View Full Version : FRS at Events
You know, love them http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif or hate them http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif, FRS are very useful. As hams, these could have some use to all of us. You know how people carry them around at event’s right? I think I know a way to use them to the ham’s advantage. If we advertise that “We Monitor FRS 6” or something, we could all monitor it, and the space between each post on most events will run the same way.
And, hams could get a GMRS license, which shares with FRS channels 1-7, which would make it easier for us in case net control gets busy on the ham side, they can have a quick QSO relating to the event on GMRS. AND, that’s not all! You can use GMRS for long range information, so even though others have a FRS, they’ll still hear the GMRS users.
So what do you say? Everyone should get the best FRS radio they can find, and take it to the next event. Find event coordinators and get the information out! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Brandon G Watson
N4BGW
DanK6DN
04-29-2004, 07:04 AM
ok. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
KC9ECI
04-29-2004, 10:00 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
"Nuts"
BG General McAuliffe
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ai4ep
04-29-2004, 12:00 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif The idea of using F R S rigs at events is good !!
short antenna
short range
low power
low i q
it all adds up to F R S !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73
---ai4ep---
W5HTW
04-29-2004, 02:31 PM
deja vu all over again
KB1JCY
04-29-2004, 11:47 PM
I'm going to Hosstraders (well-know hamfest in NH) this weekend. Seeing that both my HT and mobile have mediocre intermod rejection, I'm going to drag out the FRS. Every tool has its time and place. When 2m and 70cm is saturated, then its time to get a FRS.
When 2m FM and UHF FM gets saturated with too many signals, then it's time to grab the multimode 2M and UHF rig, switch to SSB, and drop down a few hundred kHz and have LOTS of room! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Every tool has its usage, but ifyou have all licensed folks around, FRS doesn't really do much.
If you are in a situatoin where unlicensed folks (like carpooling, out with the kids/family, or the like) FRS is great. Beyond that.. when you've got licensed folks in your group, FRS realy doesn't add much value.
YMMV
K3FT
KB1JCY
04-30-2004, 12:08 AM
K3FT,
SSB is nice but it's somewhat challenging to find an HT that does SSB these days.
kc2jga
04-30-2004, 12:12 AM
Wait until the "others" find amps for these FRS radios and screw that one up too!
There are other rigs besides the ubitiquous (sp) 'HT' HI!
BTW.. for all hams licensed LESS repeat LESS than 5 years... here's a trivia quesiton for you..
The letters 'HT' that are used in reference to the rigs we carry in our hands and we use..
1) Is there any significance to the letters 'HT'? (In other words are they simply an abbreviation we use and carry no other meaning or reference?)
2) If the answer to #1 is no, the please tell me what 'HT' might be referenced to? If the answer to #1 is YES, STOP. Go no farther!!
These following questions should NOT be construed as having an answer. I COULD just have put them there to make you THINK that the answer to #1 is YES. BUT the following may just be red herring distractor questions. <GRIN>
For EXTRA CREDIT... IF the answer to #1 is NO.. and the letters mean something.. please supply a short summary background.
FOR EXTRA EXTRA CREDIT.. if you happen to have some other specifics as it relates to the usage of the letters 'HT' in any known field of endeavour of communicaitons, please supply
***YOU OLD PHARTS, YOU LONG TIME LICENSED GUYS AND FOLKS WHO KNOW>> PLEASE!! just hang back and let the "NEW GUYS" give it a shot!!***
Back to the multimode.. I believe that Yaesu made a small multimode transciever that lots of folks used to carry around. I don't believe it was UHF.. but I believe it worked 2m. I may be wrong.. but I think my memory is not totally out of order.
73
K3FT
KC5SAS
04-30-2004, 12:52 AM
FRS has its uses. #For instance, on 2 occasions I have provided communications to the Red Cross in local hurricane shelters where the shelter managers and their staff used FRS to keep in touch. I used my FRS to monitor their activities and relay messages from the ARC HQ which was on 2 meters. #Face it. #In a large event such as a natural disaster, your Ham radio operators may be stretched thin and too busy to shadow every person who may need to relay a message to HQ. Non ham shelter workers will probably be using FRS and by having a good FRS HT you will be able to more effectivly serve your clients. I always have a pair of FRS radios in my go bag along with my other supplies.
Midland is backing a program 'Midland 1 listens' to spread the voluntary adoption of Channel 1 on CB, FRS and GMRS as national calling/listening channels. As stated before, a small sign at the door of an event announcing what channel on FRS/GMRS is being monitored by staff would allow nonhams present to get directions or other information.
Hams must be willing to diversify when providing services to events or emergency agencies. Depending on the situation you are involved in you may have to know how to operate on the Ham bands, FRS, GMRS, MURS, Business, Public safety, cellular or satillite phone. Don't focus on being a Ham Radio operator. #Train to be a Emergency communications provider.
W5HTW
04-30-2004, 01:09 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC5SAS @ April 29 2004,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FRS has its uses. For instance, on 2 occasions I have provided communications to the Red Cross in local hurricane shelters where the shelter managers and their staff used FRS to keep in touch. I used my FRS to monitor their activities and relay messages from the ARC HQ which was on 2 meters. Face it. In a large event such as a natural disaster, your Ham radio operators may be stretched thin and too busy to shadow every person who may need to relay a message to HQ. Non ham shelter workers will probably be using FRS and by having a good FRS HT you will be able to more effectivly serve your clients. I always have a pair of FRS radios in my go bag along with my other supplies.
Midland is backing a program 'Midland 1 listens' to spread the voluntary adoption of Channel 1 on CB, FRS and GMRS as national calling/listening channels. As stated before, a small sign at the door of an event announcing what channel on FRS/GMRS is being monitored by staff would allow nonhams present to get directions or other information.
Hams must be willing to diversify when providing services to events or emergency agencies. Depending on the situation you are involved in you may have to know how to operate on the Ham bands, FRS, GMRS, MURS, Business, Public safety, cellular or satillite phone. Don't focus on being a Ham Radio operator. Train to be a Emergency communications provider.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually I agree. I would much rather a ham use FRS or GMRS to talk to non-hams, than to put non-hams on the ham bands. Let's try to keep the ham bands exclusive to hams. FRS and those other services are there for the non-licensed public (GMRS requires a station license) and are useful to them.
On the other identical thread on this subject, I stated that promoting ham radio to the uninitiated should not include FRS, GMRS, MURS, and the others. It is misleading, and degrades ham radio into another "everybody and his brother' type of operation. In actual communications in an event, though, where promotion of our hobby is not the goal, I find nothing wrong with using multiple methods of communications. And intercommunication is undoubtedly necessary in 'events.' Interacting with CB has worked as well in some cases. In real emergencies, interacting with anything and everything is important.
What we need to completely avoid is presenting to the non-ham public the concept, even vague, that FRS, MURS, and the othes ARE ham radio. When that occurs, ham radio will not be recognized as being of any value, for no-one other than hams will know what it is.
At some point in the future, one station license may cover all of them, including ham radio. But at least for now, that is not the case. Let's maintain the separation, and avoid the blending and dilution of our hobby/service, as long as we can.
73
Ed
WA2ZDY
04-30-2004, 11:11 AM
I'm kinda surprised K3FT's trivia questions haven't evoked a response yet.
I agree with Ed and KC5SAS. Everything has a use. Where problems start is when things are misused.
Used properly, everything, probably even the 27 MHz CB can be useful.
k6pme
05-02-2004, 02:22 PM
K3FT, Well I can tell you what HT meant when I started chasing fires in the late 70's.
Handie Talkie. Do I win?
WA2ZDY
05-02-2004, 03:44 PM
Monty wins.
"Handie Talkie" is exactly what it means. And that is a Motorola copyrighted trademark. No radio can be "properly" called an "HT" or a "handie talkie" unless it is made by Motorola.
I have seven HTs here, and one Icom IC2AT.
Ha!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ April 29 2004,17:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Back to the multimode.. I believe that Yaesu made a small multimode transciever that lots of folks used to[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
1 if by land and 2 if by see...
Vertex/Standard MAKES a multimode UHF/VHF -- HF too -- rig that lots of folks carry around. It is, alas, too big to clip on one's belt. That's the FT-817 and 817ND.
Back to the thread... I have some FRS radio's. When parked up the hill from a supported activity, to reach a repeater, say, I can give one to the site leader and for direct commo to me. I have the RS mobile FRS's as well, contained inside a magmount for roof mounting. Not everyone we deal with has a ham license.
Cortland
The answers..
'HT' was the shorthand acronym that Motorola handhelds were known by (and still are, in some circles)
Motorola produced the 'Handi-Talkie' series of handheld rigs for low/VHF/UHF bands.
They were the HT100 series, HT200 series, and HT220 series.
The HT200 were known as 'BRICKS' because of their size and weight. They traditionally ran about 2 watts (with 5W avail) and were H E A V Y! (The cops loved 'em! They could be thrown as well as talked over.. pity the poor bad guy who gets CLONKED over the head with a well thrown/aimed HT200! HI)
The HT220 was the successor to the HT200 series. It, like its predecessor, came in lowband, HI-band (VHF) and UHF flavors.
It was, and still is, one of the most WELL RESPECTED and WELL USED handhelds around. It came in single, dual, 4 and 6 channel versions. There was.. even.. a 12 channel but that was special order and had an extra channel deck added to it.
It was rugged.. durable.. the batteries lasted a decent time (Save the 5W version when you were a 'heavy handed yakker' HI)
It came with wall charger, desk charger, speaker/mike, speaker only. It had tone (Motorola's trademarked name was "PL" for "Private Line".
You still hear guys (me included) use the term 'PL' for tone and 'HT' for handheld, even though Motorola trademarked the term 'Handi-Talkie'. < I never heard of them taking anyone to court for using 'handi-talky/handi-talkie' in any case so it's a moot point)
I owned MANY HT220's and a couple HT200'.S dureable.. nice, reliable, and could be worked on (reasonably well) withpout having to have #50 fingers and a electron microscope to see the parts!H I)
And that.. is the REST.... of the Story!
(IT's a true...... value!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K9STH.. Please chime in with more details an dbackground. I know you have plenty.
**NOW!!!! Here's the REAL trivia!1!**
GLEN! YOU CAN'T ANSWER!! (until they all GIVE UP)
Somone says to you.. I have an HT220.. model H23FFN series..
Question. What band was that for?
How about if someone said.. I have a U41BBT? or maybe 4ER series (GE)?
AND FOR REALLY TRIVIAL PURSUIT... I have an AO1 and an AO2.. WHAT DO I HAVE??
Have fun!!
K3FT
K9STH
05-03-2004, 03:31 AM
My senior year at Georgia Tech I established the first Motorola portable and pager repair facility anywhere outside of the plant (which was in the Chicago area - before the establishment of the Florida operations).
At the time, the carving on the face of Stone Mountain was in progress. Basically, this carving is on the face of the outcropping and is about 500 feet from the summit to the ground level (don't quote me on this height, I am working from memory!). One of the security guards was leaning over the rail at the top of the mountain when his H23DEN (highband HT-200 - real HT-200 the DCN versions were not actually called HT-200 by Motorola) slipped out of its holster and fell to the bottom of the mountain.
Of course the security guard as petrified! He knew that he was going to be in for a severe "scolding" if not more. The HT-200 was brought to me to see what could be salvaged from the unit. Basically, the telescoping whip was broken and there were some deep scratches on the metal cover! The State of Georgia decided that I needed to replace the cover and the antenna. I checked out the unit and it was working fine!
Motorola had a museum in Chicago of radios that had survived all sorts of mishaps and continued to function. They tried to get this particular radio for that museum. The authorities at Stone Mountain refused saying that if the radio had survived such a fall (it actually hit the side of the mountain 3 times on its way down) then they most certainly were going to keep it in service!
By the way, the 5 watt and higher powered versions were available in the PT-300 series which were the "lunch box" and not the true "Handie-Talkie" versions. Motorola also make a full sized collapsable low band antenna for the PT series. This was over an inch in diameter and came all the way down to 6 inches. But, when it was extended it was 8 feet tall!
It was not until the HT-220 series that the 5 watt versions were available in the "normal" portable versions. Also, the HT-220 units were no where near as "well built" in terms of the cases as the HT-200 series. They were rugged, but the HT-200 units were virtually impervious to anything!
Now, is the H23FFN "slim" or "omni"? The H33FFN came only in "omni", but the H23FFN could be either!
There was an original A01 and an A03, but I don't know if Motorola actually every built many (if any) A02 units (those would be for the 70 MHz band). Now, the primary difference between the L01, L03, and L04 series and the M01, M03, and M04 was the color of the case and the antenna that was available! What were the colors of the cases?
If someone said that they had a U41BBT I would say where did they get it! The "B" transmitter was a "2-gun" portable (H11NBC and H13NBC) and the "B" receiver was used in the Pageboy I pagers (H01BNC, H03BNC, and H04BNC). The "B" transmitter was used with the H01ANC and H03ANC separate receivers (you wore the transmitter on one side of your body and the receiver on the other side!). The receiver had a "proximity" circuit that shut down the audio if the signal strength exceeded 300 microvolts so that you did not get "feedback" from the transmitter!
There was a U41GGT and U51GGT, but the only BBT versions that I have ever seen were U44BBT. Also, there were U43GGT and a very few U53GGT in the 10 inch housings. Motorola did make a very few U43GGT and U53GGT in the 15 inch housings but those were mainly made for AT&T to use as pseudo car telephones. The U53GGT used a 5894 in the final instead of the 8298 that the U43GGT used. I had one of the U53GGT units on 151.955 MHz when I first owned the Motorola reconditioned equipment center. Gave it to one of my employees when I went to a U73MHT series.
Motorola did take some of the early amateur FM manufacturers (primarily Japanese) to task for calling their units by Motorola registered trademarks. This was in the early to mid 1970s. Those who were "contacted" did decide "real fast" not to use Motorola's trademarks in their advertisements any more!
As for amateurs calling radios by Motorola's trademarks that are not made by Motorola, all that they can do is to keep advertising their trademarks and indicating them as such. It is like most people call any brand of copier a "Xerox" and any copy a "Xerox copy". But, Xerox is very protective of their trademarks and will come down hard on anyone who uses those terms in an advertisment, magazine article, etc., when the reference is not to a Xerox product.
Now, when I make a copy it is truly a Xerox copy! I have a Xerox XE-80 sitting on the shelf next to my CPU!
Glen, K9STH
W0LPQ
05-03-2004, 03:52 AM
FT: Stilll have my GE 4ER28 Receiver that I got from Collins in the late 60's. Our security people used to use them. The transmitter was long ago discarded, but the receiver has had an outboard 2 channel oscillator. For its time, the sensitivity was not bad. That dumb little stainless whip has long been recycled.
Nice history lesson from STH/FT..! What else would we expect.
Now if we can talk Chris (ZDY) with sharing more of his historical items..?
73
Bill, W0LPQ
WA2ZDY
05-03-2004, 08:30 AM
Historical items . . .
I wish I had a Motran.
I have an HT200 now. Mine is an H21DCN-1100A. 1.4w out is what the service manual says it's rated. Mine is on 29.6. And yes, I've made contacts with the HT200. I have the 38" pull-out whip with the little loading coil that plugs into the external antenna socket.
The first contact I made (aside from inside to outside in the yard!) with it was a Sunday morning. I had 29.6 in my scanner and it stopped on a station (I can't remember his call now) in East Texas. I took the HT outside, pulled up the whip and called. Voila, I got him. Talk about a thrill! But that also proves that 10 is nearly magic just like 6.
I also have a PT300 that works but I've never made the switch to 29.6 for that one. Maybe when the sunspot cycle comes around. But I need a service manual for it.
I have some HT200 receivers and transmitters here on high band. One day I'll find a use for them. The cases are gone as the chrome was peeling off the backs and they really weren't safe to handle. I've picked chrome out of my skin before. No fun.
The most "historical" rigs I think I've used on 2m were a Hammarlund FM50 (don't see many of them around!) with a 6146 in the final. The other, one I am sooooooooo angry about not having photos of, was my brother's GE PreProg base (speaking of 4ER stuff . . . ) Mine was a 4ER21A1 receiver and 4ET1E1 transmitter. It was on 146.52 and I never measured the output to see if it was really working. This was in a 6 ft rack frame (no cabinet) in my bedroom when I was a teenager.
The receiver and transmitter were both open chassis, no cabinets for them either, hanging in the rack frame. The transmitter used an 829B in the final for 50w out. I had wired up a remote control head of sorts for it using rotor cable and a handset/hangup box across my room where my low band rig was on the table.
Other historical stuff . . . I think those are the most "interesting."
I'd love to hear other stories. And Glen, thanks for the detail on the old stuff. I had an old Tpower tube type mobile Motorola on 2m as a kid, but I don't remember the model number. I remember it drew almost 50A key down, and that was a hell of a lot for my Pinto! It was one of the ones with the T handle and hollow case. What a monster THAT was.
K9STH
05-03-2004, 03:14 PM
The Hammarlund FM-50 was officially known as the "Outercom" (as opposed to an "intercom" between an executive and his/her assistant!).
Then there were the Bendix "widow makers" that had a removable cover and you used the two brackets that supported the cover as handles. But, the final plate connection was about an inch below one of these. Even if you did disconnect the power cables, the electrolytics held a charge for quite a while and if you did not "short out" the plate cap to ground before you grabbed the handle, you got a very good lesson in capacitor energy storage!
Somewhere, I think I still have either a U43LLT or U43MLT Motran. 30 watts, completely solid state, takes Motrac accessories. You had to be very careful when tuning the transmitters (like follow the "book" exactly!) else you could "wipe out" the final transistors!
I still have a 12 frequency Micor that Motorola started making for EMS service (highband unit, of course). I gave away my 4 frequency D34CMT 15 watt "Mocom 30" 450 MHz rig that I had on the 70 cm band. Prior to being called a Mocom 30, that series was known as the "Business Dispatcher".
Does anyone remember actually seeing any of the Motorola "U" series dash mounted? I have seen plenty of the old vibrator units (actually a "T" - trunk mount unit with the dash mount control head) and even some "T" power units dash mounted, especially in trucks (including pickups). However, I have only seen a "handful" of Motracs mounted as dash mount units. Also, have seen a number of the "U" version "Mocom 30" units mounted on the dash, but they were really dash mount units that were redesigned for trunk mounting as well.
When I was a junior in college and was working for the Motorola Service Station in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the major customers (had over 300 mobile units) was a dairy company (this was in 1965 and home milk delivery was still the "norm" in Atlanta) that used T43GGV (highband vibrator units) that "hosed" out the entire vehicle every evening. This included the cab as well as the cargo area of the delivery trucks. Every day they got several radios very wet! The "standard" procedure was to change out the radio with a spare, bring the "wet" radio back to the shop, and put it in the sun for a couple of days. If the weather was bad, we "baked" them in the oven in the break room!
Then there was "Central Metals" which actually was a garbage pickup company. Frankly, there was more filth in the cab than in the "cargo" area of the trucks! This system was on the old Class "A" Citizen's Radio Service (460 MHz, T44AAV series equipment). The radios were installed right next to the driver with the control head mounted on a bracket that was attached to the case. The most "junior" of the technicians (which was me when I was around the shop - fortunately got sent into the field a lot!) got to work on those radios! Everytime I had to work on one of those, when I got home (originally to my fraternity house before I got married and then at our upstairs "duplex") I had to remove my clothes when I "hit" the door since I smelled worse than the back of the garbage truck!
There were the Motorola "railroad" units. These were basically the same "strips" as used in the "A" (FMTRU-140D dynamotor units) but had a 115 volt AC supply (the railroad engines had an auxillary generator to produce 115 VAC). If I was lucky, the radios were installed in the cab. Unfortunately, over half had been installed within the power compartment of the engine. These engines were never "shut down" unless they were actually being overhauled. As such, I had to enter the power compartment, which, during the summer months was well over 160 degrees F, use some sort of rag to grasp the handles on the individual units, and remove them. I have seen solder that has gone "plastic" in the power supply sections (60-40 tin-lead solder goes plastic at 183 degrees C and melts at 188 degrees C) and, in a couple of cases, actually melted!
Anyway, things like getting stuck at the 600 foot level of WAII tower (the elevator got stuck) and things like that make for some really "tall" tales (but true!).
Glen, K9STH
A01 and A02 were (as my -sometimes- faulty memory) the final tubes for Motorola power amp. They were EIMAC ceramic tetrodes which were Motorola marked.
I owned, proudly, and operated U41GGV and U43GGV mobile rigs with the METAL 'TOOTH BUSTER' microphones.
It was kinda neat to turn the 'ON/OFF' switch on, see the green 'ON' pilot light illuminate and then listen for the 'UMMMMMMMMMM' of the vibrator and THEN the 'whhOOSSSSSSSHHHHHH' through the speaker as the receiver warmed up and then the squelch circuit would kick in and quiet the receiver.
You'd key the rig and hear the vibrator hum deepen as the load from the TX would be applied.
ONE WARNING!! NEVER! EVER! EVER forget those metal mikes are made of metal! ALWAYS bring them up slowly towards your mouth! if you don't.. you will bruise your lips and MAY cut the insides of your lips as your skin gets impaled against your teeth. (O U C H!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Plus you buddies all accuse you of having a rather poor aim when making out.
I had a 12 channel 110W Motrac as well as the usual cast of Motrac/Micor stuff over the years. One thing that was a side benefit of having THOSE rigs..
NEVER, EVER.. did any of my high school buddies EVER think about messing with my car. BEtween the 'police looking' Motorola control heads, the well-intalled Antenna Specialist 'through the body' mobile whips and the fact that the installation was done with safety and professionalism in mind they all thought I was 'somehow involved with some kind of enforcement agency'.
I NEVER disabused them of those thoughts. If it helped them decide NOT to mess with my car.. so much hte better!
73
k3FT
K9STH
05-03-2004, 08:08 PM
FT:
The A01, A03, etc., were tube type monitor receivers with "alert" tone capability. That is what comes to my mind when you say A01, etc.
Motorola used a lot of part numbers that ended up with A01, A02, etc. Also they had some transistor part numbers that ended up with such designators. Those suffixes just designated various "culls" having to do with various parameters.
As for microphones: First of all, Motorola used to put a pamphlet in with every microphone that they shipped showing the correct way to use a hand-held microphone. You hold the corner of the microphone to the edge of your mouth and talk ACROSS the microphone and NOT into the microphone! This prevents things like breath noise (from the air as you talk hitting the microphone).
As for the metal microphones: Motorola started shipping the plastic microphones in late 1964 with the Motrac units. Prior to that, all of the microphones had been heavy metal. Now, most customers wanted the new, lighter weight, plastic housing microphones. However, the taxi drivers would get very upset if you replaced one of their metal microphones with a plastic one. It seems that the plastic versions didn't make that good a "billy club"! When the cab driver got an "unruly" fare, someone tried to rob them, etc., they would swing the metal microphone on the end of the cord right up against the person's head! Did a pretty good job of "defusing" the situation! I have had to clean hair, blood, pieces of teeth, etc., out of the grills on metal microphones (which attests to the fact that the cab driver did use it as a weapon)!
Glen, K9STH