View Full Version : Class Warfare
Lots of class warfare going on out there.
From the sounds of some of the posts, I sometimes get the impression some amateurs our there seem they are better or superior just because they are General, Extra, or passed 20 CW exams.
I'm one of the newer amateurs -- received by ticket in 2001 and am working to learn the info I need to pass the extra exam. I want to upgrade to extra, not for the status -- just simply to operate in areas of the spectrum I can't do alone at this point. (Shorter call sign would be cool too.)
Seems this type of prejudice doesn't align well with what the Amateur Radio Service is all about. Isn't there better things we could be doing -- like making some contacts, or helping others to make contacts more effectively?
It's funny you mention that. I too notice it but from the other side, the name calling, bashing, and finger pointing at the higher class licensees for no reason.
Although true, there should be better things to do, it certainly doesn't appear that way some times.
In my opinion Amateur Radio had its best run from 1951 to 1968.
This was a time when all amateurs with a renewable license conveying HF privileges had all the HF privileges.
I don't remember much class warfare from 1962 when I started as an SWL listening to the AMers (the most used mode at that time) on 75 and 40 meters. Oh there wers some older Class A ops who harbored a grudge about the others getting "their exclusive phone spectrum" but there were no artificial boundries where crossing magic frequency without the proper class of license meant that you had broken a law.
Generals, Extras and the then orphaned Class A hams got along pretty well together both on the air and at the club level. The ARRL, in it's publication "50 years of ARRL", noted that this time period had been the most productive in the history of ham radio up to that point.
The trouble started when a large number of hams got tossed of frequencies one day that they had been using yesterday. This started the warfare in earnest and what we see today is directly tied to what happened then. It was stepped up a notch when the no code Technician license became a reality. and again when the code speed was dropped to 5wpm for General and Extra. Now we have subclasses of waring factions.
Fortunately, at least on HF, you do not hear a lot of the negative chatter that is posted in these forums.
73
George
K3UD
Don't judge the hobby by a few bad eggs on both sides. There are "low class" licensees in all license classes.
Alot of folks are just mad on both sides. I know a guy who ended up arrested over a fight he had because someone called him a jack-ass. I reminded him that he was indeed a jack-ass and he knew it, so why was he upset? He said that he knew he was, but he just got tired of being called one.
KA4DPO
01-29-2004, 10:41 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0LNU @ Jan. 29 2004,14:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Seems this type of prejudice doesn't align well with what the Amateur Radio Service is all about.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree, there are some real LIDs out there. There are also a lot of good guys too. When I was a novice there was an older guy in the local area who always bad mouthed us to his ol buddies on the air. Even though we were relegated to CW below the sacred part of the band he couldn't stand the thought that UGH, novices existed.
One day a friend and I saw his house. What a dump!! Even as kids we knew why he had to run someone else down on the air. He was less than special in the real world. I've seen that scenario repeated over the years and when some guy talks big, it's usually a front for someone who's a weak unit.
WB2WIK
01-29-2004, 10:47 PM
Not only don't you hear much of this on HF, you really don't hear much of it on the air, anywhere.
The "warring factions," as they are, all seem to be on the internet where one doesn't even need a license to participate, so I don't know what everyone's arguing about.
K6UEY
01-29-2004, 10:49 PM
Do I detect a little bit of Equality for the classes here, and maybe a hint of reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator and you achieve Equality for the masses. I believe there was a social philosophy based on this principle, which didn't seem to work out when it was put in practice, although there are still a few die hards who will try their best to have it implemented.
Although there are some four letters words that are not considered politically correct in modern day, individual incentive is a product of reward to those who are willing to "WORK" or "EARN" that reward or privilege and along with the benefits of their labor should come recognition for having achieved some thing others may be too "LAZY" to grasp. Pride of accomplishment is not an attempt at vanity but instead a positive factor in building one's self esteem. It is not a crime to have a good feeling about one's self when achieving a revealed goal successfully.The effort expended in climbing to the pinnacle of one's proclaimed goal should be celebrated and stand as a beacon for others to follow and not be viewed in disdain.
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
N7CPC
01-29-2004, 11:31 PM
I'm not mad about the plan for the Advanced Class ticket. Just a little put off that the idea wasn't furthered when all the public hubbub was happening pryor the last round of changes.
Lots of things have changed over the years. Each and everyone of them have been met with fervent responces on both sides of the coin.
However, the more I think about it, the more bizzar I thing it will feel to be "given" something as aposed to the other way arround.
When all is said and done, refarming for the current General ticket, in one form or another, had to happen. If for no other reason than fairness, given the sheer size of the step in spectrum between General and Extra. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Well said ORV, whether "politically correct" or not... We as Americans need to get out of this "politically correct" syndrome... It's a virus that will bring us all down....
KA7RRA
01-30-2004, 12:30 AM
I think we should have one class of license with full privileges on all bands, and 5 wpm code.
I'm a general class and have at times thought about up grading to advance, or extra, but I don't get that much more freqs to make it worth my while. Also I don't think being a advance or extra makes you a better class op than anybody else ( look at 75-80 mtrs.) Its the person behind the radio and his attitude that makes the operator. I have known some techs that arte better operators than some generals,advance or extras.
If I become a extra class operator dose that make me a ham-god???
did getting or advance or extra make you a better operater or a god?
Dave
N0KLT
01-30-2004, 12:45 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA7RRA @ Jan. 29 2004,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><snip>
If I become a extra class operator dose that make me a ham-god???
did getting or advance or extra make you a better operater or a god?
Dave[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Only if you think it does.
73
Gary NØKLT
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WB2WIK @ Jan. 28 2004,16:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not only don't you hear much of this on HF, you really don't hear much of it on the air, anywhere.
The "warring factions," as they are, all seem to be on the internet where one doesn't even need a license to participate, so I don't know what everyone's arguing about.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll second that. I don't even hear the things that are mentioned here, profanity, name calling etc. It seems as though it's made up to make the other class look bad.
Get on the air and call CQ.
Dave
N1XHF
01-30-2004, 12:56 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA7RRA @ Jan. 29 2004,17:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we should have one class of license with full privileges on all bands, and 5 wpm code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think that is a fantastic idea! I second that! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif No more classification of an individual because of their license class.
Why even have a test, let's just hand out extra class ham tickets, with the new government run prescription drug program. And while your at it, don't forget the free government butter.
DAN,K3XR
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 01:45 AM
Now that sounds like a real advancement for Amateur Radio, A one class fits all, and the test could be one question," Did you spell your name with no more than 5 (five) errors? " If you can answer yes,no thats too complicated maybe just a box to check for your license.
Just as they have infiltrated our educational system and our local,state ,and federal goverment the socialists's are making in-roads into Amateur Radio.
No more need to study and learn, any information you may need to complete your duties will be supplied to you. Just sit back and enjoy your HOBBY, and keep a watch on your fellow Amateurs that they don't stray from the approved agenda. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
ka8jhm
01-30-2004, 02:33 AM
UEY
100% correct. Too many people today look upon any amateur license as an " entitlement" that should be issued freely to anyone that desires it, which is bull.
All amateur tickets should be earned as in the past.
Those that would have the fcc pass them out like confetti on new years eve, should just stick to the internet where anything goes.
I was always taught that if something is obtained too easy, that item was not really appreciated, and not protected, and I still believe this to be true.
Bob tbtm
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 02:41 AM
KA8JHM,
BOB how right you are and the Internet is a prime example of that. Not since Ali Baba discovered the cave have so many thieves and con men been gathered in one place. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
kg4zar
01-30-2004, 02:57 AM
I am also a rather new ham, although I spent over 30 years coming up through cb, starting well before "Convoy", "Smokey and the Bandit" and "10-4 front door". I grew tired of all of the "good buddy" bs and moved on to SSB, which I really love, even now. I enjoy antenna construction and making distant contacts with low power and a homemade beam.
Therefore, I am here as KG4ZAR.
I have very little interest in CW, or even much below 50mhz but I am studing for my General ticket.
With all that said...... I wonder what the FCC thinks about all the childish bickering and "class warfare" Ive seen here, on kyham website, and heard on the waves this last week. Could it be that this uproar may be just what the BPL bunch has been waiting for???
Could it be this fight is the fall of am empire???
Come on people, cut the crap and work together or take a chance on losing everything we have.
Larry Brown
KG4ZAR
Welcome to the wonderful world of amateur cb .ARRL proposes " Boxtop Generals " , I guess " Boxtop Extras " will be next .
ke4pjw
01-30-2004, 03:33 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 28 2004,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that sounds like a real advancement for Amateur Radio, A one class fits all, and the test could be one question," Did you spell your name with no more than 5 (five) errors? " If you can answer yes,no thats too complicated maybe just a box to check for your license.
Just as they have infiltrated our educational system and our local,state ,and federal goverment the socialists's are making in-roads into Amateur Radio.
No more need to study and learn, any information you may need to complete your duties will be supplied to you. Just sit back and enjoy your HOBBY, and keep a watch on your fellow Amateurs that they don't stray from the approved agenda. :([/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ORV, why do you think it is the Communist countries are keeping a code requirement for their licensees?
K3STX
01-30-2004, 03:34 AM
All this "bickering" has nothing to do with your class of license. If that is what you take away from all this back-and-forth you are missing the point.
Do I look down at Glen because he has his Advanced license while I am an Extra? (wow, does lightning strike me now?). Of course not. The "bickering" is about ones opinion as to whether it is important for the ARS to require significant testing of skills to access certain bands. Sure, the OTs are in general more old-fashioned (you know, hard work and all that stuff) and many of them are on HF and have Advanced/Extra tickets. Many who do not support the "old-fashioned" ways of Ham radio (CW testing, rigorous written exams, limited bands) are seen as the OTs as lazy "I want it now" immediate satisfaction types.
There are those on both "sides" with an license class that might surprise you. But that there is strong disagreement can not possibly be a surprise to anyone!
I think the "bickering" is useful. Every now and then there are particularly insightful points made, and it makes me think again about my position on things. Isn't that the point of debate?
Just because an Extra is arguing with a No-code Tech does not make it class warfare; it makes it an argument.
paul
kg4zar
01-30-2004, 03:53 AM
Paul your point is well taken. My problem with the "bickering" is that as an elected office holder here in Kentucky,and a member of the executive board of an eight county conservation development council, I have seen both State and Federal government withdraw funding and priviledge from groups that were in turmoil over SOP's similar to what is happening in the amateur community. With the BPL gang hoovering like vultures over band plans, I see the need for solidarity among all classes. There are folks in the federal government that would sell us out to the commercial inteests at the drop of a hat, and they have the hat!
Larry
N0WVA
01-30-2004, 04:01 AM
Most of what I hear has nothing to do with high class "looking down" on the lower class. It DOES have to do with the very real threat of big-mouth, ignormouses who hold no regard for rules and regulation , who are waiting on the sidelines to invade ham radio with the least amount of effort, and make a mess out of the relatively sane conditions we have now. Now, with that said, do you agree we should make the exams alittle harder, or do you feel they are too hard now? I see nothing wrong with speaking up and defending what you have earned.
K3STX
01-30-2004, 04:01 AM
Larry,
Well, that would obviously not be good. I would not put it beyond a beaurocrat to trash something simply because they do not like the tone of someones voice. However, I suppose one could also say "Wow, these guys are so passionate about Ham radio, and they work out their troubles amongst themselves, and they do such a valuable service to the community we should keep it going!" (I'm a glass half-full kind of guy)
Call me naive, but I honestly have trouble believing some industry/agency reads this in the first place, let alone sees it as a sign of "weakness" so can have a coup and take over our bands.
paul
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 04:19 AM
KE4PJW,
Terry are you saying the ARRL screwed that up and didn't even get it right ?
K3STX,
Paul, I don't see it as a class war, it never has been in the over 50 years I have been around Amateur Radio. All this Class distinction controversy is some thing brought in by outsiders moving into the ranks and wanting to enjoy the full benefits of Amateur radio with out earning it. They think by stirring the pot,and demostrating they can have their way. The major courses taught in schools now is demostrating and how to make protest signs . #
They enter Amateur radio enexperienced totally uninformed and with the attitude they want to start at the top. They do not give consideration to the fact that others who enjoy the benefits earned the right to do it. They want full benefits and they want them now. If they cause enough turmoil they believe others will give in to their demands. Apparently this method was successful at home and continued at school. #Well it looks like ARRL has bypassed the will of it's paying members to meet the demands of these non paying interlopers.
Yes OT's are usually old fashion because they have been there and done that and have usually learned from the experience, some learn more than others, but they are at least dry behind the ears.To walk in from the street into any organization totally uninformed and enexperienced and begin to demand changes is the action of a fool.Those who pamper and cater to these fools are themselves no better than the fools.
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
N0WVA
01-30-2004, 04:55 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 29 2004,21:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KE4PJW,
Terry are you saying the ARRL screwed that up and didn't even get it right ?
K3STX,
Paul, I don't see it as a class war, it never has been in the over 50 years I have been around Amateur Radio. All this Class distinction controversy is some thing brought in by outsiders moving into the ranks and wanting to enjoy the full benefits of Amateur radio with out earning it. They think by stirring the pot,and demostrating they can have their way. The major courses taught in schools now is demostrating and how to make protest signs . #
They enter Amateur radio enexperienced totally uninformed and with the attitude they want to start at the top. They do not give consideration to the fact that others who enjoy the benefits earned the right to do it. They want full benefits and they want them now. If they cause enough turmoil they believe others will give in to their demands. Apparently this method was successful at home and continued at school. #Well it looks like ARRL has bypassed the will of it's paying members to meet the demands of these non paying interlopers.
Yes OT's are usually old fashion because they have been there and done that and have usually learned from the experience, some learn more than others, but they are at least dry behind the ears.To walk in from the street into any organization totally uninformed and enexperienced and begin to demand changes is the action of a fool.Those who pamper and cater to these fools are themselves no better than the fools.
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is why I think entry level should be given a time limit to upgrade or get out. These are the ones who turn into "whiners" and need to seriously contemplate what thier motives are for retaining a license. We really do need to do away with all these crybabies, and keep the ones who are serious about becoming a respectable amateur. Entry level is for learning the rules of the road and theory. If that cant be taught in a reasonable amount of time, then back ya go!! Come back later when your ready to take it seriously!
k5rna
01-30-2004, 05:15 AM
Someone please convince me it has not become an ego trip.Us OF's never in the old days ask what class license any one had cuz no one cared.Some time when sending a qsl card you might notice in the call book what class they were,but not always.Has any one besides me noticed that the first words out of the new 5wpm cw no theory extras are,I AM AN EXTRA.Need i say more?And i was asked on another post why i got out of ham radio some time back.Even the new 5wpm no theory generals do the same to the lower classes.Sheesh.And 30 something years ago i thought cb had gone to pot.These are my opinions and all typing errors are mine only.I now turn it back to WW3.
ke4pjw
01-30-2004, 05:48 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 28 2004,22:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KE4PJW,
Terry are you saying the ARRL screwed that up and didn't even get it right ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From reports I have read (Including the ARRL report), many of the former Soviet states are retaining their code requirements. It is my understanding that most of these countries are much more socialistic (and communistic) than the countries that have dropped the code requirement. If that is wrong, please correct me.
My question to you is based on that information being true.
It was really just idle curiosity as to what you thought about the hardcore commies keeping the code and why they were doing so.
KD7WHQ
01-30-2004, 06:14 AM
Add in tube based radios in the MIG's, and where does THAT put it? lol http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 07:06 AM
KD7WHQ,
You jest about tube radio's in MIG's, yes true, the reason, we did not share our Solid State technology with them so they continued the development of tubes, from where we left off they continued development. I believe tubes have a better prognostication when exposed to a nuclear blast then solid state. I worked with a Russian Engineer and during coffee breaks she and I would discuss this very subject, don't sell them short.
KE4PJW,
Terry, I don't know what went on, it was sort of understood that the Russians and the Germans and a couple more were to be joined by the US and possibly the Brits in voting to retain the CW testing #at WARC, but obviously our vote changed for some reason but the others were good for their word. Some one posted about after a Nuclear Blast CW would be the only mode of communications available for a long period of time but others made fun of him, obviously he has the last laugh, but the joke is on us. I really don't know what their philosophy is but your right they have retained CW testing and it's use. In my opinion it surely bears watching and would be a pretty smart move to learn and become profecient in CW.
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
K4JSR
01-30-2004, 07:49 AM
I disagree with everybody! Just because I've been a ham for
fifty years. I'm old, fat, ugly, my feet are flat, I'm opinionated
as all heck, and I've got bad breath! And those are just a
few of my good points! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The truth of the matter is that class warfare has been around for ever! I have something you haven't! NYAH! NYAH!
In my day, when radios had a big wind up key on top because
electricity had not yet been invented, I hit the ham bands
with my shiny new K4 call and my prepubescent voice and
got told, "NO LIDS, NO KIDS, NO SPACE CADETS!"
Now I get told to get the hell out of the way at hamfests
and get the hell offa there air 'cuz I'm an old fart!
I'm telling all of you. get out now! It only gets worse!
And I enjoy every minute of it! Why? Class warfare don't
affect those of us with no class at all! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
We are all gonna die, if we live long enough!
CHORTLE! CHORTLE! And a toothless grin!
73, Cal K4JSR http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
ke4pjw
01-30-2004, 03:28 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 29 2004,01:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In my opinion it surely bears watching and would be a pretty smart move to learn and become profecient in CW.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think that is something that we can all agree on http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Reguardless of what becomes of the requirement, if you want to be serious about DX, CW is -=*THE*=- way to go.
Take Care
--Terry
n6hle
01-30-2004, 04:13 PM
I read a lot of posts here that support that there is a war between the classes. One would think that being in a perpetual pissing contest and an all out class war is what amateur radio is all about if their only exposure to the hobby was the qrz.com forum.
However, I have NEVER seen (or heard) such attitudes on the air or at the local club meetings. Maybe it's just something that I'll encounter when I upgrade and get down on HF. I seriously doubt it though. I truly believe that a majority of ops out there are decent guys/gals. That's all that I have experienced so far.
I can say with almost certainty that if I had come to these boards and read the posts here before I got my ticket that I would have never gone down to take the test.
Something we all need to keep in mind next time we decide to take a step up on our soap-boxes and carry on this class war is that these boards might be somebody's only sight into amateur radio and might very well be as far as they will ever go.
K0RGR
01-30-2004, 06:45 PM
I've never understood this kind of stuff, and I really don't hang out with any that do. In my eyes, anybody who sat through any ham exam is automatically a blood brother. OK, there are some who are just shirt-tail relations, but they are very few and far between, and it has nothing at all to do with what license they have.
Part of the charm of ham radio is that you never know who you might be talking to. I've been surprised quite a few times. I am often impressed with the credentials of those I meet on the air, including a lot of newbies. Odd how some of us choose to look down on people we would respect in other fields because we think we took a harder exam than they did.
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 08:09 PM
KØRGR/ KG6PTD
I think this Class War idea is some thing of a fairly new phenomenon. I never noticed it before the Internet became so popular. On the air it never came up, except if maybe you were in QSO in one of the sub-bands and some one new broke in, for instance in the Advanced portion and they remarked they were only a General then they would be encouraged to go back to the General portion, not to look down on them as some might interpret it, but to keep them from being cited. In fact that situation was a fairly common occurance. I often wondered why they would risk being cited when they only had to upgrade to join the group. My personal thought is it comes from the recently educated in the public school systems. This kind of thinking is taught, the liberal far left socialist philosophy. Every one is an equal and the success's and gains of the individual are not to be celebrated. No one should be allowed to step out side the box to learn or show any initiative, or to attain personal gain, all effeorts are to be directed toward the whole to be shared equally.To me being surronded by Mr. Goodwrench on all sides would make me nervious not to mention boring. No I don't think it is a problem as yet on the air, now this new crop being turned out onto HF may be another question. Many of them are newly educated, and are from this "the world owes me some thing and I want it now " generation, couple that with the idea that every one is required to share what they have earned and it coiuld be a problem.
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 08:33 PM
KE4PJW,
You bring up a good point Terry, if you are serious about DX you must be CW proficient. There are many more areas of Amateur Radio in which CW is required if you are going to do your best. One of the favorite defenses to the no-code crowd is they are going to stay on VHF/UHF so they don't need code. OH!! the sweet innocence of the young and the uninformed. Any one who has used VHF for any thing more than a 2 meter repeater is well aware that CW plays a major role, small signal work, EME,uwave distance records,Es , F2,all of the more serious modes require an amount of CW proficiency.
Oscar Wilde once said "To get back to ones youth, one has merely to repeat one's follies". #
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
Hi Orv,
Let me tee one up for you: A 7 year old girl has made Extra Class. She had to pass the CW test to do it. Alot of other folks seem to have difficulty with the telegraphy test. What do you make of this?
ka8jhm
01-30-2004, 08:50 PM
Doug, wva;
I'm afraid I cannot agree with your idea or statement about "entry level should have a time limit, or get out".
I for one have been a Novice class for twenty five years, and see no reason why I should lose my limited privileges as they now stand.
Until recently it was necessary to copy 13wpm to advance to general, a requirement I could not meet, after thousands of hours and many years of trying, 10 or 11 wpm, yes, but not 13. I still argue the fact we should keep the testing and the code requirement and not give these tickets so freely to those that will not or cannot study.
To this day I enjoy the frequencies I do have and still work CW at every chance, and have no interest in uhf or vhf.
I will, within the next few months, take my upgrade to tech, and on to general, although I would have rather met the original requirements of 13 wpm.
Bob tbtm http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
ki4bgo
01-30-2004, 08:55 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg6ptd @ Jan. 30 2004,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read a lot of posts here that support that there is a war between the classes. #One would think that being in a perpetual pissing contest and an all out class war is what amateur radio is all about if their only exposure to the hobby was the qrz.com forum.
However, I have NEVER seen (or heard) such attitudes on the air or at the local club meetings. #Maybe it's just something that I'll encounter when I upgrade and get down on HF. #I seriously doubt it though. #I truly believe that a majority of ops out there are decent guys/gals. #That's all that I have experienced so far.
I can say with almost certainty that if I had come to these boards and read the posts here before I got my ticket that I would have never gone down to take the test.
Something we all need to keep in mind next time we decide to take a step up on our soap-boxes and carry on this class war is that these boards might be somebody's only sight into amateur radio and might very well be as far as they will ever go.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Absolutely true! Our club has a great bunch of amateurs and everyone I've spoken with, on the air, were very well mannered, and helpful too, regardless of license class. It's gotta be an "internet thing" #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 09:03 PM
AG4YO,
Yes that is great and a 5 year old I think a couple of weeks ago, of course they don't have the maturity to know exactly what they are doing but I wonder how much was push from the parents or if these were just special kids. In all fairness I had trouble with my CW, first I got stuck on that 10 wpm plateau then again at 15 wpm but having mastered that, I started to freeze in front of the FCC examineer. But I kept after it, because it was some thing I wanted, and I was always taught you whine and cry you get nothing, you want it you work for it and earn it. As the new people are fond of saying times change,this is the 21st century,if you want some thing you have to learn to whine and cry to get your way. I would be willing to bet the 7 year old didn't whine and cry to get her ticket!! #
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
Here's the pitch, low and outside....Orv swings! CRACK!!!
Its a long fly ball to left field....going...going...gone!
HOME RUN!
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 09:17 PM
AG4YO,
Did you really have to say LEFT field,it is bad enough trying to live down being left handed,make me feel like I'm related to the Keneddy's or some thing......... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K3STX
01-30-2004, 09:27 PM
As I said, I don't think this is class warfare. However, you don't hear this kind of discussion on HF, that is certainly true. I think part of the reason for this is obvious: the only people on HF passed their code test and passed at least their General exam.
I think for these HF ops there really is nothing to "war" over. They have all worked for what they have and now they have it. No problem.
paul
Orv, when you LEFT the examiners office, after using your LEFT hand to send code, did you have to turn to the right or to the LEFT to find your car for the ride home?
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 09:42 PM
K3STX,
Paul funny you should ask,the testing was done at the field office in SAN FRANCISCO (Pisa leans right ,SF leans left)it was the Custom's House on Battery street 2 nd floor,as you came into the building the stairs were on your LEFT. In the office and as you walked in the code testing room was on the LEFT. When you came out of the office you turned LEFT down the Hall to the stairs which were on the LEFT,you walked across the street to the parking Garage which was on the LEFT, as you entered the caretaker was on your LEFT you turned #down the long row of cars and parked on the LEFT. When you drove out the toll collector was on the LEFT,what does that tell you about the politics in SF??
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
Sounds like a " Left Coast " thang to me http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
yv6azc
01-30-2004, 10:05 PM
First of all I must apologize to you all for poking my nose into this affair. I’ve read carefully all previous posts and many others related to the same issue during long time ago.
Most of the countries around the world have always had different types of licenses and therefore, different privileges assigned to each one. There is no doubt that it has been done basically under educational standards that allow amateurs to advance according to their knowledge and/or expertise. As I see, the problem –no the class war- always arises when standards change or new ones are being introduced in order to get a new license or to upgrade existing ones. I wonder why standards must be changed. Well, I think technology is the answer. Twenty six years ago I could fix most of the failures of my Johnson Viking Valiant but now I can only pray every night for my FT-100’s health. Does this mean that my license is not valid anymore ? Of course not, but I must admit that this world is changing every day and rules, regulations and standards must change accordingly. Even though I’ve always favored CW for new licenses, I wouldn’t disagree with dropping it as a requirement, but preferably if there were a replacement instead. I can’t say what kind of new requirement it could be, but for sure I’d wish one that could mean a little bit of effort anyway.
In the meanwhile I will continue to consider as my fellow hams all those who have a ham license –no matter the class- in wherever part of the bands they can be.
73 & God Bless
Jose - yv6azc
K6UEY
01-30-2004, 10:27 PM
YV6AZC,
You are correct Jose, but is it necessary to replace a mode, why not add a new one but retain the old one. The Mode is a means of communication, and to communicate you must both speak or understand a common language in the case of CW it is understood #the world over, rich countries as well as poor countries, so it is accepted as a common language with which one can communicate. Man being the lazy person he is if the common language is not kept at the forefront it will wither and die. So As Amateurs the world over it is important to maintain CW as the common language. That is not to say other modes can not be used, but when they fail for what ever reason we still have CW to fall back on and communicate.
Thank you for contributing your views, another International view point is very refreshing with all the smoke and mirrors our discussion has gone through.
BEST DX es 73, # ORV
ORV
K6UEY
ARRL Life Member
N0WVA
01-31-2004, 01:34 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka8jhm @ Jan. 30 2004,13:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Doug, wva;
#I'm afraid I cannot agree with your idea or statement about "entry level should have a time limit, or get out".
I for one have been a Novice class for twenty five years, and see no reason why I should lose my limited privileges as they now stand.
#Until recently it was necessary to copy 13wpm to advance to general, a requirement I could not meet, after thousands of hours and many years of trying, 10 or 11 wpm, yes, but not 13. #I still argue the fact we should keep the testing and the code requirement and not give these tickets so freely to those that will not or cannot study.
#To this day I enjoy the frequencies I do have and still work CW at every chance, and have no interest in uhf or vhf. #
#I will, within the next few months, take my upgrade to tech, and on to general, although I would have rather met the original requirements of 13 wpm.
#Bob # #tbtm # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Bob, I understand your point of view, and believe you are an exception. I am not really hard against getting rid of the morse testing, its just that after its removal, what is left will be some resemblance of a test in which you get all the exact questions and answers ahead of time. Any lazy bum who wants to abuse ham radio and only wants to inflate his ego will have access to the same frequencies that the rest of us do. And there are tons of these types of people out there. Sure, some have managed to get through so far, but I think that its just the tip of the iceberg, compared to whats waiting on the sidelines now. So I suppose, my main point is, its not just about code, there are a few more things that need to be taken into account. Would you agree with a test that actually required one to know theory, instead of memorization of the answers? Surely, if the code was removed, and more stringent testing put in its place, then all would be able to pass with no morse "plateaus" getting in the way.