VK Drops HF Code Requirement

[M5AKA]

The news Australian hams have been waiting to hear. The code requirement is abolished from 1st Jan.
WIA Presidents announcement below.

Trevor M5AKA
http://www.g0mwt.org.uk/
-------------------------------
Fellow amateur radio operators this is VK1LK Ernest Hocking President WIA.

Today is indeed an historic day in the history of amateur radio in Australia.

Today Dr Bob Horton, the Deputy Chairman of the ACA has made an information release on the widely anticipated removal of Morse code testing requirements for Australian amateur radio operators. As identified in Dr Horton's information release the removal of the Morse testing requirement will not come into force until 1 January 2004. The proposed changes will require no changes to existing licences or callsigns and so amateurs across Australia will be able to enjoy access to HF operation from the beginning of 2004. I look forward to hearing many new operators on HF over the New Year
break including all of you interested in ensuring the preservation of on air CW. With any luck I will be able to get some time on air myself and hope to be operating QRP CW over the holiday on 80, 40, 20, and 15m

I would urge you all to respect the timing of the new conditions and resist the desire to get on air early. There is still a lot of work to undertake before the full amateur radio reform process is complete and we must all
respect the need to operate with the restrictions of the LCD until this reform is complete.

It is also good to hear that after many years of preparation by members of both the ACA and the WIA that the 80m DX window will be made available to
amateurs again with effect the 1st of January 2004. The planning and administrative effort required to achieve this should not be underestimated and I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members of the ACA and WIA /ACA liaison committee who worked to achieve this excellent outcome for amateur radio in Australia. Thank you.

I look forward to hearing you on all on air over the New Year holiday period and will suggesting that a special on air activity day be organised to celebrate this historic occasion

73 and all the best in amateur radio de Ernest Hocking VK1LK

[k1lwi]

big deal ham radio sure going down hill fast congrat.to all the CB opr must be very happy now hi let do away with all the other test just give away the lic. the bands will be full of lids sure will sound just like #the CB band bye bye ham radio #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Another third world nation drops the code requirement!

[N5KY]

Congrats to the lazy codeless morons.
I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #
Real radio operators know code.

[KC8OZJ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CBer @ Nov. 18 2003,12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Congrats to the lazy codeless morons.
I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #
Real radio operators know code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You sound like the perfect Amateur Radio Elmer and Gods gift to Amateur Radio too! Keep up the good work! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif Please stay on the H.F. bands with the real radio operators who know code. Don't need your kind on the VHF/UHF bands!

[W0UZR]

Do you know how CB sounds now? Is that the way you want your favorite band and frequencies to sound??

Go to CB and get used to it and learn to like it. Stay on CB for a long time, like 6 months to a year, and then maybe you will get to like it so you can stand your favorite HF band and frequencies if they eliminate code here.

I'm all for UPing the code requirements to 8 to 10 words a minute if I was going to change anything.


kb0uzr

[kd5zes]

Passing a code reception test hasn't a damned thing to do with the consideration of others that we should have learned when we were children. It's evident to me that many haven't mastered this concept. Quite a few of them have amateur licenses. Listen to the bands.

Passing a reception test, however, does seem to foster an elitest attitude, as does attaining a higher class of license.

I would welcome a strengthening of the technical aspects in ALL of the tests - this should be enough to weed out some of the Billy-Bobs and Good-Buddies and perhaps even some of the prospective hams with an attitude that allows little tolerance for lesser forms of life.

Frank
KD5ZES

[k1lwi]

i think cw is part of ham radio with all the repeaters on iding on cw what is 5 wpm to learn that speed is great if you give up cw test exam do you give up the cw id on repeaters ? id only on voice ? this is #ham radio cw is part of ham radio got my lic in 59 and in 1975 got my extra copy 20 wpm guess i a real ham not a cber who just talk hi 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think cw is part of ham radio with all the repeaters on iding on cw what is 5 wpm to learn that speed is great if you give up cw test exam do you give up the cw id on repeaters ? id only on voice ? this is #ham radio cw is part of ham radio got my lic in 59 and in 1975 got my extra copy 20 wpm guess i a real ham not a cber who just talk hi 73 [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


The number of mental giants that hold extra tickets is astounding.


N3TTN

[KD5EUB]

i WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, DURING THE 911 DISASTER AND DURING THE CAL. FIRES, WHAT TYPE OF COMMUNICATIONS WERE USED, CODE OR PHONE ??
DURING A DISASTER PHONE MODE WAS USED WHERE WERE ALL THE CW NUTS ?? YES I AM A TECH NO CODE !!. BUT AM DEEPY INVOLED IN EMERGENCY
COMMUNICATIONS.

[DX]

I passed my code test in 1982, I am sure glad to see it go. I havent been on HF because it is so much like CB (yes, I have the license). When I was on HF the people sounded much like the CB guys, swearing, cussing and keying up on people (expecially if they were on THEIR frequency). I spent 3 years on CB in the 70's and didnt like the garbage, why would I want to talk to a bunch of people that sounded worse that the CB guys. Have you heard 20 meters lately...

How many of you HF CB'ers have a soldering iron, eh...
Just a bunch of appliance operators hanging on to a dieing mode as a rite of passage. Maybe now some of the engineers and tech's will get their license and infect the hobby with experimenters as they dont have to learn how to saddle a horse. Maybe now the HF CB'ers will go away.

Maybe now the HF CB'ers will go away and stop causing the silent keys turning in their graves and maybe some real hams will show up (yes, with soldering irons in hand).

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k1lwi @ Nov. 19 2003,15:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think cw is part of ham radio with all the repeaters on iding on cw what is 5 wpm to learn that speed is great if you give up cw test exam do you give up the cw id on repeaters ? id only on voice ? this is #ham radio cw is part of ham radio got my lic in 59 and in 1975 got my extra copy 20 wpm guess i a real ham not a cber who just talk hi 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I haven't heard anyone advocating that CW go away, and it will never go completely away, just as AM didn't when SSB came out. CW will be just as PSK31 or packet or SSTV. It'll be just another mode to learn about. If the Know-Code people would Elmer some of the No-Code bunch, It just might keep CW alive. Of course if they keep up this "Holier than thou" attitude, It will die out because no one likes that kind of attitude.

Real Hams builds some of thier radio equipment..
Real Hams are nice
Real Hams are not arrogant
Real Hams Help to Elmer others
Real Hams make good Ambassadors
Real Hams don't resort to calling others bad names
Real Hams .....

Too bad there aren't any more Real Hams any more...
At least not on e-ham.net and the QRZ ....

Maybe in the "Real world" there might be some....
I'd like to meet them....

CW has a part in Ham radio, it was at one time the ONLY mode of operation, and I respect any and all who can use it. Who knows one day I may re-learn it and use it again. But for now I prefer PSK31/Packet/SSTV. I've been having a ball on 6meters in the Aurora zone.

My computer will do CW just fine not 100% maybe 90% but enough to pull ut of the noise background the message. (whenever I hear one) bands have quiet these days. Must be the solar activity.

My first attempt at homebrewing a 6m 100w amplifier died a horrible death. (blue smoke came out of the cabinet) Had a loose ground, oh well thats how I learn..... by doing...and blowing it occasionaly. But I'll get it right soon and have 100w on 6m, instead of 10w.

73 everybody,

PS. Hooray for the Australian hams!!

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k1lwi @ Nov. 19 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">..... if you give up cw test exam do you give up the cw id on repeaters ? id only on voice ? this is #ham radio cw is part of ham radio got my lic in 59 and in 1975 got my extra copy 20 wpm guess i a real ham not a cber who just talk hi 73 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Good God man. #Relax. #You still don't get it. #They are only dropping the CW REQUIREMENT. #Not the USAGE of CW, or testing for a license. #CW will live on forever just like it does now. And repeaters will still ID in CW. #The FCC won't drag you into their dungeons and flog you for using CW. #And they won't take your paddle keyer away. #If we go by your logic(?), then all other modes of transmission must be illegal, because there is no special test for them either.

Sit back, take a deep breath, and repeat after me.

It's only the CW requirement that will be dropped. #Not CW usage, or licenses.

Repeat several times if necessary, or until the reality of it sinks in.
**************************
And congrats to our good Aussie friends in VK land. You have taken a giant leap into the 21st century. When our FCC gets off their duffs, and does the right thing, I will look forward to working you mates on HF.

G'day.

[AB8RU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N3TTN @ Nov. 20 2003,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i think cw is part of ham radio with all the repeaters on iding on cw what is 5 wpm to learn that speed is great if you give up cw test exam do you give up the cw id on repeaters ? id only on voice ? this is #ham radio cw is part of ham radio got my lic in 59 and in 1975 got my extra copy 20 wpm guess i a real ham not a cber who just talk hi 73 [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


The number of mental giants that hold extra tickets is astounding.


N3TTN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ready for Elements 3 General and 4 Extra ? being I see you just got to Technician At least being a Extra I worked hard to gain those Elements, and people respect that, Also I had under the old Commercial Licensing system Studied and Passed my Third Class Radiotelephone Operators License with Broadcast Endorsement ( old Element 9) and I recently found that certain Jobs require a Amateur Extra as Well a GROL ( General Radiotelephone Operators License ) mainly someone who has an understanding what Radio Communications or Electronics Theory, #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

also same requirements for an Industry that can be a career, but that person should hold high standards in order to be considered such a industry, If you demonstrate by what you communicate on these postings reflect what someone may say one way or the other about you.

and that by the way is by someone knowing that you can be an asset to the industry or maybe not at all.

Now being a Extra I made some new acquaintances, discuss technical issues, feed back that will indeed affect the community as a whole even outside Amateur Radio so us Good Guys are the ones who people look to.

what can be built by good reputation is one thing, but to destroy it only takes a short time to do so.

I hope that what I said is clear enough to show you a better way. and to the rest of the community #Reviewing the Radio Amateurs Code .

( Its ok to joke sometimes ) But to be a Charlie Brown is another .

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AB8RU @ Nov. 24 2003,20:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I recently found that certain Jobs require a Amateur Extra[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Not in the US, they don't. amateur means precisely that to the feds: no pay for using radio.

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AB8RU Wrote: being I see you just got to Technician At least being a Extra I worked hard to gain those Elements, and people respect that.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Not exactly Mark.... I've been a Tech for going on ten years now, and FYI up to this point my ticket has afforded me all the opportunities I've needed, wanted, or had the time for, although I am planning to take the general class written in December. My comments to the "mental giant" were directed at the atrocious grammar and spelling that was evident in his post and was not directed at extra ticket holders in general. Frankly, my nine year old daughter could do better, and I make no apologies for the post. Sorry if you felt it was directed at all extras. Hats off to you for all your achivements, obviously this is much more than just an avocation to you, but some of us have neither the time, resources, or inclination to allow amateur radio to be the primary focus of our existence. Hope you understand.


73, N3TTN

[VE3MFN]

The great divide continues........



VE3MFN FISTS #6922 #CFO#888

[ve1bsq]

Ham Radio will not exist in a few years anyways.

73
Joe

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CBer @ Nov. 18 2003,14:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Congrats to the lazy codeless morons.
I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #
Real radio operators know code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
your just a flash in the pan. a little bit of baking soda and your gone http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ve1bsq @ Nov. 28 2003,15:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ham Radio will not exist in a few years anyways.

73
Joe[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Earth to Joe! Earth to Joe! It's time to wake up now.

**************************

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Quote From (CB'er). Congrats to the lazy codeless morons. I'm glad they are too far away to usually be heard here. Real radio operators know code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have been in commercial broadcasting for over 30 years. I have rebuilt commercial radio station transmitters. You know. The kind that you could only dream about, and probably wouldn't know what one was if you bumped into it. And I don't know code. Don't preach about being a "REAL RADIO OPERATOR", until you grow up and find out what one really is.

An idiot CB'er calling someone a moron. Talk about your irony.

[KH6SQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CBer @ Nov. 18 2003,12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Congrats to the lazy codeless morons.
I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #
Real radio operators know code.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Get over it!

[kc7jty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CBer @ Nov. 18 2003,12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What the hell planet are you on?

[ko7r]

Congrats to all our fellow hams down under!! You Aussies are there for us, out in front, leading the way. (Like lining up like sheep and turning in your guns..... How's that working for you? Feel safer now?) Glad you made the leap to no CW. Hello CB.

We won't be far behind, mates.

[9A3HP]

HF #without #CW http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #
hmmm, #maybe #this call #progress, #but # what #is #new , #people #are #still #violent, #CW # is #last #fence # between #wild #people #and #patient #radio operators. #
My #grandmother #know # Press #To #Talk
But #how #to #be #polite , patient #and #care for #other. Nobody can #buy #this, #only #paper. But # paper # tolerate everything.
At #last #HAM #radio #is #hobby #not #obligation, not #bisnis.
This #is #hobby to #learn, #open # new #frontire.
Why #not #learn #more than #average # people.
In #other case #people #have #cellular phone.(Better than #amateur #radio, beleive #me, #no #fading no #electrical #interference etc.)
OK #i #understain new #tehnologies,(connecting #PC #and HF #radio)
but #99,99% #new #operators #"CW free" #they #will #be # take #a #mic #and #limited HAM activity http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif (own activity #because #they #do # not #know #nothing than #phone contact)
HAM #radio #became #PNP #"plug and play" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
How #low #HAM #radio #can #go??

9A3HP # #Zoky

[K3DAV]

Hello Zoky
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HF without CW
hmmm, maybe this call progress, but what is new , people are still violent, CW is last fence between wild people and patient radio operators.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No Zoky. Many wild people now on ham radio who know CW. Never was a last fence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My grandmother know Press To Talk
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Can your Grandmother use CW?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At last HAM radio is hobby not obligation, not bisnis.
This is hobby to learn, open new frontire.
Why not learn more than average people.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If you want to learn more, this is OK. But only if you want to.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK i understain new tehnologies,(connecting PC and HF radio) but 99,99% new operators "CW free" they will be take a mic and limited HAM activity (own activity because they do not know nothing than phone contact)
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

CW free is not limited ham activity. It only is no CW subbands. For someone who is CW free, that is good. Many many phone bands to talk on.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HAM radio became PNP "plug and play"
How low HAM radio can go??
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

No zoky. Ham radio is not PNP. Many ham's still enjoy building antennas, linears, radio's, and improving their radios.

To bring many new good ham operators to HF is a good thing. Not going lower.

If I become a no-code operator on HF, and I call you, will you have a good QSO with me? I hope you are a good enough man, and say yes.

Take care Zoky. 73.

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ko7r @ Nov. 30 2003,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Congrats to all our fellow hams down under!! #You Aussies are there for us, out in front, leading the way. (Like lining up like sheep and turning in your guns..... #How's that working for you? #Feel safer now?) #Glad you made the leap to no CW. #Hello CB. #

We won't be far behind, mates.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I talk with a friend in Australia quite often by Echolink. He says crime has gone down in his country. And he DOES feel safer.

I guess that has worked out OK after all.

HELLO CB? Are you nuts? My God, you guys will stoop as low as you possibly can, to be right. Still grabbing at straws. Still scrapping the bottom of the barrel for that magic answer, that will let you be right. Here. Let me help you.

THERE IS NO MAGIC ANSWER. YOU WON'T FIND ONE. IT'S NOT THERE. IT DOESN'T EXIST.

I just wish one person could come up with a real NECESSARY reason to keep the CW requirement. Many have given great reasons to learn CW, and they're quite impressive. But not one person has made a single statement, to prove why CW is NECESSARY to advance in license class, and make anyone a better HF operator. If anyone could do that, I would gladly concede, and pat you on the back as a wise person. But until then, PLEASE. Just please stop making comparissons of the mode of CW, to things that are absolutely necessary in life.

[kd7eze]

Somehow I knew this would turn into another <span style='color:red'>code/no-code</span> debate http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif , but it's still humorous to read anyway. Just congratulate the Aussies on their accomplishment, and go on. This is, after all, the "ham radio news" section, not the "talk and opinions" section.

KD7EZE

[ko7r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Nov. 30 2003,23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ko7r @ Nov. 30 2003,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Congrats to all our fellow hams down under!! #You Aussies are there for us, out in front, leading the way. (Like lining up like sheep and turning in your guns..... #How's that working for you? #Feel safer now?) #Glad you made the leap to no CW. #Hello CB. #

We won't be far behind, mates.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I talk with a friend in Australia quite often by Echolink. #He says crime has gone down in his country. And he DOES feel safer.

I guess that has worked out OK after all.

HELLO CB? #Are you nuts? My God, you guys will stoop as low as you possibly can, to be right. Still grabbing at straws. Still scrapping the bottom of the barrel for that magic answer, that will let you be right. #Here. Let me help you.

THERE IS NO MAGIC ANSWER. # YOU WON'T FIND ONE. #IT'S NOT THERE. IT DOESN'T EXIST.

I just wish one person could come up with a real NECESSARY reason to keep the CW requirement. #Many have given great reasons to learn CW, and they're quite impressive. But not one person has made a single statement, to prove why CW is NECESSARY to advance in license class, and make anyone a better HF operator. #If anyone could do that, I would gladly concede, and pat you on the back as a wise person. But until then, PLEASE. Just please stop making comparissons of the mode of CW, to things that are absolutely necessary in life.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
David, et al:

I am really wondering where your echolink QSO buddy gets his statistics. That info flies in the face of everything I have heard, from many sources. Oh, well....

NECESSARY, you say... Hmmmm.... First let me offer a thought for you: APPROPRIATE. It is entirely appropriate that a hobby which has been around for tens of times your age, a hobby which has produced and/or fostered hundreds of creative persons, a hobby which has been by far the most productive of ideas, experiments, home-spun radio gear, etc., etc., etc., should stay that way. It is APPROPRIATE that it should be so.

But, as you say, and you may be correct, NECESSARY is another matter. It very well may be NECESSARY that Morse code requirements be dropped in order to keep the boat afloat. It very well may be NECESSARY to keep folks like you coming into the fraternity, to buy your new gear, to support the ARRL's insatiable need for more and more radio ads in QST (including all the fodder over contests, they being the big reason to buy a bigger, newer, more powerful, multi-featured radio, in most instances), to feed the political machinery which will inevitably combine the ARRL with the FCC, in practice, if not in fact, in the not-too-distant future.

Yes, it may be NECESSARY to make getting a ham license just a quickie little test, a formality, and the outlay of a few bucks. That will make it all easier. And in our modern gone-crazy world, it seems that ease has become necessity.

As for me, an old Troll (your term), I like to hang onto the grandiose concept of PROPRIETY, in my waning years. NECESSITY is related to survival, and a hobby shouldn't be about survival. It should be about enjoyment, common interests with interesting people, discussions on all the aspects of the hobby, etc.

I guess it all boils down to what you want from a hobby. Your kind want ease, no hassles, chit-chat, contest numbers, etc. I (and other old fogeys like me) want a little more than that. I just wish the Powers That Be could come up with a more APPROPRIATE way of getting you and me what we want. You want a cleaned-up version of the Citizens Band on VHF or UHF, or even HF (I guess you're already getting that, aren't you?). As for me, I want to be able to work SSB and CW on an HF band, try out my old stuff, take part in a good technical discussion once in a while, unhampered by rude, ignorant folks who just want to use their radio, no matter where or how they choose to do so, folks who don't have a clue that a single-sideband signal takes up the better part of 3kHz of spectrum space.

You and your ilk will probably win, but that doesn't make the win right. If you win, you will win because you have the money. Sometimes life is like that. But old Trolls can dream, can't they?

Dan
KO7R

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">David, et al:

I am really wondering where your echolink QSO buddy gets his statistics. That info flies in the face of everything I have heard, from many sources. Oh, well....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well Dan. The man lives there. I would certainly think, he should know.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is entirely appropriate that a hobby which has been around for tens of times your age,..... [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Tens of times my age? Wow! You mean that ham radio is over 500 years old? Did they use strait keys, or a paddle?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....a hobby which has produced and/or fostered hundreds of creative persons, a hobby which has been by far the most productive of ideas, experiments, home-spun radio gear, etc., etc., etc., should stay that way. It is APPROPRIATE that it should be so.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with you. And it always will be that way for many as it is now for many. Does that mean it has to be that way for all?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It very well may be NECESSARY to keep folks like you coming into the fraternity, to buy your new gear, to support the ARRL's insatiable need for more and more radio ads in QST (including all the fodder over contests, they being the big reason to buy a bigger, newer, more powerful, multi-featured radio, in most instances), to feed the political machinery which will inevitably combine the ARRL with the FCC, in practice, if not in fact, in the not-too-distant future.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You must be confusing me with someone else. I already have my gear. I do not support the ARRL, QST, their contest's, or any of their agendas. My membership with ARRL was a gift from a good friend, when I got my ticket. I would never have joined on my own. And the ARRL has had the FCC in their back pocket since day one.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for me, an old Troll (your term), I like to hang onto the grandiose concept of PROPRIETY, in my waning years. NECESSITY is related to survival, and a hobby shouldn't be about survival. It should be about enjoyment, common interests with interesting people, discussions on all the aspects of the hobby, etc. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Again I agree with you with one exception. The word "Necessity" in the discussion of the CW requirement, is related to a skill that is needed to perform a specific task. CW is necessary for those who choose to use that mode. But that's where the "Necessity" part ends.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your kind want ease, no hassles, chit-chat, contest numbers, etc. I (and other old fogeys like me) want a little more than that. I just wish the Powers That Be could come up with a more APPROPRIATE way of getting you and me what we want. You want a cleaned-up version of the Citizens Band on VHF or UHF, or even HF (I guess you're already getting that, aren't you?). [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

My Kind? Contest numbers? A cleaned up version of CB on VHF/UHF/HF? You are confusing me with someone else again. You don't know me. You have no clue as to how I operate a radio, or what I want from ham radio. Actually. I don't want any more than you do. I want to operate a little SSB, have a technical chat once in a while..... That part of your radio life won't change. As for the rude, ignorant folks. My friend, they are already there, and have been for years.

You have prejudged the no-coders, and you have created your own little distorted vision of what they represent. I am a proud, dedicated, and good amateur operator. I'll bet that we would get along great in-person. We have the same love and respect for the hobby. And there are thousands just like me, that will be a positive addition to the HF bands, when the CW requirement is dropped. I just think it is sad that you guys can't see past your own illbegotten opinions to realize that. That way of thinking is what keeps this pathetic debate fired up.

How will you feel? What will you say to me, when the CW requirement is dropped, and it just gets better, and all of your worries and digs on the no-coders, was for nothing? Will you say you were wrong? I doubt it. It will be too hard for you to admit defeat. You will just continue to hold a senseless grudge.

[ko7r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Dec. 02 2003,02:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[
How will you feel? #What will you say to me, when the CW requirement is dropped, and it just gets better, and all of your worries and digs on the no-coders, was for nothing? #Will you say you were wrong? #I doubt it. #It will be too hard for you to admit defeat. #You will just continue to hold a senseless grudge.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
David,

Sorry about the diminishing of your age. I was guessing, from your attitude and comments, and got it wrong.

When we choose to express an opinion in a public forum, we have to accept the responsibility for that opinion, which includes representing, as it were, a whole group of people who share the same opinion. So when you start getting specific about your own personal traits, beliefs, age, operating practices, a lot of the discussion misses the target. Since I don't know you personally, my comments shouldn't be taken personally, but rather as dialogue between two points of view, not between two persons individually.

David, if ham radio truly gets better ("better" being a subjective term) for ANY reason, I will be surprised. Call me a curmudgeon if you want, but I don't see any of our collective life as Americans getting any better, only more aggravating, due mainly to more government controls, tampering and corruption. So I doubt that dropping CW testing requirments will have any huge impact on the degradation of the hobby. It is going downhill now at such a rapid rate of speed, that a little more grease on the skids won't make much difference. All this is, admittedly, my (our) opinion. What actually happens will have to remain to be seen.

But, instead of thoerizing about what I might answer to some future question posed to me by your side, why don't you ask me a question which has timely significance? For example: "Dan, since you had to pass a 20 WPM code test to get your Extra class license, how do you feel about the granting of the same license to passers of only 5 WPM tests? How about no code test at all?"

Answer: I feel lousy about the 5WPM, and extremely unhappy about the zero WPM. How would you feel in a similar situation? How would you feel if you started seeing operators show up on your favorite repeaters, using the same frequencies as you, only with a license which required little or no technical ability to obtain? I'll bet you wouldn't be too happy about that. Now, you may hark back to the old argument that knowing the code doesn't necessarily make a good, courteous, knowledgeable ham. I agree, so don't bother to go there. There are Extra class lids, Advanced class lids, and General class lids, always have been. There are no guarantees. The granting of ANY kind of license does not guarantee anything.

But there is one thread of common sense we must not lose sight of, and that is that you never improve the quality of any product by loosening the testing requirements on the ingredients. CW is one ingredient of ham radio, and testing for it is one more hoop (admittedly a nostalgic consideration, mostly) to have to jump through. Just as lessening the physical requirements to become a fireman or an infantryman, in order to let females into the profession has not and never will improve the quality of the profession (PLEASE no tangential discussion on equal rights for women), lessening ANY testing requirement can only result in a degredation of quality. Instead of 10 thousand lids on the air now, we will probably be looking at perhaps 20 or 30 or more thousand in the future (all these are hypothetical numbers for the purpose of illustration).

So to you, David, and all whom you represent, I have stated my case as well as I can, and don't think I will pursue the subject any further. I will have made some sense to some, no sense to others, but perhaps this little match of words has served to enlighten some in the middle, and get them thinking. Thinking is really important. Acting is even more important, but only after the thinking has taken place.

Meanwhile, every time I am able to carry on my brand of ham radio fun, which includes mostly SSB, CW at times (mobile CW, too), and can carry on a QSO unhampered by rude, uncourteous people (which will rule out all contest weekends), I will be thankful for folks like yourself who know how to do it right.

73,

Dan KO7R

P.S. I like you much better when you don't curse. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3DAV]

KO7R:

I gotta tell ya Dan. I am not normally a hot tempered person. It's just that this debate has gone far beyond just a debate. Every post is nothing short of a rehashing of previous post. It has ended without ending, (If you will). Every new post, pro and con just sounds more and more, (For lack of a better word) STUPID. It just burns me how people can be so stupid as to bash and rehash, over something they can not predict the outcome. They only see the worse, and none of the positive side.

When it comes right down to it, you and I are not that different. My radio experience has come from many years of monitoring amateur radio. My love and respect has come from many years of working as a tech in commercial broadcasting. I understand the tech side of radio, and I know how to be a good amateur operator. I enjoy talking to friends and new people. My favorite so far, has been 6m, and 2m SSB. I just turned 49, and I have been a radio DX'er since I was a kid. It's why I got into Comercial broadcasting.

Let me give you a similar experience to how you feel. I got my first class radiotelephone license many years ago. I had to pass the test for 3rd, 2nd, the 1st class. Today, the FCC has combined the 2nd and 1st into one license, called a GENERAL class. The test is not as hard as the old 2nd class test.

NOW! Do I feel slapped in the face because I had to pass all 3 test's, and the new guys don't? I did at first, but I don't any longer. The new guys who are entering the field seem to know what they are doing, and it helped bring more fresh ideas into the business of broadcasting. When they need help, I give it to them. I don't stop to think about the fact that if they had passed the 3 test I had to pass, they wouldn't have to ask for my help.

If I were a general, advanced, or extra class of many years, I might agree to a small degree, about the dumbing down of the hobby. But the best action I could take would be to get over it, and look forward to talking to new people. The amount of idiots on the air will always increase, with or without the code requirement. But the argument (or the debate) has been beaton to death, and it's time to move on. Time to welcome the new good operators to HF, and help the ones who are not so good to become good operators. That is exactly how I would act. That is just how I am.

Take care Dan.

[N5KY]

As soon as my codeless license is handed
out to me I aim to encircle my unconfiscated
Australian assault rifle with Heil microphones
and transmit a wide and overmodulated
audio blast of gunfire right in the middle
of the 20m cw sub-band. #Lets run those
cw rascals plum out of our new ham radio.

[kj4age]

I say get rid of Morse code and make the technical written exams tougher. Morse code is as obsolete as ancient egypt hieroglyphics. Sure its a wonderfull skill set however it has nothing to do with an Operators Judgment or Technical RF skills.

Test Knowledge not " thats the way its always been thinking"
kG4ZER

[W0UZR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Nov. 30 2003,23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just wish one person could come up with a real NECESSARY reason to keep the CW requirement. #Many have given great reasons to learn CW, and they're quite impressive. But not one person has made a single statement, to prove why CW is NECESSARY to advance in license class, and make anyone a better HF operator. #If anyone could do that, I would gladly concede, and pat you on the back as a wise person.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just like I said,,,,, Posted: Nov. 18 2003,20:54 # #

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know how CB sounds now? Is that the way you want your favorite band and frequencies to sound??

Go to CB and get used to it and learn to like it. Stay on CB for a long time, like 6 months to a year, and then maybe you will get to like it so you can stand your favorite HF band and frequencies if they eliminate code here.

I'm all for UPing the code requirements to 8 to 10 words a minute if I was going to change anything.


Get rid of the code, and you get what CB sounds like now. It keeps the rifraff out.


# # # # # # # # # # # # # # kb0uzr

[K3DAV]

KB0UZR:

Please tell me you were just kidding.

That is such a preposterous, and asinine statement for any amateur operator to make. I have heard some idiotic statements made against dropping the CW requirement, but yours takes the cake. The scary, and yet ironic part is, a person who knows CW made a statement that pathetic.


Nothing of the sort, will happen. HF is not like that now, and many of the HF amateurs came from CB radio, and many of THEM still use it today.

Next you're going to tell me that, keeping the CW rqeuirement will make the world safer from all out nuclear war. Maybe it will help keep the earth spinning at the proper speed. OH and here's the best one. When the FCC drops the CW requirement, they will add a new rule to part 97 that requires all amateurs to use echo mics, and install roger beeps into their equipment. And you must use them both, or face stiff fines for non-compliance.

Good grief man. Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you make it up on your own, or did you have a co-author? Time to wake up from the coma now.

[kd4mxe]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc7jty @ Nov. 29 2003,10:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CBer @ Nov. 18 2003,12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm glad they are too far away to usually
be heard here. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What the hell planet are you on?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The planet of the code cry babys thats where He is , 73s

[lu1dz]

The members of the Michigan Net strongly support the retention of the 5 word-per- minute telegraphy exam for High Frequency access. If it is necessary to endorse an existing Rule Making Petition, we recommend the FISTS petition, RM-10811. By doing so, the Commission will be making a strong case for a survivable, public service oriented Amateur Radio Service.

Michigan Net, QMN, Inc.
PO Box 457
Allegan, MI. 49010
269-673-8845
www.qsl.net/w8ihx/

http://gacw.no-ip.org http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3DAV]

To the Michigan Net.

According to the latest polls, the vast majority of hams, pro-coders, and no-coders alike, are in support of dropping the CW requirement. I think you're out-numbered by a lot.

Will this madness ever end?

[G8RLD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KB0UZR:

Please tell me you were just kidding.

That is such a preposterous, and asinine statement for any amateur operator to make. #I have heard some idiotic statements made against dropping the CW requirement, but yours takes the cake. # The scary, and yet ironic part is, a person who knows CW made a statement that pathetic.


Nothing of the sort, will happen. #HF is not like that now, and many of the HF amateurs came from CB radio, and many of THEM still use it today.

Next you're going to tell me that, keeping the CW rqeuirement will make the world safer from all out nuclear war. #Maybe it will help keep the earth spinning at the proper speed. OH and here's the best one. #When the FCC drops the CW requirement, they will add a new rule to part 97 that requires all amateurs to use echo mics, and install roger beeps into their equipment. #And you must use them both, or face stiff fines for non-compliance.

Good grief man. #Where do you come up with this stuff? #Do you make it up on your own, or did you have a co-author? #Time to wake up from the coma now.

--------------
David
>K3DAV< [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree completely with your comments David...that post was almost beyond belief. If anything is going to ruin the hobby it will be that sort of attitude and nothing whatsoever to do with whether Morse is no longer required. Unbelievable!

[vk4xjb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb0uzr @ Dec. 05 2003,21<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Get rid of the code, and you get what CB sounds like now. It keeps the rifraff out.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How does knowing morse code keep the rifraff out?

It has not stopped the people on hf that
1. currently swear
2. over drive their radios so their nomal < 3kHz wide signal is upto 9kHz wide splatter
3. deliberately tuneup on top of an exisiting conversation
4. deliberately start talking 2kHz or less from another conversation with the intent of causing interference

I have heard all of these on 40 & 20m where you need the higher licence classes in both Australia and America to operate.

If the pro morse code people really want others to learn the code why not encourage them to do so. Anything from 'if you start learning the code you can id the beacons on 10m so you know where the band is open to' to 'look how much easier it is to dig out the weak signals if cw is used instead of ssb'.

Giving a good reason to learn the code would be more effective then doom and gloom saying the world will end the week after tomorrow.

[G8RLD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The members of the Michigan Net strongly support the retention of the 5 word-per- minute telegraphy exam for High Frequency access. If it is necessary to endorse an existing Rule Making Petition, we recommend the FISTS petition, RM-10811. By doing so, the Commission will be making a strong case for a survivable, public service oriented Amateur Radio Service.

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>This is all getting just too funny for words - Looking at many of these posts, it appears that simply requiring a higher educational standard would do an absolutely splendid job of filtering recruits to the HF bands. What senseless thought is it that requiring Morse to qualify for HF does anything whatsoever to keep standards up, while the knowledge of grammar and spelling for many is of a lower standard than most 7th Graders - If you don't believe me, then just take a trip back through the numerous posts!
If you want to improve the standards, it has nothing to do with Morse and everything to do with technical knowledge and just a little more than basic education!

[9A3HP]

Any way #i #prefere #CW #, and #i #will #be #happy #if #some # when #i #calling #CQ #on #Morse, # answer #me #SSB, #no #problem. If #we #have #enough #space #on #HAM #band (of course #without #interfere #other #people) i'll # try #to #make #a #contact,why #not. #And #send #QSL #card.

Every #hobby #have two basic #reason ,
spend a #extra #time #and #something #to #learn. #More than this #is #not #hobby it #became occupation. Less #then this #reson is #nothing #than #boring.(Or #"hanging #around")
HAM #radio #is #hobby #and #need #a some extra #time(reason one) and #people #something #learn(reason two).


9A3HP # # Zoky

[K6UEY]

G8RLD,
Welcome Robert stateside, I think you may have discovered our closley guarded secret about education in this country. You see they do start them in on the basic's
of education, but it is so difficult and they cry and whine and insist they should not have to learn, because they do not expect to ever use it. Of course the level never exceeds the basics, to do so would embarass them and be a blow to their self esteem and that could lead to a #character infirmity that could damage them for the rest of their lives. So to counter act this disparaging blow each year the curriculum is lowered until they can reach High School graduation and no longer appear on the roll as an income item from the tax revenue. I believe if you survey the public school system in Clearwater, then compare to the no code argument you will immediately recognise the analogy.
Besides Robert where else can they be heard with all the whining and crying, #but on the Internet, since they can't qualify for Amateur #HF privileges . That unfair, difficult, outdated, element 1 has filtered them from making a fool of themselves and Ham Radio, to the rest of the world. #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #The very Best of Holiday Cheer to you and yours.....73, # ORV

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Besides Robert where else can they be heard with all the whining and crying, but on the Internet, since they can't qualify for Amateur HF privileges . That unfair, difficult, outdated, element 1 has filtered them from making a fool of themselves and Ham Radio, to the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Besides Robert, where else can you hear the trolls make up such unbelievable arguments, and use the CW requirement as a crutch to disguise the real reason for wanting to keep it.

The real reason is, they consider themselves better than everyone that has a lower class license than they do. To themselves, they are the elite amateur operators, and they need something to keep out the (low life) Technician class operators that can't grasp on to CW. To them, we are just VHF CB'ers. They will never admit that there are people that can't grasp CW, even though they know it's true. Because if they did admit it, they would be admitting the that they are wrong.

Requiring CW to upgrade a license, is the last crutch they have to keep out us lower class VHF CB'ers. And it's killing them just knowing that their last crutch will go bye bye shortly, and the country club will have to let the minorities come through their big steel doors.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[K6UEY]

I could not have made my point more eloquently. I rest my case ........ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wk0p]

It is amazing how people continue to think that Morse Code is obsolete...I will take their weak arguements against the code a step further: #I think ALL of the modes are obsolete. Why should I spend time and money on extra equipment, antennas, poor band conditions, etc. when all I have to do is pick up a cell phone and call anyone in the world anytime I want. #

With this poor mentality, the dumbification of our great pastime will slowly erode like many other facets of life already have. #

Now that the FCC has allowed profanity, and once they decide on whether or not to keep the code requirement in the states, they (and the IARU) can spend thousands of hours in man power and meetings to come up with some Code abbreviations for us to send profanity quickly and efficiently. What a joke!

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W0RER @ Dec. 24 2003,13:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is amazing how people continue to think that Morse Code is obsolete...#[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Obviously, you have not been paying attention. The petitions before the FCC is to remove the CW REQUIREMENT to upgrade. NOT CW itself. CW will live forever, and never be obsolete, as long as there are those who still wish to use it. No-coders have no desire to get rid of CW for those who enjoy it. It is one of many modes of choice, and always will be.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I will take their weak arguements against the code a step further: I think ALL of the modes are obsolete. Why should I spend time and money on extra equipment, antennas, poor band conditions, etc. when all I have to do is pick up a cell phone and call anyone in the world anytime I want? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I would have to answer that question bluntly, because you are not a real amateur operator, and don't deserve a license. The question doesn't even come close to that of a real amateur. DX with several European contacts on your cell phone. And if the argument is so weak, then how come the majority of letters to the FCC are in favor of dropping the CW requirement.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">With this poor mentality, the dumbification of our great pastime will slowly erode like many other facets of life already have. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And one of those facets of life that have eroded quickly, is amateurs that prefere to Elmer the no-coders? Instead you would rather whine about them invading YOUR band.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now that the FCC has allowed profanity, and once they decide on whether or not to keep the code requirement in the states, they (and the IARU) can spend thousands of hours in man power and meetings to come up with some Code abbreviations for us to send profanity quickly and efficiently. What a joke![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's just too stupid to reply to. Talk about dumbing down.

[wk0p]

K3DAV...Way to miss my points entirely while at the same time having an attitude for a reason of which I am unsure.

It was also a poor attempt at trying to pick apart every sentence. But you did a great job at reading a #lot into each sentence that made no sense to me.

First, I have been paying attention and there are many who believe that Morse Code is obsolete so they have the "why should I have to learn it" mentality (probably like you). This is my opinion from all of the letters I have read on the subject. #I may be wrong, but then again, you may be wrong, too.

Second, you say I am not a "...real amateur and don't deserve a license..." Why you would write something like that? #That just shows who I am dealing with on the other end. #Not only is it not cool, it makes you sound ignorant. #What is the difference between a real and a fake amateur? According to whom? #C'mon, if you are going to make ridiculous statements like the ones you have made on this site, try to make them a bit more sensible. It adds a little credibility to what you say.
You missed the point entirely, but you have done that on other posts of yours that I have seen on the site...I will spell it out for you: The point is, all of the modes are obsolete if you really think about it. #Why put up with the hassles found with all of the modes when today we have cell phones. #I am just pointing out that if people think CW is obsolete, then I suppose all of them are. #I do not really believe this, but with the arguement that CW is obsolete, one could infer this. #I am not saying that we do DX with cell phones , just that you can call anywhere 24/7 if you don't want to put up with the normal problems of getting on the air. It is a dumb thought, but that is the arguement the people in favor of dropping the code are using.

Next, you took my quote about the dumbification of amateur radio, as the others, completely the wrong way. Like it or not, the dumbification of our pastime is a reality. #Code or no code, it really doesn't matter. It is much easier now to obtain a license that it ever has been. # With the loss of a CW test, it will be even easier. #Why do you take everything so personally?

Finally, the line about the FCC was just a response to their ridiculous ruling regarding profanity on the air, be it commercial, amateur, etc. #Not sure why that got you all upset. The point there was to show how much time and effort they will waste on certain topics, no matter how stupid. The time and money wasted on deciding whether or not to keep a CW test is just as stupid.

You need to mellow out on here and lose the tough guy routine with the attitude problem. You make some valid points but probably lose face with a lot of users who read your messages because of the personal attacks and generalizations you use. #Take it all with a grain of salt and not as a personal attack on the no-code people.

Last thought...With all of the time all the no-code people waste ranting and raving on websites about how code is a waste of time, they could have learned the code...maybe even at 10WPM!

Merry Christmas!

[K3DAV]

Hello W0RER:

The problem with text forums is, we never get to hear the voice, or see the facial expressions, that help us to determine how the words were intended. You can read any post with anger, or a simple smile. Which one you use, depends largely on how you perceive the subject. Please read this post with a smile. That is how it is intended.

My words are never meant to insult or hurt anyone. If someone responds to me in kind, I will do the same. And if they respond as nothing more than an aggitator, they will get an equally appropriate response. If you feel that I have insulted you, then I humbly appologize. It was not intended that way.

My response was directed at the question, and not you personally. Anyone can use a cell phone to talk anywhere they wish, but that goes against what a real amateur feels. IMO, a REAL amateur is an amateur that has love and respect for radio as it is. It matters not that it is outdated. It's the spirit of radio that lives in your heart. Every DX contact is as exciting as the first. Shooting that rope over the tree limb. Building equipment....you get the idea. There is no FAKE amateur. You either think of radio like a CB'er, or you are a real radio operator. That's part of what it means to be an amateur op. That's just my view of it.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been paying attention and there are many who believe that Morse Code is obsolete so they have the "why should I have to learn it" mentality (probably like you). This is my opinion from all of the letters I have read on the subject. I may be wrong, but then again, you may be wrong, too.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are correct, and unfortunately, some no-coders feel just that way. But most do not agree with that statement. I do NOT have a "Why should I have to learn it" mentality. Now should I take that as a personal attack? I hope not. I want to get on HF so bad, I can taste it. It had given me the incentive to learn the code, but I have failed time and time again. 11 times in fact. I'm tired of wasting time and money to learn a MODE that I do not desire to ever use, and just can NOT grasp. There are many good operators just like me, that are in the same boat. But we are held back by a mode that is not outdated, but a requirement that is unnecessary. Not everyone can learn CW. That is a fact that most amateurs know very well, but can never admit to. Because that would be admitting they were wrong, and they can't do that.

We all became amateurs for mostly the same reasons. To better ourselves, and enjoy the hobby. I have Elmered new amateurs by teaching the text, and not by memorizing the exam questions. That's how it should be. When the CW requirement is dropped, and I become a General, I will Elmer new Generals in the same manner. I will help them do it the right way to be good operators. I will NOT look down my nose at them if they make a few mistakes. That also, is how it should be.

The statement about the FCC and language did not upset me in the least. My comment of being too stupid refered directly to the FCC's decision. Not to you. I should have been more detailed. Again, my appologies.

That's what I meant about not hearing the voice, or seeing the facial expressions. This is why these subjects should never be discussed in text forums like this. Most of the comments are never taken the way they were intended, and the arguments just sky rocket to nowhere.

Take care, and Happy Holidays W0RER. 73

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Dec. 23 2003,21:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Besides Robert where else can they be heard with all the whining and crying, #but on the Internet, since they can't qualify for Amateur #HF privileges . That unfair, difficult, outdated, element 1 has filtered them from making a fool of themselves and Ham Radio, to the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Besides Robert, where else can you hear the trolls make up such unbelievable arguments, and use the CW requirement as a crutch to disguise the real reason for wanting to keep it.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

In the comments leading up to the last restructuring of the license class.

But no, your red herring is no better than theirs. There are many proponents of keeping the code test, but only a few who adopt the elitist argument. Most, correctly, observe that element 1 is an easy test. They merely wish to keep some traditions.

As someone who has watched the world change dramatically in his life time, I can appreciate this desire for continuity.

As someone who has sometimes aided the changing, I can appreciate the desire to jetison seemingly antiquated practice.

What I can't appreciate is the tendency of the extreme on both sides of the argument to personalize the issue and use it as an attack on the character of those they disagree with.

It would help if we all remembered that most of us are supporting what we believe is best for the hobby, and to keep in mind that reasonable people can disagree.

[K3DAV]

Well put Marty. Point taken. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif OK ! Great ! Let`s drop Driver licence Exam, Uni Exams, and so forth..let`s drop any society sellection,let`s be more primitive and get backwards..Let`s jump back on trees..!
VK2EKY

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (VK2EKY @ Jan. 01 2004,07:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif OK ! Great ! Let`s drop Driver licence Exam, Uni Exams, and #so forth..let`s drop any society sellection,let`s be more primitive and get backwards..Let`s jump back on trees..!
VK2EKY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
By that statement, it sounds like you never stopped swinging from trees. The things you mentioned are NECESSARY to their functions.

CW remains a choice, but not necessary to operate a radio properly. You guys still can't grasp on to that little fact, can you?

Keep trying, but you will never come up with a NECESSARY reason for CW other than as a simple choice of mode to TX with.

Happy New Year and good DX to all of the new great no-code HF operators in VK land.

[K6UEY]

K3DAV,
Dave if you are so bent on the necessities,are you willing to give up your cell phone ,and how about your computer, lets not forget the DVD's none of them are necessary part of life,they are merely tools to justify being lazy. Many generations have survived with out them and done so quite successfully.And what about your automobile,is it really necessary or is it merely an another mode of transportation.I think like the rusty bucket your theory does not hold water......73, # ORV
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 02 2004,05:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K3DAV,
Dave if you are so bent on the necessities,are you willing to give up your cell phone ,and how about your computer, lets not forget the DVD's none of them are necessary part of life,they are merely tools to justify being lazy. Many generations have survived with out them and done so quite successfully.And what about your automobile,is it really necessary or is it merely an another mode of transportation.I think like the rusty bucket your theory does not hold water......73, # ORV
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for making the first comparison in favor of no-code.

Having a cell phone, computer, DVD's,and CW are a choice you make for yourself. But not necessities. Just because they are not necessary, doesn't mean you can't have or use them. That has been the point all along that you have been missing. Thanks for your help. And these devices have nothing to do with being lazy. Obviously you have a PC, and I'll bet you have a cell phone, and use a remote control for your TV. Many generations did just fine without a home telephone also. But I'll bet you wouldn't give your up. Gee! Does that mean you are lazy, Mr. Coder?

I can see you are trying your best, grabbing straws, but you will never come up with a real reason why the element 1 test is NECESSARY to properly operate a radio.

BTW. A car IS a necessity these days. I'm sure not going to walk 35 miles to work every day, or pay $75. a day for a taxi, and no busses go there.

My bucket is brand new and water tight. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[VK2LEE]

[B]It was great to work all the New (Non CW) Hams on 1st January on 15 meters. At least now when I put out a call on 15 meters, I usually get a reply from a non CW
Ham Radio operator from somewhere in Australia...
Its great, the FCC should really follow Australia's lead and stop making future Hams learn something they are NOT going to Use. If You insist they learn CW, They can be taught to send & receive CW with their computer... along with anything else.. its much easier too.... especially to the Computer literate people who want to be a Ham, and I don't believe any of the HF Ham Bands will ever be like CB Radio...
Lee VK2LEE

[VK2LEE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb0uzr @ Nov. 18 2003,20:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you know how CB sounds now? Is that the way you want your favorite band and frequencies to sound??

# # # # # # # # # # # # # #kb0uzr[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Rubbish.... Since the 1st January, You can actually find someone to talk to on 80m at night and 15m during the day. The thousand or so NEW Codeless Hams are a welcome sight & sound on our HF Bands.
None of them sound like a good buddy, and realistically, none of them would want to be Your "Buddy".
Ham numbers are decreasing in Australia... and We needed to get some new blood on the HF Bands..
Well, We have succeeded, and the rest of the world will soon follow.... I have spoken to codeless Hams on HF for the first time, who have been restricted to VHF-UHF for 20 years and more because they had Passed ALL exams, but not learnt the code... and to many of the "new" codeless novice hams, and still haven't found a "good buddy".... All the good buddies are still where they belong... on CB...
Knowledge has nothing to do with CW.... IMHO..
It was put there to keep out anyone who refused to tow the line and learn it.... As I said - CW has nothing to do with knowledge.... Anyone can send and receive CW with a computer program..... and the Majority of these New Hams do have computers.....

Lee Noonan VK2LEE in codeless Australia ...

[VK2LEE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (VK2EKY @ Jan. 01 2004,04:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif OK ! Great ! Let`s drop Driver licence Exam, Uni Exams, and #so forth..let`s drop any society sellection,let`s be more primitive and get backwards..Let`s jump back on trees..!
VK2EKY[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
[B] You can go jump back in Your tree VK2EKY, but I'll be too busy talking to all these new codeless Hams now on our HF Bands....
CW has passed its used by date, it was used on the titanic but is no longer used on ships.
CW can be sent & received with a computer program,
so it doesn't have to be learnt anymore.... and the majority of these New Hams do have computers....

Lee VK2LEE in codeless Australia...

[K6UEY]

VK2LEE,
Lee I had a full page addressed to you and Dave but for the 3rd time now this GD program ate my copy,it discussed the fact I don't and do refuse to use a cell phone, totally unnecessary, and even the singular phone in the house is for emergencies only. And I was sympathetic that Dave could not leave an hour early to walk to work,its only 35 miles he should do that in less than an hour. OR maybe it's uphill both ways.
The bands must be totally different down under, for the last 25 years I have talked to 15 to 20 every night on 75 meters some times we lost propagation due to sun up.
As far as computers doing the copy for you BOY!! do you have a surprise coming. Some programs can copy CW sent by another computer but when sent manually the computer is only good for a door stop. Don't believe all this NCI propaganda it is mostly lies, CW is still used or at least by the US Gov. and as far as the US following other countries, we don't follow, we lead.
He who follows another sees nothing,learns nothing, nay,seeks nothing. # #.... Sir William Osler
Why should a US Amateur learn code, because it is a requirement to become a Ham.
Lee I do agree on the fact that learning code has nothing to do with knowledge, any complete DUMMY can learn code, on the US test it is the only test of skill in the testing for an Amateur license. Of course if you have no knowledge and no skill you can still qualify for a CB license.
Dave I'm curious, the pro-code people have expressed their intentions if the standards are lowered by dropping the code, what are you and all the NCI people going to do if the code is retained and maybe put back to the original levels. Since NCI claims to be international are you going to have a world demostration or some thing, maybe at the stroke of 12 GMT all NCI'ers will hold their breath for 15 minutes.... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
It has been nice talking at you both, maybe we will catch you on CW some night......73, # #ORV
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Jan. 11 2004,08:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dave I'm curious, the pro-code people have expressed their intentions if the standards are lowered by dropping the code, what are you and all the NCI people going to do if the code is retained and maybe put back to the original levels. Since NCI claims to be international are you going to have a world demostration or some thing, maybe at the stroke of 12 GMT all NCI'ers will hold their breath for 15 minutes.... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
It has been nice talking at you both, maybe we will catch you on CW some night......73, # #ORV
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't know or care about NCI, or what they do. I only speak for myself. And there are no, "WHAT IF's". The CW requirement WILL be dropped in the USA. It is foolish to think that the FCC will allow our own amateurs to talk to non-CW operators on HF from around the world, and not have it's own non-CW HF operators.

Many countries have FOLLOWED our lead with democracy.
Many countries have FOLLOWED our lead in technology.
The USA could learn a thing or two about health care and employment from many other countries.
Following anything that works is not a bad thing.

Dropping the CW requirement will increase the number of many good amateur op's on the HF bands, just as it has in several other countries. They are not having any of the problems that you are claiming we will have, so why would you think we will have them? In fact, they are all boasting good things happening as a result of the CW requirement being dropped in their countries.

The only thing that could hurt us here WHEN the CW requirement is dropped is, the big egos, and bad attitudes of those who think they own the HF bands, just because they know CW. If everyone will just act like human beings, we won't have any problems.

Like I've said before. Hams help! Not hinder!

It's been nice talking to you too ORV, and maybe we'll catch you on HF SSB some night in the near future. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Dave.

[K6UEY]

HI DAVE ,
Well I'm sure you are smart enough to know a couple of months is hardly a sufficient sample to judge by. So looking to those countries for leadership is ridiculous,the reason they dropped the CW requirements was to make the monitoring job for officials easier it had nothing to do with their ops crying it's too hard,or CW not being used elsewhere. I can think of absolutely no reason why the FCC would restrict US Hams from talking to non CW operators any where in the world, or any reason why they would even care, as long as we follow part 97 and don't go into the foriegn part of the band.
Dropping the code and allowing HF use will not put GOOD operators on HF ,what it will do instead is turn loose a group of inexperienced operators who do not understand conditions or propagation and in most cases would not recognize a good or bad signal if they were sitting on it,but then again turn about is fair play,other countries are turning their inexperienced operators on us #so they can all fight amongst themselves just like on the part 95 service.I hope they leave enough room for the experienced operators to go to avoid all that chaos.
As to the Health care ,yes there is room for improvement but all the countries who have Health Care plans are the socialist countries, there are many in Congress who try to push us in that direction, but even to the ignorant it is a hard sell. As to employment as long as those same people try to push us to the left and organized labor forces labor overseas it is going to be a problem. Look at the 8 year stint we are just starting to recover from. I even had a bet on that the American Voters were not that stupid, they would never stand for the second term, but I guess they were impressed with the unemployment and sick economy they relected for the second term and proved me wrong about them.
Well Dave we will listen for you on CW or listen for you in a couple of years on the phone band when the FCC makes it's ruling #that CW remains. # #73, # ORV

[oe8soq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ko7r @ Dec. 01 2003,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, it may be NECESSARY to make getting a ham license just a quickie little test, a formality, and the outlay of a few bucks. #That will make it all easier. #And in our modern gone-crazy world, it seems that ease has become necessity. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As this board is mainly used by US-Hams, there is verry seldom posting from outside.
You all harassing against droping the code requirement are just looking on your own LITTLE island called USA.

Elswhere on the globe, the remainding 95% (thumb-estimate) of radio amateurs and especially in the CEPT ruled countries, do have to study the WHOLE program to get VHF/UHF privileges. The step to be an HF-HAM has only been the code test at 5wpm. No difference in the questionaire.PERIODE. And for those of you talking about a nifty little formality: does your TECHNICIAN have to know all the extra class answers to get their ticket?

Unlike in the US, not everywhere has to be paid for the TEST, it is done by the governmental authorities, but you have to pay a yearly fee depending on the power allowance (e.g. 400 or 1000 watts in OE $ 50.-).

In Austria - OE land (no cangoroohs) the code requirements are dropped, as recommendet at the WRC 2003 at Geneva/HB9 but they did not put the following sentence in the law:

It is not allowed to transmit in CW mode[U][B]

Instead, they stated in this new Austrian Amateur Radio Law, that there it is still possible to take the code test voluntairily, as long as there will be examinators available.

So at the end of this post, good luck, Good DX and BIG FUN to all the newcomers on the HF bands, down under, in the UK, and in most of the EU.

I have to congratulate all of the telecommunication authorities who did follow the recommendations of the WRC. They were concludet for the good future of amateur radio.

73 de DL/OE8SOQ
current QTH near STUTTGART, Germany

See you an the bands!!

[K3DAV]

Hello Helmut. I wish more people from outside the USA would post on QRZ.

You may know a friend of mine, Jochen DG2IAQ. He lives just outside Stuttgart. We comunicate by email and Echolink from time to time.

There are many of the hardnosed old timers, like ORV, that are afraid of change in amateur radio here. I can't say that I blame them. They don't want to see amateur radio become like CB radio. I don't want that either. But they are worrying about nothing. Amateur radio will do just fine without the CW requirement.

K6UEY (ORV), mentioned that the new HF operators will not have any experience. But that is true of all new HF operators. Nobody has experience if they have never been there before. Even ORV was a new HF operator at one time, with no experience. You don't get experience by learning CW. You get experience by listening and talking.

There are many like me, that have been serious Short Wave radio DX'ers for many years. I have built more antennas than I can remember. And I completely understand about the HF bands and it's propagation and conditions. I have been talking on the HF bands through an Extra class friend for a long time. And I didn't need CW to figure it out.

I don't know how anyone can say "Dropping the code and allowing HF use will not put GOOD operators on HF." That is so pre-judgemental on a subject that has no proof that will happen.

The sad part Helmut, is when the CW requirement is dropped in the USA, and everything continues to work out just fine, not one of the no-code bashing, CW operators will say they are sorry for being so rude to us. But I guess that's how Americans are.

Take care Helmut.