Gas Guzzlers Should Pay more

[KA8NCR]

They do pay more by the simple virtue that their vehicle gets crummy gas economy.

Rest assured, economics are starting to kick-in. I've seen 3 Ford Expeditions out in front of their owner's starter-castles with FOR SALE signs on them. Even the rich and stupid are finding fueling those suckers is a tad expensive.

[n3ijw]

Well there already is a gas guzzler tax, and we already buy more gas as NCR said...

Here's an idea: I'll pay more for gas if you people with teensy cars quit asking me to help you move #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3ijw @ May 19 2004,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well there already is a gas guzzler tax, and we already buy more gas as NCR said...

Here's an idea: I'll pay more for gas if you people with teensy cars quit asking me to help you move http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think trucks are exempt from that tax though, as are SUV's.

And I don't want to have you help me move; that means I'm carrying my stuff myself and that's just too much work.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I like it when the folks in the BIG suc / trucks pass me then get stopped at the red light a mile further down the road, then it turns GREEN just as I start slowing down to it ( never have to stop )....hee hee hee

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,18:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ May 20 2004,01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They do pay more by the simple virtue that their vehicle gets crummy gas economy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My Point is, they DON'T pay enough. The excessive usage still forces me to pay more (because they use more) then I should have to because of his vehicles poor mileage. I figure if my vehicle gets 25 MPG and his gets 12.5 MPG if I pay $2.50 per gallon, he should have to pay $5.00 per gallon. Then they will end up scrapping all those pieces of crap!!!
The people that buy and drive gas Guzzlers are very inconsiderate to the rest of us as far as I am concerned. I really hate it when a &quot;tree Hugger&quot; drives an SUV. Kind of an Oxi-Moron !&lt;sp&gt;
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So you wanna open that can of worms? I think there's no shortage of people that would say that since you're throwing electrical energy into the air, you should pay more for electricity because that could be used to heat some baby's formula.

[n3ijw]

That doesn't make any sense. A gallon of gas costs $X. How many of those gallons I buy, or what I do with it after I buy it is nobody elses business but mine. Same with electricity, I pay for what I use, simple.

[KC8QMU]

Well,


I just bought a brand new Ford Ranger ext. cab 4X4.

It has the 4.0L V-6 and averages in the high teens to about maybe 20 MPG. For the power and torque it has, and considering it's a 4X4, I'm not going to complain.

I guess I should be PENALIZED for driving a vehicle that's practical for me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Gee, my diamond plated tool box full of tools would really look silly bolted to the top of a Honda Civic! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

That's really funny, I'm usually willing to pull small cars such as yours out of snowbanks, muddy fields, ditches, and I usually am willing to help a friend move something on the weekend for free. But yet I should pay more for a gallon of gas because I have a truck and you drive a little car.

By the way, the reason you see W. and other government officials riding around in Suburbans is because they are BULLETPROOF. Let's see how well the typical high revving 4cyl car with little low end torque moves once the cladding is added to it!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

You can't beat those small DOHC 4 cyl powered cars for commuting and getting great gas mileage, but for anything more you just need a truck or a van.

I roll my eyes just as much as anyone else when I see a soccer mom driving some monster SUV while talking on the phone and yelling at her screaming kids at 15 MPH over the speed limit, but the opinion of making someone else pay more per gallon of gas than you because they have a bigger vehicle than you is absurd.

[WA5KRP]

JEEZO-WEEZO, somebody wants more government regulation?
http://rock103.com/crew/jokes/jokes-icon-10.gif
Clever.



The market place has a way of taking care of this kind of issue. #




WA5KRP
Texas

[KC8QMU]

Seeing that gas prices are what they are, exactly how much do you think people should pay, considering a very large percentage of what you pay per gallon of gas is tax to begin with?

Anyone here do photoshopping? Someone should photoshop a truck toolbox bolted to the top of a Honda (with the roof consequently dented in, of course), trying to trudge uphill through half a foot of snow on the road during an Ohio winter! Add some 10 ft sticks of conduit hanging out of it while you're at it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KC8QMU]

Oh BTW, I've already had to use the 4 wheel drive to go through a ton of mud because my girfriend so ingeniously buried her car in an unpaved parking lot, used it on a trail that goes 1 1/2 mi. through the woods, and believe me, after having only 2 wheel drive trucks for the past 5 years, it's gonna be nice not fishtailing up hills or getting stuck when the old peg legged rear end breaks loose on a little mud or snow. I never bought a 4X4 before because of the gas mileage, but once I seen that this one was only rated at about 1-2 MPG less than my previous, almost identical truck, I went for it. The added suspension and heavier duty components also make for a much better off pavement ride. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC8QMU]

BTW, no it doesn't have to be a Honda, I just use that because I think they make a nice small car.

And yes, some cars up here look like crap after 5 or so winters, but usually because their owners havent been to the car wash enough to blast the salt off. I've never had a problem being that I take care of my stuff. (I can't STAND the sight of salt on a vehical..... makes me cringe http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ May 20 2004,02:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you wanna open that can of worms? I think there's no shortage of people that would say that since you're throwing electrical energy into the air, you should pay more for electricity because that could be used to heat some baby's formula.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well You do have a point but I think your really stretching it there.
So, Since I run 100 watts and not a &quot;KILOWATT&quot; will that help the scenario a bit?
Perhaps (by your suggestion) we should not allow anything above 100 watts or even 5 watts, if we can all have the same power levels applied equally. But YES, I will pay more for my electricity if that is what it will take to support my enjoyment and my Hobby. Will the SUV and Truck owners also be willing to pay more??
As far as warming baby Formula either use your arm pit or STOP having all those babies. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm trying to use hyperbole to show a point. The point is, I don't think forcing someone to pay a higher price because their vehicle gets poorer mileage is the way to go. While I agree with the principle, the problem is that just opens the door to similar policies.

The last thing we need is the government telling people they need to pay more for fuel, electricity, food, whatever because of some social policy.

Fortunately, the greatest motivator for people not driving gas hogs is the current price of fuel.

[KC9CFB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ May 19 2004,13:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"># # #Gee, my diamond plated tool box full of tools would really look silly bolted to the top of a Honda Civic! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don’t be down-talking the Hondas! My big brother is an engineer for them… Actually, I don’t think Honda’s hybrid-electric cars look all that bad…I believe they get about 47 mpg. If you just need a daily driver to cart your kids to and from school and yourself to and from work, then it seems like alternative fuel cars are the way to go, especially with the way gas prices are heading. Oh, by the way, Honda is coming out with a truck, though I think it’s going to be another type of “I drive a truck to look like a manly man but don’t use it for any sort of actual heavy-duty purpose” sort of vehicle. My mom’s Ford Escape is as much of an off-road vehicle as the Honda truck is a load-hauler.

‘Nuff said.

[n3ijw]

Not fair? Ok, let's ignore the obvious technical, logistic, and legal problems with tracking the fuel economy of every car on the road...

1. I pay more taxes by buying more gas.
2. I pay more property taxes.
3. I pay more insurance, even though I have a clean record.
4. I can carry more passengers and cargo farther per gallon of gas than a tiny car.
5.#I have owned my truck for 12 years while younger cars get sent to the scrapyard. Wasteful!

Well you are right! That hardly seems fair at all.

Part of living in a free capitalist society is we have to put up with things we don't like, which includes supply and demand issues.

I'll pass on more government-anything, regardless of gas prices!

[n0ov]

News flash -- gas guzzlers do pay more.

Before we start taking people based on the vehicles they drive answer me this.

Where are all those hybrid cars that are so fuel efficient? There are a few models on the road for a premium price, however you don't see the auto companies pumping these puppies out very quick.

Anyone ask why.

Here's a related question -- anyone have a hybrid and hooked up amateur radio equipment? If so, any challenges (voltage, QRM) unique to these vehicles?

This is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever read. I mean everything was said already really. People with bigger gas guzzler do pay more simply because they use more gas. Plus property tax and insurance. They pay enough as it is. All this being said I drive a nissan altima and get 30mpg and I still think this is a stupid idea. Let's keep in mind this is still supposedly a free country not nazi germany.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ May 19 2004,18:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well,


# # #I just bought a brand new Ford Ranger ext. cab 4X4.

# # # It has the 4.0L V-6 and averages in the high teens to about maybe 20 MPG. #For the power and torque it has, and considering it's a 4X4, I'm not going to complain.

# # #I guess I should be PENALIZED for driving a vehicle that's practical for me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

# # #Gee, my diamond plated tool box full of tools would really look silly bolted to the top of a Honda Civic! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

# # #That's really funny, I'm usually willing to pull small cars such as yours out of snowbanks, muddy fields, ditches, and I usually am willing to help a friend move something on the weekend for free. #But yet I should pay more for a gallon of gas because I have a truck and you drive a little car. #

# # #By the way, the reason you see W. and other government officials riding around in Suburbans is because they are BULLETPROOF. #Let's see how well the typical high revving 4cyl car with little low end torque moves once the cladding is added to it!
# # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

# # You can't beat those small DOHC 4 cyl powered cars for commuting and getting great gas mileage, but for anything more you just need a truck or a van.

# # I roll my eyes just as much as anyone else when I see a soccer mom driving some monster SUV while talking on the phone and yelling at her screaming kids at 15 MPH over the speed limit, but the opinion of making someone else pay more per gallon of gas than you because they have a bigger vehicle than you is absurd.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Which is why in the region of the US I live in, it's essential to have a truck/SUV. #I have a 2000 Chevy Malibu LS and it SUCKS when you try to drive it in the snow. #This part is hilly here in the Omaha Metro area and it's hard to drive a car in the snow.

Try driving your car in about 12 inches of snow then turn sharply left into a driveway that is not shoveled yet. #Try then to get into the driveway and see how far you get. #That is what I deal and frankly I would prefer to have a 4 x 4 truck or an SUV (I do have a 02 Durango but the XYL drives it with 1 child) to get around. #I drive the car, but the XYL gets the SUV.

These last 2 questions are for N6WK;

So why should I have to pay more because it doesn't have as good a gas mileage option as you have. #Why should I have to pay more based on what you think I should? #

Oh wait, someone already does that for you and they're called politicians who like to tax me to death.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,20:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Think about it, You pay a certain amount per KWH for your electricity, but if you go over the set standard (baseline) amount, The price per KWH goes up. We should be able to do the same thing to those who guzzle gasoline. #It Can Work!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It's called gasoline tax and you obviously have a beef with truck &amp; SUV's.

So when did you start buying into Arianna Huffington's argument against SUV's? &quot;Because they support terrorism.&quot; Yeah right...

Please stop trying to sugarcoat this any other way than the socialist enviropinko elites opinions on truck/SUV's.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,18:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO, It does make sense. If you use more, then there is less supply for the rest of us. It is simply &quot;Supply and Demand&quot; #The more demand (excessive use by SUV's) causes less supply and the Price goes up for everyone... NOT FAIR!! #If SUV's didn't use so much, the supply would be greater and the Price would go down for all of us! Plain and Simple.
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your logic is flawed, you blame it on trucks &amp; SUV's, and you want to push a socialist agenda. How quaint...

Not fair? Puhleeease...

[w7act]

The State of Oregon has the right idea they are studying a plan where the state will charge a graduated Highway User Fee for the socalled Hybrids as they are using less fuel therefore they are not paying their fair share for the cost for the use of State's Highways. They use the State's Highways, but are not contributing monies for maintenance and upgrades to the State's highway infastructure, in a nutshell the Hybrids are taking a free ride on the states highway system while the non hybrid drivers are footing the bill. The state needs to carry this plan further by calculating the User Fee in accordance with the Federal Highway Administrations expected MPG rating figures the higher the MPG rating the higher the user tax.[B]

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ May 20 2004,05:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,18:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO, It does make sense. If you use more, then there is less supply for the rest of us. It is simply &quot;Supply and Demand&quot; #The more demand (excessive use by SUV's) causes less supply and the Price goes up for everyone... NOT FAIR!! #If SUV's didn't use so much, the supply would be greater and the Price would go down for all of us! Plain and Simple.
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your logic is flawed, you blame it on trucks &amp; SUV's, and you want to push a socialist agenda. #How quaint...

Not fair?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, If you removed all the SUV's and poor mileage trucks, wouldn't there be more supply to fill the demand??? Answer is &quot;YES&quot;
I am not a socialist or a Nazi. I just think this is a good Idea.
You obviously own either a truck or a gas guzzling SUV. #I feel bad for the poor decision you made to buy such a vehicle, but you could sell it before Everyone wises up to the fact that they are LOSER vehicles.
Puhleeease... #It is actually spelled &quot;Please&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Wait a minute... #What about all those 18 wheelers out there who bring goods to your local whatever store that you need to fulfill basic needs? #What about those trains who haul long cars full of various items? #They take a lot of fuel to run...

Shouldn't we make them pay more too?

I think my wife and I made a good decision. #Stop whining because you couldn't afford one of those gas hogs you're so bent on wanting me to pay more in gas for.

Even if you're not a socialist, you're promoting the same viewpoint they are. #Did you give that much thought? #You are promoting the same liberal agenda like it or not.

You don't live in a snowbelt area like I do and frankly that in of itself was a good decision as well to have a SUV. #Get caught in a snowstorm or blizzard (-20 to -30 windchills) for that matter in your little car and see how difficult it quickly becomes when you get stuck and that SUV or 4x4 truck is trudging right on by.

By the way... #I know how to spell please WK, I intentionally did that. #Get off your high horse and look past my satire.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are correct, My Car (and who said it was little?) probably wouldn't do well off road in a blizzard but then again, I don't plan on going into a blizzard with my car. If I were going into a blizzard, I would Buy a 4X4 and I would expect to pay more for gasoline then the rest of the people beause I made the decision to buy the gas Guzzling 4X4 (or SUV) in the first place. I certainly wouldn't expect others to foot the Bill for my decision. I also figured you knew how to spell please, I just wanted to remove the Sargasiom.. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #oh thats right you called it Satire.. sorry
By the way, I don't even Own a horse so I can't get off it...
Gordon
N6WK
.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WK

As I stated... I live in a snowbelt region with very unforgiving weather in the wintertime, that is what it is like here. Having an SUV or 4x4 truck here is a wise decision. We went with a Durango and felt good about buying one because they at least had a third row of seats when we got the '02 model.

As far as the horse statement, I see through your satire or Sargasiom. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AB8RU]

Whine, Whine, Whine, Whine, Whine, Whine let me say there are companies that has a spendable budget to promote their stations drive in Hummers, also I seen a Hummer with a SNG Uplinker pertty cool.

Michigan has a Plate fee for Bigger cars, as well New Cars as well.

I can say the OPEC has you people fighting sheesh !

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,18<!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ May 20 2004,01:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They do pay more by the simple virtue that their vehicle gets crummy gas economy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My Point is, they DON'T pay enough. The excessive usage still forces me to pay more (because they use more) then I should have to because of his vehicles poor mileage. I figure if my vehicle gets 25 MPG and his gets 12.5 MPG if I pay $2.50 per gallon, he should have to pay $5.00 per gallon. Then they will end up scrapping all those pieces of crap!!!
The people that buy and drive gas Guzzlers are very inconsiderate to the rest of us as far as I am concerned. I really hate it when a &quot;tree Hugger&quot; drives an SUV. Kind of an Oxi-Moron !&lt;sp&gt;
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey! What a great idea!

And we could expand on that idea and make rich people pay more tax too!
And smart people would have to pay an IQ tax beacuse they have a greater potential to get rich.
And a beauty tax for good looking ladies.
And a sports tax for those who can run faster.
And of course, a tax on those who have bigger and better radios or antennas or more dx cards in their pile.

Heck this way we could make all those folks who feel like they are the only &quot;normal&quot; people feel real good by making some one else &quot;PAY&quot;.

Yep.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,22:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ May 20 2004,06http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are correct, My Car (and who said it was little?) probably wouldn't do well off road in a blizzard but then again, I don't plan on going into a blizzard with my car. If I were going into a blizzard, I would Buy a 4X4 and I would expect to pay more for gasoline then the rest of the people beause I made the decision to buy the gas Guzzling 4X4 (or SUV) in the first place. I certainly wouldn't expect others to foot the Bill for my decision. I also figured you knew how to spell please, I just wanted to remove the Sargasiom.. #<!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #oh thats right you called it Satire.. sorry
By the way, I don't even Own a horse so I can't get off it...
Gordon
N6WK
.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WK

As I stated... #I live in a snowbelt region with very unforgiving weather in the wintertime, that is what it is like here. #Having an SUV or 4x4 truck here is a wise decision. #We went with a Durango and felt good about buying one because they at least had a third row of seats when we got the '02 model.

As far as the horse statement, I see through your satire or Sargasiom. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Chad, At least we understand each other and I agree with the &quot;3rd&quot; seat.. #yes, if I lived in the Snow belt as you, I am sure I would have a 4X4 also. I understand, I just am spending a few minutes on my soap box. I hope you understand it is nothing personal.
If you were able to see all the SUV's and 4X4's here in southern california that have no purpose other then status, I am sure you would understand my point of view. I don't mean to offend you.
Best to you and Your family
Gordon
N6WK.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will agree that if you have one, just to have one then you don't need it. #Frankly if I was where you were at then I would still get a truck, but have purposes for it.

Things like hauling dirt and whatnot for exterior improvements to my flowerbeds or around the yard. #Haul lumber for do-it-yourself improvements. #But if I were to get anything, I think I would have a minivan for kids, or get a nice sporty 4-door sedan.

You didn't really offend me, but was bothered with the pay more for fuel issue. #That's all... #Have a good one!
73

[KM5FL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 18 2004,18:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have read a lot lately about what to do about our &quot;HIGH&quot; gas prices. #Well I have a suggestion, #Why not make those that have gas guzzling vehicles Pay More?? #I mean come on, so many people by &quot;SUV&quot;'s and trucks that get TERRIBLE mileage, Why not make them pay More per gallon. After all, it is partly because of their excessive consumption that the demand is so high causing the rest of us that have fuel efficient cars to pay more. I don't think it is fair to the rest of us to support the guy driving the Hummer or any other gas guzzling piece of crap SUV (while on his cell phone I might add). I really think that those who drive the gas guzzlers should pay more and rightly so! #If your vehicle gets less then say 24 or 25 MPG then you should be penalized by how much below that figure your vehicle complies.
Just an Idea but then again, it will probably never work because so much of our Government drives around in gas Guzzling Suburbans #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Tell me what you guys think!
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
TROLL ALERT!!!! TROLL ALERT!!!!!

AAAUUUGHAA!!! AAAUUUGGGHHHAAA!!!!

DIVE, DIVE, DIVE!!!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Just for the record. I drive an SUV and at 17 mpg, I can do in one trip what your tiny puddle jumper needs 3 trips to do.. According to my calculations, than makes my SUV more economical than your crappy puddle jumping sheetmetal raincoat...

KM5FL

[n3ijw]

Whoa whoa whoa, hey I wasn't comparing my expenses to that of residents of the People's Republic of Kalifornia, I was comparing it to folks in my area who drive tin cans.

First thing I would do if I were you would be to move #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

N6WK,you need to go study some basic economics, then study the real causes of the high gas costs in this nation.

Once you do, you will see that if we want to tax anyone extra it should be enviornmentalists and liberal politicians that pass more and more regulations on the industry.

See there is plenty of oil. Even just here in the USA. But we don't use the oil from Alaska because it is &quot;too dirty&quot;for our standards. And the costs of drilling here, due to ever increasing eviornmental regulations, makes it impractical.

But the real issue is lack of refining capability. Why? Because we haven't built or opened a new refinery in over 20 years yet demand has risen. Why? The laws in this country make it all but impossible,and once you managed to clear that hurdle the enviornmental activists would have you tied up in court for the next 10 years before you could open it...... no matter how clean it was designed to run.

Remember the big refinery fire in Texas City a few months ago.....the effects of that are catching up with us now.

No there is plenty of oil. Plenty of it. And when you have plenty of product, demand isn't a problem, unless you artificially restrict the market in some way. Remove those asanine restrictions and watch the market correct.

But don't call for a government program and tax to fix a problem caused by government regulation..... just fix the real problem.

[n0ov]

Charging fees to get people to think twice about buying big vehicles. Here's a news flash -- those who can afford those big vehicles and usually afford the cost of maintaining those vehicles.

But hey, you're on a role. So let's not stop there....

All the amateurs who have linear amps should also have to may a surcharge on their electric power and even their license.

After all, those amps consume more power.

Make sense? #About as much sense as charging penalty fees based on the type of vehicle you drive.

How about this approach -- start fining the automakers for not selling the fuel efficient cars designed to meet or exceed the fuel and air efficiency standards already on the books.

Where are all the hybrid vehicles at?

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0LNU @ May 20 2004,05:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where are all the hybrid vehicles at?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
They are all here where I work. They are the only people that can afford them. Along with the jacked up SUV's and Pick up's, Ferarri's, Mercedes, and the occasional soccor mom mini-van. But when you live in a 14,000 sq.ft. house........

But look it this way, the Hybrid's are catching on and soon the price will start dropping then maybe I can afford one.

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KF4PEP @ May 20 2004,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...you will see that if we want to tax anyone extra it should be enviornmentalists and liberal politicians that pass more and more regulations on the industry...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And don't forget the Heinz 57 varieties of gasoliine blends that are mandated for use in different areas of the country, all of which makes it impossible to mix blends in pipelines for efficient distribution.

Congress and EPA at work again, making sure that the system is the LEAST efficient we can make it.

And how about the agricultural write-offs on Hummers and other outsized beasts?

[K3UD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 20 2004,00:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually I favor the Flat tax idea with NO deductions. Lets say we all pay 15% of our gross income with NO deductions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There is one problem with a completely flat tax.

I would propose the thought that taxing a minimum wage income. ($12,360 per year at 2040 hours) removes $1,854 from that income.
I would also suggest that 15% of a $100,000 income impacts living standards a lot less that 15% of a a $12,000 income as there is still $75,000 left and that still enables one to live quite comfortably.

This is why even the most ardent proponets of a flat tax usually exclude the first $15,000 - $25,000 of income before the tax kicks in.

I always wondered why the social security tax has a finite limit on income. this makes it a completely poor and middle class tax. Why not extend it to all wage earners regardless of how high their income is? Might help to stabilize the program.

As far as gas guzzlers are concerned.... this argument was in full rage in the 70s (remember the gas lines) the very early 80s (remember the diesel cars?) and is now coming up again.

Sometime in 1980 I saw an advertisement in one of the counterculture publications. It showed a gleaming mansion on top of a hill with a long driveway. You could make out a Linclon, two motor homes, a Caddy and several boats parked around it. It was a very technically well done picture. The caption was simple.....What gives him the right?.....the implication was obvious.

There was serious thought that suggested we were in fact running out of energy (the [prophisies of the early 70s were being fullfilled) and that there would only be enough for those well off people who could afford it. (let the others shiver in the dark)

In the end the market corrected the problems. Will this happen again?

73
George
K3UD

[K3UD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W3MIV @ May 20 2004,08:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And how about the agricultural write-offs on Hummers and other outsized beasts?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey.... now you are playing with fire http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I am in a agricultural area and have seen Corvettes with farm plates.


73
George
K3UD

[W0LC]

They do, whenever they fill up!

[n3mvf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3UD @ May 19 2004,09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I always wondered why the social security tax has a finite limit on income. this makes it a completely poor and middle class tax. Why not extend it to all wage earners regardless of how high their income is? Might help to stabilize the program.

As far as gas guzzlers are concerned.... this argument was in full rage in the 70s (remember the gas lines) the very early 80s (remember the diesel cars?) and is now coming up again.

Sometime in 1980 I saw an advertisement in one of the counterculture publications. It showed a gleaming mansion on top of a hill with a long driveway. You could make out a Linclon, two motor homes, a Caddy and several boats parked around it. It was a very technically well done picture. The caption was simple.....What gives him the right?.....the implication was obvious.

There was serious thought that suggested we were in fact running out of energy (the [prophisies of the early 70s were being fullfilled) and that there would only be enough for those well off people who could afford it. (let the others shiver in the dark)

In the end the market corrected the problems. Will this happen again?

73
George
K3UD[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The SS tax is finite because the benefits are finite. #SS decided that there is a maximum it chooses to pay as a benefit therefore, the notion of someone paying on 500k versus 70k getting the same benfit is the problem.

I prefer higher gas prices to the lines in the 70's and the stupid ration systems that were in effect based upon plates or inspection sticker #'s. #Saw a statistic....might be off some in my recollection but the $1+ per gallon we paid in the 70''s would equate to a similar price of over $3 today. #In the 70's, it hit me harder then todays $2 per gallon and I had a smaller car!

Taxing gas doesn't work. #Any time you use regulated control such as ceilings and floors, it gets worse. #Supply will balance out but you might not see $1.25 again if demand stays where it's at.

Lastly, what the hell is this thing with hitting the strategic petroleum reserve. #I saw AAA said that the # of people driving this year on vacation will still be high. #Let's sacrifice national security because someone wants to go to Disney World cheap. #Hey, buy a tent and Coleman stove!

73
Greg

[n3ijw]

It's been pointed out before, but here it is again:

Gasoline is no more expensive today than it has been for most of the postwar period, and it is considerably cheaper than it was in the late 1970s and early 1980s (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/05/20/sky_high_gas_prices_not_really/). (link)

[K3UD]

Greg,

I think it stabliized at .65 a gallon up until about 1979 when it started to rise again. I agree with you on the gas lines and odd / even days. That .65 in 1974 would be $2.46 today. The problem in 1973/74 was an artificial shortage of crude as OPEC flexed its muscles over US support of the last Isreali/Egyption war in the fall of 73. What we are seeing today is much the same thing with the added problems of a preference for gas guzzling vehicles in this country and the lack of added refinery capacity in the last 25 years or so.

While people are still planning vacation trips via driving, I notice that the prime destination areas are getting nervous. Check out some of the deals being offered now to entice you to go to these places. If shortages begin to pop up, It could be a killer for the vacation season.

We had shortages in 74 and again in 1980 and a few in 1991, but so far non have showed up as yet.

73
George
K3UD

[n0ov]

It's also been pointed out that price increases will have a negative impact on this recovering economy.

Setting vacations, humvees, and suv's asside.

People need fuel to get to work, especially where this no workable mass transit alternatives. (Like in Kansas City, what a joke! ) #They will pay for what they need first, leaving less money for the nice to haves or luxuries. #

As spending is reduced, so are the sales. #Fewer sales = less profit. #Less profit, more work to reduce costs -- which often lead to downsizing and layoffs. #

People out of work can't buy services. #People who believe their jobs may be at risk (actual or perceived) usually will delay purchases -- again impacting the economy.

Bottom line -- there is nothing good about what is happening. #It makes no difference why (oil is at $40++ a barrel, EPA and the government is requiring designer fuels, fuel companies are scheduling production to create shortages, suppliers gouging stations to create regional shortages to drive costs)

Let's get some alternative transportation methods out there -- hybrid cars, perhaps some safe mass transit options that service the outlying areas, etc.

[n3ijw]

Hybrids are becoming somewhat more mainstream...I've actually seen quite a few tooling around here in the DC area. Not nearly as many hybrids as Hummers, but it's a start. I've also noticed a growing number of city buses and company vehicles are using natural gas, has anyone else seen this in their areas?

[n0ov]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3UD @ May 19 2004,07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The problem in 1973/74 was an artificial shortage of crude as OPEC flexed its muscles over US support of the last Isreali/Egyption war in the fall of 73.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Good observation George.

One additional note -- when OPEC did this, both OPEC and the oil companies realized they could get away with just about anything they wanted.

This is when the world oil prices (not just the US) started to get crazy.

Note: Was not living in the US from 1986 to 1990 -- was feeling the true pain in Europe paying $3.00++ per gallon. Major different though the cars on the road were alot more fuel efficient. They had to be!

[AG3Y]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">n3ijw Posted on May 20 2004,09:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's been pointed out before, but here it is again:

Gasoline is no more expensive today than it has been for most of the postwar period, and it is considerably cheaper than it was in the late 1970s and early 1980s. (link) [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Figures don't lie, but liers figure! #

There are two sides to every &quot;inflation&quot; story, and the side that they are not citing is the &quot;purchasing power&quot; side!

In 1968, I bought a brand-spanking-new Pontiac GTO, with a 400 Cubic Inch, 350 horse power engine, a 4 on the floor transmission, and lots of other &quot;go-go&quot; items! # I was making about 9 thousand bucks a year, and the car came fully equipped for about 1/3 of a year's income! # Gasoline at that time was about $.30 a gallon, except during &quot;gas wars&quot; when you could get the stuff for about a dime a gallon. #( but we shouldn't count those, because they were the exception, and not the rule, weren't they ? )

Now days, the equivalent of that car would set me back about 33.5 thousand dollars, INCLUDING a &quot;GAS GUZZLER TAX&quot; of over a thousand bucks! #

http://www.kbb.com/kb....&amp;&amp;nyrnc (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ncb?kbb.MD;311137;MD043&21740&6;Pontiac;2004%20GTO&M29M9A2;;M29M9&&&&nyrnc)

As I figure it, that is around 10 times as much as I paid for my car back in 1968!

I hate to say it, but I certainly am not making ten times my salary in 1968 ( nearly 100K dollars ! ) , but in the meantime, #my gasoline costs have skyrocketed from around 30 cents per gallon back in those heady days of the late 60s to over two dollars a gallon today. #

I used to pay about a dollar a gallon for milk back in the 60s, too. #If the cost of milk had gone up the same amount as the cost of transportation ( cars and gas ) I would be paying $10 a gallon for it! # And no-one is doing that !

PLEASE DON'T TELL ME THAT INFLATION ALONE ACCOUNTS FOR THE DIFFERENCE IN COST FOR CARS AND GASOLINE. #I just don't buy it! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

73 from Jim AG3Y

[n3ijw]

Well one could argue that cars today are simply built better than they used to be, to much more stringent safety and emissions standards, and perform better while using less fuel (true to an extent, but I'll take a GTO over a plastic front wheel drive transportation appliance any day)!

And just think, if you had kept that Goat, you could probably get $20K for it today easily!

[W4CGP]

Shouldn't leadfoots pay more too? How about people with diesel SUVs? Diesel trucks? Just what is efficient anyway?

Why don't we just force everyone to sell their cars and get motorcycles? Or better yet, bicycles? Sure would cut down a lot on our depenance on foreign oil.

Augh.

N6WK, you live in metro LA, which has a major polluton problem. I imagine it's not wide open spaces either. A lot of Europe is the same way. They drive small cars cause hey, when I was in Germany in 1996, gas was over $3 a gallon.

Now, how about this...ag vehicles. &quot;Gas-guzzling&quot; trucks on ranches and farms. Should they have to pay more? After all, aren't they feeding you?

Another idea...how about solar-gas-electric cars?

Or, why don't they start putting manual transmissions back in vehicles? Torque converters eat up quite a bit of energy.

Why not lower the taxes on diesel fuel some, since the refinement isn't nearly as extensive and it's a lot more &quot;crud&quot; if you will. Federal diesel taxes are substantially higher than gasoline.

[AG3Y]

IJW, I couldn't afford it. #The insurance companies were asking $200 a year for insurance. # ( Man do I wish I could get car insurance for that amount today ! #- - - #Inflation, don't you know ! )

BTW, in today's dollars ( if we keep the ratio between 1960s dollars for transportation, and todays cost for transportation ) that &quot;old goat&quot; would only be worth $2K worth of 1960s dollars, isn't that true ? # Ya just can't win ! #


Incidently, I was &quot;rear ended&quot; by someone following me too closely, and the only damage to the car was a dented trunk lid. #I hate to think what my current car would have looked like under the same circumstances!


73 from Jim

[KI4BOO]

Hello.

I am 18, and I can't afford a new gas economical car. I could afford a Ford Bronco II, with 4X4 which I use on a weekly basis. I get 16MPG City.

Shall I pay more in taxes as well? I can hardly afford the gas to get to work and back as it is...

[n0ov]

Don't feel bad. #I purchased a used 2000 Neon in 2001 -- gets about 30 to 35 mpg. (Saw this coming and stopped using my F150 to commute back and forth to KC (70 miles one way at the time))

Three years and 95,000 miles later $20 a tank is also a bit #much, especially when it takes 8 or 9 gallons to fill my tank.

Wish I had access to some of the cars being produced for Europe -- regardless if they are using automatic or manual transmissions, their gearing is different. #Get alot more speed at a lot less RPM's.

(Some of those little critters would smoke a GTO -- I've seen it in Belgium, not a pretty picture)

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When this car wears out will I buy another economy vehicle. Absolutely -- if I can afford them. Who can afford payments and the cost of fuel



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KI4BOO]

Oil companies have successfully lobbied congress to make it nearly impossible to import the fuel efficient vehicles available in Europe.

Ford and Chevy both produce cars that can get in upwards of 80MPG over in Europe.

[ky5u]

My alternate suggestion:

Make people who live in states that prohibit oil drilling inland or off their coast pay more than oil producing states for gasoline.

[n0ov]

That way we can lower our prices on the oil we are exporting to China

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KF4PEP @ May 19 2004,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But the real issue is lack of refining capability. Why? Because we haven't built or opened a new refinery in over 20 years yet demand has risen. Why? The laws in this country make it all but impossible,and once you managed to clear that hurdle the enviornmental activists would have you tied up in court for the next 10 years before you could open it...... no matter how clean it was designed to run.

Remember the big refinery fire in Texas City a few months ago.....the effects of that are catching up with us now.

No there is plenty of oil. Plenty of it. And when you have plenty of product, demand isn't a problem, unless you artificially restrict the market in some way. Remove those asanine restrictions and watch the market correct.

But don't call for a government program and tax to fix a problem caused by government regulation..... just fix the real problem.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I highly suspect you are correct about the refining capacity issue. I have not heard about a huge jump in oil prices, nor have I heard about Europe having the same jump in fuel prices that we have.

As a matter of fact, the only place I have heard this issue addressed is Prince Bandar (SP?) from Saudi Arabia speaking in an interview with Lou Dobbs on CNN. Lou was attempting to grill him on oil prices, but the prince shut him down completely by stating that oil prices have not jumped up and that America has a refining capacity problem.


Why is the press not reporting this?

Why are people so ingorant, as to how the world works, that they think the problem is people who drive nice, big, cars and trucks?

I guess the world will never know.

[W4CGP]

Supply and demand, perhaps?

They may not be selling it to us for any more money, but with less of it to go around, it makes sense. On the other hand, Europe doesn't make sense either.

[ae4tr]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif # Seems to me the real answer is to just stay home, unless it is absolutely necessary to go, say, to the Dr, Hosp, Grocery, Post office and other places like that. #Making useless trips uses a lot of fuel that could be put to better use. #Sometimes a trip to the Dr. could be included with the trip to the grocery, or post office, or something like that, instead of making seperate trips of each one. #Taking a vacation does not necessarily mean going to some far off place. #It's a rest from normal working place. #Now I'm not against vacations. #Just that a far away place takes a lot of fuel to get there and back. #I remember as a kid, we had one car, and used it only on special ocassions, and used very little gas, and it was cheap in those days. #We bought groceries on Saturday only, we went to the Dr on emergencies only and never ever rode around just for the joy of doing it. #My, my how things have changed. #One set of tires lasted the life of the car. #If one is inclined to live the way we are today, then one must be prepared to pay the price for such actions. #Watch the traffic and you will see many cars with only one person in them. # # # # #hey,hey,hey..... so it goes. # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3ijw @ May 20 2004,09:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well one could argue that cars today are simply built better than they used to be...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...But they're NOT! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KM5FL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,00:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KM5FL @ May 20 2004,07:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TROLL ALERT!!!! TROLL ALERT!!!!!
Just for the record. I drive an SUV and at 17 mpg, I can do in one trip what your tiny puddle jumper needs 3 trips to do.. According to my calculations, than makes my SUV more economical than your crappy puddle jumping sheetmetal raincoat...

KM5FL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmm, i go to the store an get 25MPG, you go at 17mpg...
I saved 8MPG, Your calculations are way off. I guess I don't want you desiging any Antennas for me with that Math. Of course you do it differently in texas.. ;D.
You don't even know what my car is so how can you call it a puddle jumper?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif # Dang texans... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You betcha we do it different in Texas!!!

Big, bold, brassy, gaudy, AND expensive.. I worked my butt off to have the things, stuff, and toys I have..

Bad math??? I don't think so.. My SUV is at least 3 times the volume/size of any conventional automobile.. Compact, mid-size, or other-size.. I can carry a lot of junk, garden/building supplies, an entire little league team and all their gear. Plus three times the groceries your sheetmetal raincoat can carry. Therefore you have to go to the store 3 times more often than I do.. sure it's a gas guzzler.. But it will move, carry, haul, or tow ANYTHING I can tie, bolt, hitch, or strap to it..

You want more proof?? I've owned it 3 years and 11 months and I've put 29,369 miles on it. That's an average of approximately 7500 miles a year to take care of my &quot;trips to the store&quot; and wherever else I need to go. it's my only vehicle..

Back your case with statistics. How many miles does it take you to do everything you need to do in any given time frame. And how much gas did you burn during the past 12 months?? I didn't buy an ounce of gasoline during the month of April.. Come on, show me watcha got big boy....

Like what most of the other SUV owners have said.. You don't have a case.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KM5FL

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Back when cars were made of REAL METAL ( not this cheap beer can siding they have these days...or plastic )..you could hit a tree and maybe bend the front fender just a bit ( but then we werent usually going as fast either ..also the roads would not let you go as fast, curvier, bumpier most not paved real smooth like they are now ).....these modern cars are made so flimsy they HAVE to have frontal air bags, side air bags, automatic shoulder/seat belts.

Plus the major causes of accidents has nothing to do with all the safety features they have or do not have...

they have to do with the NUT behind the wheel !!

73

---ai4ep---

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif look how many of those S U V s only have ONE person in it. Some of these folks here on the internet have capacity to send proof: pictures with only ONE person in a S U V ( evidence ). !!

[n3ijw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ May 20 2004,13:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...But they're NOT! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In many ways, they really are. Engines are more powerful and efficient, fit and finish is much better than even 15 years ago especially in regard to domestic vehicles, paint quality is better (particularly for those of us who drive early 1990s GM products #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif )...

But what cars today gained in build quality, they lost in character. I used to be able to identify every car on the road down to the model year, nowadays I have to stare hard to even determine the make. There are of course many exceptions but in general todays cookie cutter cars don't hold a candle to the all-steel all-style all-motor whips of years past.

I don't think we will ever see a Ford Taurus or Toyota Camry wearing &quot;Vintage&quot; license plates #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K3XR]

Where is the post complaining about the amount of state and federal taxes we pay on each gallon of fuel. Taxes, by the way, that John Kerry wanted to raise by .50 per gallon.

If you want to drive a yugo that is your business, #If I want to drive a high performance car, it's my business as along as I am paying for the fuel.

It's time to start drilling again in this country to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

DAN, K3XR

[w6ez]

I remember the day we set the pump prices up to 49.99 cents for a gallon of Cheveron Supreme way back when I was working for Standard Oil of California. I thought no one would ever keep paying that high of a price. Of course, I also remember when the price of a BMW R90S topped three grand. I didn't think people would really pay three grand for a motorcycle either.

Back then I also bought a LOLA t340 fresh off the boat with engine and a set of tires for $5,800 now a new formula ford is 30 to 35K without an engine.

I miss cheap stuff.

[k6pme]

About these new &quot;beer can&quot; cars.....

Since we're on the subject let me interject some more info. Now this comes from a career of Jaws of Life work.

Used to be, that cars were made STRONG. As EP said, hit a tree and maybe bend a fender. But the truth to the dynamics is that somewhere KINETIC energy (mass in motion) must somehow be absorbed or otherwise displaced. In the &quot;olden&quot; days this energy absorbtion was taken up by the human body. Either slamming into the steering wheel, windshield, the seatbelt or even the internal organs against the rest of the body. Brain into the cranium, heart and lungs into the ribcage etc...

Now what they finally figured out was that if the kinetic energy could be absorbed by the CAR rather than the occupants the injuries and death would be significantly reduced. So they began to design cars WEAKER and created CRUMPLE ZONES. These crumple zones are designed to absorb the energy.

Now, in a newer car you will a whole lot of damage to the sheet metal and whole lot less damage to the occupants.

So are cars made 'cheaper' and 'weaker' these days? The answer of course is YES! But it is by design in order to save lives.

I have seen it over and over again.

[KG4ZQZ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3ijw @ May 19 2004,21:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That doesn't make any sense. A gallon of gas costs $X. How many of those gallons I buy, or what I do with it after I buy it is nobody elses business but mine. Same with electricity, I pay for what I use, simple.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
- you would think this would be true...

- however, in a number of counties and states across the U.S., the rate you pay per kilowatt hour will change (upwards) when you exceed usage of an arbitrary number of kilowatt hours per month (say 2000)...

- of course, there's no one to keep track of your monthly gasoline consumption...

- unless the U.S. government starts issuing gasoline ration coupons...

How about posting how you would reward someone for finding more oil or energy? Seems like everything is negative, about how to punish for being proactive.
(ex petroleum geologist, forced out of the business in 86)
N7SYY

Price of oil fell. Duuh. Everybody was forced out of the oil business. Very few petroleum geologists kept their jobs. Rig count went from 400 to 29 or something like that. That's a lot of no jobs, from the seismic juggies down to the drillers down to the production hands. Can't drill for oil when the drilling will cost more than what the oil will sell for. Duuh. I mean, you should know what it costs to drill.
N7SYY

[KM5FL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,19http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Well, let see. I really do NOT believe that you can carry an ENTIRE little league team as you have to have at least 9 players, plus yourself that would be Ten and unless you are driving a Bus, there is no practical way. good try though! The LAWS would prevent you from putting 9 Kids and yourself in a SUV ( then again, does Texas even have laws)
I have also worked My butt off to have the things I have also!! #I have had my car for 6 Years. I have 19,500 miles on it. That is 3,250 miles a year. Your vehicle which probaly drinks twice as much gas drove one and a half #that distance, so you used 3 times the amount of fuel that I did. The Grocery store is .9 of mile away. My work is 1.2 miles away. #Sounds to me like you drive way too much. #In a Month I drive maybe 3 times to the store so both ways that would be abt 5.4 miles. I drive back and forth to work 5 times a week so that would be about 48 miles a month. Looks like I use less then 3 gallons of gas a month. #When I fill my car it cost me about $30.00 #Yours must cost around $100.00 so I don't see any point you are trying to make there. Dude, You need to sell that gas guzzling piece of sheet metal (it is probably mostly plastic) and get yourself a Horse and wagon. #You're wasting way too much fuel. #I have a GREAT case and you have just proven that point!! #
Thanks for backing me up with your statistics <!--emo&amp;<!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Dang texans... #I Think LBJ and the Bush's were from texas also weren't they??? It wouldn't surprise me if you think Bush is a &quot;COWBOY&quot; and also a &quot;Hero&quot; too. #sad. He didn't even go to Nam like the rest of us. Hid out in Arkansas I believe!
But this is FUN!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well doooood.. Not only do you not know the passenger capacity of an American SUV, you also don't know what they're made of..

And your math is grossly flawed. Heaven forbids that you're not being honest. 48 miles a month times 72 months of ownership comes out to 3456 miles.. I see a 16,044 mile falsehood.. OH NO!!! I forgot. That's an example of that new california math everybody's talking about.. Could bad math skills be the reason californians pay about 40% more for their gasoline than us Texans pay??

The only statistic you have correct is the number of players on a little league team.. The team fits easily.. Two in the front seat with the driver. Texas doesn't allow more than 3 persons in the front seat.. Four in the middle seat, and the three man outfield fits nicely in the third seat.. Seatbelts for all.. Nice and legal.. And all their gear fits in the cargo area behind the third seat..

You wouldn't know a cowboy if he walked up and slapped you in the face....

The minute you see yourself loosing an argument, you verbally attack the President of The United States.. Very patriotic of you.. Ask the Dixie Chicks what happened to them when they insulted the President.. I see you're the typical californian.. Get a life and start a debate you have a chance of winning.

I made a vow a while back to never get into a pi**ing match again on this site. So this is my final post on this thread.. See ya later..

KM5FL

[k6pme]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KM5FL @ May 20 2004,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see you're the typical californian..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Somehow I would have figured a Texan would have known better than to make a statement like that. If you knew any better you would know that there is no such thing as a 'typical Californian'. Simply does not exist here.

So maybe I'll just chalk up that little blanket insult to your being a little riled up.

[K3UD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 20 2004,20:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, let see. I really do NOT believe that you can carry an ENTIRE little league team as you have to have at least 9 players, plus yourself that would be Ten and unless you are driving a Bus, there is no practical way. good try though! The LAWS would prevent you from putting 9 Kids and yourself in a SUV ( then again, does Texas even have laws)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
For 7 years I drove a 95 Dodge Ram Van (360 V8) which had three removable bench seats and the driver and front passenger seat. 11 passanger capacity and just under the limit where one would need a CDL in the state of Kentucky. Came in very handy for transporting a lot of people. Was also a great vehicle for ham mobile use. The definition of a SUV has become rather blurred over the years ranging from the KIA mini SUV to the Subaru Outback Wagon, The Hummer and two wheel drive versions of the Blazer and others. My wife drove a 6 cylinder Chevy S-10 for a number of years. In 1999 our Insurance company re-classified it as a SUV. Go figure.


73
George
K3UD

[KM5FL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 20 2004,10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KM5FL @ May 21 2004,06:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dude, You need to sell that gas guzzling piece of sheet metal (it is probably mostly plastic)
N6WK

Well doooood.. Not only do you not know the passenger capacity of an American SUV, you also don't know what they're made of..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, I do know what they are made of. More and more plastic is used in vehicles everyday. The grilles, the dash, the door panels, the fender wells, the valve covers, the intake manifolds etc..etc..etc.... I am a certified master Auto tech. I work on these things EVERY day. I still have not found ONE SUV that has a 4 person seat. I have checked every manufacturer that I can thknk of and to no avail. #Could you tell us what SUV (not a Van Or Bus) has that option??
Or Does anyone Know???
Thanks Again,
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Certified Master Auto Tech?? If you take the time to look me up on QRZ, You'll know I've also been around automobiles a long, long time.... Made a career of working on 'em daily.. I have a collection of certificates too.. That race car is a lowly VW Beetle.. Covers the quarter mile in 12 seconds at over 100 mph..

Lots of plastic on today's cars. But take my word for it. At over 6,000 lbs, my SUV is not &quot;mostly plastic&quot;..

As for the make, model, and seating arrangment, Mr. Certified Master Auto Tech.. Keep searching.. You'll find it..

In the future, just so you &quot;typical californians&quot; know.. The quickest way to rile a Texan is to badmouth the President...

This IS my final word on this thread.. My grandson's little league team needs to get to the game..

KM5FL

[K0RGR]

Well, if you're going to bring gas prices down by penalizing some people over others, I guess you'd better start with those of us who live in the Northern states.

We have 4 cars. I drive a Tracker, which gets pretty good mileage (high 20's) in spite of being a 4 wheeler.
The XYL drives an AWD AstroVan which gets mid-20's on the highway but sucks in town. KC0LLG only drives 2-3 times a week, but his econo-box was wasted by a road-rage crazed driver a few weeks ago, and now, he's driving a Grand Cherokee with gas-guzzling V8. And car #4 is an '89 Dodge RAM rustbucket that we use to haul trash. I don't want to think about the gas mileage it gets.

However, in February, despite excellent insulation, the furnace in my newer home runs 24X7. We keep the thermostat as low as we can tolerate, and I am tired of hearing the complaining about it. I suspect that for the better part of three months, we burn more fuel in the furnace than we do in all our cars, combined. Since Natural Gas prices have more than doubled at times in the last 3 years, this is serious money.

This year, as eastern power plants switch from expensive oil to cheaper natural gas in order to keep their customer's electric rates down, those of us who need it to prevent frostbite will be handing over a bigger chunk of our paychecks than ever before. Hopefully, there won't be any serious shortages, which have historically led to death for senior citizens in this part of the country.

So, the answer to the nation's energy problems should be obvious. We energy wasters in the north should be nuked. Public transportation, a foreign, possibly French concept, is a source of scorn and derision here, as in most of the country, so we shouldn't consider that option. Of course, we could all move to Texas, assuming we can get work visas.

Public transportation, ha! Most of us in the west drive farther to work than most of those countries are big. Heck, we have counties that are bigger than those countries. We have counties bigger than a lot of states. Try getting a public transport from Austin to, say Beatty. Or from Denio to Pioche. Then you'd still be 10 miles from your destination. Doesn't work in a lot of the US.
N7SYY

[n3ijw]

So basically you've burned more gas than I ever will in my lifetime, and now all of a sudden *I'm* the gas hog in my pickup truck?? How does that work #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K6UEY]

I think the idea of taxing more on gas in california,or any state is a truly assinine idea. I will put my gas consumption per gallon up against any tree hugger in the state. I,by the way drive a 4X4 Ford Explorer with a V6 engine. If you want to raise more tax money charge by the mile driven. There is no shortage of gasoline,so you are not going to change the consumption by increasing the cost. The gas tax is suppose to be to support the hiway system so it makes sense to charge by the mile driven. I would be in favor of a special tax on these little roller skates that are allowed on the road.They are unsafe,and smash if hit by a large moth and usually driven by some dimwit who is busy listening to the radio at + 60 decibels. They are hard to see, making them a hazard on the road.
At the same time the SUV owners should get an insurance rebate,in a collision the roller skate crumples and the SUV takes it in stride having been engineered to protect the driver and passengers.If you can't operate a safe vehicle on the road you should take public transportation or better yet it is healthier to walk.

[w6ez]

I don't know if it this is still true, but, waaaay
back in the early seventies, in France, they had a tax on your vehicle if it had to use high octane fuel. And I think the tax on the high octane fuel was higher too.
And I also belive there was a yearly registration penalty on those cars that didn't meet MPG requirements.
Oh wait, that was french idea. Never mind.

Maybe this will put some of the argument to rest:

Gas price history (http://www.ghg.net/stuart/gasprice/gasprice.html)

Adjusted for inflation, gas is still awfully cheap.

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 21 2004,17:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6ez @ May 22 2004,01:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know if it this is still true, but, waaaay
back in the early seventies, in France, they had a tax on your vehicle if it had to use high octane fuel. And I think the tax on the high octane fuel was higher too.
And I also belive there was a yearly registration penalty on those cars that didn't meet MPG requirements.
Oh wait, that was french idea. Never mind.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I believe that was true Berry. I just had a FLASH.. Why don't we Increase the Registration fees in proportion to the Vehicle weight???
When I used to live in New York back in the 60's, Your registration was based on vehicle Weight. That could be the Answer. Lets Not Tax because of Poor Mileage, Lets tax because of EXCESSIVE weight and for not meeting the MPG value.
Thank You for making me think of that., That is the Answer..
My 3000 lb car should only pay 1/2 as much as a 6000 lb SUV..
I Like it.
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well I think about all the crummy little french junker cars they had back then as a result of such laws and I don't wish that on anyone.

Gordon- In 6-land, you pay more just for living there because of the tight emission controls. You know this. The graph in the link I presented was done by a private citizen in Texas, not a government agency.

Has my income kept up with inflation? Not quite, but that doesn't really matter. This is the free-market economy we love so much and sometimes, we pay the price for it. We all have decisions to make, and there is nothing in the Constitution that mentions cheap gas.

My take is that if gas prices adversely affect your budget, then maybe you drive too much. Playing Devil's Advocate, of course. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Any way you cut it, the US still enjoys the cheapest gas prices on the planet outside of OPEC.

Fact is, driving isn't even a right. Like my ham license, it's a privalege granted by the government, provided I use it legally.

[ke4mej]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 21 2004,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You live in california, you have to know about the Cell Phone problem. #Those things need to be OutLawed while driving![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Be careful what you wish for...if the cell phones while driving are outlawed, where does that leave the mobile radio operator in terms of the law? #Some folks are perfectly capable of running CW while mobile without becoming a traffic hazard, but if a new law is passed banning cell phones, do you think that an amateur license will make you exempt? #The really sad thing is that so many people these days seem to think that banning something, or passing new laws, will make their life better. #I refrained from commenting in another thread where you put forth the opinion that guns should be banned, but i just couldn't resist this time.

As for gas prices...well, we don't have it near as bad as our friends in Europe. #They have had much higher gas prices than ours for several decades now. #The thing to remember is that you DO have a personal choice...if you can afford to feed that SUV, feel free. #If you want to make a statement, buy one of the Hybrids that are on the market these days. #Or do like i do, use a motorcycle for your daily commute. #I have to fill it up about every two weeks...last time it cost me almost 8 dollars!

Whatever you do, please don't ask for more laws and restrictions, or bigger government...it just won't help!

73
Chuck

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 21 2004,18:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB0AMJ @ May 22 2004,02http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gordon- #In 6-land, you pay more just for living there because of the tight emission controls. #You know this. #The graph in the link I presented was done by a private citizen in Texas, not a government agency.

Has my income kept up with inflation? #Not quite, but that doesn't really matter. #This is the free-market economy we love so much and sometimes, we pay the price for it. #We all have decisions to make, and there is nothing in the Constitution that mentions cheap gas.

My take is that if gas prices adversely affect your budget, then maybe you drive too much. #Playing Devil's Advocate, of course. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #Any way you cut it, the US still enjoys the cheapest gas prices on the planet outside of OPEC.

Fact is, driving isn't even a right. #Like my ham license, it's a privalege granted by the government, provided I use it legally.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know all to well about tight emission standards. The South Coast Air Basin here in southern california, Has tighter restrictions then anywhere else in the US if not the World. #
I am just saying that the Graph is &quot;Flawed&quot; because it does not represent actual figues (real life) on inflation. Only the Government figures.
We all know that they are not consistantly true figures.
I don't know of anyone that can say their income has kept up with the so called Government figures of inflation. #Unless you worked for say ENRON when they RAPED Californians. I think each administration plays games with the numbers to make themselves look good. The current administration says that the Economy is on the rise. Are you Niave enough to believe that? I am not. There are soo many places vacant in the Industrial complex I work at that it is Pathetic.. President Bush can say whatever he wants about the economy, but it SUCKS right now and that is a FACT!
The Price of gas does Not adversely effect my life style. I still can afford most anything I want. #I just don't think it should be this high and I feel the American consumer is being ripped of by the Oil companies and The US Government and the EXCESS of a certain few.
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am just saying that the Graph is &quot;Flawed&quot; because it does not represent actual figues (real life) on inflation. Only the Government figures.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Oh, c'mon, Gordon. This graph is based on the Consumer Price Index, perhaps the most scrutinized indicator in American economics. Unless you're a big believer in government conspiracy fantasies, it's dead on, and tracked regularly by just about anyone with an economic interest.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know of anyone that can say their income has kept up with the so called Government figures of inflation. Unless you worked for say ENRON when they RAPED Californians. I think each administration plays games with the numbers to make themselves look good. The current administration says that the Economy is on the rise. Are you Niave enough to believe that? I am not. There are soo many places vacant in the Industrial complex I work at that it is Pathetic.. President Bush can say whatever he wants about the economy, but it SUCKS right now and that is a FACT![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well, I do know a few whose income have outpaced inflation in recent years (and without scandal) And yeah, the administration will do what it has to to get reelected. This is a constant -- always been that way. But whether or not it sucks depends a lot on where you fit in. Many are doing very well today.

Is the American consumer being ripped off on gas prices? This is a tough call when you look at other nations. Europe pays much more than we do (primarily due to taxes) and China is coming on strong as a gas consumer. The supply of easy-to-get oil in the Middle-East isn't endless and everyone in the biz knows this.

I'm no Liberal, but I think it's a wake-up call to develop alternatives.

[ke4mej]

I appreciate the kudo's, Gordon, but it's really not what i was going after. #What i choose for my daily transportation is strictly a personal choice...it works for me, but obviously would not work for everyone. #I really just threw that in as an afterthought.

What i hoped you would address is my opinion on big government, new laws and regulations, and the practice of trying to legislate, tax, or ban anything that seems &quot;offensive.&quot; #I won't iterate those, because i think i was fairly clear in my original post. #I would appreciate comments from your viewpoint!

73
Chuck

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I somewhat agee on your opinion on &quot;big&quot; government. However, I still think that Cell phones should be outlawed while driving.
Government is the only One that can do it. people will not quit using them while driving voluntarily. government has to do it. I can't say that I would pity the ham that has to give up using CW # or his mibile rig while driving because of this law. #If you are talikng on a cell phone, talking on a radio, keying up cw, shaving, reading a newspaper, putting on makeup, etc..etc..etc.. you are not giving 100% to driving (which it what you are suppossed to be dong in the first place) while going down the highway. If you wish do do all those other things, Pull over to the side of the road and DO them. otherwise, DONOT. #If you want to drive, then DRIVE... period. If more government is what it takes to reach that goal, then so be it.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Not &quot;stalking&quot; you, honest! #You're just an easy target.

Back when I first got involved in repeater communications (1974 or so), this was never discussed. #It was simply assumed that a reasonably intelligent human being could manage a microphone and a steering wheel at the same time.

Well, the average cell phone user may have proven this wrong (still not sure). #Many hams are well accustomed to manage driving while operating a radio, and I've even known one or two who could manage a CW QSO while driving.

My question is this: #How would you apply your &quot;no talking&quot; rule to the police? #Or, do you just assume that the police are better trained to handle this?

#-ex-AMJ (who is against more government)

[ke4mej]

Thanks for the quick reply, Gordon. #I guess you and i will just have to &quot;agree to disagree&quot; at this point. #I still tend to get pretty upset when laws are passed that restrict my personal freedoms without having a chance of stopping real crimes. #The real problem is the low conviction rate and lenient sentences for serious crimes, at least in my humble opinion.

On a brighter note, my home state (Texas) has recently put a law into effect that i don't think anyone would take offense to. #I don't know the exact code, but it is commonly referred to as &quot;Driving while Distracted.&quot; #It doesn't automatically make driving while talking on your cell phone (or your radio, or shaving, applying makeup, or whatever) illegal. #It does, however, make it a crime if the driver is operating in an unsafe manner while attempting any of these things. #Prior to this law, if a driver was swerving all over the road, endangering other motorists, but passed a breathalyzer test, any excuse would avoid a citation. #&quot;Officer, i was in the middle of a teleconference with my office!&quot;

So i'm not completely opposed to new laws...i just like to see the behavior made illegal, not the equipment. #If you endanger an &quot;innocent bystander&quot; with your actions, you should pay the full penalty...but if someone else has the skills to use a cell phone (or a handgun) without putting the general public at risk, more power to them.

73
Chuck

[WA5KRP]

WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

In just 12 pages you guys managed to drop local gas prices 2¢. #

THANK YOU!


WA5KRP
Texas

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa5krp @ May 21 2004,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

In just 12 pages you guys managed to drop local gas prices 2¢.

THANK YOU!


WA5KRP
Texas[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Price of crude dropped below $40 too.

&quot;they use more so they oughta pay more!&quot;

Hint.. THEY ALREADY DO! Consumption increases mean they buy more.. so ERGO they PAY more.. (free market economics! WHAT A CONCEPT! &lt;grin&gt;)

However, what the original poster MEANT was that the SUV owners should pay an ADDITIONAL fee above and beyond the price they alreadypay for gasoline.

The thinking is 'to make it FAIR!'

As Thomas Sowell and other economists who UNDERSTAND the free market economics quite well, have pointed out..

Imposing taxes, fees, and costs to 'make it fair' ONLY serve to hinder, impede,and (in some cases0 HALT the improvements and eventual cost reductions that are desired.

&quot;Each paying their fair share by leveling the field by taxation, fees, charges, and other unnatural means&quot; is JUST another way of saying what the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO says in the opening lines about &quot;each according to their means..etc..etc.&quot;

Adam Smith would be howling with laughter reading the posts and the FOunding Fathers would be standing there with frowns on their faces as they observed how topsy turvy the Republic has become. (Of course, Lenin and Stalin would be standing there with BIG SMILES on their faces, rubbing their hands with glee as they observe their prophecies coming true)

K3FT

[WA5KRP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ May 22 2004,07:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Price of crude dropped below $40 too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yesterday the Saudis said they will increase production 6% on June 1st - that's about 500,000 additional bbl/day.



WA5KRP
Texas

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ May 22 2004,07:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, what the original poster MEANT was that the SUV owners should pay an ADDITIONAL fee above and beyond the price they alreadypay for gasoline.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
SUV owners should be congratulated. They have single-handedly kept the US auto manufacturers in business.

If you think they don't pay more, think about this. The average price of an SUV is $32,000. After two years, it's dropped $12,000 in value. Lease-holders swallow that plus their initial.

Those who purchase really take it up the wazoo.

Fortunately for Detroit, most people fail to see the really bad economics of owning such a vehicle.

I think there should be a stupidity tax. If you come up with a really stupid idea you should be taxed more then everyone else. I also think that if you cut me off on the highway you should be taxed more then me too. While we are at if your religious beliefs differ from mine another tax. Thank god some of you aren't in any power to be able to put any of these taxes in place. If it was up to some of you i would have to pay 3 taxes just to get up off my couch and use the can.

FYI: I don't drive an SUV. I get 30mpg

[n9vr]

When you buy in larger quanities, you normally pay less per item. So since I drive a gas guzzling suv I should get a discount for purchasing more gallons per week then the guy with the little puddle jumper! hihi

what ya think?

[K6UEY]

KO9R,
AMEN!! I like the way you think.
Here in California we pay more for registration,that must mean we own more of the hiway than the little roller skates,so Puddle jumpers move over out of the way,let the BIG dog thru......
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KO9R @ May 22 2004,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When you buy in larger quanities, you normally pay less per item. So since I drive a gas guzzling suv I should get a discount for purchasing more gallons per week then the guy with the little puddle jumper! #hihi

what ya think?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
YES!!! it is called a VOLUME DISCOUNT!

I have avoided this thread, I figured that the entire concept was anti-American, but it is time to wade into this mess.

It is not going to make a damned bit of difference if the Saudi's pump 500 thousand or 5 million barrels a day extra if the refinery facilities are max'ed out.

SUV's saved the American auto business.

Government has all but forced me to buy a SUV, I cannot find a sedan that will COMFORTLY fit two full sized AMERICAN adults, two kids and the occasional dog or four.... and then to top this off, it is REQUIRED to be a 4x4 with a manual locking transfer case if I want to tow it behind the 8mpg motorhome.

[KI4DYA]

I had typed up a long diatribe against the persecution of those of us who own SUV's, then I realized it's an exercise in futility.

You people have your own opinions, you've realized you're better than the rest of us, therefore nothing ANY of us can say or do will change your minds.

This thread is just echoing a trend I've seen quite a bit of lately here on QRZ, the tending of our neighbors gardens. Well, here's a thought. Tend your own garden, take care of your own business and allow me to tend mine. When I'm on welfare THEN you can grumble about how I'm running my life, until then how about shutting up and minding your own business?

[w6ez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,22:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6ez @ May 20 2004,06:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey! What a great idea!

And we could expand on that idea and make rich people pay more tax too!
And smart people would have to pay an IQ tax beacuse they have a greater potential to get rich.
And a beauty tax for good looking ladies.
And a sports tax for those who can run faster.

Heck this way we could make all those folks who feel like they are the only &quot;normal&quot; people feel real good by making some one else &quot;PAY&quot;.

Yep.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You have to be from California with that way of thinking &quot; http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Rich People should pay more tax. Actually I favor the Flat tax idea with NO deductions. Lets say we all pay 15% of our gross income with NO deductions.
Then Everyone would pay their fair share without all the Deduction loopholes. But that could be a whole new thread!
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ouch!

Yes I am from California but I am NOT from one of those centers of socialism, like LA or San Francisco.

I was making fun of the idea of taxing someone because they do conform to someone else's idea of what is right or wrong.

[k4uug]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have read a lot lately about what to do about our &quot;HIGH&quot; gas prices. #Well I have a suggestion, #Why not make those that have gas guzzling vehicles Pay More?? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We do Pay more Gordon ,I bet you are a DemocRat!I drive a full size ford bronco and a full size chevy silverado pickup today it cost $44.00 to fill up ,my Bronco 4X4 gets 10 mpg the chevy 28mpg why should I be punished for having an SUV or a truck that I paid for and pay tax on?

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=FORD+BRONCO+4X4/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.customtruckshowcase.org/4x4gallery/img193L.jpg

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=2001+CHEVY+SILVERADO/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.4wheelingplus.com/images/2001_silverado_400X.jpg


Gordon you remind me of a story of the The Little Red Hen

Once upon a time, on a farm in Santa Ana, there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered quite a few grains of wheat.

She called all of her neighbors together and said, &quot;If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?&quot;

&quot;Not I,&quot; said the cow.
&quot;Not I,&quot; said the duck.
&quot;Not I,&quot; said the pig.
&quot;Not I,&quot; said the goose.

&quot;Then I will do it by myself,&quot; said the little red hen.

And so she did; The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain.

&quot;Who will help me reap my wheat?&quot; asked the little red hen.

&quot;Not I,&quot; said the duck.
&quot;Out of my classification,&quot; said the pig.
&quot;I'd lose my seniority,&quot; said the cow.
&quot;I'd lose my unemployment compensation,&quot; said the goose.

&quot;Then I will do it by myself,&quot; said the little red hen, and so she did.

At last it came time to bake the bread. &quot;Who will help me bake the bread?&quot; asked the little red hen.

&quot;That would be overtime for me,&quot; said the cow.
&quot;I'd lose my welfare benefits,&quot; said the duck.
&quot;I'm a dropout and never learned how,&quot; said the pig.
&quot;If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination,&quot;
said the goose.

&quot;Then I will do it by myself,&quot; said the little red hen.

She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see.

They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, &quot;No, I shall eat all five loaves.&quot;

&quot;Excess profits!&quot; cried the cow.
&quot;Capitalist leech!&quot; screamed the duck.
&quot;I demand equal rights!&quot; yelled the goose.
The pig just grunted in disdain.

And they all painted &quot;Unfair!&quot; picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.

Then a government agent came, he said to the little red hen, &quot;You must not be so greedy.&quot;

&quot;But I earned the bread,&quot; said the little red hen.

&quot;Exactly,&quot; said the agent. &quot;That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.&quot;

And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, &quot;I am grateful, for now I truly understand.&quot;

But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the &quot;party&quot;
and got her bread free.

And all the Democrats smiled. 'Fairness' had been established. Individual initiative had died but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared, as long as there was free bread.

[n0ov]

Here's an idea for the big 3 automakers.

America is in love with their SUV's. #Many of the folks who have them can afford to pay the high price for these vehicles. #Many of these vehicles do not get taken off road, which is why most of them ride great on the highway. #4WD is mostly used in the snow or severe weather. #

Considering how these vehicles are designed and used today I cannot think of a better full sized vehicle for hybrid applications. #You put a small gas engine to power the batteries and the right gearing in the transmission and the transfer cases and you've created a win-win.

Personally I think it would be too cool to have an SUV that could get 40 - 50 MPG. # Of course, I also would like to see them put the greese fittings back in the front ends -- think it's just stupid to rebuild a front end of a vehicle at 40,000 miles when it could have lasted twice as long if we could have applied a little greese. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Of course the American Auto Industry won't this won't happen -- cost to much to change. Their friends in the Oil Industry won't let it happen!

When will they get the clue? Probabily when Japan beats us to the punch and delivers a new line of comfortable, reliable and functional hybrids that people can afford.

[n3ijw]

There is no &quot;fair share&quot; in a capitalist republic.

btw, just paid $61.47 to fill up my truck. With the low-octane stuff #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 24 2004,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ May 25 2004,13http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 19 2004,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have read a lot lately about what to do about our &quot;HIGH&quot; gas prices. #Well I have a suggestion, #Why not make those that have gas guzzling vehicles Pay More?? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We do Pay more Gordon ,I bet you are a DemocRat!I drive a full size ford bronco and a full size chevy silverado pickup today it cost $44.00 to fill up ,my Bronco 4X4 gets 10 mpg the chevy 28mpg why should I be punished for having an SUV or a truck that I paid for and pay tax on?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think the Point I was trying to make is that POOR Mileage SUV owners use more then What should be their FAIR share.
That is All! #We all Purchased our Vehicles and We all paid Taxes on them. No I'm a republican but Doesn't look like I will be voting that in the Next election http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
what a short sighted view!

Gas prices are up so vote for a --- well, no personal attacks --- John FU Kerry?

WHAT ABOUT THE SECURITY OF THE NATION? I do not think that we can entrust that to Kerry...

[K0YNE]

Would gas guzzlers include diesel burners? If the truck, semi business would add more streamlining on its rigs and lighter weight trailers, that would add milllions of gallons of fuel to our savings each year. Most semi tractors are not very efficient but streamling would helpsignificantly. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KC8QMU]

OBN,

You mean 18 MPG for the Silverado, right?

[K6UEY]

I doth protest!!
You are painting all SUV owners with a broad brush,I own a Ford Explorer and it is a 4x4 and I will put my gas consumption up against any one in California for any 6 month period for the last 10 years.
You seem to speak with the mentality and understanding of a CA. Legislator. When I bought the vehicle,I paid extra in sales tax,I paid extra in license and Registration,I paid both Federal and State tax on every gallon of fuel I purchased,and you want to blanket tax me further with out having the slightest inkling of what my fuel consumption is. You want to save fuel,try talking to the State and Federal Envioramentalists,have them stop putting the crap in the fuel that lowers the mileage factor. My mileage dropped from 24 to 17 with the addition of the California Fuel additive program.I keep a running log of every ounce of fuel that has gone into my vehicle from the day I bought it,so I know how much fuel I consume.Too damn many people are becoming part of the problem by being &quot;Busybodies&quot; instead of working out a sensible solution.

[K6UEY]

N6WK,
Well if I only put 8000 miles on my vehicle then I would have only used slightly over 470 gallons as opposed to your using 780 gallons,so by your logic you have the Guzzler and should have an extra tax levied against you for over consumption.
I can understand why you are not going to vote,with statement like the rich can afford to pay more,it is not the Republican Ticket you support and the leftists party so far has not offered a candidate worthy of the white house. Don't worry though I will be glad to vote for you,as a registered Republican and one who is Quite pleased with the way the country is being run,I will vote for GWB for both of us ...

[W3MIV]

This just in—Ford has new Gas/Electric hybe coming out in the next several weeks:

&quot;When the Escape Hybrid goes on sale in late summer, it will boast a number of firsts. It will be the first hybrid SUV, the first hybrid with available 4WD and the first full hybrid from a domestic automaker.

&quot;The Escape Hybrid 'could not have arrived at a better time', Phil Martens, Ford group vice president of product creation, told MSN Autos. The introduction of the Escape Hybrid coincides with climbing gas prices while compact SUV sales have never been better. Martens was very excited that Ford had managed to be first to market with a hybrid SUV.&quot;

There you go: have at it. Go buy one as soon as they are in the showrooms. My Ford stock could use a little lift.



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W3MIV]

On second thought, my Ford stock could use a BIG lift, so go out and buy two!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KA8NCR]

bump to the top

[k4uug]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 25 2004,21:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Who is DirtDavis???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He is a troll and his IP is logged he will get caught along with his other id's!He made that one as of tonight. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KC8QMU]

Hey MIV,

I just helped your Ford stock a little a couple of weeks ago!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thanks for the Bump.. Who is DirtDavis???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

a troll.

[K6UEY]

My Ford stock needs a bump also,buy one for your girl friend,OH Hell buy one for your wife also.......

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N1OBN @ May 25 2004,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 25 2004,21:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wh