View Full Version : The Word is Out!
kc0ebm
03-04-2004, 07:08 AM
Take a good listen around the band! #
The first salvo has been launched. #
Riley ain't playin'. #
A popular LID frequency is now open for new squatters. #
There will be more. #
For many, its now too late to reform.
You've been HAD!
This is HAM radio.....NOT CB WITH A TWIST!!!
Ham radio only belongs to those who abide by its rules.
Those who have scoffed are now on "short time"!
And its coming none too soon!
Now, where did I put that Cohiba? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
EBM
kk7jk
03-04-2004, 07:34 AM
Something is missing, when, what and where?
Explain, please......
kc0ebm
03-04-2004, 07:57 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kk7jk @ Mar. 04 2004,00:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Something is missing, when, what and where?
Explain, please......[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry buddy!
I don't intend to push Glen any farther than I already have. #I am not allowed to go into names, call signs, frequencies......just too specific and causes too much trouble for Fred and his crew. #
Suffice it to say, that the band is abuzz. #I can't be more specific until it is officially published and becomes part of the public domain. #
As of now, its only unsubstatiated rumor until it becomes official.
Just keep listening.
EBM
KD4LEI
03-04-2004, 09:29 AM
I wonder if it's from... Could it be...? Pressure (on folks in Riley's department) from the head of the FCC to get things cleaned up?
I would guess the lids can thank Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake for their troubles if what you say is true.
If so... It's about time.
KA7RRA
03-04-2004, 09:43 AM
KC0EMB
You shoul have kept you mouth shut and not have said anything or post any thing you may have tiped them off
loose lips sink big ships
Dave
KD4LEI
03-04-2004, 10:16 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA7RRA @ Mar. 04 2004,02:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0EMB
You shoul have kept you mouth shut and not have said anything or post any thing #you may have tiped them off
loose lips sink big ships
Dave[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I concur with Dave on this EMB. However, Dave there are some brave souls out there who will think they won't get caught and still do it. Either way IF true, it's long overdue.
kc0ebm
03-04-2004, 10:36 AM
Fellas,
I've kept shut about this. I didn't say a word until it was talked about openly on the band. As far as warning others and foiling further FCC Enforcement actions, don't you think that the word and the warnings will travel faster by word of mouth on the air than any discussion here?
The LIDS on 75 have been thoroughly warned repeatedly while data was being collected. There is no excuse! And from this greatful amateur, there is no remorse either.
I won't go into any detail about what has happened. You will hear lots of rumors. Take them with a grain of salt until official word from the FCC becomes public.
Just enjoy the rumor mill for awhile and be patient.
Isn't this exciting http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
EBM
************YAWN*******************
ummmmm,,,,, Heard it all before too many times........
ad4mg
03-04-2004, 12:45 PM
I can see the headlines now ... Mr. H selects more "soft" targets for enforcement action (publicity) ... enforcement efforts continue to discount the more difficult issues (too many $'s required) like the pirates on 10 & 12 meters ... the unlicensed missionaries on 20 meters ... the illegal phone patches on 30 meters ... oh well, at least its SOMETHING.
I suppose that's better than nothing.
73,
Luke
ai4ep
03-05-2004, 07:50 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif sooo( let me see if I read the top post correctly )...that the FCC is starting to enforce the existing laws & regulations ( which is ok ), ... and .. that all of the stations who are breaking the rules should " take heed and cease transmitting illegal transmissions " ( not sure of that part ), ..or... the FCC is gonna git ya !! Well, I suppose at least a half dozen folks are ROLLING IN THE FLOOR laughing, that another half dozen are so scared they left and arent reading this part, that another half dozen say " It dont matter to me, I am a legal operator " and 7 more say " well, they wont catch me, I am too smart for the FCC " { that does equal 25, dont it ? }. Should the FCC give prior notice of what frequencies they will be listening to, about six weeks in advance, along with the TIME of the listening ( in gmt, so we all wont be around at the wrong time ), and so on and so on ( blah blah,blah ). All they have to do is simply listen for a good hour or so ( or even less time ) at their leisure, and go from there. It dont take no rocket scientist with a million dollar direction finding apparatus to hear what is going on...but...if you dont like what you hear, turn the vfo, or turn the rig OFF and do something more constructive ( like upgrading, or IF you are an EXTRA class operator, you might try ELMERING those who are not as wise as you ( might actually make a new friend or two )....any how, have fun with yer radioos, and remember to http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif once in a while, it will make everyone who see the http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif wonder what you are/have been up to !! ---kd4amg---
KM5FL
03-06-2004, 01:00 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ebm @ Mar. 03 2004,01:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kk7jk @ Mar. 04 2004,00:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Something is missing, when, what and where?
Explain, please......[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry buddy!
I don't intend to push Glen any farther than I already have. #I am not allowed to go into names, call signs, frequencies......just too specific and causes too much trouble for Fred and his crew. #
Suffice it to say, that the band is abuzz. #I can't be more specific until it is officially published and becomes part of the public domain. #
As of now, its only unsubstatiated rumor until it becomes official.
Just keep listening.
EBM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Since Glen's rules apply to everone equally, I won't call any names either...
But it looks like somebody escaped from their cage again...
I get so tired of hearing .....
Oh nevermind.. I'll just place this thread with the others on my "list"....
KM5FL
kc0ebm
03-06-2004, 05:41 AM
Oh well.....Ya win some.....you lose some http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
THE FCC IS A REGULATORY AGENCY NOT A ENORCMENT AGENCY.THE ONLY TEETH IT HAS THE 500 DOLLAR A DAY FINE AND THE POWER TO PULL THEIR LICENCES WHAT EVER THEY ARE FOR YOU COULD LOOSE YOU COMMERCIAL TICKET FOR SCREWING UP ON
HAM BANDS.
WA6FFV
K9STH
03-06-2004, 03:52 PM
FFV:
For many years the FCC could levy a maximum of $10,000 a day per radio fine for illegal operation. I believe that this amount has increased in the last few years.
I do know of certain situations where the FCC has levied $10,000 per radio per day including a town in Texas who was operating the entire public safety department on an unlicensed frequency. Also, there have been some cities, like Philadelphia, who decided to use amateur radio equipment on their commercial frequencies to "save" a little money. They have gotten some very large fines.
Glen, K9STH
As I said on another chain, the ham in question called the FCC because of things said on the air. The FCC investigated as we heard here. The argument continued and the ham who filed the complaint took matters further. And the debate continued for another night.
And as I said, follow Tom's advise. If you report, let the FCC do their job. Don't confront. The ham in question was one of my newer friends and I really don't envy them this situation.
Kind of reminds me of a chatroom on AOL. The Trolls babble, the flamers scream and shout and the "straights" whine about "why doesn't AOL terminate these idiots".
And, the beat goes on. Sadly, Amateur radio has not been immune to the general decline in morals and self restraint we have seen in society in general.
Would you like to know what some of the more "Militant" CB radio people (that many of you sneer at) do in a situation like this? It's called a grappling hook (or whatever happens to be suited to the task), attached to a pickup bumper, late at night. Take my word for it, most dont put up a new one. And, if they do, a good ass whipping seems to convince them. But then, these are just urban legends, right...?
kc0ebm
03-09-2004, 12:37 AM
K8GHB
NOBODY, including the author of this thread (ME) advocates ANY such thing as you propose!!!
Resorting to illegal and violent solutions IS NO SOLUTION!!!
The ONLY legitimate amateur enforcement activity is, Monitoring, Recording, and Filing evidence of violations with the FCC!
NEVER reveal your enforcement activities to ANYONE!!!
NEVER confront a violator, either on the air, or in person!!
Always protect yourself, your family, and your property from disgruntled violators by maintaining your ANONYMITY.
Get involved in Grass Roots Rules Enforcement!!!
But DO IT RIGHT!!!
KCØEBM
KC0EBM:
# I wasn't proposing that anyone do anything, and your reaction is predictable (see my comments in the thread about 75 meters). Nor do I expect anyone to do such things, or, say they should. My post was just a general comment with another point of view, designed to make you THINK...As is the one I refer to above in another thread here.
# But then, these things DO happen. It stands to reason that, if our great protector cant (or, wont) protect us like they promised (and that we pay them DEARLY to do), then we just have to take our own tender watassies in hand and have the guts to take care of ourselves, doesn't it? That IS what made this country great in the first place. It's called self reliance. We, as proud citizens of this country shouldn't want or need the Government to be our nanny, now should we? I, for one, am not a child. There is a school of thought that says that sometimes, after all else fails, one has to do what one has to do.
# You know what the trouble with many of you is? You cant think outside the box that you have erected around yourselves and your lives. (Now, you watch what a storm of unthinking "how DARE you" posts that one comment brings. It's predictable and inevitable, because you're so brainwashed you dont even realize it) Wives, Mortgages, car payments, social group stratification...The american dream that you find yourself allways working to pay for, while kissing employer (and social group) butt, and making compromises unless you're one of the few lucky ones with money. I see so many of you here,and on the air, that are so worried about the FCC rules that it's allmost paranoid. Yet, you know that, in all likelihood, the only time you'll hear from the FCC, ever, is if someone turns you in or complains. And even then, it will only be a warning letter. And anyone who turns you in will do it most likely because they have a grudge against you...And you think they will spend much time saving you from the Trolls on HF?
For that matter, Listen to how KC0EBM referrs to it: "Violators" and "Enforcement activities"...Like we are cops and it's a valliant struggle, but we will snitch you out to our Government and let them punish you if we dont like your behavior. You VILL obey!
When, in reality, if you would think and stop feeding the animals, you wouldn't NEED to worry about exposing yourself to "Disgruntled Violators". Do you think, maybe they're disgruntled because you snitched them out to the Government? Wouldn't YOU be disgruntled if someone snitched YOU out? The Government and "Enforcement" is not allways the answer to a problem.
# This is the predictable result of being a high paid Corporate, or Government worker, shaped by a suburban (GOVERNMENT RUN) screwel system and then a University (Most likely Government run, again), learning to think within the box, because that's the ONLY way you can get your diploma and degree and "get ahead", with a lifetime of proud service, aquired baggage and reputation to protect. And you certainly wouldn't do something as crass as pulling down some poor trolls antenna, or administering a well deserved ass whipping! Hell, that might draw the cops and ruin your reputation...Imagine...You, a criminal! You sneer at such scum, dont you? You are not the type that would do anything illegal to begin with.
# And anyway, in the real world where many live, and life is a struggle, if people know you will bust their chops if they mess with you, they find other, weaker prey... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
kc0ebm
03-09-2004, 02:38 AM
GHB
Trust me buddy. I'm NOT taking this fight sitting down!
But I won't destroy my efforts by resorting to illegal behavior.
Oh YES....I fully intend to "bust them in the chops", but when I do...they won't know what, or WHO hit 'em!
And I'm not alone! And neither am I in the minority as the LIDS have convinced themselves.
The steam is building and the Grass Roots Rules Enforcement Train is boarding passengers and will soon leave the station.
ALL ABOARD! Next stop....LIDVILLE!!!
EBM
EBM:
And this train is going to do what? Warning letters? Fines? Lidville? I admit that's a cute (if somewhat dated and old) name that I assume is meant to mean that these "Violators" are stupid, just as it used to decades ago? If they are so stupid, how is it they managed to put a potent station on the air?
The trouble with it is, these people are not stupid. As a matter of fact, if you sat down on the Train on the way to your destination and thought clearly about it, you would come to the startling conclusion that they pretty well have you pegged and cater their behavior specificly towards you and your attitude/personality, as shown by the apparent fact of how well they manage to annoy and anger you.
As long as you approach this type of thing as a "Enforcement" activity, you will continue to have such problems, because it is this attitude as a amateur that these people aim at. If you dont mind my saying so, they think you are a unthinking, middle class stuffed shirt. Any bets they are right?
You know...My son was going to school without his school supplies, day after day, even though it was against the rules and, day after day the school, in their unthinking rigidity, treated it as a "discipline" problem and sent him into a so called "Punishment" room where he sat, all day, and did his school work.
Now, mind you, he was NEVER a behavior problem and his work, every day, was excellent. Yet they STILL insisted on treating it as a discipline problem. Why? BECAUSE HE WASNT FOLLOWING THEIR RULES and they didn't care WHY. All they cared about was that their rules were obeyed.
It turned out that he was doing it deliberately, knowing he would be put in a separate room, because he was having a bully problem, which only got straightened out when I got involved. Quite frankly, I found his counselor to be a total idiot.
The point here, is you (and others) are acting the same way. You are determined to enforce your wishes on these people, because they aren't following your rules (and so, thay are "lids") and the only way you can do so is by the Government. Every problem has cause and effect, as well as a solution.
The cause, for these people is your attitude, the effect is that they jam channels, etc. The solution is not to use the Government to enforce your attitude. The solution is to CHANGE your attitude and stop feeding the problem. Not everyone thinks like you do, or, has the same opinion as you do. If you stop feeding the animals, they will go away and find other prey...
It's a proven concept. Use his own psychology against him: They dont like being ignored. They WANT ATTENTION. If a jammer comes on and you can talk over him, do so and, most of all, IGNORE him. If you cant get over him, just stop talking for a while and if he babbles on JUST IGNORE HIM NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS. And dont let him get the impression he ran you off the channel by prattling on with callsigns, etc.
Simply stop talking. Sooner or later, usually sooner, in a couple of minutes, he will go somewhere else. If he gets the same treatment all the time, he will eventually disappear and new ones wont last long. You ENCOURAGE the problem by talking to them no matter what you say to them.
Government "Enforcement" is not the answer to every problem. Usually, involviong the Government pisses people off, with good reason
XV2PS
03-09-2004, 04:43 AM
I was just wondering (of course, I am not in the US...),
How much all this public (= not anonymous) "crusade" about enforcement coming from "a couple" (because "public" does not seems to be the case for more than one "or two hams") does not actually emulate/stimulate some hams to make more mess on the bands, and preferably anonymousely now, which they were not doing earlier.
Again, I do not know what happens there, but "suddenly", it seems that lids are more and more given importance while it is always advised to ignore them.
Why not simply cutting them off in silence? Clean and precise, no post surgery bleeding,....
GHB, OM-
If you keep posting here I just might start reading this site more often. You have a damn good outlook on life.
73, Joe
Do not forget to write your anti-BPL letters,
encourage new amateur radio participation and generally be nice
to one another. That is all.
I just hope the ACLU doesn't get involved.
I mean, like, after all do not Lids have a first ammendment right to express their Lidom?
How are we to know if any infraction is not an intentional expression of Lidness?
Lids have rights too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
KG4CGC
05-26-2004, 05:17 AM
You must be talking about dirt.
Remember folks the FCC can pull any licence they issue for screwing up on the ham bands.A ham licence is a privledge not a right so says various courts throught the land.[CODE]
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ebm @ Mar. 04 2004,00:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Take a good listen around the band! #
The first salvo has been launched. #
Riley ain't playin'. #
A popular LID frequency is now open for new squatters. #
There will be more. #
For many, its now too late to reform.
You've been HAD!
This is HAM radio.....NOT CB WITH A TWIST!!!
Ham radio only belongs to those who abide by its rules.
Those who have scoffed are now on "short time"!
And its coming none too soon!
Now, where did I put that Cohiba? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
EBM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You ought to get a composer. It would make a catchy tune...LMAO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (XV2PS @ Mar. 08 2004,21:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was just wondering (of course, I am not in the US...),
How much all this public (= not anonymous) "crusade" about enforcement coming from "a couple" (because "public" does not seems to be the case for more than one "or two hams") does not actually emulate/stimulate some hams to make more mess on the bands, and preferably anonymousely now, which they were not doing earlier.
Again, I do not know what happens there, but "suddenly", it seems that lids are more and more given importance while it is always advised to ignore them.
Why not simply cutting them off in silence? Clean and precise, no post surgery bleeding,....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It's because a certain group has taken it upon themselves to become the Radio Gestapo here. They dont care about solutions like you propose (which is the way to go). These miscreants have DARED to key up on amateur frequencies and thumb their noses at THE RULES and, therefore, as VIOLATORS, must be dealt with in the harshest manner possible (in this case, by snitching them out to the Government, since individual amateurs in this country have no enforcement powers).
You see, it doesn't matter that, in large part, such problems as posed by the "Lids" are, in many cases a response to the general arrogance displayed by the righteous among us. You know, it's funny. with all the disparaging comments I hear about the CB scum (who deal with this same kind of thing every day by IGNORING THE OFFENDER WHO THEN GOES AWAY), This situation with HF "Violators' and "lids" is exactly the same, except that amateur radio is a licensed service, so they can bitch to the FCC and demand "enforcement", instead of handling it in the correct, "self policing" way that CBers do it. I guess the CB "scum" isn't so dumb after all.
Hope this serves to enlighten you a bit.
KD7QYU
05-29-2004, 05:50 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ebm @ Mar. 04 2004,00http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Take a good listen around the band! #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Around which band?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? There are a few of them you know.
kd7qyu http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ai4ep
05-30-2004, 02:15 AM
...faster horses...younger women... older whiskey...more money http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
---ai4ep---
( now just where is my MEDICINE ?? )
KA3RFE
05-30-2004, 03:03 AM
Didn't Riley state somewhere that enforcement actions are DOWN, not up?? He either said it at Dayton or there was an article on the ARRL web site about it. I hardly think a decrease in the number of cases handled as a "crackdown."
73, Pete KA3RFE
KC9ECI
05-31-2004, 03:00 PM
From http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/04/0521/
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
==>AMATEUR ENFORCEMENT CASES DECLINING
The number of Amateur Radio enforcement cases has continued to drop since a five-year peak of 350 in 2001. FCC Special Counsel for Enforcement Riley Hollingsworth told the Dayton Hamvention 2004 FCC Forum May 15 that 240 ham radio enforcement cases crossed his desk last year. As his tenure in amateur enforcement enters its sixth year, he's estimating only 175 cases in 2004.
"Two years ago at Dayton, I said that I hoped the day would come soon when enforcement would not be an issue in the Amateur Service," Hollingsworth said. While he doesn't believe amateur enforcement is in "maintenance mode" yet, it's well on its way, he said. But he urged his audience not to become complacent just because there's active FCC Amateur Service enforcement. Although the percentage of "hard-core" cases is very small and rapidly declining, the remaining cases include "some real nasty ones," he said.
Hollingsworth said his main worry remains inappropriate or illegal on-the-air behavior and the sometimes-negative image it can present to decision makers at a time of broadband over power line (BPL) and other threats to amateur spectrum. He proposed that amateurs concentrate on
improving how they conduct themselves on the air while letting him deal with the remaining bad apples that require his attention.
"No enforcement program in the world can save certain people from themselves or from being an embarrassment to the entire service," he said--reiterating a refrain that's now almost become his mantra. "If anything is the downfall of Amateur Radio, it will probably be the microphone. You have to focus on your image--what you sound like--all the
time."
Hollingsworth also told the forum he's convinced that further Amateur Service restructuring is a necessity. He also suggested that amateurs be less concerned about any perceived "dumbing down" of the licensing requirements, because ham radio will continue to thrive in any event.
"It's not really what you do to get into Amateur Radio that counts. It's what you do once you get on the air," he said.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ka8jhm
05-31-2004, 03:07 PM
GHB;
Reading your answers regarding the illegal use of the ten meter band, I get the idea you could care less about protecting our frequencies.
In one of your posts, you claim there is no problem on then meters, and to this I say hooey.
Either you never use ten meters, your receive is no good on that band, your cave has no antenna, or you just don't care, take your pick.
I have travelled around your area on many occassions and there is no doubt about the existence of truckers using ten meters, all up and down I-75, US23, and US 127, in fact while in Frankenmuth I heard a CB net on 28.315AM mode. No infractions?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Also, the idea to just wait and they'll go away does not work, in fact the problem as exists today is a direct result of the immediate in-action from the FCC when this mess first started, the longer it was allowed to continue, the harder it is to stop.
In trying to protect our frequencies, I resent being called gestapo, and cry baby for turning in or filing complaints with the FCC, and above all I don't care to share the bands with the unlicensed people who just try to take over, and yes, I'm making reference to the CB crowd, and truckers in general.
Bob TBTM http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif