New to DXing, which Kenwood rig to get?

[KC0BUS]

I'm new to the world of DXing and was wondering what the minimum HF rig would be for true DXing over the remaining current sunspot cycle in the Kenwood lineup (both old and new models)? I already know I want a Kenwood for its legendary audio quality. ;)

Thank you
KC0BUS

[WM3O]

why does it have to be a Kenwood radio? DX could care less about "legendary audio quality". you want a radio that performs well in saturated band conditions and can hear the weak ones.

[NN3W]

I hear people like the 590s. Besides that, my opinion is none of them (unless you go into the wayback machine and find a good TS-930).

[N2RJ]

I hear people like the 590s.

Amazing for a rig that hasn't been released yet!!!

I wonder what the performance numbers will be?

[KB2FCV]

Amazing for a rig that hasn't been released yet!!!

I wonder what the performance numbers will be?

I'm pretty sure the 590s has been out for a while now.. perhaps you're thinking about the 990s? (Get that one!!:cool:)

Actually I've heard lots of good things about the 590's, a friend of mine has one and loves it. I've been told it is quite comparable to the K3.

The more important question though should not be about the radio, it is about the antenna. What antenna to get? The antenna makes or breaks the station.

[WM3O]

The antenna makes or breaks the station.

we can't all have beams on towers. a good radio will improve even a simple dipole antenna setup. i wouldn't get an Icom 7800 but something like a used 756PROIII would be a huge step up from an Icom 751A. there are parallels for Yeasu and Kenwood...

[WM3O]

Amazing for a rig that hasn't been released yet!!!

I wonder what the performance numbers will be?

seems Universal is selling them

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0590.html

See QST May 2011 for a review of this radio.

[WB2WIK]

I'm new to the world of DXing and was wondering what the minimum HF rig would be for true DXing over the remaining current sunspot cycle in the Kenwood lineup (both old and new models)? I already know I want a Kenwood for its legendary audio quality. ;)

Thank you
KC0BUS

The TS-590S is available new for reasonable cost. The brand new TS-990 isn't on the market yet and nobody knows when it will be: They're supposed to "unveil" it for the first time at Dayton later this month. But it may not be for sale until the end of the year.

For older rigs, the TS-850S is very good. Even older, the TS-830S was a great hybrid rig (3 tubes, the rest all solid state).

[KC2ZPK]

My TS-940 works ok, no DSP though. Seems to hear much better then I can send.

[N0AZZ]

The current lineup of new Kenwood base station radio's leave a lot to be desired for a DX setup. I had a TS-590s for a short while and sold it thought it would be a nice radio for my Motor Home and Field Day use but didn't like the radio and the lack of a second receiver killed it for a DX radio.

You did not post a price point and new or used but there are a lot of very nice and better preforming radios than the Kenwoods from Yaesu and Icom. I own all 3 brands and quite a few use a mobile for a base radio for instance the Kenwood TS-480HX a 200w mobile that I have in my SUV. It is the only 200w mobile radio out there and a HF/6m it makes a great mobile I love it but a DX rig not.

Post a price and it would be more helpful in making suggestions that fit that end and also if that price includes an antenna or not it's 80+% of a DX station if not more.

[N5MOA]

The current lineup of new Kenwood base station radio's leave a lot to be desired for a DX setup. .............. and the lack of a second receiver killed it for a DX radio.

......... for instance the Kenwood TS-480HX a 200w mobile that I have in my SUV. It is the only 200w mobile radio out there and a HF/6m it makes a great mobile I love it but a DX rig not.



Really? From 2008 to today:

mixed 307 302 confirmed
phone 294
cw 290
data 225

160m 37
80m 131
40m 245
30m 141
20m 289
17m 252
15m 253
12m 219
10m 225


Through May of 2010 was with wire antennas.

Yep. The TS-480 sucks as a dx rig.:p

Sometimes I wonder where your comments come from, Fred. The whiz bang radios are "nice", I suppose, but not necessary.

[KC0BUS]

Okay, I'm thinking $1,200 or less.

[WA4FNG]

Let's see, I'm using a 25 year old Ten Tec Corsair II -- worked over 200 countries during past 6 months. Works pretty good for DX. Would like to have a new radio, but this one is doing OK for me.
73, Milt

[KJ4VTH]

TS-590s is current production a really nice radio. DX? I am adding another new entity regularly despite the naysayers who claim it falls short of rigs costing twice as much. It is a bit more than your price point. It's worth it.

[N0AZZ]

Really? From 2008 to today:

mixed 307 302 confirmed
phone 294
cw 290
data 225

160m 37
80m 131
40m 245
30m 141
20m 289
17m 252
15m 253
12m 219
10m 225


Through May of 2010 was with wire antennas.

Yep. The TS-480 sucks as a dx rig.:p

Sometimes I wonder where your comments come from, Fred. The whiz bang radios are "nice", I suppose, but not necessary.


Well let's put it this way so you can understand number 1 check all current radio reviews and see where it stands on the QST, Sherwood and several in Japan, VK, EU they all show the same. #2 I had my new TS-480HX in my bench on a 5 way Bird 74 coax switch all radios being fed to a Mosley Pro-67C3 10-40m and compare them. A FTDX-5000MP, IC-9100, IC-703 Plus with W4RT duel filter setup and a RFSPACE SDR with the TS-480HX and compare them on various weak signals using SSB and Digital modes mainly RTTY,PSK-31,JT65HF. All RTTY contacts were true FSK all Digital modes using a microHAM microKEYER II for comparison.

As far as receivers the 480HX it did have both filters the SSB and CW was close to the bottom most of the time but in 2 instances it rose above the IC-703 Plus. This was something I do with every new radio I purchase to see if it's better than what I have. The TS-480HX is a great mobile radio as I stated I like it better than my IC-7000 plus another 100w larger buttons and easier for me to see. It was the very best radio for my purpose.

Will it work as a base radio sure it will and make contacts any radio will and you can get away without an amp for while with 200w and a really good antenna the key for working any good DX. It can be purchased for $1025 is what I paid for mine a lot of bang for the buck for a HF/6m radio but in the same price range a FT-950 would be a better choice for a DX radio for the receiver only. I have nothing against the 480 I just stated the facts as I checked them out against other radios ranging from a 703 used for $500 up to a FTDX-5000MP at $6000 for the price a very good deal for a mobile.

[N5MOA]

Fred, I was just pointing out the lack of a second receiver doesn't "kill" a radio as a dx rig.

More radios don't have one than do.

[W6OGC]

I think you can work DX with just about any radio. What you will have a bit more challenge doing is handling huge pile ups with lesser rigs for the really exotic ones.

It won't matter though, if you don't have the very best antenna(s) you can possibly arrange for. You won't be able to compete no matter how great a radio you have.

Old timers taught that for every $100 you spend on radio, $90 should go to the antenna(s), and $10 to the radio, actually $9 to receiving and $1 to transmitting. That is pretty close, I think.

This assumes you have to be a true blue top of the Honor Roll DXer. If not, if you are content with working whatever you can in ordinary conditions, other than the huge pile-ups, you can still have a great deal of fun, wrack up lots of countries and enjoy it enormously, but you won't be able to crack the wall of RF every time.

[W1DQ]

I'm new to the world of DXing and was wondering what the minimum HF rig would be for true DXing over the remaining current sunspot cycle in the Kenwood lineup (both old and new models)? I already know I want a Kenwood for its legendary audio quality.

By personal choice, I only work DX. While I happen to use a Kenwood TS-870, the rig is much less important than other matters when it comes to working DX. As to equipment, place your effort selecting good DX antennas (yagi, vertical, inverted-V, etc.). But in the end it is developing your DX operating skills that will eventually win that QSO.

If you only rely on having a stronger signal with greater punch, there will always be competing stations that can drown you out. You need to avoid straight-on brute force matches.

It is important to select the right band and the right time of the day. Either inspect the bands yourself or monitor the spots on a DX Cluster website. If there is no propagation you will not work DX, so you have to track it down.

Next it is a matter of positioning yourself frequency-wise and timing your call. Look for stations calling CQ or those working another who are about to sign off. If more than just you are calling, try to time your call to “slip in between” the others or even after them. The DX station is more likely to respond to a call clearly heard than to remain listening to a pileup.

If a DX station is working up, it becomes very important to posture yourself where it is listening or to anticipate where it might be listening should it be tuning higher or lower after each QSO.

Finally, consider operating CW where the chances of being heard in a pileup are significantly greater than phone, due to bandwidth, and where the weakest of signals can make it through. Finally, up-grade to Extra to access frequencies that are restricted only for Extras.

[WA4OTD]

I have a TS130S and for DX it stinks, RIT for offset just about kills DX efforts. Most DX works split. The CW filter and general receiver performance are ok. I use an IC746 at home and it is ok for split DX. Dual VFOs would be nice. Filters, noise blankers, DSP processing, etc enable you to optimize the signal. IT is pretty basic there but works.

[KE4KY]

Really? From 2008 to today:

mixed 307 302 confirmed
phone 294
cw 290
data 225

160m 37
80m 131
40m 245
30m 141
20m 289
17m 252
15m 253
12m 219
10m 225


Through May of 2010 was with wire antennas.

Yep. The TS-480 sucks as a dx rig.:p

Sometimes I wonder where your comments come from, Fred. The whiz bang radios are "nice", I suppose, but not necessary.

AGREED!! It is a very good radio!!

While it is NOT my primary radio...the TS-480 is a GREAT radio with a fantastic receiver. I use mine every year for the CW station at our club's Field Day event in a multi-radio environment. With the two CW filters installed....rivals my "big" radio for its performance without missing a beat.

Does not do everything like my FT-2K, but that should be obvious...especially when working split. If it was the only radio I owned....it would still be a keeper every day of the week.

[KE4YOG]

I have one of those terrible TS480hx'S. I start with a TS2000. I like that rig but some one offered me more than I had paid for it. I bought a TS480HX to replace it. First thing I noticed is the receive. Much better. Even though it is a menu driven it is easy to move around and get what you want. I upgrade to General in Oct and Extra in March. I had been a tech for 15 years and I was QRT for about 10 of those due to family. I am a DXer in training. I am learning every day. I am running a double length G5RV. I have 57 confirmed and 147 worked. Not bad. I have added around 70 of those since Feb after getting the 480. I love it and for the money it would do you very good. Yes you can get better but for 1200 you cant go wrong. Now back to the Yemen pile up. I have worked them on 1 or 2 bands but I would like more.

[K1VSK]

I'm new to the world of DXing and was wondering what the minimum HF rig would be for true DXing over the remaining current sunspot cycle in the Kenwood lineup (both old and new models)? I already know I want a Kenwood for its legendary audio quality. ;)

Thank you
KC0BUS

Let's continue to ignore the presumption implied that the radio has much, if anything, to do with working DX.

Please read the following until you memorize it - IT's ALL ABOUT THE ANTENNA

[N0AZZ]

Let's continue to ignore the presumption implied that the radio has much, if anything, to do with working DX.

Please read the following until you memorize it - IT's ALL ABOUT THE ANTENNA


That is the correct answer it is always the antennas I would rather have a $100 radio with a $10,000 antenna system than a $10,000 radio with a $100 antenna.

As should have been pointed out as K1VSK said important are a few points for a successful DXer

LISTEN, LISTEN

OPERATING SKILL

DXers CODE OF CONDUCT

ANTENNAX<ANTENNAS<ANTENNAS maxed out on all you can, you must be able to hear them to work them!

RADIO

AMP

FOR THE MOST SKILLED QRP DXer

It takes a lot of dedication and time to be a successful DXer not something that comes overnight or for that matter even 10 years to devolope the skill needed to reach the top if ever.

[KB2FCV]

we can't all have beams on towers. a good radio will improve even a simple dipole antenna setup. i wouldn't get an Icom 7800 but something like a used 756PROIII would be a huge step up from an Icom 751A. there are parallels for Yeasu and Kenwood...

Nope, we can't. I don't have a tower and a beam (but I sure wish I could). You definitely want to put up the best you are able to. A simple dipole does quite well. Generally if I can hear em' I can work em' with mine, just takes a little skill and persistance sometimes.

[N2ADV]

I have a TS440SAT and a TS480SAT and I love them both. I've never had much problem hearing stations with either one (the 480 does do a better job at pulling stations out of the weeds, howeve). It takes some getting familliar with the radio and getting used to using all of the various functions. I got the 480 used (only a few months old) for under 800.

The 440 was my dad's and it's a workhorse. I'm constantly amazed that it can do so well given it's age.

All of that being said, I recently had the pleasure to witness an Elecraft K3 in operation and I'm saving my pennies for one now...

[AC0FP]

I'm new to the world of DXing and was wondering what the minimum HF rig would be for true DXing over the remaining current sunspot cycle in the Kenwood lineup (both old and new models)? I already know I want a Kenwood for its legendary audio quality. ;)

Thank you
KC0BUSWhen I hear the term "legendary audio quality", I immediately think of wide IF filters. Maybe great for audio sound quality but not so good for audio bandwidth problems.

fp

[N0AZZ]

I have a TS440SAT and a TS480SAT and I love them both. I've never had much problem hearing stations with either one (the 480 does do a better job at pulling stations out of the weeds, howeve). It takes some getting familliar with the radio and getting used to using all of the various functions. I got the 480 used (only a few months old) for under 800.

The 440 was my dad's and it's a workhorse. I'm constantly amazed that it can do so well given it's age.

All of that being said, I recently had the pleasure to witness an Elecraft K3 in operation and I'm saving my pennies for one now...

I own a Elecraft also if all you want to do is CW then it may be the radio for you to buy. My FTDX-5000MP comes out on top for phone and digital but for DC Elecraft has a slight edge. The main reason being ease of use and a little better receiver preformance and 200w plus run in class A mode for transmit. The K series being weight factor it is about the weight of a mobile and runs on 12v good for Field Day and other portable operations.

I will tell you one thing when it comes to true weak signal work I will hear things that you will never even know are there with my 5000 compared to my 480 it's just a fact, sorry. That is not meant to take anything away from the 480 I love mine, but just telling you the truth there is a lot of difference between the 2 radios.

I'm getting ready to order transverters for my Elecraft (theirs) and my FT-5000 (DEM) both for 2m and compare them to my IC-9100.

[KR2C]

When I hear the term "legendary audio quality", I immediately think of wide IF filters. Maybe great for audio sound quality but not so good for audio bandwidth problems.

fp

The "legendary audio quality" isn't all about bandwidth. It has more to do with the "tone stack" or the circuit that shapes the audio once it hits the radio from the mic.

[AC0FP]

The "legendary audio quality" isn't all about bandwidth. It has more to do with the "tone stack" or the circuit that shapes the audio once it hits the radio from the mic."Tone stack"? This sounds like some new musical/guitar type slang.

fp

[N2ADV]

I own a Elecraft also if all you want to do is CW then it may be the radio for you to buy. My FTDX-5000MP comes out on top for phone and digital but for DC Elecraft has a slight edge. The main reason being ease of use and a little better receiver preformance and 200w plus run in class A mode for transmit. The K series being weight factor it is about the weight of a mobile and runs on 12v good for Field Day and other portable operations.

I will tell you one thing when it comes to true weak signal work I will hear things that you will never even know are there with my 5000 compared to my 480 it's just a fact, sorry. That is not meant to take anything away from the 480 I love mine, but just telling you the truth there is a lot of difference between the 2 radios.

I'm getting ready to order transverters for my Elecraft (theirs) and my FT-5000 (DEM) both for 2m and compare them to my IC-9100.No sorry needed - the 480 hits a price point and does well for that price point but the Elecraft did pull more weak CW signals out for sure!

[N0AZZ]

Jim that is very true I felt the TS-480 HX was the most bang for the buck for what I wanted for sure. It had every feature that I wanted in a mobile rig and then some with a big factor of the 200w. I added the Turbo Tuner to it for my Screwdriver and it works perfect just touch the tune button on the radio and it does the adjustments to the antenna quickly. As for the price I paid $1025 shipped from R&L making for a very tasty deal. Kenwood had a $250 coupon along with there low prices to begin with I had decided on the radio before I started shopping prices had planned on paying more.

I did in fact work the 6o0cw and Yemen both with the 480 barefoot but in fact did work Yemen on 17m also with my IC-703 Plus 5w all probigation no skill there.

[K1FBI]

When I hear the term "legendary audio quality", I immediately think of wide IF filters. Maybe great for audio sound quality but not so good for audio bandwidth problems.

fp

TRANSMIT BANDWIDTH
TS-830 = 2.4 kHz
TS-480 = 2.4 kHz
What'chu talkin' 'bout Willis?

[WM3O]

TRANSMIT BANDWIDTH
TS-830 = 2.4 kHz
TS-480 = 2.4 kHz
What'chu talkin' 'bout Willis?

2.4 is pretty dang wide, esp. for DXing.

[K1FBI]

2.4 is pretty dang wide, esp. for DXing.

Haha, now try and sell that one to the ESSB crew.

Don't forget the TS-480 can transmit at 2.0 kHz with the push of a button. On the reception side besides the adjustable audio DSP bandwidth and the 1.8 kHz IF filter, you can also select the CW IF filter for SSB reception (menu 17). Now if 2.0 kHz transmit is too dang wide for DX, try pinching your nostrils closed when you speak into the microphone. ;)

[WM3O]

Haha, now try and sell that one to the ESSB crew.

Don't forget the TS-480 can transmit at 2.0 kHz with the push of a button. On the reception side besides the adjustable audio DSP bandwidth and the 1.8 kHz IF filter, you can also select the CW IF filter for SSB reception (menu 17). Now if 2.0 kHz transmit is too dang wide for DX, try pinching your nostrils closed when you speak into the microphone. ;)

my signal is 1.7 kHz on transmit. i can tuck in nicely between signals in plieups.

wait, i've said too much.

[N2ADV]

Haha, now try and sell that one to the ESSB crew.

Don't forget the TS-480 can transmit at 2.0 kHz with the push of a button. On the reception side besides the adjustable audio DSP bandwidth and the 1.8 kHz IF filter, you can also select the CW IF filter for SSB reception (menu 17). Now if 2.0 kHz transmit is too dang wide for DX, try pinching your nostrils closed when you speak into the microphone. ;)I just figured the settings out for just that the other day (been playing with the settings mostly for CW instead of SSB). Love it.

I'm actually thinking of setting up a Flex receiver with an antenna at the far corner of my 4 acres to see if that helps with DX'ing as well :)

[K1FBI]

I just figured the settings out for just that the other day (been playing with the settings mostly for CW instead of SSB). Love it.

I'm actually thinking of setting up a Flex receiver with an antenna at the far corner of my 4 acres to see if that helps with DX'ing as well :)

The separate receiver sounds like a great plan! The more I learn to properly use the 480 the more I like what it can do. Too many people abandon a rig and trash talk it without taking the time to realize it's not the rig.

[N0AZZ]

The separate receiver sounds like a great plan! The more I learn to properly use the 480 the more I like what it can do. Too many people abandon a rig and trash talk it without taking the time to realize it's not the rig.


Most people look at the real world numbers QST, Sherwood and numerous others tests and independent reviews for what receivers will do and not do. Many will never realise what any radio is capable of due to antenna restrictions types, location, receiving, transmit many considerations.

There are a lot of people that will tell you they can work all they hear that statement means nothing if your limited on what you hear to begin with. Also to a large extent the noise floor on your receiver means a lot also a lot of factors involved and I try to compare fairly with other rigs and antennas for my own comparison's after reading all reviews.

[N2ADV]

The separate receiver sounds like a great plan! The more I learn to properly use the 480 the more I like what it can do. Too many people abandon a rig and trash talk it without taking the time to realize it's not the rig.
I've found that using the sliders on HRD makes it easier to modify the settings on the fly rather than having to go through the menus :)

[K1FBI]

Most people look at the real world numbers QST, Sherwood and numerous others tests and independent reviews for what receivers will do and not do. Many will never realise what any radio is capable of due to antenna restrictions types, location, receiving, transmit many considerations.

There are a lot of people that will tell you they can work all they hear that statement means nothing if your limited on what you hear to begin with. Also to a large extent the noise floor on your receiver means a lot also a lot of factors involved and I try to compare fairly with other rigs and antennas for my own comparison's after reading all reviews.

So please list the top ten transceivers you have tested, if you don't mind sharing.

[KO6WB]

I just picked up a TS-590S as an upgrade from a TS-50S. It wasn't as much of a change as you might think. The TS-50S has a fair receiver in it. It gets better when you put in the Inrad filter and for CW the 500Hz filter as well. The 590 does many things the 50 wasn't able to do but the price comparision considered it would be hard to beat such a simple radio. Don't get me wrong the 590 is a good rig and I'm enjoying it. The whole idea was to get what was best bang for the buck. The 590 is lower in cost than a lot of the other rigs that have similar equipped features.
Have fun
73
Gary

[N1JDW]

When I bought my Yaesu in the mid 90's, I excluded Kenwood from the list of choices due to its poor customer service reputation. The antenna system, among other factors, can allow most radios to function well, or otherwise. Height and lack of obstacles is ideal, but plenty of great contacts have been made on ground-mounted verticals, and temporary setups.