FCC STILL WEIGHING MORSE CODE RULES

[AA7BQ]

From the ARRL Letter: October 10, 2003

FCC INVITES COMMENTS ON ADDITIONAL MORSE CODE-RELATED PETITIONS

The FCC has sounded the bell to begin Round 2 of the Morse code debate by
inviting public comment on another group of seven Morse-related petitions
for rulemaking. The FCC put the petitions on public notice October 8, and
comments are due by November 7. Members of the amateur community may make
their opinions known on any or all of these filings using the FCC's
Electronic Comment Filing System (ECFS) <http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/>.
The petitions are RM-10805 through RM-10811. To summarize:

* Charles L. Young Jr, AG4YO, asks the FCC to delete the 5 WPM Morse code
test (Element 1) for Technician-plus-Element 1 privileges (formerly "Tech
Plus"). Designated RM-10805, his petition would retain Element 1 as an
examination requirement for General and Amateur Extra applicants and give
Technicians limited HF SSB privileges.

* Describing CW as "the purest, most accurate, efficient, reliable and
economical form of radio communications ever devised," Frank Napurano,
K2OKA, requests that the FCC retain the 5 WPM Morse requirement "in the
interest of public safety, the preservation of a radio art and as a
tribute of support for a prized and respected avocation." The FCC
designated his filing as RM-10806.

* A petition by Robert G. Rightsell, AE4FA and Harry A.M. Kholer, N0PU,
designated RM-10807, would continue Morse testing but give applicants up
to 24 points of exam credit according to their success on Element 1. The
final exam score would be the sum of earned Element 1 points and the
written test score for a possible total of 100 points. Their petition also
calls on the FCC to consolidate the Novice and Technician and the Advanced
and Amateur Extra licenses, boost the number and range of written test
questions and give new Technicians CW and data privileges.

* Joseph Speroni, AH0A, seeks to have the FCC delete Element 1 for
applicants who want to operate phone on HF but retain Element 1 at 5 WPM
for applicants who want to operate CW. Designated RM-10808, his petition
would restructure the Amateur Radio testing regime to require specific
knowledge of "RTTY, data, image, spread spectrum, pulse/test, RACES/ARES
and space communications only for those wishing to operate these modes."
Under Speroni's plan, applicants would be under no obligation to pass
mode-specific examination elements for mode privileges they don't wish to
operate.

* The Puerto Rico Amateur Radio League (PRARL) asks the FCC to delete
Element 1 for Technician and General classes but to increase the rigor of
the written elements for those two license classes. The PRARL would keep
the 5 WPM Morse exam for Extra applicants. The PRARL also would eliminate
same-session retesting and require 30 days between retakes. The petition
is designated RM-10809.

* James Roux, W4YA, proposes in his petition, designated RM-10810, that
the FCC cut the number of license classes to two--General and Amateur
Extra--and the number of written examination elements to one--at the
General level. Roux's petition would eliminate the 5 WPM Morse code exam
for General but require Extra applicants to pass a 15 WPM test. Roux also
would give Generals all currently available amateur privileges except the
Extra-class CW subbands.

* A petition filed on behalf of FISTS CW Club <http://www.fists.org> would
delete the requirement to pass Element 1 to obtain Technician plus Element
1 (ie, "Tech Plus") HF privileges. Designated RM-10811, it would merge
Tech and Tech Plus into a single class, emphasize technical content,
including digital modes, on written examinations and extend digital mode
privileges within Novice/Tech Plus subbands. It would not provide
additional HF phone privileges for Technicians, however. The FISTS
petition would retain a 5 WPM Morse exam for General applicants and raise
the Morse exam to 12 WPM for Amateur Extra applicants while increasing the
technical level on written examinations for both classes.

The FISTS CW Club petition had attracted more than 230 comments by week's
end. In all, the FCC had recorded a total of approximately 500 comments on
the seven petitions as of October 10.

Interested parties may file comments on any or all of these petitions
using the FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System (ECFS)
<http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/ecfs/>, which also permits users to view all
comments on file.

To file a comment, click on "Submit a Filing" under "ECFS Main Links." In
the "Proceeding" field, type the full RM number and complete the required
fields. "RM" must be in capital letters, and you must include the hyphen
between "RM" and the five-digit number. You may type your remarks into a
form or attach a file. ECFS also accepts comments in active proceedings
via e-mail, per instructions on the ECFS page.

To view filed comments, click on "Search for Filed Comments" under "ECFS
Main Links" and type in the complete RM number, including the hyphen, in
the "Proceeding" field. "RM" must be in capital letters.

================================================== ========
The ARRL Letter is published Fridays, 50 times each year, by the American
Radio Relay League--The National Association For Amateur Radio--225 Main
St, Newington, CT 06111; tel 860-594-0200; fax 860-594-0259;
<http://www.arrl.org>. Jim Haynie, W5JBP, President.

The ARRL Letter offers a weekly e-mail digest of essential news of
interest to active amateurs. The ARRL Letter strives to be timely,
accurate, concise, and readable. Visit ARRLWeb <http://www.arrl.org> for
the latest news, updated as it happens. The ARRL Web site
<http://www.arrl.org/> offers access to news, informative features and
columns. ARRL Audio News <http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/> is a
weekly "ham radio newscast" compiled from The ARRL Letter.

Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

[K0ZZE]

well i dont really know what to say about that.i think that they are just going to drop it. all of these so called petitions are ridiculous. all the fcc are going to due is sit around and read them and laugh at us all because were all fighting over something so ridiculous. and then one will turn to another and say "lets drop the code and grease our palms with BPL money and see what they cry about next!!"
KC0QME http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K0ZZE]

and yes, i am a tech and in the process of stuying my general. so none of that " looky, a no-coder was the first to post on this subject" crap. 73'

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #KC0QME http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif just leave things just as they are...no need in making things complicated for any one...keep it simple... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif kd4amg

[WD8OQX]

Personally, I wish they'd get it over with one way or the other as I'm getting tired of hearing about the crap.

But I'll tell you one thing, there had better be someone that can tell a dit from a dah if I'M sending an SOS.

Enough said!!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[n9wq]

Well it seems to me that the easy way to deal with this silly nonsense is to give all partys what they want?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yepp it can be done as easy as your mom would settle any dispute. lets see what my mom would of told me to do in this
situation. I think she would of said that the fellas/gals that want to take a code test go ahead and take that test and then you get to play with all the other kids who also took that test... for instance if you hold a "tech" licence without code you get to operate on all the phone bands that are currently specified tech plus phone bands and if you want to take the code test you get all the cw bands for that license class.if you want to be a general then you take the written test for general and stay on the phone bands. if you take that nasty code test you again get to go and play with all the other kids that also took that code test. extra, same deal if you want to do phone bands you have to take the written test only for the phone bands... seems to me that my mom was pretty smart !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif no need to add or subtarct to the current testing setup only which tests you take!!

Dave N9WQ P.S. my mom passed about 7 years ago but I am hear to tell ya fellas thats what she would of done http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[n5swf]

Gosh, with life so short, how do we have time to waste this way.
The FCC must also consider international agreements we have made and agreed to, concerning frequencies and their use. What about the international agreement for knowledge of cw, for the use of HF Phone bands? What about the CERT agreement, between signature nations?

Kirby, #N5SWF

[kc8yjw]

Didn't Dale Reich (K8AD) have a petition in on this as well??

As I recall his had some VERY interesting things in it...

Keith; KC8YJW

(and yes, I am a Tech)

[KC7DMF]

It's this simple live and let live, the code is here, the code shall stay, anyone who doesnt like it doesnt have to use HF, you have 50Mhz and on UP to 300Ghz is that not enough spectrum for ya? that a small little pieces of 30 Mhz worth is going to mean ?? and yes I am a general, and enjoy my HF but thats ME, I also do use a LOT of 2M and 70cm they both get used almost equally with me. So all in all, leave the code alone, it stays!

[WA9SVD]

Just to say that ultimately, the FCC WILL look at International cooperation/compliance/agreements.
There are no Amateur Radio Operators on the FCC Commission, so I doubt any of them care one way or another! They will decide what's easiest for them to enforce and easiest to conform to the general International Amateur Radio Community, and International regulations.

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n5swf @ Oct. 11 2003,15:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gosh, with life so short, how do we have time to waste this way.
The FCC must also consider international agreements we have made and agreed to, concerning frequencies and their use. What about the international agreement for knowledge of cw, for the use of HF Phone bands? What about the CERT agreement, between signature nations?

Kirby, #N5SWF[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Kirby,
I'm a bit confused by your comment, if you'll forgive me. The WRC-03 REMOVED the (International) requirement for Morse proficiency for use of HF frequencies (whether CW OR Phone.)
I agree, the FCC will have to consider CERT, etc, but given decisions made by many contries, agreement with CERT, etc will be difficult if the FCC continues to require MORSE proficiency for HF operation. (And the former International requirement didn't specify whether HF operation was on CW or other modes; it simply stated that HF operation required Morse competency.)

IMHO, the FCC will (and will have to) align our regulations with the majority of the other countries.

[KA3RFE]

N5SWF:

Where have you been??? There no longer is an international agreement requiring morse code testing on any band! This present argument is whether the FCC will take code testing out of the exam.

[n8zux]

While you are going in circles like a Puppy chasing its tail I have my 5 WPM and My General, I am having a blast going after stations right now, one on Grand Turk Island, another in Arizona , two in East coast ( 1 & 2 land ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif 10 Meters is a blast, yep the FCC will have to choose the decision based on comments filed. by the way I am studying for my Extra, see you on HF !

[kc0efs]

Looking at all the items up for comment. I would have to agree most with ah0a 's petition # RM-10808 where if you want to use a specific area of the bands, then one should test for it. ie. RTTY, Data, Image, spread spectrum, Pulse/test etc. etc. I for one don't use them at this time, but a test in order to use those areas
would be of great value, as with any mode of operation.
ANY mode of operation can and will get screwed up. We are only human. SO... a test for whatever mode one wants to use can and will be of great value and should be put into place.
The old rite of passage of "YOU MUST LEARN CODE" is so far out dated and full of inconsistancies.
Lets all make an effort to ELMER those that want a specific mode of operation to make them better at what they want to do.
73's all for this is going to get very nasty before it is all said and done.

[n4ews]

Well, from what I see on the horizon..... #We are going to get QRM'd one way or another ! Either by broadband data on the power grid or people that don't have the mental capacity or the fortitude and perseverence to pass a mere 5 wpm code test ! The 75 meter band is bad enough now, do we want it to sound like channel 19 on a band opening ? Do we need to dumb-down amatuer radio just for the numbers, ie: more voices more votes ! That kind of thinking has not helped us with our own government or public education has it ?

If ham radio is going to die, let it die with dignity !
Keep CW alive !
--... ...--
N4EWS

[k0ip]

to the comment above, hear hear

I can remember at least two times morse saved my butt in southeast asia. Glad I took the time to learn it. If you want the bands to go to the cb people just do away with the code. doing away with it is obsurd. If someone wants to be a true ham learn the code first http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w6th]

---------Listen Up-------

I can't understand why all these changes for the past many years. Was it to weaken ham radio, call it a hobby and cause confusion in the craft. It sure is working that way, is it not?

Or was it to do what is done now and do things behind our back while we are dis-content with each other. Sure looks that way.


Why wasn't it left the way it was with class "B" and class "A".
No complaints till "?"
I say go back the easy way, class "B" 13 wpm, the same theory tests, class "A" 13 wpm, 20 wpm Extra and a test with the same FCC examiners.

If you can't cut it, find another hobby like the Citizens Band, that seems to do ok and no jibber jabber.

OH, BY THE WAY, IF THE FCC WANTS IT THE ARRL WILL MAKE SURE THE FCC GETS IT. THEY GO HAND IN HAND.

# # # # # # # # # # # # So you hate me? Good.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Honesty is the best policy.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # -----------

[KG4WZC]

well I am a tec and it would give me HF
rights but I think it would be a los to do away with
the code it is part of being a ham raido
thats all I have to say
KG4WZC

[nx6d]

Booorring.

This is the same stuff we've been discussing for, how many years?

Who cares about CW at this point? The op's that do great CW will continue to do so regardless of the FCC. The rest of you that whine about CW, should either learn it, or wait until it goes away. I don't have a lot of patience for people that can't learn a simple "dit dah" code, especially at 5 WPM. I personally don't care if they do away with the code, I'm just sick of the whining by people that won't even TRY to learn the code. It's not that hard.

Not a CW fan, and learned it anyway...

WX7B

[DC1YB]

They should have dropped CW years ago. At last, most countries do it now. America, will you go your own way again?
There is a clear recommendation from the IARU: Drop it. And it will be dropped, sooner or later. Why wait until the sunspots reach their minimum? Is this ham spirit? And why go on with this discussion for another five or ten years?
Nobody says that CW is no longer allowed. But it's just one mode, like RTTY, SSTV, PSK31, and so on.

73, Herwig, DC1YB

[KC2KFC]

Code vs No Code; the longest living beaten horse! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ag9r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DC1YB @ Oct. 12 2003,00:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They should have dropped CW years ago. At last, most countries do it now. America, will you go your own way again?
There is a clear recommendation from the IARU: Drop it. And it will be dropped, sooner or later. Why wait until the sunspots reach their minimum? Is this ham spirit? And why go on with this discussion for another five or ten years?
Nobody says that CW is no longer allowed. But it's just one mode, like RTTY, SSTV, PSK31, and so on.

73, Herwig, DC1YB[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We ALWAYS Go Our Own Way, The Good ole USA is A Leader not a follower. the way some of you sound there will be new license classes.
1. general- All Mode
2. general - CW/RTTY
3. general - CW
4. General - SSTV/CW

etc etc
come on guys some of this crap sounds so stupid. if this was a real horse you would be in Jail for Animal Abuse!!!

#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #did I Say That ?

[kc0gqt]

1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. Look how many people pass and never use CW. Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest!

[KC8RYG]

I sick of the General & Extra thinking they are better the the no codes... They don't understand that some people can get the code and there are ones that can't becouse they may have a learning trouble.. And for telling people to go back to CB I'm not going to make my comments on that one.. People who cares if you know the code and if you don't... If you know someone that doesn't HELP THEM... I'm thinking about not going to General/Extra becouse just the way you guys make the no-codes feel like they are crap. I have seen on here and on the radio General/Extra people say you are a No-Code and I'm not talking to you untill you get your code they are doing this on 2 meters simplex. All I have to say is General/Extra be nice to no code people and help them. don't wait for the to ask you. Be a REAL Ham and ask them if they would like YOU to help them get the code down.

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0gqt @ Oct. 12 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. #Look how many people pass and never use CW. #Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. #Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC0GQT,

dont worry, they will drop the code or do something equivalent. they will ask their selfs " why keep what so many have dropped?" i am in the process of trying to learn it myself. the hardest thing to learn is the alphabet and the punctuations, after that it takes time to get your speed up to par. i truely believe that some of us cannot learn cw, while there are those of us who realy could give a ratt's butt,they passed it so every one else should pass it too. any way, keep trying,"to give up is to admit defeat". and i hate cb myself too. every now and then i will fire up the 706mkII and go down to the chickenband and get things fired up. thats funner than going to six flags with free admission.


73 KC0QME

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC2KFC @ Oct. 12 2003,04:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Code vs No Code; the longest living beaten horse! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
lets paint the horse a new picture, and beat it to death again!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K0ZZE]

well you know what they say "the needs of the many, out way the needs of the few" with that said 73'S



KC0QME http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC0OFZ]

So you are saying the many need it even easier than they already have it??

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0gqt @ Oct. 12 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. #Look how many people pass and never use CW. #Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. #Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How come NOBODY had a problem learning the code b4 they dumbed the hobby down to the no-code, license from a cracker jack box/licensed cber, tech level?
Reckon Fred W5YI is mostly to blame...the next edition of the W5YI crap to come out will be about Element 0...
"required ten-code list"!!
What's the 2 meter skip-tawk channel? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2QWE]

Morse Code is obsolete due to the latest technology. Unfortunatelly, the majority of the world is not as high tech like the USA.

So we are forced to learn Morse Code to satisfy the International rules, but I bet the majority of the Hams don't use Morse Code at all.

There are hand held devices that send and decode Morse Code for you. If ever need to communicate with someone using Morse Code, I am sure I will pop that device.

Otherwise, digital communication is my choice.

[ah6gi]

code/nocode? go to groups.yahoo.com/group/codenocode

and have at it. No moderation, just flame and troll as much as you want.

[KG4ODQ]

Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrott do I need morse code for. Thats like requiring a pilots license to drive a car. If you want to fly an airplane, thats fine ,go get you a pilots license. If you want to operate CW, thats fine, go study and pass the morse code test. But leave Tango-Foxtrott the people alone who have no interest in CW. I'm a technician and ready to take the 5 wpm test any time (which I won't if I don't have to ) but I have no interest to ever operate CW. So go ahead you dash-dot fetishists and jerk off to the annoying sound of morse code. I rather talk like normal people do. And Bravo-Tango-Whiskey, if they ever drop the bomb and all conventional communication dies I think amateur radio operators are the last ones to be asked to help to provide intercontinental communication.

Thanks, bye!!!

[w0tut]

I believe that there is a very simple
solution to the Code Vs the no-code.
i.e. for the FCC to design the new
licenses on the order of K2OKAs'
RM10806 or AH0As' RM10808.

If you want to operate on the HF radio-
telephone bands you dont have to
pass Element 1, but if you want to
operate in the CW bands, for example
on 20 m its 14000 to approx 14070
you pass the 5 wpm test (Element
one) And it should be a real test,
not fill in the blanks type.

73 de Joe w0tut

[KG4RUL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2QWE @ Oct. 12 2003,07:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... majority of the world is not as high tech like the USA.

So we are forced to learn Morse Code to satisfy the International rules, ....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I thought that the requirement for Morse Code was dropped at WRC-03!

So, what valid reason does remain???

Dennis #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Oct. 11 2003,20:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">---------Listen Up-------


OH, BY THE WAY, IF THE FCC WANTS IT THE ARRL WILL MAKE SURE THE FCC GETS IT. THEY GO HAND IN HAND.

# # # # # # # # # # # # So you hate me? Good.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Honesty is the best policy.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # -----------[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
W6TH:

No hate, and no going back to the old days... BUT:

What the FCC wants, the FCC TAKES, regardless of what the ARRL says. (Case in point: 220 HHz band) The ARRL has NO power to make the decisions; all they can do is beg and plead. And with NO Amateur Radio Licensees on the current Commission, I doubt they even look at(or care) what the ARRL files. The big business concerns seem to be all they hear.

[KC8QMU]

KC0QME,

I hope you realize that is illegal to operate your 706 on 11M. It is not type accepted for that service. Don't jepordize your license by fooling around with CB with an illegal radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[w0sxi]

Leave things the way that they are. There have been so many changes lately that no one can keep up with them! We need to pay more attention to our dwindling frequency spectrum, rather than No Morse Code!
Bill de K0SSI

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ Oct. 12 2003,13:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0QME,

# I hope you realize that is illegal to operate your 706 on 11M. #It is not type accepted for that service. #Don't jepordize your license by fooling around with CB with an illegal radio. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
oh, i realize that. but its still fun!!!! their is something i found out two weeks ago, their are a lot of hams that still talk on the 11 meter band. i dont know what they use but they sure do get them boy's all fired up down there!!!!!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KC0OFZ]

"Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrott do I need morse code for. Thats like requiring a pilots license to drive a car. If you want to fly an airplane, thats fine ,go get you a pilots license. If you want to operate CW, thats fine, go study and pass the morse code test. But leave Tango-Foxtrott the people alone who have no interest in CW. I'm a technician and ready to take the 5 wpm test any time (which I won't if I don't have to ) but I have no interest to ever operate CW. So go ahead you dash-dot fetishists and jerk off to the annoying sound of morse code. I rather talk like normal people do."

Is this an example of the "highly skilled" that is being kept out by the code? #It is amazing that this kind of attitude can not figure out why the operators refuse to talk to them.
"So go ahead you dash-dot fetishists and jerk off to the annoying sound of morse code." #This is a great example of how mature these people are!

[kb9ulk]

As far as I am concerned Morse Code should go the way of the Dinosaur. I kind of get the feeling that 90% of Amatuer Radio operators know deep down that this is what should be, but people have the attitude that "Well I had to do it so should you" I think that is called hazing. N9WQ has a very good idea and I think he is the most rational about the whole thing. For everyone else that wants to keep code I don't want to hear you complain when another band has been lost for lack of use. Having to learn morse code is like having to learn how to fly the Wright Flyer prior to being able to fly a modern plane. WHATS THE POINT? Besides, allowing Amatuer Radio operators easier access to the HF bands might spark there intereset into learning code after using HF for a while. This is 2003, technolgy has way more to offer than to worry about CW. As far as WD8OQX says about "But I'll tell you one thing, there had better be someone that can tell a dit from a dah if I'M sending an SOS." I know that in an emergency situation I am not going to choose Morse over voice, come on where are you going to send a distress call from using morse in the modern day world? An Airplane? The Space Shuttle, ISS, or A Ship, morse code didn't do much for the Titanic and yes I know SOS was new at that time.


Just my opinion,

KB9ULK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC8QMU]

You know,

As far as most people are concerned, it takes more effort to whine about the FCC not giving you a freebie over and aver again than it would to actually LEARN the code. At least then you would have something to show for your efforts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

If they do away with the code, then fine. Let's bone up the theory tests so that we have better trained operators.

Some of you no coders are sincere and make valid points, but there seems to be a great percentage of you who just don't want to make the effort to learn it. That makes the honest people look bad.

If you don't want to learn the rules of the game, don't play it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Don't gripe about the people who care enough to make the effort.

[KC0OFZ]

"Having to learn morse code is like having to learn how to fly the Wright Flyer prior to being able to fly a modern plane." #Well, now that is an interesting point. #The remake of the Wright flyer for 100th anniv. of flight is proving far harder to fly than most imagined so learning on the Wright flyer may not be a bad idea. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #Once again I will ask this question. #How easy do we make it?? #Are the current written tests too much? #

"This is 2003, technolgy has way more to offer than to worry about CW." #Maybe, SSB is also outdated, so why not take that out of the (written) testing as well?

"For everyone else that wants to keep code I don't want to hear you complain when another band has been lost for lack of use." #Well,I use 2 meters and 70 cm which is no-code, I have yet to all of the activity that is supposed to migrate to HF after the code is gone. #70 cm is another one of the bands that is also in danger so lets get more activity on that as well and techs can help.


BTW: I am also a VE and the code test is NOT a burden to give. #In fact I enjoy helping people get to where they can pass the test and telling them that they have passed by giving them the handshake that tells them good job! #If they did not pass I will help them out in any way possible to make the next time a sucess.

73 KC0OFZ

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w0sxi @ Oct. 12 2003,14:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Leave things the way that they are. There have been so many changes lately that no one can keep up with them! We need to pay more attention to our dwindling frequency spectrum, rather than No Morse Code!
Bill de K0SSI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
maybe BPL will go into effect and all the HF guys will be stuck on 6,2,220,440 with the rest of us lazy no codes.and maybe they drop the code and BPL still will go into effect? its a toss of a coin. do you want heads or tails? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[NQ4S]

Let me speak as an extra who feels the code requirement should be dropped.

2-1/2 years ago I found out about the packet station on the International Space Station. #That gave me a reason to go out and get a Tech license. #The license didn't test my knowledge of packet so I went out and learned about it on my own and managed to relay traffic through the ISS.

2 years ago I upgraded directly from a Tech to an Extra. #I took the General exam the same time as my Tech exam, so that left me with both the CW and Extra tests for the same session. #It took me three months to learn the CW, but I managed to muddle through the test and pass.

Not covered on the test was RTTY, other than from a basic theory. #I learned about it on my own, figured out how to hook my computer into the radio, and made some RTTY contacts.

The same can be said for SSTV and PSK31.

Since the technical reason for learning CW (to let the military tell us to vacate a frequency) is gone, why should this mode be tested for when so many others are not? #People will or will not operate on CW because they are interested in it, not because they had to learn it just to get licensed.

Some of the petitions out there right now are just plain silly. #They read more like political dissertations than technical proposals. #The one which bears the most weight is the NCVEC position. #Odds are we'll see something along the lines of that one go through.

The NCVEC proposal is close to what I'd like to see happen, but not quite there. #I don't think the Techs should be given HF privledge. #Keep the Tech test for VHF & UHF. #Make it concentrate on domestic legalities and operating technique. #The General exam should concentrate on international issues and HF propegation. #Extra goes into technical depth which you wouldn't find for a General exam. #

How do you get here? #Just eliminate the CW exam and use the three written exams for the three levels of license. #If you really want that last little bit of spectrum reserved for the Extra license holders, you can study hard and take the tests. #If you want to use CW, you can go out and learn it for your own benefit just like you would RTTY, PSK31, Packet, and many other modes.

As for the bands, keep them as they are for now. #Narrowband (CW & RTTY) on the low end and wideband (SSB & FM) on the high end. #The only exception might be opening up a bit of the low end of 40 for voice to give some easier overlap with regions 1 and 3.

There you go. #No flame, no war, just my own feelings on where things came from and where they will go.

73 de NQ4S -- Delbert

[ZL1TM]

kb9ulk Posted on Oct. 12 2003,13:45
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as I am concerned Morse Code should go the way of the Dinosaur. I kind of get the feeling that 90% of Amatuer Radio operators know deep down that this is what should be[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

N2QWE Posted: Oct. 12 2003,08:32

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I bet the majority of the Hams don't use Morse Code at all.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Thanks god finally I should be able to find clear frequency to call CQ during CQ WW next month (unless KC0QME will decide to have some fun and occupy it).

:-)) and see you on the bands.

73! from down-under
de ZL1TM

[ae1x]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
* The Puerto Rico Amateur Radio League (PRARL) asks the FCC to delete
Element 1 for Technician and General classes but to increase the rigor of
the written elements for those two license classes. The PRARL would keep
the 5 WPM Morse exam for Extra applicants. The PRARL also would eliminate
same-session retesting and require 30 days between retakes. The petition
is designated RM-10809.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Of all the petitions that I have reviewed to date, this is the one which makes the most sense. The only modification that I would make is to limit the General Class stations from using frequencies near the band edges. This would provide a minimal amount of incentive for Generals to upgrade to Extra. At very least all of the exclusive Extra Class allocations should be retained not just those for use of the A1 mode.

Concerning the FCC, I have to agree with the comment that the FCC might just grease their palms with BPL money and watch the BPL people drive all HF users from this part of the spectrum. This seems to be the position taken by Commissioner Abernathy. She seems to feel that the traditional method for allocating spectrum should be on a basis of how much money any potential user will derive from the use of the spectrum. I would love to hear from her concerning her view, but I think she has already let the cat of the bag concerning her views concerning traditional spectrum allocations.

Ken

AE1X:kes

[KD7QYU]

What is everybody so uptight about anyway? Let it go old timers, It's not worth the fight! Its a new world with new ham's. The code is not going to die just because the element 1 requirment goes away. And mark my words it will go away. The code does not keep the so called rif raf off the hf bands. Infact as long as we make it hard for people to get to hf the more rif raf we will be dealing with.Get rid of the requirment, give the freebanders the licence then it will be easier for us to keep track of them.
Yes I am a tech, I have passed my written general test and I am taking the element 1 exam on tuesday Oct. 14
# # # # # # # Jud Morris # #kd7qyu

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ Oct. 12 2003,16:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know,

# As far as most people are concerned, it takes more effort to whine about the FCC not giving you a freebie over and aver again than it would to actually LEARN the code. #At least then you would have something to show for your efforts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

# If they do away with the code, then fine. #Let's bone up the theory tests so that we have better trained operators.

#Some of you no coders are sincere and make valid points, but there seems to be a great percentage of you who just don't want to make the effort to learn it. # #That makes the honest people look bad.

# If you don't want to learn the rules of the game, don't play it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif # Don't gripe about the people who care enough to make the effort.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i would agree to a point. and im not going to state my opinion on the subject do to the fact i dont want to sit here for hours debating the whole ordeal. their realy doesn't need to be a debate due to the fact theirs no reason for the code to be kept, the treaty is long gone and thats one less thing the lazy polititions have to mess with. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif


KC0QME

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ZL1TM @ Oct. 12 2003,19:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kb9ulk Posted on Oct. 12 2003,13:45
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as I am concerned Morse Code should go the way of the Dinosaur. I kind of get the feeling that 90% of Amatuer Radio operators know deep down that this is what should be[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

N2QWE Posted: Oct. 12 2003,08:32

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I bet the majority of the Hams don't use Morse Code at all.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Thanks god finally I should be able to find clear frequency to call CQ during CQ WW next month (unless KC0QME will decide to have some fun and occupy it).

:-)) and see you on the bands.

73! from down-under
de ZL1TM[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
no go ahead bro, thats your baby, i wont interfere http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n4ews]

Time to put on the asbestos underware !

Why not have the FCC take the 11 meter and freeband part of the spectrum for powerline broadband data use, most of them wouldn't be able to tell the difference !!

Then the wanabe ham's could take the multiple choice test several times until they pass to get on HF ! Yes, it does happen !! CW is the only thing left that separates us from people that talk skip with there 5kw ultra phat nasty amplifier !! At least most of those extra-class hams keep there signals clean. That's because they know the theory, not by just gleening over the question pool !

Those old timers out there deserve respect, they were smart enough to be able to draw oscillator and amplifier diagrams to pass there FCC exams not to mention having to copy code on the fly, no fill in the blank or multiple choice ! So are some of you saying that people in general are more advanced due to available off the shelf technology....? Guess again ! I think we are getting soft minded from not having the drive to do it ourselves !! Remember this is a hobby for exploring and experimentation in RF! Not just talking to a buddy across town with 5 zillion watts on HF !

There ! I'm off the soapbox !

N4EWS

[w0tut]

Its amazing how many Morse code experts
out there who never bothered to learn it,
but they can tell #us its old fashioned, out of date,
boring, etc and they never lifted a finger
so to speak. #

Its like saying because I know a few words in
Spanish (ola,buenos dias, como esta ud and
"hasta la vista baby")I am now a Spanish language
expert. So therefore, "chill out" , relax and stop being
so uptight and take a year (at 30 mins a day) and
get ur speed up to 15 to 25 wpm and then come back
and tell us how much you hate CW (or love it) And I will
listen to your expert opinion.. But to me CW Morse
is the one ingredient that makes ham radio so unique and intriguing and I love it more than anything else
in this world. #(after the xyl and daughter of course and
my Collins))

73 and happy hamming #de Joe w0tut

[kb9ulk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ Oct. 12 2003,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know,

# As far as most people are concerned, it takes more effort to whine about the FCC not giving you a freebie over and aver again than it would to actually LEARN the code. #At least then you would have something to show for your efforts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

# If they do away with the code, then fine. #Let's bone up the theory tests so that we have better trained operators.

#Some of you no coders are sincere and make valid points, but there seems to be a great percentage of you who just don't want to make the effort to learn it. # #That makes the honest people look bad.

# If you don't want to learn the rules of the game, don't play it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif # Don't gripe about the people who care enough to make the effort.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
So are you saying that since we are modern day operators and not stuck in the Stone Age that we're not honest cause we don't want to waste our time on something we won't use? Where is there a freebie being givin out? There not talking about giving up the whole testing process, just get rid of or modify a part of it that they feel is no longer needed. They should set it up as another level General with and with out code and then do the same with Extra.

Just my opinion, no offense intended.

Regards,

Jeff
KB9ULK

[kcrt4719]

Who need that ol' Morse stuff anyway. Just a bunch of beeps.... The only codes I use are my good old 10-codes and 4-rogers. All that beeping doesn't go very well with my echo-box anyway.

KCRT4719- Big Sambo
West Virginia CB'ers Convention

[kb9ulk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w0tut @ Oct. 12 2003,21:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its amazing how many Morse code experts
out there who never bothered to learn it,
but they can tell #us its old fashioned, out of date,
boring, etc and they never lifted a finger
so to speak. #

Its like saying because I know a few words in
Spanish (ola,buenos dias, como esta ud and
"hasta la vista baby")I am now a Spanish language
expert. So therefore, "chill out" , relax and stop being
so uptight and take a year (at 30 mins a day) and
get ur speed up to 15 to 25 wpm and then come back
and tell us how much you hate CW (or love it) And I will
listen to your expert opinion.. But to me CW Morse
is the one ingredient that makes ham radio so unique and intriguing and I love it more than anything else
in this world. #(after the xyl and daughter of course and
my Collins))

73 and happy hamming #de Joe w0tut[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Face the facts, the U.S. Military doesn't even recognize it as a means of communications anymore. I have spent the time to learn it but lost interest in it cause I don't ever see myself using it. My friend continued to pursued it and got his General and never uses it.

[kc0gqt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (JUSTAHAM @ Oct. 11 2003,09:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0gqt @ Oct. 12 2003,04:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. #Look how many people pass and never use CW. #Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. #Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How come NOBODY had a problem learning the code b4 they dumbed the hobby down to the no-code, license from a cracker jack box/licensed cber, tech level?
Reckon Fred W5YI is mostly to blame...the next edition of the W5YI crap to come out will be about Element 0...
"required ten-code list"!!
What's the 2 meter skip-tawk channel? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My grandfather is a ham (KAØTZO), and he got me intrested in the hobby. I got the code tapes, even had a practice key but could not for the life of me get the code. Then when they came up with the no code tech license he was the one who told me to set off with that. Since then I have still tried to learn the code, but still can not pick it up. I would love to upgrade, I got a taste of 40m and 80m on field day 2002 & 2003. That was fun!!!!

[kd5sdi]

I like the idea of the code. It is cool in alot of ways. There was an american pow in vietnam who blinked out the letters in the word torture while he was on tv. Only a select group caught that. That is cool. I do not know the code well enough to pass the test. I froze up the first time. and missed a word the second time then I missed some more characters trying to put it together. Maybe I'll do better next time. I like the idea of building a forty dollar kit and goofing around with it. I like the idea of spending three hundred on the elecraft k-1. The reality is I will learn it without someone making me, and the cw portion will be less crowded when the code eventually falls so don't worry about it.

[k4tfc]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I see progress about to take place if we look back there was a time AM'ers, looked down their noses at SSB, with out change there is no progress, U.S.Military and U.S.Commerical opreators are DIGITAL NO CW! YES incress the requirments for General and Amateur Extra, to include more digital and satilite communications. Ham Radio will not become like C.B., the people that are bringing Ham Radio down are allready licensed on the air I had an encounter 10-5-03 with a station call out the "N" word on 7.248mhz you can hear this guy all the time. Oh by the way I was tested for CW 4 times at 13 and 5. With No Code we will have a younger crew. We are Ambassidors of the USA each time we make a DX contact so we need to go forward as the rest of the world. Rick K4TFC 73s rickk4tfc@earthlink.net

[w8qf]

And once again the code bashers are out in force again without thinking ahead.These day's it realy is not so much an issue of knowing the code,but rather,we are the largest population of hams in any single country in the world.With aprox.650,000 hams in the US,about 40% with HF privllages and the bands are fairly crowded now at times.If you remove the code requirement the HF population would increase to proably 75-80% of the population.Using that analogy we would all need to use PSK to avoid QRMing each other.I would like to ask the no code supporters how they would propose to resolve this issue.I rarely work CW these day's thanks to Mr.Arthritis,but still enjoy listening to a QSO from time to time.Many of the member countries of the ITU have opted to eliminate the code requirement,and that is fine for them,they have much smaller population of operators.On the other hand if the decide to leagalise rape and incest in those countries are you going to want it here as well?Bad analogy,I am sure many here would like to see that.This country was founded by hard working people will to put their lives on the line for the people here and comming here to be able to prosper and be free.No we have evolved into a socity of arogent laze people wanting everything just given to us,and were willing to stand up and demand we should not have to earn anything or look to the future.We look to our goverment to do everything for us and trust that they will do it in our best intrest.If you honestly belive they will,your a fool,your hobby is at risk here.If you alow them to flood the bands with operators they know very bad behavior will evolve quickly,and then be able to justify to the uninformed population that we are a rotten bunch.You can trust your goverment will never tell the uninformed about the people whose lives were save by this hobby,or the deployed service men and women we provided phone patches to their stateside families,they will never tell them about the services rendered durring disasters.None of this will be possible if we over crowed the HF bands.Helping our communities is a big reason why many join the ranks of the hobby these days.Do you have a brain in your head?So do they,and their using their'es,looking to the future.They will give the no-code supporters what they want when the time is right.Their just waiting for the fighting to fester to the boiling point,then they will turn you lose to fight and when it get's bad with all the fighting and bickering they will disband Amature Radio Service so they can reap the financial winfall of money from BPL.So try pulling your heads out of your self serving,laze rears and smell the coffee.Dave, AE8U

[n7uo]

I continue to be amazed by the content of many of the posts appearing every time the "C" word is addressed in these forums.

Amateur Radio has been in transition for many years and will continue to be "tweeked" well beyond all of our years. #With our passions expressed, we're the fiber of content in this hobby that will continue to shape its future. #When we agree to disagree, and we no longer feel enough passion to express our consternation or concent, then the hobby is gone forever.

We've seen similar arguments expressed in the quality of our children's educations, the "dumbing down of America," and other similar issues. #Our "sensitivities" to the "diversity" in the population of our country has become the driving force that propells the dumbing down process. #Diminishing the viability of CW as an elemental fiber of this hobby is simply a perpetuation of the dumbing down process. The issues isn't: #"How good are you at CW" nor is it "Does CW really work" or is it a used or "dead" modality of operation, it's really one of: "I can or I tried and just caaaaaaaaan't." #

I suspect that the passions that are expressed are really those of persons who've tried (maybe for 30 minutes and didn't enjoy absolute mastery) #or a very minimal number of us who for what ever reason really couldn't master CW. #This minimum is about 1,000th percent of those currently licensed who want CW removed so that they can be reborn with that silver spoon in their mouth again. #They were born with life too easy, have managed to whine their way through school, and undergraduate school, and straight into grandpa's business with a suit and tie job. #Now they want their hobby to be amenable to the same non-challenging, unlacking in inconvenience, and "I want it all, and I want it now" mentality.

Now, I must admit that my grammar isn't perfect, but I can get an idea across. I am amazed at the spelling and grammar that many of those opposed to CW employ. If they approached their academic endeavors the same way they've approached the CW issue, then I rest my case.

CW isn't dead folks, just listen to the CW contests anywhere, and you'll hear 12 year old operators, and 92 year old operators abounding. #You WONT hear the whiners though, because they're "10-4 goodbuddying" on their 2meter rigs complaining about those of us who could, did, are, and will continue to do CW. You don't want to learn CW, great, just stay up on 10 meter sideband where you can continue to use your intercom effectively and don't clutter up my part of the band with your whines.#

Frank/N7UO

[ag9r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 12 2003,07:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0gqt @ Oct. 12 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. #Look how many people pass and never use CW. #Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. #Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC0GQT,
# #
# # # # #dont worry, they will drop the code or do something equivalent. they will ask their selfs " why keep what so many have dropped?" i am in the process of trying to learn it myself. the hardest thing to learn is the alphabet and the punctuations, after that it takes time to get your speed up to par. i truely believe that some of us cannot learn cw, while there are those of us who realy could give a ratt's butt,they passed it so every one else should pass it too. any way, keep trying,"to give up is to admit defeat". and i hate cb myself too. every now and then i will fire up the 706mkII and go down to the chickenband and get things fired up. thats funner than going to six flags with free admission.


# # # # # # # # # 73 KC0QME[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your a Perfect Example of what we are talking about.
if you do that on 11 Meters you will most likely be a Lid and do it on HF as well.

[KG6RYF]

I like things the way they are. I'm almost ready for the code test, and I'm greatful for what I have. I'm fine with the 5WPM speed. The written tests are fine. Put the work in and don't ruin it for the rest of us that want to work for it.

[ag9r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6RYF @ Oct. 13 2003,09:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I like things the way they are. #I'm almost ready for the code test, and I'm greatful for what I have. #I'm fine with the 5WPM speed. #The written tests are fine. #Put the work in and don't ruin it for the rest of us that want to work for it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hope you get it man, Lots of fun on HF, even if you dont use CW after your upgrade, you will find it rewarding because you know you worked hard for it. GOOD LUCK

De N0SCC
http://www.n0scc.net

[n7uo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6RYF @ Oct. 13 2003,09:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I like things the way they are. #I'm almost ready for the code test, and I'm greatful for what I have. #I'm fine with the 5WPM speed. #The written tests are fine. #Put the work in and don't ruin it for the rest of us that want to work for it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A great post! you said it better in fewer words than the rest of us!

Frank/N7UO

[n0ov]

Now I know there are three things not to talk about unless you are willing to get into a fight

Taxes
Religion
Whether or not to eliminate "Code"
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n0ov]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n4ews @ Oct. 11 2003,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Time to put on the asbestos underware !

Why not have the FCC take the 11 meter and freeband part of the spectrum for powerline broadband data use, most of them wouldn't be able to tell the difference !![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now there's an idea that has promise!
(Except if they do it once...............)

73

[KD7YMR]

Why not make it simple?
#Keep all levels the same, but add one level, a "+" level to each class for coders.

#Have performance requirements for them, 5 WPM for the Tech, 10 WPM for General, and 15 WPM for Extra. #Once you establish that, then leave the bottom 10% of each band clear for the coders and open up the rest to everybody allowed in their respectful class.

#With a system like this, both sides win and it’s all good. #There will always be need for code, . . Always. #But learning Code should never be a requirement or barrier for advancement in today’s availability of new technology. #There are too many avenues of opportunity open for the Amateur Operator to be forced into an aspect which one may never have the need or desire to ever use; such would be the case of RTTY, Packet, or Slow-scan Video. #However on the other hand, Code would be paramount if one was pursuing Moon Bounce operations. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

#All in all, Code should always be an OPTION and definitely recognized. #Code is a good thing. #So is Coffee, but not everybody drinks coffee ether.

#Rob
KD7YMR

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kg4llq]

Dear Fellow Amateur Radio Operators,
Please, please look at what's happening to us! We're spending so much useless energy debating the Code or No-Code issue that we're missing the very real threat to Amateur Radio: BPL
If we don't work together to defeat the BPL proposal, the Code or No-Code issue will be mute. You see, if BPL is successful in getting FCC approval and is implemented by our power companies, then HF will be a medium impossible for us to communicate in. Therefore, whether we know Morse Code or not, it won't matter!
Please write your congressmen and senators and FCC commissioners and talk to anyone who'll listen and forcefully express the fact that the BPL proposal must be defeated and sent to the dung heap of legislative proposals.
We are the last line of defense in times of natural and/or man-made disasters. Our NATURAL RESOURCES (i.e. our frequencies) must be preserved against the special interests surrounding us.
Defeat BPL, then when that's done, we can talk about whether we should or shouldn't be tested for our knowledge of Morse Code!

Sincerely,
KEN POWELL

[KB7IFZ]

I have been licensed since 1989, when I had to do the novice theory and 5wpm before I could consider moving up to technician. I sat in on a code test one night for practice and passed. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Since that night I have never listened to code again. #I enjoy my privileges as a Tech Plus as it is now called. I have never found a reason in 14 years of Ham Radio to use code for the part of the hobby I enjoy.

I would have to say with out question that code is only needed for those who have a desire to use it.My point here is that anyone can pass a 5wpm code test. If you are drawn to the part of amature radio that utilizes code then you must learn it. What is so great about this hobby is there is something in it for everyone. Why should we have to test for a part of the hobby we are never going to use? I do not subscribe to the idea of I did it, so you have to theory.

In 1992 I fell down a ravine while hiking alone in the sierras during the snow covered winter season. It was late afternoon a couple hours before dark. My Kenwood TH215 saved my life by allowing me to direct rescue workers to my location before dark and single digit temperatures. Not only did I not use code; Shivering in the cold unable to move from the Ice and snow I was laying in would have prevented me from using it. While every emergency is differnt. Code is not the most efficiant for every emergency communication.

My position on this argument has always been we should not test people on things they are never going to use. Their will always people that want to use code. Fine they can test, use and have access to that part of the spectrum. Their will always be people like myself who have no desire to use code and choose to only use part of the privilages that I tested for. Code test shoud be set aside for those that want to learn it.

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0SCC @ Oct. 13 2003,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 12 2003,07:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0gqt @ Oct. 12 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Yes I am a no code tech
2. I HATE CB, and don't ever freakin call me a CB'er
3. I have tried to learn code but I really can't pick it up
4. The FCC isin't getting rid of the CW bands, just testing for the mode CW
5. Amateur radio is about learning, yes but its also about choices. #Look how many people pass and never use CW. #Here these people learned something but choose to use diffrent modes to oparate on. #Whats the point of learning if you never use it?
6. Don't be suprised if they up and drop CW.

Sorry had to get that off my chest![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC0GQT,
# #
# # # # #dont worry, they will drop the code or do something equivalent. they will ask their selfs " why keep what so many have dropped?" i am in the process of trying to learn it myself. the hardest thing to learn is the alphabet and the punctuations, after that it takes time to get your speed up to par. i truely believe that some of us cannot learn cw, while there are those of us who realy could give a ratt's butt,they passed it so every one else should pass it too. any way, keep trying,"to give up is to admit defeat". and i hate cb myself too. every now and then i will fire up the 706mkII and go down to the chickenband and get things fired up. thats funner than going to six flags with free admission.


# # # # # # # # # 73 KC0QME[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Your a Perfect Example of what we are talking about.
if you do that on 11 Meters you will most likely be a Lid and do it on HF as well.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
ya sure, just pick me to death out of all that crap.how would you like me to pick you to death? and bye the way, im not a lid and i do like to have fun making the 10-4 crowd fired up. are you a lid for asuming that i was a lid? probably. and no i am not a perfect example of what you are talking about. go bother some one else!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KH2D]

Morse Code is obsolete due to the latest technology.

If that's true, then sexual intercourse is obsolete due to #the latest technology, artificial insemination.

After reading this discussion, one thing is very obvious. It's a damn good thing nobody ever talked the FCC into requiring spelling, grammar, and punctuation tests for a ham license.

And for those of you who forgot to read the rules, there ARE no "CW BANDS", nor have there ever been any "CW BANDS".

Thanks, Fred, for again starting a #"discussion" in a public forum where licensed hams can collectively display their ignorance.

73, Jim KH2D

[KH2D]

You see, if BPL is successful in getting FCC approval and is implemented by our power companies, then HF will be a medium impossible for us to communicate in.

Not necessarily. With a good receiver, a 400hz CW filter, and a functional noise blanker, some hams won't even know that BPL exists......

But you are correct in assuming that this discussion does pose a threat to amateur radio. Think about, for a few moments, the fact that none of the FCC commissioners are licensed hams, and ask yourself what kind of a picture of amateur radio this discussion would paint for them should they all decide to sit down and read it.

Morse code testing will soon be history. If you are a "NoCoder", rejoice. Go get your extra license, your vanity call, and have at. Get used to the fact that there are brain dead old hams who will hate you until the day they are gone from the planet.

If you are a "Coder" learn from the fact that you were defeated by people with more determination than you had (and who could spell and construct sentences much better than you could). Get used to the fact that there are clueless newbies who will never embrace the things that you did. The commonality is gone. It won't be coming back anytime soon.

Amateur radio is no longer a brotherhood - it is forever divided, and we'd all be much better off if we would just pretend the people on the other side of the division don't exist any more and ignore them.

The War is over, children. Nobody won. We all lost. To keep up the battle will only increase the possibility that we all lose more.

73, Jim KH2D

[kg4kww]

Morse Code(CW) is out of date and should be removed as a requirement for Tech Access to HF 10 meters and to General and Extra Class Phone bands. People don't need Code(CW), because, they have Digital Packet, Satellite, EME, ECHO LINK and IRLP, which will all allow folks to communicate for long distances, just like HF. Code is going to destory the hobby because, many folks will not want to be ham because of it. Make the written tests harder, if there is concern that the wrong caliber of people will get on the bands and cause problems.
I hope the FCC does the right thing and gets rid of CW. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KG6RYF]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KH2D @ Oct. 13 2003,12:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[i]Amateur radio is no longer a brotherhood - it is forever divided, and we'd all be much better off if we would just pretend the people on the other side of the division don't exist any more and ignore them.

The War is over, children. Nobody won. We all lost. To keep up the battle will only increase the possibility that we all lose more.

73, Jim KH2D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree with Jim. #I'm studying code because I don't want to make waves and enemies. #The amount and severity of backlash by the older hams on the issue of code can really kill the fun out of ham radio for many people. #That's not cool. #A Brotherhood doesn't need to exclude people based on a musical form of communication. #I think they should remove the code and KEEP THE WRITTEN THE SAME for all classes. #There's a ton of questions that cover all the necessary theory. #Why make it harder to get new blood in the hobby when people already associate Ham Radio with outdated technology. #

We know how much better radios are than cell phones, but most people don't. #There's a lot of kids out there who want to be engineers, mechanics, and programmers. #They can greatly increase their understanding of their chosen fields through radio. #Not all are gifted musicians. #We should make it easier to get new members, especially when you see how many silent keys there are each month. #My friend (KG6LSE) is a very skilled electrician, but he's already given up on the code. #He's giving me his tapes. #It's sad, because he'd rule HF. #Those who think that when you drop the code, that it will invite all the trouble makers. #That's not true. #It will promote the hobby, and make Ham radio more respected as a modern technology evolving hobby. #Radios will get cheaper, and more people will have antennas, and it will make it easier over time for people to put up antennas in restricted areas. #

Drop the code, and everyone will get smarter. #No more Elitism. #It will increase the number of operators and make our communities safer (and more exciting with more local hams to make friends with), and there will be more contributions to the advancement of technology. #

Remember we're here to communicate. #Make it easier to communicate and ideas can be exchanged easier. #Look at what the internet did. #Now think about these ideas moving wirelessly amongst many more new people, and people will get things done easier. #The people that cause trouble won't feel like wasting their time on a written test.

I want people to feel welcome to ham radio. Code is fun but it is not for everybody. Ham radio and ALL of it's virtues like HF should be within cognitive reach of everybody. CW is a skill that should be reserved for those that want to use it. Self regulate! Just make the CWers criticise the new CWers and leave the rest of the phoners alone.

[NQ4S]

After reading through eight pages of posts one thing became very obvious. #Most people make no effort to read or understand other's posts. #About the only posts likely to draw a reaction are those which take an exteme viewpoint at one end of the issue or the other. #Those who try to speak as a moderate are just lost in the noise. #

These debates sort of show the dynamic of politics in our society in general. #The ends scream and the middle tries to get the work done.

Fortunately for all of us, Internet discussion groups don't make a difference to the decision makers. #At least they keep the zealots occupied.

[W5HTW]

The thing most proven by these CW-no CW posts is the terrible state of the education system in our nation. There are people here who readily admit they can't put together sentences or that their grammar is not good. For Christ's sake, WHY NOT? Did they skip school? Did the teachers skip school? Is English a foreign language? Some of them actually seem proud of their lack of communication skills. How do they possibly perform in their jobs, if they have to use the spoken or written word?

Leaving out the technical jargon, a lot of this stuff is written at fourth grade level or less. In fact, even with the so-called technical phrasing, most 4th graders of a few decades ago would be bored to tears with this level of incompetence. And the majority of people posting here are out of school.

I, too, note that the anti-code folks at the least proficient in constructing sentences and using the correct words (their instead of there, for a possessive pronoun, for example) but I admit that some of it - a far smaller percentage - comes from the pro-code folks, too.

What is frightening is this is not just one post out of every eight or ten. It's about every other post, and often two or three in a row that are posted here by people who can't spell or communicate. A few of them on some of these forums are actually incoherent, and one can't figure out what the message is supposed to be.

I wonder if there is a correlation between not being able to read or write fluently in one's native language, and not having any desire to achieve in one's hobby, since it seems obvious there was no desire to achieve in one's education. This is not a taunt; this is real curiosity. Is it that the ones too lazy to learn code were also too lazy to pay attention in class? Or is it that the ones 'unable' to learn code were also 'unable' to learn English grammar? Is it even that those who failed in school were boosted anyway to the next grade, just as often those who fail at the VEC still get a iicense, thanks to "friends" and/or money? Is it an inborn trait to not want challenges and to achieve? Is barely mediocre the byword of today's society? Is it a result of very early childhood trauma?

Or did our education system teach that there is only one way and that is the "short-cut/easy" way - to just get by? It is very sadly true that a good many teachers in today's schools can't spell or construct sentences. Is this part of the problem with the failures of those who 'tried' to learn code and 'can't?' They were taught by those who can't teach, something that is also happening in our hobby of ham radio.

Really, I'm not picking on anyone here, but just about everyone posting here is at the least a high school graduate. Yet it looks like many of them didn't make it to 5th grade. I wonder if this is a symptom or a result.

Whichever, it certainly seems to be the new society - AND the "new ham radio."

Ed

[n4ews]

Da'aamn, Ed !

You go boy !!

N4EWS

[kg4zuf]

Remember back in school when you had to take the test to get to the next level. What did you do you took it right. So just take it and get over it, it aint rocket science.


--... ...--
KG4ZUF
.. .-.. --- ...- . -.-. --- -.. . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kg4zuf]

By the time all of yall get done whining you could have passed 5-WPM and studying your General http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

--... ...--
kg4zuf

[N8CPA]

W5HTW,

AMEN! #They'd rather do anything than learn Morse. #Ooops! #I mean the poor learning disabled and, thus, disenfranchised guys jus "caaaaan't" learn the code so they keep talking about dropping Element 1 and making the written tests harder. #So let's give it to them!

Let's petition to eliminate Element 1 and to keep the written exams as they are. But eliminate multiple guess. We'll make the answers fill in the blank, and misspellings will be considered wrong answers. #Maybe W5YI would have to add spelling primers to his memorization manuals. #Among its other criteria, isn't Amateur Radio supposed to be about learning? #Or would spelling primers also be too much of a burden? #Yea, I thought that was a crock, too.

!!

[n7uo]

W5HTW & N8CPA!

Thank God! #I thought I was alone in my perceptions! #As pointed out by several in this thread, those who complain missed the boat. #If they put as much energy in learning the CW and "getting it out of their way" and less making excuses, they would have moved on to better amateur issues such as BPL.

The flavor of our childrens academic endeavors are reflected profoundly among those who've posted here. Obviously, they made similar excuses concerning composition and grammar.

Frank/N7UO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KC8TCQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n7uo @ Oct. 13 2003,20:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">W5HTW & N8CPA!

Thank God! #I thought I was alone in my perceptions! #As pointed out by several in this thread, those who complain missed the boat. #If they put as much energy in learning the CW and "getting it out of their way" and less making excuses, they would have moved on to better amateur issues such as BPL.

The flavor of our childrens academic endeavors are reflected profoundly among those who've posted here. #Obviously, they made similar excuses concerning composition and grammar.

Frank/N7UO http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You know, it kind of reminds me of some of the characters I have had to put up with at work, you know the kind, the ones that work twice as hard at getting out of work as they do working. Whereas if they just got down to it and did the work it would be done faster and with much less effort and energy expended.

I can see both sides of the coin, but in my case I am planning on learning CW anyways, I have always had an interest in amateur radio, and lately have gotten bitten by the QRP bug. I passed the general written, and am working on passing the code. I have a hearing problem, tinitus and tone deaf at the same time, but I'm not going to let that stop me, I'll lear it no matter how long it takes, and no matter what I have to do, even if I have to hook up a light that flashes instead of sending sound.


73 de Keith

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8TCQ @ Oct. 13 2003,18:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can see both sides of the coin, but in my case I am planning on learning CW anyways, I have always had an interest in amateur radio, and lately have gotten bitten by the QRP bug. I passed the general written, and am working on passing the code. I have a hearing problem, tinitus and tone deaf at the same time, but I'm not going to let that stop me, I'll lear it no matter how long it takes, and no matter what I have to do, even if I have to hook up a light that flashes instead of sending sound.


73 de Keith[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You may not would be prepared to believe this, but some hams have indeed hooked up a light to their receivers, making code a visible art. After all, the Navy and CG have been doing that for decades, ship to ship, so why shouldn't we hams? Especially those afflicted with genuine hearing problems?

My hearing was damaged in the military, when I played "macho man" and refused to wear ear plugs around the firing range, or when flying on C-130s. I already had a ham license, though, so that did not impede me. Later it made it really difficult when I became a CW operator for the US Government and had to copy 25 groups per minute. It took real work to get there, while I watched the ex-Navy ops in my class zoom to the top. With the cans on, and the volume higher than any other student in the class, I pounded it on the mill and I survived Morse school, which began at 15 WPM and went to 25.

Many years later I was to learn than an as-yet not invented disease was also a problem for me - ADD. Or is it AHDD? I can't stay focused long enough to remember which. Like watching five TV channels at once. But my JOB was Morse, and in order to do it, I had to do it well. That helped me in my later quest for the Extra at 20 WPM, which even with my government experience, was not a total cakewalk, by any means.

It is said challenges make us stronger. The woman who loses a breast to cancer learns strength from that. The man who loses his wife, gains strength.

You are attempting to meet a challenge, and I have absolutely zero doubt that you will succeed. It takes "wanting to," which is the major thing missing in much of these forums. Many thousands of hams went before us all, and all of them passed a code test, even though many of them didn't want to, and never used code after passing. It was a matter of spotting a goal, and then meeting whatever challenge it took to get there, whether or not you liked it.

We asked ourselves, "Why do we have to learn American or World history" back in the 8th grade. "I"m not going to be a historian, or a teacher." I wish I had paid more attention, for our nation's history is not as clear in my mind as I feel it should be. "Why do we need civics, or social studies?" Well, one good reason is in one good word: voting. How can we know what's going on, when we don't know what's going on? Well, I'm afraid a lot of us don't care.

Keep after it, amigo. When you learn it, you will swell with pride, for it is one more thing, one more of the most valuable things in the universe -- knowledge -- that can't be taken from you.

73
Ed

[n2ea]

Having been licensed since 1969, and held an extra and first phone since 1970; my code speed is in the vicinity of 65 wpm. (ears aren't quite what they where, when)

Eliminate the code requirement altogether. It adds no value. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy CW...I do. It means that I do not believe that cw ability denotes anything meaningful.

Not only can I copy 50 wpm easily, I also race sailboats around buoys. Neither has great merit; both are historical artifacts. Let's get over it, and get on with real life!

N2EA

[W6NVQ]

CW is a major part of ham radio....Thefrequency of use is not the issue...It's the ability to use it if needed.....Either learn CW or try gardening.....Your RIGHT to be a "ham" is NOT guaranteed!


W6NVQ

[N3TTN]

Well, code or no code?? hmmm...an emotional issue to be sure. At some point the FCC will render a decision whether we like it or not. Some will herald the decision, and some will decry it, such is life. Change is inevitable, get used to it. You can accept change, and adapt to it, or be dragged into the future, kicking and screaming. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Morse code proficiency as a licensing requirement for U.S. hams will probably eventually come to an end, but radio amateurs the world over will continue to use Morse code for the forseeable future. A brave new world for sure, no matter which side of the issue you are on. On a related note, correct me if I am wrong, but outside of hams, and tiny number of military operators, I believe the biggest group of commercial/government operators who still use morse code very much are maritime mobile operators, not small craft mind you, but the big ships.

[KH2D]

After reading through eight pages of posts one thing became very obvious. #Most people make no effort to read or understand other's posts. #About the only posts likely to draw a reaction are those which take an exteme viewpoint at one end of the issue or the other. #Those who try to speak as a moderate are just lost in the noise.

Welcome to the wonderful world of keyboard dueling. People don't flock to the Ikonbored discussion forums at QRZ.com because they are looking for technical information, or ham radio news, or information regarding operating events. They are here to argue......

It's much easier to call somebody a clueless newbie or a brain dead old fart than it is to read something that makes sense and compose a response to it.

Subjects which are not controversial don't draw much attention here. More attention = more page views = more advertisers. Nothing draws attention like those two little words, "Morse" and "code". Get it ?

Fortunately for all of us, Internet discussion groups don't make a difference to the decision makers.

Fortunately for all of us the decision makers don't read what goes on here, or ham radio might have been canceled a long time ago. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73, Jim KH2D

[KH2D]

I believe the biggest group of commercial/government operators who still use morse code very much are maritime mobile operators, not small craft mind you, but the big ships.

The big ships with flags from your country aren't even required to have radio operators any more, much less use Morse code......

If you tune around HF, you will indeed still find a lot of ship to shore stuff being done with Morse code, but not in the U.S. When I was in Guam it was easy to find shore stations in Asia CQ'ing with traffic for ships. But NRV in Guam, the U.S. Coast Guard's station, tossed the Morse code stuff in the trash a few years back.

73, Jim KH2D

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ Oct. 12 2003,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"># As far as most people are concerned, it takes more effort to whine about the FCC not giving you a freebie over and aver again than it would to actually LEARN the code. #At least then you would have something to show for your efforts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You admit this takes no effort. Took me a month of intense study to learn the code. No way I could do that now that I have a job.

Posting on here is as easy as clicking a mouse.

[kc2lws]

Hello All,
I am a no-code tech who is very, very, knowledgeable in 2 way communications. I have been in and studying electronics and 2 way communication for over 30 years.
As far as the general and even the extra exam's are concerned, I can and will pass them on Nov. 2nd(nent test session) but I have been practiceing and studying morse code forever and can not seem to grasp it to save my life. I have been to ear specialists and have had hearing test upon hearing test and my hearing and ability to grasp code is there but I can't for some strange reason??? There are alot of others out there like myself i'm sure, being held back persay, that are quality operators because something as simple as 5 wpm of code..I feel eliminateing the element 1 is actually in alot of good operators intrests.
Just my opinion http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kn6z]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc2lws @ Oct. 14 2003,00:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been to ear specialists and have had hearing test upon hearing test and my hearing and ability to grasp code is there but I can't for some strange reason???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you able to discriminate between code characters, e.g., can you hear the difference between dit dit dit and dit dit dit dit? Or are you unable to recall fast enough the letter corresponding to the code character?

[k4eez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9wq @ Oct. 11 2003,08:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well it seems to me that the easy way to deal with this silly nonsense is to give all partys what they want?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Yepp it can be done as easy as your mom would settle any dispute. lets see what my mom would of told me to do in this
situation.................[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's what I kinda siad a longgggggg time back
keep it simple:

You want to work code , take the code & writen Gen test.

You want to work H.F phone & phone only, take the writen Gen test.

You want them all, the take em all
It's #Up #2 #U.

That's how it should be, End of Story!
Now Can We All Just Get Along
# #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif P L E A S E !!!!!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ag9r]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kn6z @ Oct. 14 2003,02http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc2lws @ Oct. 14 2003,00:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have been to ear specialists and have had hearing test upon hearing test and my hearing and ability to grasp code is there but I can't for some strange reason???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you able to discriminate between code characters, e.g., can you hear the difference between dit dit dit and dit dit dit dit? #Or are you unable to recall fast enough the letter corresponding to the code character?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've had 23 Ear surgeries since my 1st birthday. when i was 18 had a mastoidectomy on each ear. to this date I have 43% loss one ear and 62% in the other, with severe scarring on the ear drums. I passed the code after 2 years, but I did it because I pushed myself and disciplined myself to learn it. they were willing at Springfeild, IL to give me a sending test if I took the code and did not pass it ( provided I show Medical and Hearing test) I failed the first time by 1 letter and #I took it again and passed. when I was a kid I was also Hyperactive or as they would call it now ADD. Ive earned the respect of my elmer and others in the amateur community because they knew I had a way out and chose to work at the code. "The Code is only as hard as you make it.......and thats what this is all about Respect, dedication and discipline.

as a short note I went to school and I was Required to take Biology, History etc, I never use it. But I still got the education failing to take those classes would have kept me in the same grade for years ( Sound Familiar ) . Spelling is the only thing i had wished I paid attention to ....

P.S The couple of you that had E-Mailed me, E-Mailing me a private message still Does NOT get you any compassion or sympathy and get deleted if you cant say it in the open forum dont even bother with it
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I used to think the no-code advocates (not the code haters) were just being lazy but I believe now it's not simply laziness - it's a general disinterest in ham radio as a whole. To copy CW well you really have to be enthusiastic about ham radio.

These days with so many distractions it's hard to focus on amateur radio as it was before computers, video games, internet, etc. #So it's to be expected that the typical ham not have the enthusiam and drive to pursue the hobby to its fullest. #It's a lot easier to just grab the microphone for a quick high and then play the Nintendo for another quick high and then move on to something else.


There is a dark side in amateur radio: the code haters. #

When you come down to it, the guys who really, really hate CW are the people who are jealous that they have so much money invested in their gear but it still doesn't make them copy CW any faster, or at all. #Society has nurtured a new mindset of thinking that encourages the shiftless mobs to bring others down to their level of unhappiness.

The end result is the demand to eliminate CW as a means to qualify a person's abilities - and this is bad because we really SHOULD try to weed out the undesirables and discriminate against those who show little or no interest in what running a radio station really means.

[KG4CGC]

Morse Code: The series of dots and dashes that peopled used to communicate BEFORE, the invention of the telephone.
My two cents, enough said.
73 de KG4CGC, Charles in em84

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4CGC @ Oct. 14 2003,12:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Morse Code: The series of dots and dashes that peopled used to communicate BEFORE, the invention of the telephone.
# # # # # # # # # #My two cents, enough said.
# 73 de KG4CGC, Charles in em84[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BPL: A spread-spectrum emission type that will go virtually unnoticed by CW haters.

[KB2KAB]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif # # # # THIS IS ANOTHER ONE FOR THE TEXT BOOKS. I UNDERSTAND HOW EVERYONE IS UPSET ABOUT THIS. BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, THE F.C.C. IS GOING TO DROP THE CODE TEST. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE GIVING A TEST, THAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS DELETED. IT IS NOT THE WAY TO GO, BUT IT WILL GO, JUST AS QUICK, AS THE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE DROPPED IT. SORRY TO SEE IT GO! # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB2KAB @ Oct. 14 2003,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif # # # # THIS IS ANOTHER ONE FOR THE TEXT BOOKS. I UNDERSTAND HOW EVERYONE IS UPSET ABOUT THIS. BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, THE F.C.C. IS GOING TO DROP THE CODE TEST. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE GIVING A TEST, THAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS DELETED. IT IS NOT THE WAY TO GO, BUT IT WILL GO, JUST AS QUICK, AS THE OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE DROPPED IT. SORRY TO SEE IT GO! # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i agree ,i just dont understand what everyone is argueing about? they all know that it will be droped,but they want to argue it to death till its gone. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[kg3q]

i would like to commend wz8n nancy kott, for her timley and well thought out proposal.for the future of our hobby.
her thoughts for keeping the code requiremts,and a knowledge of theory that does not require a degree in electronics is not too much to ask.i dont hear anyone these days saying how proud they were when they received their license,i wonder why? can you imagine if nancy kott,s proposal would be adapted by the f.c.c. and we the u.s.a. would be the only country in the world to keep our status as is .our founding fathers would be proud of us all. 73/88. lou deAngelo

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KH2D @ Oct. 13 2003,12:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Morse Code is obsolete due to the latest technology.

If that's true, then sexual intercourse is obsolete due to #the latest technology, artificial insemination.

After reading this discussion, one thing is very obvious. It's a damn good thing nobody ever talked the FCC into requiring spelling, grammar, and punctuation tests for a ham license.

And for those of you who forgot to read the rules, there ARE no "CW BANDS", nor have there ever been any "CW BANDS".

Thanks, Fred, for again starting a #"discussion" in a public forum where licensed hams can collectively display their ignorance.

73, Jim KH2D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That may be technically true, BUTmost people STILL prefer to engage in... CW?

But you are bringing up semantics. Yes, it is technically correct to say "CW only" portions of the various bands. And although it is technically incorrect, I believe most people know what is meant by "CW subbands." But agreed, it's especially poor wording when included in a petition to the FCC. And more than one group made that mistake.

[kn6z]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 14 2003,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i just dont understand what everyone is argueing about? they all know that it will be droped,but they want to argue it to death till its gone. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We have to make hay now, because once the code test is gone, if it goes, it's gone. Still, even if the code requirement is dropped, we can still argue the same sorts of things: The hobby is ruined/no it isn't, it's not a hobby/yes it is, all the undesirables are here because the code test is gone/no that's not true, the new licensees are not "true hams"/yes they are, etc. Really, the future is bright.

[KD7QYU]

Well I passed the element one test tonight and i am now a general. if I did it anyone can do it. But i still say its a new ham world with a new breed of hams. why require a code test? when you have all these computer programs and different types of eqiptment out there that can send and translate code for you. The code requirment is being killed by technology. The code its self is not going anywhere. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kg4ysr]

I think the FCC has analysis paralysis. It's obvious that they intend to drop the code so why patronize the public, the world has mandated it as it is. They will certainly follow the international lead in time so why the delays??? DROP THE CODE!!!

Otherwise, the good ole USA HAMS will be the only one's transmitting below 30mhz that are code qualified.

[ky5u]

There is no MANDATE to do anything. You can stomp your little feet up and down all you want, but it won't make it so.

I favor no code access to HF for Tech plus while keeping testing for General and Extra. What I am not in favor of is any proposal that does not have compromise.

[w0tut]

I agree with KG4OHH, keep it simple with
a RADIOTELEPHONE license (minus Element 1)
to operate on the present PHONE bands and a RADIOTELEGRAPH ENDORSEMENT which
requires a Element 1 a 5 wpm Morse test.And
allows one to operate on the present CW bands
What to do about RTTY and other computer
DIGITAL would have to be worked out later.
(and an actual receiving test,not a phoney fill
in the the blanks test!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif This should make
almost everyone happy!!

73 #de Joe w0tut

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Well I might as well add my comments, seems everyone else has. #So far i have not seen anything new to this topic. We have beat it to death. First of all the FCC could care less about Amateur Radio. We are at the bottom of their list. Everyone has an opinion, here is mine. Just eliminate element 1 and move everything else down. Keep element 2,3,4 as they are now. Boy thats gonna open up a can of worms. #Let me close by saying i have been a ham since 1986 and i am a 20 WPM Extra.
#Just listen, it`s coming. no CW requirement.

[kc8yhu]

I don't care what the FCC does as long as they retain the CW frequencies. I am a tech studing for the General and yes I will learn Morse Code even if they drop it since it is a valuable skill in my opinion. (There my first and only comment on the subject)

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kn6z @ Oct. 15 2003,02:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 14 2003,18:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i just dont understand what everyone is argueing about? they all know that it will be droped,but they want to argue it to death till its gone. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We have to make hay now, because once the code test is gone, if it goes, it's gone. #Still, even if the code requirement is dropped, we can still argue the same sorts of things: The hobby is ruined/no it isn't, it's not a hobby/yes it is, all the undesirables are here because the code test is gone/no that's not true, the new licensees are not "true hams"/yes they are, etc. #Really, the future is bright.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i get it!!!!we hams just love to argue, about anything and everything. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[jimeee]

If one likes the code so much and wants to be an extra let's make it a challenge for them. #They should roll all current extras back to General until they pass a "real" challenging code test.

This is what I would like to see it end up being.

1.FCC cut the number of license classes to two--General and Amateur Extra.
2.Generals--No code test required with privileges to operate on all currently available amateur phone bands. #With the passing of a 5WPM code test the privilege to operate on all bands the except the Extra-class CW subbands.
2.Extra applicants to pass a 45 WPM code test with the privilege to operate on all currently available amateur bands..



...haha... #I am only kidding about rolling the extras back until they pass the challenging 45WPM code test. #However I do think the code test for extras should be 15 or 20WPM though, keeping it somewhat exclusive.