View Full Version : A NEW DEBATE
Since the code/no code debate seems to be whirling around without generating anything new or controversial, I thought THIS topic would be a good one to beat up and flail around upon..
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PLEASE KEEP YOUR TONGUE FIRMLY PRESSED AGAINST THE INNER WALL OF YOUR CHEEK AS YOU READ AND REPLY....
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***PL-259 SOLDER ACCESS HOLES - MUST THEY BE FILLED WITH SOLDER??***
The question is based upon the sometimes hotly debated question of whether or not soldering to the coax shield through those holes provided for in the PL-259 should be done or should it be ignored.
Some arguments FOR it being done..
It makes a good connection!
It ensures a solid ground!
It is THERE, so we SHOULD DO IT!
Folks did it in the past and we should continue to do it today!
My ELMER soldered them, so I should too!
It filters out those who can't/won't/don't want to solder!
It's a requirement for a solid job!
OTHER technical services do it, so we should too!
Some arguments AGAINST it being done...
Just because YOU had to, doesn't mean I have to!
I've never seen the need for it, so why bother?
I don't WANT to solder!
I am incapable/unable to solder!
WHY BOTHER!? I buy all my cables preassembled!
Soldering those holes NEVER proved anyone could solder!
I hate soldering!
Other services are now CRIMPING, so we should CRIMP TOO!
So.. what do YOU think?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
**NOTE***
BEFORE you answer... please read the 3rd paragraph and subsitute 'code' or 'no-code' for the place where the words
"soldering to the coax shield through those holes provided for in the PL-259" are written!
KI4BOO
10-10-2003, 05:25 PM
Soldering ensures a better connection. It's easy to understand.
However, for usually much less, you can purchase preassembled cable kits, with professionally installed connectors to ensure the best connection and resistance from breaking. Soldering your own cables is no longer a necessisary skill. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Or you can just not be lazy, and solder them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Or you can learn the difference between an obsolete skill, and one that isnt necessisary per se, but is good to know. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
n6idf
10-10-2003, 05:29 PM
I have always soldered them in the past. It provides a better connection, and also adds strength to the assembly.
Nowadays, I just crimp all my cables together. RF Parts sells some very nice crimp on connectors in all flavors.
Glen or I am going to mention this old trick, so let's see who gets his post written first.
Take the tip of a Weller soldering gun, (preferably a burned out one ! ) and after cutting off the normal "point", sharpen the two stubs so that they can fit into the adjacent holes on the plug. This will allow the metal of the plug itself to become part of the resistive path, and you will be surprised at how quickly and easily the plug heats up enough to allow plenty of solder to flow into the space between the outer shell and the inner spacer. Of course, if you are soldering RG-8, the solder will be flowing directly to the shield!
Do not get the insulator so hot that it starts foaming and bubbling, because this will certainly compromise or ruin the soldering job!
DON'T BUY RADIO SHACK COAX ! ROTTEN, NO GOOD STUFF!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
73 from Jim AG3Y
I DON'T BELIEVE IN CRIMPING!
SOLDERING IS THE WAY TO GO!
Therefore.. I am going to form a NEW group!!
NO CRIMP, INTERNATIONAL (NCI)
It will be devoted to showing how crimping is NOT a good way to go, and I believe I may petition the FCC to OUTLAW crimping as a means of securing coaxial connectors!
After all, crimping requires skill and it will discriminate against those who cannot use their hands, cannot exert enough force to do the job, OR who just find crimping TOO MUCH of a hurdle to getting a GOOD coax connector job done!
If you don't like that one.. then we'll form another one.. HOw about Folks Into Soldering Things Securly!" (FISTS) and they will help support soldering as the prerferred means of doing coaxial connectors.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
(REMEMBER! Keep that tongue firmly placed against the inner wall of your cheek before you reply!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Dog-gone it FFFFTTTTT ! Hows come every time YOU make a post to this here board, MY WebBrowser comes to a grinding halt ? ? ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
You'all got some kind of VIRUS in that there machine of you'rn ? huh Huh HUH ?
If'n I can come up with some sorta smarta$$ acronyms to match you'rn, I'ma fixin to put them on here, but it's gonna be purty hard to do that, ifn I don't gits some more BANDWIDTH into this here BBS ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
That cheeky enough fer ya ? OM ?
73 from Jim AG3Y
N8CPA
10-10-2003, 06:17 PM
This rule is unfair. #It discriminates against people with limited dexterity and something needs to be done to strike it down.
Why should have to learn how to solder? #I'll never use it. #I'll buy all my gear!
It's all surface mount now anyway. I can't afford those big ovens they use for parts placement and reflow. #I can't afford the carousel for edge connectors. And even Motorola offers a no-solder barrel connector-splicer that makes Pl-258 & 259s obsolete. #End to end pins abut the center conductors unterminated co-ax. #The shields are made contiguous by teflon piercing screws.
To put a stop to this burdensome soldering requirement, I'm putting together NSI. #Anyone who wants to join can send me $12.95 and I'll send you a membership card with your own NSI number. #And for an additional $20.00, I'll send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Now You're Screwing With Us!" #So make out a check for $32.95, or silver and nickles equal to that amount. #Join today!
!! # #
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ei5ja
10-10-2003, 06:25 PM
Crimping? Forget it. Tools too expensive. Drop solder into all ports.
A better question still. How does one recover PL259s from contaminated cable for reuse??
73 and take your time
Ed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K6UEY
10-10-2003, 06:28 PM
I enjoyed reading the subject until I got to a couple of statements that brought the hair on the back of my to a stand. Not sure which one was first as the red film over my eyes partially blocked my vision. but !! Due to my experience I have initiated a procedure in my shop, When I come upon a crimped RF connector, I pause at what I'm doing and pick up the diagonal cutters and severe the connector from the cable, this pause in time has over the years saved me many hours of trying to find where the intermittent problem was originating.
The second comment, which I now realize was meant as a witticism or jest #as it would be impossible to have even the smallest microcosm of seriousness connected to it, but I will comment also in the same jocular manner." Soldering your own cables is no longer a necessary skill" "Or you can learn the difference between an obsolete skill,and one that isn't necessary per se'".
At the same time you can hire some one to assemble and install your station, then when it is all up and running they can work the stations for you and maybe file a weekly report detailing all the experience they have gained for you .After all, that time wasted learning obsolete skills could be put to use on the Internet, the modern day mans answer to the height of lazyness.
I am very glad it was a jest because that kind of attitude really PI$$E$ me off.........73, # ORV
# # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
n6idf
10-10-2003, 06:32 PM
Tools are not that expensive... I do still solder the center pin after crimping.
NSI NCI NBI http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
AG3Y.. I'm sorry.. I'm sorry! Please.. please don't be mad!
I'm just trying to come up with another horse for everyone to beat up on until all that remains is the faint memory of the sounds of the 'whinnying' made by the dying animal! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
No Solder International! EXCELLENT!
And ONLY $12.95!! SUCH A DEAL!
I will have to cut the dues for NCI and FISTS to 3.95 plus shipping and handling plus a free set of GINZU knives!
Best of the Columbus Day weekend to y'all!
Ay'll be BAHHHK!
73
k3FT
Tongue now removed from inner wall of right cheek!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K0RGR
10-10-2003, 08:38 PM
Well, I'm a heretic. I rarely solder the shield on coax connectors. The aluminum foil shield on the low loss cable I use doesn't solder at all, anyway.
My club's repeater had a problem recently. They paid the local Motorola reps $300+ dollars for three "very special" coax cables made by Andrew, highly recommended by the Motorola shop for any repeater application . These cables had 'N' connectors on one end and PL-259's on the other, with mini-hardline in between.
After these cables were installed, we experienced horrible desense problems on the repeater RX. I whipped up a very simple RF sniffer with a signal diode and a VOM. With this device, I was able to detect RF leakage from the repeater transmitter at both ends of these extremely expensive commercial cables.
I went home and built two cables with Belden 9913. We installed these in place of two of the commercial ones, and the desense disappeared! There was no detectable leaking with these cables. We swapped the cables back and forth, and eventually, one of my home-brew cables leaked a bit. But, the leak was on the 'N' end of the cable - reinstalling the 'N' correctly cured that problem.
The commercial ones leaked from both ends until the local repair shop resoldered them.
Due to the aluminum jacket on the 9913, neither of my cables had the shield soldered at the PL-259 end.
I've had more trouble with the ones I've soldered than those I didn't. The only ones I solder are those that are going up on the roof or the tower because they are just too hard to get at if I am suspicious. But, I have never really experienced any problem with the shield making a good connection. You must, however, get the connector screwed on very tight over the outer jacket. It is possible to twist off a PL-259 whose shield is not soldered, so soldering is probably a good idea on any cable that will experience lots of flexing.
Yes, I know this is heresy and the radio gods will get me !
WB2WIK
10-10-2003, 08:57 PM
I liked this when it started out as a joke, but since it turned more serious (unfortunately):
9913's shield of course can and should be soldered. If you assembled a PL-259 onto 9913 and have the aluminum/mylar film shield exposed through the four holes, you definitely have trimmed the cable and installed the PL incorrectly.
9913, LMR400 or any of the double-shielded, low-loss amateur cables have an aluminum/mylar foil shield (primary shield) and a tinned copper braid (secondary shield), and both should be left intact when trimming the cable for connector installation. In fact, the main reason these cables even have a secondary shield (braid) is for connector attachment. There is zero problem soldering to the braid shield of 9913. Been doing it since 1982, when the cable was first introduced -- and per the Belden Innovations Technical Applications Note detailing how to install connectors on 9913.
WB2WIK/6
N8CPA
10-10-2003, 09:02 PM
The RF gods are about to demand your execution but you may yet be saved. #You must partake of the Brass Sacrament, on the Feast of All Souls. #Make 10 SS QSO's
on November 1 and you may be spared. #One for Oested, 1 for Faraday, 1 for Henry, 1 for Ohm, 1 for Volta, 1 for Watt, 1 for Thevenin, 1 for Kirchoff, 1 for Wheatstone, and 1 for Marconi. #You will find salvation in their Continuous Wave. # #
We, the Priests of the RF religion, implore you to recant your heresy! #Escape the wages of your infractions!
!!
# # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ke4pjw
10-10-2003, 09:23 PM
This is kind of funny. When I was an installer at a 2-way shop, I installed almost 1000 mobile radios. Almost all of the installs used Antenex brand crimp connectors. I never had an install come back because a crimp connection went bad. It was only when I started interacting with hams did crimp connectors become taboo.
PS: Radio Shack crimp connectors are just awful. Don't use them.
I KNOW ! Teacher, I KNOW ! PL-259 stands for 259KBPS over the Coax Connector ! As Maxwel Smart used to say, " It's the old Broadband Over PL-259 conspiracy" , and I just never understood it until now! No wonder those things have always been so hard to work with !
And if your equipment was not powerful enough to work well with the 259KBPS you could always throttle it down with one of those inserts. Than you had RG-58 and RG-59 cable which gave you about 1/4 or so the Broadband , but was a LOT easier to work with. I guess that was especially designed for the "no-code techs", years and years before there was even such a thing as "no-code techs" !
Oh, I'm just getting warmed up, now. I shall return with more of my current conspiracy, ( if they don't come and take me away, first) !
73 from Jim AG3Y ( you're just jealous because the "voices" are not talking to YOU ! ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ai4ep
10-10-2003, 09:41 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I like soldering....I like soldering sooo much that I usually burn my self at least ONCE to refresh my self with the pain & agony of the burn...especially if I am wearing bermuda shorts and burn my leg, just above the knee, so I can rub and scratch the scab off it for a few days...the FUN part is dropping HOT solder on the top part of your foot ( aint another feeling like that ). http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I always solder the shield, and the center conductor , I used to leave too much shield hanging out the end of the pl-259 connector and would have problems getting the cover part of the pl-259 to screw on the threads, but not no more ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I got an old pair of scissors to CUT those fine wires, and sure it dulls the scissors up, but when I get them too dull, I take them back to the kitchen and get another pair of sharp scissors. Many years ago I heard of a fellow that would TEST his soldering connections, especially on 3 foot jumpers by touching each end of the 3 foot jumper to the terminals of a 12 - volt battery he had nearby to power his radios. He got fairly used to being FAST at doing it and it was always a great connection. Well, one day he was a bit slow at it, and be blew up the battery ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ..Right in his face, but he wore thick glasses ( I was told ) was all right. I am thinking it might have been a DIEHARD battery, but I dont know for sure. Any back to the main topic, I am IN FAVOR of soldering all the places on a pl-259 you can, the tip & ( if possible) all 4 holes in the sides...FISTS can count on my vote of confidence, but they can NOT have my support ( no way ). Does solder & glue ( from a beaten dead horse ) have anything in common ?
ai4ep
10-10-2003, 09:48 PM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif which brings to mind COLUMBUS DAY...why have a holiday for some one that it has been proven did NOT do with what they "say" he did ? ...also hello to all those folks in Columbus, Georgia, Columbus Mississippi, Columbus, Ohio and all the other great towns named after this man who is celebrated with doing what has been PROVEN that he did NOT really do. ....and .... has any one noticed that ..since so many folks now have CAM CORDERS, that there are far FEWER ufo sightings than before ? ...and with the planet MARS still soo close by ? if we were more technically advanced, now would be a good time to take a manned mission to MARS while they are so close by, but we can not do that ( too bad http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ). * full moon outside *......howwwllll kd4amg
ke4pjw
10-10-2003, 10:01 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Oct. 09 2003,15:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I like soldering....I like soldering sooo much that I usually burn my self at least ONCE to refresh my self with the pain & agony of the burn...especially if I am wearing bermuda shorts and burn my leg, just above the knee, so I can rub and scratch the scab off it for a few days...the FUN part is dropping HOT solder on the top part of your foot ( aint another feeling like that ). http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Boundaries, dude, boundaries. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
WB2WIK
10-10-2003, 10:02 PM
Crimping coaxial connectors works just great, provided you use the right tools, and the right connectors!
I think the reason crimp coax connectors never caught on that well with hams is most of us are too cheap to buy the right tools.
Type "F" TV connectors are commonly used into the lower microwave region with RG6, and the only ones available are "crimp" type. Properly installed, they never fail.
Besides, who doesn't like the smell of molten flux-core solder? Can't get enough of it. And back when men were men (and sheep were nervous), we used LEAD in our solder, and pulled it from the spool with our teeth.
WB2WIK/6
Man, what a smooth segue' that was, " which brings to mind "COLOMBUS DAY " ? ? ? Exactly HOW does that bring to mind "COLOMBUS DAY " Oh well, what can you expect from a General License Holder ?
( just kidding http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
73 from Jim AG3Y
KB1JCY
10-10-2003, 10:11 PM
I solder my own PL-259 connectors and I do fill all the solder holes, dammit. I make my own antennas. Don't call me a lazy slob! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I was dabbling in HT repair until I damaged my IC-2GAT. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
W5HTW
10-10-2003, 11:23 PM
Element 1G of the new test will be how many PL259s you can solder in one hour. You must solder five (5 CPH - Connectors Per Hour)(they can be disassembled and ready for soldering) and they must test correctly. If you are going for an Extra class ticket, you will have to solder all the holes around the connector. If, though, you are going for a General ticket, you need solder only every other hole, and Technicians need solder only the center pin. All connectors must be tested after soldering. You can get extra points toward a passing score by burning your hand, but only one burn per test session, per testee.
If you accidentally (or intentionally) leave off the shield during the soldering, you will suffer ten demerits. However, if you then burn yourself twice, that will be considered a makeup, and you will recover the ten demerits, and still have the one burn to go for extra points. You may not burn the tester, your spouse, the kids or the dog, as a substitute for your own burns.
If you want to use the connectors in the Extra subbands, you will have to solder at a rate of 7 CPH, but you will be allowed two burns instead of just one.
73
Ed
w5alt
10-10-2003, 11:31 PM
The ITU doesn't even mention the soldering requirement any more, so this is just a topic to stir up the newbies against the old farts. (Gawwd, what is that smell?)
I can solder at about 30 connections per hour and I think everyone else should, too. With a couple hours practice each day, anyone should be able to get up to 5 connections per hour. But that's nothing, the real old timers could do it in the snow with the solder flowing uphill on both sides of the connector. I think it's a talent that is being lost and should be preserved. I don't think that special consideration should be given to handicapped persons; it just shows that they aren't dedicated enough and want a hand-out.
On the other hand, I have an open mind. It really isn't necessary anymore. The internet is the future and they don't use solder connections. I heard of a guy who worked DXCC on Echolink without a soldered connector, but is having a hard time getting the last few QSLs to prove it. The Logbook of the World will probably solve that problem for him, though.
But let's put this into perspective. The ARRL conducted a poll dated August 1, 2003 asking which connector was the least favorite to install. See http://www.arrl.org/survey.php3?pollnr=197
Now, even though this might seem to be an unscientifically conducted survey, there is absolutely no information whatsoever in the DX Cluster spot database to contradict the results. Significantly, it appears that hams detest the 8-pin microphone connector over the PL-259 connector by almost 2:1.
In light of this information, I'm forced to change my opinion and recommend that hams should not be required to solder 8-pin microphone plugs, but soldering PL-259 connectors is OK.
I'm sure that some avid PL-259 solderers will be happy to accept this analysis, and the anti-8-pin crowd will be overjoyed. Probably a significant percentage will try to read too much into the statistics. As in other areas of ham radio, this is likely to be an emotional issue with some hams.
Either way, I think the Amateur Radio Service is still a hobby and it will survive the trauma of whatever decision is made in this regard.
73,
w8amd
10-11-2003, 12:18 AM
Can't they make stick-on connectors? All that soldering and crimping is soooo old school.
I shall, from the foggy recessess of the ancient past.. explain HOW they came up with the PL and the 259!
It is simple.
Back in the early days, when our forefathers (of Radio) were designing connectors, they wanted a connector that would be useful to not only TEST the skills of those aspiring to rise up in the ranks of RADIO BUT would be an tangible example of the skill of the one who passed the test!
They had this connector.. but had no nomenclature to ID it. So, they thought.. "WHAT SHALL WE CALL IT?"
They had a contest... they had many entrants. In fact.. they had 300 entrants show up to offer a name for the connector.
Turns out that the 259th person won the contest.
The winner was 'PL-259'... 259 for the 259th person to supply a name. #The 'PL'http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif simple!
Every time someone would TRY to properly assemble this connector, they would screw up. Their attitude would worsen and they would EVENTUALLY be reduced to much cursing and uttering of words and phrases MOSTASSUREDLY NOT in keeping with the Part 97 rules!
So the PL stands for 'PROFANE LANGUAGE' as that is what comes forth when one solders the holes, solders the center connector and THEN checks the cable for shorts and/or continuity and finds that the connector is SHORTED!
The UG adapter? UGly. naturally!
And now.. you know..........THE REST....... of the STORY!
(It's a.... TRUE.... VALUE!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
GOOD DAY!!!
K3FT
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
That one is hard to top, but you did not explain BNC. (Other than Ben Nighthorse Campbel).
Here is how I make a coax connection to RG-8. After preparing the inner conductor, just smoothly fold the braid back over the vinyl jacket, then screw the connector on. It is VERY TIGHT, may need pliers etc to old the parts. But it works. Then use a razor knife to cut the excess strands. You may want to cover the sharp strand ends with a wrap of tape.
Oh yes, and don't forget to leave the shell on the table when you make the connection.
TOM K8ERV
w5alt
10-11-2003, 03:03 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8ERV @ Oct. 10 2003,2200)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... It is VERY TIGHT, may need pliers etc to old the parts. But it works. ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>I just wait around and the parts get old by themselves, Tom.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yes, and don't forget to leave the shell on the table when you make the connection.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>I agree with you there .... unfortunately ....
73,
KI4BOO
10-11-2003, 03:38 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Oct. 10 2003,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The second comment, which I now realize was meant as a witticism or jest #as it would be impossible to have even the smallest microcosm of seriousness connected to it, but I will comment also in the same jocular manner.
"Soldering your own cables is no longer a necessary skill"
"Or you can learn the difference between an obsolete skill,and one that isn't necessary per se'".[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was mocking the availability of commercial cables with connectors pre-installed. with the first statement.
The second one, I was mocking the Code/No-Code debate.
Also, It is important to know how to solder a PL-259 connector. You never know when you may be stranded in the wilderness without a premade cable, having only a spare PL-259, a length of coax, and a good hot fire.
(Once again mocking the Code/No-Code debate)
Always in Jest, man. Good times, Good times. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KD7WHQ
10-11-2003, 03:41 AM
Heheheh...
And I think we can all surmise how the F connector was named, lol
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ei5ja @ Oct. 10 2003,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A better question still. How does one recover PL259s from contaminated cable for reuse??[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Over a gas stove, of course!
Cortland
Solder? Yeah, I used to like to solder. In fact, sometimes, I would sit there with a 40 watt pencil and a roll of solder, and just melt it for hooooouuuurrrrs on end... ssssnnnffff... aaaaahhhh... just BREEEEEAAATHING in that solder smoke. Mmmmmmmm.... You can make a big ol' SOLDER ROCK that way, you know. I might still have the one I made in 1972. I'll look around my mother's house for it -- It might still be there.
I don't bother to solder any more. I just get out my tube of Tester's glue, prepare the coax and... sssssssnnnnnnnfffff!... aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh Hey thisx stfuff is a lott bEtter thanm soldrer... okey dokney... first we gonnna slip thxe collllar oooooover th coox... whoops... misssedx it.... slippthecollre ovver thE coxa... damn, hol' stillxz.... mmmfff! there.... didded it! aPPly JUUUUUUUUUST a droppof TessTeTers GluueE to to the tip of th copax... SSSSSSSNNNNNNNNFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.... aaaaaahhhhhhhh! thne you slliP the collrar over the friggin' coax... oh itss alrEasdy thEthere.... SSSSSSNNNNFFFF SSSNNNFFFFF... aaaaahhhhhhhoooooooooaaaahhhhhh! I donnt brother to SLoLder anxy morg! I jus gEt outr mylittleoldtubebe of tEstrtresters gllu.............................................. ........................................
................................
NO CARRIER
ai4ep
10-11-2003, 04:48 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif hey i am gonna go to wallymart and git me some of that glue and try it fer my self... b r b http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
w8amd
10-11-2003, 05:12 AM
Liquid steel is just the ticket! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
If I wait around for the parts to get old, there are some other parts that get old too! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
TOM K8ERV
kg4bvd
10-11-2003, 11:13 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">DON'T BUY RADIO SHACK COAX ! ROTTEN, NO GOOD STUFF!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Amen! Radio Shack has gone down hill really bad over the last 10 years or so. I remember in my youth I could go in and ask for specific parts for a project and the salesman would point right to it. Now all they seem to want to do is sell you a dish, cellphone, or computer. And the slogan they use, "You got questions, we got answers" HAHA, they don't have a clue, I went in and asked for PL-259 to BNC adapter, the guy goes over to the computer accessories and and says, "We don't carry those", I told him they did, and I showed him the spot they should be on the shelf (they were out of them on the rack, but had plenty in the back). But even with the part number in his hand, it took 25 minutes for him to find one!
Well, I am off my box now, I need sleep.
73,
Walter http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
The 'F' connector.. Yes, the colorful term used to describe the interactions between men and women IS the most widely known word attached to the 'F' connector..
Then there is the RCA 'phono jack'.. 'RCA - Really Cheap Accessory!' (Although to be fair.. AMAZING how they work in spite of the fact that they are totally friction-fit dependent for connection integrity!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Serious side... just for a little bit of education.
BNC - Bayonet 'N' Connector.
TNC - Threaded 'N' Connector
N-connector -'N'avy connector. ( I beleive that the Navy gets credit for the N connector but I've not been able to source it all the way back.. but far back enough to convince me tis probably true)
The man who invented the PL259 is the same guy who wrote instruction manuals that say 'ASSEMBLY IS EASY! INSERT 'TAB A into SLOT B'......
he is also the same guy who determined the mystical method of refolding road maps so they return to the same shape/configuration as when you first bought them.
He is the man who figured out that it would be GREAT to sell rolls in packages of EIGHT while selling hot dogs in packages of TEN!
He is the man who .........
(SY!!! Pass the glue please!!! I'm getting an ice-cream headache!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K3FT
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
I had always heard that a BNC connector could fasten to both a "B" and a "C" connector, although in truth, I must say, although I have seen LOTS of BNC connectors in my day, I have yet to see a "B" or a "C" connector ! Where did I go wrong ? ? ?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Keeping with the tongue in cheek discussion.
BTW Steve, NO ONE will be able to top you, ever ! What a HOOT !
73 from Jim AG3Y
Actually BNC is the initials of the guys who invented it. I have a short article if anyone wants it.
Do you know that the innerds of the BNC and N are the same?
Tom K8ERV
K6UEY
10-11-2003, 06:57 PM
BNC I always thought was for Baby N connector,they are the same configuration except for the bayonet, in fact a N cable will mate to a BNC connector so you have to watch them pretty close when they are mixed on the bench.
Dustin,
I always thought if you were in the woods and your pl259 connector came off, the correct procedure is to pick up the cell phone and order a new one delivered.....73, # ORV
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
KC7ATO
10-11-2003, 07:03 PM
Note to all those "addicted" to soldering. Due to the hazardous and toxic fumes that are emitted during the process of soldering (lead oxide and lead sulfate) the EPA plans to restrict all usage of solder and ban the public sale. In the future it will be classified as a "Hazardous Material" and only available to licensed repair facilities that fully comply with all EPA regulations. Remember how they took away our Freon 12 guys? Stock up now before it's to late. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I've heard all of the stories about how the BNC and TNC came to be called that. The most plausible stories I've heard are that "BNC" stands for "Bayonet Nut Connector" (because it uses a bayonet-type lock), and TNC = "Threaded Nut Connector".
Where am I? Who are all YOU guys? Why are my nostrils stuck together?
Hey, Steve, the VOICES really DO talk to you, don't they?
I'm getting jealouser and jealouser !
73 from Jim AG3Y ( can I take this tongue out of my cheek, yet, it is getting REALLY PAINFUL ! )
Oh, and BTW, I sling solder all day long for a living, and nothing has bothered me. I am Ferpectly Pine ! ! !
ke4pjw
10-12-2003, 11:13 PM
Paul Neill and Carl Concelman created many of the connectors we use.
N connector - Neill connector
HN connector - High Voltage Neill connector
C connector - Concelman connector
SC connector - Screw Concelman connector
BNC connector - Bayonet Neill Concelman connector
TNC connector - Threaded Neill Concelman connector
KD7WHQ
10-13-2003, 12:15 AM
ATO does have a point, but look at what it would take to be rid of lead.
Solder, conductive tape used on windows, wheel weights, bullets, etc, etc.
I don't think it's going to happen soon.
Between soldering, casting, and handloading, I'm sure I'm getting my RDA of Pb..
No third eye yet http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
w5alt
10-13-2003, 12:23 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ Oct. 12 2003,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Paul Neill and Carl Concelman created many of the connectors we use.
SC connector - Screw Concelman connector[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did they get along? I wonder if Neill gave it that name?
w5zzq
10-13-2003, 05:20 PM
I still solder the center pin also. I believe that soldering thru those holes is a waste of time. Doesn't really do anything......
kb9wgx
10-14-2003, 05:52 AM
Some times I don't solder, but usually I do. You can't really treat a pl-259 like a F connector. You still have to solder the center pin, and you might as well solder the rest while the irons hot.
Josh
kb9wgx
10-14-2003, 05:56 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5alt @ Oct. 12 2003,11:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ke4pjw @ Oct. 12 2003,19:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Paul Neill and Carl Concelman created many of the connectors we use.
SC connector - Screw Concelman connector[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did they get along? I wonder if Neill gave it that name?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I just about blew milk out my nose! Ha! Ha! Ha! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
That REALLY is an odd coincidence.
Josh
That reminds me..... Remember Heathkits? I knew a kid who got an HR-10B receiver kit and tried to assemble it without soldering any of the connections.
It didn't work.
In fact, I don't know if he EVER got it to work.
He must have seen that whole "soldering" thing as a useless chore.
I also knew a guy who had what I'd call really BAD soldering technique. He's heat up the iron, melt the solder on the tip, then try to "paint" the solder onto the connection.
(For those of you asking "what's wrong with that?" - you are supposed to make the connection physically solid, then heat the "joint," or connection to be soldered, then introduce the solder to the joint, causing it to melt evenly onto the joint.)
Good day to YOU, sir.
To paraphrase the line from 'Apocalypse Now!'.
"I love the smell of heated rosin in the morning!"
Just so you don't think that it's only non-professional solderers that do 'really really interesting things'.. let me relate to you what I observed in my job a few years ago. The following is hte 'worst of the worst' and does not #reflect the excellent work done by all the rest.. but it is my favorite 'So You Think You've Seen It All' story.
<NOTE.. this person I mention is NO LONGER soldering.>
My current employment requires that I be certified in all the soldering disciplines. This is so I can inspect, and accept, soldered assemblies for the DoD, NASA, and other customers.
One of their basic tenets is 'THOU SHALT HAVE THINE SOLDERING IRON CLEAN, THY JOINT PREPARED PROERLY, AND THY TECHNIQUE PROPERLY FOLLOWED!"
Having inspected all maner of such things for over 20 years.. I have seen soldering operations that range from the type that SY mentioned to the type that would make NASA proud. In the category of 'The Type SY Observed' I relate the following..
I was observing some operators, as part of the requirement that we audit manufacturers to assure their operators can do the job properly, and I saw the following... (Note this was an operator that had been through ALL the soldering schools for DoD, NASA, etc.)
Operator KNOWS I'm there and is fine with it. Operator commented 'I'm certified. It's OK. Just watch. I'll be fine!"
----- #Operator puts assembly (Printed Circuit Board -PCB - and terminals with point to point wiring) in front of them. Operator puts on ESD ground strap (A MANDATORY requirement) Operator arranges tools at their station. (ALL GOOD so far.. I mention it becuase it goes downhill from here) # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #PCB is already stuffed with parts. properly crimped and all is OK.
----- Operator picks up iron - which is connected to a temperature-controlled station that has NO user adjustable controls other than the ON/OFF switch. (There IS a temperature adjust control but it is covered by a QA sticker and as long as it's unbroken, its good to go)
----- Operator gets squeeze bottle of flux. Operator proceeds to squeeze flux out until it covers the PCB entirely. EVERY square inch of the board has a nice thin coating of flux all over it. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
----- I ask the guy 'Excuse me, why do you coat the board with flux? Aren't you supposed to flux one connex at a time?' My tone is 'Are you kidding me? Are you SURE you want to do that?' hoping that he'll pick up on it and STOP. Uh UH. He doesn't stop! At this point, I am behind the guy, he can't see my expression. My mouth has just dropped open and I'm waiting to see what he'll do next. I've already decided he's gonna get rejected so the next parts I relate are JUST for show)
----- He replies, with a serious tone to his voice so I know he's serious, 'I do it that way so that I can solder them all at one time and not miss getting flux on all the connections. It's faster, better, and it makes nicer joints!"
<Yes, It's 'logical' but it fails to take into account that you don't want flux running all over the board and getting all over parts. It's a bitch to clean off some areas AND since it is slightly activated it CAN corrode - over time - connex and parts>
----- #Guy takes a brush and makes sure a nice, thin, film of flux coats the board. #THEN he takes his soldering iron in his right hand, his solder int he left hand an dproceeds to do the following.
<without ONCE cleaning the iron tip OR wiping it off> He proceeds to..
----- BULK solder the connex. He starts at one end, solders the connex, moves to the next and solders it, then onto the next. #Spends 1/2 hour doing NOTHING but soldering. #Not one move to clean the iron, not one move to wipe the tip. Just solder..solder..solder.
(Were it not for the fume extractor system there would have been a CLOUD of rosin fumes around this guy)
----- When he is done.. then he wipes off the iron. #He THEN (and this makes me laugh) takes his squeeze bottle of alcohol and a brush. He sprays alcohol all over the board while scrubbing furiously. He uses 6 ounces of alcohol to clean this board. #The stench is enough to make you lightheaded.
----- When he is done, he holds the PCB up, blows air on it to further evaporate the PCB and then looks it over. THEN he turns to me and says 'YOU WISH TO INSPECT THIS?"
I put on my strap and pick it up. Actually, to his credit, the joints look pretty darn good. BUT... there are small rings of flux around connectors and a whitish cloud on the backside of the PCB. #Needless to say, I put the board in an ESD bag and take it over to his supervisor and explain what I saw.
The supervisor takes one look at the board, looks at me and simply says 'Write up?' #I nod 'yes' and walk away. #Next thing I see is the operator and the supervisor headed for the supervisors office for a 'chat'. #Next day, operator is gone. I ask supervisor and am told that 'Management decided that he would be perfect for the receiving area to count and sort parts'.
So it is NOT just the casual assembler that is bunged up.
That is the horriblest of the horrible.
(for SY.. no, I'm NOT gonna tell you what program or cell it was. Suffice it to say. it was EAST building.)
73
Chuck K3FT
N8CPA
10-14-2003, 08:08 PM
K3FT,
One word and you pick the numbers: ISO.
When I worked in assembly, there were even specs for how many degrees of slant constituted a tombstone. Not to mention the shape of flukes and fillets. The guy was lucky to continue working. I saw people fired for much less. If he used that much alcohol, maybe he'd already damaged his brain with the fumes.
!!
I always solder my UHF connectors, unless of course I am using crimp on at the time... I prefer a micro torch, a fine point high temp flame. When I do not have the torch, I have an old Weller "welder" 150watt solder GUN. I wedge the UHF connector tip between the solder guns solder tip arms so I get maximum heat.
I guess that after nearly 30 years of putting connectors on coax, it is second nature, and I would not recommend the torch thing to someone that has not tried it...
Oh, I also have this torch that plugs into a 30 pound LP bottle, but it heats the entire connector, tip, shell, and the first foot of coax, all at the same time... this takes extreme care to use.
Maybe this is why I have been using more SMA and BNC's then UHF these days.
oh yea, one other thing...
I used to teach electronics at a trade school... I used to give the instructor in the next classroom fits...
Seems that he would grade students on "solder technique" and one of the rules was "never touch the end that gets hot"... well, his students had me first, and I would clean the tip of the solder pencil with my thumb or pants leg (need to wear jeans, not a good idea when wearing double knits!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.
I used to drive him nuts, especially when one of his students would say "well, Bob does it this way"....
I still clean the tip with my thumb....
So what? I lick my Bar-B-Que grill clean.
Steve,
All this time I thought that was a beard.
73, Marty WB2RJR
You thought that, huh? Well, next time, I'll turn off the flame before I initiate the cleaning process....
Yah, and that discoloration above his teeth comes from Chocolate Milk. Steve just LLLOOOOVVVEESS his Chocolate Milk ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
This thread is getting MUCH too serious ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
73 from Jim AG3Y http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
OOOOH OOOOH OOOOH #I just gotta tell you about one of my earliest experiences with a Heathkit.
Remember the little "Space Spanner" regen radio ? #( At least I think it was a Space Spanner ) #Anyway, this kid who was a fellow student in the high school "radio club" asked me if I could solder OK. #Well, just dying to get my hands on anything resembling a radio kit, I said, "yess #yesss yesss! " #and ended up re-assembling his kit for him. #
Oh, he had done a fine job of soldering the unit. #The only problem was that he had not cut off the ends of ANY of the leads from the resistors and orange disk capacitors! # Every one ( to the very last one ! ) had been soldered to the proper terminals on the terminal strips with FULL LENGTH LEADS. #
Well, it certainly is easier to clip off excess lead length than it is to try to add wire to leads that are too short, so it didn't take me all that long to undo all of his work, and re-build the kit from the point after you mounted all of the hardware!
The radio worked beautifully, and I had more of a feeling of accomplishment from re-doing that radio from the mess it had been in, than if I had built the whole thing from straight out of the box! #What a memory!
73 from Jim AG3Y
w5alt
10-15-2003, 07:54 PM
Hmmm, did that fellow ever get rid of a Knightkit T-60?
I was offered a non-working T-60 as my first novice TX - you fix it, it's yours. Never one to shirk from a challenge (I knew very little about electronics), I grabbed the radio immediately with the assembly and instruction manual.
When I opened it up, even I knew where the problem was. The soldering looked fine, all parts mounted very nicely, at least to my non-professional eyes. But not a single wire had been cut. There were wires that ran from one terminal tie point to the next one, but went completely around the chassis on the way. It looked like a rat's nest with all the wires.
I disassembled it, reassembled triming the wires to the shortest lengths possible, and used that TX for quite a while. You're right, it was quite a feeling of accomplishment when I got it working and made my first QSO.
73,
AHHH!!! ISO certifications!
A wonderful thing, certifications!!
I won't regale you with the many 'wonderful' stories of dealing with ISO-9000 series certified vendors! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Let's just say that when an ISO-certified company gets certified it means ONE major thing.
They HAVE a documented program and plan which describes WHAT and HOW they are going to do whatever it is they are going to do.
They HAVE a controlled system for making sure that the documents are managed and controlled in a manner designed to assure that only current documents are in use.
They HAVE educated their workforce as to the existence of the documents and that they know where they are.
The ISO standard does NOT specify that whatever you are building HAS to meet ANY requirements. ALL is says is that WHATEVER you are building has to have documented, controlled, and known procedures!
So you can build junk.. and as LONG as you have documented it, control it, and taught people about the documents you can become ISO certiifed! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The specs that define HOW it should work and HOW it should perform are OUTSIDE the ISO regs. They come from contracts, purchase orders, Government specs, Commercial specs and the like.
BRING BACK MIL-Q-9858A, MIL-STD-454, MIL-I-45208A and a few other specs that have stood the test of time and FORCE the contractor to 'DO IT RIGHT!'.
But now.. we have J-STD-001B.. ahh, tis a fine fine thing, I must say, me laddie when one can view a soldered joint and excuse pinholes, solder balls, and measing! Sure and tis a fine fine thing! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #
K6UEY
10-15-2003, 11:41 PM
HUMILITY
When I was with NASA the director of the project wanted me to get certified for Satellite soldering. As I had started my Engineering career as a Senior Technician and had been a Ham who was active in building I had been soldering for many years. So when the word came down to report to the soldering school, I was some what upset by my schedule being disrupted, but there is an old saying in NASA, that is" he may not always be right but he is always the boss ".So bright and early I showed up at the school figuring I would have a little talk with the instructor and probably be back in the lab before 10.The school was impressive very neat soldering stations and a big microscope at each station. I explained my predictiment to the instructor and he seem to be very understanding and sympathetic, he suggested I take the final test which was usually given after 2 weeks of study, and if I passed he would sign me out, boy what a sweet deal this was going to be, he explained the samples that were required and I jumped into it, taking a little longer so as to really make an impression. Upon completion with a big satisfied smile I turned in my effort, he put it under the microscope then asked if I wanted to look for my self, I could not believe any one could do such a lousy looking job of soldering, under the microscope the world was totally different, needless to say I stayed the 2 weeks for the class and really learned a lot about a simple a task, as soldering. BTW my 2nd final test went much better than the first and I got my certification. #
Just a word to the wise, for you young hot shots, there is far more to the simple task than readily meets the eye!
ENJOY !! Ham Radio and Life are learning experiences..... # #73, # ORV
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
K5USS
10-16-2003, 11:04 PM
Orv,
That is a great story! I believe that most all of us have had at least one time in our life where we thought we knew everything and realized we had no clue!!!
Problem is, I have had more than one....But I'll admit to em all. Except the one where there were no witnesses... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif