PUSH TO STOP UNLICENSED 10-METER OPERATORS

[AA7BQ]

From The ARRL Letter, October 10, 2003:

PUSH TO IDENTIFY UNLICENSED 10-METER OPERATORS CONTINUES

A concerted effort begun last spring to monitor for and possibly identify
unlicensed operators on 10 meters will continue through October. The FCC
already has asked the ARRL Amateur Auxiliary/Official Observers
<http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/org/oo.html> for assistance. Now, FCC
Special Counsel Riley Hollingsworth is inviting hard information on
suspected interlopers from all amateurs.

"If I don't receive reports, we'll have to conclude that unlicensed
operation on 10 meters no longer is a problem," Hollingsworth said this
week. Hollingsworth's initial request to beef up monitoring came in the
wake of complaints from the amateur community that rose to the level of a
major enforcement headache. He's expressed some disappointment, however,
that the number of solid reports received so far has been few, although
he's aware that a problem exists.

Hollingsworth asks amateurs to be specific in what they report. "Everybody
should police their own neighborhood," he suggested. "Turn on the radio,
and take a listen on the band. If you hear a loud signal that's obviously
an unlicensed interloper, see if you can track it down."

Hollingsworth said that in the case of a suspected unlicensed trucker on
the highway, amateurs should try to get the license plate number of the
tractor--not the trailer--or at least the company name and, if possible,
the DOT number.

The FCC does not require direction-finding data but would appreciate,
where possible, names and addresses of alleged or suspected operators.
Audio recordings of apparently illegal transmissions also can prove
helpful.

Individual amateurs with solid information on alleged unlicensed operation
on 10 or even 12 meters should report it to the FCC via e-mail
<fccham@fcc.gov>. Official Observers should file their reports through
normal ARRL channels.

ARRL Field and Regulatory Correspondent Chuck Skolaut, K0BOG, says the FCC
wants to pin down specific areas where unlicensed operation is prevalent
in the US. He and Hollingsworth concede, however, that not all illegal
10-meter operation is of domestic origin.

The FCC's initial request last May request was made in accordance with the
Communications Act and a longstanding agreement between ARRL and the FCC
regarding the use of Amateur Radio volunteers to assist in enforcement.

================================================== =========
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Radio Relay League--The National Association For Amateur Radio--225 Main
St, Newington, CT 06111; tel 860-594-0200; fax 860-594-0259;
<http://www.arrl.org>. Jim Haynie, W5JBP, President.

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[k7unz]

It appears to me that the FCC has just washed it's hands concerning this problem. At first you would get the impression that they are encouraging the amateur community to assist, but in actuality they are asking us do something which we are neither equipped to do, nor authorized to do. The amateur community does not have the responsible to locate unauthorized operations, and has no authority to "police" anyone. I, for one, can not see myself zooming down the highway, trying to get plate numbers on vehicles I suspect of unauthorized activity. Yeah, right, try to explain that one to the Trooper when you're pulled over!

Policing ourselves is one thing, policing the world is another. The interference I hear on the bands is not truckers, but rather international use of the amateur bands by fishing boats, and a whole slew of South Americal personal radio users. The problem, as I see it, is not confined to operations within the continental United States. Rather, it's one of international proportions, supported by the fact that even DX stations complain of QRM from the SSB/AM operations taking place outside the United States.

The FCC just does not have the backbone to do the job as it should be done, which is at the government to government level. This problem effects more than amateur operations. Just tune off the ham bands and listen for a while. I hear them almost everywhere these days!


This is an international problem, and way outside anything in which we individual amateurs should be involved.

This is the same response we have heard from the FCC since the late 50's (that I know of, and most likely longer....). You can report 'em, but your reports will never have enough "solid" information for the FCC to get involved.

Ok, that's off my chest....thank you for listening!

73, Jim/k7unz

[n4dsp]

When an amateur radio store sells illegal amplifiers they get fined. Why not fine the radio manufacturers like Kenwood for putting 2 and 10 meters rigs for sale at truck stops. Last I heard they were selling hf rigs at these truck stops. Boycott Kenwood Products.

[N8HE]

Another FCC joke, you prove and we'll inforce. First we have no authority. Second we can't even police ourselves. More over, Most Trucks have the license plates on the front of the tractor, anyone in their right mind isn't going to run down the road at 70 miles an hour, looking over their shoulder trying to write down a license plate number of a rig that weighs 80,000 pounds. Next you have to prove he has a illegal rig and transmitting on it. How are you gonna get that proof?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Get real folks enforcement is just not enforcable. If it was....CB and Freebanders would have been caught years ago.

Untill the manufacture of this junk is stopped the problem will continue...try telling a guy that just paid 500 bucks for a radio that he can't use it, see what he says.

[N9TTX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go after the manufacturers, distributers, etc. No warnings, just fine them. Hit them in the wallet, that will get their attention.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Although this may be a good start, what manufacturers, for example, should be targeted? The only ones that should be targeted for selling in a US market are those so called "export" rigs. I find it funny that they sell them via various online and other companies as "10-meter" rigs. 99% of these are AM/FM or AM/FM/SSB rigs with an occasional CW option now and again. Even after they are "converted" to run 6+ bands of 40 channels, they will not dial up above 28.305 Mhz... If they were CW only this would not be a problem, but voice modes would be useless. FM is only allowed above 29 Mhz and though AM is allowed across the voice band, gentlemans agreements say also above 29 Mhz. So how can these be 10 meter trancievers as they advertise them? These are the main culprits out there.
Another manufacturer which is a legit Amateur radio manufacturer which may need to be looked at (I have not seen the new DX versions, though I have heard it is a bit more involved to convert now) is Ranger or RCI. Personally I am an avid fan of these rigs. I have them ONLY for 10 meter...or planning on using them as a permanent all-mode IF drivers for UHF/SHF transverters. the older styles converted to CB easily if that is what one wanted, the new 2950/2970's with the 12 meter band I guess are not easily converted, which is good, although I have heard that by doing a certain conversion, one is able to get all of 15 meter in them also...but this is TX from 21Mhz-29.700Mhz. If the ham wants a nice tribander this is an option one might look into, though those flamers will jump all over this. It is up to the LICENSED ham to operate in only the spectrum he is licensed for...sam with the old tube rigs...there was not a TX cutout in these old rigs...hams learned to stay in the band they were running even though the rig WOULD TX say above 14.350 Mhz for example. This is called "common sense."
So in these cases, targeting "certain" manufacturers for either desisting of sale or modification of design to prohibit out of amateur band TX operation would be good. Targeting the distributers would be an easier way as though strict enforcement of watching/pulling catalog items (if a company) and rejection of shipment of such export rigs by the shipee/shipper would help curtail the new influx of rigs.

As far as the rest of the original letter goes, anyone who is on 10 meters as I am, knows that there is a lot of unlicensed/illegal operation going on...mostly in the lower portion of the band. I do hear Truckers chatting away, or intermodding from a cb up to 10 meter. There is a lot of interference from certain rigs "bleeding" over to the 10 meter op or even 20 and 2 meter on occasion. I would not say or neither is Riley saying that one should speed up to catch the trucker or "4-wheeler" operator, but if one does happen to pass or see which vehicle it is, jot down the information wanted. If in the case of illegal base or in-town work, use ones DF techniques and call it a foxhunt to find the perpetrator. Be nice about it as believe it or not folks, some people really do not know that their "CB" is not legal...ignorance is rampant. I did not know any better until years after I got into the CB service...and there are others that also do not know. a gentle explanation of what is happening and possible fines might sway them better than a yelling match..and it may just gain us more ham operators in the process. All the post is asking is to monitor, and if one can find out the perpetrator, document it. This may be hard due to the mentioned non-U.S. operators, but we have to start somewhere.

Conclusion: The FCC should seriously consider looking into manufacturers and distributors, and curtail or advise as neccessary, and those active on 10 meter should "take notes" while monitoring or contacting. Everyone should work together, and maybe the problem may diminish.

Probably more than my 2 cents worth, but in any case...Riley, let me know where to send the information when I can gather it. 73.

Dave....N9TTX

[WG4STV]

So go after the truck stops that sell them. I remember back in 1986 there was a major FCC crackdown on illegal radios and linears and this CB shop in Wichita KS was hit with a $2000.00 fine. It was rather funny. The FCC inspector walked in and said "I'm looking for a CB radio with all the bells and whistles." The salesman pulled out a President Jackson export from under the counter and said "What do you think about this?" The FCC inspector show him his credentials and said "What do you think about this?" I walked into the same shop about six months ago looking for a CB radio and all they had were illegal stuff. They showed me a radio with 75 watts of AM power and bookoo channels and I told them my ham radio license was too important to me to buy one of those and walked out. They don't even sell legal radios at all but they have a whole display case of illegal rigs. Go after them, FCC.

[k5ahh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9TTX @ Oct. 11 2003,17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"># #Conclusion: #The FCC should seriously consider looking into manufacturers and distributors, and curtail or advise as neccessary, and those active on 10 meter should "take notes" while monitoring or contacting. #Everyone should work together, and maybe the problem may diminish.

# #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # #Great post. #I really wish I knew about laws so I could sound "cool" when I post, but when I hear voice operations on the C.W. section of 10 meters, it's rather annoying. #Now, I am hearing all sorts of beeps and stuff in the 12 meter band. #I never used to hear that...oh well. #I have always wondered why, when so many places are online selling these illegal rigs and amplifiers in the open, these guys cannot be stopped?? #As stated earlier, I know nothing about the law, but it just seems that if these guys are truly selling illegal equipment, why would the major sellers of this equipment continue to be in business all these years? #Yes, I know there are hundreds of these online stores, and truck stops that sell illegal equipment, and I cannot expect them to all be shut down, but there are some (many) that have been online for several years, and have been around much longer before they had internet presence. #Jeez, I saw a website just last night that makes an amplifier that claimed an output of 84,000 watts! #Oh well.

[AE6IP]

Hmm... "concerted effort" ... "conclude that unlicensed
operation on 10 meters no longer is a problem" ...

Sounds to me like Riley's telling the whiners to put up or shut up.

[w4gns]

You known the majorty of the illegal radios they sell in the truckstops are not modified to xmit on 11 meters,and a trucker is not willing to buy it unless he can have it modified,Alot of the guys modifing the radios,(cb dr's) sport ham radio call signs on the car tags,So we can look in our own ranks at (part)of the 10 meter problem,i see these CB Drs all the time in there shops,since i drive a truck,and it is not ,uncommon de W4GNS

[n8zux]

I happen to work in a job where I have Truckers are parking in the lot, and my 12 yrs. in the HD truck biz, always your License Plate is mounted on the front, the Truck name is generally on the door or if a sleeper unit #usually near the door. # #I did not have a problem securing a License Plate Number while standing still, just know where the driver is at usually inside at the Bathroom, I have the License No., Truck No., Company Name, Make and Model of the Rig, color. description of the driver. #

This was not a 10 Meter Viloation I reported, a use of a Radio for Solicitation, I had to write a formal complaint to the FCC Special Enforcement in Washington, DC and signed my John Henery on the letter, as well my FCC License Call-Sign.

I also learned from the State Police Motor Carrier Enforcement the little things, and guess what the biggest gripe of a trucker is.

Being stopped at a DOT inspection, having the log book gone over, the truck being inspected, have their license ran for Wants & Warrants, then be put out of service for a major repair violation, believe me they gripe about it, and especially the expensive wrecker comes in to haul it to the garage ( $500.00 or more later )

10 Meter illeagle ops, well I can say It's more work cut out, knowing which repair shops selling illeagle gear is another. #the seller is wanting to make a buck, and really requires tecqunique, and being a expert know it all of the rules and regs will get you thrown out of a store quicker than you think. #I learned to ask and look, its a common shopper attitude, like yeah not bad but not quite what I want anyway.

I walk into a CB shop, look around, ask a few questions hi how ya doing, if they know you as ok & you aint the FCC or their enemy well thats how you get info. it takes time like going in a bank and opening up a checking account.

I have mentioned to a couple drivers you need a valid FCC license on occasion, you just have to come at the person with the right thinking, #I can scan a parked rig and see the heat sink fins under the CB if they are running Power Amp, or rear side if its a high power rig, also another thing a big antenna with the loading coil, and the other is not a look alike, usually co-phased will be same antennas, they may have one set up for out of band ops, and wants a gigantic mirror ornament.

word of caution don't go doing it as suspicious especially in a truck lot full of rigs, I don't think we want to read you as a silent key or that you got arrested as suspicious for theft, or wound up in Emergency at some hospital cause some onery trucker used you for a punching bag, I knew a guy who sold truck parts had his camera smashed for taking a picture of a trucker's rig.

not all people are nice , you should know that by now.

I guess I said alot but kept you out of trouble

[W5HTW]

First of all, and I hope it was clear in the ARRL Letter, we are not meant to police anything but ham bands. One of the normal reactions we get is some hams buzz down to 27 MHZ and start "writing up" bad ops on CB. T'ain't our turf.

We should be on the alert to identify, repeat, identify, illegal interlopers into our bands, and that's what this is all about. But there has to be substantial hard evidence before the FCC can do anything, so taping one conversation between Mama Bear and Billy The Kid isn't going to hack it.

Sadly, the battle may well be lost. The FCC "invented" CB radio, and has pretty much regretted that huge mistake for some 40 years. They lost control of it within the first two years of its existence.

Now I think they have long since washed their hands of the CB rules breakers. They do not have the funding or power to police the ham bands for us, and unless we can present them with irrefutable evidence, they are not going to be able to do anything about the interlopers.

What may would be of interest would be a nationwise network of hams with highly directional antennas (such as multielement quads) and rapid response (a few minutes at best) when alerted by phone, internet or even ham radio (lord forbid!) to try to get triangulation on a signal. And even then, what would it do? Not much. Unless someone happened to be located really close to the point of origin and could ride down the road with fox hunting equipment, and document the source, we are pretty much out of luck.

It sounds defeatist to just roll over and forget it. But the time for action was years ago and the action didn't take place. Now we'll pay the price. I would guess we'll be paying that price far into the future, as, realistically, there is no way to address this.

You can penalize the truck stops and CB radio shops. But as soon as you fine one, two more will spring up to sell the radios. The manufacturers won't stop making them, as it is big bucks.

And as noted, many of the interlopers are off shore. The fCC has zero authority, and even if we catch the fishing boat by name, and the radio operator by name, it means nothing at all. We can do nothing at all about ops south of the border, on in South America.

The picture is bleak. The FCC, a la Hollingsworth, is paying lip service to the problem, but at best they can hope to catch one out of perhaps several hundred, in any given month. If that often.

The huge FCC HFDF facility must be turned off most of the time, as I can not imagine what it would be DFing. And it would really get the goat of congress to dedicate that multimillion dollar facility to a small batch of hobbyists, anyway.

I do listen, a lot more than I am transmitting. And when I hear a signal inside the ham bands that does not appear to belong, I try to get some info. But it's hard to do and the freebanders know it. If I can make them move outside of the ham band, I have accomplished something and they are off my radar screen. But I know more will take the place of the one that moved.

What it boils down to is CB should have remained on 465 MHZ. But hindsight is excellent, even with the FCC!

73
Ed

[W9JCM]

It does appear that the FCC doesnt want to do its job. Its there job to monitor and bust illegal operations. Its not my job to hang around on 10 meters with my paper, pencil and tape recorder to do Rileys job. This is a hobby. Maybe we need to find a new person or persons for enforcement. As far as OOs go they are a laugh I can make up a organization and deem a some paying members our police, make up cards telling so and so , you did'nt ID in 12 minutes or you are 3.1K wide. What a waste.

[k0ip]

Cb'ers are like cockroaches, you could kill 10 and 100 more will appear. Ten meters is like a paradise lost, every 10 khz is another pile of garbage. And of course, they are all potential Hams..! Especially when some of the old stumbling blocks are removed from the license requirements. 10-4 gud buddy!

[kc2ftn]

Perhaps the Feds should go after the two BIGGEST sellers of 'Export' gear:
www.copper.com and www.hyelectronics.com

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc2ftn @ Oct. 10 2003,21<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Perhaps the Feds should go after the two BIGGEST sellers of 'Export' gear:
# www.copper.com #and #www.hyelectronics.com[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This makes as much sense as to go after the car dealer that sold a SUV that mowed down three people at a street fest!

OWNING THE RADIO IN QUESTION IS NOT ILLEGAL, the USE is illegal!

I am fairly active on 10m, and I have not heard an ENGLISH SPEAKING bootlegger. The FCC cannot do anything about interferance outside the USA and Possessions... so going after truck stops, going after HYElectronics, or Copper is not going to make a hill of beans to ANYONE. It is NOT OUR problem below 28000000 Hertz.

If the radios in question do not meet FCC Certification, then the FCC has the power to remove them from sale, but what I have seen at Flying J and the TWO "flea markets" at I-75 and OH SR63 (Trader's World and Turtle Creek) all have a FCC plaque on them, stating certification.

What is our problem is the lack of legal activity between 28.000MHz and 28.300MHz. I would propose MOVING the beacon sub-band to the common abuse frequencies...
28.005
28.015
28.025
28.035
28.045
28.055
28.065
28.075
28.085
28.095

97.203(d) would need to be changed first for AUTOMATIC beacons...

OR

More legal amateur operation so the bootleggers do not think they are in virgin territory.

IMHO



K8YS

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Oct. 11 2003,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OWNING THE RADIO IN QUESTION IS NOT ILLEGAL, the USE is illegal!

I am fairly active on 10m, and I have not heard an ENGLISH SPEAKING bootlegger. The FCC cannot do anything about interference outside the USA and Possessions... so going after truck stops, going after HYElectronics, or Copper is not going to make a hill of beans to ANYONE. It is NOT OUR problem below 28000000 Hertz.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
---I pretty much agree with you there...and about 90% of the "bootleg" transmissions I have heard were Spanish speaking folks, and not truck drivers or whatever (I suppose some of them could have been Spanish speaking truck drivers, I don't know). #The rest were English speakers. #It just makes me mad when I try to listen to 10 and/or 12 meter C.W., and hear all sorts of beeps and echos while trying to learn C.W. #I just move to other bands to rectify THAT problem, though. #On the other hand, the two companies listed sell many, many, illegal radios AND amplifiers. #With that said, I have heard many people from 27.406-27.800 or so, say that they purchased their rig from those two companies (and many other companies, too). #Yes, even if the F.C.C. shut down three or four of the "big guys" that sell illegal "export radios" and CB type amplifiers, there would be #many more similar businesses to take its place...BUT, why perpetuate the problem by allowing them to remain in business? #I guarantee if I had an illegal "CB'er" in my vicinity, and he/she was interfering on my television set, I would want them to cease transmitting, and yes, I have problems with them in this apartment complex. #I have not figured out where they are coming from, though.

Well, Good luck on any kind of successful enforcement. #This is a problem that has been around for the last 40-years that I know of. #The FCC will catch a few but it is sort of like killing flies... for every one you swat, there only MILLIONS left.
I don't think the manufacturers are fully at fault, it is the ilegal users. #Hard examples need to be made of those that are caught rather than just a slap on the hand.

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5GNB @ Oct. 11 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The FCC will catch a few but it is sort of like killing flies...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
With a ball-peen hammer!

Cortland

[KV6F]

[CODE]Do you know when there are no CBs on the 10 M band??? when there is a contest,because the band is full of stations on CW and CBs hate the QRM made by code--
The solution would be that amateurs should dedicate some of the time they can spare and come up more often on the 10 M band or sooner or later we will lose the band-

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Oct. 11 2003,12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Go after the manufacturers, distributers, #etc. No warnings, just fine them. Hit them in the wallet, that will get their attention. #kd4amg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
They can start by shutting down Ranger USA.

Why? Sure they make "type" certified 10 meter radios that can be easily modified to operate on any band 10-12 meters (and then some), but they also make the popular Galaxy cb radios.

[KG6JTB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He and Hollingsworth concede, however, that not all illegal 10-meter operation is of domestic origin.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This is the other problem that appears to be growing exponetially.

Dave
KG6JTB

[K0ZZE]

well first off, they need to get people's names and addresses when they buy these so called 10 meter rigs. When i bought my first radio at Associated, they asked me for my call and my name and address. That's a good thing i thought to myself as i was checking out. Now, after a year of taking names and addresses, they need to go out and follow up on these people to see if they are operating illegally, and catch them in the act and fine them with a heavy fine, take away their equipment and if they can't pay in a certain amount of time, send them to prison.

nuff said KC0QME

[/B]I asked YAESU how to put my 920 on the new 60 meter band and they told me they wouldn't tell me how but they told me there were many websites that would. I already knew that and the mod is so simple even an idiot bander/trucker could do it! These sites tell you how to modify every single rig out there to "open it up for full tx frequencies". A local ham outlet around here does it..so I hear the local idiot band bootleggers say....
Riley and ARRL (WHO RUNS THEIR ADS) have been checking into it for a year or so.....har har..big talk little do to them both! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WG4STV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Oct. 11 2003,18<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We should be on the alert to identify, repeat, identify, illegal interlopers into our bands, and that's what this is all about. #But there has to be substantial hard evidence before the FCC can do anything, so taping one conversation between Mama Bear and Billy The Kid isn't going to hack it. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well here's an idea then: #Have some FCC inspectors camp out at weigh stations. #The truckers have to stop there to drive over the scales. #If the inspector sees an antenna on a rig, kindly inform the driver that he would like to inspect his station. #They have a right to do this. #If an illegal rig is found, confiscate the equipment and fine the driver and the company if it's a company truck. #Of course the word will travel quickly that an FCC inpection is taking place at this paticular stop, so when that happens, move to a different location. #It will only take a few of these for word to travel quickly and the drivers will probably not want to own these illegal rigs. #

[N7AAO]

Gentlemen, gentlemen (and any ladies that may be reading this)...

Let's inject a little realism here, okay?

Point 1: Riley is not asking us to be the policement for the 10M band. What he IS asking us to do is something that any citizen can do... when you see/hear a crime, report it! That's really all he wants, reports of suspected 10M activity, along with a little bit of evidence (not enough to take to a court of law) so that he and his officers can continue the investigation. This is really no different from getting the license number of a car you see driving away from a hit-and-run accident, and turning that in to the police.

Point 2: Riley does not have nearly enough people to put even one FCC officer in every jurisdiction where there is an active ham. So, he is asking for our help so that he can determine where to put those agents he does have to catch these people. Again, there is a strong similarity with your local police... they cannot be on every street in your town, so sometimes you have to tell them where a problem is occurring so that they can assign officers there.

To summarize, we are not being asked to be the 10M cops, we are being encouraged to do what we should be doing anyway... reporting illegal activity and providing enough evidence that the real FCC officers can follow up.

So, all you moaners about illegal 10M activity... quit your whining and try to help the FCC take care of the problem!

--David, N7AAO

[w6th]

Hello

Topic: PUSH TO STOP UNLICENSED 10-METER OPERATORS.

Very funny topic. Close the door after the horse has run astray.

There is no stopping this operation, so write it off and lets get back to code or no code.

A question: #Is Topic: PUSH TO STOP UNLICENSED 10-METER OPERATORS Our job to stop this action? No it isn't as it is up to those getting paid to do so.

There is no reason for the excuse the FCC to be unfunded as I am sure some of the rice box manufacturers could add a few dollars and donate to the FCC or raise the price a few dollars in support of the FCC or a few congressmen donate a few dollars of their $275,000 plus a year earnings.

An example: For instance, former Senator Bradley, and his wife, may be expected to draw
$7,900,000, with Mrs. Bradley drawing $275,000 during the last year of her
life. This is calculated on the average life span for each. This would be
well and good, except that they paid nothing in on any kind of retirement,
and neither does any other Senator or Congressman.

This fine retirement comes right out of the General Fund: our tax money.
While we who pay for it all, draw an average of $1000/month from Social
Security.

The problem is with the laws, not those who benefit from them.


Now how about the FCC for funds.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # Good Luck
# # # # # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ...-.-

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

[KC7HDE]

I read and hear alot about how this is the Amatuer Radio service.
Now is this the Amatuer Radio Emergency Service only or can we be a service to the FCC and try harder to Police our FREQ'S and get these out of banders.


73's
Norm. T.

[N9TTX]

N7AOO, that is what I said earlier, and I agree. As for the pessimistic whiners out there, if you are on 10-meters, help out. If you are not, then why whine...other than to hear yourself. Things do not get done unless someone takes action, and as I and N7AOO and I had said, they are asking for info IF one can get it...they (FCC) are not asking us to do their job for them. While tuning around the band to find a contact, jot down the info on the illegal activity as well as your legit contacts...it takes the same amount of effort.

as for "easy conversions"...have you ever seen how easy it is to get a "big three" brand hf xmitter modified? Many that I have come across have been converted for 11 meter transmit. There are also a good many 2 meter/70 cm rigs that are also out there converted for xmit throughout their rx range.

I do not buy rigs that are known to be converted, if I do get one that I find to have extra capabilities, I try my best to undo that conversion. If it is unreversable, I do use common sense and do not transmit there. For example: flip the jumpers back to factory 10 meter settings on the RCI's (why they are there in the first place, I don't know anyway), take that 11 meter crystal out of the FT-101 socket (put in a 12 meter xtal insted to get an extra ham band if you wish), and redo jumpers, resolder connections on the rest of the rigs. It is not illegal to sell rigs that have out of band features, but it is illegal for the OPERATOR to transmit where he/she is not allowed, and it is illegal to sell non-type accepted products for the CB service. Keep in mind that because of circuit design and such, because 10 meters is within the HF spectrum, it is easy to get at. The same with the 2 meter/70 cm rigs in the VHF spectrum. Same circuit design for ham as it is for police/fire, but different jumpers/settings are made to allow for the different services. Just a different case is slapped around the rig. I know of one ham who is PROUD of his business/police/fire rig that has been opened up to accept ham freuencies.

Stop illegal 10 meter use, yes I agree, and will try and help out where I can while out running the band. educate/elmer those that like the radio and maybe "convert them" to being licensed hams. Also look to oneself before flaming and whining...how many "converted" rigs do we as hams have, and are we doing anything about our own personal equipment? Just think about it, and help out our license provider instead of complaining on every score...eveyone makes mistakes and I agree the FCC made a big one with deregulation of CB, but that is the past, and maybe just maybe they may clean it up someday...but it has to start somewhere, and "sit and spout-holier than thou" chronic complainers don't help.

Dave...N9TTX

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 12 2003,07:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well first off, they need to get people's names and addresses when they buy these so called 10 meter rigs. When i #bought my first radio at Associated, they asked me for my call and my name and address. That's a good thing i thought to myself as i was checking out. Now, after a year of taking names and addresses, they need to go out and follow up on these people to see if they are operating illegally, and catch them in the act and fine them with a heavy fine, take away their equipment and if they can't pay in a certain amount of time, send them to prison. # #

# # # # # # # # # # nuff said # KC0QME[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hate to burst the bubble, but (probably) the only reason they wanted your name and address was for advertising reasons. (And possible warrantee verification.) I doubt "Associated" had a higher motive than that.
And who is "they" that should check for illegal operation? If you refer to the FCC, add up the number of radio stores, etc. that sell radios times the number of radios sold...
Clearly not in the FCC budget, and not realistic, however desirable.

[n9wwr]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3drk @ Oct. 10 2003,16http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When an amateur radio store sells illegal amplifiers they get fined. Why not fine the radio manufacturers like Kenwood for putting 2 and 10 meters rigs for sale at truck stops. Last I heard they were selling hf rigs at these truck stops. Boycott Kenwood Products.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've never seen a 2 meter 10 meter Kenwood rig at a truck stop in SE Wisconsin or Northern Ill. I know this because I've been driving truck for the last 12 years in this area. However there were 10 meter rigs which would be converted on sight by the cb shop to cover 26.000 to 29.999. As for the amps, if the amp is considered a 10 meter amp it's not illegal to sell. If it is being sold as a 11 meter then it is illegal.
Do you really think some of these stores care if you have a license or not. If they cared AES would have not sold me my radio equipment before I had my ticket. They are out for the profit.

John


P.S Truck stops in this area are:Pilot, Petro, and TA.

[n9wwr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9TTX @ Oct. 10 2003,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#I find it funny that they sell them via various online and other companies as "10-meter" rigs. #99% of these are AM/FM or AM/FM/SSB rigs with an occasional CW option now and again. Even after they are "converted" to run 6+ bands of 40 channels, they will not dial up above 28.305 Mhz... # # # #Another manufacturer which is a legit Amateur radio manufacturer which may need to be looked at (I have not seen the new DX versions, though I have heard it is a bit more involved to convert now) is Ranger or RCI. #Personally I am an avid fan of these rigs. #I have them ONLY for 10 meter...or planning on using them as a permanent all-mode IF drivers for UHF/SHF transverters. #the older styles converted to CB easily if that is what one wanted, # # # # # # # # # # # Dave....N9TTX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The HR2510 and HR 2600 can cover 26.000 to 29.999 once converted. The older RCI 2950 and 2970 will cover 26.000 to 32.000 once converted. I know this because I owned both the 2510 and 2950 before I got my license.
Most company trucks a set to run 68 mph now. And we all know that most of the "4 wheelers" are never doing the posted speed limit. If your in a 65 mph zone I don't think you will have a problem catching a truck set to 68 mph. All you need is the company name and the truck number which is either on the side of the hood or on the front. The ICC number is to long to copy safely while your driving down the road. Make sure that you get the present location of the truck when you copy the info down. The company can either track the progress of the truck via satellite (if the company has a "tattle tail" on board the truck) or it can compare the paper work (log book) of the driver. This information is very important because the driver can always say he was never in the area or you got the wrong truck number. If possilbe get the trailer number.
You ask how I know all of this. I'm a trucker.

73s
John...N9WWR

[K0ZZE]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Oct. 12 2003,14http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif1)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 12 2003,07:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well first off, they need to get people's names and addresses when they buy these so called 10 meter rigs. When i #bought my first radio at Associated, they asked me for my call and my name and address. That's a good thing i thought to myself as i was checking out. Now, after a year of taking names and addresses, they need to go out and follow up on these people to see if they are operating illegally, and catch them in the act and fine them with a heavy fine, take away their equipment and if they can't pay in a certain amount of time, send them to prison. # #

# # # # # # # # # # nuff said # KC0QME[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hate to burst the bubble, but (probably) the only reason they wanted your name and address was for advertising reasons. #(And possible warrantee verification.) # I doubt "Associated" # had a higher motive than that.
# #And who is "they" that should check for illegal operation? #If you refer to the FCC, add up the number of radio stores, etc. that sell radios times the number of radios sold...
# #Clearly not in the FCC budget, and not realistic, however desirable.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
in my opinion, it's highly realistic. they "the government" needs to stop wasting our tax dollars to line thier fat little pockets and do something about the problems at hand insted of us, asking us to do everything for them for free, when we the americans work damn hard for our mony to be taxed to death so they can waste our money and tell us what to do!!! dont think so not this man. i dont live over in germany i live in the USA. they need to be doing what thier paid to do.


# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # KC0QME http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[K5BTV]

Riley Hollingworth's statement that there must not be a problem of illegal ops on ten meters is ludicrus. The ARRL did not ask the ham population to participate just the OOs. No wonder the FCC did not get any replies.

When skip is in, about 15 USA truckers are around 28.085 +/- 2 KHz plus 2KHz plus dozens scattered up and down the band. You can bet they are there when no skip is in too! This is a Texas location, so if all skip zones in the USA were listening there are hundreds of illegal ops going on and it is getting worse.

The problem is truckers are mobile and there are few hams on the road to identify the illegals.

I agree the smart approach is to have FCC personnel examine trucks at weigh stations. With rig confistication and big fines to trucking corporations they will score big.
73, Jim

Take a look in the new winter AES catalog...they are selling handheld AIRCRAFT RADIOS THAT TX RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX ON THE AERO FREQS!! As a commercial heavy jet jockey I wonder how long before that band will be f****d too!!! Even have the new modes in them.

28.305 lsb is another hot bootlegger freq btw http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[k5ahh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5BTV @ Oct. 12 2003,15:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree the smart approach is to have FCC personnel examine trucks at weigh stations. With rig confistication and big fines to trucking corporations they will score big.
73, Jim[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Hi, Jim. #I noticed you are in Texas. #Hello, neighbor. #Anyway, in the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, they have a division called "Weights and Measures" (or some similar name). #I really do not expect them to do much regarding illegal radios, but I wonder if any of them take a quick look at their radios? #I'm just curious here, so if anybody is going to say something like "Oh, they have more important things to do", don't worry, I agree! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #Who knows, maybe some of them do confiscate illegal radios (assuming the OHP knows what to look for regarding illegal radios) and give them tickets? #Just wondering.

[k5ahh]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JUSTAHAM @ Oct. 12 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Take a look in the new winter AES catalog...they are selling handheld AIRCRAFT RADIOS THAT TX RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX ON THE AERO FREQS!! #As a commercial heavy jet jockey I wonder how long before that band will be f****d too!!! #Even have the new modes in them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif # Yeah, I have noticed those radios too! #That would definitely be some bad news if bootleggers of these radios started messing with United, TWA, UPS, or whomever. #I could just imaging the trouble that could be caused http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif # I suppose, on the other hand, I have noticed similar radios being sold for years, and have not heard of any incident regarding illegal aircraft transmissions. #Sure, I won't say that is has never happened, because it probably has...but right now, it is not much of a problem. #One might say that it is extremely simple to modify a VHF ham radio to xmit on a police band, but I don't think THAT is even a problem, (yet). #Luckily, the vast majority of people that own these radios are indeed hams. #Hams generally, are not bootleggers or troublemakers, so maybe the "problem" is kept to a minimum. #Don't get me wrong, though...there will probably be some idiot out there that will take one of these radios and start causing trouble http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif # Let's just hope there will not be problems.

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5BTV @ Oct. 12 2003,13:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Riley Hollingworth's statement that there must not be a problem of illegal ops on ten meters is ludicrus.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Riley is not an idiot. He knows -- as we all should have caught onto - that in the absence of any other evidence, the FCC (like every law enforcement agency, BTW) is legally required to conclude that no complaints = no crimes.

Cops know better. So does Riley. So do the Commissioners. So does the ARRL. But if we don't complain, the Commission can't act.


Cortland

[W5HTW]

Couple of points. Well, more than a couple!

First, Riley is right. He is not personally (nor is his staff) listening 24/7 to the ham bands. We become the 'ears' for the FCC, so if we don't hear anything, or don't report anything, that is what he has to go on.

Truckers in 9 land may be set for 68 mph. Here in the west, where speed limits are legally 75 mph, most trucks can run that or considerably more. The average truck is running 72 or so, and probably 4 out of 10 are running the legal limit. Once in a while one is over the limit, but in fairness to the truckers, the idea that the big trucks are all speeding is a perception by ill-informed car drivers.

It IS illegal to sell an amplifier in the US that operates on 10 meters. So amplifiers showing up in truck stops that claim to be ten meter amplifiers ARE illegal. All of the true ham multi-band amplifiers that are sold in this country are limited so they don't even cover 24 mhz, let alone 28 mhz. Proof of ham license is required for the dealer to modify the amplifier - or to sell the modifying kit - to put the amp on 12 and 10 meters.

There are still a number of illegal CB amplifiers being sold on eBay, too. I found several, including Galaxy, Afterburner and others.

While a lot of the stuff heard on 10 meters is Spanish, or in some cases Vietnamese or Japanese (fishing vessels, for example) a lot of it IS English, and is inside the US.

A growing problem is the Freebanders moving into other HF ham bands, from 40 meters on through 30, 20 and 12, both inside the bands, and just outside them. Outside them is not our concern; we are not the FCC. I hear them regularly, in English, just below 40 meters in the evenings, but these are not a problem for hams. I have, though, on occasion, heard them move up and into 40 meters.

The FCC granted local authorities the rights to investigate reports of interference to consumer devices by CB radios. I think this is at least a feeble attempt to enlist aid at the local level, but I doubt it will work well for three reasons. One, the police have enough to do without policing radios. Two, the police are required to respond to specific complaints, rather than do general searches for illegal equipment, and three, the police are not trained in recognizing illegal radio installations.

Possibly the only way it could be addressed, at least at the trucker level, would be authorizing (and training) DOT personnel at port of entry points to also check radio installations. My guess is these DOT personnel are already burdened considerably with vehicle and records inspections, so even that suggestion would require additional personnel, meaning additional funding, meaning additional taxes. And even that, as an interest to us hams, would not show that any trucker was operating illegal "on the ham bands!" Only that he had illegal CB equipment.

In short, if we want to clean up our bands, it IS up to us. But we can't do it as "authorities" - only as volunteers.

I doubt we'll win, as I mentioned in an earlier post. But we are 'the only game in town.'

Ed

[WG4STV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JUSTAHAM @ Oct. 12 2003,13:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Take a look in the new winter AES catalog...they are selling handheld AIRCRAFT RADIOS THAT TX RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX ON THE AERO FREQS!! #As a commercial heavy jet jockey I wonder how long before that band will be f****d too!!! #Even have the new modes in them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I understand your point. #However, being that interferance with flight crew members is a federal offense, I believe the FCC would be hard pressed to find illegal ops on a/c freqs. #Especially after 9-11. #They have satellites that can pinpoint an ELT signal in little to no time. #They also have satellites that can pick out certain words spoken over a cell phone and identify the cell phone. #I think the government would make a hard example of someone who plays jokes over the a/c freqs. #Remember Captain Midnight? #In about 1984 or 1985 or so, he pointed a directional antenna at CNN's satellite and over-rode it's signal and for about 20 seconds he was the star of the show. #Right off the bat they had the signal narrowed to SE Nebraska. #They caught him less than a week later. #James R McDougal was his name I believe.

[WT0A]

Thought it was HBO and he was in Florida

[DA1TNJ]

Folks, what needs to be done here is to fill the law makers
mail boxes "FULL" of these complaints, grips and evidence.
The illegal operators know that as long as we only complain
in forums such as these nothing will be done to stop them.
I truely believe it is our job to monitor, gather information
and report it to the FCC. #I also believe the FCC is only
one organization and they are held to a budget. #The cost
to track down and find these illegal operators is simply not
in their budget. #It's sad but it's true.

People need to be held accountable for their actions and
until the law makers get the message I honestly do not
believe anything will be done. #I believe hams should write
the law makers along with the FCC, include information,
callsigns, recordings of necessary, if anything is going to be
done about the illegal operators not just on the 10 mtr band
but every ham band. #Illegal ops don't just operate on the
10 mtr band, they're everywhere.

It's unfortunate that today most people are not held
accountable for their actions. #In todays courts people
pass blame on someone else to keep themselves from having
to be accountable. #"It's the tobacco company's fault that
I got lung cancer from smoking", "It's the automobile
manufacture fault that I drove too fast and rolled my car
over and broke my leg" or "It's the radio manufactures fault
that it transmits on the 10 mtr band, I thought it was a CB
radio". #That's a bunch of crap! #We allow that to happen,
day in and day out, over and over again and illegal operators
are no different. #Why does this continue to happen? #
Because the illegal ops know "Nothings going to happen".
Why? #Because all we do is complain in a forum. #We will
sit for hours, in our back yards with our spouses, neighbors,
friends and fellow hams saying "Those 10mtr illegal ops need
to be stopped". #But do we do anything other than that?
No, so the illegal ops know nothing's going to happen to them
so they continue operating on 10, 12, 15 and the many other
ham bands they operate on.

Blame the manufactures? #To some extent I agree yet what
needs to be done is "FORCE" the manufactures to market
equipment that CAN NOT BE MODIFIED and hold them
accountable if they market equipment that can be modified.

As for the illegal ops. #Ten meters is not the only band they
are on. #What about those ops who don't ID as the rules
says? #What about the ops that use their call signs yet
use foul language? #What about the actual 11 mtr ops
who use modified HAM AMPS on 11 mtrs? #So 10 mtrs is not
the only band they operate on. #As for foreign ops who
operate illegally on the ham bands? #Are you really sure
they are illegal? #Are you? #Unless you are from that country
and know the radio laws of that country then how does one
know they are illegal? # Foreign countries have different
laws and simply because American laws says one thing
doesn't mean it's so in a foreign country. #Example,
FM CB is authorized in Europe but not in America.

You want to stop the illegal ops in America then start
writing to the law makers, fill their mail boxes full of
information, evidence etc not some simple "I heard
a guy on 10mtrs the other day who is illegal" and not
have some concrete evidence to back it up. #The law
makers don't read this forum, hams do.

American and foreign money has been changed over and over
again to prevent counterfeiting so why can't a ham license be
the same and if you want to buy a ham radio, produce
your license. #To much you say? #If you want to stop the
illegal operators then something has to change and simply
telling the manufactures to produce HAM only equipment
for HAMs will not stop them.

I guess it's the same for illegal drugs and guns. #I don't have one nor will I ever own one nor will I ever use illegal drugs.
Folks complain about illegal drugs and guns, over and over
again. #It's not the illegal drugs or the guns that's the problem
it's people not being held accountable and the same goes for
illegal operators. #The radio is not at fault, it does exactly
what the "operator" tells it to do. #People need to be held
accountable and until we force the law makers to make this
happen then nothing and I mean nothing will change. #You'll
still have illegal drug users, illegal/stolen guns being used
in robberies and hear voice on the low end of 10 mtrs and
other bands for that matter.

Don't believe me or think I'm full of it, then simply do nothing
and see what happens. # "But I'm just one person". #Yep,
you're right, just one person and that "one person" can
make a difference with thousand and thousand of others who
tell the law makers we're not going to tolerate this anymore!

Don't care? #Well, that's the reason things are the way
they are today! #People need to be held accountable for
their actions and standing by waiting for "Someone else"
to do it won't cut it. #It takes everyone to get involved.
Hold people accountable and force the law makers to
make it happen is the only way things will change! Simply
complaining here won't do it.

73's
Mike

[N5USN]

For Sale: Truck Identification Mirror. Used to read a license plate of a truck doing 65 MPH while you are talking on your cellphone AND ham radio.

Must be over 18 to purchase!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n9wwr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Oct. 11 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Truckers in 9 land may be set for 68 mph. #Here in the west, where speed limits are legally 75 mph, most trucks can run that or considerably more. #The average truck is running 72 or so, and probably 4 out of 10 are running the legal limit. #Once in a while one is over the limit, but in fairness to the truckers, the idea that the big trucks are all speeding is a perception by ill-informed car drivers.
#There are still a number of illegal CB amplifiers being sold on eBay, too. #I found several, including Galaxy, Afterburner and others. # #
Possibly the only way it could be addressed, at least at the trucker level, would be authorizing (and training) DOT personnel at port of entry points to also check radio installations. #My guess is these DOT personnel are already burdened considerably with vehicle and records inspections, so even that suggestion would require additional personnel, meaning additional funding, meaning additional taxes. #And even that, as an interest to us hams, would not show that any trucker was operating illegal "on the ham bands!" #Only that he had illegal CB equipment.
##[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't want to start a p--sing match but again most of the trucks are set at 68 mph because of insurance and fuel milage. Schiender and J.B. Hunt, the 2 largest trucking companys in the country, have them set at this speed limit. It doesn't matter if it's 75 mph where your live or 55/65 mph here. Some of the trucks that you are seeing exceeding 75 mph are the smaller companies and owner operators.
#As for Ebay, those adds SHOULD have been pulled off Ebay by Ebay. I know this for a fact because a friend of mine was tring to sell all of his 11 meter stuff which included a amp. His add was pulled because the amp and radio (more than 4 watts) were illegal.
#As for the DOT scale, remember guys it's illegal to operate outside the 40 channels and illegal to operate more then 4 watts. It's NOT illegal to own the radio. Just like a radar detector. It's illegal to have on in a commerical truck but not in a car. (Some state laws differ on car operation tho.)
I agree that the DOT has their hands full tring to keep trucks off the road that are a rolling death traps or over tired drivers running more that one log book. Do you really think the DOT has the time to check out radios? There is 500,000 plus trucks on the road. As for the FCC fining the drivers, do it. Remember the driver has to be caught first and the FCC dosn't have the man power to check all the trucks. You really can't go after the company because it's not their equipment. If the driver was selling drugs out of the truck then the company is at risk because this is more severe then operating out of band. I own a 2510 but I don't run it in at all because I am not licensed to operate it. I feel that my license is more important to me then having a "BIG" radio.
Besides the garbage that is on channel 19 is not worth listening to. My cobra 19 plus works just fine if I want to listen the the echo boxes and over modulated road drivers.
# In closing I feel that this is a losing battle. And please remember that the next truck you come accross could be one of those trucks that should not be on the road. Please keep a safe driving distance because if one of those tires blow there is 110 psi behind it. The cap of the tire can go threw a windshield or if run over it can send your car out of control.

73s
John
1 million + miles of safe operation. (12 years of operation)

[n9wwr]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DA1TNJ @ Oct. 11 2003,18:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Folks, what needs to be done here is to fill the law makers
mail boxes "FULL" of these complaints, grips and evidence.
The illegal operators know that as long as we only complain
in forums such as these nothing will be done to stop them.
I truely believe it is our job to monitor, gather information
and report it to the FCC. #I also believe the FCC is only
one organization and they are held to a budget. #The cost
to track down and find these illegal operators is simply not
in their budget. #It's sad but it's true.

People need to be held accountable for their actions and
until the law makers get the message I honestly do not
believe anything will be done. #I believe hams should write
the law makers along with the FCC, include information,
callsigns, recordings of necessary, if anything is going to be
done about the illegal operators not just on the 10 mtr band
but every ham band. #Illegal ops don't just operate on the
10 mtr band, they're everywhere.

It's unfortunate that today most people are not held
accountable for their actions. #In todays courts people
pass blame on someone else to keep themselves from having
to be accountable. #"It's the tobacco company's fault that
I got lung cancer from smoking", "It's the automobile
manufacture fault that I drove too fast and rolled my car
over and broke my leg" or "It's the radio manufactures fault
that it transmits on the 10 mtr band, I thought it was a CB
radio". #That's a bunch of crap! #We allow that to happen,
day in and day out, over and over again and illegal operators
are no different. #Why does this continue to happen? #
Because the illegal ops know "Nothings going to happen".
Why? #Because all we do is complain in a forum. #We will
sit for hours, in our back yards with our spouses, neighbors,
friends and fellow hams saying "Those 10mtr illegal ops need
to be stopped". #But do we do anything other than that?
No, so the illegal ops know nothing's going to happen to them
so they continue operating on 10, 12, 15 and the many other
ham bands they operate on.

Blame the manufactures? #To some extent I agree yet what
needs to be done is "FORCE" the manufactures to market
equipment that CAN NOT BE MODIFIED and hold them
accountable if they market equipment that can be modified.

As for the illegal ops. #Ten meters is not the only band they
are on. #What about those ops who don't ID as the rules
says? #What about the ops that use their call signs yet
use foul language? #What about the actual 11 mtr ops
who use modified HAM AMPS on 11 mtrs? #So 10 mtrs is not
the only band they operate on. #As for foreign ops who
operate illegally on the ham bands? #Are you really sure
they are illegal? #Are you? #Unless you are from that country
and know the radio laws of that country then how does one
know they are illegal? # Foreign countries have different
laws and simply because American laws says one thing
doesn't mean it's so in a foreign country. #Example,
FM CB is authorized in Europe but not in America.

You want to stop the illegal ops in America then start
writing to the law makers, fill their mail boxes full of
information, evidence etc not some simple "I heard
a guy on 10mtrs the other day who is illegal" and not
have some concrete evidence to back it up. #The law
makers don't read this forum, hams do.

American and foreign money has been changed over and over
again to prevent counterfeiting so why can't a ham license be
the same and if you want to buy a ham radio, produce
your license. #To much you say? #If you want to stop the
illegal operators then something has to change and simply
telling the manufactures to produce HAM only equipment
for HAMs will not stop them.

I guess it's the same for illegal drugs and guns. #I don't have one nor will I ever own one nor will I ever use illegal drugs.
Folks complain about illegal drugs and guns, over and over
again. #It's not the illegal drugs or the guns that's the problem
it's people not being held accountable and the same goes for
illegal operators. #The radio is not at fault, it does exactly
what the "operator" tells it to do. #People need to be held
accountable and until we force the law makers to make this
happen then nothing and I mean nothing will change. #You'll
still have illegal drug users, illegal/stolen guns being used
in robberies and hear voice on the low end of 10 mtrs and
other bands for that matter.

Don't believe me or think I'm full of it, then simply do nothing
and see what happens. # "But I'm just one person". #Yep,
you're right, just one person and that "one person" can
make a difference with thousand and thousand of others who
tell the law makers we're not going to tolerate this anymore!

Don't care? #Well, that's the reason things are the way
they are today! #People need to be held accountable for
their actions and standing by waiting for "Someone else"
to do it won't cut it. #It takes everyone to get involved.
Hold people accountable and force the law makers to
make it happen is the only way things will change! Simply
complaining here won't do it.

73's
Mike[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree 100%....Thank you for your post....

As for the mods of Ham radios. Guys check out this web sight. It supports posts for mods to ham radios to operate out of band. Maybe www.qrz.com should pull the illegal mods off this sight. One example look for the mods on the RCI 2950.



John

[vk7bbw]

Down in VK, we have been putting up with pirate activity around 28.5 for over twenty years. Our problem does not come from trucker activity, rather it comes from commercial operators in Indonesia, as well as other Asian locations. It is not only limited to 10m. The VK6's complain, that of an evening and morning, 80m is virtually unworkable due to the asian pirate problem, both on SSB and AM, as well as 40. (listen to the Indons on 7.000mhz when you have a chance) The problem lies in the fact that the stockists and retailers of amateur transmitters sell their products not with responsility in mind, but profitability in mind. Added to that amateur radio equipment is usually cheaper to set up base and mobile, than commercial units. That particular problem is not only restricted to Asia either. It is a problem world wide, including Australia. When we get serious about policing the laws about selling amateur radio equipment to unlicensed operators, the problem is only going to get worse.
Cheers
Paul
VK7BBW

[KA2YBP_Jim]

Ha! 10 meters?

Listen to 7240 weekdays after 4 and hear the guy they call "suckbag", your basic unlicensed operator that they all talk to...

Riley, go get him near Chicopee, Mass, you SOB. He's there any day of the week and twice on Sundays! Do him like you did me!

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA2YBP_Jim @ Oct. 11 2003,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ha! #10 meters? #

Listen to 7240 weekdays after 4 and hear the guy they call "suckbag", your basic unlicensed operator that they all talk to...

Riley, go get him near Chicopee, Mass, you SOB. He's there any day of the week and twice on Sundays! #Do him like you did me![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So, did the Commission pull your license or drop the case?

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Oct. 11 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A growing problem is the Freebanders moving into other HF ham bands, from 40 meters on through 30, 20 and 12, both inside the bands, and just outside them. Outside them is not our concern; we are not the FCC. I hear them regularly, in English, just below 40 meters in the evenings, but these are not a problem for hams. I have, though, on occasion, heard them move up and into 40 meters.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi Ed,
After reading your post, I thought I might tune in just below the 40 meter band tonight and see if anyone was there. Sure enough, someone claiming to be "Radio Free Texas" was on the air @ 6990 KHz LSB. Wow, wonder how long that is going to last?

[kcrt4719]

Shoot, I don't see what the big deal is with these "unlicensed" "10-meter" operations! I worked very hard to earn KCRT4719- just because everyone these days hasn't worked that hard doesn't mean that everyone is bad! I think those who choose to work in Skipland (yeah, that's the real name- not this "10-Meter" thing y'all are talking about) should be recognized for their acheivements -- But only if they went to the trouble to get their CB permit!

Now I don't vernture up into Skipland very much any more- all that foreigns stuff just doesn't do much for me. Between that and all the beeping racket on channel 192 and up I just can't get much done!

Three's to all y'all!
KCRT4719
West Virginia CBers Convention

[WT0A]

see www.signaltonoise.net/library/captainmidnight knew it wasn't se Nebraska as I wortk at the only teleport in this area with the capability.

[k5ahh]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif K0QHH, #I visited that site hoping to read something about Captain Midnight, but I was pleasantly surprised by Britney Spears in a provocative red little outfit...much better than Captain Midnight I must say! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[WT0A]

ok, just search for captain midnight on google. think it was second or third one down.
73 Glen

[WA2CKP]

I would like to say that WG4STV has hit the nail on the head.
Weigh stations, Inspector, Examine, Confistication, Fines.
In New York City, Taxi's were transmitting on the 10 meter Ham Band with illegally modified Citizens Band radio's.
In 1998, The New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission put forth a special initiative.

The Commission teamed up with the FCC to test these radios as they came into the inspection site in Woodside.

A stern warning was sent to the taxicab owners and operators, that these radios will not be tolerated.
TLC fines would range from $100 to 5,000 dollars. Within a few days, after several radios were confiscated and some fines handed out, #the problem went away ..
Amateur Radio operators had given the T.L.C. over 700 taxi medallion numbers that had radios operating "out of band". But the bottom line was , testing the radios when they came in for inspection. The same could be said for the weigh station suggestion.
Thank you,
73

[N9TTX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Quote (N9TTX @ Oct. 10 2003,16:28)#I find it funny that they sell them via various online and # other companies as "10-meter" rigs. #99% of these are AM/FM or AM/FM/SSB rigs with an occasional CW option now and again. Even after they are "converted" to run 6+ bands of 40 channels, they will not dial up above 28.305 Mhz...Another manufacturer which is a legit Amateur radio manufacturer which may need to be looked at (I have not seen the new DX versions, though I have heard it is a bit more involved to convert now) is Ranger or RCI. #Personally I am an avid fan of these rigs. #I have them ONLY for 10 meter...or planning on using them as a permanent all-mode IF drivers for UHF/SHF transverters. #the older styles # # # converted to CB easily if that is what one wanted, # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Dave....N9TTX


The HR2510 and HR 2600 can cover 26.000 to 29.999 once converted. The older RCI 2950 and 2970 will cover 26.000 to 32.000 once converted. I know this because I owned both the 2510 and 2950 before I got my license. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I know so did and do I...I do not personally care for the 2510, but if you read the post I was talking about the "export" rigs being sold under a 10 meter label.....the 2950's and the 2510's ARE 10 meter rigs...they just happen to be easy to convert. #I am talking about the rigs that look like a standard Cobra 148 or 148F...they have a channel readout or a channel readout and a freq counter. #they are set up for 6-12 bands of 40. #brands among others are galaxy, connex, superstar, & palomar. #The ranger and HR2510's are legal ham rigs that people convert...one can group these in with your standard big three HF rigs, although it seems they made programming to seemingly cater to the CB crowd which is wrong.

# As for the amps...only amps legal to be sold as 10 meter need to be FCC authorized now if I remember right...and authorized per brand AND model. #Also they cannot be sold as HF amps unless they are able to RF switch with at least 50 watts....anything under that is not legal for sale. #Although it makes provision for those amateurs to construct/modify existing amps for their own use on the HF bands to the tune of one per year..unless that has changed too.

# # # # #Dave..N9TTX

[AE6IP]

So let me see if I get this right. Riley and friends at the FCC made a 'concerted effort' and are getting ready to conclude there's not a problem, and the whiners want the people who inspect trucks to look for this problem that the FCC couldn't find?

Next thing you know, someone's going to start demanding random drug testing of CB radio store clerks.

It's called a sense of proportion, and it seems to be mainly missing in this thread.

73,

Marty

[wb9gkz]

Folks, the FCC will never get anything done on this issue as long as it is run by a group of paper-pushers (lawyers).

Please consider the fact that the FCC shut-down the bulk of its field monitoring and field engineering facilities years ago. #The FCC now tries to police the ham bands by mailing letters. #Great. #That's gonna'
nail the truckers speeding down the interstate at 70+MPH!

Another thought: This great nation of ours can't keep out millions of illegal aliens flooding our country doing everything from mowing lawns to blowing up skyscrapers. Do you think that the gov't really cares about a few thousand "export" radios sold within our borders?

[K2ACX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Oct. 11 2003,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What is our problem is the lack of legal activity between 28.000MHz and 28.300MHz. I would propose MOVING the beacon sub-band to the common abuse frequencies...
97.203(d) would need to be changed first for AUTOMATIC beacons...

OR

More legal amateur operation so the bootleggers do not think they are in virgin territory.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think ideas like these are a good start. #While some 'freebanders' will undoubtedly continue to claim a god-given right to operate a radio illegally, I would guess that many of them have no idea what frequency they're on. #So many of these '10-meter' rigs are, after all, channelized in 'bands' of 40 and don't have displays. #

We could probably reduce the problem a little simply by keeping the band active. #Beacons on the problem 'channels' can help in the absence of live ops. #Maybe we need to rethink the ten meter bandplan and consider allowing voice operation on the lower frequencies. #This would present those illegals who may not otherwise know with an even more obvious sign that they've stumbled onto someone else's property.

Just a thought.
Brian K2ACX

[K2ACX]

And then there's Copper Electronics (and others of their ilk), who for an additional thirty bucks or so will modify your new Magnum BigTalker Frequency-Shooter Double DX Bonanza II for out-of-band operation before it's even shipped to you. #Just click the box and proceed to checkout!

How many licensed hams would actually buy and use something with a name like that? #

"Good ta meet ya there Jack, rig here is a Galaxy Nebula-Blaster DX Seventy-Seven-Hunnert with TurboTune......"

Brian K2ACX

[AF4K]

Why don't they go after the TRUCK STOPS that sell 10 meter radios off the shelf to truckers?

To see these, all you have to do is visit various truck stops along I-95 and I-75 and the Florida Turnpike
where they have display cases clearly displaying radios
with labels that say "10 meter radio" on them.

Many other outlets push ham equipment to truckers
for use as a substitute for CB.

Sadly the WORST incursions appear to come from the Carribean or Central America where CBers run amuck
in the CW portion of the 10m band on a daily basis and no one does anything to stop them.

Is it possible that some of these stations are in the Southwest U.S.A.? If so, perhaps some observant radio amateurs down in TX or NM could catch them and report them.

[W9WHE]

One thing is certain, if we don't try, it will only get worse!

[w3rlw]

Well,
It seems to me that the FCC is being quite reasonable.

The Amatuer Bands have always been self policing. Id like to see it kept that way. Additional rules from above will hinder the Licensed Amatuer more that any of the unlicensed group.

I interpret the policy as being one of " We are to Help you in any way we can. just let us know who the 'perps' are". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ke4zhn]

Jim K7UNZ hit the nail right on the head! Policing our own bands is one thing. But why does the FCC expect amateurs to do their jobs for them? There are people being paid by the US taxpayers to make rules and regulations and also enforce those rules. As Jim mentioned, I cant see myself ratting out truck drivers and any cb misfit who happens to be running an illegal rig, when in fact its NOT my job to do so! Also, I have no legal authority to do so and refuse to play cop on their behalf. And even when you DO report any violations, your lucky to even get a reply from the "overworked" folks at the FCC! I say,let Riley and the boys up in Washington do THEIR jobs and do some DF' ing and grab some of the rule breaking louts on 10 mtrs. themselves. Why should they sit back and draw a nice hefty paycheck while hams do their job for them? And another thing while Im on a good rant, why have they waited SO long to realize there is a problem on 10? This has gone on for years and years, and just now the commission is just catching on to the fact? I always seem to hear the excuses from the commission that they lack the funds, and the manpower to do more active enforcement. Well, Im sorry that the government is so underfunded that the FCC is crippled in this regard, but perhaps if they cut some of the dead wood making huge salaries for doing nothing, they would have more money to pursue enforcement matters. This isnt the amateurs fault, or problem. What is our problem is an FCC who expects us to police ourselves AND other services (cb) that ran wild due to the FCC`s own incompetance. They made the mess that cb has become by deregulating it, let THEM fix the damage. And just what exactly can be done about foreign countries who have no government radio enforcement whatsoever? How can you stop the spanish pirates from destroying 10 when they arent in the US? Blame this on greedy folks who sold tons of these illegal rigs to anyone with a few bucks in his pocket in the interest of making an easy profit. Why cant the FCC give the go ahead for weigh station DOT officials who already have police authority, to confiscate illegal rigs and amps at scale houses? Just supply the officers with lists of illegal gear, and let them grab those rigs on sight, no technical knowledge would be needed by these officers. Clinton already gave police the authority to make arrests for cb interference matters, so why not carry it a step further? Anyway, as usual, the politicians up in Washington wash their hands of something, and leave the people to deal with the mess they made of it, nothing new here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KU2S]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3drk @ Oct. 11 2003,15:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When an amateur radio store sells illegal amplifiers they get fined. Why not fine the radio manufacturers like Kenwood for putting 2 and 10 meters rigs for sale at truck stops. Last I heard they were selling hf rigs at these truck stops. Boycott Kenwood Products.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
... and would you care to explain exactly WHY that should be so? It's not illegal to offer Amateur radio equipment for sale at truck stops, Ham Fests, Department stores or via mail order. Just because an outlet is frequented by truck drivers is no reason to prohibit sales of radio equipment there. I happen to personally know of several truck drivers that are also ham operators.

Your statement seems to indicate a severe lack of knowledge on several legal issues. First of all, understand this. A license is not required to purchase, possess, or to even utilize the receiver function of an amateur radio transciever. A license is required only to operate the transmitter section. Consequently, there is no requirement on the part of the retailer to verify any license information. There is no requirement for a wholesaler to ensure that the radio is distributed only to "acceptable" outlets, as there are no legal stipulations to ownership. Lastly, it is certainly NOT the fault of the manufacturer of the equipment if it falls into the wrong hands and is used illegally.

Thinking of yours is what gets firearms manufacturers sued for the criminal acts of those who use illegally obtained weapons in the commission of crimes. Thinking like yours can result in us all living in a police state. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KU2S]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WG4STV @ Oct. 12 2003,08:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Oct. 11 2003,18<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We should be on the alert to identify, repeat, identify, illegal interlopers into our bands, and that's what this is all about. #But there has to be substantial hard evidence before the FCC can do anything, so taping one conversation between Mama Bear and Billy The Kid isn't going to hack it. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well here's an idea then: #Have some FCC inspectors camp out at weigh stations. #The truckers have to stop there to drive over the scales. #If the inspector sees an antenna on a rig, kindly inform the driver that he would like to inspect his station. #They have a right to do this. #If an illegal rig is found, confiscate the equipment and fine the driver and the company if it's a company truck. #Of course the word will travel quickly that an FCC inpection is taking place at this paticular stop, so when that happens, move to a different location. #It will only take a few of these for word to travel quickly and the drivers will probably not want to own these illegal rigs. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Uhhh.... HELLOOO!!!!! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ILLEGAL HAM RIG!!!!!!!!!

How can anyone obtain an amateur radio license and NOT be aware of the fact that ANYONE can own a ham radio. It is NOT the POSSESSION of a radio that is illegal. It is the UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE TRANSMITTER.

Christ, did you people actually forget the subject matter of the Technician's test?

I suppose you propose that truckers allow an FCC rep to ride shotgun to make sure they don't use 10 meter radios on the road?

The equipment is not the problem, Mr. Hollingsworth needs to step down from his ARRL sponsored Golden Grandstand & stop asking for "proof" there is a problem! He is the problem or his hearing/listening needs to be checked!

How many times in the past 5 years have you supplied information, recordings or emails about unlicensed offenders or even habitual offenders? Now he blankly stares out amongst us & asks for for "more"? I guess he can't hear anything on his pretty little radio station?

After giving Mr. Hollingsworth the location & operating habits of the 7240 Suckbag, he supplied us with a pager/PIN number for "HFDF alerting" when Suckbag was on. After repeated calls, he sent a message to one of the guys saying "I don't have time to be an email penpal". Really nice, what does it take Riley to enforce the law?

Seems to me that the farce surrounding "enforcement" is we do all the heavy lifting, he doesn't even lift a pinky but draws a salary & gloriful headlines of "success". My only question: For what???

Suckbag is on 7240 for 3-5 hours a day & instead of the unlicensed getting caught, the OO's harrass the licensed stations for talking to him? So much for having faith in this "stepped up OO presence". The FCC can't DF a receiver so ignoring him won't help! This guy is not DX (like the 10M excuse), he is right in between the Boston & New York FCC offices!

If the FCC was doing their job, there would be no unlicensed, habitual offenders like Suckbag, to deal with. If you really want to help, find Suckbag & remove his transmitting ability while determining his callsign & posting it publicly!

If I were closer to CT/MA, I'd find him myself, just to eliminate the endless harrassment Suckbag delivers everyday to those who ID their stations.

Afterall, he knows everyone's callsign (and business) but his own!

KB2JHD

[K3CW]

I think the FCC has a plan to deal with
unlicensed 11 meter operation -> BPL! #

Why should they bother with the hassle of enforcement when they're about to approve a technology that will obliterate most of that spectrum anyway? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[WD8OQX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WG4STV @ Oct. 12 2003,16:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JUSTAHAM @ Oct. 12 2003,13:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Take a look in the new winter AES catalog...they are selling handheld AIRCRAFT RADIOS THAT TX RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX ON THE AERO FREQS!! #As a commercial heavy jet jockey I wonder how long before that band will be f****d too!!! #Even have the new modes in them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I understand your point. #However, being that interferance with flight crew members is a federal offense, I believe the FCC would be hard pressed to find illegal ops on a/c freqs. #Especially after 9-11. #They have satellites that can pinpoint an ELT signal in little to no time. #They also have satellites that can pick out certain words spoken over a cell phone and identify the cell phone. #I think the government would make a hard example of someone who plays jokes over the a/c freqs. #Remember Captain Midnight? #In about 1984 or 1985 or so, he pointed a directional antenna at CNN's satellite and over-rode it's signal and for about 20 seconds he was the star of the show. #Right off the bat they had the signal narrowed to SE Nebraska. #They caught him less than a week later. #James R McDougal was his name I believe.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If this technology exist (and I believe it does) then why the H&*^% doesn't the goverment use it & crack down on these yeahoos. I can see the "freebanders" thinking "we got the cb band by doing are thing - we can get any band we want in the same way." It is time to show all of them that that is pure BS.

The biggest mistake the FCC ever made was to cut back on the personel. Maybe they need some volenteers that are willing to put in there own time to clean this up. Giving someone the authority without the pay would give the FCC no excuse not to get the job done. As there biggest excuse is "we don't have the money to have the manpower" Any takers?

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KU2S @ Oct. 12 2003,13:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Uhhh.... HELLOOO!!!!! #THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ILLEGAL HAM RIG!!!!!!!!!

How can anyone obtain an amateur radio license and NOT be aware of the fact that ANYONE can own a ham radio. #It is NOT the POSSESSION of a radio that is illegal. #It is the UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE TRANSMITTER.

Christ, did you people actually forget the subject matter of the Technician's test?

I suppose you propose that truckers allow an FCC rep to ride shotgun to make sure they don't use 10 meter radios on the road?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Far too many users on this site are forgetting this little detail! Especially the no-code tech that thinks he has been licensed for 30 years that emailed me and told me to get a better antenna.

HAM GEAR is not "FCC Certified" (ok, the receiver must meet FCC Certification, but NOT the transmitter, and this is only if it is sold new and not homebrew).

While most hams would avoid this junk, there are many out there that buy it just to get their feet wet on 10 meters.

Some would be happy for this inexpensive radio junk to go away... and deprive those that cannot afford better rigs.

Some think that a modified radio is evil, and should be BANNED, this is the same thinking the less informed have for gun control, or muscle cars (remember in the early 70's when there was a move to ban high proformance cars???).

If the FCC was serious about the spectrum between 26 and 28 MHz, they would enlist the aid of the DOT and inspect the radio at regular weigh station checks. The FCC has already empowered local police to enforce CB so this would not be a stretch.

If amateurs were serious about 28 to 29.7MHz, there would be more legal activity in the CW sub bands...

[m0cus]

There might be one way to solve the illegal operaters.In the UK we have introduced a new calss of licence called the foundation class. It has the M3 prefix. This licence allows access to most of the ham bands on hf & vhf excluding 10m and above 70cms with a 10 watt power restriction. The licence can be taken in a couple of evenings. This has had a detremintal effect on the 27mhz ssb operators as quite a few of them took the licence and abandoned illegal operation completly. If more countries adopted the idea then it would get to the stage that there would be so few illegal operators it would not be worth their time switching the radio on or will push them into taking the exam. I know of several so called die hard illegal operators who now operate fully within the terms of their new ham licences. This stragety was used in the UK with cb in the 1980's. AM cb was illegal in the UK so the government introduced an fm cb system about 600khz above ch40 am. Within a couple of years am cb died a death. From what I can gather the same is now happening to uk illegal ssb.
BTW I dont think our M3 licence is perfect but its a start.

[K8YS]

and this is from the ARRL web site:

September 26, 2003


Mr. James E. Perryman
619 Acklin
Toledo, OH 43620


RE: Warning Notice: Amateur Radio license KC8KOU
Case #EB-2003-633

Dear Mr. Perryman:


We continue to receive complaints about the operation of radio transmitting equipment from your residence, and about possible eavesdropping on telephone calls. You are advised that any rule violations on CB frequencies or any other frequencies will adversely reflect upon your qualifications to hold an Amateur license and will subject you to monetary penalties. You are reminded that your station is subject to inspection at any time by Commission personnel.


The operation of non-certified equipment on CB frequencies, i.e. Amateur equipment, modified or non-certified CB equipment or linear amplifiers of any type, will result in a monetary forfeiture in the range of $7,500 to $10,000 as well as in rem seizure of non-certified equipment, in cooperation with the United States Attorney in your jurisdiction..


Please call me at 717-338-2502 if you have any questions about this matter.


CC: Northeastern Regional Director, FCC



This is one way to cure the problem, but you know as well as I do, the ham in question is going to write an apology, promise never to do it again, and all will be forgiven... what needs to be done is to impose the fine, have him cut a big check to the US Treasury, and others will think twice before following the same path.

[N7COA]

Here in Wyoming, a couple of the Flying J truck stops were selling a 10/11 meter radio with 25 or more watts. They had no idea the radios were illegal as there was no type acceptance or data tag on any of the radios. When informed that only licensed amateur radio operators could use 10 meters the people were somewhat surprised but no longer sell those radios at the truck stops. Sometimes if we talk to the right people--- http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif . We do hear truckers on 10 and when we come back to them and ask for a call sign we are answered with silence. That's one way, at least for a while. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K8YS]

Who was that cartoon character that said "We have met the enemy, and it is us"??

I found an interesting post on eBay... how about a ham that is posting 26-30MHz amp construction details in the CB Section... he said his book beats anything published by the ARRL... check it out for yourself, and let the poster know your disgust.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....y=40055 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3052952147&category=40055)

[KE4MOB]

It saddens me to no end to see the types of posts that some have offered up here in response to the FCC:

"It's not our place to police the bands."

Yet these exact same people will bitch (pardon the expression) about how "those bootleggers are taking over on 10 meters" and "we might as well start giving out licenses to CB'ers". #And even better yet "Why doesn't Riley do something about this?"

They want to use the park, yet have no responsibility in its' upkeep and maintenance. #What a shame! #

If you would get off of your LAZY butts, stop WHINING, and do something FOR THE GOOD OF HAM RADIO, maybe one of these days, we could say "we solved that problem". #But instead, until then, I suppose we'll just have to keep on hearing your bitching.

The FCC is asking for a hand. #Would it pain you too much to offer assistance?? #God forbid Riley Hollingsworth is ever hurt and bleeding alongside the interstate. #I really think some hams would pass right on by, thinking "it's not my problem!!". #Similarly, just spin the VFO, and the freebanders disappear!!

That attitude only serves to give the freebanders that much more spectrum of ours. #

Looks like a 10 meter vertical is going up at my QTH!!! # Freebanders be damned!!

[k5ahh]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Very well put.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif They wont do any thing, for it is far EASIER to " whine, cry and gripe " than to actually DO something ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif ...especially in a forum such as this...hiding behind a key board on a computer...and like the ones here who will NOT display their FCC call sign in the upper left corner, ( if there even IS one to put there ).. they are NO better. Go get the kids, or the neighbors and type a response, please. Hurry, before that idea you have gets away....quit wasting time...hurry hurry !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif according to the info provided by k8ys about the fcc actions on September 26, 2003...the station is classed as a TECHNICIAN...( go see for your self in the qrz.com call sign database )....no more questions. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3CW @ Oct. 13 2003,13:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the FCC has a plan to deal with
unlicensed 11 meter operation -> BPL!

Why should they bother with the hassle of enforcement when they're about to approve a technology that will obliterate most of that spectrum anyway? ;)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
... And are there plans lying in some dark FCC closet that include thinking the same thing about ham radio? That BPL will cause us to "go away?" ... to cease to exist?

Ah ha! Only the Shadow knows!

Ed

[Dayton86]

I feel like the FCC should do like they did when the budget was cut back for testing. VE were organized who now give the test. Why don't we have an orgaized group of volunteers who are able to submitt "offical" compliants to the FCC? It would not cut too much into their budget and I know quite a few people that would volunteer their time to clean up the problem. I myself don't have an HF license yet, but i would help to keep all the bands clean because hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable. In ham radio the job has to be done and since the FCC doesn't want to, we should.

Joshua KD5PIT 73 to all

[WT0A]

Joshua,
Ever hear of "Official Observers"?

[WT0A]

Whatever that is on 28.075 right now ought to be easy enough to find.

[AB0PO]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
All the flap about the illegal use of the 10-meter band is for naught. When the FCC finally does away with the Morse code requirement the biggest obstacle to becoming a ham will be gone, and these guys who are now buying the "export" galaxy and uniden radios will be embraced as fellow hams in good standing. So, fire up the linear "good buddy" and heat up those air waves!!!
Just a thought.
73's, AB0PO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[WG4STV]

Well sir, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is such thing as an illegal ham rig. #Let me give you an example. #You buy a legal 10 meter ham rig at the truck stop, then have Mr. Electronics Technician modify it to transmit on 11 meters, and let's say you even want a "roger beep" installed in it, so he installs it. #This ham radio is now in violation of the FCC type acceptance because of it's illegal modification even if you claim you do not transmit on it. #If it is hooked up to power and an antenna, you will have a hard time explaining to the feds that you don't transmit on it anyway. #If you believe that, then you believe that Bill Clinton really didn't inhale the marijuana that he admited that he smoked.

Bottom line is, if an illegally modified radio is hooked up to power and an antenna, that's just as good as transmiting on it. #You have to understand that the FCC is a different world than the civil and criminal court system. #Like I stated in an earlier post, back in 1986, a CB shop was imposed a $2000.00 fine for SIMPLE POSESSION of a President Jackson export CB designed by the factory to transmit on the standard 40 channels, plus 80 up and 80 down. #It had an unlocked clarifier also which slid the transmit freq as well as the receive freq. #Another illegal mod. #It had 50 watts of AM power. #Illegal. #Factory roger beep. #Illegal. #All the FCC inspector did was walk in and ask about CB radios and the clerk showed him one and he was busted.

No, I did not forget the subject matter on the technician's test. #One thing I clearly remember in the Gordon West Tech prep book is the clear warning of possessing a 10 meter radio modified to run on 11 meters. #This is an illegal mdification that can get you busted simply for having it hooked up to power and an antenna.

[kc8pgr]

The main radios I have seen here locally are from RCI/Ranger and Galaxy.They are sitting right in the truck stop waiting to be bought.Travelcenters Of America(TA) and Flying J as well as Pilot are the main chains where I have seen them.Most times there is a CB shop within 1 mile of the place with some just across the street.They advertise over CB Channel 19 that they are there and to go to another channel to get hold of them.Some are open 24 hours.So you go in and buy the radio after talking to the CB shop person(or you buy it from him/her) and then pay them say,$30-$50 or more and walk out with a new "modded radio".There are those on the CB band as well with these radios who could probably pass the test for a Tech Class license,maybe General,but would be "tossed out" of most bands within a week.Their Profanity,intentional interference,and disregard for rules would do them in.What we need to do in a respect is go after the sellers and mfrs.Maybe requiring that you produce a valid ham ticket to be able to buy the stuff and recording that on the receipt kept on file?It's sad to see this sort of thing happen.If however,we don't get a handle(NPI) on this,it'll end up like the CB band setup.Under siege and out of control.

Kaci Lynn Harber

[kc8pgr]

Reading some of the posts on this subject,I see a correlation here between the 10m/2m thing.There are many 2m and/or 2m/70cm rigs that can be modded to go "out of band" as well.How many of us who are Hams are fire/EMS persons as well?Need to xmit on your VHF or UHF fire channel?Mod the radio and use it on the channels you are allowed to use.Why buy a new radio when you have one already that will go there?My point is that no one is perfect and that we ALL may do things we shouldn't.Only time will tell if we get things solved with the problem operators,licensed or not.

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WG4STV @ Oct. 13 2003,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well sir, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is such thing as an illegal ham rig. #Let me give you an example. #You buy a legal 10 meter ham rig at the truck stop, then have Mr. Electronics Technician modify it to transmit on 11 meters, and let's say you even want a "roger beep" installed in it, so he installs it. #This ham radio is now in violation of the FCC type acceptance because of it's illegal modification even if you claim you do not transmit on it. #If it is hooked up to power and an antenna, you will have a hard time explaining to the feds that you don't transmit on it anyway. #If you believe that, then you believe that Bill Clinton really didn't inhale the marijuana that he admited that he smoked.

Bottom line is, if an illegally modified radio is hooked up to power and an antenna, that's just as good as transmiting on it. #You have to understand that the FCC is a different world than the civil and criminal court system. #Like I stated in an earlier post, back in 1986, a CB shop was imposed a $2000.00 fine for SIMPLE POSESSION of a President Jackson export CB designed by the factory to transmit on the standard 40 channels, plus 80 up and 80 down. #It had an unlocked clarifier also which slid the transmit freq as well as the receive freq. #Another illegal mod. #It had 50 watts of AM power. #Illegal. #Factory roger beep. #Illegal. #All the FCC inspector did was walk in and ask about CB radios and the clerk showed him one and he was busted.

No, I did not forget the subject matter on the technician's test. #One thing I clearly remember in the Gordon West Tech prep book is the clear warning of possessing a 10 meter radio modified to run on 11 meters. #This is an illegal mdification that can get you busted simply for having it hooked up to power and an antenna.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but you are not correct - you can read that as YOU ARE WRONG!. It is a LEGAL AMATEUR RADIO. But what it is also, it is an ILLEGAL CB RADIO....

Hams can own, hams can use, hams can sell, hams can modify, anything they want to own, use, buy, sell, trade, modify, on the HAM BANDS... (oh, did I say HAM BANDS?).. reality check time, the HAM BAND starts at 28,000,000 HERTZ, below that IS NOT A HAM BAND and is

NOT our concern or our problem. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

There is one minor detail that I should mention again, RECEIVERS must meet FCC Certification if they are being commercially manufactured and sold in the US market... but TRANSMITTERS are not certified... If you do not believe me, pick up your handy dandy ham radio and read the FCC notice... it says FCC PART 15 NOT FCC PART 97.

The exception to this rule is homebrew receivers, and then the FCC requires the builder to build a quality receiver... this is covered under "Good Amateur Practice".

So, the bottom line is this, you can buy a CB at your favorite truck stop, modify it for 10 meters and use it on 10 meters (provided you have a NOVICE Class license or higher (sorry, no no-code techs)... this is perfectly legal - period!

It has never ever been legal to use a Ham Radio outside the ham bands, but that is out side the ham bands and NOT OUR PROBLEM.

What is our problem is BOOTLEGGERS, using HAM GEAR, (yes, even that cheap junk that most self respecting hams avoid, it is still ham gear because it transmits on the ham bands) on our ham bands, without a ham license, without respect for international treaties.

So, it is WRONG to call anything an illegal ham radio.

Perhaps you need to re-read Gordon West's book again. I am sure you will not find any statement that says anything about modifing any radio to 10 meters ... #but what you will find is a warning that you cannot use a ham radio outside the ham bands. This does not equate to an ILLEGAL HAM RADIO!

[KU2S]

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