RAC recommends Morse dropped, new exams.

[G8RLD]

I have a respect for much of what Mark suggests and have no problem in granting additional frequency and/or power privilges to those that want to "go the extra mile" for an Extra. Seems very fair to me. What I have a problem with is to prevent very competent operators from experiencing HF operation. The knowledge of morse code should not be a pre-requisite for operation on HF, it should be technical knowledge and a sound knowledge of operating technique. This argument is getting far too emotional and although I fully appreciate (and possibly I would think in the same way) why people that studied and obtained their morse qualification should think "I had to, why shouldn't they have to" but time moves on. If you want to "filter" people onto HF then make it a sensible reason - education and technical knowledge. As far as the socialist-leaning Western European counties, one hopes that you are not referring to Great Britain, their decisions are based on a less bureaucratic system and I have to say that they have generally #high operating standards generally. A listen on 75m here and 80m in the UK will reveal the difference. 80m does not normally sound like 27MHz. I live on both sides of the Atlantic so I do know what I am talking about.
When I obtained my licence back in 1978, it wasn't an option to choose from multiple answers, you actually had to know how to answer the questions. I built my own equipment back in the '80's and I don't have morse code, but operate satellite, 6m and various digital modes.
Let's just get this argument out of the way and move forward to more serious issues!

[WA9SVD]

AG4RQ:
Mark, I mostly agree. But I can't ever imagine the FCC going to a HIGHER Morse speed, even for EXTRA. They as much as said they only kept the 5 WPM exam to satisfy the Int'l treaty, which is now gone. I sort of liked a suggestion by W1RFI: General and Extra listen to the same 5 minutes of Morse. The Extra pass the Morse portion as it currently exists; seperate from the rest of the exam; the Generals answer questions on their written exan with the same weight as the other questions on the exam.
Again, I'm looking at the practical side, what the FCC will do for their own benefit and ease of operation, and compatibility with the Amateur Regulations of other countries.

[N3TTN]

All of this debate is probably moot anyway. The FCC seems determined to drop code testing and possibly merge license classes down to two, in the name of "streamlining". Some information I have read around the net, and heard on the air suggests this could happen sometime in the spring of 2004. I know that historically, the FCC usually takes up to two years to implement rulemaking, but in this case the consensus seems to be that they want this to happen sooner rather than later. The writing is on the wall it would seem, and any techs who want to upgrade should start preparing for the general exam. Personally, I'm headed all the way to extra when the time comes.


73, N3TTN

[ag4rq]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N3TTN @ Nov. 17 2003,08http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All of this debate is probably moot anyway. The FCC seems determined to drop code testing and possibly merge license classes down to two, in the name of "streamlining". Some information I have read around the net, and heard on the air suggests this could happen sometime in the spring of 2004. I know that historically, the FCC usually takes up to two years to implement rulemaking, but in this case the consensus seems to be that they want this to happen sooner rather than later. The writing is on the wall it would seem, and any techs who want to upgrade should start preparing for the general exam. Personally, I'm headed all the way to extra when the time comes.


73, N3TTN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You are absolutely correct. The FCC doesn't pay attention to these boards. The only thing they do look at is the comments made to the RM proposals. I commented on all 13. I personally hope that you're wrong about code testing being dropped by next year. I hope they weigh and measure all the comments and come to an equitable common sense decision that most of us can live with. The Extra license right now is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. A codeless Extra license would be worth about as much as a CB license was in 1978. I learned 5 wpm code for my General. When I upgraded to Extra, I just had to take the written exam. There was no further code test necessary. I feel like I got a cheap Extra. I don't feel like I earned it. I did more to earn the General. Today, the highest level of license is a joke. Removing the code requirement will make it a Cracker Jack give-away.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Nov. 16 2003,21:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AG4RQ:
Mark, I mostly agree. But I can't ever imagine the FCC going to a HIGHER Morse speed, even for EXTRA. They as much as said they only kept the 5 WPM exam to satisfy the Int'l treaty, which is now gone. I sort of liked a suggestion by W1RFI: General and Extra listen to the same 5 minutes of Morse. The Extra pass the Morse portion as it currently exists; seperate from the rest of the exam; the Generals answer questions on their written exan with the same weight as the other questions on the exam.
Again, I'm looking at the practical side, what the FCC will do for their own benefit and ease of operation, and compatibility with the Amateur Regulations of other countries.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Larry,
Although I would rather have the Element 1 requirements remain intact for General and Extra, I could live with what Ed Hare suggested. As for compatibility with the Amateur Regulations of other countries, it will never come to pass for the reasons I stated in my last post to you. The communist countries and former communist countries will never drop their code requirements. Also, unlike our country which only trains special forces in the use of Morse code, those countries see the value in training all military personnel in Morse code, and highly encourages the civilian population to learn it.

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are absolutely correct. The FCC doesn't pay attention to these boards. The only thing they do look at is the comments made to the RM proposals. I commented on all 13. I personally hope that you're wrong about code testing being dropped by next year. I hope they weigh and measure all the comments and come to an equitable common sense decision that most of us can live with. The Extra license right now is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. A codeless Extra license would be worth about as much as a CB license was in 1978. I learned 5 wpm code for my General. When I upgraded to Extra, I just had to take the written exam. There was no further code test necessary. I feel like I got a cheap Extra. I don't feel like I earned it. I did more to earn the General. Today, the highest level of license is a joke. Removing the code requirement will make it a Cracker Jack give-away. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


OK, fair enough. I can respect anyones opinion so long as it is presented in a calm, rational manner such as yours. One addendum to my previous comments: The only reason that the FCC takes "petitions" on issues like this is because they are required to by law, otherwise they would be telling us all to kiss their grits, they will do what they damn well please with THEIR radio spectrum, and make no mistake about it, it is THEIR spectrum, and we only use it at their pleasure. The FCC could care less what a bunch of "hobbyists" thinks or wants.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G8RLD @ Nov. 16 2003,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have a respect for much of what Mark suggests and have no problem in granting additional frequency and/or power privilges to those that want to "go the extra mile" for an Extra. Seems very fair to me. What I have a problem with is to prevent very competent operators from experiencing HF operation. The knowledge of morse code should not be a pre-requisite for operation on HF, it should be technical knowledge and a sound knowledge of operating technique. This argument is getting far too emotional and although I fully appreciate (and possibly I would think in the same way) why people that studied and obtained their morse qualification should think "I had to, why shouldn't they have to" but time moves on. If you want to "filter" people onto HF then make it a sensible reason - education and technical knowledge. As far as the socialist-leaning Western European counties, one hopes that you are not referring to Great Britain, their decisions are based on a less bureaucratic system and I have to say that they have generally high operating standards generally. A listen on 75m here and 80m in the UK will reveal the difference. 80m does not normally sound like 27MHz. I live on both sides of the Atlantic so I do know what I am talking about.
When I obtained my licence back in 1978, it wasn't an option to choose from multiple answers, you actually had to know how to answer the questions. I built my own equipment back in the '80's and I don't have morse code, but operate satellite, 6m and various digital modes.
Let's just get this argument out of the way and move forward to more serious issues![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am not proposing to exclude codeless hams from HF. See my previous posts. As for GB, I'd like to know how hams that did learn code for their HF privileges feel about the no-coders being put on an equal plane with them with no further test and no further work. I'm willing to bet they are just as outraged as we Americans are at the thought of that happening here. I'd also like to know how hams that learned code for HF privileges in the other countries that dropped their code requirements feel about codeless hams being granted equal privileges with them, also with no further test or work. I've seen what one Irish ham posted. He wasn't too happy. The WRC's decision last July opened up a can of worms that is causing divisions in ham radio worldwide.

[WA9SVD]

AG4RQ,
Mark, I feel (fear?) the FCC does what it wants. While they may take some note in the petitions and comments, which are of primary importance to we Amateur Operators, those petitions, etc. are but a small part of their agenda, even if required by law. (Some of the people on this forum don't understand that Amateur Radio is NOT the most important, TOP PRIORITY of the FCC! Sad, but true. Amateur Radio is but a small part of the FCC's total responsibility.)
With that in mind, the FCC will do whatever is in THEIR best interest, (i.e. less paperwork, etc.) in keeping with International agreements. Since there are NO Amateur Radio Operators on the current Commission, I fear we are at a further disadvantage in regards to rule making. But we can't second guess any decisions that will be made. I just hope they choose wisely when they finally make a ruling. (And there will eventually be other rulings on the code made in the future.)
I hope to meet you on the air sometime. Best regards.

Larry WA9SVD

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Nov. 17 2003,10:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AG4RQ,
Mark, I feel (fear?) the FCC does what it wants. While they may take some note in the petitions and comments, which are of primary importance to we Amateur Operators, those petitions, etc. are but a small part of their agenda, even if required by law. (Some of the people on this forum don't understand that Amateur Radio is NOT the most important, TOP PRIORITY of the FCC! Sad, but true. Amateur Radio is but a small part of the FCC's total responsibility.)
With that in mind, the FCC will do whatever is in THEIR best interest, (i.e. less paperwork, etc.) in keeping with International agreements. Since there are NO Amateur Radio Operators on the current Commission, I fear we are at a further disadvantage in regards to rule making. But we can't second guess any decisions that will be made. I just hope they choose wisely when they finally make a ruling. (And there will eventually be other rulings on the code made in the future.)
I hope to meet you on the air sometime. Best regards.

Larry WA9SVD[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Larry, you are absolutely right about the FCC. The trend that they've been following for more than two decades is ironclad proof of that. I only hope that amateur radio doesn't see the same kind of deregulation that the Citizen's Radio Service has seen. The reason for this trend is the good old bottom line. That's what all the trimming has been about. Obviously, the FCC's needs aren't important enough to warrant the kind of budget they need. Hence, close field offices, give testing over to volunteers, streamline licensing, virtually eliminate enforcement, and on and on. Where does it stop? Why not just give all the non-commercial wireless services and the administration of them over to NTIA? Probably due to budget constraints there also. Regarding future changes in the Amateur Radio Service, I also hope the path of common sense is followed. I did what I had to do by commenting on all the petitions. There’s nothing left for me to do. The rest is up to the decision-makers in Gettysburg.

I also would like to talk with you on the air. You seem to be a levelheaded rational type guy that one can have an intelligent conversation with.

73,
Mark
AG4RQ

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N3TTN @ Nov. 17 2003,09:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are absolutely correct. The FCC doesn't pay attention to these boards. The only thing they do look at is the comments made to the RM proposals. I commented on all 13. I personally hope that you're wrong about code testing being dropped by next year. I hope they weigh and measure all the comments and come to an equitable common sense decision that most of us can live with. The Extra license right now is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. A codeless Extra license would be worth about as much as a CB license was in 1978. I learned 5 wpm code for my General. When I upgraded to Extra, I just had to take the written exam. There was no further code test necessary. I feel like I got a cheap Extra. I don't feel like I earned it. I did more to earn the General. Today, the highest level of license is a joke. Removing the code requirement will make it a Cracker Jack give-away. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


OK, fair enough. I can respect anyones opinion so long as it is presented in a calm, rational manner such as yours. One addendum to my previous comments: The only reason that the FCC takes "petitions" on issues like this is because they are required to by law, otherwise they would be telling us all to kiss their grits, they will do what they damn well please with THEIR radio spectrum, and make no mistake about it, it is THEIR spectrum, and we only use it at their pleasure. The FCC could care less what a bunch of "hobbyists" thinks or wants.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I did what I felt I had to do with the thirteen petitions. If it was in vain, I can't help that. But, at least I could say I tried. I did the same thing with the BPL NOI. Those who leave the legwork to others, while doing nothing themselves have no right to complain when something isn't to their liking. Unless more code-related petitions pop up, my task is finished. All I have left to do is wait and see what the end result will be. That is all any of us can do. The decision lies with Gettysburg. Whatever that decision is, I can say that my conscience is clear.

One thing that perplexes me is:
You've been licensed since 1994, one year longer than I have been licensed. If you want HF privileges as bad as you do (obviously you do, as your goal is Extra), why haven't you learned enough code to pass the test? By the time the code requirement was lowered to 5 wpm for General and Extra, I had no excuse. I got my General on 4/15/2000, the very date that license restructuring went into effect.

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One thing that perplexes me is:
You've been licensed since 1994, one year longer than I have been licensed. If you want HF privileges as bad as you do (obviously you do, as your goal is Extra), why haven't you learned enough code to pass the test? By the time the code requirement was lowered to 5 wpm for General and Extra, I had no excuse. I got my General on 4/15/2000, the very date that license restructuring went into effect.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Here's the deal, after I got my ticket in 94' (as you noted) I was pretty active for about a year. Thereafter, the demands of family and career took precedence, and amateur radio was put pretty much on the back burner until just recently. The fact is I have not even owned a radio since about mid 96', until about two months ago when I decided to get back into hamming as much as my time permits. I make no apologies for my operating history, and up to this point my tech ticket has afforded me all the ham radio opportunities I needed, wanted, or had the time for. As I approach retirement from a long career in government service, and my kids approach college age, I can see the time in the not too distant future where I will want to devote more time and energy to the hobby. All of this is still a few years down the road mind you, and when I'm ready I will upgrade my ticket regardless of whether the code requirement is still in place or not. That being said, I have always found the code (yes, even 5wpm) terribly elusive, but have always had a natural affinity for the theory and technical aspects, so if the code should be dropped in the future, I would find no shame in advancing up the ladder with tests that did not include element 1 as a requirement. I hope you can respect my position on this, and it has nothing to do with any lack of respect for those that came before me that had to learn the code. I hope this helps to explain my situation to you a little more clearly. BTW Mark, congratulations to you on making General and then Extra, my hat is off to you and I hope to join you someday.

73, N3TTN

[G8RLD]

Well, I have no desire to draw comparisons between the UK and here but I do qualify to comment as I live on both sides of the Atlantic. I have to say that almost without exception, there has not been anything but positive comment following the elimination of morse code as a requirement for HF in the UK. Most welcome the new recruits to HF with a positive attitude and any passing comment is no more that the comments made when the theory examination was changed to multiple answer testing some years ago! By the same token, there isn't a reduction in interest for morse and the RSGB is about to start morse code competence testing in December for those with an interest in learning morse code - because they want to, not because they have to.
Australia ends the morse code requirement on the 1st Jan 2004 and word has it that Sweden is also about to make the change.
For goodness sake, let's get on with other much more important issues and welcome new recruits to HF in a positive way.

[KG4VLQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Oct. 30 2003,21:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hobbiests, true enough, but...
RACES and all it's downline hardly fit that description.
Backup, and fill-in emergency communications, and comm from community centers, hospitals, and even some security in places. #We can be places the public service agencies can't, as they would be spread too thin, and pass messages they can't, as they are either interservice, or personal.
Find an ACS/ARES/RACES group in your area, and check it out on the air when they have a drill. #A dual band rig is real handy. #HF in addition is a plus, as they are on HF, 2m and 70cm out here. #2m local coordination plus some simplex EOC-EOC communications, 70cm, Medical, and other EOC-EOC comm. #HF for out of area comm.

It's a hobby, until it comes down to the wire, and then the mode shifts.
It isn't a hobby anymore, it's a service.

BTW, ACS etc have scheduled nets. #Visitor checkins are more than welcome..

Almost forgot to return this to the thread http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Morse operators would be needed in adverse operating conditions which many disasters might create.
VHF/UHF is great for local comm, but HF is what gets out, and a number of scenarios make HF completely useless for voice.

Just the facts as I see 'em.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD7WHQ,

Loved your reply! No, it isn't just a "hobby" anymore. It hasn't been for many years. I'd love some time to try to see how many "professional" changes to modern radio were made by keen-minded Hams with an idea and a new twist. Mr. Inoue of ICOM graduated from High School and said in his interview that he learned everything he knew about Radio from the Amateur Service. He runs quite a large company and they make good equipment, imo, though sometimes lacking, as all brands are at times, no doubt.

A good friend of mine who passed away some time ago, Carl Schoneman was an EE. We used to talk about Ham and the Amateur Service and he tought highly of Hams. He's the one who persuaded me to go for it and I did about a year after he passed away. No, so-called Amateurs do some incredible things.

73
frank
KG4VLQ

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N3TTN @ Nov. 17 2003,17:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One thing that perplexes me is:
You've been licensed since 1994, one year longer than I have been licensed. If you want HF privileges as bad as you do (obviously you do, as your goal is Extra), why haven't you learned enough code to pass the test? By the time the code requirement was lowered to 5 wpm for General and Extra, I had no excuse. I got my General on 4/15/2000, the very date that license restructuring went into effect.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


Here's the deal, after I got my ticket in 94' (as you noted) I was pretty active for about a year. Thereafter, the demands of family and career took precedence, and amateur radio was put pretty much on the back burner until just recently. The fact is I have not even owned a radio since about mid 96', until about two months ago when I decided to get back into hamming as much as my time permits. I make no apologies for my operating history, and up to this point my tech ticket has afforded me all the ham radio opportunities I needed, wanted, or had the time for. As I approach retirement from a long career in government service, and my kids approach college age, I can see the time in the not too distant future where I will want to devote more time and energy to the hobby. All of this is still a few years down the road mind you, and when I'm ready I will upgrade my ticket regardless of whether the code requirement is still in place or not. That being said, I have always found the code (yes, even 5wpm) terribly elusive, but have always had a natural affinity for the theory and technical aspects, so if the code should be dropped in the future, I would find no shame in advancing up the ladder with tests that did not include element 1 as a requirement. I hope you can respect my position on this, and it has nothing to do with any lack of respect for those that came before me that had to learn the code. I hope this helps to explain my situation to you a little more clearly. BTW Mark, congratulations to you on making General and then Extra, my hat is off to you and I hope to join you someday.

73, N3TTN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your circumstances with shelfing ham radio for a time is fully understandable and of course no apologies are necessary. You are obviously not one of the no-coders that has been waiting for a decade for the code requirement to be dropped in order to gain HF privileges. I fully respect your position and your outlook on things in the future. No one need be ashamed of how they got their ticket they are doing what the FCC requirements currently are, except those who are deliberately waiting for the code requirement to be dropped. I know that you are not one of them, but they do exist. Some have been waiting since the codeless Tech ticket was established in 1991. Those who become hams after a license restructuring can't help what the requirements are at the time they take a test. Your circumstances sort of put you in that category. I said what I said about myself because I am in a whole different set of circumstances. I have an electronics background. I went to school for electronics and received a commercial license from the FCC. Taking a mere written exam for Extra with no further code exam was no challenge for me. Under my circumstances, I don't feel like I earned it.

Seeking to upgrade your ticket regardless of whether the code requirement is still in place or not is a good healthy attitude and is admirable. I wish you the best in your endeavors and I hope to catch you on HF in the near future. I'll make a note of your callsign and I'll be listening for you down the road.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to make the detailed explanation in answer to my question.

73 de Mark
AG4RQ

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Seeking to upgrade your ticket regardless of whether the code requirement is still in place or not is a good healthy attitude and is admirable. I wish you the best in your endeavors and I hope to catch you on HF in the near future. I'll make a note of your callsign and I'll be listening for you down the road.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to make the detailed explanation in answer to my question.

73 de Mark
AG4RQ
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>



No problem Mark, it is always a pleasure to have a calm, rational discussion with someone like you. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to look at me as an individual, and not lump me in with some group. Sometimes, I think people tend to forget that there is a real person behind the name and callsign, with their own unique set of circumstances. I look forward to making your acquaintance on the air someday.


73, N3TTN

[ag4rq]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N3TTN @ Nov. 18 2003,06http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Seeking to upgrade your ticket regardless of whether the code requirement is still in place or not is a good healthy attitude and is admirable. I wish you the best in your endeavors and I hope to catch you on HF in the near future. I'll make a note of your callsign and I'll be listening for you down the road.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to make the detailed explanation in answer to my question.

73 de Mark
AG4RQ
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>



No problem Mark, it is always a pleasure to have a calm, rational discussion with someone like you. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to look at me as an individual, and not lump me in with some group. Sometimes, I think people tend to forget that there is a real person behind the name and callsign, with their own unique set of circumstances. I look forward to making your acquaintance on the air someday.


73, N3TTN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are many hams that take a hiatus from this hobby for one reason or another, whether it is lack of interest (boredom), too busy with work or family, study, a long-standing crisis or anything that demands a person's spare time once spent on hobby. Fortunately you weren't away from ham radio long enough to let your license expire. Some other hams did, and had to start from the beginning, taking the tests all over again.

Unlike some other pro-code hams, it is not the no-coders that I have a problem with. It's the attitude that many of them take. I have no problem with the no-coder who never upgrades, as long as they are content with privileges above 30 MHz and don't complain that they want HF access without taking a code test. Many of us entered this hobby as no-code Techs. Some were content with their privileges above 30 MHz and never upgraded. That's fine. No problem with that. Many more were not content with privileges above 30 MHz. They wanted HF and did what they had to do to get it without complaining about it. I am one of them. Then, there are those who stubbornly refuse to learn code. While they obnoxiously complain about the code requirement, they wait for its abolition. Like I said, some have been waiting since 1991. I remember reading a post from one such no-coder who outright made the statement that he knows he can learn code if he wanted to, but will never learn code because he doesn't want to. He, and others like him seethe with hatred and anger at the code requirement, while waiting for its abolition. The third group is the ones that don't think they could ever learn code. This group is unfortunate. They sell themselves short. They are of the mindset that they are actually incapable of learning code. They claim to have a hearing disability or a learning disability. They also complain to have the code requirement removed.

The absolute truth is that anyone can learn code. Some take to code like a duck takes to water. For others it takes a lot longer. But, anyone can learn code. It didn't come easy to me, but I did it. One's ability to learn Morse code is directly proportional to that person's desire to learn code. If a person has no desire to learn code and outright hates it, that person will not be able to learn code. As with anything, if you want it bad enough you will learn it. Another reason why people are of the mindset that they can't learn code is they give up too easily. When you feel that it is hopeless, that there's no possible way you can learn this stuff, that all the characters seem to sound the same and you're getting nowhere, you must not get frustrated and throw in the towel. It is at that point that you must keep going, keep persisting and keep enduring. The more you subject yourself to hearing the characters, the more familiar they will be to you. After some time, it will all start to click.

When I took my tech test in June 1995, I aced the exam. The VE told me to try the General. I didn't want to try. I said I didn't study for the General. He said, "What do you have to lose? You're here already and it won't cost you anything extra, just your time". So I took the General written exam. I passed it. I left the test session with a CSCE for the General written exam. The VE told me that I had a year to pass a 13 wpm code test to obtain my General. I bought the Gordon West code tapes and got started right away. In the beginning, it seemed easy. After learning several characters, they all seemed to sound the same and I got very confused and very frustrated. I shelfed it. I said, "I'll never be able to do this". That was in 7/95. Later in the year, I picked up the code tapes again and the exact same thing happened. That was the last time I tried to learn code that year. As the expiration date for the CSCE came near, I knew I would not have a General. It wasn't until 1997 that I tried again, this time with computer software. The same thing that happened with the tapes happened with the software. For the third time, I got frustrated and threw in the towel. I again tried unsuccessfully in 1998 with the software.

At the close of 1999, it came to light that the proposed license restructuring which was spoken about earlier in the year was going to become a reality on 4/15/2000. That meant only 5 wpm to get a General or Extra. In past years I had my focus on 13 wpm. Now, it would be only 5. I figured I could learn 5 wpm code. It took me about a month. The same thing happened as before with the confusion and frustration, but this time I didn't let it get the better of me. I kept pushing until I learned it. Finally, the desire was there. An attainable goal (5 wpm) was in sight. On the evening of Wed. 3/8/2000, I passed my code test and the General written exam. I walked out of the test session a Tech Plus. I was told to come to a special upgrade session on Sat. 4/15/2000 with my CSCE and my license. I walked out of the 4/15/2000 administrative session a General. The Extra would come 2 years later, purely because of procrastination. At the time, I was content with my General privileges.

The moral of my lengthily story is that in order to successfully do something, the desire must be there. Also an attainable goal must be set. Of course I couldn't go from 0 to 13 wpm. Anyone with the desire can learn 5 wpm. Speed comes later. Four years ago, I learned 5 wpm code purely for HF privileges. I had no intention of using it. This past summer, I decided to relearn code because I wanted to start using it on the air. At present, I can do 10-12 wpm. How far is that from 13? Could I have done it for my General under the old system? Sure, with enough work and enough practice I'm sure I could have, as long as I would have done it in steps, if I would have gone for the Tech Plus first, and then the General. My goal is to be able to hold my own in the CW portions of the bands at 20-25 wpm or higher. Can I do it? With enough work and enough practice, I'm sure I can.

Some day we will talk. I'm looking forward to it.

73,
Mark
AG4RQ

[N3TTN]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AG4RQ Wrote: When I took my tech test in June 1995, I aced the exam. The VE told me to try the General. I didn't want to try. I said I didn't study for the General. He said, "What do you have to lose? You're here already and it won't cost you anything extra, just your time". So I took the General written exam. I passed it. I left the test session with a CSCE for the General written exam. The VE told me that I had a year to pass a 13 wpm code test to obtain my General.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>






Some of your experiences sound remarkably similar to my own. When I took the tech test in 94' I missed only one question. I am planning to sit for the general written in early December, and my goal is to ace it. I'm very confident that I can achieve this because as I stated previously, I have always had a natural talent for the theory and technical aspects of amateur radio. I look at the one year "grace" period that the general written is good for, as an incentive to get going with the code. Like you, my initial experiences with learning code were frustrating to say the least, I guess I'm not one of those that take to it "like a duck to water" as you said. At any rate, there is a code tutor known as "code quick" that uses a novel technique for associating the charachters with "sound alikes", and I am considering giving this a try, as it sounds (no pun intended) like it might work for me. It has been a pleasure exchanging views and ideas with you Mark, and I wish you all the best in the future.


73, de N3TTN

[k1lwi]

you are right pete ve3nix #ham radio going down #hill fast no code and next no exam just be a good buddy bands full 10-4 of lids what happen to ham radio ? i been lic 43 yrs #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[k1lwi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ve3nix @ Oct. 30 2003,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"That's a big 10-4, good buddy." #

Really sad to see the hobby in decline. What's next: #a "no-exam" licence?

...Pete/VE3NIX #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
you are right pete no code and no exam just give away the lic go to you local store buy the lic sears or k mart hi

[K3DAV]

OHHHHH PLEASE. WAKE UP!! Where do you guys get this stuff?

Ham radio is doing just fine, and will continue to do just fine. The testing for a license will not go away. The CW subbands will not go away. CW will not go away. It's not going to be "10-4 good buddy" CB'ers. And the sky will stay up where it is now.

Did you guys just pass over G8RLD's post? G8RLD just told us how dropping the CW requirement in the UK has been a positive change. All of the other countries that have dropped the CW requirement have reported the same results.

Only in America can the big egos dream up so many ways to try and keep something good from happening to amateur radio. What a nice impression to give the world about American amateurs. The rest of the world must come to QRZ just for laughs and giggles.

If there are any problems in this country when the FCC finally drops the Requirement, it won't be because of the new operators on HF. It will be because of the poor losers that got their big egos popped, and taking it out on the poor newbies who just want to talk and have a little fun.

[ki4cqg]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ve3nix @ Oct. 30 2003,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"That's a big 10-4, good buddy." #

Really sad to see the hobby in decline. What's next: #a "no-exam" licence?

...Pete/VE3NIX #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Get over it. you still have to take a test to get a lic. All you little cry babbies out there think your special cause you have cw well your not!!!! Ham radio is a fun hobby lets keep it that way and grow up some!!!

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Nov. 21 2003,02:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OHHHHH PLEASE. #WAKE UP!! #Where do you guys get this stuff?

Ham radio is doing just fine, and will continue to do just fine. The testing for a license will not go away. #The CW subbands will not go away. CW will not go away. It's not going to be "10-4 good buddy" CB'ers. #And the sky will stay up where it is now.

Did you guys just pass over G8RLD's post? G8RLD just told us how dropping the CW requirement in the UK has been a positive change. #All of the other countries that have dropped the CW requirement have reported the same results. #

Only in America can the big egos dream up so many ways to try and keep something good from happening to amateur radio. #What a nice impression to give the world about American amateurs. #The rest of the world must come to QRZ just for laughs and giggles.

If there are any problems in this country when the FCC finally drops the Requirement, it won't be because of the new operators on HF. #It will be because of the poor losers that got their big egos popped, and taking it out on the poor newbies who just want to talk and have a little fun.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
sad,but true!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[w8vom]

Someone said:"There's nothing out there that lets you afford the energy to devote to studying morse code everyday unless you're retired, unemployed, or still in high school."

Hmmmm ....well I worked 11 hours a day 6 days a week,also had 2 children,yard work and also did charity work. I simply MADE time to learn 13 wpm and so can you. Please..no more excuses..we make time for what we want to do! W8VOM

[ka4emr]

Code is most likely to get through when other modes fail. Competency is a useful backup skill to have, even if one *plans* to use 99.9% voice or computer modes. Five wpm is easy! Just Do It. You may be very glad some day that you have that skill tucked away under your belt. Btw, I went through each class, Novice to Extra, and have used 99.9% voice since going Tech in 1979. But I exercise it enough to keep in shape http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Ya never know when you'll need it. Chris, KA4EMR/9

[kcorbx]

I believe that the code should be an alternative. They could require either a 5wpm test to get the general or the test taker could opt for a much tougher theory test. I personally am a technician (no-code). I believe that the ham service should be the same technically minded service which I believe is its real true roots, not code. The "dumbing down" of the American Ham is but a symptom of a much larger problem, the Dumbing Down of the American Citizen. And, oh, I want to do both.gunnut1967@yahoo.com

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w8vom @ Nov. 22 2003,00:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Someone said:"There's nothing out there that lets you afford the energy to devote to studying morse code everyday unless you're retired, unemployed, or still in high school."

Hmmmm ....well I worked 11 hours a day 6 days a week,also had 2 children,yard work and also did charity work. I simply MADE time to learn 13 wpm and so can you. Please..no more excuses..we make time for what we want to do! W8VOM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your key word in the last sentance is, "WANT". The words "WE WANT" should be changed to, "IS NECESSARY". Only then, would your statement make any sense.

Not everybody has the time for what we WANT. But we must make time for what is necessary. And knowledge of CW is NOT necessary to properly operate a radio, and be a good operator. This is a time proven fact, like it or not.

We can argue this point til the end of time. And I'm sure many will pointlessly do just that. But the facts remain facts. To argue against a fact is impossible. Doing so only makes the attempt look foolish and ego driven. Like this entire topic has become.

Why can't you guys just admit that, you had to learn it, and it ticks you off that within a year, nobody will have to learn. There can be no other reason for this debate to continue. I would respect your honesty. But to constantly make comparisons of CW knowledge to things that are not, and never will be absolutely necessary, represents dishonesty.

The CW requirement WILL be dropped. This is also a fact that can't be argued. The FCC will have no choice in order to be on an equal level with the rest of the world. Think about the thousands of operators around the world that are on HF right now, and did not have to learn CW. Are you going to be idiots and snub them too?

Isn't it time we end this stupidity, and start thinking about how to elmer the new guys, to make them do it right? Better yet. Let's start working on getting rid of BPL. On a list of threats to amateur radio, I would put CW at the very bottom, and BPL on top as #1 most dangerous to OUR hobby.

[w2wtf]

WHAT DOES NOT EVOLVE TO ADAPT TO ITS ENVIROMENT DIES!
Now lets think about it, Morse code is frankly,.. well for lack of a better term NOT NECCARYAND CODE TESTING NEEDS TO BE DROPPED There I said it, now I’m going to be slammed by all the old timers with the attitude that "I had to do it, therefore you do too" <really progressive mode of thinking there> and told to crawl back under my rock, well that’s not going to happen. If age is a state of mind, and you subscribe to that mode of thinking, frankly you’re a fossil. #Being in my late 20's and a ham <yes a technician class, now you say ooohhhh he doesn’t know squat well clam up and listen, you might learn something so read on> First off I'm not too lazy to learn something like morse code I do plenty of studying, I hold two degrees and will soon be working on a third.< no they are not in English and yes I realize many of you are more educated than I am and I know my grammar stinks> What I do know is that I'm much more in touch with the younger generation then most of the rest of you. #<who the fate of ham radio really rest with when the rest of you are gone> Where I live it mostly seems like ham radio is a old mans club <break out the fez hats and go-carts its time for a parade> and if it stays that way ham radio will die with them. In this age if the internet, im’s, mobile messengers, direct connect phones and many other gizmos to choose from that are off the shelf ready why would many of the younger generation choose ham radio when these are cheaper and require no testing. <I’m not saying remove testing, just the CW part> 99% of people I talk with about ham radio automatically assume I know code, and many that express an interest in ham radio fear the "code barrier" and that prevents them from trying. Sometimes I get responses like “with the internet and phones and everything else why do people still use ham radios?” Guess what? No try = less hams. <and thats all of our loss> #Then comes the argument from the other side that cw is the cornerstone of ham radio <maybe to you but it makes my dog howl> and code gets through when most else won’t, well guess what?…..that’s right, digital modes can get through just as well as code can. You may plug in your paddle; I plug in my palm pilot.
There are sooooooo <not enough space for oo’s for the amount of emphasis I’d like to place> many pluses to eliminating the CW testing, mainly MORE HAMS!!< no not the Christmas type either> Other benefits, more experimenters = new technologies, as well as a larger radio market that should bring lower prices and more products among other benefits.<simple economics 101> More of a voice with government and the FCC. <its not the louder we yell the more they listen, its the more of us that yell the more they listen>And of course, I feel is the most important, letting your children their children and their children enjoy ham radio.
Ham radio will not become like 11m CB, we police ourselves and report violators as neccary, Its just that most of the younger crowd is not interested in CW, many of us would rather use packet, psk, sstv, fstv ect. for non-voice modes. Hey, keep CW testing for operation in the CW bands, if you don’t want to operate CW why should you be tested on it, test those who want to use it. Many of us just don’t have a use for it with all the other modes, and don’t want to learn something we won’t use.<we’ll just forget it like what we learned in art history>
Lets face it in the "wireless" age, if our numbers decline the unused frequencies get re-allocated to those will PAY to use them (ex. 1.25m band.) #And with wireless congestion plenty of corporations would love to have spectrum in hf vhf and uhf.
Ham radio needs to evolve, and lets face it WHAT DOES NOT EVOLVE TO ADAPT TO ITS ENVIROMENT DIES <--fact of life there… undeniable I can’t state that enough……………. (why do you think farmers use different pesticides every year?)

Ok I’ve done enough rambling but I hope my scatter-brained 2am opinion makes it’s point and makes you think. Yes I know I’m sarcastic my parents remind of that every holiday, and my girlfriend reminds me daily, but sometimes that’s the best way to get through your cranium. Maybe you found this amusing or maybe offensive, I just hope I made my point and if this offends you do us all a favor and get over yourself…right here…right now. And if I did offent you good i got your attention. We all have opinions and a right to them. I may not like yours but I will respect it so respect mine. I welcome all replies from either side to this bulletin board and my e-mail # #zn706@mindspring.com # and maybe I’m even open to discussion if your willing to open your mind and see a different point of view………..73 # #Brad kg4foy

---minds are like parachutes, they only function when open #
not sure who said it-but it’s a valid point.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lu1dz]

The members of the Michigan Net strongly support the retention of the 5 word-per- minute telegraphy exam for High Frequency access. If it is necessary to endorse an existing Rule Making Petition, we recommend the FISTS petition, RM-10811. By doing so, the Commission will be making a strong case for a survivable, public service oriented Amateur Radio Service.

Michigan Net, QMN, Inc.
PO Box 457
Allegan, MI. 49010
269-673-8845
www.qsl.net/w8ihx/

http://gacw.no-ip.org http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K3DAV]

KG4FOY

You make a very good point. #It all boils down to, "USE IT, OR LOSE IT.

Unfortunately, everything you said will fly in one ear, and right out the other ear. #(Just like this post, because it dosen't agree with them.) #The pro coders know very well that you are correct. #But they are stuck in the same old rut. And it's killing them slowly knowing full well that they will not have it their way in the end. #So bashing no-coders is their last resort.

They have no logical argument for keeping the CW requirement, and they know it. #This has been made evident by the hundreds of post that constantly keep comparing the MODE of CW, to something that is actually necessary to know in life. #There is now 4 ongoing threads on this same worn out subject that have ended a long time ago, but for the pathetic enjoyment of trolls, it just refuses to die.

10 years from now, after the HF bands have gone on as it always has, and nothing bad has happened, QRZ will celebrate it's 1 billionth redundant post in this very thread by no-code haters. #Because they don't realize the war has been over for years, and nothing that they said would happen, actually happened.

Sit tight, and get the popcorn ready. I'm about to be proven right. #Here comes more of the no-code bashing reruns. OK guys, we're ready. #Let the redundancy continue.

[k4mfd]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif One question, if CW is so important to world peace as we know it today why is Amateur Radio the only radio service in the U.S. to require it's people to learn morse code??? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

CW is just another mode, let's treat it that way. [U][B]

[kc0ldt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4foy @ Dec. 11 2003,00:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WHAT DOES NOT EVOLVE TO ADAPT TO ITS ENVIROMENT DIES!
Now lets think about it, Morse code is frankly,.. well for lack of a better term NOT NECCARYAND CODE TESTING NEEDS TO BE DROPPED There I said it, now I’m going to be slammed by all the old timers with the attitude that "I had to do it, therefore you do too" <really progressive mode of thinking there> and told to crawl back under my rock, well that’s not going to happen. If age is a state of mind, and you subscribe to that mode of thinking, frankly you’re a fossil. #Being in my late 20's and a ham <yes a technician class, now you say ooohhhh he doesn’t know squat well clam up and listen, you might learn something so read on> First off I'm not too lazy to learn something like morse code I do plenty of studying, I hold two degrees and will soon be working on a third.< no they are not in English and yes I realize many of you are more educated than I am and I know my grammar stinks> What I do know is that I'm much more in touch with the younger generation then most of the rest of you. #<who the fate of ham radio really rest with when the rest of you are gone> Where I live it mostly seems like ham radio is a old mans club <break out the fez hats and go-carts its time for a parade> and if it stays that way ham radio will die with them. In this age if the internet, im’s, mobile messengers, direct connect phones and many other gizmos to choose from that are off the shelf ready why would many of the younger generation choose ham radio when these are cheaper and require no testing. <I’m not saying remove testing, just the CW part> 99% of people I talk with about ham radio automatically assume I know code, and many that express an interest in ham radio fear the "code barrier" and that prevents them from trying. Sometimes I get responses like “with the internet and phones and everything else why do people still use ham radios?” Guess what? No try = less hams. <and thats all of our loss> #Then comes the argument from the other side that cw is the cornerstone of ham radio <maybe to you but it makes my dog howl> and code gets through when most else won’t, well guess what?…..that’s right, digital modes can get through just as well as code can. You may plug in your paddle; I plug in my palm pilot.
There are sooooooo <not enough space for oo’s for the amount of emphasis I’d like to place> many pluses to eliminating the CW testing, mainly MORE HAMS!!< no not the Christmas type either> Other benefits, more experimenters = new technologies, as well as a larger radio market that should bring lower prices and more products among other benefits.<simple economics 101> More of a voice with government and the FCC. <its not the louder we yell the more they listen, its the more of us that yell the more they listen>And of course, I feel is the most important, letting your children their children and their children enjoy ham radio.
Ham radio will not become like 11m CB, we police ourselves and report violators as neccary, Its just that most of the younger crowd is not interested in CW, many of us would rather use packet, psk, sstv, fstv ect. for non-voice modes. Hey, keep CW testing for operation in the CW bands, if you don’t want to operate CW why should you be tested on it, test those who want to use it. Many of us just don’t have a use for it with all the other modes, and don’t want to learn something we won’t use.<we’ll just forget it like what we learned in art history>
Lets face it in the "wireless" age, if our numbers decline the unused frequencies get re-allocated to those will PAY to use them (ex. 1.25m band.) #And with wireless congestion plenty of corporations would love to have spectrum in hf vhf and uhf.
Ham radio needs to evolve, and lets face it WHAT DOES NOT EVOLVE TO ADAPT TO ITS ENVIROMENT DIES <--fact of life there… undeniable I can’t state that enough……………. (why do you think farmers use different pesticides every year?)

Ok I’ve done enough rambling but I hope my scatter-brained 2am opinion makes it’s point and makes you think. Yes I know I’m sarcastic my parents remind of that every holiday, and my girlfriend reminds me daily, but sometimes that’s the best way to get through your cranium. Maybe you found this amusing or maybe offensive, I just hope I made my point and if this offends you do us all a favor and get over yourself…right here…right now. And if I did offent you good i got your attention. We all have opinions and a right to them. I may not like yours but I will respect it so respect mine. I welcome all replies from either side to this bulletin board and my e-mail # #zn706@mindspring.com # and maybe I’m even open to discussion if your willing to open your mind and see a different point of view………..73 # #Brad kg4foy

---minds are like parachutes, they only function when open #
not sure who said it-but it’s a valid point.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Way to go!! That says it!!

Also, I am learning the Bible through and through as the Lord Jesus is more important and the Word will last forever and i can take that knowledge to Heaven, why waste time on morse code, when I am not going to use it for anything. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[M3FGO]

if they drop morse, what will they drop next ? the exam it's self ?


James
M3FGO

[K3DAV]

Earth to James. Earth to James. It's time to come back to the real world now.

After they drop the code, next they will drop the exam itself.
Next they will let people drive cars without a license.
Next they will let teachers teach without going to collage.
Next they will let 5th graders operate Nuclear power plants.
Next they will let auto mechanics deliver babies, and let doctors fix cars.
Next they will let jet planes land on major interstate highways during rush hour.
Next they will replace the air with helium so we can all talk funny.
The sky is going to fall down on us and kill us all..........

All of the above statements have one thing in common.
They are stupid, and will never happen.

Bye Bye Morse Code! I'd be happy to see it go as I have no desire or intent to learn it. I personally think it is an antiquated mode of communication, although I am fully aware of some of the perks which come with using Morse. However, I dont think it should be a requirement to operate on HF, although I think there should be some frequencies set aside for CW only, regardless of any Morse code requirement (for obvious reasons). I got my license AFTER the requirement was dropped to get the Technician class. I have NO intention of testing any higher in the ham world until such requirement is repealed. I know the theory...I could pass the test tomorrow. But I won't take it because I have NO desire to talk to someone with beeps. I find it impersonal. I got into ham radio because I wanted to TALK to people and HEAR their voices..not a bunch of beeps. This is my opinion and has been such for over 10 years. Now, I mean no disrepect to those whom have learned the code, use the code and even enjoy the code. That is what makes Ham radio an enjoyable hobby. There are so many things to do and experience, and each ham finds his niche and sticks with it. I, personally, love tinkering with repeaters and UHF frequencies. I like to build antennas and milk every last ounce of use out of the radios that I own. This is all my opinion. Maybe someday I'll get bored and if the code is an option, I'll do it...although I doubt it. Have fun with your code and by the way: -- --- -.- ... . -.-. --- -.. . .. ... -... --- .-. .. -. --. (My opinion)

73!