why the LOCKED or MISSING topics ?

[ai4ep]

I have noticed in the last week, that there was a news item on qrz.com news page about " back ground checks ", and there were well over 200 posts on it, and now it is not even there to be read. Also, in the "opinions " forum ( like this area ), there is one referring to " tgif group " that is LOCKED and now one about "positive news from Iraq " that is now LOCKED. I do not dispute the reasons for the missing or locked tpoics, but why not totally eliminate all the posts under that topic; instead of leaving it for all of us to read and possibly want to contribute a word or two. To ask a simple question...why not totally take the title and all the posts out from even being read ? If that is done, then no one will want to add a comment to it and be unable, or am I in left field ( again ) ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif It is just a question, and I aint trying to get any one in trouble or ruffle any feathers or wake any sleeping dogs, or make the statue of liberty shake her fist or any thing; it is just something I ( and every one ) can see and some might want/need answers more than I do. GOD bless all of you. kd4amg

[KD7VKR]

Answers, dialougue, yes. That would be nice. Anti American propaganda, no. Noted you had nothing good to add to the thread about the good things being accomplished in Iraq, (urban myth or not). Only anti American stuff that I could decipher.

[ke4pjw]

Well, let's see...

The article posted by vk2bvs that was saying that vk2bvs could give out callsigns to foreigners visiting Somalia (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/so.html) disappeared because of nonsensical postings, both by vk2bvs and others.

The article about background checks was really a plot to sling mud in a dispute over a repeater.

The article about the email about the war is another mindless forwarding of something, someone heard, somewhere, about something. (Man do I hate 'mindless forwards'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

It's Fred's site. He can do as he wishes.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ok...good enough answers for me...no more questions...thank you !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif kd4amg

[K9STH]

I locked down the TGIF thread AND posted an explanation why. You must not have read the reasons why it was locked down. The other thread I haven't had anything to do with. I also moved two threads to the Q&A section since they were much more properly posted thereon.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[w8amd]

As admin of another board I can state that locking a thread without deleting anything gives the staff an place to point to if those who cause the locking continue their ways. #Delete it and proof is gone. #Deletion is a last resort to be used only in instances that demand it.

[KG4CGC]

Yes, I too am curious about the background check topic.

[ka8jhm]

VKR;
When you make reference to " just anti American stuff",
I hope you are not talking about those
who cannot condone us or anyone else atacking a sovereign nation without good reason, such as our invasion of Iraq.
As an born American citizen, and overseas wartime veteran, I do have the right to criticize and disagree with the decision to attack Iraq. On the other side of the coin, you do not have the right to call those of us who disagree " anti American".
Bob TBTM

[ki4bgo]

This last one started with some "SPAM" e-mail being posted unnecessarily! I had a feeling that "the lock http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif " was coming!

[KI4BOO]

I feel another locked topic coming on... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[wm7o]

I don't see how the fact that the basis for the thread was a propagandous piece of spam justifies locking the topic. Were there not still valid opinions expressed? Was there any event detailed or chronicled that has been proven to be falsely reported?

This is a PERFECT example of what I said in my somewhat tongue-in-cheek post on the Iraq thread. Politics and relgion are about what you BELIEVE. And that does not just apply to ideology or theology. It applies to what you believe about what you are told about world events and the people behind them. There are a great many things and influence what each of us believes in. I can only speak for myself when I say that once I have my mind made up, it takes a tremendous amount of proof for me to change it.

So, I guess my question would be about the reason for locking the Iraq thread. I don't really care whether it's there or not, but I didn't see anything in there that seemed too bad. I am mostly curious about the spam explanation. At the risk of sounding like I have not read the policies here recently, is that a standing policy regarding thread topics on QRZ?

73,
Kent

[kc7jty]

The thread was getting too hot. Better for them to drop it now than have the moderator wade through 500 agonizing posts.

There are 2 different types of people in the land: Those who are able to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions and those who can recite the party line verbatim. Guess which ones call the other "anti-american"?

[wm7o]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ Dec. 11 2003,15:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The thread was getting too hot. Better for them to drop it now than have the moderator wade through 500 agonizing posts.
#
#There are 2 different types of people in the land: Those who are able to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions and those who can recite the party line verbatim. Guess which ones call the other &quot;anti-american&quot;?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK, well, it looks as though the discussion is going to continue here. I don't think that I really want to get involved here, but I will repeat my earlier point: There IS a reason that politics and religion are avoided as topics in certain forums.

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KI4BOO @ Dec. 11 2003,14:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I feel another locked topic coming on... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Never mind FEEL...after those last 2 I KNOW it's coming on! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

I can not comment on other thread being moved or removed, I think Glen has explained those. #The thread on the “POSITIVE NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ABOUT IRAQ” was locked down by the QRZ Editors

This thread was LOCKED because the information posted was word for word from multiple Newsgroups Postings and a SPAM email campaign and was not verifiable from any US Agency or reputable press. #Many Internet users believe everything they read on the Internet and should take what they read with a grain of salt. #Even emails from trusted friends who received this email from a friend of a friend should be scrutinized.. #It also started what was looking like a debate that does not belong on the pages of QRZ, an Amateur Radio Site, and not a Political Viewpoint site

It was NOT removed for any political reasons. #It was removed because much of what was contained in the original post was propaganda… meaning can not be verified by any reputable source. #(In fact, the comment made about medical attention being better is because of the US Medical facilities and doctors in place in Iraq, not because of Iraqi doctors (Source, DOD facts about Iraq) )

QRZ let a lots of political and religious postings even though we are an Amateur Site. We realize that many Hams have opinions that range far beyond the scope of just Radio. #(Many Amateurs have gotten their tickets because the are missionaries and this is their means of communications.)

Contrary to what many have posted here and on other sites, QRZ is a firm believer in FREE SPEECH but please know what FREE SPEECH entails before you accuse us of infringing on your right of FREE SPEECH.

EDITOR QRZ

[K2ACX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ Dec. 11 2003,16:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are 2 different types of people in the land: Those who are able to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions and those who can recite the party line verbatim. Guess which ones call the other &quot;anti-american&quot;?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
THANK YOU! It's easy to listen to talk radio, cable news and blowhard bestsellers (I'm talking about both sides here, btw) and let them polarize and simplify everything into a black and white choice: 'it's either my view or his, and his is un-American.'

Well if as a voting citizen you truly believe it's your choice, you won't let any of these people make it for you!

Brian K2ACX

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2ACX @ Dec. 12 2003,07:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well if as a voting citizen you truly believe it's your choice, you won't let any of these people make it for you!

Brian K2ACX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm 53 years old and have never voted. Probably never will. I have argued with the best of them on this so I know all the angles.
About 30 years ago I was driving behind a very slow moving old Rambler (its a car) that had a hand made bumper sticker strapped on with wire. It read: &quot;Don't vote, it only encourages them.&quot; I was curious to see who was driving so I pulled alongside at a red light. It was an old man who looked like he was 100 years old. I'll never forget that day.

Anyone who can continuously vote for someone who will lie and BS them, while wearing a pleasant smile, has got to have something wrong with them.......but then again there are a lot of things Americana I don't understand.

To me when you vote you are saying I approve of American politics in its current form....go ahead....you have my blessing.
Bill

[AG3Y]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> To me when you vote you are saying I approve of American politics in its current form....go ahead....you have my blessing. Bill [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And when you DON't vote, you are saying, &quot; I approve of American politics in its current form &quot; too ! Because the incumbent in almost all cases remains in office unless he/she is voted OUT !

So it is a case ( if you believe in the negative viewpoint ) of &quot;you're D**ned if you do, and you're D**ned if you don't !

I'd rather have a voice in the running of my country ( whether I agree with the current situation, or not ) than to just leave it up to others to decide my fate !

73 from Jim AG3Y

[K9STH]

I am the election judge for Collin County Precinct 48 and I definitely believe that if you don't vote you don't have any reason to gripe about politics!

A few years ago an elderly lady was talking to me after she had voted. She said that her daughter said that if she didn't vote that she (the daughter) didn't want to hear any gripes about politics from her (the elderly lady). The lady told me that she was voting because she wanted to &quot;damn well gripe&quot;! Her &quot;I voted&quot; sticker was her license to gripe all that she wanted to!

Basically, if you don't vote then, in my opinion, you have accepted all that the incumbent politicians are &quot;dealing out&quot; and you definitely do not have any reason at all to gripe about anything to do with politics! No one can make you vote in this country, but you are definitely not taking any responsibility for how the country is run down to the utmost local level and therefore, you have no rights to express any opinions in those matters.

Some people think by not registering to vote that they will not be called to serve jury duty. In virtually all locations these days voters are gathered from either the tax rolls or driver's license records. Thus, not registering to vote only deprives you of your right to express your views where the choice of leaders is concerned.

Glen, K9STH

[w5zzq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 10 2003,21:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I locked down the TGIF thread AND posted an explanation why. #You must not have read the reasons why it was locked down. #The other thread I haven't had anything to do with. #I also moved two threads to the Q&amp;A section since they were much more properly posted thereon.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks Glen......Larry http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w5zzq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ Dec. 12 2003,11:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2ACX @ Dec. 12 2003,07http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well if as a voting citizen you truly believe it's your choice, you won't let any of these people make it for you!

Brian K2ACX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm 53 years old and have never voted. Probably never will. I have argued with the best of them on this so I know all the angles.
#About 30 years ago I was driving behind a very slow moving #old Rambler (its a car) that had a hand made bumper sticker strapped on with wire. It read: &quot;Don't vote, it only encourages them.&quot; I was curious to see who was driving so I pulled alongside at a red light. It was an old man who looked like he was 100 years old. I'll never forget that day.

#Anyone who can continuously vote for someone who will lie and BS them, while wearing a pleasant smile, has got to have something wrong with them.......but then again there are a lot of things Americana #I #don't understand.

#To me when you vote you are saying I approve of American politics in its current form....go ahead....you have my blessing.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Bill[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You don't have to vote FOR - you can vote AGAINST !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KB9YCO]

&quot;Contrary to what many have posted here and on other sites, QRZ is a firm believer in FREE SPEECH but please know what FREE SPEECH entails before you accuse us of infringing on your right of FREE SPEECH.&quot;

I have yet to see QRZ delete or lock a post without a good reason. I have seen so called liberal (not in the political sense) websites that deleted much more than QRZ. Also, they are a privately owned website and reserve the right to edit at will, which they rarely do. Give them some credit and maybe even some trust.
I have to agree that there is a large contingent of people online that believe every little thing they read on various websites. Then they spew it out to everyone else like it's the truth. I didn't see all of the posts in question but I doubt they were deleted only because someone at QRZ didn't agree with them.

[KG4WLI]

I am not one to complain, and I have not found the reason why the TGIF thread was locked, but I find that in the interest of National Security threads maybe locked, in protecting National interests.

However, in reference to expressing one's point of view, the locking of a thread is lacking in good judgment. I am a 42-year old college student living in an area that also practices restrictions of 1st Amendment Rights by means of removing books that are deemed by the County Commissioners as inappropriate.

Theses types of acts are wanted and willing deletion of factual information and in certain events the erasing of history.

So who am I to question the totalitarian tactics? After all I am a scholar and an American, why would I cherish and love freedom of speech? Are you clueless, I am?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Banned Books in Florida Public Schools (http://712educators.about.com/cs/bannedbooks/a/bookbanning.htm)

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AG3Y @ Dec. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> To me when you vote you are saying I approve of American politics in its current form....go ahead....you have my blessing. # # Bill #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

And when you DON't vote, you are saying, &quot; I approve of American politics in its current form &quot; too ! #Because the incumbent in almost all cases remains in office unless he/she is voted OUT !

So it is a case ( if you believe in the negative viewpoint ) of &quot;you're D**ned if you do, and you're D**ned if you don't !

I'd rather have a voice in the running of my country ( whether I agree with the current situation, or not ) than to just leave it up to others to decide my fate !

73 from Jim AG3Y[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What is more likely to have any chance of changing things:
(1) 90% of eligable voters casting for either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum?
(2) 90% of eligable voters refusing to take part in the same old dog chasing its tail crap?

I think we are at 55% of eligables not voting now. We got another 35% to go before the politicians get the message. Won't ever happen though....Too many good Americans doing their civic &quot;Duty&quot;.

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 12 2003,12:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am the election judge for Collin County Precinct 48 and I definitely believe that if you don't vote you don't have any reason to gripe about politics![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is the classic reply to my admitting I don't vote.

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5zzq @ Dec. 12 2003,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You don't have to vote FOR - you can vote AGAINST !! # <!--emo&amp;http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In your mind you are voting against but actually you are supporting the same old status quo.
I have the urge to support Howard Dean because I think George is bad for us....but I know better.

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4WLI @ Dec. 13 2003,10:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but I find that in the interest of National Security threads maybe locked, in protecting National interests.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Who makes that call? What if the Bush administration was to say their Democrat opponents are a threat to national security because if elected they may throw us off the proper course for national security? Could they then call off the elections?

To me the free flow of thoughts and ideas should have NO restriction whatsoever. (In the country, QRZ is a different story). If the people can't tell the difference between worthy speech and some screwball then we should well be damned.
If a significant percentage of the population are saying the same thing there may well be some validity to it no matter how off the wall it may seem.

[K9STH]

WLI:

You obviously have not read the thread about TGIF that I locked down. #Otherwise you would have read the following:

I understand your concerns. #However, I locked down a thread a couple of weeks ago about profanity on the air, the posting of the call signs of those who had alledgedly used the improper language, etc. #At that time I stated that there would be at least one month's &quot;cooling off&quot; period before allowing such a topic to be raised again on QRZ.com.

It is not that people are not concerned about such language. But, the tactics, etc., that some were stating that they were using, threats made by certain individuals towards those who were supporting the &quot;cleaning up&quot; of the airways, etc., made it necessary to lock down the thread. #Frankly, the posts to the thread were just repeating themselves, time and time again.

Thus, I am going to lock down this thread. #There is nothing personal involved. #However, you really need to have the repeater trustee notify the FCC that the particular individual has been repeated asked not to utilize the repeater. #The FCC has, in the past, formally requested that the banned individual &quot;show cause&quot; why he/she has continued to utilize the repeater. #This, basically, tell the individual not to use the repeater for any purpose.

Again, nothing personal, but I am locking down this thread.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[wm7o]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ Dec. 13 2003,10:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 12 2003,12:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am the election judge for Collin County Precinct 48 and I definitely believe that if you don't vote you don't have any reason to gripe about politics![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is the classic reply to my admitting I don't vote.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yup, that's the classic reply. I believe in voting, but I also believe in a person's right NOT to vote. Saying that someone does not have the right to gripe because they don't vote is just silly. I'm sure it makes the voter feel better about themselves, but it's just not true. Like it or not, I have the right to gripe whether I vote or not. Neener neener.

In fact, it's easy to make the case that one griping individual does more to affect elections than the individual's vote. But I also believe that we need to encourage voting in order to keep our system working.

[KG4WLI]

K9STH,

Thank you for re-stating the rational for locking down the thread.

In reference to the repeater trustee, the matter of liberty and free speech are not taken for granted on a repeater in question (N9EE 146.64MHz Repeater). In fact, this repeater is very, very liberal and holds the expression of one's voice in the highest regard.

The FCC has been contacted many, many times and the repeater trustee has on numerous occasions stated that the individual in violation be banned from future repeater use.

I find that if there is a continued and growing number of postings of &quot;expressions&quot; and &quot;responses&quot; in the matter of profanity then apparently this is a truly a very real issue that warrants not suppression but continued discussion.

The “cooling off period” is a good idea, yet does it not follow along the line of suppression of idea and thought? And is this not the purpose of the postings, to have discussion ideas and thought? The very thing we hold in high regard.

For the record, the live recording as witnessed by a few dozen Amateur Radio Operators in Tampa Bay, Florida is a permanent record of the64machine.org File Swap Server and listed under “Programs”.

Thank you for allowing me the freedoms of expression on QRZ.

Best regards,

Charles Hammill
KG4WLI
Tampa Bay, Florida, USA

[N5CTI]

Point #1: The First Amendment to the US Constitution states, in part, &quot;Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...&quot; Tell me how that applies to QRZ deciding what they allow on their web site.

Point #2: When has anything ever been changed by people who did nothing?

Point #3: Thanks for not locking the thread before I had a chance to get my response posted, Glen. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif aint it amazing that those who dont have the back bone to go vote tend to gripe the most ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[wm7o]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Dec. 14 2003,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif aint it amazing that those who dont have the back bone to go vote tend to gripe the most ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Backbone? Please. I don't think backbone has much to do with it. Voting is not a very difficult thing to do. I think that there are plenty of other reasons that have little to do with courage that cause people not to vote.

I understand the philosophy behind &quot;if you don't vote, you can't gripe!&quot;, but I think it's mostly just an excuse to dismiss people with whom you disagree. Unless you are prepared to keep track of the voting history of everyone with whom you interact, it's really a moot point. You would have to keep track of all of the persons that do not vote and ignore them.

I do vote, and I think you should too. But your voting is really none of my or anyone else's business.

BTW...how do you know whether or not someone votes?

[K9STH]

WLI:

Of course QRZ.com is not the bastion of &quot;free speech&quot; no matter how one interprets that subject. In following the guidelines set forth by the owner of QRZ.com I do have some leeway. In fact, I am usually a &quot;bit&quot; more liberal than some of the rest of the staff where certain subjects are allowed (I am not usually the person who locks down threads although I occasionally do lock them down). But, QRZ.com can be considered to be like sitting in someone's living room and discussing certain subjects. If the owner of the house gets tired of hearing about something, or if the subject does not meet with their personal outlook on life, they most certainly have a right to change the subject or else, if you persist in discussing things that the owner does not approve of, asking (or even ordering) you to leave.

Frankly, the topic of profanity on amateur radio got out of hand and was locked down with the approval of the entire staff of QRZ.com. We do communicate &quot;off site&quot; and discuss various matters. Of course there is a definite &quot;pecking order&quot; and, if Fred Lloyd says to shut something down, we do it without question! However, he usually allows the &quot;staff&quot; to make their own decisions. Frankly, I have shut down a very few threads that I thought we &quot;out of line&quot; or else, like the most recent profanity discussion I actually deleted, because the person had brought up the subject within just a couple of days after I locked down the previous discussion (some people won't just learn!).

Unfortunately, with some subjects a very few persons just cannot discuss things in an adult (and I don't mean &quot;adult&quot; as in adult Internet sites!) manner. They start going off the &quot;deep end&quot;, making threats, getting &quot;personal&quot; or profane with their comments, etc. This is just not allowed on QRZ.com! It is very easy to make your points and still remain in the rational comment area. It is very easy to make your points without getting profane or personal. However, some people cannot control their tempers or emotions and thus the trouble starts.

Thus, it was my decision (and the rest of the &quot;staff&quot; concurs) to shut down the profanity discussion and not to allow the subject to come up for a while. This is a case of &quot;if you don't like it, then 'lump' it&quot;! That has been my decision and I tend to keep it. Although we do allow a lot of subjects to be discussed on QRZ.com this is definitely not a democracy! In fact, you can really think of it as a &quot;benevolent dictatorship&quot;! So long as you don't anger any of the &quot;staff&quot; you can pretty much do whatever you please. But, don't adhere to the &quot;guidelines&quot;, or make a staff-member mad, then you shall reap the wrath of whomever you have displeased! Fortunately, it does take quite a bit to make one of the staff-members mad!

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif some one ( i think it was w7mo ) asked me in a friendly way if I knew if I could tell who did or did not vote....well... from their own words over the air, some folks ADMIT that they dont vote ( I guess for various reasons ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif , how ever they still had plenty of time to gripe. That is the only reference I have ( good or bad ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and that is about it....you just have to take folks for their word ( I dont know if they were bragging of griping about their not voting, I never asked them ), so I suppose you win. Congradulations on your tremendous success, and maybe some day we can converse like this again and you just might win 2 out of 2...based on your words you are an intelligent person, and it might be a real challenge to win a debate with you. But thanks for the honor any way. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KG4WLI]

K9STH,

Thank you for the reply!

Now I see why high walls are built around the homes of those that wish to protect themselves.

Apparently, Amateur Radio is like a cross-section of society, in that it is not of good intent nor of good manners. As they say, they proof is in the pudding. After experiencing a broad-spectrum of alleged Amateur Radio Operators and a few “Clubs” I find the majority are not what I consider of good taste. However, the few, oh so few are of very good standing and highly reputable.

And so it goes in the Good Ole USA, choose your friends and acquaintances wisely.


Best regards,

Charlie - KG4WLI

[N0WVA]

Why wouldnt I have the right to gripe if I cant find any candidate that I think would represent me ? I gather that some here would rather me vote for someone that doesnt represent me, and then I will somehow have the rights to gripe about what the person whom I helped elect into office is doing wrong.
I find that a lot of those who decide to vote are often making a more informed decision than those who cave in to the &quot;no vote, no gripe&quot; crowd.

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Dec. 14 2003,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif aint it amazing that those who dont have the back bone to go vote tend to gripe the most ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAAAAAAH !!

[n4ems]

As the person who wrote the TGIF Net letter and posted it here, I had no problem with QRZ locking it down. #I would have liked to have seen some of the replies that would have been generated, however, I am also respectful of the editors decision to lock it down.

QRZ allowed me to say my peace on the issue, left it up for other hams to see the post and follow the link provided in the post if they so chose to do. #Good enough for me.

Thanks QRZ. #Sometimes these posts get a little stupid and sometimes they really push the envelope but you allow us to state our opinion and that can be very healthy.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[k4dje]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Point #1: The First Amendment to the US Constitution states, in part, &quot;Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well Congress did, and the Bush administration signed it into law, and the Supreme Court upheld it. SO much for the bill of rights.

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Dec. 14 2003,19:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif aint it amazing that those who dont have the back bone to go vote tend to gripe the most ? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Backbone? That's a joke right?

I work hard for my money just like most people. And the instant my government takes part of my every hard earned dollar in taxes, that politician becomes my (Our) employee. THAT, my friend, gives me absolute right to complain about his job performance, whether I cast my vote or not.

His job description is to serve and represent EVERYBODY in his district, state, or country. Voters and non-voters alike.

I am not defending non-voters, but to say the this tax payer has no right to complain if I didn't vote, is pure stupidity. If they don't have the right to gripe, then let the politicians pay back every tax dollar they took as their salary, to everyone who didn't vote.

Like that's gonna happen.

*****************************
Now would someone please tell me what voting has to do with QRZ having the perfect right to lock down any thread they see fit to lock down? QRZ is not a democracy. It's a privately owned and operated business, that GIVES us the privilege to post our opinions. Not one poster has the RIGHT to complain about QRZ editing, deleting, or locking down anything.

If you don't agree with QRZ policy, then don't post here. I love this site. And I think QRZ has been far more than fair with many of us, including myself. Good job Fred and crew.

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Dec. 16 2003,01:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#QRZ is not a democracy. #It's a privately owned and operated business, that GIVES us the privilege to post our opinions. Not one poster has the RIGHT to complain about QRZ editing, deleting, or locking down anything.

If you don't agree with QRZ policy, then don't post here. #I love this site. #And I think QRZ has been far more than fair with many of us, including myself. #Good job Fred and crew.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Exactly, they usually only delete threads that get WAY out of hand. Keep up the good work, QRZ Staff! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W0UZR]

How did this get to be a topic on voting? Better that than an explosive subject huh?

As far as voting, I can give you what my dad always said. He says &quot;No man is an island to himself.&quot; That means that everyone whether he does something or not is going to have an effect on people in some form or another.

You can participate and try to be effective for something positive, or effective in something negative. And by doing nothing doesn't mean that you are not going to effect anything. Or anyone.

I believe the right to vote is a very valued thing. A lot of contries don't have the freedom to vote. And without it, we may as well be a dictatorship.

If my measley little vote can make a tinge of difference, then I'm glad to have the right to make that little bit of difference!!!

And YOU SHOULD TOO !!

Are you proud to be an American??? Then GET IN THERE AND VOTE ! !



KB0UZR

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k4dje @ Dec. 16 2003,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Point #1: The First Amendment to the US Constitution states, in part, &quot;Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well Congress did, and the Bush administration signed it into law, and the Supreme Court upheld it. SO much for the bill of rights.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...Well as we all know now, it seems that the &quot;bush administration&quot; is going to do whatever it feels like doing, regardless of what the U.N., the voters, or the world has to say about it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[N5CTI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bgo @ Dec. 16 2003,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k4dje @ Dec. 16 2003,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Point #1: The First Amendment to the US Constitution states, in part, &quot;Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech...&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well Congress did, and the Bush administration signed it into law, and the Supreme Court upheld it. SO much for the bill of rights.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...Well as we all know now, it seems that the &quot;bush administration&quot; is going to do whatever it feels like doing, regardless of what the U.N., the voters, or the world has to say about it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And so I'll repeat what was cut out of the quote from my original post: Tell me how that applies to QRZ deciding what they allow on their web site.

Or are you just hijacking the thread? I just want to be sure I understand your point.

[K9STH]

I really think that everyone who voted for the campaign finance bill really expected it to be over-turned by the federal courts. This bill was not proposed by the Bush administration but George W. Bush did say that he would sign the bill if it were passed. The Democrats were as much, if not more, in favor of this bill.

When most of the provisions were upheld by the 5:4 decision there were a number of politicians on both sides that were not &quot;happy campers&quot; even though they had voted for the bill thinking of making &quot;brownie points&quot; from the people back home. This is one case where their plans &quot;backfired&quot;!

As for &quot;hi-jacking&quot; of the thread: This happens all the time here on QRZ.com!

Glen, K9STH

[K2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Dec. 15 2003,21http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I work hard for my money just like most people. And the instant my government takes part of my every hard earned dollar in taxes, that politician becomes my (Our) employee. #THAT, my friend, gives me absolute right to complain about his job #performance, whether I cast my vote or not. . . . . .

. . . I am not defending non-voters, but to say the this tax payer has no right to complain if I didn't vote, is pure stupidity. #If they don't have the right to gripe, then let the politicians pay back every tax dollar they took as their salary, to everyone who didn't vote.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sure, everyone has the right to gripe. #But as part-owners of the great American company, should we not all play an active role in determining how it's run? #The level of apathy among so many non-voters is part of the reason government gets away with so much of what they complain about! #

Choosing not to vote is not an outright sacrifice of your right to complain, but it is certainly a powerful collective endorsement of status quo.

All the best,
Brian K2ACX

[N5CTI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 16 2003,11:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for &quot;hi-jacking&quot; of the thread: #This happens all the time here on QRZ.com![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How well I know, Glen, how well I know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I'm not saying it shouldn't happen (been guilty of it too many times myself), but I just wanted to better understand the point.

Or am I hijacking the thread now? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N5CTI @ Dec. 16 2003,12:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 16 2003,11:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for &quot;hi-jacking&quot; of the thread: #This happens all the time here on QRZ.com![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How well I know, Glen, how well I know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I'm not saying it shouldn't happen (been guilty of it too many times myself), but I just wanted to better understand the point.

Or am I hijacking the thread now? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Rant Mode On

It is a well understood factor in online communications that conversations started on a topic can diverge into many subtopics an alternate conversations.

Usenet news, perhaps the most successful topic-based communications method available online, has included mechanisms to make following subtopics, keeping track of who is responding to what, and so forth for over 15 years -- long before anyone ever thought of a &quot;web board&quot;.

Using web boards is like turning the technology clock back 20 years, and it's really frustrating.

Not to mention a classic example of attempting to reinvent the wheel and coming up with a cube.

Rant Mode Off

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Choosing not to vote is not an outright sacrifice of your right to complain, but it is certainly a powerful collective endorsement of status quo.

All the best,
Brian K2ACX [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You may be right Brian, but the status quo is, &quot;The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, and (most) of us pay taxes&quot;. And that happens no matter who is in office. It's always been that way no matter how many people voted.

Take care Brian.

[n4ems]

To end some of the debate, I have removed the TGIF posting I made a week or so ago. #The argument about free speech and so on is nice but, this is not a publicly owned forum. #If the web page/site owner doesn't want the post on here, or #he wants it restricted, than that is his business. #

If the government owned this site, it might be a little different story. #However, I would feel that the owner of the site would be dropping the responsibility ball if he did not lock down threads from time to time, especially if he had witness to the fact that certain topics can get out of control.

My intent when I posted my letter was not to cause a back lash about who can post what, when, where, etc. #It was to display the conduct of a local ham on a repeater. #For those that know the problem here in Tampa first hand can appreciate why I posted this letter. #For those outside of the footprint of the repeater, the link was provided to see, or at least hear, for yourselves what was being said/done.

In all honesty, we do not pay dime one to have the ability to post on this site as well as use some of its other amenities. #So, just like a repeater owner/trustee, the keeper of the site has the right to restrict or refuse the use of this site for whatever purposes they see fit.'

I suppose that if you are one of those people that doesn't like that idea, you could get your own sponsors, your own domain space and spend your own money to get your own site so that other people can post things that you will want to edit/restrict/remove.

Thanks again, QRZ, and I apologize for any inconveniences.

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2ACX @ Dec. 16 2003,11:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#

Choosing not to vote is not an outright sacrifice of your right to complain, but it is certainly a powerful collective endorsement of status quo.

All the best,
Brian K2ACX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
180 degrees out.

[kc7jty]

When you don't vote at least the politians know they aren't snowing everybody......the bigger the no vote crowd the less effective the snow job. They get the message.

[K9STH]

JTY:

Having been involved in politics for the past 30 years (have been a delegate to the Texas State Republican Party convention for 12 times, etc.) let me say that the incumbents usually like for those who don't vote to continue to do so. People who don't vote are perceived as liking the &quot;status quo&quot; since they are too lazy to take time to go out and vote!

This happened in the City of Richardson back in the mid-1980s and a couple of developers got all sorts of zoning changes (most of them detremental to the residents) through the city council before the residents finally took notice and voted all but one of the city council members (including the mayor) out of office. The single council member who survived did so by only about 20 votes! He changed his perspective on life very fast!

Although your personal opinion is your own and, under the laws of the United States, you are certainly entitled to it. But, in my opinion, you are not doing anything by not voting except to reinforce the incumbents.

Many people definitely go out of their way to make sure that they get to vote. For example, several years back, during a Presidential election, an elderly lady, dressed in black, came to the front of a very long line of voters and asked if she might be able to go ahead an vote even though there was a very long line. She also said that if it wasn't possible, then she definitely understood. It turned out that she was on her way to her husband's funeral and wouldn't be able to have enough time to attend the funeral and then get back to vote. As election officials we definitely allowed her to vote and explained to those in line just why we were allowing her to &quot;buck&quot; the line. There was not a single person in line who griped, and there were over 100 in line at the time!

My particular precincts are always in the top 3 percentage wise in the entire county in terms of registered voters voting. More often than not, we are 1 and 2. The worst is 1 and 3! The 1984 Presidential election was the highest turn-out ever. We had over 96 percent turn out. Basically that was virtually 100 percent of the voters because of those who had moved from the precinct, had died, etc.

There is a definite enclave of retired persons in this neighborhood. Those people tend to be very frugile and you have to convince them that a bond issue is necessary. But, those people definitely vote in favor of certain bond issues if they believe them to be sound. If the bond issue isn't sound, at least in their minds, then it doesn't get their vote.

Because of the high turn-out in precincts 48 and 55 (both vote at the same place) there have been very few candidates that have taken the entire county that have not taken these two precincts. As such, every county candidate spends at least half of their time standing outside of the 100 foot line and many spend the entire 12 hours that the polls are open standing outside of 48 and 55. Those who don't spend the entire day usually have their spouse standing when they are not personally available!

When the two precincts are combined (which often happens), I have well over 6,000 registered voters. When during an &quot;off&quot; election (when turn-out isn't as high), the county combines 3 more precincts with my 2. At that time I have almost 12,000 voters registered! Combine this with the high percentage of turn-out and you have a lot of people going through the lines!

Anyway, if you choose not to vote then so be it! But, don't believe that you are accomplishing anything except to reinforce the incumbents by doing so!

Glen, K9STH

[W0UZR]

Now that was a mouthfull. Well said, Glen.

Now there it is from a person who is involved directly in this and should know what this is about. Maybe the person that doesn't want to vote wants to support the incumbents. And if he doesn't then he shouldn't complain.

And if things arn't going the way he wants, then he can get in there and make a difference. Like go and vote.

Some people care enough on what go on around him to get involved, and others don't. There are doers, and there are stumps. If I don't get involved in something, and try to help fix anything, I'm not going to feel I've EARNED a right to complain. If I get involved, then I feel I've EARNED the right to complain. And if I don't vote, I feel I have no right to complain if things arn't going the way I like. If I do vote, then I feel I've EARNED the right to complain.



kb0uzr

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 17 2003,18:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">JTY:

Having been involved in politics for the past 30 years......[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Glen:
I will concede to you that local politics is much different that higher up the scale. I &quot;voted&quot; for the location of a new railroad underpass in my town this summer, and seriously considered voting in the town elections.
As far as voting for a &quot;politician&quot;, especially one who is running for a position in the fed. gvt. (this includes the US congress members from your state) I find it very uncomfortable to think of ever doing. Although I would agree that throwing out the incumbent every chance you get will probably have a net benefit. (thats NOT the way it should be)
I seriously think there is very little real difference in who is in office in the higher positions.
My hope in a very large percentage of the population not voting is that we'll have real change and more politician accountability (and less BS) but I seriously don't think it will ever happen because the people currently voting are the ones least qualified to do so.
How different would things be if we had the founding father's ideas about elections in the country still in effect today?
Bill

[kd5sdi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Dec. 16 2003,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*****************************
Now would someone please tell me what voting has to do with QRZ having the perfect right to lock down any thread they see fit to lock down? #QRZ is not a democracy. #It's a privately owned and operated business, that GIVES us the privilege to post our opinions. Not one poster has the RIGHT to complain about QRZ editing, deleting, or locking down anything.

If you don't agree with QRZ policy, then don't post here. #I love this site. #And I think QRZ has been far more than fair with many of us, including myself. #Good job Fred and crew.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah,
I know I have put my foot in my mouth a few times.

[K9STH]

Bill, JTY:

You &quot;busted&quot; yourself! I thought that you said a &quot;ways&quot; back that you had never voted!

As for state and national offices, I am fortunate in that I personally know my State Representative (he lives 5 blocks from me and his youngest daughter and my middle daughter were best friends all the way from elementary school through high school), my Congressional Representative was a POW in Viet Nam for over 7 years and I know him personally, I am acquainted with both Texas Senators (and the previous Senator, Phil Gramm actually nominated me to serve on the Federal Communications Commission under the George H. W. Bush Presidency - was eliminated at the final round when they went for the &quot;usual&quot; Washington, DC, legal crowd!), I have met the present President Bush several times although I would not expect him to recognize me in a crowd!

In fact, I have met every President from Eisenhower through the present with the exception of Kennedy. I met Jimmy Carter when he was running for Governor of Georgia, literally almost ran into Johnson in downtown Atlanta, Georgia, just weeks after he became president, was George Bush's (#41) personal escort at the Texas Republican Convention while he was still President, and so on! Was recognized on the same &quot;bill&quot; as George W. Bush when he was running for Governor of Texas.

As for local and county politics, it is very nice to stop by the county courthouse and have people know who you are! Since I live 3/8ths of a mile inside Collin County from Dallas County things are a &quot;bit&quot; more relaxed. It is more like being a &quot;big&quot; fish in a &quot;small pond&quot; to being a &quot;little&quot; fish in the ocean which I would be if I lived just 3 blocks south!

But, all bragging aside, I sincerely believe that everyone should take an interest in government even if they don't vote the same way that I do (and I have actually voted for a Democrat or two!).

Glen, K9STH

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ...so let me see if I got this right: By NOT voting, you are saying that you do NOT want change, that you are HAPPY with thing just as they are. Did I get it right or am I totally wrong ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 18 2003,15:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bill, JTY:

You &quot;busted&quot; yourself! #I thought that you said a &quot;ways&quot; back that you had never voted!

As for state and national offices.........[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now wait a minute. A railroad underpass..!!? BTW my selection passed.

This is the thing that is great about the US (so far). You can do or not do and its OK.

I forgot to mention I attended a few city council meetings where a water pressure problem that my neighbors and I were experiencing was discussed. It was heading down the yeah, yeah, we'll take care of it path for months till the time my neighbor got up and really unloaded on them. He was hot but in full controll, and let them know that it wasn't just an inconvienience problem but a life and property thing considering the fire hazzard. He also told them the media was going to hear about it if it wasn't corrected. The results were amazing.
I won't hesitate to attend future meetings if there are things of personal interest on the agenda.

[K9STH]

AMG:

You definitely got that one RIGHT! CORRECT! Etc.


JTY:

Even voting on a railroad underpass counts as voting!!!! You had to punch a card, mark a ballot, touch a &quot;touch screen&quot;, &quot;flick&quot; a lever (on a voting machine), or whatever. You still voted! I am proud of you! Now, next election go out and vote. You don't have to vote for everything on the ballot. In this part of the country many elections are actually decided in the primaries since the Democrats quite often do not have anyone to put up for county elections (city and school district elections are non-partisan by Texas law - you cannot declare any party that you might be a member), when someone is unopposed on the ballot, they often draw between 15 and 20 percent less than the total number of votes cast. Many people just don't take time to vote &quot;down ballot&quot; unless there is a real &quot;race&quot; involved.

Bond elections definitely affect your taxes. You need to take a good look at those! City council, school district, and county elections are close to home. Your state elections can greatly affect your taxes as well. Those reasons alone should be sufficient for you to take time to get out and vote!

Glen, K9STH

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9STH @ Dec. 18 2003,18:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">JTY:

Even voting on a railroad underpass counts as voting!!!! #You had to punch a card, mark a ballot, touch a &quot;touch screen&quot;, &quot;flick&quot; a lever (on a voting machine), or whatever. #You still voted! #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh No!!....I'm not a virgin any more.

[W0UZR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Dec. 18 2003,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ...so let me see if I got this right: # By NOT voting, you are saying that you do NOT #want change, that you are HAPPY with thing just as they are. # #Did I get it right or am I totally wrong ? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yah you got that totaly wrong.

Glen met every president since Eisenhower except Kennedy! Wow! I have met Wellstone. And what a loss that was for us when the plane he was in crashed. He really went to bat for us. He didn't win the fight on the education bill that was passed over a year ago, and that's why our education system stinks now.

And I met Jim Oberstar several times. And I have knowen one of his cousines for years.

And another thing on voting...It wasn't long ago that we had Jessie the Body Ventura!! And how did he get elected?? What happened was that most of the older voters that were level-headed stayed home, because they thought their pick on governer was a cinch to win because Ventura was so far behind. And all the young people went out and voted,,, and of course, as you all know now, Ventura won.

So you don't think it matters if you don't go and VOTE??? Give me a break!

[W0UZR]

No no,, NO:;

I have to agree with Glen,, amg, you got it right. You got it RIGHT!!

Cause if you don't vote,, that helps me. Cause you would be voting for the people that I wouldn't be voting for.

So GREAT!! DON'T VOTE,,PLEASE. I need all the help I can get to vote in my candidates.

[K3DAV]

Excuse me. #Is this the thread about LOCKED or MISSING threads on QRZ, or am I in the wrong thread?

If you want to vote, VOTE.

If you don't want to vote, THEN DON'T

The last time I checked, this was still a free country. #Whoever gets in office will do what THEY want anyway. #What YOU want means nothing to politicians.

Republican, Democrat, Independant, vote, don't vote......it's all a joke. #Politicians only care about their own agendas, and not yours. #So who cares.

Sex, Politics, Religion, and code/no-code, are all subjects that should never be in open forums like this. Each side takes an extreme position, and it goes from a debate to a dumb argument. #They just go on and on and on and on and on... with the same old reruns, and no ending in sight. #

Whatever happened to positive discussions about our wonderful hobby? #Sometimes I can't believe that QRZ allows it's bandwidth to get wasted like this.

[K9STH]

DAV:

This particular forum is labeled &quot;Talk and Opinions&quot; and any topic is allowed so long as the discussion doesn't get obscene, profane, or a series of personal attacks.

Also, many topics even though they start on one subject go off on tangents (&quot;hi-jacked&quot;!) just like when you are in a round-table discussion with a group of people &quot;face to face&quot;. I gave up a long time ago trying to keep the discussions on the &quot;straight and narrow&quot; so far as the topic goes.

Most of the other &quot;forums&quot; on QRZ.com stick pretty much to the subject of amateur radio (although some of them have threads that go off on tangents as well). This particular forum is the exception. That is, subjects other than amateur radio seem to appear on a regular basis.

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[K3DAV]

You're right Glen, and I understand how these threads sometimes go off topic.

It just never ceases to amaze me how these hot topics take 2 extreme sides. Whatever one side says, the other side demands a negetive reply. After a few ying and yang post's, they are no longer contributing to the debate. They are just redundant opposition arguments with no end in sight.

Look at the CW issue, (For example). One thread has over 600 post now, and growing. And 590 of them are just &quot;Copy &amp; Paste's&quot; of the other similar threads that have been beaten to death a hundred times. The same thing happens everytime the topic includes religion, sex, and politics. If the post's were contributing to the discussion, it would be great. But after the first 4 or 5, it becomes nothing more than a &quot;YOU'RE WRONG, I'M RIGHT&quot; redundancy.

Nobody should demand that a person has no rights because they don't wish to vote. Everyone has their own personal reasons for their actions. But don't tell someone they don't have a right to complain. Of course they do. They are still Americans, and above all, human beings.

OK. End of rant. And as Dennis Miller used to say. &quot;But that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong&quot;. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W0UZR]

Hay Glen:

There was some talk on upgrading this system here because things are getting maxed out. Well, I don't think that you necessarly need to get more bandwidth. Just open the bandwidth you already have. The &quot;Contesters&quot; thing is my thread and was dead for weeks and a bunch of other ones too that could be deleted.

kb0uzr

[K9STH]

Actually, the system has been upgraded several times in recent months.

As for the old threads, they usually remain &quot;active&quot; for a certain period of time and then &quot;die a peaceful death&quot;. But, occasionally someone has to find one that is on its death bed and bring it back to life.

I was having a problem with the speed of the site with both Netscape 4.79 and Internet Explorer 6.0. Frankly, all of the Netscapes between 4.79 and 7.0 were not worth a &quot;darn&quot;. But, I finally added Netscape 7.2 and was able to keep 4.79 (which the other versions of Netscape &quot;wiped out&quot;). Netscape 7.2 works very fast as well as working with all of the &quot;new&quot; features that some sites have.

You might be having some speed issues with your present browser. I was becomming frustrated until I upgraded to Netscape 7.2

Glen, K9STH
One of the QRZ.com moderators

[W0UZR]

Boy! you are really on the ball..You're always here. You are the best man QRZ has. How do you have time to talk on the radio?

Well, needless to say, I need a new computer. I have an old slow computer, and it matches me...I'm slow too.

So maybe that's why everytime I write NEW,,It's in red.



kb0uzr