When the Thrill is Gone!!

w7av writes "For the past several months I've noticed alot of ads for the FT-817. Looks like a fun radio. There are so many accessories available, like antenna tuners, carrying packs, speech processors, battery packs, chargers, antennas, etc., that when you add all this stuff up it's a pretty big investment for a 5 watt radio.




I contend that the majority of users will loose interest in QRP after awhile. Not all and some new users will stay. But most will want to go on to other amateur activity. Most 100w radios will go down to 5 watts output. You are stuck with the FT-817 at 5 watts. How well do those 5 watter's get out on 20 meters SSB with a short whip---not too far I would guess. 6 meters and maybe 10 meters might be useful.



What I don't care to see is alot of people spending big bucks for something that they will probably have little or no use for in a year--other than a fancy 6 and 2 meter radio. This is not for the new ham.



What Yaesu needs to do is come out with an amp that will allow 100w operation, than the FT-817 makes more dollar sense.



LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR QRP-----is a statement that has some truth in it. OK I am ready to get BLASTED!!! Rick, W7AV"

There is certainly an undeniable thrill to working DX or busting a pileup with only 5 Watts, but doing the same thing you’ve always done with 100 or more Watts is only the most obvious and superficial aspect of QRPing. QRP encompasses much more. Many QRP enthusiasts operate portable on hikes, camping trips, vacations and/or business trips with small or improvised antennas. A rig like the FT817 works well for activities like these where it would be impossible or impractical to be QRO. Another significant aspect of QRP operating radios that you have built yourself, either from kits or from scratch. How about working DX or busting a pileup with 5 Watts with a rig you built yourself? Many QRPers don’t stop there. They design their own gear too. And, truth be told, most QRPers also operate QRO. QRP is just another side of their involvement with the hobby of ham radio.

Lou W7DZN

[k7unz]

No blast in this reply Rick, as I tend to agree with you on all your points. The only thing we differ on is possibly the solution. I don't believe that adding yet another option (the amp) will do much to help. The fact is that the real problem is that there just isn't much available in the way of "low priced spread" rigs, QRP or otherwise. The ham radio industry is just doing the same thing everyone else is doing. Offering the "basic" item at a reasonable price, but then telling you that if you REALLY want to get some use out of it, you need these other do-dads. Take printers as an example. You can now get very good photo quality printers at a fraction of the cost a few years ago. But wait until you need to replace those ink cartriges at $25-30 a pop! What we need to see is a return to the good "basic" rig, that will serve a usefull life, where it becomes a back-up rig in it's later years. The Elkraft K2 is a honey of a rig, and I've worked many stations who use them. BUT, it's expensive, and when the going gets rough, it's still QRP. And many are now showing-up on the used market, and I would not be surprised to find the owners have realized the power/price ratio sucks. No, you don't need a KW....I run my FT-990 at 75 watts, sometimes less, and work all I want to work. I think another problem is that the QRP fraternity has given themselves the image that when they call CQ, and sign "/qrp", they only want to hear from other QRP stations. There are a lot of unanswered CQ's on the bands, from QRP stations with good signals. I've answered more than a few, and some turn into enjoyable QSOs, while others make it pretty clear that they don't want to deal with a QRO 75 watt guy. Bottom line, save your bucks. Get a used QRP rig to play with for a while before putting down the big loot! As for me, I'll just turn down the power when the mood strikes.....ya know, there was a time when 10 watts was QRP! 73 Rick!! Jim/K7UNZ

It may be that some QRPers are looking only for other QRPers but if so, I would expect them to put QRP prior to their call as in "CQ CQ QRP DE W7DZN". Putting it after their call sign is supposed to identify the caller, not who is being called. It seems this simple concept is lost on many nowadays.

Lou W7DZN

[v73god]

It's a fad. It might last but the radios will be collectors items in about 20 years. I have a TS-660 and TS-680V. Great radios for PSK, SSB on 6,10 & 12 and just about worthless everywhere else on the band. No one wants to strain on 20 meters to work you and even when you have found a freq, you get clobbered by a QRO station after 15 minutes or so. That happens when you're on KH8 or V73 so if you're in W6 land, I shudder at the thought.

The Argonaut (sp) and a few other radio have been around for a while. The interesting part is watching this stuff being sold on eBay. The original owner still wants top dollar. You might want to just let them learn from their mistakes by getting a portable battery and taking your TS-570 mobile. Turn the power down to five watts when parked and see what it's like. If you're frustrated, offer the guy on eBay $20. Yukwe Yuk from the Marshall and Hawaiian Islands.

[wr6s]

Consider yourself blasted. Everyone has a different use for the 817. at its current cost,it is a great way to get on 2/430 ssb to work weak sig modes. Offcourse you need a brick but those can be had cheaply. I differ wiht your opinion regarding the radio being qrp. I guess it is primarily qrp but it does so much other stuff. You did hit it on the head regarding 6-2. great portable. But psk31 is easy,fm stats easy[non full duplex but doable]great emergency radio. What im trying to say is that you may have a point, but the radio is NOT only for qrp. It is an all around "experimenters" radio. Would i suggest it for a brand new ham. NO. i agree with you there. But it is the best radio out there for doing so much. It is a platform to build a great bag of experimental tricks in ham radio on. It is by far an excellent buy. Consider the cost of a single band 2m ssb rig. ?!Now buy a 817,brick long beam rotor,and you have a far superior station to a single bander. fOR NEWBIES, IT IS A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND MASTER OF NONE. GOOD PLATFORM. patdm14

[kingscross]

I think That many people don't get the essence of the 817. It is the coolest radio to come down in years. All these guy's complain that it is only a 5 watt radio. Well it is a BACKPACK radio. Obvisly most hams are not used to backpacking. That is why I bought one. If you want a 100 watt radio buy one. Maybe you'll change you mind next time you want your 100 watt radio and have to hump your series 27 deep cycle battery 20 miles into the bush. I would agree that there are better radios for the newcomer. Just keep in mind the purpose of the radio and for it is perfect. Not to mention that it is dynamite as an IF driver for microwave transverters! This reminds me of the idiots that pooh-poohed the Icom 706 that it wasn't this or that but remember all bands, all modes for $100. bucks unbelievable. Just a note that a guy who was my repeater Elmer told me about ham radio. It is just a hobby if it is not more 51% fun than maybe it is time to do something else. And if you don't like a product act like and American and not some socialist and don't buy one!!! It really pisses me off when all the socialist want to take my choice away.

KC6FLG

[WA4MJF]

Unless you read 97.317 (a) (3) in a way that I don't, I can't see how they can build and market
an amp for that radio in the US market.

We have the Chicken Banders to thank (yeh, right
more like cuss the scumbags they are) for the regulations on external amps.

73 de Ronnie

[KG0DK]

If you ain't tried it, don't knock it! Hi!

As far as how far can you "get out" with one of these? I chatted (on SSB - 10 meters) a while back with a chap in New Zealand who was standing in his house with "one of those whips".

About a month ago, I sat on a park bench along the bay at Oakland and chatted on 20m SSB (2-1/2 w) with friends in Phoenix and in Minneapolis/St. Paul area using "one of those whips" clamped to the park bench.

And had a great QSO on SSB 17m from inside my house in Minneapolis/St.Paul area with a chap near London, Ontario "with one of those whips" on it's little tripod. (The "whip" is the MP-1 "Superantenna" by W6MMA, http://www.superantennas.com.)

BTW, 2 meter and 70 cm FM work great portable as well. I use a small mag mount dual bander (one of those with the quarter size magnets, small coax and a bnc and plunk it on top of my rental car!

And then there are all those other contacts using my home QTH regular antennas.

So - - will I get tired of QRP? No, because it's not all I do! It'll fit in where appropriate for me! QRO's fine and "barefoot 100w" is good, too.

Just depends.

73,

Ray
KG0DK

They will have to pry my 817 out of my cold, dead hands when God finally calls me home! I am a new Ham, and I just love the thing.



You’re right, though, ONE DOES GET TIRED OF RUNNING 5 WATTS. But the 817 has a great solution – turn the power down. Heck, just this morning, I worked Aruba on SSB with 100 mw on an attic-mounted dipole in a pile-up. Now, that’s QRP!



I have big radios (just bought a Pro II), but I don’t use them for much other than 6m. You can’t turn the power down low enough to make it fun.



The whole point of the exercise in Ham radio is havin’ fun. There really is a thrill in seeing how low you can go. The 817 is great for that. Further, I’m really looking forward to taking it to KH6 land later this year.



The best $700 I ever spent. It does need a CW filter, though. And I wish I could turn it down lower than 100 mw. Hey, maybe I’ll try it through the dummy load! :)



Peter Baskind, J.D., LL.M.


AG4KI

[ky7f]

No need to bash anyone, Rick! People have differing opinions. I've owned an FT-817 for a year now and have to say it's rapidly becoming my favorite rig. Most of my radio work is on CW, and the FT-817 fits the bill perfectly. QRP CW works on all the bands, my longest thus far being 4000 miles on 40m, running about 4 watts into an Outbacker antenna. A person should buy an FT-817, as well as any other rig, for the 'right' reasons, and recognize its strengths/limitations. If you do, it's a very enjoyable rig! (I can imagine the hassle I'd have trying to lug my FT-847 and power supply around on vacations and business trips.) A 'fad'? Time will tell, but I don't think so, especially for those of us who love QRP CW! 73's! doug

[AB9DB]

I agree. I don't have the 869+ bucks for a FT 817 but I do happen to have about seven vacuum tubes, some diodes, coils, capacitors and a few crystals ,(to make a filter for the receiver), laying around. I realized last night I could make all these goodies into a nice 5 watt phasing-type SSB exicter along with a receiver. Coupled with my marine battery that I use for trolling and a $49 400 watt power inverter from WalMart and I'm ready for portable QRP up at the lake.



Obviously, it won't work all ten ham bands with no tuning. Ah.. but so what? It will work the two or three bands that interest me and by tuning the transmitter and antenna coupler myself, I get useful feedback about the antenna.



I could backpack a lighter battery along with the power inverter to the top of a mountain. However, I'm more inclined to the old version of "mountain topping" - drive to the top a mountain - such as Mount Scott south of Lawton, OK, and spend the afternoon with a picnic lunch rag chewing with the West and West coast on HF QRP.



Using a 5 watt rig with a mobile antenna is unnecessary even for portable operation. Far better to go to a park and using a fishing reel and sling shot, toss a line in a tree and haul up a full-size wire antenna - or kit up a quad from fishing poles that are telescoped together. This month's QST has an interesting article for a convienent portable dipole or inverted vee.



QRP is about building equipment with available parts as well as about the thrill of communicating long distances on limited power. The FT 817 seems to take away half of that.



And, while I've noticed a few ham authors have tried to reframe QRP cw as "old" and QRP SSB as the "new kewl," it ain't kewl if you can't communicate. Five watts of SSB doesn't have near the communications effectiveness of 5 watts of CW. With CW, all you've got to be able to do is hear the presence of a signal,(which is manifest as a tone.) With a SSB signal down in the noise, it's really tough to communicate because the SSB signal contains a broad range of audio tones and amplitudes - all and any of which can be corrupted by the noise.



Listen to a weak SSB signal and then listen to a weak CW signal at the same level to hear and experience the difference. I've done it. I far prefer weak signal cw.



Finally, why not just make your own QRP rig and save about $800?



Hmmm, for an amp. Well, why wait on Yaesu? A pair of 2E26s or a pair of 5763s in push pull will give you a compact 20 watts of output or an issue of 1999 QST, (forgotten which one) had a 40 watt output linear using power FETs.



How about that 100 watts the orginator of this thread wanted? A pair of 1625/807s will give you 150 watts, a pair of 6146s will give you about 180 watts, a single 811A as a grounded-grid amp is good for 200 watts input and 100 watts out - class AB2. Of course it isn't "pocket-sized portable" but he probably wanted to be able to add-on those 100 watts at his home station. I'm not a fan of huge current, low voltage amplifiers.



:)



73, Dave

[k5qlf]

Rick: Some of what you say is dead on. There is a mind-boggling collection of gongs, whistles and bells surrounding the FT-817, and most of them are unnecessary wastes of money for real QRP operating. Buying an FT-817 -- or a K2, for that matter -- does not make one a QRPer. As a totally unreconstructed QRPer for more than 20 years, I do not miss higher power. I also know I neither need nor want the accessories offered by those trying to piggyback the latest trendy rig that's being hyped not only by the manufacturer but by the Ham Radio press. (Count the number of FT-817 articles in CQ over the past few months. There is a term for that, and it starts with a P.) The process reminds me of the automobile industry and its options that do little to improve performance or safety or increase gasoline mileage but do lots to balloon the bottom line. As for life being too short for QRP, I have yet to find it so. Rather: QRP isn't for wimps! :>)
73, Fred, K5QLF, San Antonio..

[K2WH]

So what's your point about working Aruba on 100mw? It can be done with 1mw. Your runnning way too much power fella!



By the way, for those who are being misled, the 756pro will go down to 2 watts just by turning the RF Power Control. But, apparently that's not low enough for some.



Peter, if 100mw is not low enough for you, may I suggest you try retuning your garage door opener for 10 meters and work some real long haul DX. They put out less than 100mw I hear, right up your alley. Or, maybe you do not need a transmitter at all. Why not just yell out the window at the top of your lungs towards Europe. Do it long enough and eventually they may hear you. Of course you would have to co-ordinate your efforts with another Yeller in Europe. Just think, you could be the first to receive W.A.S. (Worked all Streets). Then again, there are smoke signals. The list just goes on and on. I think you know what I mean. :}



Life IS too short for QRP.

[K2WH]

QRP, what a waste of time and money. You want to know how I really feel? Well, I'm tired of the FCC limiting amplifiers to 1.5kw output. I want to see an amplifier that requires the utility to put in a special feeder and attendant substation (13.8kv would be just fine) just to run the final amp.


I'm tired of tube manufacturers with no vision who have yet to make a billion watt tube, even after all the letters I have sent them.


Fella let me tell you, when I push the transmit button, I want to see a coronal blue glow on the antenna and surrounding air. I want to hear the hiss of corona as I transmit. I want to run enough power so I don't have to worry about poor band conditions. I want enough power to ionize the upper reaches of the ionisphere and space to make my own opening. And finally, I want power so high that the operator must sit in a shielded room to prevent biological damage.


God, I love the smell of RF in the morning. Oh, er.... Excuse me, -------- I lost it there for a minute. Sorry.

[N0KZ]

The truth is "Battery Life is Too Short for QRO." You can tell a QRO portable operator by the sound of his generator in the passband.

Secret's out folks: QRP is fun and easy.

[KM5RC]

W7AV raises an excellent point....all that money to be stuck with 5 watts, to one day realize you really want a little more power!

But hey Rick look at it this way, when the qrp folks finally get tired of the low watt rig, you can then pick it up real cheap on the used and over-saturated market!

[Midwest]

Skilled operators have proven time and again the ability to communicate with QRP. The problems you describe occur when an operator lacking developed skills reads the advertising and other articles and sets himself up for disappointment with low power and low skills. We may not need the Novice Class ticket anymore but we all need to Elmer the new ops on gear that works well for them at low cost. I think it a bad decision for newcomers with limited funds to sink much money into any gear until they get a feel for the hobby and the facets that they enjoy best. 73,

[wb9hnj]

Hhahahaha exactly!! Like buying a car...buy good used...it has the bugs found and fixed and the price is right!! One can brew up a simple amp witha pair of 6146's for almost nothing and have a nice 100w radio too!

[K4QHM]

Rick, I hate to disappoint you, but I am zero beat with your assessment overall. 73, DennisK4QHM

[DocRF]

Mostly good comments Lou, but one question...

How many FT-817 owners actually built it themselves?

All the FT-817 owners I know bought the rig, and the antenna, and the keyer paddle, and the microphone - they might have built a cable to connect things together, but that's all.

But I agree with your main point. One does not purchase a 5W rig to work from the home station the same way you would work with 100W or a kW. You buy an FT-817 so you can have ham radio with you on hikes, on the fishing boat, on the mountain climb, etc.

On the other hand, when I'm doing those things, I have zero desire to have a radio around. But - each to his own.

Doc

[k7ve]

One application of the FT-817 is as the IF for the upper bands (1240 and up).

You should check out KA7OEI (http://www.ussc.com/~turner/ft817pg.shtml)'s page for a few applications.

[n2ojq]

I was amazed at what the FT-817 can do. One Saturday last Spring, my friend, WA4YGG went into the Appalachian Mountains near Franklin NC with his FT-817, a laptop battery, and a lightweight dipole. I was camping in the woods of central Georgia, near Conyers at a Boy Scout Camp with my family. I was probably several hundred miles from him. I brought my trusty Alinco DX-70, a gell-cell battery, and an identical dipole (more on the antenna later).We had previously arrainged a sked on 40 meters.

I hung my antenna about 40 feet in the air as a 40 meter inverted V. I fired up the Alinco, gave a call on SSB and there he was! I then reduced my output to 10 watts (low setting on the Alinco) and he was running his full output of 5 watts. We carried on for close to an hour with 10 dB over S9 signals on each end!

I agree, with a whip we probably would not have a chance, but with a simple dipole, the results can amaze you!

The antennas we use are the lightweight dipole avaiable from:


<A>http://www.radiobugs.com</A>


It weighs 9 ounces, will handle 100 watts, and adjusts for all bands from 6 meters to 80 meters!! (I am working on a 160 mod for mine!)


This is an essential piece of gear for any Portable and/or QRP operator (IMHO). It is one of the best pieces of Ham gear I own!

YMMV!

N2OJQ


See you all at Dayton 2002!!

[DocRF]

The FCC rules won't allow an external amplifier to be sold (marketed, as the rules say) for this rig.

The only reason Elecraft can offer the 100W option for the K2 is because the amp fits inside the rig, thus satisfying the "as designed" condition.

And, believe me, we should be thankful that there won't be an amplifier option, and we should discourage anybody from putting this rig on an amplifier.

According to the ARRL test results, this rig's transmitter is the dirtiest one available from the major manufacturers. The phase noise and broadband noise floor are actually worse than the Kenwood TS-2000, which established a new "worst case" for RF performance. Also, the spectral displays of the transmitter show a huge number of spurious responses - each one is below the FCC mandated 60dB down, but there are so many of them!

Also, the "break" envelope on the CW waveform is far too abrupt, and the rig generates horrendous keyclicks.

When operated at 5W and into marginal antennas, the garbage created by this rig's transmitter doesn't cause too many problems. But when placed on an efficient full-size antenna, and with an amplifier, it will cause great QRM on the bands.

This rig was designed for portable operation, and that is what it should be restricted to. I happen to enjoy using the rig, but I am fully aware of its limitations. I never connect it to my beam at 70 feet, and I promise to never connect it to an amplifier. That would be just plain bad operating practice.

73,

Doc

[ag4dg]

I'm curious: What makes the FT-817 better than the FT-100 and Icom 706MK2G? The latter two seem to be just like the FT-817 but offer up to 100W power. Can't QRPers just crank down the power?

[KA7IEN]

You will find all the above at the Navy transmitter station down the road from me. Rumor has it that you will glow in the dark after working there for a few weeks. Guess the Navy never cared much for the QRP thing...

I own both an FT 100D and an 817. They are both fine radios, but they are used for different things.



The 100D is a great mobile rig, but you wouldn’t want to backpack with it. It’s a bit big for that, and requires too much power. Further, if you’re QRP hardcore, the 100D won’t give you the predictable output you would want.



The 817 is also great to take out of town. Just pop it into a carry-on with some wire or something (like the neat-o SuperAntenna), and you’re ready to rock. Again, the 100D is a bit bulky for that. It’s great on HF, and is also fun sitting in the rental car, plugged into the cigarette lighter for 2m/70cm.



‘Don’t wanna get into the QRP vs. QRO debate. It’s all good, Bro. But, I keep finding more and more uses for the 817.



Peter Baskind, AG4KI

[N5MDL]

The FT-817 is not a big rig. It was never designed to match the ability of a 100 watt radio. What it is ...pure fun. I have worked over 35 countries since I received it as a late Christmas Gift. The antenna I use is a dipole that I made from 16 gague speaker wire, a piece of Radio Shack cable and some squeeze-on lugs. Total cost about $9.00. I string it in my living room from two curtain rods. What could be easier? No I can't bust pile-ups...but with patience I can usually get a call back when I say QRP. Most DX stations are amazed that I can work them with such a simple low power setup. The nice thing is that I can put a power supply, radio, antenna and manual all in a SMALL camera bag. The FT-817 does not need all the stuff listed for sale to enhance it's performance. Just a wire antenna and a little excitment. The great thing about it is that you can take it with you wherever you go. I use it as a mobile rig with a mag-mount CB antenna cut down just a bit. I have a 1.1 or better SWR!. I can switch it from one car to another in just a couple of minutes. The FT-817 is not for everone..but for me it works just fine.

[W9JCM]

Your right on the money. It isnt better. Its a good rig but why buy a rig that maxs out at 5 watts?? Get the 706/ft100 and turn the the PO down. I think its a waste of money from a econmic standpoint. These other 2 rigs are bigger but not tons. And 100 watts could save ur butt someday when the peewee 5 watts leaves u screaming at the rig. Hey qrp is great but just turn down the rigs po and ur qrp turn it up your 100watts out. Hands down sense to me.

[KD7KUN]

I don't think that the 817 will be a fad, it is too good of a radio to just fall by the wayside. I've had my Tech ticket for just over a year and the 817 was the second rig that I have bought. While I study for my code and general tests it allows me to listen in on those bands that I aspire to use. I bought this radio for its portablity (to take it on hikes or bike rides while keeping the weight down) and to use for digital communications. I also look forward to the challange of making QRP contacts! For myself, I am rather leery of purchasing the high powered rigs for fear of becoming like some of the operators that I have heard...using way too much power for thier contact (I thought the FCC rules were to use the MINIMUM amount of power required for communication). I'm sure that I will be some 100w rig in the future but for now I look forward to staying in the QRP range.

You're right, most people don't get the eseence of the FT-817. It's a backpack rig! It's not a home rig with less power, it's a backpack rig.

But Yaesu didn't get it, either. For a backpack rig, it sucks way too much power on receive. And it does cost too much.

What are better backpack rigs? I can think of two rigs that draw less power on RX AND TX, and are offered at the right price. The Ten-Tec Argonaut, no longer in production. A beautiful radio, with FAR better RF performance than the FT-817. Sure, it was HF only, but it did HF well, which the '817 does not. I think the Argonaut was 5W, but maybe it was 15W, not sure.

Also the Elecraft K1. They understand that backpacking means low power consumption. A quad-band K1 is a MUCH better backpack rig than an FT-817.

Elecraft's K2 is an interesting paradox. Because it has a low-power mode where it draws less current than the FT-817, that makes it a better backpack rig. But it's more expensive (equally optioned) than an FT-817. But it's also high-performance (good RF IMD, etc), in fact, it competes with Yaesu's lofty FT-1000 for pure RF chutzpah. So what is a K2? An overpriced backpack rig? A bargain high performance competition-grade rig? I'm not sure...

For backpacking, you want: 1) Small. 2) low power consumption 3) Good RF performance 4) Low price (theft is a genuine concern for backpackers)

The FT-817 satisfies only condition 1. The Argonaut and K2 satisfy ALL of them.

Yes, the hobby should be more fun than work. Spending $600 for a rig that's horrible at the home station and only moderately good at portable operation isn't fun.

I'm glad the choice is available. It helps a lot of people really re-think why they'd want a rig like that.

MB

There's something wrong with the FT817, I don't know what it is. There are a few hams living in my city who use them regularly. I damned well know when they're on the same band I am because I can hear them 50kHz away from the keyclicks. Guys 5 miles from me on stubbly little portable antennas, turning in S9 signals, also generate S7 keyclicks 50kHz away. ALL of them do. Something's wrong. I can't imaging putting that signal through an amplifier.

You're right.

Battery life is too short for QRO - such as the QRO current consumption of the FT-817 receiver.

You can tell the sound of an FT-817 operator by the number of battery changes he goes through during a 24 hour period of operation. Not because of the transmitter, but because of the receiver.

QRP is fun and easy, yes. But so is QRO. And QRO is cheaper, given the availability of used rigs with better RF performance than the 817.

Glad to see somebody else bothers to read the product test reports. This rig is an embarrassment to the ham community. Anybody who buys one demonstrates no more respect for his fellow band-users than the average CB operator.

"Must be a good rig. Nobody complained."

Problem is, it sucks batteries on receive like a bigger rig. So what's the benefit.

Take that $9 antenna, and connect it to a good used $200 25W 10 meter rig, and you'll do better for less. Mobile with the same 25 watt rig, and you'll do better. And you'll have money left over to pay for the QSL cars for the DX you'll work.

Getting people to answer you by signing /QRP is like asking for money on the street corner. I can run 1watt and get plenty of replies, and I NEVER sign /QRP.

If I'm using QRP, it's because I chose to do so, and I certainly do not expect anybody to give me extra respect, or be more willing to call me, because I made that choice.

I guess if you have two cars to switch between, then the exhorbitant price of the '817 isn't too daunting for you.

MB

Well, it already has. FT-817 is cute but with the same capabilities, maybe even with more, you have FT-100D and if you are into base rigs, FT-847 is still there and these two are around same prices, a little higher than FT-817. Both give you 100W at HF and quite a considerable power at V/UHF.

So I believe you are right about QRP fad, FT-817 is cute but useless unless you are hooked on QRP. But there are many who likes to go around and use HF.

[w1ou]

Rick makes some valid points, but I suspect the interest in the FT-817 will be high for quite a while. I frequently run max power to 6 element yagi array on a high tower when appropriate to bag a new DXCC counter in a pileup, but have found a great change of pace in playing with the minimal power and antenna toys. Particularly nice to travel with, as not having to lug tons of extra wires, power supplies and other junk to the Carribean for a scuba trip is a treat.

No flames here, I just think this particular radio offers a great balance of performance and overall ease of use that gives easy access to yet another facet of the hobby.

[Chris]

Good couple of postings here. Humor goes a long way!

[ke0vh]

I just wish someone would put out a radio that we could afford. Great Radio, lots of fun, but I don't know when if ever I can afford the prices.

[n8emr]

Keep em comming. They make nice IF's fro driving transverters.

[jsps999]

One of the previous comments stated that most 100W rigs can be attenuated down to 5 watts. I would strongly suggest that before laying out the bucks for a FT-817 with some of those accessories, that one first throttles down a regular 100 tranceiver to 5 watts for about 3 months. Then, for those 3 long months force yourself to CONSISTANTLY operate the same modes and HF bands as you usually have in the past. You'll either like consistant QRP operation or you won't. There is no middle ground here. Choose wisely.
--John, K8JS

HI! Good point. I guess the only hams who built an FT817 themselves are the ones who work on the assebly line at Yaesu. I guess I brought up the homebrewing aspect of QRP in general defense to the comment, "life's too short for QRP."

I completely understand your point about not wanting to have a radio around when roughing it. Some times I do and sometimes I don't.

Lou W7DZN

[KC0JB]

Lets not forget the added benefit of being able to save yourself (and any neighbors) big bucks at the vet when you aim the stacked monobanders at the neighborhood pet population. ZOT! Instant spay/neuter! Bob Barker would be proud!

[K2WH]

"I am rather leery of purchasing the high powered rigs for fear of becoming like some of the operators that I have heard...using way too much power for thier contact (I thought the FCC rules were to use the MINIMUM amount of power required for communication)" <DIV>

How does a non-participant who is just listening to another QSO determine way too much power is being used by others for the contact?

I am amazed that hams consistently make this statement when they are not party to the conversation.

Propagation determines the minimum amount of power required for communications. This could be 1 watt to 1.5kw. Depends on the propagation. If someone is 5/9+ at your location, he may only be S1 at anothers.

If you are not the ham carrying on the contact you cannot possibly know how much power is required to make the contact from his listening point. A ham with a 5 element yagi running 100 watts vs. a ham with a simple vertical or dipole would need to (in order to be competitive), run higher power 1000 watts. If you are a third party listening to this from a distant location, you cannot make this statement. Power levels are not in the eye of the beholder, is in the eye of the operator himself!
</DIV>

[WA3WDK]

I just saw this discussion as I was looking up a G3 I had talked to last night and just had to jump in. I'm a licensed ham for 30-years, the last 25 of which I was on vacation. When I decided to come back, I was saddened to see how much things had changed. No Heathkit, the local hamfest is gone, the local ham store is closed and what's with all those new callsigns? KQ, NA, KA, KK, etc. Where did all that come from? Then I found the FT-817. Everything in a package the size of a paperback. $13 for 110 feet of wire and I'm talking to G3land, PY, 4X4, EI and about 30 states in all directions. Just like the thrill I had when I built my first Heathkit in '72. And many contacts have told me I could be proud of the results I was getting. And guess what? I don't care if I can't crash through every pileup with all you guys running 1000W with towers and beams. It's my time, my money and my fun. Why do you care how I spend any of it? I'm having a blast. Each contact is a thrill and I get plenty of 59s. And surprise, surprise I do get through many pileups and I never say QRP when I'm calling. The fun comes after I've made the contact and I say I'm only running 5 watts. Or 2.5. I love the sound of surprise I can hear in their voices through all of YOUR QRM. Life is too short, but not for QRP. Life is full of choices. Let everyone make the choice that is best for them and stop worrying about what the other guy does. Best to everyone.

[AA8EK]

Amen brother!
I hate QRP, I don't run it and I hate like heck to have to copy it. Give me a kilowatt on 40 meters with my CW any day of the week.Most of the hams that run QRP are on the transmitting side of the signal, I am the one with the headache of trying to copy that piddley arse station, while he brags that he worked the world on a milliwatt. He didn't do it! I did it, because I was the one busting my tail to copy it. Give me QRO and arm chair copy any day of the week so I can enjoy my hobby.
You know what I like, when I kick on that amp, start keying up and all the lights in the house go dim. And if I am really getting out the neighbors automatic garage door opener will kick in and his door will go up and down everytime I transmit.
Amen and please, crank up that amplifier so I can copy you. And yes, we will see all kinds of these for sale on e-bay here in a year or two, and they won't be worth squat.

[wd4oay]

I have an old yaesu FT-101E that I use mainly on 10 Meters (100-150 Watts) and a Radio Shack HTX-10 mobile rig (25 watts Max). I am consistently now getting better reports with the Radio Shack setup on a mobile whip that with the yaesu at full power with a 10M dipole mounted apx 30 ft up. I know that the Yaesu is older and probably needs to be tuned up somewhat but it is interesting how many people in different countries receive me better on the low power radio shack rig.

[WB8VGE]

Well thanks to the FCC, you can't sell (legal) an add on amplifier to for the radio. Although you can really surprise yourself sometimes with what you can do with 2 watts of RF into a antenna. If qrp is not your thing, that's fine. Try SSTV or PSK31. Even with all that ham radio has to offer, it can get boring very quickly. Cellphones, internet, instant messages, who really needs the hassle on 75 meters? Or The name calling on 20 meters? I guess that's why I don't have a $3000 radio. That's a lot of money to spend just to have some old fart on 75 meters tell me not to call CQ because it's his frequency since 1932. It's a catch 22. No one will talk to you on the phone bands unless you are part of the group. but you can't get to be part of the group unless they talk to you. Yes, at times like this ham radio can be very boring.

[wb2tqc]

Hmmmm I don't know what the fraternity is thinking but when I'm working QRP I want Somebody/Anybody to answer me. I work a hand pump mostly and you could get awful tired waiting on another QRP station to answer you. And then what's the point? I thought the excitement of QRP was how well you could do with a low power transmit. Receiving the signal of another QRP station only means I can "hear" fairly well. There are some QRO stations out there that come in pretty low too. (Hi) -- Just my 2 cents

[W5KRM]

Rick,

I have the 817 and I bought it to use in emergency situations, for camping, back packing, just plain fun, and that it is. Sure, it isn't a 100W cranked down, but looking at some of the 100W units that can "crank" down still drain batteries quickly due to receive current draw, plus, they aren't very small for portable use (I mean trully portable).

Sure, you can take a 746 "portable", but I don't want to carry one around with a DC supply or car battery. The 817 and other low power rigs can run off Gel Cells, or other battery packs. The 746, 840, etc., cannot without significant current draw.

For the price, it puts "fun" back into "portable" and the 5 watts isn't bad. I wish they too came out with a "cheap " amp like the FL-100 (??) amp that Yaesu made years ago. Not sure of the designation but I think it was FL-100.

In any case, I can see less justification (for me only) in spending big bucks on dual band HT's over the 817.

GL

[KF4BOT]

Take that $9 antenna, and connect it to a good used $200 25W 10 meter rig, and you'll do better for less.

You can get 25W 10 meter rigs for less than $200. You can get a brand new Radio Shack HTX-10 for $150. Used HTX-10's can be gotten for less on eBay. Even better, get an old SSB CB rig on eBay and convert it to 10 meters. I picked up a Realistic TRC-449 40-channel SSB CB on eBay. The cost was around $50, including shipping. It puts out 20 watts on sideband, 5 watts on AM, and covers the entire 10 meter band. I too made a dipole from 16 G speaker wire from Radio Shack. The power supply, I already had. You don't more than a 3A supply to power that rig. You can power it on a gel cell for field work. So, there you go. A QRP 10m setup for about $70. I have another TRC-449 that I put on 12m.

[AE6FJ]

No flame here Rick; You're right, there are going to be folk that will do it for a while, and move on, and folk that'll do it, like it and stick with it... but this is the case with most any aspect of Amateur Radio. Whether it's CW, PSK-31, PACKET, QRP, Mobile HF, etc.
How many people do we all know (many of us included) that learned enough CW to pass the test at whatever speed for their license, but have never touched a key since? How many have been into PACKET or PSK or whatever other mode, but have since found yourself spending more time doing something else?
What you've described isn't a problem my friend; that's the BEAUTY of our hobby.

[K4TEN]

The Icom IC-718 was $499 at the last hamfest I attended. Scrounge up some wire, a battery/charger or a power supply and you are all set with a very capable station!

I enjoy my FT-817. As my first big investment in Ham radio, wow. I saw the ad and realized it was for me. Solar power Rick, no. Well then 100w must be for you. I do have solar and this is the rig for me. Satellites, 85 grids on 6m in 1 summer, ya FT-817. Hike to mountain tops with your 100w rig lately, no, huum. Enjoy, we all have are favorites, that's why it's called amateur radio.

[n3wjl]

Well as you know the amp would have to be home brewed. This isn't a problem, Communication Concepts has some boards to get you started.

As for me I'm going to get the FT-100. Why? Well I have a 30watt 10meter radio in my car and with the low power and "small" antenna I have problems. I can't make myself heard too well. With the FT-100 I'll have 100 watts when I need it and I can run it at 10 watts or less from s small battery when camping.

I guess it just comes down to letting the market do its thing. If people don't like the FT-817 and don't buy it then Yeasu will stop making it.

[na4i]

It's easy to determine when you've been over to their house and are a witness to their amplifier abuse. They use the amp every time they turn the rig on.

[w3ce]

I can't speak for anybody else but the FT-817 rekindled my interest in amateur radio.
I was inactive for 10 years. I got tired of throwing money at my station (towers, antenna farm, state of the art rig etc.) I found that I was compeating with stations with bigger beams that were always up higher then mine.

I now have the FT-817 a 66 foot doublet plus tuner, and have never had as much fun as this setup. I am working the world on CW, PSK and yes SSB.

I also do a lot of backpacking and camping and this rig is perfect for that.

Except for a 2 meter handi its the only rig I use, or even want to use.

de W3CE

[ag4hy]

hmmmm!yas, yas sounds like an amp to me, you sure this is for final stage? i was thinking more on the order of primary/first stage power. hmmmm!, yas yas! ha ha ha.
73 ag4hy

[k3ng]

...to respond to people trolling for flames on QRZ.com. Different strokes for different folks. Go operate and have some fun.

:-)

72
Goody
K3NG

[w7av]

Well K3NG, that was a cute remark that added nothing to the discussion. No, I was not looking for flames but with 45 years in this hobby I am sure I would get some and that's OK. I'm not against QRP at all in fact (if you remember with your two letter call) I use to build those International Crystal oscillator's = 50mw and had a great time. Built and operated HW-7 and 8's as well as the first Ten Tec that came out. My entire point was to bring attention to the cost of QRP these days and the high attrition rate that does occur. Yes differnt strokes etc. goes without saying because except for EME, and RTTY I have done it all. My comments have as much right on QRZ.COM as your's. I've learned alot from "trolling for flames", though I've learned nothing from your comments. 72? Rick W7AV

[ka2ddx]

Rick,
I agree with you. It would be nice if the amp could be a module that goes in the rig. 20 or 30 watts would be plenty. Yaesu makes good stuff but the $$$ for this whole thing do add up and for the same money you can buy a 100 watt rig that tunes down to 5 watts. The economics don't make that much sense. But, I'm not the marketing manager..............

[ROBBY521]

I have had my FT817 for about 5 months and I have had 2 contacts with Europe on 15 meters and one Greenland contact on 6 meters. OX3OX told me when I made contact that I was 5.9 into the west coast of Greenland. I hooked my FT 817 to my Cushcraft triband (2M,6M,70cM) and got thru the pile up that had formed.
Recently I spoke to AA1YB on 1-6-02 in Maine when he was using his FT817 for QRP (I was using my FT100). Art was using a Solarcon A99 antenna at 15ft with his FT817.
When I go on vacations I bring my FT817 and my XYL for company.
Who says 5 watts isn't enough power!
KB9VII New Glarus, Wisconsin

[wa3ptg]

...and the only thing that brings it back for me is homebrew qrp cw. I like the challenge. An FT-817 is an interesting rig, but no challenge. SSB is no challenge... I drive over to HRO a couple of times a year to look at the rigs, but no one makes a rig that I want. I like my homemade stuff better. Different strokes...

[k3ng]

OK. I guess I'm getting sucked in to a discussion. Your posting was OK until you got to the "Life is too short..." cliche that QRO folks like to pull when trolling. I bit. But I digress.

The 817 is hardly representative of QRP operation these days. Also consider that in the strictest sense of the term, QRP means "low power", nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't mean cheap, homebrew, or technically substandard. QRP means different things to different people.

If you want to discuss the cost of rigs, I'd suggest that $$$/fun is a better metric than power. Yes, this is very subjective and up for interpretation. Do you get more joy with a $3.5K FT-1000 busting a pileup on the first call with no effort, or a 5W rig costing $800 with some effort and saavy ?

But when you think about it, does it really make sense to spend *any* money on ham radio, when you can call someone across the world on the phone or send them an email ?

But let's address your two main points, the cost of QRP and the high attrition rate. My main QRP rig is a K1, for which I spent $259. My next rig is going to be a homebrew 30 M transceiver. If all goes well, I'll have maybe $15 into it, as I'm going to scavenge most of the parts. QRP is costly ? Really ? Let's talk about the cost of EME or QRO DXing. It seems to me like QRP is a bargain.

And as for the attrition rate issue, QRP clubs and societies continue to grow, arguably at rates that surpass many older established organizations; just look at the membership of some of the major clubs. Granted, this area of the hobby may loose some folks when the sunspot cycle rolls around, but you'll lose a ton of QRO DXers and contesters as well, and perhaps many amateurs in general will go inactive. Where is this high QRP attrition, or is this a prediction ?

Goody

P.S. 72 is a QRP 73

[N8VZ]

Yes, you're right, it's illegal for a commercial manufacture to offer such an amplifier...input must be at least 50, or is it 100, to be legal. You can, however, legally build an amp if you are a license amateur radio operator. Also, a company called CCI (www.communication-concepts.com) will sell you a schematic and the parts to build a 20 watt amplifier (and several others). It's not "officially" a kit, because that would be illegal. It's kind of a fine line. You get the parts, the circuit board, and the schematic, but you have to supply the case. The average CBer can't figure this thing out, so it's effectively limited to hams. CCI, btw, is located in Dayton, Ohio, to it has instant credibility! ; - ) I'm building one of these for my FT-817. A great little radio at five watts on PSK -- and it'll be dynamite with 20 watts! 73 de KA8JXG

[n4kz]

The negativity of some people never ceases to amaze me. But that's not limited to ham radio -- it's true in all facets of life. It's just so easy to be negative. I think jealousy and insecurity are often at the root of the problem. Anyway, I have been active on QRP off and on for 30 years. It's great fun and a wonderful challenge. Breaking a DX pile-up on 20m CW with 5W is a great thrill and shows good operating skill. Today, I broke down and ordered an FT-817. I can't wait to get it. A friend asked me why I don't just crank down the power on my IC-706. I've done that. It works fine but frankly the 706 is a big big and heavy for lugging around in a suitcase or backpack. I've had a ton of monoband QRP rigs over the years and wanted something that is multiband and multimode. But calling QRP or rigs like the FT-817 "just a fad" sounds like those AM broadcasters of old who insisted FM stations were just a passing fad or that TV wouldn't last either. Such declarations are silly.
72,
N4KZ
72=Have fun with QRP!

[VK6EN]

Dimmed lights yas yas... Man when hold down my key the led dims especially when the 9v battery is on the way out or the 2N2222a PA (oh alright xtal osc.) is not tuned too well. I jest of course but if you really want to fry that peekinese next door the battleship anchor and 50 acre rhombic just wont do. No no no, get mom's microwave hook up a bit of LDF450 connect a coffee can feed on the 3m satellite dish AND POINT
1KW + 35dB ant gain EIRP just under 100dBw approx 10GigaWatts SMOK'N!!! the only thing it won't do is dim the lights but when they find the ashes you don't want the power company helping the local constablulary to find the cuplrit.

[n8emr]

The 706 draws almost 2 amps on receive. Not the kind of power you want to waste when on battery.

[k3ng]

Good post. The "turn your rig power down" comment that is often said illustrates how many people don't understand the essence of QRP.

Is QRP a fad ? I don't think so, but if it is, it's a beneficial fad. QRP has revived some of the core beliefs and skills that were the foundation of ham radio. One of these is equipment building. People complain about how ham radio has declined into a bunch of appliance operators. A large number of QRP operators have built their own equipment from kits, many homebrew their own rigs from scratch. What other facet of ham radio does this ?

Also consider the technical expertise that this leads to. People complain about the "dumbing down" of ham radio. QRP encourages both technical development and good operating skills.

Last, for some people, including myself, QRP has made CW sexy again. The majority of QRP operation is CW and will continue to be for a long time.

I don't think QRP is a fad, we are just in another "QRP Golden Age" right now. QRP has been around since the beginning of amateur radio. The days of the Ugly Weekender and the Tuna Tin revived it. Doug Demaw's writings encouraged experimentation and got more people interested. And now Elecraft, Norcal, NJ QRP, QRP ARCI, ARS, and numerous other companies and organizations are energizing it. Arguably, the Internet has encouraged QRP participation through the availablity of technical information, "virtual clubs" and communication with others who enjoy QRP. It's a fad that is here to stay. :-)

72
Goody

[w3fsa]

OK, Rick...W7AV, you said you're ready to get blasted ! Well, this isn't intended to be a blast, just another viewpoint.

I do take issue with the generalizations at the end of your article about loosing the thrill of qrp and being stuck with an expensive radio, etc.

I will only add my own experience in my 42 years as a ham. Regardless of whatever QRO rig I've had (and I do still operate QRO .... though only 100w), I've always had an interest in qrp. I still have a little single oscillator 6AG7 2 watt rig I built up from the Handbook in the '60s and it still works. I have several qrp rigs, including a Tuna Tin II good for about 350mw .... now there's a rig that you'd probably think is a waste of time ! I also own an Elecraft K2, which I now use about 80% of the time and is a super little radio. I typically run it at 5 watts so I'm legitimately qrp.

I'll also admit that I looked at the Yaesu 817 and felt it just had more bells and whistles than I would use. I've never had an interest in anything other than HF.

Of course, the K2 is not inexpensive either ....and, then you have to put it together !

For the record, I work qrp about 50% mobile and 50% fixed. When mobile I operate about 80% cw though my 20% of ssb operation is also usually productive and fun .... even on 20M !

I can honestly say that I've "worked the world" with 5 watts and no fancy antennas. Mobile I've used a Hustler for 35 yrs and fixed I use a G5RV or other 'haywire' antennas if I'm camping or in a hotel. I'd have to say that qrp has made me more sensitive to operating practices, has made me a better cw operator (yes, it's still relevant !), and has made me a better listener. These are not bad things !

Some folks think that qrpers sit around calling cq for hours until they make a contact. I've never had that experience, from any location. I must admit that I have a sort of pride when telling people that I'm running 5 watts and they're surprised. I won't list the DX cards that are in my qrp pile, but it's an impressive pile.

What all this adds up to, for me, is that our wonderful hobby of ham radio has room for all interests. Surely, manufacturers are going to take advantage of some marketing opportunities and this happens to be a time when qrp is 'hot'. However, I will be one to continue to find a 'thrill' in making low power HF contacts all over the world.

I look forward, Rick, to working you and others who may read this note.

73's, John, W3FSA

[K2WH]

I disagree. When one is trying to make weak signal contacts, CW is a much better and an EASIER mode of making the contact.


Under the same band conditions (you know this), CW will get through when SSB will not. So, therefore, SSB presents a much more daunting challenge trying to make the same contact.


Try W.A.S. on 160 meters with a low dipole on 160 meters vs. the same thing on CW. Bet CW makes it much easier. Perhaps want you wanted to say is one must learn CW to use CW therefore, the pain and difficulty is already factored in.

[KD5NRH]

If you're bored with it, you're more than welcome to ship it to me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Personally, I like the idea for the same reason I like owning a VHF/UHF HT even though it's limited to 5W; I don't like lugging heavy batteries around. An FT-100 is fine for the car, but it, and its power source, are awfully heavy for a 10 mile hike.

[WF0H]

I've read this topic with great interest because I am wrestling with whether or not to buy the FT-817.

I am rather alarmed at the RF performance issues raised here - it does sound like connecting it to an amplifier, at least on HF, would be a pretty fast way to become unpopular. (By the way, the 2002 ARRL Handbook has a great looking 40W amp design for HF...). I suppose it wouldn't help to shunt the key leads with capacitors like back in the days of thermionic emissions. I may take a pass until somebody comes up with a fix for that.

I'm much more interested in the receiver than the transmitter on HF. It would be wonderful for tracking down interference in the neighborhood. I could see using this as a packset on VHF and UHF, and it would make a great IF for microwave transverters. But I would like to use it on CW and PSK31 when we're camping.

I also have a 706 MKII, but I've only used it mobile once since I've had it. Since it is my primary HF rig, I'm a little afraid of injuring it. I am planning to buy a new 746 for the home station, and upgrade the 706. Maybe I will be less worried about the 706 getting ripped off that way.

Guess I'll need to consider the other options like
the Elecrafts. You can't run a 706 portable on a lantern battery for very long, and it would be fun to build the kits. Of course, I still have my ancient HW-8 - maybe I'll just resurrect it.

[n1fn]

>>How well do those 5 watter's get out on 20
meters SSB with a short whip---not too far I would guess.<<

Somebody was sleeping through the chapter on RF power. The other side of that question is "how much better will they do with 100W." #It's not a QRP fad or fanaticism, it's a law of physics. #Increase power from 5W to 100W and your signal will go up a tad over 2 S-points at the other end. #If you're running 100W and the guy gives you an S-9 report, you will drop to S-7 if you reduce power to 5W. #

Besides, if you're looking for effective gain, you COULD always switch to CW and pick up a handy 15-18dB. 5W CW from an 817 or any other radio will beat 100W of SSB anytime.

It's a simple fact that adding power is the least effective way to improve your signal. #If you're disappointed in your results with 5W and a "short whip" you'll get a lot more bang for the buck by improving the antenna rather than increasing power.

>>LIFE IS TOO SHORT FOR QRP-----is a statement that has some truth in it.<<

If there is ANY truth in it (and I don't think there is), there is far more truth in the statement that "Life's too short for $800 finals."

Life is too short for QRP?? No I won't bite on that, but if you really believe that, then you have my sincerest sympathy.

No flames, but it seems that you missed the point with the FT-817. I currently have several rigs, including an FT-817, but have never owned an amp. I wouldn't trade mine - until there's a better model available - and that doesn't mean higher power. I will also keep my 100w rigs, of course. They both fit into my enjoyment of the hobby.

I travel quite a bit and carrying a rig is a real pain with customs and airline security. My FT-817, with a paddle, tuner and reel antenna, goes right in the case with my laptop computer and attracts little attention in airports, etc. When I arrive, string up the antenna, plug a couple cables, and I'm on the air, SSB, CW, PSK31.

What do I work? So far I've worked about 30 countries and about 30 states, 90 total QRP QSO's, with my FT-817 since November 2001 from Venezuela. (In comparison, I worked 1680 QSO's 87 countries, 48 states, and on 6 m 127 grid squares with my 100w rigs from here during the last year.) I get some 339 and 449 reports on CW, but that happens with my other rigs, too. I get lots of 559, and better reports on CW, too. Those are on bands from 40 up to 10 meters. And many of the contacts were nice ragchews. I've also handled several minor pileups on 17 and 30 meters with the little rig. If the signal is so bad, how could I attract a pileup?

I managed to work the VP8 DXpedition this last week with the little rig, too. I don't believe the 599 report I got, but he was about 559 here and I got through on the first call. It helped to have caught 'em calling CQ, of course. By the time I had hooked up the antenna to the other rig, it would've been too late to get through with 100w.

BTW, there's very little 2m and 70cm activity down here, so I use it exclusively on HF and 6m. Due to the high QRN levels, I've never made an 80 or 160m contact from here - on any rig.

Antenna? Well I do have a 6 ft homebrew vertical made from a Radio Shack telescoping whip inside the apartment. It works OK on 6 to 20 meters. Usually I use either a 20m dipole strung in the apartment or the Radio Shack reel antenna when I'm on the go, all with a little tuner. Would I like a better antenna? You bet! But that isn't going to happen anytime soon, so I make do.

On PSK the little rig works fine, too. I've experimented with several people on the air and have successfully maintained Q5 ragchew contacts with 1 watt or less on 20m and higher frequencies.

The receiver doesn't work as good as my Drake R8B, but it's passable for listening. It keeps me from carrying a separate SWL rx when I travel. I used to carry a Sangean portable, but the FT-817 is smaller and I can do more than listen.

Will I get bored with it? Well, my first QRP contact was as a novice in 1971 with a xtal oscillator I was building hooked up to a light bulb as a dummy load on 40m. I sent a CQ playing around and someone actually answered me about 100 miles away. It's 31 years later and I'm still doing it. No, I don't think I'll get bored with QRP real soon.

Would I buy (or build) an amp for it? No way!
Will it replace my big rigs? Only when I want it to!
Is QRP a passing whim? 31 years worth and counting!
Do I regret having the 817? Heck no, if I knew how well it worked, I would have bought one sooner!

I'm sorry that others aren't able to get as much enjoyment out of QRP and hamming on the go as I and others do. That's really a shame, but to each his own. As for me, I'll keep my FT-817.

73,

Walt KE5WJ

I agree completly. #Don't get me wrong, I like QRP but I don't have enough money in it to buy a "real" radio.
Low power need not have a QRO price tag. Heck you can build your own ( lost concept? ) for a fraction of the price of the 817 and still have enough to buy something to take out the frustration of QRP out on the neighbor's new sat. TV system!

73 de Craig.......KC0GOA

[KA1CSU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Jan. 29 2002,02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I am rather leery of purchasing the high powered rigs for fear of becoming like some of the operators that I have heard...using way too much power for thier contact (I thought the FCC rules were to use the MINIMUM amount of power required for communication)" <DIV>

How does a non-participant who is just listening to another QSO determine way too much power is being used by others for the contact?

I am amazed that hams consistently make this statement when they are not party to the conversation.

(....................)

Power levels are not in the eye of the beholder, is in the eye of the operator himself!
</DIV>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Since no one else has shed some light for K2WH, here goes....

"QSL Joe, you are 599 and 40 over too. #I am running 500 watts also. #Band conditions are great tonight. #Just heard a guy from out your way at only 599 & s7. #Said he was 2.5 watt QRP on a vertical taking a five mile hike. Looked him up and he is in the next town over from you. #What are you? 300 mi from here? #There is NO QRN today - less than s1, but I am getting slight QRM from someone. Hardly notice it, but could you bump it up to 1 KW? #I am sure that will squash the QRM. #And lets make sure our 5 element beams are right on target.... yes, mine is right at you. #How about yours?"

Up to the "300 miles from here" it was just like a QSO I heard on HF the other night! #Ok, so I carried it a bit far after that point.

All you have to do is listen and you can hear the reports from both sides, such as they are. #(times the reports are incorrect as in You are 599, but could you repeat you name, QTH & signal report for the third time?)

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. #And most know when it is being abused, in part because abusers often try to hide it. #And yes, dissagreements will occur regardless.

[rwmcgwier]

Well, in the form of "your mileage may vary", I am back operating ham radio because of the FT-817. #I have 50+ countries, 23 states on CW, and PSK31 is really filling up my operating time even more. #I am using a Minibac, backpackers antenna, even when at home. #It is a real thrill. #I am getting a better antenna for home. #I have
the radio computer controlled, CW filters, battery pack, #Z11 autotuner, etc. #It is just a blast!

Try it!

Bob N4HY

[N9TGW]

After sitting back and reading this entire thread I find I can not help but make a few comments.
First and foremost :
WHO CARES how much someone else pays for their rig(s), are they spending YOUR money?
Second:
this sounds like the typical bigger is better arguement. There was a time that if you had all that extra power it was because you could AFFORD to pay for it.
I am not happy with the current state of the hobby because it has gone #down the same road as performance cars, they dont show any skill, just ability to spend money. There once was a time when it was a measure of a persons ability to build a station, much the same as #building a street rod. You took the time to fine tune everything, now you just buy it.
Third: although this is the last point it is something that we all need to address if we want our hobby to survive.
WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH ALL THE SNOBBISH ELITEISM?
You people (you know which ones you are) are doing everything to destroy the hobby. At a time when we need to lock arms and defend the band spread from commercial poaching you are feeding the #arguement that we dont need the bands allocated to us.
Instead of badmouthing a mfg for making a rig that has a full line of accessories why arent you out there showing a group of youngsters how easy it is to get on the air with inexpensive equipment. Help them build an interest that will eventually give them the knowledge to wisely choose that once in a lifetime big buck rig when they can afford one.
We arent here to #call names we are here to advance knowledge and have fun doing it
Scott
N9TGW

[N0YVW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA1CSU @ Feb. 07 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Jan. 29 2002,02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"How does a non-participant who is just listening to another QSO determine way too much power is being used by others for the contact?

I am amazed that hams consistently make this statement when they are not party to the conversation.


</DIV>[/i][/B][/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Since no one else has shed some light for K2WH, here goes....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, here's my tale of "how you can tell."

Field Day 1994...I was a pretty new Tech+, so before Field Day started, one of the Extras in our club was showing me HF & letting me operate the rig with him as the Control Op.

Down on 75m, we came across a QSO that was pegging the S-meter. #One of the guys made it clear he was down in Florida, they had both just purchased the same model amp, both stated they were running about 1000 watts out.

At the close of the QSO, one of the two said to the other, "So, Joe, you want me to come on over and help you put up that new antenna?"

"Sure."

"OK, see you in about 15 minutes."

I turned to my Elmer and said, "I thought Part 97 said you've got to use 'minimum necessary power?'"

He just shrugged. #"Different people have different opinions of 'minimum necessary power.'"

That's a way you can tell.

[KA1CSU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9TGW @ Feb. 08 2002,21:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After sitting back and reading this entire thread I find I can not help but make a few comments. <..... First.....Second..... etc>

Scott
N9TGW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well said Scott!

[map4jc]

Actually, not slamming you. I looked at that radio, and though, "Wow! That's pretty cool. Maybe I'd like one of those." After reading your post, though, I thought better of it. Like you, I'd like to see a unit like that with MORE POWER than a lowly 5w. And I'm BRAND NEW to FCC Amateur radio -- was CAP for a few years and heard some radio speak that flew over my head it was so technical. So...thank you, too, for putting that in readable terms!

Mark

[KD4TOQ]

I have three different HF radios, IC 706, Kenwood TS2000, and the little Yazzzo 817. I have more pure "fun" with the 817. The 706 is great for my long drives back and forth to work, the TS2000 is a fabulous radio. My operating habits are very different from a lot, I don't DXCC, I don't even keep a log, I don't QSL card, and I don't contest. I PLAY with my radios. The 817 is more fun to play with. I do take one aspect of ham radio seriously, and that is emergency work. I dodge a lot of hurricanes here in NC. I have built an emergency comm package around the 817. It all fits into a roll around carry on type tool case. The only part not in the tool case is a large battery that I use if I need to go to high power with my pocket amp, which gives me 60 watts. I built this setup from the experience gained sitting in a motel room while riding out storms. It works, I can operate with the little rig for 3 or four days on the battery capacity that I have. That type of use is mostly listening to hear what is going on. It can be picked up with one hand and carried or the handle can be extended and you can roll it around the airport. Anyway it gives me a complete station that fits into an airline carryon type package. I have a lot of fun, (and spend a lot of money...hi hi) trying to make it as compact and versatile as possible. What it all boils down to is what you want to do with the ham hobby. I read a couple of Yahoo groups concerning the 817, one of them is people who "walk" around with their radios, outside, carrying dipoles on sticks. I get the impression they are having a blast... Now, as soon as I can buy a new tiny laptop I will squeeze it into my case with the 817 and I can work PSK31 from my tool case...............Hi..Hi

[KD5SYH]

Some people, including new hams like me, are forced to operate QRP because of RFI problems that simply won't go away no matter what you do. I would know.

TNX & 73's,
Fabian C.
KD5JDG