View Full Version : Ignorance is Bliss
Question of the day
If ignorance is bliss, why isn't Washington DC the most happiest place in the whole world http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
KC8QMU
05-18-2004, 09:07 PM
Because when you get a step or two BEYOND ignorant, the world once again becomes a very scary place. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
KC7UP
05-19-2004, 02:08 AM
Because they know everything therefore they are ignorant. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Curt
I found this while surfing around...
http://www.earth2.net/qrz/5230471_F_tn.jpg
Came from here:
http://www.gwbush04.com/
K6UEY
05-19-2004, 09:23 AM
I am some what confused,it would appear many, at least on QRZ take and unusual amount of delight in calling Mr. Bush, the President of the United States names that infer his scholastic level was some what inferior to the norm.If most of them bothered to compare levels with the last Democratic nominee they would wonder in amazement how they could offer the class dunce for the office of president by comparison.One might wonder if the Eastern Universities no longer support the reputation that they once held.As organized labor destroys the middle class jobs, causing the work force to move west I hope they do not denigrate our scholastic system also.With the infusion into education of the Liberal Socialists, we already have more problems with the unions than our politcians can handle.
w5lda
05-19-2004, 10:02 AM
UEY,,,what the hell does organized labor have to do with the ignorance of your president? If not for my union here i would be trying to make a living on $8.00 an hour.Continue to work for peanuts if you like! As for the workforce moving out of the country, blame that on corporate greed and our government for allowing it to happen.If i had a say on that,let them move out of the country,but dont bring it here to sell!
Larry kd5vsg
W3MIV
05-19-2004, 10:17 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (oklahomasteel @ May 19 2004,06:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for the workforce moving out of the country, blame that on corporate greed and our government for allowing it to happen.If i had a say on that,let them move out of the country,but dont bring it here to sell!
Larry kd5vsg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why not ask John Kerry where Heinz has the most production and hires the most labor?
KI4FDW
05-19-2004, 11:01 AM
Seems Kerry is IGNORANT to the fact that it was his precious Bill Clinton and himself that made NAFTA possible, and signed it into law. I wish that all those that are blaming Bush for it would get over their Alzheimers!
On another note...The good side of NAFTA is the fact that now we have TOYOTA, BMW, and alot of other manufactor's making products here in the US. Myself I would much rather get paid to make a car than womens pantyhose!
73's/Kevin
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (oklahomasteel @ May 18 2004,04http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">UEY,,,what the hell does organized labor have to do with the ignorance of your president? If not for my union here i would be trying to make a living on $8.00 an hour.Continue to work for peanuts if you like! As for the workforce moving out of the country, blame that on corporate greed and our government for allowing it to happen.If i had a say on that,let them move out of the country,but dont bring it here to sell!
Larry kd5vsg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Echoing
I hate unions that create a them against us situation with Management -- really fowls things up and makes it next to impossible to do the right thing for the customers.
Thankfully, most unions today understand they must keep the customers happy and the only way to do this and keep jobs is to work with management to find win-win solutions for all parties involved.
NAFTA is a fact of life. Fact America is not capable of buying all the goods and services it produces -- we must export. We also get dollars for those exports -- which hopefully translate into jobs.
For those folks who don't like unions, watch out. #The way jobs are being outsourced there may be alot more "barganing units" out there over the next 10 years.
For those folks leading the union -- if you're going to take dues you better provide results!
K6UEY
05-19-2004, 04:19 PM
KCØLNU,
Dan,yes the Union's have been around long enough to be able to judge their results.In the 30's and middle 40's they got the attention of management.However into the late 40's and early 50's they had outlived their usefulness.WWII had provided methods by which production could be increased supplying ample profits for the share holders to get a decent return for their money and still allow #management to reward workers for their efforts.The decline of the need for unions was mimicked by the decline of their bargaining power.Union officials seeing the hand writting on the wall bought political favors to force management to hire only Union labor the "Closed Shop". No longer did the worker have the choice of representation,he was forced into a Socialized network in which a central officer bargained with management for all employees. Much like the Socialist movement we see today,everyone is demoted to the lowest common denominator and all are rewarded equally . No longer was a Technician or a Master Tradesman #paid for his knowledge and production but it was averaged out and doled to everyone on an equal basis.
Now to the success of this Socialist system you can ask some one who worked in the system,just ask a US Steel worker, or a Garmet maker ,or a shoe maker ,or a carpet maker, and the list goes on demostrating how well the system works.Of course you will have to do some searching to find one of these workers in the US,as the price of Labor has closed many a manufacture, and those who struggle to survive have moved operations to other countries,where the price of labor allows them to compete on the Global market. Yes Unions are a part of our History but so was the "DEPRESSION".
KC8QMU
05-19-2004, 05:18 PM
AH yes,
The them against us thing helps no one, for sure.
But what about when administration rapes their workforce? Is the union supposed to smile and take it up the rear? As a member of a labor union (yes I am one of probably a few that actually have to get my hands dirty here), I would be VERY upset, but I also realize that this sort of stuff DOES happen when Union leaders sometimes make "friendships" with administrators in order for "favors" to go back and forth.
Greed can certainly occur on both sides of the table.
After all, where do you think the money comes for those big administrative raises? After all, they will tell someone like me who makes $24,000 a year that they are broke and cant afford a decent raise, then after the fact they will vote to give a healthy raise to those who make twice as much as I or more!
I have to chuckle about some of the posts I see on here about how "evil" unions are as a rule. It becomes so apparent that many of those that try to preach about this have never had to live in the blue collar world! It must give you amusement to sit up on the hill watch all of us "little people" try to make ends meet!
In the end, greed has been the worst detrement to the American workforce, some of this is because of greedy unions and even more is from greedy administrations!
w5lda
05-19-2004, 08:03 PM
QMU,,well said,and for those that think they know,,quit beleiving everything you read in the local funny papers.
I am a steel worker and a member of the United Steel Workers union,so i happen to know a little of which i speak
Larry kd5vsg
k6pme
05-19-2004, 08:19 PM
If it were not for the IAFF (International Association of Firefighters) I would still be making $30,000 a year protecting multi-million dollar mansions.
Upper management (spelled CHIEF) would have been making 100,000+.
Ya wanna know what the IBEW did for my old man...
He worked as a Journeyman and a Master electrician most of his life, paid his dues to the IBEW, but his last five years he got into management... Yep got educated and became a company owner... Kept paying his dues... and then he went to retire...
The union he supported with heart and soul for all those years told him he could forget ever drawing a nickle from his pention plan...He was mangement now...
So if you union guys ever want to see one red cent of your pentions, I suggest you stay stupid and don't try to better yourself... cause it'll cost you in the end...
So much for unions in my opinion... all they did is bleed my old man... every suckin' month of his working life...
KC7UP
05-19-2004, 08:28 PM
Back in 1980 I belonged to a union called PATCO. That was the sorriest thing I ever did.
Curt
KC8QMU
05-19-2004, 09:28 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So if you union guys ever want to see one red cent of your pentions, I suggest you stay stupid and don't try to better yourself... cause it'll cost you in the end...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So I'm stupid, then? Harry, this attitude is so much unlike you from what I have read in your posts.
But it is a damn shame what happened to your father. As far as I'm concerned it is uncalled for and it is theivery on the part of the union. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ May 19 2004,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So I'm stupid, then? Harry, this attitude is so much unlike you from what I have read in your posts.
But it is a damn shame what happened to your father. As far as I'm concerned it is uncalled for and it is theivery on the part of the union. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nah, I don't guess you are unless you ever decide to do anything that will get you above the union wage... then I suspect you may lose everything you worked for...
I didn't mean it personal... but it hurts real bad when I think all the years dad worked and paid those SOBs... He was a good man, a hard worker and solid union even to his dying breath... He forgave them... I never can... He was forced to live on his Social Security for all his retired life... He died of asbestosis cancer he got from installing high voltage equipment in factories when he was young and they didn't know the hazards... It didn't show up until he was in his late seventies...
Just protect yourself... KNOW what your union rules are... I hope it doesn't happen to you... It is one of the ways the unions have in keeping people down... Once you have a big enough investment in your retirement you CAN'T improve yourself because they'll steal it from you... See, the union knows that a man with brains and one with experience makes a natural to move on up the pile to management... So to keep that from happening, they make rules like this and don't make them real public... I mean what working stiff ever reads that stuff... until its too late that is...
W5HTW
05-19-2004, 10:54 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0LNU @ May 19 2004,08:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (oklahomasteel @ May 18 2004,04<!--emo&:0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">UEY,,,what the hell does organized labor have to do with the ignorance of your president? If not for my union here i would be trying to make a living on $8.00 an hour.Continue to work for peanuts if you like! As for the workforce moving out of the country, blame that on corporate greed and our government for allowing it to happen.If i had a say on that,let them move out of the country,but dont bring it here to sell!
Larry kd5vsg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Echoing
I hate unions that create a them against us situation with Management -- really fowls things up and makes it next to impossible to do the right thing for the customers.
NAFTA is a fact of life. Fact America is not capable of buying all the goods and services it produces -- we must export. We also get dollars for those exports -- which hopefully translate into jobs.
For those folks who don't like unions, watch out. The way jobs are being outsourced there may be alot more "barganing units" out there over the next 10 years.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
America no longer produces all that much. Steel, sewing, electronics manufacturing, have all moved out of the country.
NAFTA affects only the US, Canada and Mexico. The idea was free trade, yes. So what really happened? (As a former employee of a company that depended upon NAFTA, I helped fill out the agreements and contracts.)
American manufacturers like AT&T, Phillips (not really American, but had US plants) RCA, Ford, Chrysler, GM, and many others, relocated plants to Mexico. And, yes, American union workers lost their jobs. I helped in the setup of many of those plants, making computers, TVs, garage door openers, irrigation pumps, irrigation flow controllers (even small ones for the home lawn) automobile stereos and computers, CD players, answering machines, and many, many more items. Drive along the industrial way in Juarez, Nogales, Chihuahua, Guadalajara, Monterrey and several other Mexican cities and you see only American companies.
They took a few engineers to Mexico. But they hired mostly Mexican citizens, not at 12 bucks an hour, with benefits, but at three bucks a day with no benefits. The Mexican sitting on the assembly line building answering machines, doesn't even have a home telephone! Every item produced is sent back to America (or exported to Europe.) The Mexican does indeed finally have a job, but he is still unable to buy a car, a TV or a computer.
Meanwhile the profits generated by the lower cost of manufacturing are landing in corporate offices in New York or Chicago. The stockholders are making big bucks and the CEOs are rollilng in dough. The former assembly line workers (union) in Oklahoma City are in the unemployment line, and the Mexican is looking at that answering machine and doesn't even understand why someone would want one.
Meanwhile our borders are wide open, and those Mexicans who choose not to work for GM or AT&T or Ford, cross the border and work here for cheap wages, lowering the standards here. Why hire a 12 buck an hour mechanic when you can hire a 6 buck an hour one?
We treat Mexico as our 51st state, heavily dependent upon our federal funds to support it, and unwilling to solve its internal problems, such as massive corruption, or to use its natural resources (gold, silver, oil, etc) to raise its economic position in the world. It doesn't have to! It has a huge bank just across the Rio Grande!
Mexico could build a plant that makes answering machines. Or car computers. Or pump controllers. Or TV amplifiers. But they won't. Why not? They get a taxable income from American plants located there, and it goes into the pockets of the high government officials.
The US is now called a 'consumer nation.' We make relatively few items. But when we make none at all, we will have no way of making money, so we will no longer be able to consume anything shipped in.
Unions were good when they were needed, in the 1940s, and to some extent, in the 1950s. But they gradually priced themselves out of the market. Frequent raises put union workers' salaries above those of management in non-union shops. The result was the price of the product had to be passed on to the consumer. And that car, TV or refrigerator was no longer within reach of the average consumer, so he couldn't buy it. The company closed, and the union worker was out of a job. Meanwhile the Japanese made that same refrigerator at one quarter the cost, and they shipped it here. Even with tariffs it was cheaper than the American-made one. After the American company went out of business, though, the Japanese were the only game in town. And prices went up.
NAFTA is a serious mistake. Further opening of our borders, as Vicente Fox wants, will turn our economy into the Mexican economy.
Ah, but that's just one man's viewpoint!
Ed
Do not forget to write your anti-BPL letters,
encourage new amateur radio participation and generally be nice
to one another. That is all.