The WORST President in US History

I recently heard some 'other side of the aisle' politician make the statement, in public, that 'President Bush is the worst President in U.S. history!'

That statement was made with the typical impassioned, strident, energetic tone of voice that indicates that the speaker believes it, accepts it, and wants the strength of his passion convince others.

Well, a little digging into American history tends to refute those statements. Sourcing of the historical facts should NOT be required UNLESS you are unaware of the history of the United States.

This material was provided TO ME by a person who found it having been published in a Durham, N.C. newspaper.
K3FT
==================
Worst president in history?

(The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. )

One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S history.

Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on terror.

Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.
============================
FDR led us into World War II.

Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
an average of 112,500 per year.
================================
Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.

North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
an average of 18,333 per year.
==================================
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.

Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
an average of 5,800 per year.
===================================
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.

Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.

Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.
==================================
In the two years since terrorists attacked us,

President Bush has liberated two countries,

Rushed the Taliban,

Crippled al-Qaida,

Put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,

Captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year.

Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
====================================
Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
========================

[W4MAJ]

Well said, I could not have stated it better! Now if you'll excuse me my other hero, Rush Limbaugh, is on.

[k7dlx]

Rush Limbaugh?

HMMPH!

WAY too liberal for me!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KB9YCO]

HOWARD STERN FOR PRESIDENT !

[K3UD]

The titles for best and worse presidents often get fuzzy via the blur of history. It is always amusing when the College history or sociology professors get together to update the lists.

Cases for the worst president can certainly be made for some, perhaps Andrew Jackson, Herbert Hoover, Warren Harding, and Lyndon Johnson, but these, and others were overtaken by events happening in their administrations which they had little control over.

In my lifetime, based on research and being there, I think we have had generally good presidents with the exceptions being
Nixon (second term), Carter, who was an outstanding human being and humanitarian, but seemed to be naive about presidential power and US power and how to project it and Johnson, while he did a lot of good in the civil rights arena will always be remembered for Vietnam

The best presidents since I have been alive come down to a close race between Reagan and JFK. Both understood what had to be done, both were avid cold warriers and both achieved a tremendous amount Both understood the US role in the world and knew how and when to use and project power.

George H.R. Bush and GW are close behind for much the same reasons. As they also did or are doing what needed to be done.

Bill Clinton did a credible job in the domestic area by letting the corporations basically run the economy which led the the economic boom we enjoyed for those years in the 90s. It is interesting that Bush gets critized for attempting the same thing. Clinton also projected power when he had to. He was not the monster that some on the right would have you believe.

Eisenhower seemed to be a lot like Bill Clinton as he kind of let the country run itself and had some boom times in the 50s. Jerry Ford was a caretaker and the Ford Rockefeller combination was unusual in that both of then were not elected to the office (how many remember that Nelson Rockefeller was his VP?)

I was 1 year old when Harry Truman left office. From what I have read he was also a man of action who really did not vacillitate. History seems to have treated him better thanhe got while he was president.

73
George
K3UD

[W3MIV]

I will disagree about JFK, but agree about Reagan. JFK was a good man, but a dilettante. His actions in Cuba at the Bay of Pigs were a fiasco because he started something he was unwilling to take to full term. Later, with the missile crisis, he did a better job, although many would now disagree because of his tacit agreement to commit the US to a hands-off policy where Fidel is concerned. He did in fact start the Viet Nam ball rolling, and a poor, befuddled Lyndon Johnson, as Spike Lee might say, tried "to do the right thing." JFK's worst mistake, and the one for which we are still paying, was his choice of the "best and brightest." McNamara and Rusk were a disaster.
Harry Truman, a truly great and wise man in most ways, was as instrumental with civil rights as LBJ would later become. Truman, however, was naive; needing the French votes in the new UN (FDR had put the French and the Chinese in seats of power without thought of the consequences) denied a request from a little known Viet leader named Ho Chi Minh to help the Viet Minh throw off the mancles of colonialism.
Pigeons always come home to roost.

[KC7UP]

You guys better watch it for the homeland security is patrolling the internet along with the skies.
Curt

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7UP @ April 15 2004,10:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys better watch it for the homeland security is patrolling the internet along with the skies.
Curt[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How do you know I'm NOT homeland security?

[K9FV]

I had always wondered about why we sided with the french when Viet nam was wanting their freedom from the french.... to buy the french vote. Makes sense now.

BUT was it not Eisenhower that got in involved with Vietnam in the 50's when he sent &quot;advisors&quot; over to help the french defeat the freedom fighters in Vietnam? I had always heard that Kenndy was actually getting ready to move the advisors out of Vietnam before he was killed?? Comments?

Ken H&gt;

[W3MIV]

Eisenhower had to react to the SE Asia situation that developed with the downfall of Dienbienphu and subsequent French retreat (deja vu). [I should insert here that China, by this time, had gone over to the Communists and the thug Chiang Kai Shek had fled to Formosa; Korea had burst on the scene and only recently been cooled down (by no means a victory), and old Ike was sitting in a hot place.] He sent in advisors to the South because it looked as though the North was going to invade and conquer the entirety of what became Viet Nam after the UN worked its usual magic (had been Indochina, which we called French Indochina).

Several historians show that Ike advised Kennedy not to get more involved, but the actual record is not very clear and could be interpreted in other ways. Remember, this was a time of high tension. Francis Gary Powers had met a missile over Russia, old Nikita was banging shoes in New York. Lots of stuff going on. [Again, I should insert that Fidel had just taken over Cuba from Fulgencio Battista, a pawn in the hands of big Sugar and big Fruit interests and announced his Communism.]
JFK's big problem was the people he chose to listen to. There is an argument that he was, indeed, considering some sort of reduction or pull-out. Again, not clear in my mind by what I have seen.
Lyndon had zip experience with foreign affairs, desperately needed some allies within an administration that had made him even more of an outsider than FDR had made Truman, and he relied upon what he had. And the rest is, as they say, history.
Lucky us!

[kc0ebm]

K3FT,

Fantastic thread! I loved your opening post. Really puts things into perspective. I'm impressed.

Thanks and 73

Tom

[K0RGR]

The main body of this post seems to be making the rounds of the right-wing websites. There are a few facts that are in dispute:

1. FDR did not unilaterally attack Germany. Japan attacked us, we declared war on Japan, and Germany declared war on us. I suppose we should have waited for the SS to invade New York? Shame on us for picking on the poor Nazis.

2. Korea was a UN action. OK, so we twisted their arms. But still, it was an International action - not unilateral. OK, so Truman responded to North Korea's shelling of Seoul a bit prematurely, but did not invade nor drop a $trillion worth of ordnance on them until he had allies.

3. Eisenhower sent the first observers to Viet Nam. I haven't been able to establish how many were there when Kennedy took office. Bobby Kennedy always contended that his brother was going to pull out after 1964, and there were documents that seem to at least prove that it was being strongly considered.

4. Yes, Johnson did screw up, and pretty much admitted it. He simply did not want to be the first president to lose a war, and welcomed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution as a green light to send combat troops. At least he had the moxie not to run for re-election. We had allies in Viet Nam, too.

5. Bosnia was a NATO operation - once again , multinational -

6. Clinton's people claim they gave the OK to assassinate Bin Laden, but the CIA didn't carry it through. The CIA blames the Clinton State Department. Rumsfeld says that even if they killed Bin Laden, it wouldn't have stopped 9/11 so who cares?

I need to do some research - who were our allies in the invasions of Grenada, Panama, and Beirut?

I won't get into who's the worst president in U.S. history, but I've also been around since Truman and while I did vote for Reagan twice, I have never voted for a Bush and I do not intend to start. I'd vote twice for Nixon first. Other than small income tax cuts, most of what this fellow's done benefits a fairly small circle of corporations, mostly HQ'd in Texas, and some of his 'improvements' have cost my family dearly. (Hint: &quot;No Child Left Behind&quot; should be called &quot;Kick Every Child's Behind&quot; - there are hidden cuts that achieve exactly the opposite of the promised benefits, while setting the stage to force us all into vouchers to pay people to send their kids to religious schools.)

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K0RGR @ April 15 2004,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">....I have never voted for a Bush and I do not intend to start....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Does this mean that you think John Kerry can or will do anything positive for this nation? As the Duke of Wellington once said, &quot;If you believe that, you could believe anything.&quot;

[W9LQI]

Bush and Company created a night mare in Iraq. He failed to finish the job in YA land and it'll soon be a most wanted. Warlords got different ideas, don't ya know. He benefited big bus to the expense of the middle class and, yes, part of his contribution package for re-nonelection resulted in the sell out of your HF RF spectrum to big business interests and the power companies. He's a lier, plays to the red neck mentality, wants desperately to be a cow boy landing on aircraft carriers but was a war dodger (too busy raising money for the Party). His appointee, Mr Powell, the bloated, is wetting his oversized fat assed panties to push thru changes in Part 15 so the manufacturers and the power companies can stomp you when you complain that you can't hear your ham buddie on the radio down the block. The manufacturers claim adaptive technology don't ya know (translation, they paid off the Bush campaign so's the FCC Cheerleaders rewrite the rules to work for the BPL crowd). Ain't that soft money from special interests wonderful?

Oh, and yes and I hear that George, the unelected, is just waiting to sign a hold harmless bill regarding any possible breakdown in those high voltage coupling capacitors when and if they break down and flood your home with about 5 KV. Aint that BPL wonderful. Remember, it's a Bush thing, &quot;Boadband For Every Household&quot; The mantra for the campaign trail.

Yes, in my judgement, Bush is the worst mess that ever hit this country, him and his lying vipers in the Beltway.

Now remember, Bush and his appointees, all tight with big business interests, are the ones that are robbing you of your quiet enjoyment of the high frequencies, and they did it out the back door, why ain't they the greatest....... Oh yes, Cincinnati is coming soon, full bore BPL, just in time for the re-nonelection campaign rhetoric. In a few weeks (just after approving the rewrite of Part 15 and adoption of the same), just ask any Cincinnati ham and for that matter any one who can hear the din, what they think of Mr Bushes busy works in the Beltway.

So all you die-hard &quot;Bushies, Bu####es, and Bushismos&quot; enjoy yourselves, and oh, while you're at it you may want to find a new avocation, such as sweeping up after the rich and their overample tax gimmies. They'll need a lacky, don't ya know. Yup, GOD, Told him to do it!

Hutch
W9LQI

[W3MIV]

The thread of your reasoning, your train of thought, Hutch old buddy, looks to have been laid out by a spider on amphetamines.
At the moment, it seems that the Kerry kamp is depending more on so-called &quot;soft&quot; money than is Bush.
Don't deprecate folks who have enjoyed more success than you, rich folks are the ones who create jobs. Without them, what would most of us do?

[K3UD]

I like JFK because of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was 11 years old when it happened and I watched everything about it on the nightly TV news. My father, who served with Patton's army in Europe (among others) was also watching and got to the point where he really felt we were going to war, and it was going to be a nuclear war.

All the TV networks had the East coast maps with potential targets circled based on the type of missles Castro and his advisors had. Philadelphia (we lived in the suburbs) was circled.

This was a time when air raid towers still existed around Philadelphia and we had a few Nike missile sites either operational or ready to go operational but it was not bombers that would come, it was missiles and the Nike was impotent against them.

There were several people in our subdivision who had built fallout shelters in the late 50s and everyone was wondering if they would let others in. We were terrified and even thought about going to somewhere in the Mid West if it looked like it was going to happen.

This was also the era of Duck and Cover (Bert the turtle) and it was being shown in the the public schools (I went to Catholic school and we relied on the power of prayer). The air raid siren was tested at least once a day, we had conelrad on the radio (640 and 1240 on your radio dial, and many tests) and we were to have a few minutes warning before impact. In the end, there was nothing we coould do except go on with life and wait. This was and still the most defining moment of my life.

I was scared to death and prayed every night that God would not let it happen. Kennedy somehow pulled a rabbit out of his hat and the strategy that he and his brother settled on worked.

I later years I have read almost everything in the public domain concerning the Cuban Missile Crisis and have come to the conclusion that if JFK took any other course than what he did, it would have been a disaster of world wide proportions. This is why I said that JFK knew how and when to use power and project power. Maybe he was just lucky....but I think not.

This was probably as close as we have come to a nuclear holocaust and it would not have stopped at the East Coast of the US. B-52s and B-47s loaded with nukes were in the air and the missiles we had were primed to go. At the very least the retrubution against the Soviet Union and Cuba would have effectively destroyed those countries and killed untold millions, maybe 100 million or more people. Eastern Europe and a lot of Asia would still be feeling effects of something like that.

Like George Bush today, JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis was largely a one country, one person, going at it almost alone, show. Sometimes one person and one decision makes all the difference.

73
George
K3UD

[ki4bgo]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Don't let 'em sway ya' Hutch! That was the best post I've seen in a LONG time, around this slightly right (wrong) leaning forum! They hate the truth, don't they? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KC7UP]

Man I can see this will never be solved. I was in China aboard ship in Tsingtao when it fell to the communists. I was aboard an aircraft carrier that launched the first strikes in Korea. I got the Truman exta year to my hitch. I didn't like Truman then however now He was the man. He had integerity. None since have had.
Curt

[K0RGR]

Well, so far, I like Kerry, in spite of his aristrocratic background. #Like Al Gore, he deliberately went to Viet Nam for two tours of duty instead of going to work on election campaigns in Alabama.

He seems to connect pretty well with us commoners, and gives the impression that he is listening to us.

I think I believe that he learned something from his three Purple Hearts and other decorations earned in close combat, and that experience should be part of the man who decides when we go to war. #Kerry commanded a swift boat in the Mekong River delta. They were sent up the river to provoke firefights with the VC and &quot;show the colors&quot;. The mortality rate for such naval personnel was extremely high. If anyone on Earth has the right to complain about the idiotic conduct of a war, it is Kerry.

People keep asking what he's going to do differently as compared to Mr. Bush. #

I believe that where Mr. Bush pushed away our allies, Mr. Kerry will renew those ties. Are we citizens of the leading nation on Earth, or merely subjects of the biggest power?

I'm concerned about the elimination of the tax on million dollar estates. Such laws were put in place by our founding fathers to prevent the creation of a landed aristocracy in this country. Now, we will see the wealthy get wealthier from generation to generation. When will too much wealth be concentrated in the hands of a few? Have you ever been to Guatemala? A handful of people there own all of the land. We could be Guatemala in a generation or less.

If someone criticises Mr. Kerry, I don't think he will attack them personally as Mr. Bush and his proxies have done again, and again , and again. When Mr. Bush uttered the phrase &quot;...there are consequences...&quot; when asked about the comments of the Dixie Chicks, he crossed the line of decent conduct in office. I don't care if Clinton fornicates with everybody in Washington, he never threatened anyone for using their free speech.

As for the conduct of the war, the Democrats have to walk a tightrope on that subject. Kerry should do what Nixon did - promise that he has a 'secret plan to end the war'. Maybe nobody will remember that the secret plan was to let the communists win. #If he is seen as criticizing the conduct of the war, he will be accused of attacking our military, which I am certain he does not intend to do.

Kerry has served with distinction for 20 years in the Senate. This makes it easy to smear him based on all of his past votes. #Members of Congress have to vote for things they don't like. #I wonder how many times the President's father voted in favor of Federally-funded abortions when he was in Congress? I bet he voted for them every time he voted in favor of a federal funding bill. I wonder how many times he voted to kill various military projects?

Mr. Kerry proposes to make changes in our tax code that might slow down the outsourcing of American jobs to India long enough to let our economy recover and let Americans retrain for new jobs. However, since about 60% of American corporations already pay no taxes under Bush, changes to the tax code probably won't help that much.

So, yes, I think I will be willing to give Kerry a chance. It's a long way to November, though.

[W3MIV]

K3UD:
Nothing I posted earlier should be taken to mean that I did not like JFK. Feet of clay, he was still my hero, and I too watched the TV coverage. Only difference is that I was of an age that resulted in a light tap on the shoulder by my good Uncle Sam and I got a new suit of clothes. Whole different perspective. (You might look me up on &quot;get callsign&quot; above for a photo from that time frame).
The prayer obviously worked; we did not go to war. Ol' Nik backed down and the ships turned round.
JFK was struggling with re-election worries when he made that last, fatal trip to Dallas. I don't think he would have been re-elected.
The single biggest thing that made Landslide Lyndon's landslide real in 1964 was the &quot;little girl&quot; TV commercial. Remember that one?

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7UP @ April 15 2004,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man I can see this will never be solved.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh, yes it will. On Tuesday, November 2, 2004, it WILL be solved. Stay tuned, as they say.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif so sad...after the tv cameras go OFF the crowd loses its enthusiasm and wanders off, leaving Mr. Kerry with no one to talk to. It is almost like a war protest. Please do not get those films mixed up. ---ai4ep--- {Praise the Lord }

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7UP @ April 15 2004,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Man I can see this will never be solved. I was in China aboard ship in Tsingtao ....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Never been there. Pretty fair bottle of suds, though. Thanks for your service, Curt, and that is not idle QRZ prattle. It ain't a nice job, but somebody's gotta do it. My feelings are now with the guys and GALS (God love 'em) now serving in Iraq. My old 3ID. Rock of the Marne.

[W3MIV]

Brings back memories.

I wouldn't give a bean
to be a fancy-pants Marine
I'd rather be a dog-faced soldier like I am;

I wouldn't trade my old ODs
for all the Navy's dungarees
for I'm the walking pride of Uncle Sam;

On a poster that I read it said
the Army builds men
So they're tearing me down
to build me over again.

I'm just a dog-faced soldier
with a rifle on my shoulder
and I eat raw meat*
for breakfast every day;

So feed me ammunition
keep me in the 3d Division
Your dog-faced soldier boy's OK!


*Bert Gold's original lyric had &quot;raw kraut&quot; but by the early 1960s we were making an effort to be nice to the Germans and word was changed in the &quot;official&quot; version. You can imagine how many grizzled, old vets from the previous twenty years greeted that!

Off topic, but nostalgia is hard to combat—no pun intended.

[K6UEY]

Exceptional Topic, excellent posting,at least up to the point where the Liberals started coming out of the wood work with their normal rhetoric. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[W9LQI]

To W3MIV.

Man you are gullable. Good God, they got you hook line and sinker. Was it at the NASCAR races appealing to the Red WEhite and Blue or was it in some phony money raising deal to sell out the hams on a Bushiak weekend that you fell into your mezmorized swoon. Man that Bush bunch of vipers have worked their Voodoo on you, dude, now haven't they.

I betcha your kid aint serving in Vietarq, is he or she? Nope to smart for that sort of folly, send the poor kids there, yup, they deserve it, don't ya know

Talk to me in the summer, guy, after you lost the use of the rf spectrum but just maybe with your tone of opinion, you'ere helping with the sell out.

Oh, by the way I am a CPA, chum. I just don't like liers, carpet baggers, beltway vipers and creeps that like to sell my entitlements out the back door.

See Ya,

Hutch
W9LQI

[W3MIV]

Hutch, ol' &quot;chum&quot; (among fisherfolk this not a term of endearment):

Glad you are a CPA. Your career as an English teacher would be short indeed.

[W8FAX]

....ol' &quot;chum&quot;.....????? kewel

[w0dz]

Actually, I think there's a possibility that Bush will go down in history as one of our greatest presidents. (Contrast that to Clinton who is still trying to define a legacy for himself.) These are historic times, and Bush will be remembered for taking decisive action to start to fix a problem that has plagued the world for at least 30 years. He has surrounded himself with some of the best and brightest talent around. He manages like a CEO (and I mean a good CEO like the vast majority of companies today, not the few bad apples), encourages dissent and discussion, and then takes action based on data. And he has vision. That's the mark of a great leader. He even tried to work with Ted Kennedy, who turned around and stabbed him in the back.

Contrast that to his competitor - a self-decorated Purple Heart who served in Vietnam for 4 months then turned on his country and became an anti-war activist who now wants to be Commander-in-chief during a time when war has been declared on us! He's a career politician who has never amounted to anything in his life. I shudder to think what his administration would do to this country.

Liberals who think Bush wasn't elected fairly should study the Constitution harder and get over it. Then they should try to find someone as moral and decent and able to come up with solutions as Bush. All Kerry does is whine about not using the UN (we are, actually), and try his best to be on both sides of any given issue (&quot;I voted for it before I voted against it&quot; are his watchwords).

Let's see what Bush can take credit for: a booming economy (after inheriting a recession from Clinton), two successful wars, bringing democracy to the Middle East, vanquishing a ruthless dictator, passing an education bill drafted by Kennedy, drug benefits for seniors, starting to work on the illegal alien problem, giving clear new marching orders to NASA to revitalize our space program. Seems like Bush has done more good in 3 years than Clinton did in 8.

Final vote: Bush 59%, Kerry 36%, Nader 4%, the rest 1%. You heard it here first.

The only real question is what to do with the 41% that's not got a clue what this country is all about.

[K9STH]

RGR:

Kerry did NOT volunteer for 2 tours of duty in Viet Nam. In fact, he was there just about 4 months during which time he applied for 3 Purple Heart medals. The regulations in place at that time were if one got 3 Purple Hearts that they could request transfer back stateside.

Kerry's 3rd medal was at first denied. He then transferred and kept &quot;badgering&quot; his new commanding officer for his 3rd medal. Finally, according to the officer in question as of a couple of days ago, he (the commanding officer) got so tired of hearing from Kerry every day about the medal that he approved it basically to get rid of Kerry.

The 3rd metal was for a minor &quot;scratch&quot; supposedly from shrapnel. However, according to several of the men who were with Kerry at the time, there was no enemy action in the area at all. In fact, they said that there was no action at all! The piece of shrapnel that Kerry displayed was actually from U.S. ordinance.

The other 2 medals that he was awarded were for very minor injuries that, according to various Viet Nam veterans' organizations, most men so injured never even had the &quot;wound&quot; looked at by medics, let alone apply for a Purple Heart.

Now, George W. Bush DID volunteer for Viet Nam. However, the aircraft that he was flying at the time, the F-102, was not being used in that theater of action. Also, it was determined by the Air Force that his level of expertise would require additional training in a newer type of aircraft and that they did not wish to expend the money that it would take to train him for a job that they already had plenty of pilots qualified.

Al Gore was assigned basically as a news photographer behind the lines in Viet Nam. Also, according to those who served with him, he was protected at all times by &quot;body guards&quot; since he (Gore) was the son of a very important Senator.

At least one Viet Nam veterans' organization has requested a full inquiry of Kerry's medals, especially the 3rd one. Considering the political climate these days, I expect that any such investigation will not be conducted at any speed. That is, the results, if it does happen, will not be disclosed until after the election if they are released at all.

Kerry's wife refuses to release her tax returns (the Kerrys file separate returns) although he (Kerry) keeps saying that everyone should be fully &quot;open&quot; in their dealings! Seems like a &quot;dual&quot; sense of responsibility to me!

Anyway, only time will tell as to who will be elected in November.

Glen, K9STH

[W9LQI]

This is the W3MIV, &quot;Ole Chum&quot; Political Aspiration and persuasion Testing Site.

Now in order to qualify, you need only to answer the enclosed Questions. In order to save us from the wrath of the detailed annul W3MIV, this simple test will be true or false or pick the best answer from the series. After completing the test, just send it in to me with a small fee of $25 for grading and, of course, a large wall sized award for your, well, wall.

So here goes now, ....&quot;Ole Chum&quot;:

1. The present sitting pPresident was elected by the majority of the U.S. registered voters. true or False.

2.

[K9STH]

2. The sitting President of the United States was elected under the provisions of the Constitution of the United States of America by a majority of the Electorial College. This provision having been in place since the adoption of the Constitution and having never been ammended to remove this requirement.

Or, to put it in a more easily recognized format: Do you want to be governed by the people in California and New York (maybe Ohio) and not have a voice in your government?

Remember, on a county by county basis, George W. Bush won considerably more than Al Gore. It was just in certain metropolitan areas that Gore got a substantially larger vote.

Glen, K9STH

[KA8NCR]

It just amazes me that the only claim to fame that Bush has is that he's running around killing people. The OP in particular, the thread is nothing about war.

Let's not forget that presidents don't DIE during war; he pays young men and women to do the dying. But we'll look past this whole war theme and I'll toss in a few other tidbits.

Bush has racked up another trillion dollars in debt. Who do you think pays this? Bush, Cheney and crew will long be worm food before this is paid off. The people paying it are our children and children yet to be born. This doesn't bother anyone?

I don't want to hear any claims that this debt was a matter of survival. That's baloney. Fifteen-billion of this was airline bail-out post 9/11, eighty-billion for rebuilding Iraq.

And while we're on a that recuring war theme ... Iraq didn't attack us.

[KA8NCR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ April 15 2004,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. The sitting President of the United States was elected under the provisions of the Constitution of the United States of America by a majority of the Electorial College. This provision having been in place since the adoption of the Constitution and having never been ammended to remove this requirement.

Or, to put it in a more easily recognized format: Do you want to be governed by the people in California and New York (maybe Ohio) and not have a voice in your government?

Remember, on a county by county basis, George W. Bush won considerably more than Al Gore. It was just in certain metropolitan areas that Gore got a substantially larger vote.

Glen, K9STH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Give this man a carrot for understanding the power of the electoral college.

Never, ever think that the popular vote is in your best interest.

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9LQI @ April 15 2004,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is the W3MIV, &quot;Ole Chum&quot; Political Aspiration and persuasion Testing Site.

Now in order to qualify, you need only to answer the enclosed Questions. #In order to save us from the wrath of the detailed annul W3MIV, this simple test will be true or false or pick the best answer from the series. #After completing the test, just send it in to me with a small fee of $25 for grading and, of course, a large wall sized award for your, well, wall.

So here goes now, ....&quot;Ole Chum&quot;:

1. #The present sitting pPresident was elected by the majority of the U.S. registered voters. #true or False.

2.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Run out of steam, Hutch, ol' &quot;chum?&quot; Or was 2 as far as your accountancy has yet progressed?
And, why ol' &quot;chum,&quot; would I send you my large, wall-sized award?
Prose is such a challenge, isn't it? Perhaps you would do better sending it in code?

[K8EEI]

Subject: BUSH RESUME

George W. Bush The White House, USA

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving
under the influence of
alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for
30 days. My Texas
driving record has been &quot;lost&quot; and is not available.

MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to
take a drug test or
answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard,
I was able to avoid
combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.

I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in
the oil business in
Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in
Texas. The company went
bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball
team in a sweetheart
deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our
right-wing friends in the
oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favor
power and oil
companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure,
Houston replaced Los
Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the
Texas treasury to the
tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by
any governor in
American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my
father's appointments
to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in U.S. history to enter
office with a
criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of
over one billion dollars
per week. I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
I shattered the
record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history. I set an economic record
for most private
bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most
foreclosures in a 12-
month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of
the U.S. stock market.
In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that
trend continues every
month. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history.
My &quot;poorest millionaire,&quot; Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker
named after her. I set the record
for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S.
and world record-
holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime
campaign contributor,
and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate
bankruptcy fraud in U.S.
History, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate
attorneys to assure my
success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision. I have
protected my friends at Enron
and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was
spent investigating the
Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest
corporate rip-offs in
history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused
to intervene when
corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest
gasoline prices in
U.S. history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be
awarded government
contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any
President in U.S. history.
I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the
history of the United
States government. I've broken more international treaties than any President in
U.S. history. I am
the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S.
from the Human Rights
Commission. I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow
inspectors access to
U.S. &quot;prisoners of war&quot; detainees and thereby have refused to abide by
the Geneva Convention. I am the
first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during
the 2002 U.S.
election). I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any
President since the advent
of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any
one-year period. After
taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security
failure in U.S. history. I
garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and
less than a year
later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of
diplomacy in world
history. I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
simultaneously protest me in
public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any
person in the history
of mankind. I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,
pre-emptive attack and
the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the
United Nations, the
majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I have cut health care
benefits for war veterans
and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families
--in war time. In my
State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then
blamed the lies on our
British friends. I am the first President in history to have a majority of
Europeans (71%) view my
presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting
development of a nuclear
&quot;Tactical Bunker Buster,&quot; a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my
pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to
justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now
in my father's library,
sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into
my insider trading and
my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All
records or minutes
from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy
policy are sealed in
secrecy and unavailable for public review.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY
VOTER YOU KNOW http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[n3ijw]

Debunked (http://www.crossbearer.com/resume/The_Truth.pdf)...next?

[W9LQI]

Hot Darn, this challenged Berowser of Mine loaded my reply before I had a chance to complete my noodled &quot;thread&quot;. So here goes again.

This is for the benfit of ole Chum W3MIV, who sez my spell checker are challenged.

I have composed the W3MIV Memorial Political Aspiration testing Site (for the benefit of you readere, my dog gone browser went'n sent it fer i was dun.

So akay this is the real thang.

In order to avoid W3MIV's castigations on my spell checker, I'm a giving this here simple test using true or false and pick the best answer. Again, after competing it send it in with a small $25 fee, er donation, for grading it and a large award will be a coming ur way.

So here goes ole Chum:

1. (You'll get this one cause I let it slip) The present sitting President was elected by the majority of the registered voters. True or False.

2.

[W9LQI]

Man, this is one touchy browser. Scroll up for beginning and 1. So here goes again.

2. The sitting President sort of looks like Alfred E. Newman, if you think about it for a minute or two.
True or False.

3.The present sitting President appointed the present presiding FCC commissioner. True or False.

4. The present presiding Commissioner is the son of the Secretary of State. true or False.

5. The present presiding FCC Commissioner is qualified for his present duties because:

A. He is the son of Colin Powell.

B. He doesn't give a darn about the rf spectrum and present licensees.

C. He and his assistant commissiners are lackeys of big business interests.

D. He will take all the money he can get and say, &quot;now what part of the rf spectrum do you want?&quot;

E. All of the above

6. Based upon W3MIV's comments, he would appear to be a right winged brain washed bigot who equates everyone who doesn't buy the present administration's lying song and dance, hook line and sinker, a liberal.

A. True

B. False

C. Well Maybe

7. The November 2 2004 election is not so much right wing or left wing or conservative (what ever that means) or liberal (what ever that means) but in fact is a referendum on the lousy job the present Administration is doing. True or False.

8. BPL is the brain child of Alfred E. Bush, who is promising Broadband in every electrical outlet before Novemeber 2nd. Further more, Alfred E. Bush Broadband Plan is most objectively and impartially administered by the Commissioner Powell. True or False, or true or False and False or ...well, you know what I mean.

Now remember, all you gotta do is connect them thar dots, don't ya know and ur sure to win a prize, and the prize is ................Well we're a waiting for your completed test and that twenty five bucks rat now.


Remember No Peaking and No Cheatin,

Htch
W9LQI

[W3MIV]

Golly, Htch, ol' &quot;chum,&quot; would you repeat that question?

And if you paid money for your spell checker, please call me at 1-255-555-1234; have I got a deal for you!

[wd5kca]

My &quot;poorest millionaire,&quot; Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker
named after her.



Why is this such a bad thing?

[KC2HJN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3ijw @ April 15 2004,17:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Debunked (http://www.crossbearer.com/resume/The_Truth.pdf)...next?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is mostly spin, and actually admits many of the points on the 'resume' are true.

Spin you say? No way!

Well, I'll give you an example.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">• Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

President Bush has not signed any laws amending the US Constitution. Only Congress can pass a law amending the Constitution and they have not done so since 1978. (Source: The United States Constitution Online)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

While it's true the constitution was not actually ammended, we can all understand that what was meant is that many laws signed and actions taken by Bush and congress (under pressure from the Bush administration..remember all the &quot;un-american&quot; rhetoric about anyone who disagreed) are in contradiction to the constitution. (ex. the US Patriot Act)

So maybe the word ammended was wrong, but it doesn't change his unconstitutional deeds.

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2HJN @ April 15 2004,18:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So maybe the word ammended was wrong...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Indeed, in more ways than one.

[n3ijw]

You got that backwards...the &quot;resume&quot; is mostly spin.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">remember all the &quot;un-american&quot; rhetoric about anyone who disagreed[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
no, I just remember a lot of post-9/11 kneejerking from all sides.

[KC2HJN]

Ok, this will go no where. Let's face it. Both of the current candidates stink.

This is who would get my vote if he ran.Rep. Ron Pearl &reg; from Texas (main site) (http://www.house.gov/paul/)

Read his weekly columns linked on his page to get an idea of his thinking (or just click here :Weekly Columns (http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/welcome.htm))

What do you think of this guy?

[K6UEY]

The next TOPIC will be entitled&quot; How to Ruin a perfectly #good informational topic and display your ignorance in one post or more #&quot;. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
It would appear that Historical Facts are in short supply to a large portion of the populace,must be one of those 21st Century things they brag about. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K9STH]

Real history doesn't sell newspapers or make good network television commentary!

Glen, K9STH

[n3ijw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2HJN @ April 15 2004,20:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok, this will go no where. Let's face it. Both of the current candidates stink.

This is who would get my vote if he ran.Rep. Ron Pearl ® from Texas (main site) (http://www.house.gov/paul/)

Read his weekly columns linked on his page to get an idea of his thinking (or just click here :Weekly Columns (http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/welcome.htm))

What do you think of this guy?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Paul is a fine man and one of the few congressmen I really respect. I don't see eye to eye with him on everything but that's nothing new.

Yes, there are definitely better candidates. GWB will somewhat reluctantly get my vote but I am not going to feel guilty about it either.

[k6pme]

The worse President ever? Your all wrong. It was Abraham Lincoln.

He was the only President to have use an army to destroy an amendment. Granted, it did bring about the United States as the greatest nation on earth and end the immoral and unethical practice of chattel slavery. Regardless, the Civil War was constitutionally illegal.

To paraphrase the 10th Amendment, &quot;If it is not specifically permitted........it is States rights exclusively&quot;.

[k0ews]

Worst President? #I am not entirely sure. #It could be Herbert Hoover, or even Warren Harding; possibly Taft, but in my lifetime, I have to go with Jimmy Carter. #I love the man as a human being, and he would have made one hell of a Secretary of State or something, but as President? # Nope. #Kinda like the really good offensive coordinator of a football team that gets a head coaching position and proceeds to go 1-15. #
As for Bush? #I'm not crazy about him, but I'm less crazy about Kerry. #My favorite President was Harry Truman. #He had seeds, and wasn't afraid to call it like it was. #George Washington also comes to mind; the only NON PARTISAN President in History. #Clinton did some good stuff, but remember, he balanced the budget with the help of a Republican Congress, and enjoyed use of a line item veto for 3 years until the Supremes struck it down in 1998. #He did balance the budget, and did a pretty good job overall. #I also liked Reagan, and FDR, and Teddy Roosevelt. #Worst Rap in History? #Richard Nixon. #Other than Watergate, he was effective as hell. #Was the last President before Clinton to balance the budget(during Vietnam, of all times), ended the war in Vietnam, opened relations with China, and got the Russians to sign the SALT treaty. #Sadly, his legacy will forever lie with Watergate, which wasn't even necessary(like McGovern was going to win in 72?!?!?!....not.)Interesting thread. #Thanks for posting.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9LQI @ April 15 2004,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">&quot;Bush and Company created a night mare in Iraq. He failed to finish the job in YA land and it'll soon be a most wanted. Warlords got different ideas, don't ya know.&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As I stated in another topic... Isn't it amazing that the same people critical of Bush for not doing enough to prevent 9/11 are the same to criticize him for his move on Iraq.

Hutch... Picture us playing the Chamberlain game if you will.

Saddam has used WMD's in the past and had 5 years to hide them really good from 98 (When he kicked the UN inspectors out) to 2003 (Gulf War II).

Saddam gives the terrorist something to use against us and we ignored the potential warning? Now 250,000 (as an example) are dead from Ricin (as another example) in a modest sized city here at home.

I can hear the liberals now...

Ted Kennedy:
&quot;WHAT!! Where was Bush on this?!?! Asleep at the wheel??? He is at fault!! He didn't heed the warnings and failed to do something about it!! He was out chasing cattle down in Crawford while he let thugs plan, execute the plan and then kill our own innocent citizens!&quot;

You know full well you folks would have blamed Bush for not doing anything had something like that happened. A few years later, another &quot;9-11&quot; type commission would be held (more like trying to find someone to blame rather than find the fixes to prevent a future attack) and more politicized posturing from these hearings would go on then too. The hearings going on now are nothing more than politcal points gained by biased politicians at the expense of the taxpayer (Yet the liberals whine about the taxcuts).

Either way... Nothing is ever good enough when the liberals are out of power and bitter about it. You can't have it both ways Hutch and you know it!

Terrorist don't care what political affiliation any of us are... They want us dead and will do anything to do it. These factions dividing us are POINTLESS while an hidden enemy conspires to kill us all.

BPL is small marbles compared to this. Although BPL is an agitant much like an annoying fly that one will try to kill but is not quick enough.

If you plan to vote for Kerry because you are agitated at Bush and blame him for BPL, then fine. What if Kerry sees BPL as yet another tax opportunity? Think BPL will be removed? If that is such the case... Will the grass the Kerry camp sits in actually any greener? But don't let my opinion sway you.

My one big issue that I have with my boss is the fact he seems lethargic at doing anything to curb the influx of illegals into our country. He is walking a thin line in dealing with a pourous and vulnerable border on the Southern U.S.

Response to K8EEI.

That is some list you have there. All though I dont know everything and not much into politics but must make some review of your comments.

His criminal record of course wasnt hidden, and he also did admit to smoking the weed. Who in their lifetime has ever not done anything stupid?

I cant comment on anything to do with his governership in Texas since I didnt live there at the time. Yes, he lost the popular vote but as one other person if not more, he won the electoral college vote. Oh, which is by the way constitutional.

Yes of course he occupied to countries. Do you remember 9/11 ? Who in their right mind wouldnt go and bring terrorist to justice? Who cares about the money. If your going to put a price tag on human life like that, then just a sad difference of opinion. Oh, and BTW, the people of the US fully supported both conflicts.

You also stated he is responsible for the most bankrupticies and job loss. How much of that was because of 9/11 ? And how come this is all blamed on the president? Why not your local politicians? Your mayors and govenenors? They also hold the same responsiblities when it comes to jobs.

Gas prices. Yes, when you go to the gas pump, the prices are the highest ever seen, but lets look at inflation. Mathematically, gas now is still cheaper than it was in the 70's. Besides, blame OPEC, not the US government for that as well.

President Bush never at any time lied about his reason for attacking Iraq. He made this decision on intelligence reports given to him from the FBI, CIA, and other sources. I would like to see proof otherwise. Not what the democratic party speculates. Besides, Saddam is now no longer in power. Its agreeable that is a good thing. All though no WMD have been found (yet), he did possess the equipment to develop them. He also used such weapons. Oh dont forget that Congress granted Bush this power to go into Iraq without UN approval. The vote wasnt exactly a thin win either. Even Kerry voted yes on this one. I guess Kerry cant be all that bad now. Of course now, hes switched his views. So who knows what he is really for.

As for anything else I didnt comment on, I just dont have enough knowledge to respond to it all.

Well what I believe in is the I dont care how much it costs, if I could I would pay for it all to insure world security and the saving of human life. You cant put a price tag on that. And President Bush in trying to achieve those goals. Its an up hill battle, but a battle that we should continue to fight. Anything less means that we just dont care.

73's -- Pat

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8ncr @ April 15 2004,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It just amazes me that the only claim to fame that Bush has is that he's running around killing people. The OP in particular, the thread is nothing about war.

Let's not forget that presidents don't DIE during war; he pays young men and women to do the dying. But we'll look past this whole war theme and I'll toss in a few other tidbits.

Bush has racked up another trillion dollars in debt. Who do you think pays this? Bush, Cheney and crew will long be worm food before this is paid off. The people paying it are our children and children yet to be born. This doesn't bother anyone?

I don't want to hear any claims that this debt was a matter of survival. That's baloney. Fifteen-billion of this was airline bail-out post 9/11, eighty-billion for rebuilding Iraq.

And while we're on a that recuring war theme ... Iraq didn't attack us.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

&quot;It just amazes me that the only claim to fame that Bush has is that he's running around killing people. The OP in particular, the thread is nothing about war. Let's not forget that presidents don't DIE during war; he pays young men and women to do the dying.&quot;

And where did you get your news and ideas from? A.N.S.W.E.R.? Not in our Name?

It's opinions like yours about us who serve in the uniform that do nothing more than to trivialize and attempt to demoralize what we are in certain places of the world to do. I find your comments disturbing and not truly supporting the troops there. Not supporting us as in pulling out and leaving Iraq in shambles as we turn tail and run (aka Somalia). Frankly (IMHO) it borders on sedition.

Read the post I responded to Hutch in. I know you and people like you who think this way would have blamed him for his lack of not doing anything to prevent an attack like that, had it happened.

&quot;The people paying it are our children and children yet to be born. This doesn't bother anyone?&quot;

Paying for this how? Via our childrens blood? What is your answer to to solving this?

On your other point. Yes, the spending needs to be quelled. But does that mean tax us like Kerry wants to do? What about the money being spent on a wasteful commission that has a political agenda like the 9-11 commission?

[W9LQI]

Dear Kd4LEI:

You are in need ''o&quot; remedial training so scroll back a couple of pages and take the Bushiak knowledge test send in your $$ and you'll be blessed as knowledgeable and less gullable person cleansed of your ignorance and sinful ways. Tis a shame to buy the Bushiak line hook line and sinker that anyone who dares to disagree with Bush and his den of vipers is a liberal. There are those who feel he is a misrepresentation starting with his non-election. He has carried forward faithfully, however. So we'll have some more fun as time goes on. Ah go on and drop another WMD on Iraq, that'll getem in line. Yes, aint democracy wonderful. Gosh, why don't they see it our way ,.......guzzle guzzle, Gawd, My Hummer is outa gas, jus need another hundred gallons, oh hell next stop Libia, aint that guy a problem too??? What's hiz name now? Alfred E. Bush'll git em. Yup, he's our hero cowboy an Pres too.

In Ur Face

Hutch
W9LQI

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9LQI @ April 15 2004,22:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dear Kd4LEI:

You are in need ''o&quot; remedial training so scroll back a couple of pages and take the Bushiak knowledge test send in your $$ and you'll be blessed as knowledgeable and less gullable person cleansed of your ignorance and sinful ways. Tis a shame to buy the Bushiak line hook line and sinker that anyone who dares to disagree with Bush and his den of vipers is a liberal. There are those who feel he is a misrepresentation starting with his non-election. He has carried forward faithfully, however. So we'll have some more fun as time goes on. Ah go on and drop another WMD on Iraq, that'll getem in line. Yes, aint democracy wonderful. Gosh, why don't they see it our way ,.......guzzle guzzle, Gawd, My Hummer is outa gas, jus need another hundred gallons, oh hell next stop Libia, aint that guy a problem too??? What's hiz name now? Alfred E. Bush'll git em. Yup, he's our hero cowboy an Pres too.



Hutch
W9LQI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You know through all the drivel that you seem to spew, I could have sworn you were trying to say something. But I regress because it seems you have nothing constructive NOR condusive in your constant rambling of your reply to present an argument worth reading.

What's wrong? Too mad to get out what you were going to say? It seemed that way towards the end of your response.

So from this member of the Armed Forces... Nice try, but elite's like you seem to think we're a bunch of murdering warmongers with a limited capacity to think on our own...

Bottom line, we know you and people like you hate the military and the people who serve.

&quot;In Ur Face&quot; &lt;---Now there's the elitist mentality at it's finest! Mature might I add...

[k5rna]

I ususally don't get in to the political frays aas there are no winners.Only wonder if we are missing something here.Here where i l live in Ft Worth,Tx.Where we have a joint reserve base.And our military guys and gals who come back from Iraq seem to want to return.They say they had rather fight the terrorist over there now so their childern won't have to do it later and maybe over here.Same for the troops returning to Ft.Hood in Waco,many wounded .And last,All of this anti what ever stuff can be read by the terrorist in our own country and any where else in the world.Something to ponder i would think.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k5rna @ April 15 2004,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I ususally don't get in to the political frays aas there are no winners.Only wonder if we are missing something here.Here where i l live in Ft Worth,Tx.Where we have a joint reserve base.And our military guys and gals who come back from Iraq seem to want to return.They say they had rather fight the terrorist over there now so their childern won't have to do it later and maybe over here.Same for the troops returning to Ft.Hood in Waco,many wounded .And last,All of this anti what ever stuff can be read by the terrorist in our own country and any where else in the world.Something to ponder i would think.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sadly Tracy... That is exactly why Al Jazeera replayed Ted Kennedy's statement, &quot;Iraq is George Bushes Vietnam.&quot; Sure did some good now did it? The same news outlet who pounds its chest by airing Bin Ladin videos. Yet the same mentality and statements are being echoed by the likes of W9LQI and KA8NCR, to include a few more on here.

They are entitled to their opinion, but I honestly think they're wrong. Yes, they will state the same thing about my comments.

But, the real truth can be found through a soldiers eyes in all of this regarding terrorism and Iraq.

[K6UEY]

KD4LEI,
Chad, just to let you know, I and many others agree,we are with you.We support the President GW and what he is trying to do for the Middle East,and back all the troops who are LITERALLY putting their lives in jepordy to protect those of us who are here at home. Many do not post as it is really useless to try and explain anything,when the Liberal mind has been brain washed in the public schools and they begin to believe the Socialist propaganda as being the real world. Keep in mind the world they come from discourages any free and individual thought,the goal must be for all to #equally mire in the same ignorance. It has been stated many times in posts here and described as the demise of Amateur Radio ,and that is reduce every one to the lowest common denominator,and thus achieve EQUALITY,or as generally titled&quot; The Dumbing Down of America&quot; one of the most successful projects the Socialist Educators have completed in the last 35 years .I share advice that was offered to me in a previous post and &quot;don't let them grind you down into the dirt &quot;

[N0PU]

LEI:

I don't think you are a murdering anything...

I have the ability to support our Military 100% for their ability and their skill in what they are doing...

However, I also have the right to disagree with the order to do it in the first place...

I absolutely agree with the Afgan invasion... They were/are harboring Bin Laden and his followers... and THAT snake pit needs to be cleansed...

Iraq on the otherhand has since 5 or 6 or more years ago been neutered as far as world threat is concerned...

I KNOW that Sadam was a tyrant and his kids were worse, but they were NO direct threat to the USA as far as I can see... WMD in Iraq was and is a joke... and if it weren't for you folks having to put your lives on the line [I did my share of that too so I'm not exactly talking out of my hat] that whole thing would have been laughable....as it is it is a crying shame...

AND...If we intended to go after the funding of the Bin Laden terrorists then we would have approached the Saudis and several other countries that are off the Bush RADAR...

I still contend that Bush Jr is/was trying to live up to daddy's actions... and he just ain't got it... It may be that daddy is living vicariously through Jr and talked GW into cleaning up the mess he left over there... I heard daddy Bush talking in an interview on the History Channel not long ago that he felt that he should have continued on into Iraq when he had the chance... It makes me mighty suspicious about the whole thing and what the real aims are in the White House... Is it really what is good for the USA as a whole or are we trying to 'make up' for a past failure [at least in the Bush family minds] ...

Bin Laden was/is a threat... Sadam was/is NOT... There is a difference...

I hope you can understand how those of us who feel this way can support our Military [after all it IS your job to follow orders, no matter how ill conceived they may be] and still feel the orders were wrong headed from the beginning...

Vietnam was wrong headed but we did our jobs to the best of our ability... Iraq is wrong headed and you folks are doing as we did; your jobs to the best of your ability... I commend you for that... I only wish it was a worthwhile project!

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k0ews @ April 15 2004,21:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Worst President? #I am not entirely sure....
.....Thanks for posting.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Good post. Truman was, indeed, an excellent president, but he too made some serious misjudgments. Most salient fact for everyone to remember: the job is not a simple or easy one and the stakes are enormous.

Y'know... I read posts made by folks (on both sides of the issue) and many are decently presented points and opinions.

Even those on the left, which I don't agree with by and large, are worthwhile reading when they are thoughtful.


But.. then you have such postings as those by LQI (I use his as an example of the CLASSIC liberal response mode)

Rather than just discuss the points, one by one, and offer some reasonable refutations or rebuttal he IMMEDIATELY resorts to the tatic of placing all sorts of labels, attaching all sorts of perjorative, negative commetaries, and other such things.. Meanwhile, he interlaces his commentaries with a tidbit or two of information.

This is a classic methodology used by the left ever since my personal knowledge exists - which is about 1962 or so.

It seems that whenever they CAN'T respond to the SUBSTANCE of an issue, they resort to the name calling, labeling, and other things which are, most assuredly, designed to act as distractors from the real point - NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE!

I'm sure there is an official term for such a tactic, but I don't recall it, at the moment. But as one man said when asked about what he considered obscene, he said 'I may not be able to define it, but I knows it when I sees it!'

The left would be FAR better served if they would simply stick ot the basics.

Make the point.
Back it up.
Reason and think THEN post
Leave out the ad hominen, personal attacks, labeling, and such.

it ONLY serves to reinforce that the left has NO real ammunition other than 'NYAH NYAH! I'M RUBBER YOU'RE GLUE! WHATEVER YOU SAY BOUNCES OFF ME AND STICKS TO YOU!&quot; sandbox attitudes that adults long ago moved away from.

Reasonable men disagree and empassioned debates are fine. But resorting to having to label your opponents with names, labels, and such along with deriding them (and then statinng 'facts' without any evidence to support it) tends to drive others to dismiss you as not worthy of comment or even reading.

That does your side no good.

Again.. not a pick on you, personally, but you are the most overt example on this thread so it was needful to point it out for educational purposes.

I don't know it this info will do any good, but it does put you on notice that your posts have tended to make people NOT read (or they read and just move onward) without posting anything.

Just 2.5 cents worth.
K3FT

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 15 2004,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#Yes, the spending needs to be quelled. #But does that mean tax us like Kerry wants to do? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Who is &quot;US&quot;? ....Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there? Think before you say US! Kerry, like most Democrats, is for MORE tax breaks for those who need them, and LESS for those who DON'T! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ April 16 2004,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The left would be FAR better served if they would simply stick [to] the basics.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And the nation would be FAR, FAR better served it they would just go away.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n3ijw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes BGO, everyone who makes more than $X per year is a lying, cheating right-winger, because its not possible for people to become successful otherwise.

[K0RGR]

Looks like my last post didn't make it -

The charges regarding Kerry's medals are covered in some detail on the 'Urban Legends' website:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

You can read the comments from the CO that nominated him for his medals, and judge for yourself. With three legitimate purple hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star in only 4 months, either his CO was criminally insane, or Kerry was one bullet shy of the Medal of Honor.

I knew a couple other guys that were officers on those swift boats, and I wouldn't have been able to handle 4 days, let alone 4 months. His rotation to Cam Ranh Bay and eventually home was earned. This story keeps changing too. First they questioned his first Purple Heart, now it's the third one. I guess that sounds better.

Three Purple Hearts and two Stars make a Full House. That beats a Flush.

The current drumbeat from Republican Central is that criticizing the President or any member of the Republican Party is aiding and abetting the enemy, so I won't dwell on the fact that Kerry has more combat medals than Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, the entire cabinet, Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Will, Mr. Safire, and Mr. O'Reilly combined.

I suppose that smearing a war hero's record is a great way to win an election, though.

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,04:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 15 2004,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#Yes, the spending needs to be quelled. #But does that mean tax us like Kerry wants to do? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Who is &quot;US&quot;? ....Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there? Think before you say US! #Kerry, like most Democrats, is for MORE tax breaks for those who need them, and LESS for those who DON'T! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Basically all Americans... #

But how about those liberals that make over 250k who rant and rave about those who don't vote for the Democratic party but want to sock it to em?

Why is it I don't see anyone on the left rant and rave about their money being overtaxed? #As long as it those wicked right-wingers money and not ours, so be it!

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0PU @ April 16 2004,02:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LEI:

I don't think you are a murdering anything...

I have the ability to support our Military 100% for their ability and their skill in what they are doing...

However, I also have the right to disagree with the order to do it in the first place...

I absolutely agree with the Afgan invasion... They were/are harboring Bin Laden and his followers... and THAT snake pit needs to be cleansed...

Iraq on the otherhand has since 5 or 6 or more years ago been neutered as far as world threat is concerned...

I KNOW that Sadam was a tyrant and his kids were worse, but they were NO direct threat to the USA as far as I can see... WMD in Iraq was and is a joke... and if it weren't for you folks having to put your lives on the line [I did my share of that too so I'm not exactly talking out of my hat] that whole thing would have been laughable....as it is it is a crying shame...

AND...If we intended to go after the funding of the Bin Laden terrorists then we would have approached the Saudis and several other countries that are off the Bush RADAR...

I still contend that Bush Jr is/was trying to live up to daddy's actions... and he just ain't got it... It may be that daddy is living vicariously through Jr and talked GW into cleaning up the mess he left over there... I heard daddy Bush talking in an interview on the History Channel not long ago that he felt that he should have continued on into Iraq when he had the chance... It makes me mighty suspicious about the whole thing and what the real aims are in the White House... Is it really what is good for the USA as a whole or are we trying to 'make up' for a past failure [at least in the Bush family minds] ...

Bin Laden was/is a threat... Sadam was/is NOT... There is a difference...

I hope you can understand how those of us who feel this way can support our Military [after all it IS your job to follow orders, no matter how ill conceived they may be] and still feel the orders were wrong headed from the beginning...

Vietnam was wrong headed but we did our jobs to the best of our ability... Iraq is wrong headed and you folks are doing as we did; your jobs to the best of your ability... I commend you for that... I only wish it was a worthwhile project![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A post and argument worth reading!

K6UEY and N0PU thanks for your support even though PU you may not agree, but your response is leagues beyond what LQI sputtered out.

As far as WMD, I had heard something on the Neal Boortz show yesterday about Al-Baradai (SP?) and something about radiation readings from a satellite and a building torn down in Iraq before gulf war II. I didn't get to hear all of it since issues at work took some precidence at that moment and I missed it. I am trying to go back and find any news articles related to what he was talking about.

I'm not so sure it would be a wise thing (any political party would have to agree) to attack Saudi Arabia. Although I think it might be warranted. However, we would ignite the wrath of every Muslim from here to Jakarta and back for invading their holy land and its shrines.

Whether or not Bush Sr and Jr got together and had Jr to drum up a plan go after Iraq is nothing more than speculation without corroborated facts. Which is the liberals defense to our argument and point on WMD's still being somewhere in the region of/or in Iraq.

I'm not going to argue with you per se' on your support for us and again I thank you. However, I would think 5 - 10 years from now there will be more to the story and some surprises and I told you so's for both sides.

I agree that Vietnam probably should have been watched, but left alone. However, Johnson had to be involved in the decision making of targets and whatnot. So, I think the outcome may have been different had he left it up to the 4 stars who are paid to do the wargames.

KI4BGO noted &quot;Who is &quot;US&quot;? ....Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there? Think before you say US! #Kerry, like most Democrats, is for MORE tax breaks for those who need them, and LESS for those who DON'T!&quot;

To which I reply (with a look of GREAT PUZZLEMENT upon my face)

&quot;AHH!! I understand it now! #$300K is the dividing line!

OK! #You have just included EVERY media personality (Rather, Brokaw, Jennings, Chung, Couric, et al) AS WELL as those 'OVER $300K' publicly avowed Hollywood liberals (Alec Baldwin, Barbra Striesand, Ted Turner (OH! He's a 'over $300K corporate cheat!') and the rest of them) #in the SAME camp as 'right wing corporate thieves!&quot;

Wonder how they'd like it being called 'corporate thieves'?? I think they might just object, strenuously, to the label your broad brush has painted them with.

Oh yes.. kindly tell me HOW John F. Kerry (husband of the wife of the Heinz fortune and one who ALSO has been quite 'over $300K' himself which puts him into YOUR defined category of 'over $300K corporate theives'' escapes the broad brush?

Just curious.. Shall I pass your comments along to them and see what they say?

Not trying to pick on you, simply asking the logical question.

K3FT

[KD4LEI]

Interesting...

TERESA FIGHTS TO KEEP HER TAX RETURNS PRIVATE (http://drudgereport.com/rc8r.htm)

[K3UD]

WOW, quite a thread.

Does anyone find it interesting that almost EVERY sitting American President has been called the worst president by one group or another while they were in office? Remember when Reagan was labled as the antichrist?

It is also interesting that most who complain about big oil drive cars and (OH MY GOD...SUVs!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and have plenty of possessions that were either made from oil derivatives or run on oil and gas? (to be fair, there are some who eschew oil and oil based products as much as they can) It is also interesting that many here do not like rich corporate executives who make over a certain amount of money, but love Kerry and other wealth Deomcrats (Sorros, Kennedy) who are worth millions, and there are those who beat Bush over the head about outsourcing while H J Hienz closes some production in Pittsburg and moves it to Mexico.

Any one know what happened to Al Franken and the Air America experiment?

73
George
K3UD

[KC2HJN]

To those reading this who are/were in the military, I would like to echo some of the comments by N0PU.

I do not support Bush on many points BUT this in no way means I have any problem with the men and women who protect our country. You deserve our utmost respect and are the very reason I CAN get on this board and badmouth the president if I disagree with him. When people say they don't agree with the war in Iraq, they are not (except for some, who ARE morons) putting our military down, but only our leaders who have made some bad decisions in the past few years.

So, please, if you took anything I have written in this thread as a put down to the men and women who defend our country, I apologize....it wasn't intended that way. You have my respect.

[W9LQI]

For the benefit of the likes of KD4LEI and W3MIV in particular, I will side with K3FT, who shows some intelligence.

LEI and MIV need to clean their deaf ears out with a sharp stick so they can allow the voice of reason to penetrade their BS laiden brains, to receive therapy, so to speak. As an RX I thinjk you need to spend more time listening to Mr Kerry, who sepaks good French (as opposed to Alfred E. Bush, who cops a litlle espanol. Comprende? Uppp aint that the same dude allowing uncontrolled cha chas over the border? huh? As a second therapy, try listening to what the President of Islam said, starts with large corporations waging war, like Hall........n, huh?

Might try listening to NPR, Front line, and a few of the few objective cvommentaries left on the air regarding the Corporate style prosturing of the present Bushiak administration. Bushisismo does like the put downs but is so short on substance, huh? &quot;You didn't give me that question before hand in writing so my handlers sez I shouldn't answer that question&quot;, huh? (Two nights ago on television).

We do have a first amendemnt right to state our opinions and the truth, in spite of the fact that you have trouble handling it.

For you Bushimismos (military arm chair generals), we did start the war in Iraq using lies and misinformation. Now they got their Big Corporate buddies running a Corporate army charging the tax payer big $$$$$$$ for their bungling. As a tax payer, I'm not interested in that form of Corporate entitlement.

So I'm going to vote the BUM AND HIS CARPET BAGGER LYING BUNCH OF VIPERS OUT OF OFFICE AND I'M GOING TO GET AS MANY THINKING FOLK AS I CAN TO DO THE SAME.

For you gullable living room generals, that is not being a liberal. Just sick of being ripped off by outa control corporate greed.

Oh, yes, the same ones fixing to take your ham bands away from you, do you care?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I do.

It's probably better for you hook, line and sinker, beer drinking NASCAR Red White and Blue living room Generals to operate here than pollute the hams bands anyway. I bet you got one of those cutsie American flags all waving so proud as you race around in your gas guzzzling oversized SUV, huh? So wave that flag from your SUV as if it means something and hey, go meet your dead kids at the airport, Bushisimo, sure aint up to that. His style is bring em in the night, with the lights off (Gotta save on the lectric bill, don't ya know) Don't ya just love that Alfred E. Bush dude? Man he's our, well, Generalisimo Bushisimo, aint he, huh?

Have at it boys, The truth hurts.

Hutch

[W3MIV]

Hutch, Hutch, Hutch, ol' &quot;chum:&quot;

Dispense with the vitriol and return to school. With a lot of remedial courses, I am sure you can bring your posts up to an almost readable state.

As to your political philosophies, when one steps outside of warm, fuzzy womb of secure employment and strikes out on one's own, economics becomes something with a more emphatic presence in one's life. Try it.

Go out and try your wings in the world, Icarus, before you offer me your half-repetitions of the poison and idiocy you have been fed over NPR, PBS or any of the other government dependencies filling impressionable heads like yours with, shall we say, smoke.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ya know, even with 10,000 more posts on this subject, seriously doubt if it changes ONE vote form one candidate to the other...so go on, state what ever facts SUIT your candidate and makes the other look bad http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ---ai4ep--- (( praise god the almighty father )) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[n3ijw]

Better to bicker about it here than on the air #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W3MIV]

Ah, remember the Bickersons. Funny at first, but like a lot of posts, tiresome after a while.

I never bicker. When possible, I dictate. Alas, I have yet to perfect the deployment system.

[w5klb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,04:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 15 2004,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#Yes, the spending needs to be quelled. #But does that mean tax us like Kerry wants to do? #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Who is &quot;US&quot;? ....Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there? Think before you say US! #Kerry, like most Democrats, is for MORE tax breaks for those who need them, and LESS for those who DON'T! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Corporate theives?!?!?

What about J(ane) #F(onda) Kerry?

If he's elected he promises to raise our (that means ALL of us) taxes by $900 billion (that's $900,000,000,000 )dollars in the FIRST ONE HUNDRED DAYS OF OFFICE!!!

You had better start watching your pocket book if John F(lipflop) Kerry gets elected. He's gonna rob ALL of us blind.

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ April 16 2004,08:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK! #You have just included EVERY media personality (Rather, Brokaw, Jennings, Chung, Couric, et al) AS WELL as those 'OVER $300K' publicly avowed Hollywood liberals (Alec Baldwin, Barbra Striesand, Ted Turner (OH! He's a 'over $300K corporate cheat!'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and the rest of them) #in the SAME camp as 'right wing corporate thieves!&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If they make that much LET 'EM ALL pay more taxes! No matter WHICH party they vote for! They CAN afford it, can't they? Or should this out of control deficit be allowed to continue, unchecked, until ALL the money goes to Iraq? ...Oh wait, there IS no more money! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 16 2004,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Interesting...

TERESA FIGHTS TO KEEP HER TAX RETURNS PRIVATE (http://drudgereport.com/rc8r.htm)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So...? SHE'S not running for president, HE is! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[w5klb]

Just one other thing...

The worst President we ever had, IMHO, was Andrew Jackson. The man forced marched, from their rightful ancestrial home in Georgia, in the middle of winter, The Cherokees on the Trail of Tears to present day Oklahoma. The 1/4 of their population had died from exposure from the cold winter, or of Small Pox. And yet the man still &quot;graces&quot; our twenty dollar bill. Why? I haven't got a clue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3ijw @ April 16 2004,07:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those over $300,000 a year right-wing corporate thieves who lie and cheat to get there?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes BGO, everyone who makes more than $X per year is a lying, cheating right-winger, because its not possible for people to become successful otherwise.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hey, they could be LEFT wingers too, I guess! If they make more they can pay more! Strike a NERVE did I? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[N0PU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 16 2004,07:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not so sure it would be a wise thing (any political party would have to agree) to attack Saudi Arabia. Although I think it might be warranted. However, we would ignite the wrath of every Muslim from here to Jakarta and back for invading their holy land and its shrines.

Whether or not Bush Sr and Jr got together and had Jr to drum up a plan go after Iraq is nothing more than speculation without corroborated facts. Which is the liberals defense to our argument and point on WMD's still being somewhere in the region of/or in Iraq.

I'm not going to argue with you per se' on your support for us and again I thank you. However, I would think 5 - 10 years from now there will be more to the story and some surprises and I told you so's for both sides.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As far as Saudi is concerned, I know it isn't wise, that is why we didn't do it... I believe the thinking was that Iraq was a lessor target that could be taken down more easily and hopefully put a feather in Jr's cap...

I am well aware that anything I say about this whole subject is speculation... and I agree that we won't know the truth for at least 5 or 10 years after it is all over...

But I would like to remind you that I realize you folks in the military are being fed the 'party line' fairly consistantly and that just because they say it is so, doesn't make it so... I know... we got fed the 'party line' in Vietnam and we now know it just wasn't so... again this is what makes me so suspicious... too many things when put together just don't seem to add up...

No one on this forum can speak with authority... No one on this forum has access to the documents and information necessary to speak authoritatively... and even if they did have access they couldn't talk about it anyway... and even if they did talk about it, no one would believe them because of the past history of this administration....

So we all continue to speculate, hoping to find some small amount of truth that we can hang our hats on... some small hope that when this administration is ousted, the next one will be honest and straight forward and help us to believe in the leadership of our great nation...

[W3MIV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5wpw @ April 16 2004,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just one other thing...

The worst President we ever had, IMHO, was Andrew Jackson. The man forced marched, from their rightful ancestrial home in Georgia, in the middle of winter, The Cherokees on the Trail of Tears to present day Oklahoma. The 1/4 of their population had died from exposure from the cold winter, or of Small Pox. And yet the man still &quot;graces&quot; our twenty dollar bill. Why? I haven't got a clue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And he, not Jefferson, was the real founder of the Democrite party.

[KG4WRA]

I have only one thing to say on this topic... I don't care if you like the current president or not, but respect him, as he is the leader of this nation. I don't like John Kerry, infact, I don't even respect him... but if he becomes our next president, I will respect him for that, as he is the leader and is my authority.

[n3ijw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey, they could be LEFT wingers too, I guess! If they make more they can pay more! Strike a NERVE did I? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Er, no, not really. [insert rolleyes emoticon]

Especially considering that the top 5% of wage earners (who earn 32% of the income) pay over 53% of the taxes. Please spare me the poor overtaxed lefty bit.

Help! I'm being oppressed by wealthy people! Come see the inequality inherent in the system! Inequality inherent in the system!!!

Welcome to a free capitalist republic.

[W3MIV]

There is a difference between respect for an office and respect for an office holder. Respect is something that a man or woman must earn.
Kerry has earned my respect for his service in time of war, regardless of what anyone may think about that contest. In that regard, he outranks Clinton in my estimation by a magnitude or more.
But to castigate a sitting president over jobs and off-shore production when your own wife's money is derived from operations that are now more off-shore than on- indicates clearly that he is a liar (Hutch, please note spelling) and only too willing to throw any brick he can find in his gutter.
The political stunt with the medals was unforgivable.
He voted for the action in Iraq, now insists he was somehow duped or misled. Look at his actual voting record in the Senate and you will find a man more devoted to limousine liberalism than even the senior senator from Taxachusetts—Edward Kennedy (D. Chappaquiddic).
Trash. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[K6UEY]

Has anyone given any thought as to why Iraq was chosen? There needs to be Stability introduced into the Middle Eastern World, for the sake of all the rest of the world.The plan to do that is a BOLD one at the very least,consider the choices,Syria, Kuwait,Qatar,The Emerates,Oman,Bahrain,however none have the brutal dictator as Sadamn Hussein. Of course Iran would also be on the list,and it would be payback time,but being run by the Moslem Clerics it would be considered an attack on religion by the far left. The logical choice then would be Iraq, where the most good could be accomplished to benefit the total world. The establishment of a democratic style goverment in the middle East would be the first stepping stone to stability to that area,and GOD only knows they and the world needs it.
In my opinion President G.W. Bush has taken a very bold step to accomplish some thing all other leaders have tried and failed at,Peace in the Middle East.
Had previous administrations been doing the job they were elected to do the country would not have been in such bad shape,launching such a bold plan, then having the 911 incident happen,GW has shown what a good leader he can be,multiple tasking can always be a challenge,even for Microsoft.
Some say what do we care about the middle East let them fight it out amongst themselves, but these same people enjoy their Energy Consumption, and have no intention of reducing their lifestyle voluntarily. What goes around ,comes around. The organized labor movement has run the price of labor up to the point that manufacturers can no longer afford to compete by using local labor and are forced to go overseas. China has taken on large portions of that business as has India into the service sector. This raising of the lifestyle and providing employment overseas,has an underlying cost some do not consider. The energy consumption ( OIL ) of these countries has esculated. The US has to now compete for the import of oil and the price will elevate due to supply and demand. Consider what this will do to your lifestyle?? With the state of communications today the world has been reduced in size. International trade is now a necessary thing for a country to survive.No one country has the required resources to sustain a long period of time with out International trade,thats why Peace in the Middle East is so important for the world as a whole.

[W3MIV]

Here's tonight's homework assignment for all of you Democrites in the huddled masses:

Take a close look at your Congress, that is, both the House of Representatives and the Senate, and come back to class tomorrow and tell ol' Doc Alb which party has more millionaires—the Democrites or the Republicrats.

Class dismissed.

Simple question. How many of us are employed by a poor person? Lets have our &quot;rich&quot; employer send our paychecks to the government as taxes and fire us all, right now. Show of hands, any takers? Everybody for more taxes, get in line, here's your pink slip. It's that simple.
N7SYY

[kc0ebm]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7SYY @ April 16 2004,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Simple question. How many of us are employed by a poor person? Lets have our &quot;rich&quot; employer send our paychecks to the government as taxes and fire us all, right now. Show of hands, any takers? Everybody for more taxes, get in line, here's your pink slip. It's that simple.
N7SYY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
N7SYY,

As Bill O'Reilly would say....That was PITHY!

You get the all time record for PITH.

I wish I was so PITHY. More people would read my stuff!

You are the KING OF PITH.

All hail the king of PITH.

In other words, I couldn't have said it better myself ole bean http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

EBM

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9LQI @ April 16 2004,10:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For the benefit of the likes of KD4LEI and W3MIV in particular, I will side with K3FT, who shows some intelligence.

LEI and MIV need to clean their deaf ears out with a sharp stick so they can allow the voice of reason to penetrade their BS laiden brains, to receive therapy, so to speak. As an RX I thinjk you need to spend more time listening to Mr Kerry, who sepaks good French (as opposed to Alfred E. Bush, who cops a litlle espanol. Comprende? Uppp aint that the same dude allowing uncontrolled cha chas over the border? huh? As a second therapy, try listening to what the President of Islam said, starts with large corporations waging war, like Hall........n, huh?

Might try listening to NPR, Front line, and a few of the few objective cvommentaries left on the air regarding the Corporate style prosturing of the present Bushiak administration. Bushisismo does like the put downs but is so short on substance, huh? &quot;You didn't give me that question before hand in writing so my handlers sez I shouldn't answer that question&quot;, huh? (Two nights ago on television).

We do have a first amendemnt right to state our opinions and the truth, in spite of the fact that you have trouble handling it.

For you Bushimismos (military arm chair generals), we did start the war in Iraq using lies and misinformation. Now they got their Big Corporate buddies running a Corporate army charging the tax payer big $$$$$$$ for their bungling. As a tax payer, I'm not interested in that form of Corporate entitlement.

So I'm going to vote the BUM AND HIS CARPET BAGGER LYING BUNCH OF VIPERS OUT OF OFFICE AND I'M GOING TO GET AS MANY THINKING FOLK AS I CAN TO DO THE SAME.

For you gullable living room generals, that is not being a liberal. Just sick of being ripped off by outa control corporate greed.

Oh, yes, the same ones fixing to take your ham bands away from you, do you care?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I do.

It's probably better for you hook, line and sinker, beer drinking NASCAR Red White and Blue living room Generals to operate here than pollute the hams bands anyway. I bet you got one of those cutsie American flags all waving so proud as you race around in your gas guzzzling oversized SUV, huh? So wave that flag from your SUV as if it means something and hey, go meet your dead kids at the airport, Bushisimo, sure aint up to that. His style is bring em in the night, with the lights off (Gotta save on the lectric bill, don't ya know) Don't ya just love that Alfred E. Bush dude? Man he's our, well, Generalisimo Bushisimo, aint he, huh?

Have at it boys, The truth hurts.

Hutch[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh wait is Hutch trying to say something?
....
......
........
..........
............
..............

Nope... More frivilous ranting and baseless chatter. As a matter of fact I am beginning to wonder if you state this garbage, just to get attention or use it more as satire.

Hutch your post alone proves your elistist viewpoint. I should listen to Kerry more? The same John Kerry who voted against the tools the US military needs to operate nowadays to be far superior at swiftly defeating an enemy? Listen to NPR, Frontline and more liberal chatter?

I get enough of that from watching NBC, ABC, &amp; CBS...

If you had read when I stated that you are entitled to an opinion then you would have known. Me having trouble handling your comments? Rrrrright.... The fact you went off on a tangent of whatever that was lastnight then it sounds like to me your running out of options to argue about and losing in this debate..

W9LQI wrote:
&quot;It's probably better for you hook, line and sinker, beer drinking NASCAR Red White and Blue living room Generals to operate here than pollute the hams bands anyway. I bet you got one of those cutsie American flags all waving so proud as you race around in your gas guzzzling oversized SUV, huh? So wave that flag from your SUV as if it means something and hey, go meet your dead kids at the airport, Bushisimo, sure aint up to that. His style is bring em in the night, with the lights off (Gotta save on the lectric bill, don't ya know) Don't ya just love that Alfred E. Bush dude? Man he's our, well, Generalisimo Bushisimo, aint he, huh?&quot;

Liberal Socialist....

Say it with me guys...

L-i-b-e-r-a-l S-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t...

Your last paragraph of quotes alone spews hatred for your own country Hutch. Why I do seem to have a feeling Hutch's true colors show full well what he stands for. Did A.N.S.W.E.R. and &quot;Not in Our Name&quot; have you believing in their socialist cause?

Seems like it to me...

[KD4LEI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ April 16 2004,12:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ April 16 2004,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Interesting...

TERESA FIGHTS TO KEEP HER TAX RETURNS PRIVATE (http://drudgereport.com/rc8r.htm)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So...? SHE'S not running for president, HE is! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You're ducking the point to that article BGO.

Roll back the tax cuts on the weathy, but purposefully ignore the fact both he and his wife have some cash well above 300k. Why is it (other than privacy issues) that she is nervous about making their 1040's and 1040A's from past filing years known? If you have nothing to hide then why all the secrecy?

You think he will truly abide by the law himself if elected? His credibility is shoddy as it is with flip-flop for a vote opinions.