New Home Building. What would you do differently to your radio room, grounding, etc

[K5AHH]

--Hi, all. If you had to do it over again when it comes to your radio room, grounding, setup in general, what would you do differently? In an earlier post, I asked about how to bring coax, cables, etc. inside your home from the outside. It just got me to thinking of various potential problems I may or may not have in regards to my upcoming radio room in our new home. I mainly just want to avoid problems and do it correctly the first time. Our new house will have those "new fangled" 3 prong A.C. receptacles, even! The house I live in has mostly 2 prong, except in the utility room and one outlet each in both bathrooms, lol. I have started reading on www.w8ji.com (http://www.w8ji.com) regarding grounding to learn how to "do it right". Any valuable websites you could give me would be appreciated. Tips, tricks, etc. would be helpful. Thanks for any help.

[KC7YRA]

Start with the basics. If it were me, I would start off with a huge copper plate in the bottom of the foundation hole. I'm talking 8'x8' sheet of copper. Doesn't have to be think, but lots of surface area. That would be tied into the building ground and come up directly under the electrical service entrance. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING in the house would come or go into the house near this electrical service entrance which would be tied into this plate.

I would install a number of 4 outlet boxes every other stud, all the way around my radio room. I would also have them put in 2 or 3 220v outlets. Each box would be on it's own 20amp breaker.

Inside the walls, I would install metal conduit cable chases that go to the outside and up the the attic. Those could easily be behind a metal door/plate in the wall where you could have a plethora of bulkhead connectors for all of your antennas. This plate would (of course) also be grounded to the single point ground system.

Outside, I would bury conduit for cable runs to almost every corner of the yard as well as laying down grids of radials for future verticals. Under the grass, it could wait until you simply cut a plug of grass out and tied into the grid.

Ohhh, I would also put in a skylight so I could look up and watch my beams and see how they are doing.

That's just me though :)


Brad

[KA9UCN]

I put 450-ohm window line in my wall. It is a wood house with plywood inside wall and outside wood siding. The inside is finished in the type that looks like 2-inch pine boards. It is 3/8-inch thick wallboard. I used brass screws with knurled binding nuts and washers so the attachment points on the inside and out look like the post on a j38 key. I ran the line between the studs were there was no wiring. Entering the house behind and 6 inches above the bench. It made for a nice looking install allowing ladder line to attach to the inside in a short run to the tuner and attaches to the outside just below the rafter line.

Joe

[K5AHH]

--Assuming a tower on my property needs some kind of permit before it can be installed, who would I need to go to for that? Thanks.

[N0AZZ]

Your city or county building codes office for a permit. Brad had some very good ideas on the electrical and grounds. I would agree with him too put in 3 times as many outlets as you think you need one other thing put them in a seperate breaker box and have them on a lot of different breakers so the shack is all by itself on it.

The conduct is a good idea always use perforated pipe with the holes on the bottom with 1-2" rock in the bottom of the trench and make it 4" at least for future needs. All of my towers have at least 3 yagis on them (3+ runs of at the least LMR-400DB use the best if not hard line) yes for HF also and a rotor control cable and a ground that comes back to the main ground. I always run a 12v DC line to the base of all my towers and verticals because many things need the DC power you may end up using in the future mast mounted preamp, remote tuners to name a few. For UHF/VHF always use hard line if you have a vertical I have a Hy Gain AV-18HT 10-160m it has LMR-400DB ran to it.

The one point I beg to differ with Brad is the matter of radials I will list them in descending order. The best ones are the raised ones and you don't need as many per band they are about 12-24" off the ground but are a problem for most people. The second best are radials that are laid on top of the ground stapled to the ground with radials bought off eBay. They can be used with existing lawns or new when seeding ground. Third are the buried radials they just do not radiate as well as the others do and they are the other the other half of all verticals. Verticals without radials just do not work as well as one that has them.

Plan on good lighting for the shack and around your workbench in it that's a must also. I was not a ham when I built my house but did draw the plans for it wish I had been. One thing I would have done was the person who built our cabinets I would have them build a custom console in the shack and a very large one and a work bench. Oh well just a couple of ideas but the radials I personally tried after reading all the data I like to see for myself.

Just enjoy for the rest of your life in a hobby that can be also.

[N0SYA]

Aluminum foil wallpaper, serious grounding, grounded screens on windows, keg, bbq and/or pizza, baby wipes.

[WA6MHZ]

I would build up a 3rd or 4th story to the house, with minimal metal as the roof would be used for mounting a big antenna. 4 stories up would give GREAT antenna height! On the roof would be a flat deck for mounting antennas around the perimeter. Maybe 2 or 3 different antennas could be mounted up there, providing they didn't hit each other when turning. Also, an Elevator would be installed to allow for bringing equipment up to the 4th floor where the radio shack would be. This would make for very SHORT coax runs! It would look something like a Forest Watchtower with a flat roof for ease in walking around on. On the 4th floor would be a wide 360 degree deck for safety so that work on the roof would allow only a fall to the deck. It might not look too aesthic, but WHO CARES? I want a functional Radio shack in the sky!

[KY5U]

--Hi, all. If you had to do it over again when it comes to your radio room, grounding, setup in general, what would you do differently?
I use the "Sockdrawer" method of grounding. When I am gone or when a storm is coming, I remove the antenna and power from my rig and put it in the sock drawer of my wardrobe/dresser. It is 100% effective. Ever hear of lightning striking a sock drawer? I also have an el cheapo hf rig on a battery and using an attic dipole. I can remain on the air if need be.

[WA4BRL]

If you're still in the design stage, consider the shack layout and position within the house shown here:

http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o354/wa4brl/Radio/Hamshack72a.jpg

1. The operating desk is not against a wall. This allows great access to the back of your rigs.
2. Bay window allows great outdoor view and bench seating for visitors.
3. Test bench is against the wall to allow multiple shelves.
4. Extra storage in a separate closet.
5. Shack is located immediately between kitchen and bathroom with doors to each.

This sketch is scaled to show a 12'x12' room which is likely the smallest it would all fit into. Plan for as much more space as the home will accommodate, especially in the storage closet. A walk-in closet or even a separate room on the other side of that door would not be out of line for many.

You'll want to install a low impedance ground path from the inside to outdoors as the building is built. A roll of copper flashing will accomplish this very well. Run the flashing up the outside foundation wall and across the sub-floor all the way in to the interior wall at the test bench. The exterior wall plate and wall is then placed above it. When the finish floor is laid, patches can be left out for access to the copper at the operating desk and the test bench.

Grounding outside the foundation should utilize standard ground rod installations as shown bu Glem, K9STH on this page:

http://k9sth.com/uploads/R.F._Grounding_primer_2.pdf


I hope this gives you a good starting point for your own ideas.

[AC0H]

A lot of good advice here but I think the first step is deciding where the shack is going to be.
First floor or basement. Second floor stations have serious grounding/RFI issues that arent easy to solve most of the time.
Since it's new construction have the builder put a 15x20 "man cave" in the basement.

[N2RJ]

To the ham who said 8x8 sheet of copper - YIKES! Rich guy!!!

I would instead opt for a ground ring.

Ground ring around the house with rods 16ft apart
Bond everything
Bond your ham ground to your service ground (NEC rule, and generally a good idea)
Use 00 wire
Bond top and bottom of tower
Grounding bus bar at the cable entry, everything grounded there with wires as short as possible

Last strike I had, I lost a TV preamp and the CI-V interface in my Icom ProIII. I didn't lose anything else.

[WB2WIK]

A lot of good advice here but I think the first step is deciding where the shack is going to be.
First floor or basement. Second floor stations have serious grounding/RFI issues that arent easy to solve most of the time.
Since it's new construction have the builder put a 15x20 "man cave" in the basement.

^^I agree. Avoid 2nd floor unless it's impossible to avoid. Bring everything in at ground level, it's safer. Basement shacks rock, if you have a basement.

[WB2WIK]

--Assuming a tower on my property needs some kind of permit before it can be installed, who would I need to go to for that? Thanks.

What's the zip code for your "new" location? I can look up what's required (or not).

I also agree this is "key" for me; I wouldn't even buy a vacant lot without confirmation I can have a tower on it, first.:o

[K5AHH]

What's the zip code for your "new" location? I can look up what's required (or not).

I also agree this is "key" for me; I wouldn't even buy a vacant lot without confirmation I can have a tower on it, first.:o

--Thanks. The zip is 74728. When the area first started, there was an HOA, but no longer. I purchased the property over a year ago, but there was no HOA I had to sign, luckily. Since there is no longer an HOA, there shouldn't be a problem with a tower. There was a Ham that used to live in town (he moved in the country a while ago) and he put up a tower a few years ago that is still up to this day. Also, there is a CB'er (dead now) that put up a tower, and finally, there is another tower a guy put up at his home (propane company) so he could dispatch his trucks from there (or maybe a repeater was there, I dunno). While those three examples certainly don't mean I will be able to put up a tower with no problems, it at least shows that towers aren't completely frowned on in city limits. I don't foresee any problems with a potential tower, though...unless my next door neighbor complains, lol.

[K5AHH]

--Thanks for all the replies thus far. They will help for sure. This is the only place in the area we would want to move to, so regardless of whether or not a tower can be installed, it doesn't matter. It's considerably smaller (1 acre) than my current place (7½ acres), but if I can't put up a decent HF/VHF/UHF antenna array in the new 1 acre space, I have problems with my execution!

[K8MHZ]

I use the "Sockdrawer" method of grounding. When I am gone or when a storm is coming, I remove the antenna and power from my rig and put it in the sock drawer of my wardrobe/dresser. It is 100% effective. Ever hear of lightning striking a sock drawer? I also have an el cheapo hf rig on a battery and using an attic dipole. I can remain on the air if need be.

Your antenna fits in your sock drawer?

[KF5OYO]

Maybe a dumb or useless suggestion, but what about shielding the entire radio room? My first thought was using grounded screen stapled to the wall studs and stretched all the way around, before the sheetrock goes up. Good or bad idea?

[KB4QAA]

Your antenna fits in your sock drawer?

It has a small footprint! arrrrr

[WB2WIK]

I'd check municipal ordinance 10-229 for Broken Bow, OK: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=14679

Seems they require a permit; however I didn't see a definition of "structure;" possibly antenna towers are exempt, with a quick look I couldn't really tell.

Now, if you're building a home from scratch then you'd need a permit for that, anyway; and if so, you might be able to include a tower as part of the original plan, covered under the original permit. That would be great, as it would save a separate application and fee.

[WB2WIK]

Maybe a dumb or useless suggestion, but what about shielding the entire radio room? My first thought was using grounded screen stapled to the wall studs and stretched all the way around, before the sheetrock goes up. Good or bad idea?

I don't see how that could hurt anything except one's wallet. Completely unnecessary.

[KF5OYO]

I don't see how that could hurt anything except one's wallet. Completely unnecessary.

Okay, so "useless" would be appropriate..

[KB1NXE]

Maybe a dumb or useless suggestion, but what about shielding the entire radio room? My first thought was using grounded screen stapled to the wall studs and stretched all the way around, before the sheetrock goes up. Good or bad idea?

To what gain or reason? If you have a RF in the shack problem, then you need to fix it with a good RF ground. A screen around the room like that would present the possibility for many more issues, I would think. And with the antenna OUTSIDE the 'cage' doing what it's intended to do, all the shielding around the equipment won't mount to a hill of beans.

[KC7YRA]

To the ham who said 8x8 sheet of copper - YIKES! Rich guy!!!

I would instead opt for a ground ring.

Ground ring around the house with rods 16ft apart
Bond everything
Bond your ham ground to your service ground (NEC rule, and generally a good idea)
Use 00 wire
Bond top and bottom of tower
Grounding bus bar at the cable entry, everything grounded there with wires as short as possible

Last strike I had, I lost a TV preamp and the CI-V interface in my Icom ProIII. I didn't lose anything else.

Nah, 8'x8' sheet of 8 mil copper would only be $250-300. Compared to the cost of ground rods every 8-16 feet, heavy copper wire between rods, cad-welding, etc. I think they would about even out in the end.

Brad

[KF5OYO]

To what gain or reason? If you have a RF in the shack problem, then you need to fix it with a good RF ground. A screen around the room like that would present the possibility for many more issues, I would think. And with the antenna OUTSIDE the 'cage' doing what it's intended to do, all the shielding around the equipment won't mount to a hill of beans.

I'm new to the hobby, that's why I asked the question the way I did. Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions.

[K5AHH]

I'm new to the hobby, that's why I asked the question the way I did. Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions.

--No, not a dumb question. If nothing else, it's better to ask and be told it should not be done, rather than to do it and not ask, only to find out later, you wasted your time.

[KY5U]

Your antenna fits in your sock drawer?
No, I keep it in the closet with the Viagra.

[KJ4VTH]

I like WA4BRL Steve's plan except for the third door. I mean you have kitchen and bathroom.
What else do you need? :)

[WB2WIK]

I'd never "plan" to put a hamshack on a second or third floor unless there was absolutely no way to prevent that.

First floor or basement is a lot more logical, closer to "earth" and "grounding," and allows all outdoor lines to be brought in at ground level, where they can all be grounded on the way in.

I do agree that it's great, if possible, to create an "operating console" that is away from the wall so you can walk behind it to make connects/disconnects/rearrangements easily. That is a huge plus, and one I've followed for a very long time.

I'd also wire up two 240V 15A circuits into any hamshack. It's just wire and circuit breakers, and is very inexpensive to do this during construction. To do it "later" is a lot more expensive.

I used to think that wiring the house for 1000bT was a good idea, but nowadays with wireless routers working as well as they do and being so cheap, maybe not. Wireless 10 Gig is prety much "here" and works fine. We don't know what the future holds but I suspect all this will be wireless and work fine, even if we go to 40 Gig and beyond.

I'm using a wireless router right now and confirmed on "Ping" I'm actually connected at over 2Mbps up and down. For text, nothing better would ever be required. For video, maybe.

[KB1NXE]

Go to www.georgiacopper.com (http://www.georgiacopper.com) and look in their 'clearance' section. They offer copper strap, wire and plates for reasonable prices. The guy who works there is a Ham. Good stuff! And who cares if it has stains if you're going to bury it in the ground!

I have made several purchases from them, and have ALWAYS been pleased!

Wireless 10G -- Can you provide me with a manufacturer of wireless 10G? I work in the industry and know of no standard supporting wireless 10Gig connections. Please, educate me Steve! Since I am only familiar with 10Gigabit via fiber optic or Infiniband Copper connections, I need to learn about this 10 Gigabits over Wireless.

[N5PVL]

A lot of hams buy a small shed or travel-trailer to park out in the back yard.

I've never had any luck in getting my family to move out there, though.

[WB2WIK]

Wireless 10G -- Can you provide me with a manufacturer of wireless 10G? I work in the industry and know of no standard supporting wireless 10Gig connections. Please, educate me Steve! Since I am only familiar with 10Gigabit via fiber optic or Infiniband Copper connections, I need to learn about this 10 Gigabits over Wireless.

WiGig V2.0 is 10Gb/s wireless standard in draft with that SIG. WiGig V1.1 (802.11ad) is already released and hardware is in circulation from Wilocity, with Beta products in circulation from Broadcom and Cicsco (these are 802.11ac so far, but 802.11ad is coming soon). The Wilocity 60 GHz products are already operating at ~7Gb/s. So "here" is reality, although not in common circulation with the masses yet.

I'd expect them to be by the end of 2013, maybe sooner. The 802.11ac stuff supporting 4.5Gb/s duplex mode is already in use here at our company, who is a Beta site for Wilocity. Probably helps that our CEO is Israeli and an investor.:o

[AC0H]

What's this new fangled "wireless" stuff.....

I wonder if the old time telegraphers said the same thing.

When I get to build my new house it will be networked with Fiber.
I know it, I trust it, I actually like terminating it better than Cat5/6 and RJ-45's

[K6CPO]

The one thing I would do is get someone else to drive the ground rods...

[KB1NXE]

WiGig V2.0 is 10Gb/s wireless standard in draft with that SIG. WiGig V1.1 (802.11ad) is already released and hardware is in circulation from Wilocity, with Beta products in circulation from Broadcom and Cicsco (these are 802.11ac so far, but 802.11ad is coming soon). The Wilocity 60 GHz products are already operating at ~7Gb/s. So "here" is reality, although not in common circulation with the masses yet.

I'd expect them to be by the end of 2013, maybe sooner. The 802.11ac stuff supporting 4.5Gb/s duplex mode is already in use here at our company, who is a Beta site for Wilocity. Probably helps that our CEO is Israeli and an investor.:o

.11ac is theroretical sub 7 Gbps using MIMO technology. It restricts the numbers of users that can simultaneously use the technology. It is also VERY susceptible to interference as it uses multiple channels and bonds them to increase throughput.

.11ad will use the 60GHz band, but there is VERY LITTLE and only VERY EXPENSIVE equipment for sale.

I wouldn't put either in a Ham Shack. Neither are ratified or rated to have true 10Gbps throughput.

[KD0CAC]

I dream about building new with many of the things I've learned over the yrs. - mostly alternative building energy etc.
Still a new-be to ham , about 5 yrs. , so 85% of your electric usage , goes where it should , running ham gear :)
Building new , start with geo-thermal [ passive ] .

[WB2WIK]

.11ad will use the 60GHz band, but there is VERY LITTLE and only VERY EXPENSIVE equipment for sale.

I wouldn't put either in a Ham Shack. Neither are ratified or rated to have true 10Gbps throughput.

But, they will; actually V2.0 is drafted and in committee (10Gbps). We can run uncompressed 1080p video at 30fps right now using the .11ad Beta stuff, and have been doing that. Trying for 60fps, and getting there.

It's interesting to see how such things as nails in the walls cause reflections at this frequency, but we're running about sixty feet point-to-point now with existing hardware without "much" difficulty. The to-be-released Broadcom stuff, which they claim will be on the market in Q4, is pretty cheap. To aim ultimately at the prosumer market, it will have to be!

Exciting times.

[WA4BRL]

Get a copy of "Setting Up & Using Your Own Ham Shack" by L. B. Cebik. Chapters in the book give specific details on operating desk design and test bench design too. There's so much useable info (308 pages) you won't want to be without it when setting up your custom shack. As far as I know this book is out of print, but copies are currently available (today!) from used bookstores linked through AbeBooks.com and Amazon.com.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-9PXEXe%2BL._SL500_.jpg


L.B. Cebik W4RNL (SK) died in April of 2008. He was a regular participant in the forums here at QRZ.com. He spent years researching and experimenting with antennas, confirming or dispelling popular mythology surrounding many designs. His highly informative website (www.cebik.com (http://www.cebik.com)) is maintained for our use by Antennex.com.