University of Central Florida ARC Eviction Part 3 [Archive]

n0ov

12-17-2003, 09:51 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 16 2003,13:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-------------------------Towers--------------------

We hams must face the future and see what non-hams think of our new hobby. Yes, I finally will admit ham radio is definately a hobby and not as it was intended to be, a footstep into the engineering department.

There is very little to be gained as a engineering apect in todays hobby, therefore I agree with the removal of towers from college buildings.

With the FCC, ARRL and many other magazine companies calling Amateur Radio a hobby along with the actions on QRZ.COM I find no fault in the removal of towers.

You wanted a hobby? Well now you have it.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # .:[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your observation (unfortunately) is accurate.

Most folks give you a stare if you say you're an Amateur Radio operator and can't tell the difference between ham equipment and a CB #-- to them it's just someone playing with a radio.

This makes it tough to recruit new folks, hard to sell first responders on what we can/or have the capability of doing, or keep the right to install antennas and operate.

Best thing we can do is to enjoy the hobby, do our best to demonstrate what we can do to those who are interested and be professional (both in mannerisms and appearance)

War is not won at once -- many battles must take place before success is achieved.

Each time we spot a storm, render assistance, or assist in an emergency -- when requested, we build points. #(We loose points each time we point fingers or get pushy with first responders)

Lets, go forth -- do good -- have fun and make some contacts! #Take the time to share new modes with folks -- if it takes APRS or SSTV to get their interest they will be hooked the first time they talk to Europe on twenty dollars worth of wire in a tree. Who knows -- they may become interested in Spread Spectrum technology and make the jump into one of the engineering disciplines -- perhaps to support CDMA Wireless Service

We can only open the door -- they have to walk through and take the first step

Good post -- 73

aa1mn

12-17-2003, 09:53 PM

[B]W6TH,

When was amateur radio ever intended to be a "footstep into the engineering department"?

If this be so, what are degrees in electrical engineering for?

Is that like saying learning to read is a "footstep into being an author of classic literature"?

Chuck, AA1MN

n0ov

12-17-2003, 09:55 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa1mn @ Dec. 16 2003,15:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[B]W6TH,

When was amateur radio ever intended to be a "footstep into the engineering department"?

If this be so, what are degrees in electrical engineering for?

Is that like saying learning to read is a "footstep into being an author of classic literature"?

Chuck, AA1MN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
20 -30 years ago. This hobby was on the cutting edge and opened some doors.

w6th

12-17-2003, 10:12 PM

------------------------Chuck, AA1MN---------------

Charles, evidently you do not know much as to the history of Amateur Radio. This is why you will remain the idiot that you are.

Go take a look at a QST and then ARRL handbooks back in the years of 1937 through 1940.

Get smart in place of being a idiot. Teach yourself to learn.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #W6TH # Vito

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

n4tia

12-17-2003, 10:24 PM

I just took UCF off my college list. Its a shame that people are so ignorant! I am the president of the Springstead High School Amateur Radio Club KG4VJS and my club is in the process of putting up a 75 foot tower on the schools property and the administration is behind us 100%, they encouraged us to get and put up a tower, when lightning safety was brought up we were told to do what we can to prevent a lightning strike and that would be that. I do feel sorry for the UCF radio club but I am happy to hear that they will remain a club! On behalf of myself and the Springstead High School Amateur Radio Club we would like to whish the UCF radio club the best of luck and 73!
Alexander KG4OGN
President/Founder
SHSARC ~ KG4VJS

w6th

12-17-2003, 10:34 PM

------------------------AA1MN---------------------------
Charles says:
Is that like saying learning to read is a "footstep into being an author of classic literature"?

# # # # # # # # # Sure does Charles and more.

Oh you have so much to learn Charles.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

w6em

12-18-2003, 12:04 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 17 2003,15:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">W6TH, #Vito, said:

Oh you have so much to learn Charles.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Vito: #Your demeanor, and your punctuation are quite revealing. #And your calling another commenter an 'idiot' begs a glance in the mirror.

The dedicated students, faculty and staff of UCF didn't deserve your comments considering what they have fought long and hard to keep on behalf of the university community and Central Florida.

Amateur radio still offers many opportunities for those young people interested in experimentation with electronics and specifically radio. #And, as such, still offers a means to acquaint young people with the 'tools of the trade' long before a first electronics or electrical engineering lecture or laboratory.

For a university president to place his personal cosmetic or aesthetic preferences above something which provided added educational, community welfare and safety attributes to his school is beyond reasonable understanding. #And, perhaps even Florida State Law. (see earlier posts).

Florida's education system has been terribly strapped for funding. #Cuts were made this year, since funding sources were less than in previous years. #So, in spite of critical funding shortfalls, how did the president of UCF justify spending $6000 to remove part of the amateur club equipment?

I'm supposed to know why, thanks to many pointed letters. #On November 25, #Dr. Debra Austin, Chancellor of the State Board of Education, directed Dr. Hitt, the UCF President, to provide me a "full and clear written explanation" of the institution's decision. #I have yet to receive any communication from Dr. Hitt or his staff.

If I ever hear from Hitt or his staff, I will post the content on this thread. #But, I doubt that will happen, since there really hasn't yet been any reasonable justification, technical or otherwise, given to the students, faculty and staff for the actions of the UCF administration in the shut down of the UCF ARC station.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL (100 miles away)

w6th

12-18-2003, 12:34 AM

-----------------------Lee------------------------------
W6EM
Bradenton, FL (100 miles away).

Many many thanks for your opinion Lee. Your knowledge has been very helpful, much appreciated.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # W6TH #Vito

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

K4VU

12-18-2003, 02:23 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa1mn @ Dec. 17 2003,14:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is that like saying learning to read is a "footstep into being an author of classic literature"?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...ever heard of an author that didn't learn to read first? seems that it would make things a bit easier.

ham radio was my first step into engineering. if it didn't give me some direction, i would have probably ended up in something insane like med school -- or even worse: a CPA! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

bummer to hear about the antennas coming down. just hope the EE department at my alma mater (auburn) doesn't make a grab for the space on the roof of its building.

w6em

12-18-2003, 02:42 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K4VU @ Dec. 17 2003,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa1mn @ Dec. 17 2003,14:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is that like saying learning to read is a "footstep into being an author of classic literature"?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...ever heard of an author that didn't learn to read first? #seems that it would make things a bit easier.

ham radio was my first step into engineering. #if it didn't give me some direction, i would have probably ended up in something insane like med school -- or even worse: #a CPA! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

bummer to hear about the antennas coming down. #just hope the EE department at my alma mater (auburn) doesn't make a grab for the space on the roof of its building.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ditto for me too. #And for at least a half dozen other "old" EE buddies as well. #Even if I ended up in power.

My son attends the University of Arkansas and most of the student members of their club are EE undergrads, although my son decided on geology. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

k1lwi

12-18-2003, 05:27 AM

this is the end ham radio going down hill fast #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 01:12 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...ever heard of an author that didn't learn to read first? seems that it would make things a bit easier.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Point well taken, yes, it would make things "easier" but, to clarify my statement being literate don not NECESSARILY mean one will or can become an author of great poetry or prose.

As stated in my first post, being a licensed amateur was never a PREREQUISTE for being an accomplished engineer. Though, at one point in time, it certainly would have aided a person in learning the basics of the electronics field ... an excellent stepping stone.

Today, however, all things electronic are relatively cheap and off the shelf which tends to detract from modern amateurs having to learn to build their own equipment.

I wish to take a moment and express my sympathy for the club loosing their antenna site and hope them the best in future endeavors.

Also, thanks to KA4VU and V6EM for their comments and allowing me an opportunity to reply ... W6TH, you would do well to follow their example by expressing views with out leveling to insults.

73s

Chuck, AA1MN

K4VU

12-18-2003, 02:18 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa1mn @ Dec. 18 2003,06:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...ever heard of an author that didn't learn to read first? #seems that it would make things a bit easier.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Point well taken, yes, it would make things "easier" but, to clarify my statement being literate don not NECESSARILY mean one will or can become an author of great poetry or prose.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...i knew what you were getting after -- i just wanted to have a little fun with you. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif seems that it can get a little too serious around here sometimes.

73 & happy holidays
robin/k4vu
mediocre comics, local 420

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 02:35 PM

K4VU,

Thanks.

Happy holidays to you. And to the others here at QRZ.com too.

Chuck, AA1MN

k8nqc

12-18-2003, 03:19 PM

Everything changes and that change is not always good. Up until the past few decades Amateur Radio was in the mainstream of science and engineering. Innovative people could make science work in simple ways. ( The Wright Brothers even made a simple airplane fly!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Radio tinkerers were able to communicate using simple materials. Getting all the observations into a teachable theory certainly produced a body of learning that was foundation material for many advances. Mastering this knowledge was the challenge of the day and that kept our hobby energized. Yes, we old hams did communicate but the content of our communications was usually secondary to the process of communications.

Today, we have become mostly appliance operators. We sit around in groups and spout our daily babblings into the ether usually taking our content much more seriously than it merits. We still have a handful of people in the hobby performing useful science. but their number is few.

The last attempt to upgrade the skills of the amateur was in 1968 when most amateurs had to hit the books to keep their operating priviledges. #Since then the effort to maintain our numbers for political and commercial viability has only lowered our standards. We should have learned from the social welfare experiments that giving away value without expecting effort and work to gain improving results would lead to decay.

Let's try to enjoy what we have left.

73, Bill

w6th

12-18-2003, 05:15 PM

------------------------k8nqc--------------------------

Very well written Bill.

With the Amateur Radio tests to acquire a license and so simple of a test requirement involving no knowledge of electronics, then why should a college keep the towers.

When the electronic theory goes, so should the towers and should not be used just for enjoyment where it does not aid for the college engineering degree diploma.

How many hams of today could actually pass the FCC exams for a Radio Operators license in the prewar years?

Good question, is it not?

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # 73, #W6TH

P.S. How many hams of today have a degree in electronics?
# # # # # # # # #Or even a high school diploma?

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

wm3o

12-18-2003, 05:21 PM

it is unclear if the club has secured a new location on the campus. i have read the timeline and it does not state if this is the case.

all to often, those at the top only learn from experience.
i surely hope the school never has to deal with a disaster and realize that the services of the club could have helped save lives.

-steve

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 05:30 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good question, is it not?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No, it is not.

Do you not realize that this is not "the prewar years"? Shall I expect another insulting reply?

Chuck, AA1MN

w6th

12-18-2003, 05:39 PM

-------------------------AA1MN--------------------

Shall I expect another insulting reply?

Yes Charles, just carrying on from our previous posts.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #73, Vito

P.S. Does this mean that your 2 college degrees are no longer valid?

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 05:44 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does this mean that your 2 college degrees are no longer valid?

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Why do you ask such a question when this was not brought up nor is it in reference to this post? Is there something about having an education, or lack there of, that rankles you?

AA1MN

w6th

12-18-2003, 06:00 PM

-----------------------Charles AA1MN--------------------

No Charles I have my degree in engineering and does not bother me in the least. You have never mentioned what your major was in your 2 or 3 degrees you have mentioned

You have bypassed the real issue here on the tower situation and turned to your old ways of what is seen in your past posts.

A question for you: Should the towers be kept up or taken down?
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # .:

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 06:18 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A question for you: Should the towers be kept up or taken down?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I didn't realize the decision was mine to make or did I miss something here?

Sorry that they are coming down and would like to see the entire matter taken out of the hands of the school altogether by having the towers erected on one of the members private property if possible so that the club will have complete say over it, thus not having to depend on the "generosity" of a third party.

Since you asked, I hold an AA in communications and a BA in literature since you were kind enough to show interest as well as share the degree with us that you hold.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You have bypassed the real issue here on the tower situation and turned to your old ways of what is seen in your past posts.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

A last question for you, since I have taken the time and consideration to address yours, what "old ways" of mine to you refer?

Chuck, AA1MN

W4AMW

12-18-2003, 06:39 PM

I have learned after over 40 years (I know that's not long compared to some) of being a ham that too many hams always can be counted on for one thing: calling each other names and bad mouthing one another so that there is no need for anyone else outside the fold to do it to us.
Our motto in the Commonwealth of Kentucky is "United We Stand, Divided We Fall." Learn from it, especially that "fall" part.
W4AMW

w6th

12-18-2003, 06:43 PM

-----------------------Charles AA1MN----------------

A last question for you, since I have taken the time and consideration to address yours, what "old ways" of mine to you refer?

First off Charles, I finally have from you your AA in communications and the BA. Marvelous. I will never forget this and keep it bookmarked.

Now for the "old ways". Always picking a certain subject to cause an augument or to challenge as to a fool. #I am going back to the many other posts that you have made augumentation and not this present post.

There you have it my friend. Knowing we both passed our college English and our Mathematics. You are a friend and a scholar, your kindness will always be forgotten.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 07:01 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will never forget this and keep it bookmarked.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Huh? Why or for what reason are you going to keep it bookmarked? Am I missing something here?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Always picking a certain subject to cause an augment or to challenge as to a fool. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Have I ever refered to you, or anyone on any of these posts as a fool? Weren't you the one who called me an "idiot" earlier?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are a friend and a scholar, your kindness will always be forgotten.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Why would you, or anyone for that matter, forget a kindness done you? I would like to think that some of the lessons learned during life would involve kindess or don't you have any to spare?

Though I may have opposing opinions on things I hope that I have, at the very least, maintained a modecom of kindness for those with whom I may disagree ... in the one or two instances I haven't I've been quick to make my apologies.

Then again, W6TH, maybe some of us have learned more from life than others.

May the club antennas find a safe and happy new place of residents in the days, weeks, months and years ahead.

Chuck, AA1MN

K4VU

12-18-2003, 07:19 PM

okay my chillen', play nice or grandma is gonna take your tinker toys away.

aa1mn

12-18-2003, 07:30 PM

Okay, K4VU, I promise to be a gooood boy now. Do I get a cookie?

Chuck, AA1MN http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

K4VU

12-18-2003, 07:33 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aa1mn @ Dec. 18 2003,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay, K4VU, I promise to be a gooood boy now. #Do I get a cookie?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
grandma's got a nice batch of fresh chocolate chip baking in the oven right now.

w6th

12-18-2003, 07:34 PM

----------------------Charles AA1MN-------------------

Yes Charles, I do not deny the fact that I called you a idiot. I did so as to gain your attention and see what the results were. The meaning of idiot is : An unlearned, ignorant, or simple person, as distinguished from the educated; an ignoramus. Not that you are crazy or such or have a mental disorder #I did this to get your attention and I have. #You still insist on trying to succeed to make a fool of people. Your sweet wording on all of your present posts Charles. You thrive on QRZ.COM. Take your nap now and rest as you had your fun and probably run down and rapidly growing old.

I enjoyed this and found it more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

I believe if I met you in person that I would like you and enjoy your company. I know you would like me. Easy going chap.

# # # # # # #73 Charles and happy Holidays to you and yours.
# # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # # W6TH Rosamond, CA. 93560

# # # # # # # # # # # # # God Bless America
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #In God We Trust.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # .:

w6em

12-18-2003, 10:39 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb3kaq @ Dec. 18 2003,10:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i surely hope the school never has to deal with a disaster and realize that the services of the club could have helped save lives.

-steve[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In Florida, its only a matter of time. #But, unless someone points out (to the media) how the outcome might have been different had the equipment still remained in-place, nothing will be remembered.

Sadly, people like the 'Hitt Squad' from UCF won't be held accountable unless the media presents the case to the court of public opinion.

Then, too often, under the guise of academic freedom or hastily created, baseless excuses, public institutions like UCF get their cases dismissed.......

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL

w6th

12-18-2003, 11:55 PM

-------------------------Lee W6em------------------

Hello Lee, I lived in Orlando, Fla., for many years and worked for Glen L. Martin company on Sand Lake road if I remember.

Not to argue on this tower point of view, but just what value is having a radio tower and radio ham shack in a college. Not using safety for a reason, what other purpose and means could be of value? Give me a reason and I may change my opinion.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 12:46 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 18 2003,19:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-------------------------Lee W6em------------------

Hello Lee, I lived in Orlando, Fla., for many years and worked for Glen L. Martin company on Sand Lake road if I remember.

Not to argue on this tower point of view, but just what value is having a radio tower and radio ham shack in a college. Not using safety for a reason, what other purpose and means could be of value? Give me a reason and I may change my opinion.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In this particular situation it was useful because the building the shack was in would stand up to a direct hurricane hit, had emergency power, and is one of the places the university uses to evaculate students who live in the dorms and have nowhere else to go. #Due to at least these facts, UCFARC's station has been a part of Orange County's emergency communications plan for many years. #For the last 7 years, UCFARC had even been included in UCF's plan for emergency communications in event of a disaster.

What makes the situation pathetic is with all the smoke and mirrors used to try and claim UCFARC's equipment had been installed improperly or without permission, was in volation of building codes, or had attracted lightning to strike the building it was on, the only reason which has not been disputed for why the eviction and tower removal happened is that President Hitt didn't like seeing them from his office. #He has proven many times during his reign he is willing to waste resources to please his aesthetic wants. #Can list a few if anyone is interested--they probably haven't been reported to the tax paying public. #I'm sure the ones I know about are only a drop in the bucket.

Now he is moving on to get his name in lights by diverting money which could be going to fund classes into changing UCF's sports division and leveling wetlands so he can put in a golf course on campus.

I guess that 46% raise has really gone to his head. # Hey, it's good to be the king.

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 01:02 AM

w6th

12-19-2003, 01:50 AM

------------------------KC4NUS-------------------

In this particular situation it was useful because the building the shack was in would stand up to a direct hurricane hit, had emergency power, and is one of the places the university uses to evaculate students who live in the dorms and have nowhere else to go.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #--------

There is no doubt you have mentiond a very good support for the erection of an antenna sight. Much more information will be needed to convince many that this buildings use as a emergency is an absolute necessity.

Here is a answer that will go against your wants: There are pros like the police, state police, fire depts and etc., that have equal buildings to safety and will keep all concerned of the future of the storm to evacuate the premises. There are also the top notch pros of the military. The UCF must or should have security around the campus and if so can also be a deciding factor as to the #wants.

The 9/11/01 in New York has proved what the pros can and will do. It is and has been recorded as the greatest in history.

Should plans for a non-nonsense ham shack in the UCF building then I see no harm in having a all band antenna on the roof, just for emergency use and none other. Also a place or location where Mr. Hitt will not observe.

This is a tough decision I know and wish all concernd the best of luck.

P.S. I wonder if this is the Mr. Hitt that was in the same outfit I was in in Burma? He was a teacher with a master or phd degree.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

w6em

12-19-2003, 01:53 AM

Vito: #I'm not sure I could add much to what has been said so far.

Perhaps, as a ham, you haven't experienced a natural disaster up close and personal. #Rosamond, as I recall, is in the eastern part of Kern County, in the Mojave Desert, and a long ways from the San Andreas Fault.

Back in December, 1989, I had the fortune to be responsible for a good amount of Pacific Gas and Electric's system, including the Santa Clara (Silicon) Valley. #For over two hours after the quake, my cellular phone couldn't be used. #Were it not for my simplex VHF company radio and our privately operated, microwave and fiber optic telephone system, we would not have been able to control or operate our utility systems. #And, yes, the public health and safety would have been more adversely affected without our own system. #Cellular, like landline systems, is designed to handle only a small fraction of the total number of potential users.

So, in a disaster, chaos reigns, and public phone systems are useless since everyone goes 'off hook' at once and continues for hours on end.

Maybe in Rosamond, you can walk to the Kern County Fire Department and tell them what you need for assistance, but not in LA or the SF Bay Area. #Nor in Orange County FL.

Unlike CA, high elevation antenna locations for repeaters are hard to come by. #The location on the campus of UCF provided not only firm power, but an excellent location to contact eastern Orange County as was pointed out.

Lets just say that part of the Florida Department of Education's expectations, as codified into Florida State Law, ask that students develop a sense of community as part of their education. #So, you tell me, Vito. #Does removal of something which links students with the surrounding community help fulfill that mandate?

w6em

12-19-2003, 02:05 AM

Vito: #NO. #9-11-01 was not a success for cellular. #It was a miserable failure. #Go check your sources.

In fact, government users were attempting to lobby for a special feature to 'dump' all public users, so they could use their phones immediately following a major disaster.

Cellular is a system to avoid for dependable disaster communications.

And, no, the military can't move fast enough. #Mobile, satellite-based comm centers can't be there for hours, so guess again.

There is NO substitute for simplex or repeater based systems with firm (emergency generator) power.

Public safety agencies have been sold a 'bill of goods' and in large part converted to trunking systems. #Like cellular, they depend upon dispersed, low level cites. #If a couple of those go down, they may be able to talk car to car, but have you tried 900 MHz, mobile to mobile? #Good luck, unless you can see the other station.
And with every municipal service using the same trunking network, as in our county here, well, sure it's nice to be able to have the dog catcher talk to the fire dispatcher by punching a button, but who can talk if a trunker site or two go down?

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 02:16 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 18 2003,21:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is a answer that will go against your wants: There are pros like the police, state police, fire depts and etc., that have equal buildings to safety and will keep all concerned of the future of the storm to evacuate the premises. There are also the top notch pros of the military. The UCF must or should have security around the campus and if so can also be a deciding factor as to the #wants.

The 9/11/01 in New York has proved what the pros can and will do. It is and has been recorded as the greatest in history.

P.S. I wonder if this is the Mr. Hitt that was in the same outfit I was in in Burma? He was a teacher with a master or phd degree.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, there are pros which are trained to police our streets, fight fires, provide medical assistance, and fight our countries wars. #These pros realize they are greatly hampered if they do not have reliable communications. #This is why it is a common practice for public safety and OEM departments to have affilations in place with local ham organizations via ARES/RACES for times of extreme need during natural and man-made disasters.

Has it been so long since Part 97 has been read that we have forgotten that in the Statement of Basis and Purpose, emergency communications is the first item listed. #By accepting the license we are accepting a duty just as the pros do who swear their oaths to God and country.

I do not know Dr. Hitt's resume off hand. #Just that he has been at UCF a little over 10 years and there is a damage trail to show for it.

w6th

12-19-2003, 02:59 AM

---Lee I don't approve of what mr. Hitt is doing and agree that there should be some way and/or means to protect the innocent and unfortunate.

I myself am in favor of the installation of a emergency setup at UCF and even in each and every home. There should be at every location some means to protect life.

Amateur Radio is very dependable I can assure you, but there must be a way to convince Mr. Hitt, don't wait till it happens. If he is bull headed then there is a problem to convince him. Could get help from other colleges to do some letter writing and then see what developes.

How about his associates or as one says the media. #I am sure the media would be interested. Remember a squeaky door gets oil. So pour it on.

The San Andreas Fault runs through our land here and we get the quakes but no buildings where I am located and no neighbors for over 1 mile. We get shook, rock and roll, but I am not leaving as I am waiting for the big one. Wind at 80 to 90 mph, but my 65 foot tower stays #for the past 20 years.

If Mr. Hitt first name is Walter, I could be of some help to convince him as we were very good friends.

I can say don't give up and don't give up hope I will venture to say UCF will get its wish.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 03:04 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 18 2003,22:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Mr. Hitt first name is Walter, I could be of some help to convince him as we were very good friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He is Dr. John Hitt. #http://www.ucf.edu/president

w6th

12-19-2003, 03:28 AM

------------------------------------------------------
I will try Dr. Hitt and Hope for a reply.
===============================

Your response has been sent to the President

Live today, tomorrow will take care of it's self.

Need more of this Lee. #Have others give a try. #Bug him.

.:

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 03:02 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 18 2003,22:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How about his associates or as one says the media. #I am sure the media would be interested. Remember a squeaky door gets oil. So poor it on.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Unfortunately, even though the local mass media has been fully informed about the situation, none have appeared to do any of their own investigation in pursuit of a story. #The only media to do a story was one of the student run papers, and they were more interested in trashing the UCF President then addressing Amateur Radio and UCFARC's positive effects for the students and the surrounding community.

w6th

12-19-2003, 04:50 PM

--------------------Mike -- KC4NUS----------------

Then again Mike, Amateur Radio is not Amateur Radio any longer. As a matter of fact I have given up defending Amateur Radio as it is no longer Amateur Radio.

Should you say it will be for contesting you may have a better chance for the tower.

73, W6TH

.:

kc4nus

12-19-2003, 05:15 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 19 2003,11:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Should you say it will be for contesting you may have a better chance for the tower.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
True. #Maybe if I can convince UCF that amateur radio contesting is a sport and we can get a piece of the millions that is being spend to change our sports division. #From some of the emails of support I've gotten over the last few months, parents do consider amateur radio presence when working with their kids selecting a college to attend.

w2kg

12-20-2003, 07:46 PM

I can't add much to the debate(?) here, except to say that I am very grateful to Amateur Radio and the many elmers who have put up with me over the years. #It is from Amateur Radio that I entered the ranks of the communications profession and through the good offices of my brother and sister hams that I found employment many years ago. #Call it a "hobby" or whatever you want, I call it "home". # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kc0oom

12-21-2003, 02:34 AM

It is rare that I comment on these threads, but here it goes anyway. I have been in amateur radio for only a year. I have been in emergency medical services for over 17 years until an injury forced me into retirement. I can tell you that most “Professional Services” Fire, EMS, Police and other authorities do not have long-range RF communication capabilities. If it is not a trunked system, is virtually impossible for them to communicate beyond line of site. I live in Kansas where storm spotting is done by the amateur radio operators. We are the only ones with the system, equipment, and experience to perform this task.

Let us also not forget the space shuttle disaster. The only communication equipment that had the required coverage and flexibility was provided by the “amateurs”. I can guarantee you if this club was providing meals for the homeless, free tutoring for children, or any other service they would not have been shut down. Because the service they provided involved a technology that was not photogenic or politically correct they were expendable.

Emergency coverage is a precious thing, the less you have the weaker it gets. If it gets too weak it dies and becomes useless, then people start to die.

Just my thoughts,

Richard Percifield
kc0oom

kc2tr

12-21-2003, 05:09 AM

OK-taking down the antennas was a terrible mistake. Seeing that we are getting into emergency communications during disasters, I experienced the "great Northeastern" Ice Storm some years back..Telephone poles/wires were down across the streets, power lines dangling all over the place, trees going thru peoples roofs, no electricity, homes were COLD, no telephone, cell towers failed, The police forbade any drivers anywhere, there even was a water advisory, the Monster AM radio station (50,000 watts) WHAM-Rochester NY., was reduced to 2000 watts on back-up generation. BUT, I had my little 50 watt 2 meter FM-12 volt battery powered rig. The repeaters went on emergency battery power, and we coincided with the police,fire & ambulance departments thru the County Red Cross HAM RADIO STATION at the County office bldg. I do know something about Florida, the hurricanes and alike, & I will tell you that removing that station was a HUGE mistake. Look what a little ICE did to us? If anything, just for emergency service-that station should of stayed put. Just think about it, you can have a fully functional emergency station in service from your CAR, but you must first have a central base station for operations. Has ham radio been reduced to a "hobby" status-YES. But no one can negatively argue against the benefit HR gives to the community in return when needed. I am sad this happened, but keep your shorts on folks, because this is only the beginning, we are not a politically correct group. The attacks have just begun, and we must fight back or lose everything. Just my 2 cents worth.Now I am going to be politically incorrect and wish everyone a MERRY CHRISTMAS..Ken

kc0jez

12-21-2003, 01:41 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Dec. 18 2003,10:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many hams of today could actually pass the FCC exams for a Radio Operators license in the prewar years?

Good question, is it not?

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # 73, #W6TH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Or..how many Hams who got their tickets in the 40's 50's, 60's or even 70's, could pass today's tests without study? There are a lot of long time hams out there who don't know a thing about RF exposure limits, digital modes, etc. Anything about surface mount technology in those 1981 exams? Didn't think so.
And why would a modern day ham need to know most of the information in the old exams? Just finding most of the tubes used in those old sets is almost impossible, needing to learn about them is not necessary.
However I would agree that that the electronics theory never changes (an ohm is still an ohm far as I know) and should be a basic part of the test and it still is..to some small extent.
I've always maintained that rather than having a code test there should be a practical building test. The applicant should be able to demonstrate soldering connectors on coax, and be given a bag of components, a 4x4 inch square of perf board, and a schematic and be required to assemble the circuit. Wouldn't even have to make anything real..just to show they can read a schematic and solder. Know the difference between a resistor and an RF choke. No matter what mode you operate, or what license class you are you're still going to need to hook up an antenna..and probably an SWR meter, watt meter, etc. It's amazing the number of hams who have asked me to solder them some coax jumpers for them. How many don't even have a soldering iron, or have a clue how to use one.

kc4nus

12-21-2003, 02:54 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0jez @ Dec. 21 2003,08:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've always maintained that rather than having a code test there should be a practical building test. The applicant should be able to demonstrate soldering connectors on coax, and be given a bag of components, a 4x4 inch square of perf board, and a schematic and be required to assemble the circuit. #Wouldn't even have to make anything real..just to show they can read a schematic and solder. Know the difference between a resistor and an RF choke. No matter what mode you operate, or what license class you are you're still going to need to hook up an antenna..and probably an SWR meter, watt meter, etc. #It's amazing the number of hams who have asked me to solder them some coax jumpers for them. How many don't even have a soldering iron, or have a clue how to use one.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
An interesting premiss. #One with which I'd have to say I agree. #Application of knowledge means much more than memorization to pass a paper exam.

Having a college Ham club is useful for providing the types of basic skills you mention. #At college, we are seeing the 'engineer minded' in their raw form. #They are getting new information and want to play with it to see how it works and see if what they have been told by their professors rings out true. #Students *love* trying to prove the professor wrong.

The majority of the gear UCFARC has these days is modern, nearly unservicable equipment. However, in recent memory, we have had members doing things like making quad antennas to use on their HTs, figuring out how to use the tower guy wires as an antenna, attempting repairs of our previous 2-meter repeater during its death throws, and the diehards are often building or reverse engineering whatever the circuit of the week is. #

They mostly just need a place to work. Somenthing UCFARC use to be able to provide.

KG4YJR

12-26-2003, 11:53 AM

I've read that they are affiliated with the ARRL. Where is and what has the ARRL done for them to help?

12-26-2003, 01:18 PM

Months ago, I wrote a letter to the university urging them to reconsider. It pointed out the explosion in the telecom industry and the need for RF trained engineers. I also mentioned that many other schools of higher learning are in fact renewing their interest in amateur radio especially with orbiting telecom devices. Stanford University comes to mind. I did not get a reply.

Jim Haynie, W5JBP
President, ARRL

kc4nus

12-26-2003, 11:05 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5jbp @ Dec. 26 2003,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Months ago, I wrote a letter to the university urging them to reconsider. It pointed out the explosion in the telecom industry and the need for RF trained engineers. I also mentioned that many other schools of higher learning are in fact renewing their interest in amateur radio especially with orbiting telecom devices. Stanford University comes to mind. I did not get a reply.

Jim Haynie, W5JBP
President, ARRL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I had heard Mr. Haynie had contacted UCF. This is the first time I've gotten confirmation.

I'm not surprized he didn't get an answer. Last I heard, President Hitt hadn't even bothered answering the inqueries made into the UCFARC situation by at least one UCF donor--Karl Geng (N1DL). Somewhere in July-August '03, the UCF administration stopped replying to all inqueries into the situation.

Earlier in the summer, when OEM representives of Orange County Florida make inquries, they were basically told "bugger off. UCF would do whatever it wanted." Unfortunately, the state heirarchy above President Hitt has shown no interest in even suggesting he reconsider.

w6em

12-27-2003, 12:26 AM

The University's story.......

December 23, 2003

Dear Mr. McVey

I am resonding to your concerns regarding the Amateur Radio Club at the University of Central Florida. #The Amateur Radio Club is a registered student organization and, as such, receives suport throught the Student Government Association (SGA). #The 28 student-member club requested $19,600 in SGA support for this fiscal year, but recevied only $5,555.

The Amateur Radio Club was required to vacate the space it occupied in the Mathematics and Physics Building following a long and well-documented list of violations of university rules and regulations, violations dating back to June 9, 2000. #As examples, club members apparently gained unauthorized access to a master key that they used to reach the roof of the building, where they were installing radio antennas. #They neither requested nor received the required university approvals or authorizations to install those antennas. #These unauthorized activities created safety concerns that placed both the individuals involved and the institution at risk. #Furthermore, the space occupied by the club did not comply with existing fire and housekeeping codes. #These failures to comply were cited on several occasions, and continued efforts to work with the club members to address the deficiencies failed. #Despite adequate notice and agreement to participate, the club president and advisor did not attend a scheduled meeting on March 10, 2003, a meeting specifically called to resolve existing problems. #Two days later the club advisor sent an e-mail message indicating that he had taken an antihistamine and slept through the meeting. #Simply put, the Amateur Radio Club members were not good stewards of the space they were allowed to occupy and, as a result, lost the privilege of using that space.

Regarding the assertion that improperly grounded antennas contributed to the loss of several computers in the building, I can only state that qualified physical plant personnel indicated that the improper grounding of those antennas may well have contributeed to damage sustained during a lightning strike. #I am told the antennnas should not have shared a common ground with the building's electrical system. #The fact remains that club members installed the antennas and grounding system without obtaining required authorizations or seeking the advice and oversight of appropriately trained and authorized university personnel.

Page 2.

Your letter addressed the value of the Amateur Radio Club to the Amateur Radio Emergency Sevice radio network. #I do not question your #opinion in this matter; however, you also suggest that the UCF Police Chief Richard Turkiewicz feels the contined existence of the Amateur Radio Club is important to public safety on our campus and the surrounding area. #I asked Chief Turkiewicz this very question and was told by him that this is not true. #Furthermore, when I offered Chief Turkiewicz the opportunity to relocate the Amateur Radio Club to space in his facility, he declined.

Since the club antennas were on university property and attached to a university building, we were well within our legal rights to remove them from the roof of the building. #I am told the equipment is now in storage and awaiting a new installation site and the funds required for installation. #In that regard, I met several weeks back with the advisor to the Amateur Radio Club in an attempt to find a safe and appropriate site for the club and its equipment. #As a part of that effort, I have also been working with university officials to assess the costs associated with this relocation. #The estimates, which total $40,350, would allow for the establishment of a safe and adequate physical facility and the proper installation of the antennas. #You and I are in complete agreement that it would be inappropriate to use public funds for this purpose, and I have so informed the club's advisor. #However, I have suggested other potential sources of support and offered to work with club members in seeking private support.

I regret that you remain dissatisfied with the steps taken by the Unviersity of Central Florida in this matter. #However, the actions taken were deemed necessary to protect the safety of club members, university personnel, and university buildings and equipment. #Good faith efforts were undertaken to work with club members, but those efforts failed due to the unwillingness of club members to correct long-standing problems and comply with university rules, regulations, and procedures. #In the end, we had no choice but to respond as we did.

Sincerely,

Terry L. Hickey, Ph.D.
Provost and Vice President.

cc: President John C. Hitt
cc: Chancellor Debra Austin

Note: #This deserves a response and I'd like to write one, but need help addressing his points......

Post here or email me at w6em@arrl.net

Lee

w6em

12-27-2003, 12:39 AM

UCF Addresses:

Dr. John C. Hitt
President
UCF
PO Box 160002
Orlando, FL 32816-0002

Dr. Terry L. Hickey
Provost and Vice President
PO Box 160065
Orlando, FL 32816-0065

Florida Department of Education

Dr. Debra Austin
Chancellor of State Universities
325 W. Gaines Street Suite 1602
Tallahassee, FL 32399-00400

Florida Board of Education (reponsible for post secondary education in FL, and to whom Ms. Austin reports)

F. Phillip Handy, Chairman
T. Willard Fair, Vice Chairman
Dr. Linda J. Eads
Julia L. Johnson
Dr. William L Proctor

325 W. Gaines Street Suite 1602
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0400
(850)245-0466

w6th

12-28-2003, 12:23 AM

-----------------------Tower---------------------------

I go along with Jim Haynie, W5JBP
President, ARRL .

My opinion is not to have a tower just for emergency reasons, but a tower for ham radio for the benefit of the education it will and can provide.

There was always a big demand for RF engineers as it is a very wide field, not only antennas, receivers and transmitters.

Lee and mike, there is enough here on this tower post to give you some idea of which to concentrate on and what and which direction to turn to.

I would go for the education factor.

# # # # # # # # # # # # Good Luck,

# # # # # # # # # # # # 73, W6th

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #.:

kc4nus

12-28-2003, 03:27 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6em @ Dec. 26 2003,19:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Note: #This deserves a response and I'd like to write one, but need help addressing his points......[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What I see mostly in the Provost's reply is the same dog and pony show we have been getting since this mess started when it was the College of Arts & Sciences leading the charge. #Most of his points have already been addressed/refuted in UCFARC's eviction web page.

The only part of what he writes which I can say the club has possible guilt, depending on what installations he means, would be changing out antennas on the towers and the occasional house cleaning issue. #The towers were installed under Dr. Bolte's watch, and I don't see him cutting corners considering the position he held with UCF. #House cleaning has been addressed any time the Fire Marshell voiced concern and anyone bothered to alert us of his concern.

When it comes to the roof doors being open, the only way we have ever had roof access was because Physical Plant personnel left the doors unlocked. #We documented a couple cases of this happenning in just the last couple months. #If they think we had a master key which let us on the roof, I'd like to see the report of the police investigation which should have been done considering such a key would have opened a majority of the doors on campus. #If only a master to the building, it would have given us access to millions of dollars of equipment used by the Physics department. #If they really thought students had access to such a key, I do not see them not attempting to recover it and discover how access was achieved.

Considering they have never produced the documentation/evidence they keep claiming exists, I would say call them on that. #Have them produce the documentation--every shread of it. #While they are at it, have them go through their records and find the A&I requests for the towers being installed in 1973 & 1989. #They are suppose to have all those records. #If there is anything they produce which was not part of the yearly report they send to Tallahassee and should have been, I say report that to the proper state authorities.

I am curious about the Provost's statment of what the UCFPD chief said considering I have a copy of the letter the Chief wrote to the VP of Administration & Finance and Dean of the College of Arts & Science stating UCFARC should be left in place unless a better location was going to be provided. #I guess I need to scan that letter and add it to the UCFARC website.

It seems the university administration figures they can keep up with the same lines since no one they report to is willling to hold them accountable. The media hasn't even called them on it which surprizes me considering this situation smells of corruption and pork barrel waste of taxpayer money by the administration. #Ontop of the 9% to 46% raises many admistrators got when the faculty and support staff only got 2%, I would think the investigative reporters would be on the university like a pack of hungry dogs. #

I guess we just haven't found what information motivates the mass media to take interested.

ab4kx

12-30-2003, 04:27 AM

It is most unfortunate the some members of the ham fraternity must lower themselves and thereby denigrate the hobby as a whole by name calling. #Why, for gosh sake would someone refer to a contributor as an "idiot" for taking a reasoned, articulate point of view?
Gentlemen, and ladies we do both ourselves and our hobby, or service a great diservice with such behavior and little force is lent to one's ideas thereby.

N9CXH

12-30-2003, 10:38 AM

Did you ever stop to think where the idea for cell phones came from? Another idea stolen from ham radio, with no credit given!
We were doing the same thing and theysaw they could make money at it.

w6th

12-30-2003, 03:41 PM

--------------------------ab4kx-------------------------

What would you do to a person on QRZ.COM who will harass, (Attack You Repeatedly) every time you get on QRZ.COM for a number of years? #

You have done exactly what you are complaining about. What makes you so different?

Do you see yourself as being different?

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # .:

kc4nus

12-31-2003, 01:08 PM

Another aspect of the UCFARC eviction to consider is how much was done by the university behind closed doors--even from UCFARC. #There were only two meetings on 'concerns' by the administration which UCFARC was asked to have a representative present. #One 11/7/02 where a time was worked out for me to meet with the CAS Interm Dean leading the charge. #The second on 3/10/03 when UCFARC was informed of the meeting time a couple days before but never queried if it would cause schedule conflicts for any of UCFARC's representatives. #From a sparsely documented timeline we were passed by a representative of Student Activites, we know there were many more meetings than just those two.

While UCF is a university, it is still a state funded public university and therefore, is subject to Florida's Sunshine Law. #If UCF is not cooperative in producing the evidence they claim to have, via the Sunshine law, the minutes and any other materials from meetings about UCFARC by the administration should be available by formal request.

If any of the actions the university carried out against UCFARC should have by law been done "in the Sunshine", there is the possiblity the administration members involved could face criminal charges.

k2lck

01-06-2004, 11:10 PM

Kinda sad, my 45+ years licensed tells me that TVI coulda been in the equation... but who knows, you seldom get the real reason fer sumpin like this. #Or it could have been something like a coed hearing profanity from the meeting room. #never know..sigh # , or the demeaner of the club president. or meybe one of the members told the dean "you can't do that".....egos # #.....never never know. Ed

ke4zhn

01-12-2004, 10:13 PM

Id be willing to hedge a guess that if the UCF amateur radio club had something to do with sports, they would still be there!! Sad that football has priority over just about everything on most college campuses across the country these days. Including learning! Since amateur radio isnt a "sport" then its no mystery that it was destined for the scrap heap because the university would much rather throw away thousands of dollars to watch a bunch of idiots with the IQ of a grapefruit chase a ball around rather then possibly launch numerous careers in electronics.

w7std

02-02-2004, 03:31 AM

With a 46% raise,does the President of UCF think he is God? Also with the $1million+ contract to the football coach,was he appointed Jesus by God? Fire them all!

kc4nus

02-02-2004, 02:50 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w7std @ Feb. 01 2004,22:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">With a 46% raise,does the President of UCF think he is God? Also with the $1million+ contract to the football coach,was he appointed Jesus by God? Fire them all![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The % raise was made possible by Governor Jeb. #By passing the university presidential pay rate decision to the university trustees groups he created, he was able to have large raises doled out to many of the 10 public university presidents without it looking like he was involved. #It became concealed in the political fog that he created the trustee group positions and helped choose whom to appoint as the trustees. #So, it appears it wasn't his decision to give the university presidents raises.

The only thing I see which would put even a speed bump in the money mismanagement happening at least at the university level, would be the majority of university students throwing off their standard cloak of apathy. #As long as the majority of customers the administration is suppose to be serving is not going to hold them accountable, what insensitive does the administration have to do anything beyond makes their stay in the Ivory Tower more comfortable.