Removal of the Morse qualification Down Under [Archive]

k4uug

06-17-2004, 03:40 AM

RESTRUCTURING: BIG CHANGES DOWN-UNDER

Big changes are coming to ham radio down-under. This, as Australia announces some sweeping changes that are about to take place in that nations Amateur Radio service.

The ACA has released their report entitled "Outcomes of the Review of Amateur Service Regulation". The report contains the ACA's intended changes to the Amateur service following stakeholder response to the recent discussion paper entitled "A Review of Amateur Service Regulation."

The key changes are removal of the Morse qualification requirements for all grades of amateur radio license; introduction of a new entry level license (the Foundation License) along the lines of the UK Foundation
License, although it will be adapted to suit Australian preferences.

A three tier licensing structure: Advanced, Standard, and Foundation; translation of Unrestricted, Limited and Intermediate licenses to Advanced; translation of Novice and Novice Limited licenses to Standard;
a privileges package for the Standard License that is much greater than enjoyed by Novice Licenses today.

A generous privileges package for the Foundation License allows voice or Morse code at low power (10W PEP) using only unmodified commercial transmitting equipment on all of 80m, 40m, 15m, 10m, 2m, and most of 70cm.

Australian participation in CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01 (reciprocal licensing) is in progress. The status-quo is essentially preserved in respect to higher operating power; interference and interference
management built on current arrangements.

Apparatus Licensing as the vehicle for licensing Australian amateur stations (though stations licensed under CEPT Recommendation T/R 61-01
would be class licensed). State significance of callsigns remains. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 04:35 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I am sorry to hear our friends down under will no longer be tested for their CW skills.I wonder just how long it will take for CW to die away and our Down Under friends will no longer be able to communicate with the Majority of the countries who have decided to retain the basic communication skill of CW.Of course they won't be isolated,there are a few countries that have dropped the requirement that they can communicate with, but they will surely be limited for some of those rare Dx countries that operate CW only.However this is the 21st Century and limiting qualifications to one skill fits all is not limited to the Northern Hemisphere.One more point for K.H.Marx.

k4uug

06-17-2004, 04:46 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,00:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I am sorry to hear our friends down under will no longer be tested for their CW skills.I wonder just how long it will take for CW to die away and our Down Under friends will no longer be able to communicate with the Majority of the countries who have decided to retain the basic communication skill of CW.Of course they won't be isolated,there are a few countries that have dropped the requirement that they can communicate with, but they will surely be limited for some of those rare Dx countries that operate CW only.However this is the 21st Century and limiting qualifications to one skill fits all is not limited to the Northern Hemisphere.One more point for K.H.Marx.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Tone readers and key boards can run off battery also!

GOT BIG NEWS FOR YA

The "New" Novice

The entry-level license class--being called "Novice" for now--would require a 25-question written exam. It would offer limited HF CW/data and phone/image privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 meters as well as VHF and UHF privileges on 6 and 2 meters and on 222-225 and 430-450 MHz. Power output would be restricted to 100 W on 80, 40, and 15 meters and to 50 W on 10 meters and up, thus avoiding the need for the more complex RF safety questions in the Novice question pool.

"The Board sought to achieve balance in giving new Novice licensees the opportunity to sample a wider range of Amateur Radio activity than is available to current Technicians while retaining a motivation to upgrade," said ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ. "It was also seen as important to limit the scope of privileges so the exam would not have to include material that is inappropriate at the entry level."

As an introduction to Amateur Radio, the Novice license served successfully for most of its 50-year history. The FCC has not issued new Novice licenses since the 2000 license restructuring, however. Under the ARRL plan, current Novice licensees--now the smallest and least active group of radio amateurs--would be grandfathered to the new entry-level class without further testing.

Anticipating assertions that the new plan would "dumb down" Amateur Radio licensing, Harrison said those currently holding a ticket often perceive the level of complexity to have been greater when they were first licensed than it actually was. "Quite frankly," he said, "if you review the questions presented in our license manuals throughout the years, you will be surprised how they compare to those of today."

Technicians and Generals

The middle group of licensees--Technician, Tech Plus (Technician with Element 1 credit) and General--would be consolidated into a new General license that no longer would require a Morse examination. Current Technician and Tech Plus license holders automatically would gain current General class privileges without additional testing. The current Element 3 General examination would remain in place for new applicants. ARRL already has proposed additional phone privileges for Generals in its "Novice refarming" petition, RM-10413, but the FCC has not yet acted on that petition.

Morse Code Testing Retained for Extra

At the top rung, the Board indicated that it saw no compelling reason to change the Amateur Extra class license requirements. The ARRL plan calls on the FCC to combine the current Advanced and Amateur Extra class licensees into Amateur Extra, because the technical level of the exams passed by these licensees is very similar. New applicants for Extra would have to pass a 5 WPM Morse code examination, but the written exam would stay the same. The League's plan calls for current Novice, Tech Plus and General class licensees to receive lifetime Element 1 (5 WPM Morse) credit.

"This structure provides a true entry-level license with HF privileges to promote growth in the Amateur Service," Harrison said. "It also simplifies the FCC database by conforming to the current Universal Licensing System (ULS) structure and does not mandate any modifications to it."

Sumner concurred. "The Board started out by recognizing that three license classes was the right number when looking down the road 10 or 15 years," he said. "We need a new entry-level license."

"On the other hand, there's nothing particularly wrong with the existing Extra class license," he continued. "The change in the international regulations notwithstanding, the Board felt that the highest level of accomplishment in the FCC's amateur licensing structure should include basic Morse capability."

Sumner and Harrison say the current Technician entry-level ticket provides little opportunity to experience facets of ham radio beyond repeater operation. "The quality of that experience," Sumner said, "often depends on the operator's location."

Among other advantages, Sumner said the plan would allow new Novices to participate in HF SSB emergency nets on 75 and 40 meters as well as on the top 100 kHz of 15 meters. The new license also could get another name, Sumner said. "We're trying to recapture the magic of the old Novice license, but in a manner that's appropriate for the 21st century."

Proposal Includes "Novice Refarming" Band Plan

The overall proposed ARRL license restructuring plan would more smoothly integrate HF spectrum privileges across the three license classes and would incorporate the "Novice refarming" plan the League put forth nearly two years ago in a Petition for Rule Making (RM-10413). The FCC has not yet acted on the ARRL plan, which would alter the current HF subbands. The Novice refarming proposal would eliminate the 80, 40 and 15-meter Novice/Technician Plus CW subbands as such and reuse that spectrum in part to expand phone/image subbands on 80 and 40 meters.

The ARRL license restructuring design calls for no changes in privileges for Extra and General class licensees on 160, 60, 30, 20, 17 or 12 meters. Novice licensees would have no access to those bands.

Proposed Phone/Image HF Subbands (Includes Novice Refarming Proposal)
80 Meters

Extra: 3.725-4.000 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)
General: 3.800-4.000 MHz (gain of 50 kHz)
Novice: 3.900-4.000 MHz (new)
40 meters

Extra: 7.125-7.300 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)
General: 7.175-7.300 MHz (gain of 50 kHz)
Novice: 7.200-7.300 MHz (new)
15 meters

Extra: 21.200-21.450 MHz (no change)
General: 21.275-21.450 MHz (gain of 25 kHz)
Novice: 21.350-21.450 MHz (new)
10 meters

Extra and General: 28.300-29.700 MHz (no change)
Novice: 28.300-28.500 MHz (no change)
Proposed CW/Data-Exclusive HF Subbands (Includes Novice Refarming Proposal)

80 meters

Extra: 3.500-3.725 MHz
General: 3.525-3.725 MHz
Novice: 3.550-3.700 MHz
40 meters

Extra: 7.000-7.125 MHz
General: 7.025-7.125 MHz
Novice: 7.050-7.125 MHz
15 meters

Extra: 21.000-21.200 MHz
General: 21.025-21.200 MHz
Novice: 21.050-21.200 MHz
10 meters

Extra/General: 28.000-28.300 MHz
Novice: 28.050-28.300 MHz

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

NO EXCUSE NOT TO DROP THE CODE

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 04:58 AM

Well I am NOT going to get into a code Pi$$ing contest,you and the 200K lazy NCT's will probably get your way and the 85% of the world who retain code are wrong,after all,in this country every one is born EQUAL,just some are more EQUAL than others Minority Rules....... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

K8YS

06-17-2004, 05:02 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 15 2004,22:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I am sorry to hear our friends down under will no longer be tested for their CW skills.I wonder just how long it will take for CW to die away and our Down Under friends will no longer be able to communicate with the Majority of the countries who have decided to retain the basic communication skill of CW.Of course they won't be isolated,there are a few countries that have dropped the requirement that they can communicate with, but they will surely be limited for some of those rare Dx countries that operate CW only.However this is the 21st Century and limiting qualifications to one skill fits all is not limited to the Northern Hemisphere.One more point for K.H.Marx.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A sad day indeed, another victory for the "New World Order".

As hard as "we" try, English is the language of commerce, it is required to fly aircraft, but it is still not the language of the common citizen in many of the worlds countries. Machine code can be understood by machines, but the spoken work is a bit more difficult.

Amateur Radio is a world wide hobby, almost every government allows ham radio of one sort or another. Since the spoken word is not universal, this leaves a language gap. Morse Code fills that language gap... but many of the worlds governments are building walls around their borders. The one language that was understood by all, is no longer a requirement for a license.

Sad day for ham radio.
Glorious victory for the New World Order.

KL7FZ

06-17-2004, 05:08 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 16 2004,21:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO EXCUSE NOT TO DROP THE CODE[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
10-4 Good Buddy! Might as well do away with the Q-signals, the ability to write (don't need it to copy down the code), and thus the need to be able to spell, or read. Heck, then we can do away with the schools, teachers, and books. No need for them. No need to learn anything then huh?
Let's just give eveyone a power mic, linear amp, roger beep and turn them all loose. I am sure you will love HF then.
The no-code tech was supposed to bring all them thar educated techs that did not have time to learn code into ham radio. All it did was allow a whole bunch of CBers to get licensed.
What's your personal? You're running 9 pounds here. I've got five pills in my amp.
I hear it every day. That what your blamed no-code did to ham radio.
And saw another tech ask how to build a dipole on another forum.
#No code HF is bull. Period. You will regret it in the long run. #
#You guys are just determined to bring ham radio down to it's lowest possible level.
#"Do less. Learn less. Know less."
#The motto of the no-code contingent.

#Good grief!
#KL7FZ

k4uug

06-17-2004, 05:14 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ June 17 2004,01:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Amateur Radio is a world wide hobby, almost every government allows ham radio of one sort or another. Since the spoken word is not universal, this leaves a language gap. Morse Code fills that language gap... but many of the worlds governments are building walls around their borders. The one language that was understood by all, is no longer a requirement for a license.Sad day for ham radio.
Glorious victory for the New World Order.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Tone readers and key boards & computer programs can speak code as well as forigen languages all can operate on emergency power. Some people are tone deaf some cant learn code it their life depended on it! change is a good thing and dont give me the cber crap excuse either,So whats the point with the New World Order comment? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I bet you belive in UFO'S,bigfoot and the swamp thing too!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WA5KRP

06-17-2004, 05:20 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 16 2004,22:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder just how long it will take for CW to die away and our Down Under friends will no longer be able to communicate with the Majority of the countries who have decided to retain the basic communication skill of CW.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Orv,

If CW is all you crank it up to be (and I happen to agree), why not consider the possibility it will develop its own group of devotees drawn by its capabilities and those who enjoy it? #You damn sure aren't going to keep code alive trying to hammer it into everybody's head by regulation. #Take it easy. #Throw the stick away - try a carrot.

Or are you convinced your approach is winning converts?

Happy DX, pally.

WA5KRP
Texas

K8YS

06-17-2004, 05:21 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 15 2004,23:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tone readers and key boards & computer programs can speak code as well as forigen languages all can operate on emergency power. Some people are tone deaf some cant learn code it their life depended on it! change is a good thing and dont give me the cber crap excuse either,So whats the point with the New World Order comment? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I bet you belive in UFO'S,bigfoot and the swamp thing too!

#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
oh, how SILLY of me, EVERYONE owns a computer and tone readers. I just forgot about those.

KL7FZ

06-17-2004, 05:22 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 16 2004,22:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some people are tone deaf some cant learn code it their life depended on it!

I bet you belive in UFO'S,bigfoot and the swamp thing too!

#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hogwash! If you can hear someone talking you can hear code. Just set the code tone at the normal human voice frequency range.
If you can hear me talk then you can hear me speak the code characters to you. And if you can hear that, then you can hear code sent at the same frequency.
Deaf people copy code with lights.And some with bone conduction.
#Just an excuse not to have to do any work to earn the license.

Next excuse please?
#KL7FZ

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 05:38 AM

N1OBN,
Rick, you have mentioned these keyboard and tone readers that can copy code. Where are they Rick ? The only ones I have heard of can copy 100% from a keyboard ONLY, they can not copy a fist sent CW. That is another lazy man's way of code copy,that has not proven reliable.Is that one of the new rules,that CW must only be sent from a keyboard ? There is nothing more reliable than a person using their brain,at least for those who have taken the time to learn to use it.How ever for that to fit into the socialist structure we would all have to use our brains,or #none would be allowed to use their brains, to keep everyone Equal,which way do you think it is going ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

k4uug

06-17-2004, 05:43 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KL7FZ @ June 17 2004,01:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">10-4 Good Buddy! Let's just give eveyone a power mic, linear amp, roger beep and turn them all loose. I am sure you will love HF then.
The no-code tech was supposed to bring all them thar educated techs that did not have time to learn code into ham radio. All it did was allow a whole bunch of CBers to get licensed.
What's your personal? You're running 9 pounds here. I've got five pills in my amp.
I hear it every day. That what your blamed no-code did to ham radio.
And saw another tech ask how to build a dipole on another forum.
#No code HF is bull. Period. You will regret it in the long run. #
#You guys are just determined to bring ham radio down to it's lowest possible level.
#"Do less. Learn less. Know less."
#The motto of the no-code contingent.

#Good grief!
#KL7FZ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You sound like the Repeater Police in the other forum.Your comments are the example of that personality.

Ever notice the repeater police seem to be the jerks with that elitist persona I know Morse Code so I am GOD's gift to Amature Radio!They are the same folks who get on 75Meters or 20 meters and act like the CB folks they are always putting down.The same guys who drop your phone patch and Kerchunk the repeater.A VHF club I was a member of in North Carolina had over 200 members strong in it and two of the repeater cops always interjected their smart azzed remarks into others conversations,dropped links,phone patches,talked on the input and out put of the repeater and would talk over others qso's Now that club has 18 members in it and 2 of them are the repeater cops. ???and now the repeater is silent.Oh yea member dues was $25.00 a year you got phone patch codes and linking codes at $25.00 @ 200 members down to two repeater cops and 18 members that is a loss of a chunk of change! and they did it to theirself because the stereo type elitist personality! "OUCH !"

DIT DAH
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

k4uug

06-17-2004, 05:49 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,01:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N1OBN,
Rick, you have mentioned these keyboard and tone readers that can copy code. Where are they Rick ? The only ones I have heard of can copy 100% from a keyboard ONLY, they can not copy a fist sent CW. That is another lazy man's way of code copy,that has not proven reliable.Is that one of the new rules,that CW must only be sent from a keyboard ? There is nothing more reliable than a person using their brain,at least for those who have taken the time to learn to use it.How ever for that to fit into the socialist structure we would all have to use our brains,or #none would be allowed to use their brains, to keep everyone Equal,which way do you think it is going ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif tone readers and key boards are now a socalist agenda? I KNOW YOU BELIVE IN BIGFOOT & UFO's

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 05:59 AM

Frankly, I think all of those who are arguing for the retention of the code requirement are out of their heads. What legitimate reason is there for keeping it? NONE. It just a bunch of old geezers holding on to what they believe the hobby is. Well I got news for you, that hobby is long gone. Listen to the bands. Activity is way down and most hams on the air today are old and getting old. Who is going to be left in 20 years? No-one. The hobby will be extinct. But still, the die-hards cling to the code – that uniquely hamdom form of hazing. Frankly, there are not a lot of people to chat with on the radio anymore. The hobby was more vibrant 25 years ago. We need new blood, plain and simple. So guys, get over it. The day of no code is coming – and thank God it is.

K6BBC

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 06:01 AM

WA5KRP,
No I don't really think I could convert any of the no-code devotees,but that is also my concern. First they whined and cried about being refused entry because of the code,so they pushed for the NCT,once that was in place the theory all of a sudden was too hard to learn ,so that was watered down,next they wanted HF NO-Code priviledges, that's about to be, whats next? Are they deciding since they don't learn code no one else needs it either, and they need the spectrum space for all their CB buddies who will join them.Right from the beginning they have refused to meet the qualifications ,but have insisted on more and more priviledges,the sale of Amateur Radio is almost over, there is almost nothing left to give away!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 06:03 AM

k4uug

06-17-2004, 06:05 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 17 2004,01:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Frankly, I think all of those who are arguing for the retention of the code requirement are out of their heads. #What legitimate reason is there for keeping it? #NONE. #It just a bunch of old geezers holding on to what they believe the hobby is. #Well I got news for you, that hobby is long gone. #Listen to the bands. #Activity is way down and most hams on the air today are old and getting old. #Who is going to be left in 20 years? #No-one. #The hobby will be extinct. #But still, the die-hards cling to the code – that uniquely hamdom form of hazing. #Frankly, there are not a lot of people to chat with on the radio anymore. #The hobby was more vibrant 25 years ago. #We need new blood, plain and simple. #So guys, get over it. #The day of no code is coming – and thank God it is.

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
K6BBC WELL SAID THANKS! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

WA5KRP

06-17-2004, 06:30 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WA5KRP,
No I don't really think I could convert any of the no-code devotees............[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We can accomplish a lot more by getting on the air and working the newbies rather than getting into cyber pissing contests. Forget the jo's - focus on the guys trying to grow into amateur radio. There's a lotovum out there.

You can handle it.

WA5KRP
Texas

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 06:51 AM

WA5KRP,
Don't worry Dan,I have always done more than my share of helping the Qualified newbies to advance into Amateur radio. I keep my sincere efforts on the air and direct when possible,but I do like to stir up the clowns and wannabes on the internet.Since most don't have the first inkling of what Amateur Radio is about,they lose interest and wander off to screw some thing else up, so the chance to stir the pot is a passing one.
I'm sure you remember the famous 90 day wonders,who after 3 months of officers school learned all there was to learn about being in command. Well some of the newbies remind me of the 90 day wonders,last year they could not spell AMATEUR this year they are one and know all the problems and the solutions and have the authotity from GOD to make the corrections.
Take care ,catch you on the REAL AMATEUR RADIO some time..... # #73, # ORV

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 06:55 AM

N1OBN, I see by your picture you studied music also!!They say musicians are pretty good CW operators! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

WA5KRP

06-17-2004, 07:14 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,00:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WA5KRP,
Don't worry Dan,I have always done more than my share of helping......Take care ,catch you on the REAL AMATEUR RADIO some time..... # #73, # ORV[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK.

73

WA5KRP
Texas

af2cw

06-17-2004, 12:19 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 17 2004,02http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But still, the die-hards cling to the code – that uniquely hamdom form of hazing. #Frankly, there are not a lot of people to chat with on the radio anymore. #The hobby was more vibrant 25 years ago.

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I can't see why you call knowing the code a form of
hazing. If I remember correctly it is a requirement. Or
has things changed since you were first licensed? The
hobby is still quite active today as years ago. There are
plenty of people to talk with, maybe you're not listening
in the right places.

Eventually the Technicians will gain their privileges on
the HF bands. They'll be happy for a short time. Then the
next phase of complaining will begin. They need more
spectrum. Eventually those that enjoy morse code will
be pushed farther down the bands. Which will lead to
those ops doing what they can already do, and that is
operate anywhere on the bands. Which will lead to those
that can't/won't use morse code to complain even more
about the "illegals" operating out of their area.

Do you think the rest of the countries that require morse
code will reduce their sub-bands to comply with the US?
Guess again.

The ARS isn't dying because of the code. If you believe
that you really need to move on to another hobby. It is
dying because the standards are so low that there is no
challenge. There is no pride in any accomplishment the
licensee does because there was no effort put into it.
Since the licenses and spectrum are handed out so freely
there isn't any challenges left other than the dreaded
code.

Orv, I remember the 90 day "blunders" as we called them
when I was in. They knew everything, except how to do
their job. The enlisted/NCO's had to wipe their noses and
teach them their jobs. Hmmmm, sounds like what's
going on here as well.

W0LC

06-17-2004, 12:43 PM

Here we go again.

Who farted?

af2cw

06-17-2004, 01:11 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W0LC @ June 17 2004,08:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here we go again.

Who farted?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sri, had baked beans last night w/cajun spices. Won't
happen again http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 01:15 PM

WØLC, It must have been you,your the closest one to the smell!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

KC8KZY

06-17-2004, 01:26 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 17 2004,00:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">???If #the tech asking about the dipole got the crap you just handed me now we know why the hobby is dying out! Heck I never owned a CB But I just bet you do! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi,

I'm only commenting on this point: If a Tech class licensee had really understood the material he should have studied to pass his test, he would know how to build a dipole antenna. I actually think it's even part of the Novice class theory (is that still part of the NCT test?). Either way, his study material would have been a great reference to use, before posting on any forum.

Tom

ky5u

06-17-2004, 01:37 PM

OBN said: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The largest population of Hams are NTC they are now the majority and you are the minority [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

NTC? Nerdy Tech Crybabies?

On a serious note, I see you use the Purple Heart as an avatar. Where did your injury happen?

af2cw

06-17-2004, 01:37 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8KZY @ June 17 2004,09:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 17 2004,00:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">???If #the tech asking about the dipole got the crap you just handed me now we know why the hobby is dying out! Heck I never owned a CB But I just bet you do! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi,

I'm only commenting on this point: #If a Tech class licensee had really understood the material he should have studied to pass his test, he would know how to build a dipole antenna. #I actually think it's even part of the Novice class theory (is that still part of the NCT test?). #Either way, his study material would have been a great reference to use, before posting on any forum.

Tom[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now you want people to study AND
remember? Are you in for a lot of angry posts on that
one!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

W0LC

06-17-2004, 02:14 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,06:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WØLC, It must have been you,your the closest one to the smell!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
UEY-Or I walked into it!
Topic and some of the posts sure smell like a fart!

W0LC

06-17-2004, 02:17 PM

Man, gotta admit. This bitchin and moanin, name calling and elite labeling sure gets old. Sometimes, one has to consider the source though.

Funny thing though. I got licensed to enjoy the hobby regardless of who is what, etc., but many others seem to enjoy bantering and name calling more then using the hobby.

Sad.

k4uug

06-17-2004, 02:41 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg2hg @ June 17 2004,09:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now you want people to study AND
remember? Are you in for a lot of angry posts on that
one!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I belive the stupid question is the one you never ask!

K9STH

06-17-2004, 02:53 PM

Let us all not enter into the realm of personal attacks!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

af2cw

06-17-2004, 02:58 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 17 2004,10:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg2hg @ June 17 2004,09:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now you want people to study AND
remember? Are you in for a lot of angry posts on that
one!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I belive the stupid question is the one you never ask![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Rick, calm down. It was said in jest, don't take things
so personal or literal. Enjoy your day.

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 03:00 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg2hg @ June 17 2004,05:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 17 2004,02<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But still, the die-hards cling to the code – that uniquely hamdom form of hazing. #Frankly, there are not a lot of people to chat with on the radio anymore. #The hobby was more vibrant 25 years ago.

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I can't see why you call knowing the code a form of
hazing. If I remember correctly it is a requirement. Or
has things changed since you were first licensed? The
hobby is still quite active today as years ago. There are
plenty of people to talk with, maybe you're not listening
in the right places.

Eventually the Technicians will gain their privileges on
the HF bands. They'll be happy for a short time. Then the
next phase of complaining will begin. They need more
spectrum. Eventually those that enjoy morse code will
be pushed farther down the bands. Which will lead to
those ops doing what they can already do, and that is
operate anywhere on the bands. Which will lead to those
that can't/won't use morse code to complain even more
about the "illegals" operating out of their area.

Do you think the rest of the countries that require morse
code will reduce their sub-bands to comply with the US?
Guess again.

The ARS isn't dying because of the code. If you believe
that you really need to move on to another hobby. It is
dying because the standards are so low that there is no
challenge. There is no pride in any accomplishment the
licensee does because there was no effort put into it.
Since the licenses and spectrum are handed out so freely
there isn't any challenges left other than the dreaded
code.

Orv, I remember the 90 day "blunders" as we called them
when I was in. They knew everything, except how to do
their job. The enlisted/NCO's had to wipe their noses and
teach them their jobs. Hmmmm, sounds like what's
going on here as well.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you truly believe what you write, you are just being foolish. I have been licensed since 1968. There are less people on the bands. I know this trough observation. What’s most disturbing, there are very very few young people. Youth is the future of any enterprise. If you want to remain selfish, keep this code nonsense up. You will be killing your hobby. As for hazing, what else would you call it? It’s 2004. Code is dieing. I cannot tell you how many posts I have read stating that code is “the gatekeeper” that will keep the riff-raft out. To all you jerks who believe that, stick your stupid, ignorant, elitist, snobbish, bigoted attitudes where the sun don’t shine. Is that clear enough or should I tap it out at 13 WPM for those whose brains only function at that speed?

K6BBC

KB9YCO

06-17-2004, 03:01 PM

Yeah, what happened to that moratorium on this same old discussion too. Not that I care really, I find it amusing that people like Orv can make general statements about an entire license class without it being a personal attack, (and of course without really knowing what he's talking about since he doesn't know what all no code techs know or think) but when someone points out his narrow-minded, backwards thinking, crotchety, elitist attitude that's not a personal attack. Interesting...
YOU PEOPLE HAD BETTER BE MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE TEST REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE YOU SHOULD HAVE INSTEAD OF BICKERING ABOUT CODE !
If the test alone produces a pool of operators that have a modicum of knowledge garnered from memorizing a few questions on a multiple choice test, we'll have more problems than whether there's a code requirement or not. Wake up people.

W0LC

06-17-2004, 03:06 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ June 17 2004,07:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let us all not enter into the realm of personal attacks!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Face it Glen.

With some individuals, it is always just about that when someone posts about code, testing, etc.
I have never in all my years of a licensed amateur seen so much name calling and labeling. Funny, I never had the need to ask about a license class of an op at a hamfest, on a repeater, on HF, CW, etc. Wonder why it seems so important here? Hmmm.

I suppose that is why I am labeled too. Wouldn't be the first time.

Did you hear Avvid is closing up shop???

N8CPA

06-17-2004, 03:08 PM

Wasn't one of the pre-91 promises that dropping the code requirement for VHF/UHF access would foment an inrush of "God's gifts to Amateur Radio?" Where are they today? The inroads and records at VHF and above, even among 802.11B experiments (whatever that League initiative is called) are mostly made by 1x2 greybeards--the so called elitists.

And if dropping Element 1 for HF access will foment the development of a corps of voluntary CW afficianados, where are such operators on VHF/UHF under current licensing standards? To say such a thing will happen on HF if it hasn't already happened on VHF after 13+ years is specious if not disingenuous. The folks using CW on VHF and above are mostly the same ones who did so before '91, former Novices and pre-87 Technicians.

Lastly, if encouraging the maintenance of a distinctive operating language on Amateur allocations makes me an elitist, so be it! There is a relationship among language, viewpoint and behavior. Those who lack respect for the language, will be prone to reject behavioral norms. If I speak and act like an "elitist," I'd say I'm in pretty good company on Amateur Radio, for the most part.

af2cw

06-17-2004, 03:08 PM

K6BBC,

I don't look at code as the gatekeeper, or a filter.
No offense meant by my previous post. At present it is
just a requirement. You did what others have done. You
took the exams as required to obtain the license you
have. I do not, nor will not force the code down anyones
throat. If they prefer not to use it so be it. The only
thing I have to say is that just because I enjoy using
morse code does not label me as one that is ruining,
killing the hobby, nor keeping others from enjoying it.

I can not speak for the 1960's, 1970's nor the 1980's
when it comes to the decline of operators on the air. I
can say that I have enjoyed numerous conversations
on the air at varying times of the day/evening. No, the
bands are not over crowded, however there are people
out there to talk with.

Enjoy your day.

KB9YCO

06-17-2004, 03:16 PM

Those who lack respect for language may reject behavioral norms? You've got to be kidding right? So you can't respect proper operation because you don't know code? Oy.
This is why the answer lies in actual knowledge and testing; a fuller knowledge and respect for the service and it's purpose (beyond just entertaining yourself) will do much more for the future of amateur radio than any amount of code testing alone. I can't see why people are so worried about code and not worried about THE TEST. What's wrong with you people?!?!?! Can't you see that testing is much, much more important than a knowledge of code? Yet we go on and on, myself included, with this pointless fray that will add nothing useful and only causes more division. TESTING TESTING 1 2 3...

W8MW

06-17-2004, 03:39 PM

If it's okay to comment on the original subject concerning amateur radio in Australia ...

1. #Most of us who have been in the hobby for a while #recognize VKs as some of the finest amateurs in the world. #I respect them enough to pay attention to what they think is best for amateur radio.

2. #The VK amateur population is much more involved in their license restructuring process than US amateurs. #Their number of licensees is a small fraction of US, but they submitted about the same number of comments to ACA as we did to FCC. #It's been estimated that 10 percent of VK amateurs participated in the process. #Approximately two-tenths of one percent did the same in US.

3. #Austrailia carefully scrutinized the UK's Foundation ticket as a viable entry point into amateur radio. #All we do in the US is continue to argue with no apparent interest in what is working elsewhere. #Incidentally it has been noted that the no code Foundation license has produced a number of new amateurs who chose to learn and operate Morse code. #But let's not allow facts to interrupt our bickering and bleak forecasts about the future.

4. #No code HF was a done deal in VK land over new year's. #They had an on-air special event welcoming new HF operators. #They set a great example of the amateur spirit -- welcoming and inclusive rather than judgmental and exclusive.

No facts or trends or any other external input will change the minds of those with hardened positions. #Those who know their personal opinion is more astute than the majority of Australian amateurs, don't hesitate to tell us how wrong they are and how right you are. #But if the goal is to do something proactive with the future in mind,
VK is there and US is no where.

KD5VDO

06-17-2004, 03:41 PM

I saw a comment that code is keeping young people out of the hobby. As one of these younger people, I figured I would just throw this out there:

Seeing that there used to be many more young people on the air before this 5wpm for everything; and that all of those interested in radio at my school have taken the initiative to learn the code; and seeing that other than FM, I now exclusively operate code...

I can't see how code keeps young people out of the hobby. The first qso I ever witnessed was 20m CW, and that didn't discourage me. I took element one thinking I would never use code, now I fear that without the test when I'm the age of most people on this forum I'll have no one to talk to.

73,
Noah

W0LC

06-17-2004, 03:46 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5VDO @ June 17 2004,08:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I saw a comment that code is keeping young people out of the hobby. #As one of these younger people, I figured I would just throw this out there:

Seeing that there used to be many more young people on the air before this 5wpm for everything; and that all of those interested in radio at my school have taken the initiative to learn the code; and seeing that other than FM, I now exclusively operate code...

I can't see how code keeps young people out of the hobby. #The first qso I ever witnessed was 20m CW, and that didn't discourage me. #I took element one thinking I would never use code, now I fear that without the test when I'm the age of most people on this forum I'll have no one to talk to.

73,
Noah[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't worry Noah, there are many of us that are willing to talk to you and you probably won't know the age of the other operator unless you ask! As you get older, you will still find many hams that are warm and open to dialog, regardless.

I understand what you are saying though. There seems to be some misconception about testing requirements having some adverse reason more individuals don't get licensed. I never saw the code test for example, as some big obstacle. It was something I had to sit down and learn, which I did, and over time using it, became more proficient.

I for one feel it is more of a lack of a willingness to spend the time when there are so many other "interests" out there vying for our time (i.e. video gaming, internet, computers, etc.). Many of my ham friends when I was a teenager were the older ops. Now it seems it is the opposite!

Amateur radio isn't the great unique hobby it once came across as say 20-30 years ago.

W0LC

06-17-2004, 03:53 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8MW @ June 17 2004,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If it's okay to comment on the original subject concerning amateur radio in Australia ...

1. #Most of us who have been in the hobby for a while #recognize VKs as some of the finest amateurs in the world. #I respect them enough to pay attention to what they think is best for amateur radio.

2. #The VK amateur population is much more involved in their license restructuring process than US amateurs. #Their number of licensees is a small fraction of US, but they submitted about the same number of comments to ACA as we did to FCC. #It's been estimated that 10 percent of VK amateurs participated in the process. #Approximately two-tenths of one percent did the same in US.

3. #Austrailia carefully scrutinized the UK's Foundation ticket as a viable entry point into amateur radio. #All we do in the US is continue to argue with no apparent interest in what is working elsewhere. #Incidentally it has been noted that the no code Foundation license has produced a number of new amateurs who chose to learn and operate Morse code. #But let's not allow facts to interrupt our bickering and bleak forecasts about the future.

4. #No code HF was a done deal in VK land over new year's. #They had an on-air special event welcoming new HF operators. #They set a great example of the amateur spirit -- welcoming and inclusive rather than judgmental and exclusive.

No facts or trends or any other external input will change the minds of those with hardened positions. #Those who know their personal opinion is more astute than the majority of Australian amateurs, don't hesitate to tell us how wrong they are and how right you are. #But if the goal is to do something proactive with the future in mind,
VK is there and US is no where.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I too respect the VK's, but I think honestly, they are just following suit as some of the other ITU countries have.

Many of these types of decisions aren't made by the majority or the minority of ops but by higher ups.

As to someone making the comment that those that use code/support code are a minority, I think they should re-read the polls that were taken some time ago. It still remains the number two mode used by amateurs across various frequency spectrums. But that isn't the issue here, just a correction to an erroneous comment.

n0ov

06-17-2004, 04:13 PM

** News Flash **

Eliminating CW testing requirements does not eliminate CW.

Same folks who use CW after the test will continue to use it, regardless if it's part of a test requirement or not.

Some folks are simply up for the challenge to try something different!

N8CPA

06-17-2004, 04:15 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB9YCO @ June 17 2004,11:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those who lack respect for language may reject behavioral norms? You've got to be kidding right? So you can't respect proper operation because you don't know code? Oy.
This is why the answer lies in actual knowledge and testing; a fuller knowledge and respect for the service and it's purpose (beyond just entertaining yourself) will do much more for the future of amateur radio than any amount of code testing alone. I can't see why people are so worried about code and not worried about THE TEST. What's wrong with you people?!?!?! Can't you see that testing is much, much more important than a knowledge of code? Yet we go on and on, myself included, with this pointless fray that will add nothing useful and only causes more division. TESTING TESTING 1 2 3...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Amateur language and Morse Code are not necessarily synonymous, but Amateur spoken language is a reflection historic roots in Morse. It also reflects a global ethos, as opposed to a line of sight mentality. If so many people want to escape the chaos of the channels for the joys of the VFO, why bring the same language along? Is it too much trouble to learn the language that reflects a proud, disciplined tradition? One of the best analogies I read compared using CBisms on Amateur bands to moving into an upscale neighborhood and towing a rusty junker to the front yard. If the use CBisms is just a way of annoying folks, it works too well. And it justifies a popular perception that we are just glorified CB, and thereby jeopardizes our allocations.

And if you don't believe in a linkage between language and behavior, listen to gangsta rap; learn Spanish and listen to Narco Corrido; or watch any daytime TV talk show and count the beeps. The same thing applies in just about any
free-access, public venue. People who use undisciplined speech are likely to behave in similar manner. It's true of society at large, and it's true of Amateur Radio as a microcosm.

ky5u

06-17-2004, 04:28 PM

Rick,

Thanks for what you did in the military and for your part in handling a bad situation. Obviously I am sorrowed by the injury and thank you for what you did to protect my freedom.

Although I differ greatly in opinion with you on your narrow minded stance on code testing, it does not alter my appreciation.

W8MW

06-17-2004, 04:33 PM

W0LC: #If you want to examine what influence VK amateurs had in shaping the formal decision of ACA

http://www.aca.gov.au/aca_hom....per.htm (http://www.aca.gov.au/aca_home/licensing/radcomm/amateur_review/amateur_review_disc_paper.htm)

KB9YCO

06-17-2004, 05:04 PM

"Amateur language and Morse Code are not necessarily synonymous, but Amateur spoken language is a reflection historic roots in Morse. It also reflects a global ethos, as opposed to a line of sight mentality. If so many people want to escape the chaos of the channels for the joys of the VFO, why bring the same language along? Is it too much trouble to learn the language that reflects a proud, disciplined tradition? One of the best analogies I read compared using CBisms on Amateur bands to moving into an upscale neighborhood and towing a rusty junker to the front yard. If the use CBisms is just a way of annoying folks, it works too well. And it justifies a popular perception that we are just glorified CB, and thereby jeopardizes our allocations."

No argument here, my point was about code as a defining factor in determining on air behavior, which is of course ridiculous because I've known of many different amateurs, of varying class of license, that were a***oles; it isn't specific to techs alone.
I never used CB lingo even when I used CB, communication should be direct and straight foward, not cluttered with unecessary verbage for the sake of fitting in, etc.
Again, I make the point to those that choose to get so worked up about code, on either side; time to start worrying about the level and quality of testing, and the knowledge gained and needed to be an amateur operator instead of getting upset about code alone. The 'CBization' of amateur radio will only come when the majority of people getting amateur licenses don't have the level of knowledge they should to advance the art, or don't have a desire to learn beyond what is basically a memorization test. Code, in that context, is meaningless and will not add to the value or skill of newer operators.

W3MIV

06-17-2004, 05:26 PM

Good grief. I go away to do some real work for a few days and look what happens!

Glad it ain't me what's drawin' the fire! Keep'n my head and butt low to the grunt.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

06-17-2004, 05:31 PM

Socialist plots... self-admitted trollers... fantastical creatures like Bigfoot and UFOs... name-calling and license-class bashing... oh, and MORSE CODE... man, this thread has it ALL!!

w5lda

06-17-2004, 05:38 PM

ka9fac

thats called catagorizing us lowly tech's.The saintly generals and the Godly extras that are doing all the crying seem to do that on a daily basis.And like you,they do not know me,they do not know my goals,etc.Seems like its always the same people that do all of the sniveling because they are pissed #that the next generation may not need to do what they had to do to acquire their license.As for personal attacks,it happens here every day through catagorizing when a saint or God
states "all the no code tech's" won't do this or can't do that because in their shallow minds we aren't smart enough to do it.To me that is a personal attack.You catch that Glen?So if it means i need to become an a**hole to upgrade,no thanks,i'll stay where i'm at.
A lowly no code tech And Glen,if you think this merits
banning me,so be it

Larry kd5vsg

KG4CGC

06-17-2004, 05:39 PM

Urination Competition.
Give it rest. Has it been 30 days yet? We all know what this does to people. Maybe we should have put this topic on hold for 90 days.
I have the best solution of all. The night before I go to upgrade, I am going to stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

OK! Now it's time to roll in, The Topic Killer!
We already know about Australia, I mean, that topic went on for how many pages? At least 736 some odd replies before it went into the dump. Tried to find it, it's gone. Skips from year 2004 straight to 2001. I know I was post 736 on that thread and I did it just to add to the feeding frenzy and to try to get it to "1000" replies. That was because it just got too ridiculous!
Please folks, unless we're just doing this to show the newbies on this site what a can of worms this topic can be and IS, it is time to move on and act locally to promote your stance, whatever it may be, on the code issue.
Thanks All,
Charles Chackal, KG4CGC

06-17-2004, 05:47 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (oklahomasteel @ June 17 2004,12:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The saintly generals [...][/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
... a saint, I AIN'T!! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Rather than get angry at those who are content to put certain people in one category and judge them from there, I just shake my head at the inevitable sadness that must result from living with such a stultified sense of reality. But some people need to categorize and label. If they didn't, their heads might implode if they try to wrap their minds around the fact that everyone's different and that we mostly defy convenient stereotypes... perhaps it's just a persona they effect online. Some people just like to poke the wasp's nest with a stick now and then.

ky5u

06-17-2004, 06:09 PM

Charles,

Respectfully, I feel the same about the dumb-a$$ political bickering. #Suggest you do the same thing I do. #Don't participate if you don't like it. Thanks.

COODY says:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If they didn't, their heads might implode if they try to wrap their minds around the fact that everyone's different and that we mostly defy convenient stereotypes[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

One stereotype would be:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some people just like to poke the wasp's nest with a stick now and then.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nothing like contradicting yourself.....

N8CPA

06-17-2004, 06:16 PM

Contentious Amateurs? OM no longer just stands for Old Man. On the internet, it's the Olympiad of Micturition! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

W3MIV

06-17-2004, 06:26 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8CPA @ June 17 2004,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Olympiad of Micturition[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are hereby awarded three points for meritorious use of vocabulary.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

06-17-2004, 06:29 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AG4YO @ June 17 2004,13:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nothing like contradicting yourself.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't think so- by pointing out that some people like to argue on Web forums, I am not labeling anyone in particular. It's practically a sport for some. That's okay though, since it's better to do it here than on the air, and I don't really take it seriously.

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 06:33 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg2hg @ June 17 2004,08:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K6BBC,

# # I don't look at code as the gatekeeper, or a filter.
No offense meant by my previous post. At present it is
just a requirement. You did what others have done. You
took the exams as required to obtain the license you
have. I do not, nor will not force the code down anyones
throat. If they prefer not to use it so be it. The only
thing I have to say is that just because I enjoy using
morse code does not label me as one that is ruining,
killing the hobby, nor keeping others from enjoying it.

# # I can not speak for the 1960's, 1970's nor the 1980's
when it comes to the decline of operators on the air. I
can say that I have enjoyed numerous conversations
on the air at varying times of the day/evening. No, the
bands are not over crowded, however there are people
out there to talk with.

# # Enjoy your day.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am sorry if I gave the impression that liking or using Morse code was somehow responsible for the death of Amateur Radio. That is not a connection I wish to make. I personally enjoy using CW, especially QRP. To me, it’s when radio feels like radio – very romantic. But, keeping it as a test requirement has no validity in this age. In fact, I believe it is a turn off. It’s like requiring all drivers to learn on a manual transmission – probably a good idea, but not really necessary. So I return to my earlier point, we must make ham radio more attractive. Which does not mean dumping down. The test does however need to be more appropriate to our times.

And my final point. We need a better entry-level license. The ARRL has it almost right with their new novice. If I were in charge, I would have included privileges on 20 meters and lowered the power to 20 watts – much like the VKs’ are doing. The problem with the Tech as an entry-level license is that it drops the operator on VHF. I would rather have my fingernails pulled by wild boars than be stuck on VHF.

K6BBC

ai4ep

06-17-2004, 06:48 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Is this ANOTHER " code / no-code " debate " ?? ?

Oh goody !!

Is this gonna be a debate where folks ACTUALLY say something NEW & DIFFERENT or use old lines from old debates from the past ??

Please tell me...I wanna know...and I wanna know NOW !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

See,, I have been waiting for ( x ) long to see some NEW words and one-liners & phrases that I have never seen before used in a debate......will I see it here ?

But you DO realize, that no matter who has the best " one - liner " or the " cutest phrase ", that it will not effect the FCC judgement on the matter...you folks DO already know that....don't you ?

Man, this is gonna be so much FUN !!
Seeing and being able to re-read all these NEW phrases and " one-liners " that have never been put in print before...this is totally awesome !!

....just another " GODly extra " ---ai4ep---

heck you KNOW them test aint all that hard if a 45 year old WHITE man from ALABAMA got to be EXTRA class,, that those tests can not be too hard...you know how dumb some of those " suthernirs " are !!

06-17-2004, 07:05 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ai4ep @ June 17 2004,13:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">heck you KNOW them test aint all that hard if a 45 year old WHITE man from ALABAMA got to be EXTRA class,, that those tests can not be too hard...you know how dumb some of those " suthernirs " are !![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The electronics theory portion of the Extra study material is currently too hard for me, and I'm even a "northerner" (whatever that gets me). I'm not trying for the Extra until I understand the material which, at the tortoiselike rate I'm progressing, may be never. When I'm on the air, I don't care who's Extra, General, Advanced... I'm just glad to find someone to talk to.

K3UD

06-17-2004, 07:21 PM

Wow, This thread certainly put some life back into the the forum!

Just a few days ago there were posts about it becoming boring, and how it had changed. It is amazing how fast the thread developed, and with all the good stuff that gets the blood flowing.

Did Glen end the code thread ban early? If so it worked http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

73
George
K3UD

ky5u

06-17-2004, 07:53 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8CPA @ June 17 2004,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Olympiad of Micturition[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
MIV: You are hereby awarded three points for meritorious use of vocabulary.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You are both awarded the Medal for Micturitous Conduct!

And your award is: #FREE CW LESSONS!!

http://www.qsl.net/ag4yo/index_files/telegraph.gif

KG4YUV

06-17-2004, 08:35 PM

Once again, to all you fat lazy OF's who sit around and whine and piss about how "code is too hard, wah wah wah" then go watch your singing fish flop and sing ----

I'M 15 YEARS OLD! I PASSED MY CODE NO PROBLEM! And if I'm not mistaken, there's an ->8<- YEAR OLD EXTRA CLASS out there somewhere.... You should be ASHAMED of yourselves for trying to down the great American tradition of CW!!!

I love it! I enjoy it! You're not even giving it a friggin' chance!!!

It's times like these that I wish Steve (W3SY) were still here.... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif # He'd set these guys straight.....

....I call on all other young hams out there that have passed their code to join me, and I call on the others that haven't passed it to learn it and pass it, so we can ALL LAUGH at these OF's who are whining about it!! If WE can do it, ANYONE can!

And as for the privledges that I worked so hard to get on my own... I'll be damned if these guys get to use them by doing absolutely nothing...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

...Heh, I guess I needed to steam a little http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Come on people, it's our hobby, let's not let it go to waste.....

ae4fa

06-17-2004, 08:38 PM

I thought there was a moratorium on this debate . . .

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 08:45 PM

K6BBC,
Tony,your comment about the problem with the entry level tech being dropped on vhf,as an undesirable feature of the license. You have been around long enough to have seen some of the original Technician Licensee's,true they had to take the General Class theory test,but most of them ,with a few exceptions,went on to either upgrade to attain HF priviledges or stayed on VHF and UHF and experimented and pushed the frontiers upward.Most ,or at least the ones I have met,were not born with the electronics theory or the Skill to operate CW,they acquired #those abilities so that they operate Amateur Radio the way it was intended,and is justified under Part 97.1.Here we go with those labels again,those exceptions mostly took the technician test because it was only 5 wpm CW and the General Class was 13 wpm,most complained about having to take the General Class theory which was then lowered in scope later on,then of course the complaints about the 5 wpm code so the NCT was introduced.My point is NOTHING but their own lack of a challenge,and personal drive prevented the newer technicians from learning the theory and the basic communications skill of CW to enable them to throw off the yoke of 2 meter Repeaters and contribute to the state of the Art as did their predecessors.Serious experimenting on VHF/UHF requires the skill of CW and a full understanding of not only the fundamentals of electronics,but advanced knowledge of antennas and wave propagation,they are full and respected Hams in all sense of the term. Don't judge them by the more common place NCT who sits around on their wide bottoms complaining that they aren't allowed to use some one else's repeater.

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 09:10 PM

KG4YUV,
Steady there big fella,I guess from where you sit everyone over 21 is an OF, but if you look at the average age of Radio Amateurs today you will find it is in the order of 55 years.I am sure you in your enthusiasm meant OM and not OF/OT. OF and OT are usually reserved for those who have served out the 10 year apprenticeship and most have tacked on a few more years for good measure.Congratulations on meeting all the Qualifications of being a full fledged Amateur. Some of us have some difficulty remembering in detail how it was at 15, but I hope by the time you reach OF status you will have as many good memories to recall as most of us have. Good Luck es Best DX # 73, # ORV

W0LC

06-17-2004, 09:40 PM

Unfortunately, age has little to do with learning code. Motivation, time and effort is more of the real issue. Just how serious one is about achieving it will determine the outcome. Funny I don't recall reading much on how it was such an obstacle 20 plus years ago (or less) when the speed was 13 and 20 WPM. Then again, most individuals I met that wanted a license really put their nose to the grind stone.

Times have changed.

K6UEY

06-17-2004, 09:51 PM

WØLC,
Yes for some it was a challenge,but you are right it was another time with totally different goals and attitudes. CW did not come easy for me,but it was standing in the way of upgrading,so it took a few more trips to the FCC field office than it did for some,but when you have a sincere desire nothing can stand in your way.Too bad to because it looks like our generation used up all the desire and sincerety and willingness to work and earn a priviledge. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

kg4kww

06-17-2004, 09:51 PM

N1OBN--- Thanks for the good news. Now if only Mr. Powell will get up off of his big fat duff and fellow suite this would put the US into the 21st century.

N1OBN do you think it will happen before or by years end? Has Bush told him to wait until after the election? Will Monica have to get down on her knees for us?

Please N1OBN, we need some answers. Can you supply them?

My congrats to the land down under for doing the right thing.

Remember CODE STINKS, JUST LIKE TOILET PAPER AFTER A GOOD WIPE JOB!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

W0LC

06-17-2004, 10:32 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ June 17 2004,14:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WØLC,
Yes for some it was a challenge,but you are right it was another time with totally different goals and attitudes. CW did not come easy for me,but it was standing in the way of upgrading,so it took a few more trips to the FCC field office than it did for some,but when you have a sincere desire nothing can stand in your way.Too bad to because it looks like our generation used up all the desire and sincerety and willingness to work and earn a priviledge. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will admit that it took me two tries to pass the extra code. Seemed so fast at the time. Over time, using it and copying it, it seems terribly slow now! Hard to understand that, but like anything, repetition helps one learn something without their knowing it!

Glad you got through it. I have met over the years, housewives of friends that mastered it, a few old timers (90+ years old) that got back into the hobby after years of absence, and even very young kids that mastered it.

It really isn't that difficult, as long as you keep with it. Whatever I suppose.

Look for you sometime on the bands!

SSB or CW!

06-17-2004, 11:15 PM

(DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to gain pats on the back for the following-- I'm only using my own example to illustrate the point I hope I make at the end.)

I am one of the few people I know of who not only didn't have a problem learning CW, but it took me only 2 weeks to do so. I know this is unusual from talking with other hams, many of whom had a very difficult time learning the code.

I think the reason for this anomaly is that I have a facility for learning languages. I don't know why this is; I imagine it's hardwired into my brain. My mom told me I could read the newspaper by the time I was three, and I don't recall the period of time when I actually learned how to read. I know three other languages besides English, though I seldom use them nowadays. These languages were easy for me to learn too, and one of them is considered by linguists to be one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. I don't know what it is about me and languages, but it just seems to "flow" without much effort.

Now, when it comes to electronic theory, I seem to have a difficult time getting my brain around a lot of it. I have a hard time imagining what's going on in a circuit. Instead of merely memorizing formulas and such (although I know I have to do that too), I want to know what's going on in a circuit at the smallest levels. I suppose there are some who wonder why I care so much about it. I look with great wonder and admiration on people who know electronics theory inside and out, and wonder if I'll ever know as much as they've forgotten.

So , the point. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and I know that I'll have to work harder to "get" electronics theory to a working knowledge. I wish it was as easy as the code test or languages are for me, but it isn't and probably never will be. I have two choices: either I learn it, or I don't. If it is important enough to take the time, I will learn it.

K9STH

06-17-2004, 11:21 PM

It has been about a month since I put the moritorium about waiting a month before starting the code / no-code thing up again.

However, every time the "debate" starts again, I suddenly remember why I put moritoriums on the subject in the first place!

Frankly, no one can come up with anything new to say about the subject! The same ideas get posted again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again . . . . ad naseum!

The horse is so dead that the maggots can't find anything to eat, Testor's won't even consider rendering it into glue, the hide is gone, and the bones are crumbling into dust!

But, a very few people seem to get their "jollies" by commenting on the subject again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again . . . . ad naseum!

Unfortunately, since I have to try to keep some sense of order in the Talk & Opinions forum I have to read the posts! Frankly, they are already starting to get personal. Therefore, this will be the only warning that I will give. If you cannot post without getting personal, then prepare to suffer my wrath! I am very tired of trying to keep order on this subject. It is not the subject, but many of the comments have become just plain assinine (on both sides of the question!).

I don't want to hear ANYTHING about my "shutting down" the code / no-code thread when "things" are not going "my way"! Frankly, I don't give a "you know what" about how the discussion goes on this subject. No one's comments on this site are going to have one iota's influence on what the FCC finally decides! All that people are doing is posting to see what kind of reaction that they can get from other participants about the subject. The same people say the same things again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again . . . . ad naseum!

As for myself, and the vast majority of participants on this site, I don't give a hoot about what is being done in Australia, the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Outer Mongolia, or where ever! Yes, we do have a few participants who do live in countries other than the United States or Canada. Yes what is done in those countries has an effect on them personally. But, they represent a VERY small absolute number let alone percentage of participation.

If those participants in a particular country want to comment on what is being done in their country, then let them do so. But, for people in other countries to comment makes no sense at all except to add to the poster's idea of justification for what is to be done in the United States of America and posessions. Frankly, I don't care what is being done in other countries! They have their regulations and we have ours. If you don't like our regulations, then you are most certainly free to emmigrate to a country that has regulations that you favor. Of course, you just "might" have to give up a whole lot of other rights and privileges that you now have being a citizen of the United States of America!

Glen, K9STH

w0aew

06-17-2004, 11:28 PM

Maybe CW will become a cult thing and attract curious participants who want to be with the "in" crowd?

A CW test in this day and age makes about as much sense as testing people for knowledge of American Morse who want to get network certification.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 11:49 PM

GLEN! Lighten up! I don’t understand why you are getting so worked up by these free exchange ideas. So there is nothing new. Who cares? How does it really affect your life? You got to let it go a little.

But let’s talk about me. Today, I’ve been called an OF by a 15 year old. My life is complete. I’ve closed the circle.

K6UEY – there is really nothing you have said that I can disagree with. Your thought are put together well and succinct. My strong belief however is we are going to all have to change our attitudes about how we find on the bands. I’m an optimist and believe restructuring will bring many new hams we will all be proud to call friends – if we keep an open mind.

All the best to everyone here – even the 15 year old who called the rest of us Ofs.

K6BBC, feeling the love

K6BBC

06-17-2004, 11:50 PM

kn6z

06-18-2004, 12:07 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4YUV @ June 17 2004,13:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Once again, to all you fat lazy OF's...

SNIP

You should be ASHAMED of yourselves...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If anyone should be ashamed of anything, it is you, young man -- for your manners, and the OFs around here who taught them to you.

K8YS

06-18-2004, 12:11 AM

DING DING

Did I just hear the bell being rung on a bitter "adult" by a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD KID?

k4uug

06-18-2004, 12:24 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4kww @ June 17 2004,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please N1OBN, we need some answers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
2005 was the date given for the new Band Plan change to take place everyone wins in the new band plan.Only extra class will be required to take a 5 wpm morse code test.Also some power out puts will be reduced from 1,500 watts to 1,000 watts,but who cares I like 100 watts.just fine. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

06-18-2004, 12:41 AM

I have a bumpersticker that says: "Teenagers: The reason that some animals eat their young"

ai4ep

06-18-2004, 12:58 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif 2005...heck we still got over half of 2004 to live through

terrorist threatening to hit shopping malls

bombings at oil refineries making GAS prices go back up ( any excuse to raise prices...or...no excuse at all )

unemployment not really falling to amount to any thing

and you folks are waiting for that " magic " moment when you can talk on HF with out psssing a morse code test !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

What are your plans for June / July of 2005...sell out ?
Nothing gained when all your other neighbors you got away from when you upgraded to N C T status and they stayed behind on the ole CB...now they can equal you with out any pressure at all... be lots of " urban legands " all over the HF frequencies !!

Congrats to the 15 year old that passed the test...you did good http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Goes to show what a person CAN do when they actually WANT to.

btw...met some one on the road a few days back...heard them on 147.240 repeater in Huntville, but they were in the same county I live in...so went driving in some one elses vehicle...met ( some one ) on the road but I was just a passenger and had no control over the vehicle stopping or moving...but WE still met ( some one )... the driver ,of the vehicle I was in... she was not impressed with (some one ) driving on her side of the stripes in the middle of the road...that was what really made ( us ) pay attention to ( some one ) vehicle.... so ( some one ) got some attention whether ( some one ) like it or not. The county cops were about a half mile behind ( some one ) , figured they may have already got a call about erratic driving habits. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

cam corders...arent they wonderful ?

73

--- ai4ep --- ( & the driver ) { she wants SOME recognition } (( shucks she may have just typed this up !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ))

ae4fa

06-18-2004, 01:21 AM

Glen, for the love of mercy please shut this down. #We're down to having amateurs call other amateurs "punks" because they are younger and have a different opinion.

Others:
Why is it so important to you to win a war of words in a forum that has no influence whatsoever on what the FCC does?

Here's a scary thought:
Imagine the Commissioners getting bored one night and reading thru this crap. #Were I a non-ham (which they all are) in that position, I would immediately decide that amateur radio is one service that is no longer justifiable.

Is that what you want as a result of your pursuit of ego?

I have my own opinions on this subject, and have expressed them here before. #But I have resolved never to do so again because it just invites divisive hostility from both sides. #What I had/have to say about this matter for the last while - and in the future - was/will be directed to where it counts - the FCC.

K6BBC

06-18-2004, 01:22 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ai4ep @ June 17 2004,17:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif 2005...heck we still got over half of 2004 to live through

terrorist threatening to hit shopping malls

bombings at oil refineries making GAS prices go back up ( any excuse to raise prices...or...no excuse at all )

unemployment not really falling to amount to any thing

and you folks are waiting for that " magic " moment when you can talk on HF with out psssing a morse code test !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

What are your plans for June / July of 2005...sell out ?
Nothing gained when all your other neighbors you got away from when you upgraded to N C T status and they stayed behind on the ole CB...now they can equal you with out any pressure at all... #be lots of " urban legands " all over the HF frequencies !!

Congrats to the 15 year old that passed the test...you did good http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # #Goes to show what a person CAN do when they actually WANT to.

btw...met some one on the road a few days back...heard them on 147.240 repeater in Huntville, but they were #in the same county I live in...so went driving in some one elses vehicle...met ( some one ) on the road but I was just a passenger and had no control over the vehicle stopping or moving...but WE still met ( some one )... the driver ,of the vehicle I was in... she was not impressed with (some one ) driving on her side of the stripes in the middle of the road...that was what really made ( us ) pay attention to ( some one ) #vehicle.... so ( some one ) got some attention whether ( some one ) #like it or not. The county cops were about a half mile behind ( some one ) , figured they may have already got a call about erratic driving habits. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

cam corders...arent they wonderful ?

73

--- #ai4ep #--- ( & the driver ) { she wants SOME recognition #} #(( shucks she may have just typed this up !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #))[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He's kidding.... right?

kc2jga

06-18-2004, 01:22 AM

Has anyone heard anything about the other countries dropping the code. What I mean is, after they dropped the requirement, how have they been doing as far as the No codes working HF? I personally haven't heard or seen anything negative about it. What say you???

w5lda

06-18-2004, 01:25 AM

k6bbc,,,i have a small porcelain jar encrypted with
"ashes of obnoxious children". wanna borrow it?

Larry kd5vsg

ai4ep

06-18-2004, 01:32 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ...is that small porcelain jar sitting by that book of " wars the FRENCH have won " ?

K6BBC

06-18-2004, 01:32 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae4fa @ June 17 2004,18:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Glen, for the love of mercy please shut this down. #We're down to having amateurs call other amateurs "punks" because they are younger and have a different opinion.

Others:
Why is it so important to you to win a war of words in a forum that has no influence whatsoever on what the FCC does?

Here's a scary thought:
Imagine the Commissioners getting bored one night and reading thru this crap. #Were I a non-ham (which they all are) in that position, I would immediately decide that amateur radio is one service that is no longer justifiable.

Is that what you want as a result of your pursuit of ego?

I have my own opinions on this subject, and have expressed them here before. #But I have resolved never to do so again because it just invites divisive hostility from both sides. #What I have to say about this matter for the last while - and in the future - is/will be directed to where it counts - the FCC.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If this is so disturbing to your psyche, why are you here?

ai4ep

06-18-2004, 01:49 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Some one on a 2 meter repeater is attempting to tell another that a " major cause of tvi is...upside down tv antenna s "

I hope these folks arent serious !!

One station is seriously attempting to tell another station that " They found out that the reason for his interference on his neighbors television set was an upside down tv UHF bow tie tv antenna ".

Amazing what you can hear when 2 N C T are talking ... and I thought I had heard it all !!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

9V1VV

06-18-2004, 01:59 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kc2jga Posted on June 17 2004,18:22
Has anyone heard anything about the other countries dropping the code. What I mean is, after they dropped the requirement, how have they been doing as far as the No codes working HF? I personally haven't heard or seen anything negative about it. What say you??? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We dropped the code in Singapore about 8 months ago. This tiny country with a ham polulation of 60, of which only about 10 are active, may perhaps be considered a microcosm of the wider ham world. Since the code was dropped, about 8 young hams now have HF access but we have not heard very much from them. I beleive they are finding it difficult to get a signal out on SSB without inducing TVI, or the antenna restrictions here prevent them from getting on the air. For the most part the hams here use CW with one intrepid RTTY pioneer. We had a very enthusiastic PSK31 op, Sasi / 9V1SM who has since left for Australia. We do far better with CW and some of the digital modes than SSB, under our antenna and power restrictions. I fear that the newcomers to HF have been dicouraged by a lack of QSO's or perhaps they don't see any great thrill in SSB or the digital modes after all, or they are too busy in their careers to spend time concentrating on how to make ham radio work for them. They don't show up at the club meetings much although they used to be very active. *sigh*.....Perhaps now that they have what they wanted, it is not as exciting as they thought it would be.

ai4ep

06-18-2004, 02:08 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif does that mean that " bragging rights " have disappeared ?

{ gee, did any one think of that part ? }

06-18-2004, 02:10 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ai4ep @ June 17 2004,21:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif does that mean that " bragging rights " have disappeared ?

{ #gee, #did any one think of that part ? }[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Er, what?

ai4ep

06-18-2004, 03:09 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif well...time to " ride around " for a while...see how many post are made to prove a point !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

06-18-2004, 03:52 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ June 16 2004,18http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6bbc @ June 17 2004,01:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Frankly, I think all of those who are arguing for the retention of the code requirement are out of their heads. #What legitimate reason is there for keeping it? #NONE. #It just a bunch of old geezers holding on to what they believe the hobby is. #Well I got news for you, that hobby is long gone. #Listen to the bands. #Activity is way down and most hams on the air today are old and getting old. #Who is going to be left in 20 years? #No-one. #The hobby will be extinct. #But still, the die-hards cling to the code – that uniquely hamdom form of hazing. #Frankly, there are not a lot of people to chat with on the radio anymore. #The hobby was more vibrant 25 years ago. #We need new blood, plain and simple. #So guys, get over it. #The day of no code is coming – and thank God it is.

K6BBC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
K6BBC WELL SAID THANKS! <!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know I"m new...................but I don't understand all the hoopla over CW. Things change.......transister radios are gone..........reel to reel tape decks........8 tracks......and the poor ole laser discs. Why is CW different? Maybe we should go back to smoke signals, if we don't expect or except advancement. I know I have no right to comment on this because I"m new............but it just seems silly to me. Can't we all just get along? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

PS I'd still like to learn code , just to show myself that I
can do it and move up to General