BPL OBJECTIONS MOUNT!

See http://www.arrl.org for cover story on ANOTHER technically-savvy, economically important group who say NYET! To BPL.

So far.. We have ARRL (hams), ARINC (commercial/private avaition), NTIA (Government) and now broadcasters (Public sector and private economy) ALL being public in their strong 'NYET!!' to BPL.

73

Chuck K3FT

[N8CPA]

I saw that on the League website, this morning. It's very encouraging to have BC interests on our side. "Nirvannah," Kathie girl--or what ever that pompous commissioner's name was? It looks like the RF professionals think otherwise!

Maybe the guidelines for Comm Commissioners should be updated to pass a common sense, rather than political, test.

!!

[ei5ja]

I wish I knew what BPL was. Then again, maybe ignorance is bliss.

73 Ed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N7VQM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Oct. 10 2003,09:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In her speach, Abernathy compared BPL to Direct Broadcast Sattalites. This indicates to me that she is not well-versed on radio unless DBS creates the same kind of broadbanded interferance that BPL does.

[ki4bgo]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7VQM @ Oct. 10 2003,14:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Oct. 10 2003,09:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In her speach, Abernathy compared BPL to Direct Broadcast Sattalites. #This indicates to me that she is not well-versed on radio unless DBS creates the same kind of broadbanded interferance that BPL does.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
She's probably not well-versed 'cause I have 2 DirecTV dishes and one 10ft C-Band dish and get no interference on HF (receiving) from them. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w5alt]

Actually, since the BPL problem appears to be related to the large bandwidth, there is an easy solution that I see to make it compatible with broadcasting and ham radio.

Just limit BPL to a maximum rate of 5 WPM. That should narrow the bandwidth to the point where it doesn't bother anyone. Then we can call it NPL (Narrowband over Power Lines). I can live with that.

This is so simple, I don't know why the FCC hasn't thought of it already.

73,

Think you should run for the job of FCC commish.

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ei5ja @ Oct. 10 2003,11:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wish I knew what BPL was. Then again, maybe ignorance is bliss.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ed, on your side of the Pond you call it PLC.

Cortland

[ErikNY9D]

I put in my reply comments several months ago that power companies should put their rate-payers money into improved power generation and transmission equipment. BPL is capital intensive, too slow for modern applications (live streaming DVD quality video), harms other users, and diverts capital into money-losing business.
Every day I see the abandoned Ricochet antennas on the power poles around my city- that was broadband competition in action, and lot of capital down the drain- who wants slow Internet access?
Erik

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5alt @ Oct. 09 2003,19:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just limit BPL to a maximum rate of 5 WPM. That should narrow the bandwidth to the point where it doesn't bother anyone. Then we can call it NPL (Narrowband over Power Lines). I can live with that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
&gt; Just limit BPL to a maximum rate of 5 WPM. That
&gt; should narrow the bandwidth to the point where it
&gt; doesn't bother anyone. Then we can call it NPL
&gt; (Narrowband over Power Lines). I can live with that.

Why don't we have a 3-tiered data rate, 5 wpm, 13 wpm and 20 wpm? With a 20 wpm limit, we can be assured that only those BPL companies that are truly dedicated and deserving will be able to operate.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[w5alt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Oct. 12 2003,09:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why don't we have a 3-tiered data rate, 5 wpm, 13 wpm and 20 wpm? #With a 20 wpm limit, we can be assured that only those BPL companies that are truly dedicated and deserving will be able to operate.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a fantastic idea, Ed. I agree with you.

Next we could ask the FCC to impose 5, 13 and 20 WPM requirements on the Tech, General #and Extra written exams, too. I mean, if someone can't write at 13 WPM, should they really have access to the HF bands?

73,

[N6YMA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5alt @ Oct. 12 2003,07:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Oct. 12 2003,09:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why don't we have a 3-tiered data rate, 5 wpm, 13 wpm and 20 wpm? #With a 20 wpm limit, we can be assured that only those BPL companies that are truly dedicated and deserving will be able to operate.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a fantastic idea, Ed. I agree with you.

Next we could ask the FCC to impose 5, 13 and 20 WPM requirements on the Tech, General #and Extra written exams, too. I mean, if someone can't write at 13 WPM, should they really have access to the HF bands?

73,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, no, no! They've got to be able to READ at least 5, 13, or 20 WPM in order to get through the written exams! And make the exams timed, just to make sure http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Bob N6YMA

[W9LQI]

Beware the pigs. They're at it on different levels.

South Dak. Democrat was pushing BPL for the Country folks. Or was it North Dak., was one of em.

Dear ole Barbara Boxer, Dem Caliefoorniiia (notice post Sponge Bob spelling), had a bill proposing grab all the frequency possible for new wireless uses probably brought to us by the Nrothern Calieforniia wnaabes that didn't make it on the internet boondoggle.

I thought it was our friendly Republikans in office had at it, but it's much more. It's called let's give away your turf so I can get more money in my cmapeign chest

Writer ur congressman Woman and let em know where you stand. We need lots of letters, e-mails in their in boxes regarding the spectrum grab taking place.

[W5HTW]

If BPL in its present format was instituted in this (and I'm sure many other) rural area, it would have more down time than a Ford Edsel. (OK, don't ask!)

Our company can't keep the power on, even on crystal clear, dead calm days, and they come out an &quot;repair&quot; it two or three times a week. I think the word &quot;repair&quot; means something different to them than it does to me.

BPL on these lines would be impossible. Noisy insulators, hawks shorting out the insulators, wind-blown power lines, old breakers, blown fuses, heavy starting loads for irrigation pumps, lightning (not just close, but far away) contracting of lines in cold weather, all would combine to make BPL a nightmare for any users of it.

Upgrading the lines to make it work would cost just this company millions of dollars. Multiply that by several thousand rural coops around the nation, and BPL in rural areas is probably a billion dollars and 15 years away at the closest. Here just about every insulator and breaker for many miles would have to be replaced, and every one of them, as well as every transformer, would have to be bypassed. Unless they can do that for 20 cents each, the cost will be astronomical. And someone has to pay!

In the cities, electrical distribution systems are terrible. Noise is major, carrying over into cable TV lines that are run along the same utility poles. Motors, neon signs, industrial equipment all contribute to the problem. You don't 'need' BPL to have your HF radio wiped out in the city today, especially if you are mobile and riding along a main drag. In the cities to which I travel, power lines are already S9 along most main streets, and S5 along residential ones.

On my country road, I live near a 14400 power line. By near, I mean it runs along the edge of my property, then turns and runs along the road I'm on. It is hardly 100 feet from one of my dipoles. It's hard to live with. But when I go a half mile and turn the corner onto a road lined with a three-phase 14400 system, HF just about disappears. I can hear S9 signals for the next two miles on HF, and on VHF the scanner keeps hanging up on noise as I pass the power poles. BPL would not be worse, but on lines like that BPL would be impossible.

I doubt there is any place in the US where BPL could be truly viable with the present power lines. I really think it's a pipe dream, at least in its present format. That is not to say it could not be improved and made to work on crappy lines, but the present lines won't work.

Our power company uses the remote reading meters. Sometimes the reader can not get a good signal 100 feet from the meter and has to drive closer, into my lane, in order to read the signal. Other times, after a rain (seldom) and the lines are washed clean, he gets a signal about 150 feet away or so.

It's good to see others are jumping aboard the Anti-BPL Train, though, as we hams are such a tiny minority of users of the spectrum we have no voice at all in the monetary scheme of things. The NAB can help a lot, if they become vocal enough, possibly even more than NTIA. ARINC operates HF also, but so many of their sites are isolated and well-filtered BPL might not be a problem for them.

Anyway, I hope Ms. Abernathy has her feet held to the flame. The FCC, at that level, consists of lawyers and politicians, and &quot;IF&quot; they ask, they get technical advice passed up through the chain of command. But they don't necessarily ask, since the real question is money, and they don't want technical knowledge. And they can't understand it anyway. They want &quot;yes this will work,&quot; or &quot;no this will not work,&quot; and if money says &quot;yes,&quot; then that is the answer they want.


73
Ed

[KD7WHQ]

We have the networked meters out here. They were supposed to put the meter readers out of work, but when you get into rurality, the lines are too long for the meters to communicate reliably with the office.
Guess the concept of error correction is beyond them http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But, we still have meter readers as a result.

BPL as a workable concept, and I mean just the broadband, will never be a reality out here. The only feasable way of working it, would be with fiber, which kind of negates the idea. In addition, it would be a redundant system, as the phone company already has fiber laid and in use..

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Oct. 11 2003,21:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BPL on these lines would be impossible. #Noisy insulators, hawks shorting out the insulators, wind-blown power lines, old breakers, blown fuses, heavy starting loads for irrigation pumps, lightning (not just close, but far away) contracting of lines in cold weather, all would combine to make BPL a nightmare for any users of it. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Ambient, one of the BPL manufacturers, told the FCC that before BPL can be made to work, all of the line noises have to be cleaned up first. ARRL has 300 open cases of conventional power line noise, many of whihc have not been cleaned up in spite of the power company CEO having received warning letters from the FCC. Do the math...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's good to see others are jumping aboard the Anti-BPL Train, though, as we hams are such a tiny minority of users of the spectrum we have no voice at all in the monetary scheme of things.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Speaking of math, this is not necessarily all about money. The majority of the BPL manufacturers are small, with probably less than 20 employees in most cases. For a real eye opener, take a look at Ambient's stock prices:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/scripts....ol=abtg (http://moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/webquote.dll?iPage=qd&Symbol=abtg)

Not exactly the big-buck image some of us had, eh?

As to ham radio, we are bigger bux than you might think. Let's make some conservative assumptions: Assume 200,000 active hams and that, counting the investments we have in our transmit/receive equipment; our antennas; towers; things like coax, connectors, and components; books; training and the like, let's assume that the average amateur has $5,000 invested in amateur radio. That is a collective investment of 1 billion dollars. Not exactly chump change.

How many jobs are involved in amateur radio? I know of over 100 at ARRL HQ, for one. What about the amateur-equipment manufacturers? What about amateur dealers? Publishers? There are 2,000 companies listed in the ARRL TISFIND database, selling products and services of interest to amateur radio. How many jobs are found there?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The NAB can help a lot, if they become vocal enough, possibly even more than NTIA. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The article was as much about the intenational work being done through the ITU working group as anything else. And NAB has weighed in.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ARINC operates HF also, but so many of their sites are isolated and well-filtered BPL might not be a problem for them.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

ARINC filed reply comments that outlined interference they received from a 3.013 MHz carrier-current device, legally authorized under Part 15. They reported the problem to the FCC. The FCC staff tracked the source to a neighborhood a mile+ away. They were unable to pinpoint the involved residences, though. The end result was that ARINC had to abandon the use of the frequency at that facility. This was from a handful of devices that were uses inside resididences, operating on a single frequency. Now, put those same signals on overhead power lines; put those same signals simultaneously over at least several MHz and build them as big as an entire community.

That is BPL.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[W0LC]

Read on:

INITIAL TESTS OF BROADBAND OVER POWER LINES SHOW MAJOR FLAW - True
Cause of Major Northeast Blackout Revealed.

NEW YORK (AP) - Broadband over Power Line proponents met with a major
setback last Thursday as their pilot testing of BPL was identified as
the prime cause of the major power blackout that occured in most of
the Northeast and Canada that left over 50 million in the dark.

BPL Consortium spokesperson I.C. Cash indicated that BPL tests were
progessing well with the initial all '1's test that started last
Monday.

&quot;We were very pleased with our success at BPL's ability to send the
all '1's pattern, but when we introduced the all '0's test last
Thursday afternoon, we encountered a major flaw in our design.&quot; This
flaw was responsible for the blackout that affected the region.

He went on to say, &quot;This is new technology, you know, and the BPL
Consortium technical team still has a few kinks to be worked out.&quot;

Specifically, Mr. Cash went on to say that broadband modulation of the power grid may turn out to be more of a technical challenge than
previously thought. &quot;We didn't realize that our modulation technique
could wreak such havoc on the power grid. Use of direct modulation
of power plants themselves for BPL transmission didn't work as well
as planned. We are meeting this week to reevaluate our design.&quot;

Calls to FCC Chairman Powell for comments on this issue were not
returned.

NY Times reporter Jayson Blair provided the inspiration for this
article.

Sounds pretty clear cut to me.