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W2PSK
09-17-2012, 01:07 AM
I have an FT-7900 radio in my car that I use for both ham radio and for public safety. There are two frequencies programmed in that I can talk on that fall within the public safety frequencies that need to be set to narrow bandwidth by January 1st. I understand that if you use a radio that is not set to narrow bandwidth to talk on frequencies that have been switched, the audio is distorted, or you may not even be able to communicate at all.

The FT-7900 has a setting "MIC Gain Control" that enables you to set "microphone input level" to 'narrow' for "operating on tightly-clustered frequencies (channel spacing of 12.5 or 15 kHz)". My question is this: If I set this to narrow, will it still allow me to talk on ham repeaters and FM simplex without distortion to other hams not monitoring on "FM-N" (FM Narrow) and will this allow me to communicate on the public safety frequencies that are changed to narrow band?

W0LPQ
09-17-2012, 01:21 AM
You probably already know the radio is not legal on any frequency other than amateur radio. So, why worry.

KA1MDA
09-23-2012, 05:37 AM
Count me IB4TL!

W9MMS
10-01-2012, 12:12 AM
[QUOTE=W0LPQ;2650601]You probably already know the radio is not legal on any frequency other than amateur radio. So, why worry.[/QUOTE

If ever there was ever a closed minded reply, this is one of them.

The question is a very VALID one.

>>> I have an FT-7900 radio in my car that I use for both ham radio and for public safety. <<<
Underline word here is PUBLIC Safety!

The question was in relation to the new mandate by the FCC
http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Solutions/Product+Solutions/Public+Safety+Communications/Narrowbanding_US-EN
There has been numerous discussion on the subject from time to time, and even a couple of articles by better know Ham Operators.
http://www.w8ji.com/mixing_wide_and_narrow_modes.htm
I can't speak with any Authority, since I'm in the same boat as you trying to make some sense of the whole "Wide vs Narrow " FM.

(((73))) Milverton.

W2PSK
10-01-2012, 01:00 AM
Thank you for that reply, Milverton. I wanted to edit my original post to remove the model of the radio (I can't edit my posts apparently) so I wouldn't get replies like that because some people just insist on playing radio cop on the internet. I've heard non-narrow banded radios talking on the public safety frequencies I am allowed to talk on and it's really not bad, just won't comply with the new FCC rules come January, but I rarely need to use those frequencies. I'll keep looking into this and hopefully I'll find the correct answer.

K9STH
10-01-2012, 05:44 PM
MMS and SSB:

The "key word" Public Safety definitely makes the request blatantly ILLEGAL operation!

There are definite certification requirements for all 47 CFR Part 90 operation any radio designed for amateur radio operation will NOT meet those certification requirements. Using equipment certificated for use on 47 CFR Part 90 (or any other Part of 47 CFR) on amateur radio frequencies is fine. It is the "other way around" that is not legal.

A number of years ago, a major city fire department decided to "save money" and replace their aging equipment with modified amateur radio equipment believing that since they were a major city that everything would be fine. Wrong! That particular city received major fines from the FCC and had to replace the equipment with certificated radios. The end result was that replacing their equipment with non-certificated equipment ended up costing, in the long run, over 3-times what it would have cost to obtain certificated radios in the first place.

In another city police officers were using 2-meter frequencies for communications which is another violation of FCC regulations.

Using non-certificated radios on frequencies on which certificated radios are required can result in one, or more, of the following penalties, and even more penalties:

Fines up to $11,000 per day per radio from the user.

Fines up to $11,000 per day per radio from the station licensee.

Confiscation of the equipment.

Loss of the user's amateur radio operator's license and prohibition of getting another one for the remainder of that operator's life.

Loss of the station license.

In some cases, imprisonment (means "go to jail") of the person using the equipment.

The FCC generally comes down harder on licensed amateur radio operators who use non-certificated equipment on frequencies where certificated equipment is required because that operator, by signing his/her license application, certifies that they know and will obey all regulations concerning lawful operation of transmitting equipment. Those regulations concerning operation of equipment are contained all over 47 CFR and not just in 47 CFR Part 97.

The FCC has, for decades, charged the Amateur Radio Service to be "self policing" which charges every amateur radio operator to condemn illegal operation. Unfortunately, there are some amateur radio operators who believe that pointing out illegal operations by other amateur radio operators should not be done. However, such an opinion is contrary to the spirit of the Amateur Radio Service as defined by the FCC.

There are those who "point out" that Federal Law allows use of non-certificated equipment in emergency situations. However, that "loophole" has a number of restraints which limit such usage. First of all, that emergency basically has to involve the direct safety of life or property and that does NOT include things like an automobile accident where someone's life is not in danger, a speeder on the highway, and so forth. Also, there has to be absolutely no other possible means of communication available which includes telephone, cellular telephone, a radio transmitter licensed in another service, and even "CB" radio. Frankly, the possibility of someone actually needing to use a non-certificated radio are extremely small as to be statistically zero.

There are amateur radio operators who are either paid or volunteer members of various public safety organizations who want to be able to communicate on that department's frequency / frequencies and also use the same radio for amateur radio operation. As such, those individuals modify their amateur radio equipment for operation outside of the amateur radio frequencies. This is absolutely illegal if any transmitting is done on frequencies outside of the amateur radio bands. The solution for this desire is to obtain a certificated radio for use on the commercial frequencies and to program into that radio the desired amateur radio frequencies. The cost of doing so is generally no more than what the amateur radio equipment costs.

Glen, K9STH

WB2WIK
10-01-2012, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=W0LPQ;2650601]You probably already know the radio is not legal on any frequency other than amateur radio. So, why worry.[/QUOTE

If ever there was ever a closed minded reply, this is one of them.

The question is a very VALID one.

It's a valid question, and received valid answers.

One cannot lawfully use an FT-7900 on public service bands in the U.S.

In some other countries, it might be allowed, but not here. As Glen pointed out, the penalties are severe and just not worth it -- and if you scroll through the FCC published notices, you'll see lots of people, including municipal governments, have been caught and fined, and had equipment confiscated. It happens often.

KA1MDA
10-01-2012, 07:05 PM
...it's really not bad, just won't comply with the new FCC rules come January...It doesn't comply with the old FCC rules now!

KM3F
10-02-2012, 03:45 AM
It seems like these people are like CBers.
They rather believe in myths or that they can get away with things.
They come here and ask, then won't listen to the correct info even when pointed out in the law.
If you go narrow band with a ham rig, there is a good chance you will still bleed over to the next higher and lower channel on that band.
This is one reason narrow banding has been instituted to make more band space available.
These people come along with Ham gear and defeat that intent.
Technically, when' your' the deviation is reduced, audio goes down with it.
The new equipment has design changes to take care of this as well as tighter filtering.
Don't use a Ham rig on these bands!
I just discussed this with a tech working for a com. co. doing new installations every day to be ready for the turn over date.
You can't defeat it and not be caught onto by some one who knows what they are hearing.

W2PSK
10-02-2012, 03:59 AM
Leave it to the self appointed internet radio cops to reply to posts with dribble that is irrelevant to the original question. I bet you've never sped, blown a red light, changed lanes without using your turn signal, jay walked or spit on the sidewalk either, or does your strict compliance to laws, rules and regulation only apply to ham radio?

If this place has moderators, feel free to lock this thread.

W6GQ
10-02-2012, 06:57 AM
Although the FT-7900 is a beautiful radio, the cost to get it to meet the upcoming narrow band standards would far out weigh the cost of buying a narrow band public safety radio. Since the 7900 was never designed for public safety use, using it in public service would be a risk (distortion). Remember, these manufacturers try to make the radio as cheap as they can to be marketable on the amateur side. They "eliminate" whatever they can because the standards are not as strict as public safety use radios.

If you like Yaesu, like I do, the commercial side of Yaesu is Vertex Standard and they offer some AWESOME but affordable Narrow Band radios. Plus you can get the encryption boards with these Vertex radios if your department plans on using them????, again, the cost for this modification to use the encryption boards on a 7900 would be outrageous.

http://www.vertexstandard.com/lmr/Mobiles

I hope that helped

So, as requested by the author, I will close this thread.



I have an FT-7900 radio in my car that I use for both ham radio and for public safety. There are two frequencies programmed in that I can talk on that fall within the public safety frequencies that need to be set to narrow bandwidth by January 1st. I understand that if you use a radio that is not set to narrow bandwidth to talk on frequencies that have been switched, the audio is distorted, or you may not even be able to communicate at all.

The FT-7900 has a setting "MIC Gain Control" that enables you to set "microphone input level" to 'narrow' for "operating on tightly-clustered frequencies (channel spacing of 12.5 or 15 kHz)". My question is this: If I set this to narrow, will it still allow me to talk on ham repeaters and FM simplex without distortion to other hams not monitoring on "FM-N" (FM Narrow) and will this allow me to communicate on the public safety frequencies that are changed to narrow band?

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