RILEY STRIKES AGAIN!

Going after the COMPANIES... not just the drivers.

First UPS.. then FEDEX.. then R&L.. and others.. and now these.. EXCELLENT!

73
k3FT
=============
Source FCC. Public Domain. Extracted from ARRL website 18 May 04.
------------
April 27, 2004

James Brown Trucking Company
6908 Chapman Road
Lithonia, GA 30058-5246

Subject: Warning Notice--Unlicensed Radio Operation
Case #EB-2004-2549

Dear Sir:

Information before the Commission indicates that your vehicle bearing Georgia license plate C-125217 was the source of radio transmissions on the Ten Meter Amateur Radio Band (28.085 MHz) on March 19, 2004 on Interstate 85N at the Belmont Abbey Exit in North Carolina. Operation on the 10-meter band requires a license from the FCC.

While many truckers use Citizens band radio equipment, please be advised that operation of radio transmitting equipment without a license is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. Section 301, and will subject the operator to fine or imprisonment, as well as an in rem seizure of any non-certified radio transmitting equipment, in cooperation with the United States Attorney for your jurisdiction. Monetary forfeitures normally range from $7,500 to $10,000. You are requested to contact me at 717-338-2502 to discuss this matter.

CC: FCC South Central Region
=====================
April 27, 2004

Waggoners Trucking
1501 S. E. 15th Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73129

Subject: Warning Notice--Unlicensed Radio Operation
Case #EB-2004-2550

Dear Sir:

Information before the Commission indicates that your vehicle bearing Oklahoma license plate 2BC423 was the source of radio transmissions on the Ten Meter Amateur Radio Band (28.085 MHz) on March 21, 2004 on Interstate 85S at Exit 98 between Blacksburg and Gaffney, SC. Operation on the 10-meter band requires a license from the FCC.

While many truckers use Citizens band radio equipment, please be advised that operation of radio transmitting equipment without a license is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, 47 U.S.C. Section 301, and will subject the operator to fine or imprisonment, as well as an in rem seizure of any non-certified radio transmitting equipment, in cooperation with the United States Attorney for your jurisdiction. Monetary forfeitures normally range from $7,500 to $10,000. You are requested to contact me at 717-338-2502 to discuss this matter.

CC: FCC South Central Region
===============================

[kc0ebm]

YYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

[K8YS]

It was too bad that Riley did not attend the Hamvention! I would have driven him 20 minutes south to the two permament flea markets that operate year round at OHSR63 and I75. I would have shown him the retailers that openly sell what can only laughingly called "ham gear", modified for 11m... or as one told me "it is only illegal if you get caught".

K8YS

[K3XR]

Just think, if Riley had Ken Starr's job, we might have had a President Gore.

DAN, K3XR

[KA3RFE]

The context of the letters seem to indicate that these were probably independent truckers. The word I'm looking at is "vehicle" and not "one of your vehicles."

73, Pete KA3RFE

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif oh wow...like ( dude ) they actually caught ( one ) 1 person operating illegally. How many have they caught this month ? Problably less then you have fingers on one hand ( wow ).

With their progress rate, for every ONE they catch, 10 more get new radios and start using them ( or is the last number way too low ? )


73 any way

---ai4ep--- http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WF7I]

Slapping a couple of hands won't cure the epidemic. #And there's all the south of the border guys to consider.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why can't retailers be held responsible to get proof of ham license before selling gear? #I've heard many stories of radio shack clerks actually encouraging illegal operation off of their 10m rigs.

[KD4LEI]

You know, I seem to notice a trend with the frequency these guys seem to operate on.

Take em down one by one.

[N0PU]

Unbelieveable...

People crabbing when no action was taken...
Now we're getting a little help and you're still crabbing...

Go for it Riley...
One by one...
Whatever it takes...
Every little bit helps...

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif sure...but it appears that for every one they catch...another 50 NEW folks arrive each month...not counting those who have been at it for YEARS & years & years & years...... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif


73


---ai4ep---

[K4KWH]

No matter WHAT is done *some* are going to sit on the sidelines and whine about what someone ELSE is doing or NOT doing. I read people gripin' about what wasn't being done prior to RH, then when RH tries to do something about it, people gripe and sit on their penquin butts`--gripe, whine. Gripe, whine. B**** about
this, b**** about that.

I don't mean to be harsh, but what have *YOU* done to combat the theft of our bands by criminals? Did YOU ever listen on 10 Meters to snare a trucker operating on our bands? Did YOU ever respond to Riley's plea for help by taking down names and tag #'s like he asked hams to do? No, it is easier to sit there behind a key-board and blame someone ELSE for not doing what YOU yourself should be doing.

How many ham mobiles do you reckon there are in the US with 10 Meter capability? Many say, well, *I* can't do anything about it, so I'll sit there and criticize others that MAY be doing something. If all those ham mobiles
would snare just ONE trucker transmitting illegally, how many do you think that would be? Ten? Twenty? If just one trucker gets one of those letters, it just might be that he strolls into a truckstop and tells a fellow driver, "Hey, I got a letter for FCC telling me I can't run my 'reddio' on them 'extra' channels no more!" Now maybe that buddy goes and tells another trucker, "A friend of mine got a letter from FCC about operating on the ham bands with his 'reddio'". Maybe the word spreads little by little that the guys in the white hats (I mean, vans http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ) are back and will 'gitcha'.

Are the whiners are going to sit still and gripe when the illegals get on 20 Meters, "BREAK THAR, SKIPLAND, YUH GOTTA AN OL' COPY THER' ON THIS H'YAR JAW-GA CRACKAR"? (Sigh) I am afraid they are! It's a START, guys, so get out there and do what RH asked us to do!
Keep a little recorder in your car (one of those pocket jobs). When a drivah (I mean driver http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ), perhaps, keys up and says, "That sure is a big antenna on the little
Volkswagen", you then have something to go on. Get the DOT # off the door, the tag # off the tractor's front
bumper (if possible), location (exit, MP#), frequency, date and time , and co. mane then email the man that is doing all he can. He can't do it all, and if we follow his instructions, we may not get EVERY one of the b-------(OOOOPS, sorry), we can get enough to make a dent. At least we can say that we tried.

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good(?) men to do nothing"

73

K4KWH

[KG4CGC]

All I have to say is "WOW"! That (those violations) are really very local to me.
Wonder if they care anything about the problem 11 meter guy at exit 32 on HWY 85 in Anderson County?

[K4KWH]

If he's doing something illegal, then email RH.

rholling@fcc.gov


73

K4KWH

[KG4CGC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K4KWH @ May 18 2004,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If he's doing something illegal, then email RH.

rholling@fcc.gov # #


73

K4KWH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to be able to prove he's running over 4 watts. He certainly attracts a lot of attention to himself by being a total ARSE!

&quot;theft of our bands by criminals&quot; I have news for you:

FLASH! There have allways been illegal operators and there allways will be.

I would hardly characterize someone who keys up on 10 meters without a license as a criminal. Compared to the Latin skip, these people are not bothering anyone mostly. It never ceases to amaze me the level of hysteria I see in many posts here, like someone keying a radio on &quot;Our frequencies&quot; was a sin punishable by death.

So, wowww. The FCC sent out a few warning letters (which I bet you Roughridin' Riley had nothing at all to do with), no doubt based on complaints submitted by some ham who just happened to want to be the radio Gestapo. I live in SE MI and I can tell you, there IS NO widespread problem on 10 meters here, other than the Latin Americans. At least not in the Metro area. I rarely hear anything but spanish skip, days and the occasional SSB QSO nights.

Forgive me if I dont burst a blood vessel...Now for another bag of popcorn.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4CGC @ May 18 2004,21:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I have to say is &quot;WOW&quot;! That (those violations) are really very local to me.
# Wonder if they care anything about the problem 11 meter guy at exit 32 on HWY 85 in Anderson County?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There have been a few of these busted in this area in recent months. The FCC seems to concentrate on those running power (above 100 watts), who tie up channels making an ass of themselves. They seem to allocate such things on a time available basis. Even the channel 11 crowd seemed to take the hint when Fishman got busted, among others.

[WA5KRP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ May 18 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was too bad that Riley did not attend the Hamvention! I would have driven him 20 minutes south to the two permament flea markets that operate year round at OHSR63 and I75.K8YS[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
YS,

Your post is in no way misguided, but I think a collection of several thousand like-minded individuals such as yourself would give Riley compelling reasons to avoid the fray. #

Just imagine yourself being Riley, finding a parking place and heading toward Hamvention HQ. #Within twenty feet of your vehicle, some guy hollers across the parking lot, &quot;Hey Hollingsworth, zatchu&quot;? #No less than forty hams lay eyes on you...............here come the horror stories and thousands of &quot;Wydoncha's....&quot;

Riley has to live with this EVERY DAY. #Not me, mahhnnnn.

I think we all get it.



WA5KRP

[WA3KYY]

The funny thing is, Riley was at Dayton this year:

ARRL Report on Riley Speaking at Dayton Forum (http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/17/1/?nc=1)

Talking about a decline in amateur enforcement actions. #Guess we are cleaning up our own acts a bit.

[K4KWH]

No matter what, one can expect naysayers and critics in any venue. But the fact remains, the problem exists, and if we, ourselves are not willing, or too unconcerned to protect our bands, then we may as well as hand the keys over and throw the doors wide open to one and all.
After all, down in the human spirit, there always resides
the rebel who chafes under the chains of any restraint whatever. Rules of behavior are now being challenged as never before. Radio is not really the most important issue; it is a symptom of something more dangerous and
sinister. It hints at the destruction of American society itself as we tear at the fabric of our own inassurance of where we are going. What is now &quot;right&quot; used to be &quot;wrong&quot;, and what was wrong is now considered &quot;right&quot;. It is the reprobate in us that now questions EVERYTHING because we are no long sure of ourselves. The thing we worship the most is ourselves and we demand to be indulged in anything. We see thru
clouded water and throw out anything that might interfere with our pleasure. We have lost something, I am fearful, something much worse than radio. The most dangerous thing is that which we cannot, or refuse to, see. As long as we can't *see* a problem, it is not there. WRT, Amateur Radio, we face quite a few challenges; the bandit issue is just one of them.

No, it isn't radio that is the main thing here. Yes, I would like to see our beloved (at least to some us) Amateur bands preserved and, yes, restored to its integrity that once it had and can still have. And, yet, as the bonds of our peoples weaken into self-indulgence, we aren't willing to step forward and do our best to protect what we worked for; we don't *see* it, so the problem doesn't exist. We are so soft now, didja
ever wonder what would happen if we had another Great
Depression? Our parents and grandparents are to be admired and commended for their determination to pull thru. Soft-willed and self-centered, what would happen today? I am afraid that society itself would crumble into anarchy so used to the finer things of life we demand as our right and due. Can't you see just a hint in this in the
incursions into 10 Meters--&quot;Ah have mah rah'ts, and, &quot;I bought this h'yar reddio an' I'll tawk on hit if I wanna&quot;, etc.

So in this day, those who even dare to exhibit any hint of character and leadership in exhorting people to take action on an issue are now called &quot;radio police&quot; or &quot;Gestapo&quot;. C'mon, it is just radio, it's just a hobby, right?

OK, I have said my piece, right or wrong. It is now 2 PM.
I am going to the river and fish and forget about the whole thing.



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


73

[KB9YCO]

The only widespread problem with 10 meters is not enough people using it. Nothing like some good old fashioned CW, in that bottom portion of the band where the freebanders congregate, to chase them away. Besides, if we chase them off of there by them hearing actual activity, they have plenty of spectrum (legal and illegal) below 28 MHz to put down the big old maul no doubt about it big brother man. I just got down, and I'm back out. As long as they stay down there, which most of them do, it's not our problem, it's the FCC's problem.
The point is amateurs need to use the band more.

[kc0ebm]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8GHB @ May 18 2004,22:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;theft of our bands by criminals&quot; I have news for you:

# FLASH! There have allways been illegal operators and there allways will be.

# I would hardly characterize someone who keys up on 10 meters without a license as a criminal. Compared to the Latin skip, these people are not bothering anyone mostly. It never ceases to amaze me the level of hysteria I see in many posts here, like someone keying a radio on &quot;Our frequencies&quot; was a sin punishable by death.

# So, wowww. The FCC sent out a few warning letters (which I bet you Roughridin' Riley had nothing at all to do with), no doubt based on complaints submitted by some ham who just happened to want to be the radio Gestapo. I live in SE MI and I can tell you, there IS NO widespread problem on 10 meters here, other than the Latin Americans. At least not in the Metro area. I rarely hear anything but spanish skip, days and the occasional SSB QSO nights.

# Forgive me if I dont burst a blood vessel...Now for another bag of popcorn.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
GHB,

Sit back and enjoy your popcorn, buddy!

I'm gunna bag enough LIDS for both of us http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73

Radio Gustapo

K8GHB believes that someone who transmits on 10M sans ANY license is not a criminal.

Well, must point out.. according to the Law, if you xmit on the ham bands without a license you ARE a criminal. Think not? Just go back, search the FCC records for fines (and in a FEW RARE CASES jail time) for operating on the ham bands sans a ticket. I don't know about you.. but fines and jail time seem to be the resulting hallmarks of someone convicted of a 'crime'.


Now.. if those reading these posts would LIKE to help with the invaders on 10M problem.. drop me a PM. I'll pass along thingsabout what hams ARE doing to help Riley with the issue and problem - as he requested us to do about 6 months ago.


I'm with YCO.. if they STAY BELOW 28.000 MHz.. I'm happy. Let them freeband and be illegal down there. That's someone elses playground and they can exert the effort to help the FCC get 'em.

TAKE BACK TEN METERS!

73
K3FT


People bitch when nothing is done.
People bitch when something is done.
People bitch because they NEED something to bitch about.

If RH cleaned up 10M totally.. they'd bitch because 80M still has a guy who likes to spend too much time on a frequency reading bulletins or something else.

[K4KWH]

I'm with YCO.. if they STAY BELOW 28.000 MHz.. I'm happy. Let them freeband and be illegal down there. That's someone elses playground and they can exert the effort to help the FCC get 'em.

TAKE BACK TEN METERS!


.................................................. .............................


I totally agree. All I want is for them to go back and play in their own yard and leave the ham bands alone;
unless, of course, they choose to become licensed hams
and follow the rules.

73

James Brown Trucking company...

There's gotta be a joke there somewhere http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I just got down like James Brown Trucking company

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif oh yea real progress ( not !! )...fcc bust ONE ( 1 ) lonely little operator riding in an 19 wheeler...while ...at the same 24 hour period ... they SELL more than 20 new radios nation wide in same 24 hour period...


bust 1 operator in 24 hour time frame
sell 20 radios in 24 hour time frame

you see the total

on a DAILY basis

[KB9YCO]

Exactly, that always been the problem, millions and millions of those radios out there with very little regulation of the band. Good luck ever getting rid of 'freebanders'; and, like I said before, below 28 and I don't care.
By the way, the same thing is happening to GMRS with the advent of those lovely little FRS/GMRS hybrid radios; thanks FCC!

[K4JSR]

SHRIEK! I can't stand it! Liberals and conservatives actually
talking about ham radio's well being and being in agreement!
&lt;Sniff smelling salts&gt; http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
YCO, don't jump out of a window, or anything else drastic,
but I 100% agree with you on this issue! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Yeah, I'm shocked, also! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
But we are all hams and we don't have to allow these scum bag freeloaders, er, freebanders onto our turf unchallenged.
If you find one, be sure to let Riley know. Eventually one of them is going to get some really big jail time and that should silence a few. Freebanding is not usually a profit motivated
activity for the operators. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
73, Cal K4JSR

[W0LC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 18 2004,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now if we can get rid of the illegal Ops that are from South of our Borders on 10 Meters..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Unfortunately, we have them coming and going thru my state as it is.

[nx6d]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 21 2004,17:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W0LC @ May 20 2004,17:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 18 2004,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now if we can get rid of the illegal Ops that are from South of our Borders on 10 Meters..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Unfortunately, we have them coming and going thru my state as it is.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yea, It is a never ending problem. #Kinda like a speading Virus..Sad.
The Gov is worried about homeland security, but yet they come in by the thousands... Southern California is Brown now days.
Gordon
N6WK[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Brown? Hasn't it rained enough down in SoCal lately?

Did it ever occur to you that the Spanish speaking ops may be operating legally in their country? Through the magic of radio, we can hear them! What a concept!


WX7B

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I pulled a small stunt last Thursday afternoon from around 4;00 pm --- 5;00 pm ( rush hour )...

Location : Highway 31 Decatur Alabama
...looking at vehicles going south

what I were doing: counting cb antennas ( not including

any vehicle with more than 10 wheels )...mostly
interested in 4 wheelers, types of antennas, etc.

total number of vehicles: around 600

total number of vehicles with any type of cb antenna : 10

most common type of antenna: magnet mount

most common vehicle with antenna: chev. s - 10 p u ...mid 1990 s model ...color: dark blue/ black

+ - 600 vehicles and only 10 with a cb antenna in about one good hour

so apparently there are not a lot of vehicles out these days with cb antennas, much less a radio inside.

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N6WK @ May 23 2004,10:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WX7B @ May 22 2004,04:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did it ever occur to you that the Spanish speaking ops may be operating legally in their country? Through the magic of radio, we can hear them! What a concept!


WX7B[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, it Did Occur to me, but then again, I never heard them give a Call Sign in Spanish or English . So I could VERY well be corret in assuming that they were Illegal Ops!
Lots of music playing also.
That's all.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Neither government can stop the flow of contraban and flesh traders across the borders. Do you think for a moment they care about what some bored taxi driver from Cozumel is doing on 10 meters?

Yes, I've seen it live; taxi drivers on the island use 10 meters for communication.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ May 19 2004,14:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K8GHB believes that someone who transmits on 10M sans ANY license is not a criminal.

Well, must point out.. according to the Law, if you xmit on the ham bands without a license you ARE a criminal. Think not? Just go back, search the FCC records for fines (and in a FEW RARE CASES jail time) for operating on the ham bands sans a ticket. #I don't know about you.. but fines and jail time seem to be the resulting hallmarks of someone convicted of a 'crime'.


Now.. if those reading these posts would LIKE to help with the invaders on 10M problem.. drop me a PM. I'll pass along thingsabout what hams ARE doing to help Riley with the issue and problem - as he requested us to do about 6 months ago.


I'm with YCO.. if they STAY BELOW 28.000 MHz.. I'm happy. Let them freeband and be illegal down there. That's someone elses playground and they can exert the effort to help the FCC get 'em.

TAKE BACK TEN METERS!

73
K3FT


People bitch when nothing is done.
People bitch when something is done.
People bitch because they NEED something to bitch about.

If RH cleaned up 10M totally.. they'd bitch because 80M still has a guy who likes to spend too much time on a frequency reading bulletins or something else.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Seems to me that it's a matter of proportion. The fact is that there is not a large amount of illegal activity on 10 meters. Seems to me there are many pissing and moaning about it, but not actually USING it. As far as someone keying up illegally being a &quot;criminal&quot;, I would be willing to bet you that, one way or another, with all the lame &quot;Gotcha&quot; laws of one type or another out there, we are ALL &quot;criminals&quot;.

# The point being that, annoying or irritating or enraging as it might be to some, keying up a (average 10 watt) radio illegally on 10 meters is a MINOR act that causes little or no damage to anyone, especially from a truck. If you want to abate interference, why not whine to the Latin governments? You know what they will tell you, dont you..?

# As others have said here, if you USE the band, the &quot;CB scum&quot; will likely stay away down in the &quot;Freemand (where most stay ANYWAY). As I have said before, if it weren't for the vast majority of the &quot;CB scum&quot; staying off 10 meters by gentlemens agreement, 10 meters would simply be overrun and roughridin' Riley would be riding into the sunset with his hands up in disgust and defeat.

# All I seem to hear here is the cry of the wolf pack, howling about &quot;Violators&quot; and &quot;lids&quot; (is that a cool term or what? How inventive.) and enforcement. No one seems to have a clue, let alone the will to get up off their ass and WORK TOGETHER to find a solution-like maybe USING the band instead of congregating allways on HF with 1,000 watts-Instead of being obsessed with the rules and trying to be the radio gestapo.

# Cause and effect, pilgrim. A concept just as valid now as it has allways been. Where there is a problem (effect) there is a cause, funny thing is, there is allways a solution and &quot;enforcement&quot; is usually not it.

GHB.. just to enlighten you.. for the past 4 years there HAS been an active (but QUIET) group fo hams who have been working, monitoring, and logging things on 10M concerning illegals. The ARRL OO groups have been actively (and are) doing the same thing. This data goes to Riley.

What we log are items dealing with the 'who, where, what' and provide that to the FCC.

If you've read the FCC notices, you will see that they are going after the TRUCKING COMPANIES (UPS, FEDEX and others) and not just the 'poor driver'.

you don't hear much about us because we keep quiet and just report what we find. The FCC does appreciate the info and itis useful for them in their investigations.

10M doesn't get 'used' as much due to the simple fact that propagation conditions don't favor it as much as conditions do 20/40/15/17/12M.

plus the fact that illegals use SSB/AM in teh CW portion makes it tough for us to legally have SSB QSO's down there.

However, there ARE folks engaged in active countermesures.

They send Code Practice on the same frequencies as illegals. THey send bulletins. They test and tune their equipment. They call CQ and have QSO's.

All this is LEGAL and not interfering because you CAN'T be guilty of interfering with a station who is illegal in the first place.

So, there IS activity ongoing to gather data and get it Riley adn Company. There are active countermeasures to help promote these guys to go back below 28000 kHz. You just don't see or hear about it that's all.

But like the iceberg.. 90% is below the visible surface.

K3F
T

[K4KWH]

However, there ARE folks engaged in active countermesures.

They send Code Practice on the same frequencies as illegals. THey send bulletins. They test and tune their equipment. They call CQ and have QSO's.

All this is LEGAL and not interfering because you CAN'T be guilty of interfering with a station who is illegal in the first place. &lt;quote&gt;

(snipped for brevity)

And on another note, those &quot;freebanders&quot; who happen to be hams and apologists for the CB folk, try to use the above to condemn the LEGAL users of 10 Meters. By trying to interpret the regulations literally (Amateurs must not cause interference to any communication, etc),
they attempt to 'legitimize' the theft of our bands if we
use them in according to the rules. I have quite a few arguments with people about this in which my opponent(s) says that, in effect, I must yield the frequency in the
presence of an illegal station and I must not create &quot;interference&quot; to *any* station. NOT! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif The rule implies interference from a legal station TO another legal station. It does confer any protection for, say, a trucker beepin' and squeakin' his way down the interstate. If I want to call CQ on an otherwise clear frequency and there &quot;happens&quot; to be a trucker a-tan-ferin' thar TOUGH LUCK!! His operation has no legal status and, thus, no protection from signals generated by a legal, licensed station. Would *I* ever create &quot;interference&quot; to a pore ole trucker on 10 Meters by calling CQ? NAWWWWW! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

There is ONE VERY GOOD thing about the illegals on 10M!

They are beacons which tell us 10M IS OPEN!

Since they can be heard.. and we can (using a beam) get some idea of their direction, we can find out WHICH areas of the USA 10M is open to work!

Then you can get on the band and operate!

So.. actually.. to make lemonade out of lemons... If the illegals are one.. or the Mexicans are on... it means 10M is open to the West Coast (or the east coast depending where you live) AND it will be open to SA for DX!

So, little do they realize that they are providing a LOT of good FREE propagation services for us!

AHH! I hear them now! 10M is open to the mid/west coast of the USA!

Time to run alittle code practice or test my transmitter on those frequencies!

K3FT

[n0ov]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ May 23 2004,12:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is ONE VERY GOOD thing about the illegals on 10M!

They are beacons which tell us 10M IS OPEN!

Since they can be heard.. and we can (using a beam) get some idea of their direction, we can find out WHICH areas of the USA 10M is open to work!

Then you can get on the band and operate!

So.. actually.. to make lemonade out of lemons... If the illegals are one.. or the Mexicans are on... it means 10M is open to the West Coast (or the east coast depending where you live) AND it will be open to SA for DX!

So, little do they realize that they are providing a LOT of good FREE propagation services for us!

AHH! I hear them now! 10M is open to the mid/west coast of the USA!

Time to run alittle code practice or test my transmitter on those frequencies!

K3FT[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You made my day!!!!!!

Great response!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ May 24 2004,06:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GHB.. just to enlighten you.. for the past 4 years there HAS been an active (but QUIET) group fo hams who have been working, monitoring, and logging things on 10M concerning illegals. The ARRL OO groups have been actively (and are) doing the same thing. This data goes to Riley.

What we log are items dealing with the 'who, where, what' and provide that to the FCC.

If you've read the FCC notices, you will see that they are going after the TRUCKING COMPANIES (UPS, FEDEX and others) and not just the 'poor driver'.

you don't hear much about us because we keep quiet and just report what we find. The FCC does appreciate the info and itis useful for them in their investigations.

10M doesn't get 'used' as much due to the simple fact that propagation conditions don't favor it as much as conditions do 20/40/15/17/12M.

plus the fact that illegals use SSB/AM in teh CW portion makes it tough for us to legally have SSB QSO's down there.

However, there ARE folks engaged in active countermesures.

They send Code Practice on the same frequencies as illegals. THey send bulletins. They test and tune their equipment. They call CQ and have QSO's.

All this is LEGAL and not interfering because you CAN'T be guilty of interfering with a station who is illegal in the first place.

So, there IS activity ongoing to gather data and get it Riley adn Company. #There are active countermeasures to help promote these guys to go back below 28000 kHz. #You just don't see or hear about it that's all.

But like the iceberg.. 90% is below the visible surface.

K3F
T[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for the enlightenment. Forgive me, but, like I said, more interested in being the radio gestapo. Not surprisingly, quietly, since no one likes a government snitch (i know, you stay quiet to avoid any backlash or forewarning &quot;violators&quot;, etc, right?). Do your local friends know you monitor and report (since what is to stop you from reporting THEM for whatever reason)?

Nor am I surprised to learn the ARRL has it's hands in it, either.

Yes, I noticed the FCC was going after the companies instead of the drivers, which just goes to show how weak their case is to begin with. How would they know what company or truck if the gestapo was just passively monitoring? And, on a busy interstate, are you SURE you got the right truck? While driving your own vehicle? And diddling with the radio? At 70 MPH?

And, I'm sure the FCC loves getting snitch notes from you and the ARRL. That way they dont have to do it themselves, which is part of their job. Too bad you aren't getting paid by the gov for your efforts. The government seems to have money to spend on everything else.

And, of course, who's to say that the Latins you hear arent legal? Yes, I know it's probably not likely, but then, you just MIGHT be willfully interfereing with legal ops. You never know...untill the pink note from your government comes to chastise you for being a bad boy and threaten you with dire consequences.(Like stealing $10,000 from you for your &quot;Apparent liability&quot;-I love that term..Apparent to whom?- It allways comes back to money) For example, do you know what many of the CB frequencies seem to be used for in Russia? Business.

Ah well, carry on, and if, as the ARRL has proposed, all those Techs get upgraded to general and get 10 meter and HF privleges...All those &quot;Violators&quot; with &quot;Legal limit&quot; and above amplifiers to turn in. You can call them the 10 meter lids then.

Just a few thoughts from another viewpoint (C'mon, admit it. You like my posts. they're different and interesting).

Radio nirvana.

And, no, I dont use 10 meters to talk on...yet, especially since I have been warned (thanks). But, I will, soon, when I have a General and find a nice amp at a swap...

[K4KWH]

&lt;Thanks for the enlightenment. Forgive me, but, like I said, more interested in being the radio gestapo. Not surprisingly, quietly, since no one likes a government snitch (i know, you stay quiet to avoid any backlash or forewarning &quot;violators&quot;, etc, right?). Do your local friends know you monitor and report (since what is to stop you from reporting THEM for whatever reason)?&gt;

(Comments interspersed)

Ever hear of the concept of &quot;self policing&quot;? Must not.......

&gt; Nor am I surprised to learn the ARRL has it's hands in it, either.&gt;


uh, in April of last year FCC A S K E D for ARRL assistance in curbing the incursions of unlicensed ops on to 10 and 12 Meters.

&gt; And, I'm sure the FCC loves getting snitch notes from you and the ARRL. That way they dont have to do it themselves, which is part of their job. Too bad you aren't getting paid by the gov for your efforts. The government seems to have money to spend on everything else&gt;

Once again, ARRL and volunteers were ASKED to do it. Being relatively new to ham radio, I can see how you might not understand the concept of self-policing that has been in the Amateur Service rules since the beginning. It is O U R bands that are being stolen! Hams are NOT going after CBers. Those volunteers are protecting something that many of us worked for for many years to obtain and keep. If ham radio ever falls to
the level of disinterest that *some* show towards the problem of intruders, it CAN be taken away (it can anyway)!


&lt; Ah well, carry on, and if, as the ARRL has proposed, all those Techs get upgraded to general and get 10 meter and HF privleges...All those &quot;Violators&quot; with &quot;Legal limit&quot; and above amplifiers to turn in. You can call them the 10 meter lids then.&gt;

Betcha you can't wait to be given General. Seriously, it is not about snitching or about license classes. It is about protecting the integrity of Amateur Radio and what is RIGHT! It is not right for people to just grab up a radio and start beeping and squeaking anywhere they durn please! It is no different than if you went out to a piece of property you owned (or leased) and discovered people having a party and trashing the place. Don't tell me you wouldn't raise the dickens AND call the cops. You, in that case, are the witness AND the aggrieved owner/lessee. Those volunteer observers are the witnesses and aggrieved &quot;owners/lessee's&quot; (by virtue of licensure), and they are only protecting something they worked for. Every licensed ham should be concerned enough to protect what they WORKED to achieve. Of course, those who have no HF privileges have nothing to lose, and it can readily be seen in the attitude of those who don't give a rat's--well, you know.

&lt; And, no, I dont use 10 meters to talk on...yet, especially since I have been warned (thanks). But, I will, soon, when I have a General and find a nice amp at a swap... &gt;


I know! When you have been &quot;given&quot; General privileges and are warming up that splattering trash amp from a CB
&quot;break&quot;, just remember this when you are sending a CQ
on 28.085, and a trucker comes on with one of those trash amps and &quot; HEY, THAR YOU &amp;*%$@ DOIN' THAT %$#@-ING BEEP-BEEP S%^&amp;$#, GIT OFF OUR PRIVATE
TRUCKER'S F&amp;*^-ING THAR&quot;. Then you'll know what I mean.

(Oh, I forgot. By then, they will have 'done away' with code and opened up 28 MHZ so you can talk with them
pore ole truckers, right? C'mon? Mercy sakes! Git back thar).

73

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

GHB... as was noted by KWH.. the FCC publicly ASKED ARRL and hams to submit info.

BTW.. use of the 'loaded' term 'GESTAPO' is uncalled for. No one in the ham community who is participating in this effort has.

'asked anyone for ZE PAHAPERS!'
'Broken down any doors and invaded anyones home looking for ZE ILLEEGAL RAHHDEOOOS ZAT ZEY HAF HIDDEN IN ZE SEKRET COMPAHRTMENT!'
'infiltrated anyones company, business, home, or club to get the goods on them and then turn them over to the storm troopers.

Rather.. it is quiet, peaceful, and nonconfrontational self policing actions.

So, please, kindly reduce the use of loaded words that don't fit the situation you seek to comment upon. It degrades from the points you are attempting to make.


For your information -and you obviously are not well versed in the mechanisms of how the FCC handles things - I'll take some time to assist your education.

1) The FCC takes the info and uses it to DEVELOP the case based on the initial information. THEY verify the info and take action based on their case work.

2) A 'NAL' (Notice of Apparent Liability' is ONLY generatetd AFTER a rather substantial amount of legal evidence is gathered. (Suggest you research the FCC NAL system before you make uninformed comments about how it works)

3) What the hams are doing is reporting WHAT they hear. YOu would be AMAZED at how open with information these lilegals are. #They talk about their Company, who they drive for, where their terminals of departure and drop off are, what their routes are, their names, their equipment, road intersections that they pass, the name and location of the truck stops they frequent, etc.

All we do is monitor and document what they say. #This information is collated and collected and submitted to the FCC in an organized format.

So there's no NO skullduggery or 'snitching' going on. It's just part of the effort requested by the FCC.

Another thing you need to be aware of is that the FCC does nto have the budget or manpower to spend all day/night on the road for these types of cases. So they DEPEND on those who are licensed users of the band to provide them with data which will ALLOW them to make the case to the 'upper managment' that the enforcement bureau (CIB) needs to devote the resources.

I would highly suggest that you do a bit of research on teh FCC, its operations and enforcement activities (restrictions, etc.) and also take a cruise through the history of ham radio BEFORE you comment upon a topic that you have little solid inforamation about.

It will benefit you many times over to do this.

BTW.. the illegals KNOW we are there.. they talk about uson their reflectors. We're no secret to them at all.

K3FT

[K9STH]

GHB:

Actually, the Class &quot;A&quot; and Class &quot;D&quot; Citizen's Radio Service (now called GMRS and &quot;CB&quot; respectively by most people) were originally designed for business use in the United States. Especially the Class &quot;D&quot; was intended for small businesses with short range communications requirements. However, the allowing of &quot;personal&quot; communications was the undoing eventually of both with the Class &quot;D&quot; becoming undone almost from the beginning.

The 27 MHz band is reserved for land mobile operations under international treaty which allows for business communications. Unfortunately, the Class &quot;D&quot; Citizen's Radio Service also is classified as a land mobile service. Thus, the fact that in Russia the 27 MHz band may be used for business has no bearing except that business use is definitely allowed under international treaties.

Also, you really need to tone down your accusations like &quot;Gestapo&quot; (the word really should be capitalized since it was the official name of a political/police organization in the National Socialist Germany of the 1930s and the first half of the 1940s).

You are free to disagree, or agree, with others on this forum. However, remember the &quot;rules of the road&quot; of QRZ.com

No profanity

No obscenities

No personal attacks

Otherwise, you are basically free to express yourself. But, if you violate those rules, then you will suffer consequences (like banning from being able to post anywhere on QRZ.com).

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[K6UEY]

What the hell is this stuff about &quot;the #Gestapo&quot; the &quot;Radio Police&quot; and making the reporting of violaters sound like it init self was a criminal action with this &quot;snitch&quot; mentality.This is a new low in the standards with this infantile,immature,juvenile attitude.Is this what we have to look forward to in the new 21st Century Amateur.In the effort to sink to the lowest common denominator so as to have &quot;Equality&quot; for all and to maintain &quot;Fairness&quot; they have joined the violators in the total disrepect for society and have accomplished a new record LOW. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif