View Full Version : Television interference
G1ZEO
06-17-2004, 10:27 AM
Hi all,
Moved to another area, houses closer than norm, but,
Ive tried everything I know to stop TVi.
Radio & antenna equitment,
Yaesu ft1000 V with AV-640.
I do have a small garden hence the AV-640.
Ive ground earth rods in place, all coax to ground,
Ive earthed the radio, fitted filters, higher'd antenna,
( Base 25ft off ground )...
Has anyone any more ideas.?
Ive not had any problems before. Ive been a radio ham since the 70's....
TVi on 6w.
Anyone got any good ideas please?
E-mail me if you can help
many thanks
Rob
England
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
W0UZR
06-17-2004, 11:59 AM
Is it your neighbors TV you're bothering? And he's on cable, right?
If that's the case, then the cable company has to come and fix the neighbors shielding problem.
And you have too many things going to your ground. Eliminate some of them. Cause if you are like me, I had everything going to ground and all I was creating is ground loops. In fact, I took off all the grounds altogether and I'm not bothering a thing. Even my own TV which is on rabbit ears right behind the amplifier. And I live in a trailer park.
I also have a Drake 1000 low pass filter and,,,A B&W lowpass filter on the radio. Overkill? Probably. But it works. And the filters have to be on a good short ground.
Try getting the filters and just grounding them like I have mine and see what happens
And did you move to a new location in your house with your equipment, or to a different house?
N5LRZ
06-17-2004, 12:08 PM
AI4CB makes some very valid points and the below reply is from the point of view of the FCC of the United States. Rules of other nations may vary.
If the problem is arising because your signal is strong enough to cause front end overload on the Televisions then that is the problem of the TV Manufacturer to solve the problem. #OR perhaps the TV owners to put high pass filters on their TVs. #BUT remember the cost of fixing this problem lies with the TV owner NOT you.
If the problem is arising and the TV owners are on CABLE, then it is the legal responsibility of the cable company to keep their signals in their system and all other outside signals out. #Failure or interference from their cable to your receiving is their (the cable companys) problem to solve. #A quick pass at the letters written by the FCC to power companies shows that the FCC is at last starting to make power line companies obey the law.
If the problem is arising because your radio is sending out harmonics greater than the legal limit then might I suggest you send your radio/amp #back to the factory for realignment so that it complies with the FCC standards of engineering. #Upon returning touch nothing and use it just as it is. #Please note I stated specificly FACTORY. #They are the pros and your factory receipt will verify a professional alignment.
BUT if your radio has not been tampered with, is in proper running condition (within specs) and you do not over process or otherwise make your radio go outside the legal envelope then you are free and clear. #If the FCC should call welcome them in. #Ask them to look over your station for possible ways to make it more efficient. #And in general be the good guy. #Taking it for granted that you are completely legal and legit they find nothing so the next time just tell any complaintant that the FCC has already been by and given you #passing mark and some good advise so that you can be on the air longer.
W1RFI
06-17-2004, 12:11 PM
The information and articles at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html may help.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
Guys, please note that Rob is posting from England! Beside the references to F.C.C., I would think the information is probably correct. Rob, you will have to contact your country's Radio Athority ! The F.C.C. can't help you ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
73 from Jim AG3Y
W3MIV
06-17-2004, 05:34 PM
On the ARRL site referenced by Mr Hare is a listing for a copy of the RSGB Guide to EMC book on RFI. If we have the Brit book here, methinks, should it not also be available there on the ould sod?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZEO @ June 16 2004,04:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hi all,
Moved to another area, houses closer than norm, but,
Ive tried everything I know to stop TVi.
Radio & antenna equitment,
Yaesu ft1000 V with AV-640.
I do have a small garden hence the AV-640.
Ive ground earth rods in place, all coax to ground,
Ive earthed the radio, fitted filters, higher'd antenna,
( Base 25ft off ground )...
Has anyone any more ideas.?
Ive not had any problems before. Ive been a radio ham since the 70's....
TVi on 6w.
Anyone got any good ideas please?
E-mail me if you can help
many thanks
Rob
robertrnc@aol.com
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did you have this problem in your old house using the same equipment? #If not, may want to see if you did anything different (new power strip on your TV, or stereo set plugged into the same outlet as your tv)
Do you have more than one TV in your house? If so, see if you have the same problem in the different location.
Are you using RCA jacks to hook up your TV to your VCR or DVD? #If so, remove them and see if you still have the interference.
Also, some bad television cable (traditional RG6) can really drive you nuts.
See if you can narrow the source then try some rf chokes.
This technique allowed me to narrow and isolate the RFI source in the US on 110vac. Would assume this same technique would work for 220.
Earlier post suggested a good idea -- check to see if the person next door is experiencing the same issue.
We also did this with our neighbor and was able to confirm the issue was isolated to our home.
G1ZEO
06-17-2004, 09:16 PM
Many thanks for all your replies,Im grateful....
Ive tried loads of things.
My neighbour also mentions a few more things..
Speaker interference, TV ( uk BBC2 channel only ), Lights going on & off, her door bell rings, & House alarm goes off.
Yes I agree I may come over speakers or even set her house alarm off, but, to operate the other items in her house, Im bewildered....
2 Doors away I only bother UK, channel 4..
My TV does get affected no matter what bands I am on.
I don't want to cause any bother to anyone, I like my hobby. I just want help with trying to stop TVi.
I will get in touch with the authority as I am fully licensed etc and need their help here.
Many thanks
Rob
England.....
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I'm stumped, unless you assembled the antenna incorrectly, or have a bad connection somewhere.
I am putting this link on here, in case someone else wants to review your antenna.
http://www.classicint.nl/manuals/av640.pdf
What happens if you load your rig into a non radiating dummy load ? Anxious for more feedback.
73 from Jim AG3Y
G7HEU
06-17-2004, 11:12 PM
Rob
Where are you in the U.K?
Steve - Swindon, Wiltshire.
M0HEU / G7HEU.
G1ZEO
06-18-2004, 01:13 PM
My antenna is correctly installed and all plugs etc sound.
No Break through on Dummy load.
Coax new, single length, RG213..
Never had problem at previous address, but antenna ( G5RV ) was 120ft away from any house.
Changed antenna to AV-640 due to small garden ( this antenna was recommended ).Houses now approx 20ft from antenna.
Could this be my problem?
Man, what a radio !
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0275.html
I cannot imagine you having all that kind of problem with a 200 watt maximum output radio! I am running 100 watts to an antenna that is mounted horizontally only 1 foot or so above the peak of my two story house, and outside of audio in a set of computer speakers ( very common malady ) and some slight crosshatching on 1 TV channel, I have no other problems that I am aware of.
The fact that you indicate no problems when operating into the dummy load certainly vindicates your rig, I would say. And it is highly possible that you antenna is faultless. However, even more important than the proximity of the antenna to the houses, would be the distance of that antenna to the power lines. Do either you, or your neighbors power lines come really close to that antenna?
You may have to contact the power company to see if they have any sort of filtration that they can install on the lines to eliminate "common mode" interference in the neighborhood.
Keep in touch! 73 again from Jim AG3Y
N5RLR
06-19-2004, 01:38 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZEO @ June 17 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>My neighbour also mentions a few more things..
Speaker interference, TV ( uk BBC2 channel only ), Lights going on & off, her door bell rings, & House alarm goes off.</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>The [stereo? computer?] speaker interference could be due to their leads behaving as antennas, and conducting your signal to their respective audio amplifiers; ferrite beads/cores and/or shielded leads may be required.
The TVI could be harmonic [I don't know the frequency of BBC2, or how it relates to your band of operation]; it may be entering the TV set via the antenna/cable lead-in, or even through the power wiring. #A high-pass filter on the TV RF input may work; as well as a "brute-force" AC-mains filter on the power cord. #Note: If your neighbor's installation is CATV, inspect [or have checked] the condition of the cable length(s) and connections. #Here in the States, I've seen such things as drop-lines from poles, rubbed raw from tree limbs [damaging the coaxial shield]; cable in attics/basements chewed by mice/rats; and signal-splitters [for multuple-set installations] having open, unused connections that were not terminated [this is done with a "terminator," an F-connector with a 75-ohm resistor soldered inside].
The doorbell sounds like an electronic type; I've never seen an electro-mechanical one succumb to RFI [yet]. #Ferrite beads on all leads going to the unit may help.
So too, the home-alarm; and there'll be quite a few wires to deal with. #At the alarm console, each wire-run leading to the windows and doors, should get a ferrite bead.
Lights? #Sounds like dimmers are being used. #You didn't say whether these were table-lamps or lights controlled by wall-switches. #Again, ferrite beads may help, but a wall-switch box may be tricky to get into with beads.</span>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZEO @ June 17 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>2 Doors away I only bother UK, channel 4...</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>My guess is harmonic or overload [off-air antenna], common-mode [AC mains], or cable leakage [CATV].</span>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZEO @ June 17 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>My TV does get affected no matter what bands I am on.</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>Definitely overload; you're simply slamming the front-end of your poor TV! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif</span>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZEO @ June 17 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>I don't want to cause any bother to anyone, I like my hobby. I just want help with trying to stop TVi.
I will get in touch with the authority as I am fully licensed etc and need their help here.</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>RFI/TVI is a contentious beast. http://www.lifeofdebauchery.com/forum/images/smiles/crossbonesgif.gif #It calls for technical ingenuity, a bit of good fortune, and definitely diplomacy when dealing with the neighbors.
Keep us apprised of your findings and progress, Rob. #Good luck! http://www.lifeofdebauchery.com/forum/images/smiles/thumbsup.gif</span>
KG4WRA
06-19-2004, 11:22 PM
Don't worry if it's the neighbors problem. The FCC code states that it is the responsability of the individual being affected with the interference.
K6UEY
06-19-2004, 11:43 PM
KG4WRA,
I do believe that an investigation of the interference might reveal that it is just slightly beyond the jurisdiction of the FCC Code,as powerful and mighty as they may be. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
" OH! Why can't we all get along? "
# # # # # # # # # # # Rodney King
ac0be
06-20-2004, 01:22 AM
How about common mode problems on the feedline?
We are assuming that the antenna is performing as it's supposed to. If not, the feedline may be radiating.
Steve W
G1ZEO
08-23-2004, 07:02 PM
Hi again....
No luck with curing my problem....
I have now taken down all equitment after 30 years..
Thanks all for trying to help me....
Regards
Rob
England UK
Quote[/b] (G1ZEO @ June 17 2004,07:13)]My antenna is correctly installed and all plugs etc sound.
No Break through on Dummy load.
Coax new, single length, RG213..
Never had problem at previous address, but antenna # # # ( G5RV ) was 120ft away from any house.
Changed antenna to AV-640 due to small garden ( this antenna was #recommended ).Houses now approx 20ft from antenna.
Could this be my problem?
Have you tried a low ban pass filter?
Are you receiving the interference on all bands or does the scope of the problem differ based on the band?
(problem on 20 meters, no problem on 40, etc.)
G1ZEO
08-23-2004, 08:47 PM
I have tried almost everything possible..
Thanks....