence on a young person if they get past &quot;just talking&quot; #There is a discipline in traffic handling or any properly run net or just an op who sticks to correct practice in spite of what goes on around him. #By golly sounds a bit like life in general don't it!

BEWARE! #TOD MAY BE A TROLL! #If you look at another thread about the Terrorists,(&quot;Another American Hostage Killed!&quot;) you will see a couple of posts by K9TOD which are QUITE 'Interesting'. BEWARE

EBM and others who believe Concerned Father is operating from any sort of a positionof reality..

Before you defend his illogical position.. THINK for just a second.

1) HE said he searched the Web search engines and the ARRL was the #1 hit.

THE QUESTION - WHY DIDN'T HE GO THE ARRL, since he was seeking THE informative place to go. #(Maybe he did, but he has not said anything about that so I will NOT assume he has. I will assume he hasn't until he proves otherwise.)

The ARRL is, most publicly, the most VISIBLE place where AMATEUR RADIO is specifically and exclusively dealt with.

2) His original post and the followup post show his full ignorance about ham radio and that he based his decision SOLEY on what he reads on QRZ.COM and some casual listening to HF.

WHY this is invalid for a decision and let me use an example- KC0EBM because he was the first to rise in defense of CF's post and the allegations contained within the post AND because he seems to be in full agrreement with what CF has posted.

(for the record, I believe EBM has a great heart and desire for improving ham radio and I've had private email with him which reinforce this, but his defense of the points nad purpose of CF's post allow me to use him as an example)

KC0EBM wants to get info on the medical profession - i.e. to find out if he wants to get into the medical profession as a career OR have his kids consider medicine.

So EBM does a Google search on MEDICINE. He gets TWO hits.
#1 hit is the American Medical Associatoin and the #2 hit is 'MEDICALTALK.COM'

So EBM bypasses the AMA and instead decides to go to #'MEDICALTALK.COM' and finds out it is an open discussion board where ANYONE can post comments, thoughts, opinions, ideas about medicine.

EBM reads the 'OPINIONS ON MEDICINE' section and (GASP!) reads posts that range from the most rational, logical, reasoned perspectives to the totally outlandish and irrational/emotional. #He reads post that flame on doctors and others that support doctors. He reads posts that are emotinally driven based on some personal (bad) experience with a doctor and others who use rational reasoned methods to support and/or refute the post.

EBM THEN decides to go to the place where medical folks congregate so he goes to a Convention or two. (Not many and not taht often, cuz he just wants to check it out)

He wanders around the lobby and some of hte informal conversations and just listens. Why, (GASP) He hears folks from all walks of experience and educatoin in the medical world talk about things. (GASP!) He hears salty language.. he hears 'opinions and ideas' that (like MEDICALTALK.COM) range from accurate to fully inaccurate.

So, EBM then decides, after this rather narrow sample (and without having checked the American Medical Association OR even asked the National ORganization for information) #DECIDES


MEDICINE IS TOO 'CORRUPT' and 'CONTAMINATED' for him or his kids to consider.

ALL Doctors are 'bad' because of his limited Sample.

ERGO! #MEDICINE IS NOT FOR HIM OR HIS KIDS so he goes to his local Community Council and entreats them to ACT against the 'bad, nasty, rotten #Doctors' based on what he observed/heard/read from a VERY limited sample.


Draw your own conclusions...

CF's T-meter reading is now approaching the upper limit of the sensor and the meter may have to be turned off lest it burst into flame due to excessive power being forced through it.

[XV2PS]

Dear concerned Dad,
if you would not appeciate ham in a way or another, why would you bother spending so much time on this forum. In general, those that do not like do not bother as much as you do.

For me, all sounds more like a ham that tries to fit a comment in a forum that he does not want to sustain by a callsign. This is just a feeling, and my apologies if wrong.

[W0LC]

Since you didn't post a valid callsign, your creditability is in question.

What you deem &quot;inappropriate&quot;, there may be some of that, but in general , it isn't the rule. I see more of it in public schools and such more then I see here. But then again, you are entitled to your opinion.

[nx6d]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ June 21 2004,03:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BEWARE! #TOD MAY BE A TROLL! #If you look at another thread about the Terrorists,(&quot;Another American Hostage Killed!&quot;) you will see a couple of posts by K9TOD which are QUITE 'Interesting'. BEWARE[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What?

That seems to be a reoccurring theme with you. Disagreement with your point of view does not equal &quot;troll&quot;.

Comments like that make some of what Concerned Father has to say look legitimate.

WX7B

WX7B I noted it because I wanted people to go read his other posts in context of the other thread so they could determine if he was posting on THIS thread in a 'troll-like' fashion Or not. THAT was the entire purpose of my comment about him.

Tis NOT a recurring theme with me. If it was. I'd be mentioning others a lot more.

BTW. I have to laugh.. your comment about ME posting the note HERE, on this thread, reminds me of the time that you posted the same type of comment when I put the same post on a couple different threads that were related.

You made a point to post a public notice about me doing that.

So I toss the statement back at you. As you note my comment appears - to you - to be a recurring theme.. then I suggest that my posting identical items on threads with similiar issues may be a recurring thread to you!

Intersting!



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KG4YUV]

I think I've decided....

ConcernedFather--

Take your kids to a local club's Field Day location this Saturday. Most clubs generally open their location up to the public, why not go there and get a taste of what ham radio is ACTUALLY like. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I'll go ahead and say it as everyone else already has, it's NOTHING like this forum.

Just give THAT a try, you might be suprised... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
It's what finally motivated me to get my General, just take that into consideration... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KF0RT]

IF CF thinks ham radio is bad, he should read this:

http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html

[nx6d]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KF0RT @ June 21 2004,07:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IF CF thinks ham radio is bad, he should read this:

http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
LOL!

Substitute &quot;marijuana user&quot; for &quot;computer hacker&quot; and we have the 70's all over again!

WX7B

[nx6d]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ June 21 2004,06:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WX7B #I noted it because I wanted people to go read his other posts in context of the other thread so they could determine if he was posting on THIS thread in a 'troll-like' fashion Or not. THAT was the entire purpose of my comment about him.

Tis NOT a recurring theme with me. If it was. I'd be mentioning others a lot more.

BTW. I have to laugh.. your comment about ME posting the note HERE, on this thread, reminds me of the time that you posted the same type of comment when I put the same post on a couple different threads that were related.

You made a point to post a public notice about me doing that.

So I toss the statement back at you. As you note my comment appears - to you - to be a recurring theme.. then I suggest that my posting identical items on threads with similiar issues may be a recurring thread to you!

Intersting!



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you remember correctly, the word I used was &quot;propaganda&quot;. The word was (and is) fitting as your political posts are usually nothing but transparent rehashed right wing and administration spin. A close reading of most of your thoughts mirror administration press releases and right wing boilerplate. That and your inability to ascribe anything negative to the Bush crowd or Republicans in general make you appear to be a propagandist.

Why should we &quot;Beware&quot; (your word) when an opinion is made that is not in agreement with yours? That's my point!

WX7B

[M3CET]

Just gonna throw in my bit...
I'm a 15 year old Ham, and have been licenced for over a year and a half now. I was introduced to Ham Radio by my scout leader, and I have found that there are some people who are out to make kids lives difficult because they want to take an active role in this hobby.
On the other hand... I have spoken to hundreds of operators, and I have enjoyed every single QSO. There are many different forms of this hobby, and I have enjoyed every one I have had a go at so far, CW, Satellites, SSTV, SSB and FM. I have learn't an incredible amount from this hobby so far and will retain my licence for many years to come.
73 all
Mike - M3CET - 96317 (Echolink Node)

[kc0ebm]

Ah, C'mon K3FT

You are a very intelligent and articulate amateur. You are also a very vocal advocate for maintaining the status quo in ham radio, particularly as pertaining to the behavior of amateurs generally. And if that assessment is not entirely correct, it is inarguable that you are not willing to rock the boat regarding amateur behavior on the air, at least not publically.

Contrarilly, publically, you consistently and predictably rise to the defense of those who are challenged for their bad behavior. And publically, you quickly rise to refute those who publically offer constructive criticism of those who behave badly and violate the rules.

Knowing your extensive background in enforcement, I know that rules compliance, and the image of amateur radio, are subjects that are very important to you, at least privately. So, why does your public stand seem to conflict with what must be your private stand?

As for your analogy, I only have this to say. A wise man, wishing to truly know about an organization or institution (amateur radio), would not seek input from that organizations cheerleading foundation (ARRL). Assuming that the author bypassed the ARRL, what would he expect to hear from the ARRL regarding amateur radio? Nothing but flowers, right? RIGHT!!! So, why go there if it is blind objectivity that you seek? If I wanted to get into the medical profession, and really wanted to know what the medical profession is like, I would NOT go to the AMA! Instead, I would observe the halls of the medical profession, where the rubber meets the road.

Needless to say, the author did well to monitor this board. And he did even better by monitoring the amateur airwaves. And when he did, he found us wanting!!! Not only that, but, his assessments are perfectly consistent with the blind objectivity of those of us who are not one whit afraid or ashamed to rock the boat a little bit to effect change. And neither is he at all afraid of taking it on the chin for saying so. Whether this man is a troll or not, I admire the man. At least his public actions and his words are consistent with his private beliefs.

73

Tom Friess KCØEBM

[kc0ebm]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4YUV @ June 21 2004,08:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think I've decided....

ConcernedFather--

Take your kids to a local club's Field Day location this Saturday. Most clubs generally open their location up to the public, why not go there and get a taste of what ham radio is ACTUALLY like. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I'll go ahead and say it as everyone else already has, it's NOTHING like this forum.

Just give THAT a try, you might be suprised... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
It's what finally motivated me to get my General, just take that into consideration... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KG4YUV

With the utmost respect, you gave this man poor advice. Field Day is NO DAY to form an objective opinion of the REAL amateur radio.

Field Day is a public relations evet to demonstrate amateur radio's POTENTIAL, not its everyday function.

On Field Day, everybody is on their BEST behavior because the eyes of public scutiny are invited.

Field Day, among all days, is the day that amateur radio gets the opportunity to put its best foot forward, to enhance public relations, to seek public support, to demonstrate emergency preparedness, and to recruit new amateurs.

Field Day, among all days, is the day that amateur radio gets the opportunity to actually demonstrate the functions that lend it legitimacy.

But, Field Day is by no means the day to objectively demonstrate what amateur radio has become on a day to day basis. And neither is Field Day a day to make any objective assessments about amateur radio generally!

Field Day is &quot;dress rehearsal&quot;, NOT the actual day to day locker room grabass and muscle flexing contest that has become the nightly norm on amateur radio.

Field Day is, among all days, a day for us to hold our heads UP. Every other day is a day for us to hang our heads in shame!

With the utmost respect, YUV, your well intentioned advice is not good advice.

No offense intended.

73

Tom Friess KCØEBM

WX7B.,.. your OPINION is that I hold such a view and act as a 'parrot' for the Bush administration. Well, that is YOUR opinion and is colored by YOUR perceptions, perspective, and belief in the position YOU Hold.

Now, I COULD return the same to you and promote that YOU continue to sound just like a 'parrot' for the left-wing socialist/Marxist/Communistic wing of the modern-day Democratic party.. BUT I SHALL NOT. (I Only wrote the preceeding to illustrate what I COULD Do.

However, honestly, I DON'T believe that you ascribe to, or believe in , that wing's position or party line. I Do believe that you have an aversion to anything that seems to be located on the right side (literally AND politically) of the disucssion and debate. That you have deomstrateted by YOUR posts over the past months.

That's fine. Honest disagreement among honorable men is what fuels honest and passionate debate and discussion.

Just for the record... while I *DO* subscribe to quite a bit of the positoins of the Conservative movement, I DO NOT subscribe blindly to ALL their positions. (Immigration control and better control of visitors in the USA to name just two)

KC0EBM.. Please.. step back takea deep breath and pause..

I'm NOT condoning the bad actors or actions we hear on ham radio. As you noted, I am quite active in working on a particular subset of those bad actors and have been witness so some successes in that arena.

What I was pointing out was 'CF's' (and you since you support his position) failure to seek out the organizatoin that has the historical, legal, and technical information that would provide ACCURATE information from which to make a reasoned decision.

Of course, itis a given that the ARRL - as a proactive organ of support of Amateur Radio - is going to accentuate the positive and reduce the negative. While that may NOT be what a moderate or 'all-revealing' person might want, it is understandable.

(BTW. the ARRL does have plainlyavailable on their website full access to the published FCC enforcement actions, so they don't HIDE it.)

The KEY to getting someone interestedin ham radio is to PROVIDE them what is GOOD about ham radio. They'll discover the 'bad' soon enough, that's for sure.

BUt WHY would one bypass the NATIONAL organization if one is SERIOUS and INTENT on getting ALL the facts and information???

The main reason is to either LOOK ONLY FOR THE BAD to confirm an already held belief OR to find something to use as a bludgeon to batter the activity that is being scrutinized.

As you've read on this thread AND the other one that takes the opposite tack about ham radio.. what you hear on the air.. what you read on QRZ.COM dealing with flamers, agitators, negative bomb throwers ,and miscreants IS NOT representative of the VAST VAST majority of hams.

Remeber. NEGATIVE news makes news because it is negative. People want to find the BAD and tend to extol that over the good. (See ANY 'news' paper/show/program. Their motto is 'IF IT BLEEDS! IT LEADS!!!!'. MAN ABUSES DOG! is headline/frontpage/first story news.. but 'MAN SAVES DOG FROM ABUSIVE OWNER' gets put on the back of page 10 section F.

So it is with CF... 'HAM RADIO IS ___ AND IS BAD!!' (fill in the blanks makes QRZ.COM THREAD NEWS while 'HAMS HELP SALVATION ARMY PROVIDE COMMS DURING CHRISTMAS GIFT DRIVE' gets a mention but that's about it.

&quot;FOUL MOUTHED HAM HEARD ON 75!&quot; gets trumpeted all over the 'net but the story 'HAMS HELP HOMELAND SECURITY BY DEMONSTRATING EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATIONS BACKUP ON 40M&quot; gets a notice by ARRL, but we don't see a lot about it on the 'net.

Certainly that does NOT fit with CF's pespective or others I hvae read postings from.

Also.. while the subject of 'ARRL only gives the flowers' item.. YEs,perhaps true. HOWEVER, it ONLY works UNTIL the ARRL points CF toward an independent Club. THEN the logic falls completely apart.

CF meets other hams in the Club who are not under the ARRL payroll. THOSE hams show CF what hams are like. He learns that a few are F.UP's that you find everywhere BUT the VAST majority are hams who like to serve, do things, particiapte, and contribute!

That's what CF 'misses' by NOT contacting the ARRL. He cuts himself out of an entire vast universe of resources and information that can help him make a VALID decision - rather than one made based on a SKEWED and SLANTED sample.

I know.. this won't satisfy CF at all (assuming he is NOT a troll.. which has not been refuted yet) and you may not accept the preeceeding as valid in any context at all.

But it is.. what it is..

K3FT

[k0ews]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ConcernedFather--

Take your kids to a local club's Field Day location this Saturday. Most clubs generally open their location up to the public, why not go there and get a taste of what ham radio is ACTUALLY like. #

I'll go ahead and say it as everyone else already has, it's NOTHING like this forum.

Just give THAT a try, you mig