View Full Version : New guy! A few observations.
KF4ZHL
10-07-2003, 07:19 PM
Hi guys! I've been lurking for quite some time, checking out the atmosphere before signing up. There's a lot of conflict here. Mostly about illegal CB and the code/no-code issue. Let me tell you, I'm a bit surprised. I understand not wanting CB on the ham freqs, but a few of you sound like you're out for a real witch hunt here. Most of the illegal CB activity has little impact on our band. Personally, with the advent of FRS, I don't see why CB can't be run at higher than 4 watts. I don't see the harm in it. I DO however see the problem of running excess mobile wattage (5000 watts and even more!_) and modulation circuit modifications that cause clipping (and harmonics). It's dangerous, can induce dangerous levels of RF current in nearby metal, and can produce harmful interference. It's mostly born of ignorance. I really don't see many with this problem though. It's very expensive for the equipment to generate that kind of power. The majority of illegal operators are just using a cobra and a 100-200 watt amplifier. Big deal! Whoopie! Why not just worry about our little slice of the spectrum? We've got enough to worry about with BPL. Report the occasional harmful interference or out of band transmission and be done with it. Pirate radio is everywhere. Even in the commercial bands.
As far as code goes, I have nothing against it. I don't think it should be a requirement to use voice on HF though. There are freqs designated for code. Those should be the ones you need to know code to get on. I see a lot of "I did it, so everyone else should too!" attitude when it comes to code. Many of these folks are the ones that want to run a witch hunt on CB users too. It almost appears to be a bit of an elitist attitude, sometimes. An "I'm better than the rest." complex of some sort, you know? #Sometimes, I don't quite get it. What is the big deal if tech's have to learn morse or not? If you already have your ticket, what difference does it make to you now? At any rate, code IS on it's way out as a test requirement. It's only a matter of time now that the rest of the world is doing it. If you already learned code, good for you! That's great! I admire that dedication. You just have to remember, things change. Everyone doesn't have to do what you did. Please quit berating no-coders. It's unseemly for people in the Ham community to act like that.
Third, the equipment you recommend to be banned is used by many on tight budgets, including me. I know that it's sold to the CB crowd too, but removing the "Saturday night specials" of the radio world is just as ludicrous as it is in the gun world. I personally have a ten meter all-mode, 100 watt amp., and a dipole waiting for either the restrictions to be lifted, or for me to find the time to learn code. My radio, according to some posts, is a peice of junk that shouldn't be allowed to be used. It may not be a Yaesu or Kenwood, but it's what I can afford on my budget to break into HF. $200 looked good to me. It seems to receive fine. I doubt it transmits any worse. Maybe I'll even get a paddle and try my hand at code someday. Also, I hear repeaters using roger beeps and funny little noises all the time. What's the big deal about those?
All in all, let's cease the sourness and hostilities and all have a little fun in this hobby. We can play together nicely, don't you think?
KG4ZLB
10-07-2003, 07:49 PM
KF4ZHL, excellent posting!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KF4ZHL @ Oct. 07 2003,12:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We've got enough to worry about with BPL.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps, but it doesn't provide much to ARGUE about.
K6UEY
10-07-2003, 08:02 PM
"Excellent Posting"
Too bad it didn't have any thing positive to say about Ham Radio, maybe it was mistakenly posted here instead of a CB Forum ......... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Besides what's wrong with breaking the rules, CBers do it every day......
ZHL... Welcome to Amateur Radio. Enjoy the world of ham radio and explore as much as you can. Try different modes, visit other folks stations and learn about them and play around.. try contests, dxing, traffic handling... in other words..
Explore the great buffett that IS ham radio!
On the other stuff. You will find, as your exposure to ham radio broadens your awareness of and understanding of the background, history, and 'where we came from to get where we are now', you'll understand a lot of the background which supports what you have read here.
It will take time, but you'll see why certain topics generate a lot of responses and passionate debate. You'll gain a fuller awareness of the 'WHY'.
That only comes from study, learning, and exploring.
Trust me.. after 1 year you'll be amazed at what you have learned. After 5 years, you will be amazed at how much your opinions will have changed about things you believed when you first dove into the pool.
As each year goes on..you'll find yourself further developing an appreciation for the traditions and past items upon which ham radio is founded.
Anyway.. WELCOME! ENJOY! EXPLORE!
73
Chuck K3FT
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
w3bny
10-07-2003, 08:07 PM
KF4ZHL de KB3JLZ
First off, notice this is your first post. #Welcome to the forum! #As you can tell, there is a lot of information to be had here. #Also, want to welcome you into the Amateur radio community. #Experiment, learn, and have fun! # :D # As for the code. #Dont hold yer breath that its going away like next week. #Given government red tape....this could take a while! #That and 30 minutes a day aint gonna kill ya! #(hey I did it! #you'll do fine! #Just a few letters a week to start!) #
Yes, times are still tough and money is tight! Id love to have a big Yaesu FT-847, alpha amp, tie it all to a 190ft tower with hard core andrews heliax but guess what my friend....cant afford it but I could afford an older model used Yaesu rig and a G5RV dipole antenna only up 20 in a tree and I'm working otay on 60m and up. #Bit o' advice if I may? #Dig around here in the swapmeet boards or (dare I say) e-bay. #I got a "retiring" operators entire station (yaesu 757gx, astron pwr supply, MFJ 989 tuner, keyer, Vibroplex vibrokeyer, low pass filter, qsy'er and other goodies) for under 700 bucks delivered to my door and I wasnt even a tech yet! #So save what you can (hey I gave up beer/other libations and put the cash away for that purchase). #If you have any questions about what you can/should buy, ask here or your local "elmer" somone will help you out.
Now for the juicy bits...
Good gosh man! #If you have been lurking here for a while as you stated, you should know by now that you just opened up that economy sam's club sized can-o-worms! #:0 #Right next to the dreaded code/no-code flail-ex the "export 10m rig/cb/freebander" topic goes over about as well as a lead ballon! #I have my opinions as well on this and honestly there OM....I have seen the beatings they dispense here to opposing views and this bunnie dont want any o' that krap!
Anyhoo.... #I wish you the best of luck in Amateur radio (and this exercise in flame letter management you started.). #Good luck with your topic (your gonna need it!)
Ren
--on edit-- If I add up what I spent (in my pre-Amateur days) on a connex 4800dx, Magnaforce "10m"amp, wiring, Mr. Coily antenna and other sundires.....I pretty much had that Yaesu paid for.
Oh...before I forget. I did enjoy your post too.
AE6IP
10-07-2003, 08:10 PM
Well said. Welcome to QRZ.
73
Marty AE6IP
n9zxk
10-07-2003, 08:25 PM
kf4zhl, i want to thank you for your excellent post. i just hope you have a better time on here then me. maybe you wont get called " lazy, dumb, stupid and special ". i have been reading the postings here for sometime now even before i joined here. your are right on your out look on most people here. there are a few good ones out here. most dont or wont keep an open mind about the code, no code or even cb. i did read a post where one said he even have a 10 meter rig that had the mod to talk on cb. now i wonder if he has a watt meter in line too so if he talked there he would keep it at 4 watts. who cares. i dont.
i to wanted to upgrade. but not sure if i want to now. i can copy around 75% of the code. with only 15 hours in it. i wonder who would i talk to. i to think the code is the thing of the past.
welcome to ham radio. hope you enjoy it. i have so far.
Ken, let me be one of the first to welcome you to this wonderful world of Amateur Radio! #Because your questions appear to be well thought out, and don't appear to be another "trolling expedition" I welcome them, and hope to be able to answer them in a sincere manner without having this become another "code/no code" shouting match. #I hope that any that follow me will do the same.
I have lifted several of your comments out of your post, so that they will be fresh in our minds as I try to give as honest an answer as I can.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most of the illegal CB activity has little impact on our band. Personally, with the advent of FRS, I don't see why CB can't be run at higher than 4 watts. I don't see the harm in it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I must disagree with you and the statement that there is "little impact on our band" due to illegal activity on 10 meters. # At times, the illegal activity from "Freebanders, HFers, and foreign (primarily Spanish speaking ) users of the 10 meter band is greater than the legal activity. #Since it has been illegal to commercially sell an amplifier in this country capable of operation above 15 meters for many years, most hams are probably running less power than the illegal operators. #Therefore, when it comes to a "shootout" between a legal ham and an illegal "freebander" the illegal operator often wins! #
If you look at the history of "Class D CB" you will find that the frequencies given to the service by the F.C.C. were actually allocated to the amateur radio service many years ago. #The fact that hams lost that allocation to "Class D" has been a bitter pill for many of us O.T.s to swallow. #That in itself has resulted in a great amount of animosity between the two services.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The majority of illegal operators are just using a cobra and a 100-200 watt amplifier. Big deal! Whoopie! Why not just worry about our little slice of the spectrum? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
10 meters DOES happen to be part of "our little slice of the spectrum" and just shrugging our shoulders and turning our cheeks so we can be struck again, and again, is certainly the LAST thing that a true ham would want to do. #
As I mentioned a couple of paragraphs above, it has been illegal to sell any amplifier capable of running above 15 meters in this country for a good number of years, so any amplifier that is purchased from a commercial source for that part of the spectrum is ILLEGAL! #Pure and simple. #It doesn't get any easier to understand! # It IS A BIG DEAL ! It is ILLEGAL!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are freqs designated for code. Those should be the ones you need to know code to get on. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are NOT frequencies designated for code. #Except for a rather unusual allocation just recently established, (around 5 mhz) ALL of each of the ham bands can be used for the purpose of sending and receiving CW transmissions! #The "band plans" break them down into Phone, Digital, CW etc. but if you look at them closely, you will NOT see any restriction to the CW mode. #Only to the various wide band phone modes! #Read your Rules and Regulations!
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you already have your ticket, what difference does it make to you now?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That raises a very sore subject to a lot of us O.T. # Naturally, when it required a great deal of time and effort to work our way up through the ranks, it rubs a lot of us the wrong way to see somebody come in off the street, pass his "Extra" tests, and go out the door with a brand-new shiny certificate! #This is especially true when that "Extra" comes on QRZ.COM and askes how he/she should go about putting up his dipole ( an example that is used quite often ) #Once upon a looooong time ago, you couldn't even apply for Extra until you had been a "lower class" operator for at least a year! #The F.C.C. at that time thought that it took at least that long a time to get to "know the ropes" enough to be able to operate with the privileges awarded to the Extra Class operators of that time. #(a decision that I agree was a wise one. #Too bad they have blown it so badly, lately. . . . but I digress)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">removing the "Saturday night specials" of the radio world is just as ludicrous as it is in the gun world. I personally have a ten meter all-mode, 100 watt amp., and a dipole waiting for either the restrictions to be lifted,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This goes back to the illegal amplifier question again. #Just as a "Saturday night special" can do harm to both the intended victim ( by shooting him with a bullet ) as well as the one doing the shooting ( by blowing up in his hand ! ) #Poor quality equipment can harm neighbors by messing up their TV and Radio reception, and the operator, by having the neighbors press legal action against the operator! #Not to mention that the cheap equipment can actually blow or burn up or otherwise cause harm to the operator. #Ever get between a 5 thousand volt power supply and ground ? # You don't want to, believe me ! ! ! # A cheap amplifier with no interlocks or HV cage around the power supply could put you in SERIOUS risk of harm or even kill you. #But of course, you might not even know that, because you have only been licensed for a few months, and they didn't cover that in the Q&A manual. #( #or did they ? )
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My radio, according to some posts, is a peice of junk that shouldn't be allowed to be used. It may not be a Yaesu or Kenwood, but it's what I can afford on my budget to break into HF. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are many amateur clubs out there that will be more than happy to loan you some GOOD equipment to get started on the HF bands. #Furthermore, you can go to QRZ.COM's "Buy and sell" forums and find many respectible pieces of older equipment that will work better for you than your "peice (sk) of junk" . #That is really a poor excuse.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All in all, let's cease the sourness and hostilities and all have a little fun in this hobby. We can play together nicely, don't you think? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There are many of us that look upon ham radio as much more than a place where we can "play together nicely". #Many ( including myself ) have been involved in rescue on the high seas or disaster recovery efforts because of this advocation, and being told that it is a playground is really a slap in the face.
Feel free to ask more questions, but be prepared to field some flack along the way, because others might not be as patient as I am to answer your questions in a civil manner. #That is not a threat, just a quick glimpse of reality.
73 from Jim AG3Y
KF4ZHL
10-07-2003, 08:59 PM
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I've actually been a Tech for a couple years now. I was inactive for about two years due to location. I'm back in an urban environment now and there's plenty of repeaters!
KF4ZHL
10-07-2003, 10:42 PM
AG3Y, thanks for the welcome. I'm certainly not trying to troll. I'm just trying to put a little bit of a different view on things.
Quote:
I must disagree with you and the statement that there is "little impact on our band" due to illegal activity on 10 meters. At times, the illegal activity from "Freebanders, HFers, and foreign (primarily Spanish speaking ) users of the 10 meter band is greater than the legal activity. Since it has been illegal to commercially sell an amplifier in this country capable of operation above 15 meters for many years, most hams are probably running less power than the illegal operators. Therefore, when it comes to a "shootout" between a legal ham and an illegal "freebander" the illegal operator often wins!
End Quote:
I was specifically referring to the CB band when I was talking about it not impacting our band. What impact could someone in the CB band have on ten meters regardless of power? I have monitored ten meters before many times (SWL with a long wire). At least 90% of the illegal activity I heard on ten was all south of the border. There's simply not much to be done about that, despite whether it's right or wrong. My point was that what goes on in the CB freqs. has nothing to do with Hams! We are not the frequency police for the entire spectrum. If they are transmitting on Ham bands, that's different. Once again, since you can't make it illegal to sell Ham equipment to non-hams, you can only do so much enforcing within our borders. Who will search for illegal equipment? Police are already confiscating equipment from Hams under scanner laws because they don't have a good understanding of the equipment. You can't place that kind of burden on our law enforcement. Mobile pirates are going to be near impossible to catch, period. Perhaps Hams can locate these guys on the road and file a civil suit of some sort, but if you're looking for criminal charges, you might be waiting a long while to never.
Quote:
If you look at the history of "Class D CB" you will find that the frequencies given to the service by the F.C.C. were actually allocated to the amateur radio service many years ago. The fact that hams lost that allocation to "Class D" has been a bitter pill for many of us O.T.s to swallow. That in itself has resulted in a great amount of animosity between the two services.
End Quote:
I didn't know that. It explains a lot. Then again, CB and FRS have their place as a useful service to the average guy who just wants to keep tabs on his kids at the park, or the tired truck driver who wants to chat with friends while on the road. What else are they supposed to do? They have nowhere else to go. Do not misinterpret me, that doesn't mean I approve of them transmitting 15KW mobile and/or clipping the modulation limiters! They need reasonable power to talk with clean equipment, that's all.
Quote:
10 meters DOES happen to be part of "our little slice of the spectrum" and just shrugging our shoulders and turning our cheeks so we can be struck again, and again, is certainly the LAST thing that a true ham would want to do.
End Quote:
I think you misunderstand me. I do not approve of CB users transmitting out of band.
Quote:
As I mentioned a couple of paragraphs above, it has been illegal to sell any amplifier capable of running above 15 meters in this country for a good number of years, so any amplifier that is purchased from a commercial source for that part of the spectrum is ILLEGAL! Pure and simple. It doesn't get any easier to understand! It IS A BIG DEAL ! It is ILLEGAL!
End Quote:
True. Spitting on the sidewalk is also illegal. That doesn't necessarily make it a big deal. If it happens outside of our freqs it's not our business or our job to be the vigilantes of the RF spectrum.
Quote:
There are NOT frequencies designated for code. Except for a rather unusual allocation just recently established, (around 5 mhz) ALL of each of the ham bands can be used for the purpose of sending and receiving CW transmissions! The "band plans" break them down into Phone, Digital, CW etc. but if you look at them closely, you will NOT see any restriction to the CW mode. Only to the various wide band phone modes! Read your Rules and Regulations!
End Quote:
I was referring to the band plans. They sound like good plans to me. Don't they to you? That way, coders have their own little unadulterated area to use. Since phone is restricted and the only thing a no-coder would use, that blocks them from using the coding freqs. effectively designating an area for code, yes?
Quote:
That raises a very sore subject to a lot of us O.T. Naturally, when it required a great deal of time and effort to work our way up through the ranks, it rubs a lot of us the wrong way to see somebody come in off the street, pass his "Extra" tests, and go out the door with a brand-new shiny certificate! This is especially true when that "Extra" comes on QRZ.COM and askes how he/she should go about putting up his dipole ( an example that is used quite often ) Once upon a looooong time ago, you couldn't even apply for Extra until you had been a "lower class" operator for at least a year! The F.C.C. at that time thought that it took at least that long a time to get to "know the ropes" enough to be able to operate with the privileges awarded to the Extra Class operators of that time. (a decision that I agree was a wise one. Too bad they have blown it so badly, lately. . . . but I digress)
End Quote:
I'm sorry, but this definitely sounds like the "I did it, so you have to do it too!" mentality. There are a lot of things that had to be done in the past that don't have to be done now. There are also a lot of things that have to be done now that didn't have to be done in the past. Times change, people change, the world changes. I don't think that making someone hold a license a year before upgrading is a bad idea though.
Quote:
This goes back to the illegal amplifier question again. Just as a "Saturday night special" can do harm to both the intended victim ( by shooting him with a bullet ) as well as the one doing the shooting ( by blowing up in his hand ! ) Poor quality equipment can harm neighbors by messing up their TV and Radio reception, and the operator, by having the neighbors press legal action against the operator! Not to mention that the cheap equipment can actually blow or burn up or otherwise cause harm to the operator. Ever get between a 5 thousand volt power supply and ground ? You don't want to, believe me ! ! ! A cheap amplifier with no interlocks or HV cage around the power supply could put you in SERIOUS risk of harm or even kill you. But of course, you might not even know that, because you have only been licensed for a few months, and they didn't cover that in the Q&A manual. ( or did they ? )
End Quote:
Oh, come now! Cheaper pistols DON'T just blow up in your face. Any more than cheap 100-200 Watt amps will electrocute you. They don't get near high voltage levels, so HV precautions aren't an issue. The point of such logic is mostly to make something so expensive as to be inaccessable to most people's income so they will be deterred from buying it. The one I have is an older tube type in good shape, so I don't know if this is one you would be referring to. I got it very cheaply because it was "broken". When I looked inside, I saw that the switching transistor had simply broken a lead.
Quote:
There are many amateur clubs out there that will be more than happy to loan you some GOOD equipment to get started on the HF bands. Furthermore, you can go to QRZ.COM's "Buy and sell" forums and find many respectible pieces of older equipment that will work better for you than your "peice (sk) of junk" . That is really a poor excuse.
End Quote:
Here's another of my points. What's wrong with my equipment? We're assuming it's terrible. How do we know this? It seems to receive wonderfully. Nice clean audio. I'm not so willing to just dismiss it as junk before I have a chance to use it to it's fullest potential. I think it will work just fine.
Quote:
There are many of us that look upon ham radio as much more than a place where we can "play together nicely". Many ( including myself ) have been involved in rescue on the high seas or disaster recovery efforts because of this advocation, and being told that it is a playground is really a slap in the face.
End Quote:
Perhaps my analogy wasn't the best. It's great that you've been able to do these things. To be involved in search and rescue is a very respectable accomplishment. At the same time, amateur radio is a hobby and I think there's more than enough room for both work and play. I think you'll agree that this hobby is primarily for recreational purposes in absence of an emergency. As such, let's not be overly serious here.
Don't worry too much about me catching flak. I'm a combat veteran and my ego doesn't bruise too easily. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
K6UEY
10-07-2003, 11:10 PM
KF4HZL,
I believe you are making the presumption that because CB radio has become a hobby to many, that Ham Radio is also, that would be in ERROR. A review of CFR47 Part 97 as you agreed to do when your license grant was made will reveal, NO WHERE does it say that Ham Radio is a hobby. I call to your attention part 97.1 in which the purpose and basis of Amateur Radio are explained and no mention or inference to a "HOBBY" is made. I am not sure whether it is the CB influence or where it comes from but this seems to be a very common misunderstanding with a majority of new people coming into Ham Radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # 73, # ORV
Gentlemen: START YOUR ENGINES!
herewegoherewegoherewegoherewegoherewego...
Ken -
Yes there are a number of repeaters. #Be a contributor and not a user of them. #They are not paid for by governments, radio manufacturers or large cellular carriers. #They are supported and paid for by amateur radio operators and clubs.
w9gb
w5alt
10-08-2003, 12:05 AM
I wonder if AE6IP is watching. We could rehash and rehash and bore everyone to death all over again.
It's a hobby, it's a service, it's a hobby, it's a service .... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I still think it's a hobby to most and that the FCC doesn't care - sorry about that.
73,
AE6IP
10-08-2003, 12:10 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Oct. 07 2003,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KF4HZL,
I believe you are making the presumption that because CB radio has become a hobby to many, that Ham Radio is also, that would be in ERROR. A review of CFR47 Part 97 as you agreed to do when your license grant was made will reveal, NO WHERE does it say that Ham Radio is a hobby. I call to your attention part 97.1 in which the purpose and basis of Amateur Radio are explained and no mention or inference to a "HOBBY" is made. I am not sure whether it is the CB influence or where it comes from but this seems to be a very common misunderstanding with a majority of new people coming into Ham Radio.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # 73, # ORV[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The word hobby doesn't appear in the regs for any of the hobby services. See, for instance, the regs for remote control.
On the other hand, the word hobby is used by the ARRL to describe the amateur radio hobby.
97.1 does not give the basis of the hobby. Rather, it gives the basis for the FCC to provide spectrum for the hobby. This is easiest to see in the wording of 97.1C
On the other hand, 97.3 gives the legal definition of the service, in 97.3a4:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of
self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried
out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As you say, there is a very common misunderstanding, not shared by the IARU or the ARRL that the hobby isn't a hobby.
AE6IP
10-08-2003, 12:11 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5alt @ Oct. 07 2003,17:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder if AE6IP is watching. We could rehash and rehash and bore everyone to death all over again.
It's a hobby, it's a service, it's a hobby, it's a service .... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I still think it's a hobby to most and that the FCC doesn't care - sorry about that.
73,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We agree on that.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
73
Marty
kb9ax
10-08-2003, 12:56 AM
I use it as a hobby. I do it in my spare time. I don't make any money at it. It costs me more than my wife would like. You can only get a job in it as an employee of a ham radio group, or a store that specializes in selling ham radio.
In an emergency what you learn on your own and through said groups can be used to benefit others outside of routine channels.
So, it seems to have all the properties of a hobby.
I have a commercial pilots license and an appropriate medical, but since I currently don't fly for anyone to make money I consider aviation one of my hobbies as well. It also benefits the Red Cross and other emergency services when they need help.
Even though the best way to get an answer on this issue would be to have the FCC answer the question directly, instead of trying to interpret what we think they said.
Dan KB9AX
ai4ep
10-08-2003, 12:56 AM
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif while those other folks are arguing...I will just squeeze in here edgewise and tell you...welcome to qrz.com. Most of the folks here are nice & polite. Welcome !! ---- now back to our arguing, already in progress ( after this commercial break for ford trucks, bud beer and swifter floor cleaners ) ----
I hate it when these "nicenicks" force us to cut away from our regularly scheduled bickering.
KI4BOO
10-08-2003, 01:34 AM
am·a·teur ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-tûr, -tr, -chr, -chr, -tyr)
n.
A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
-----
hob·by1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hb)
n. pl. hob·bies
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.
I think it's a hobby.
KB1JCY
10-08-2003, 02:11 AM
Man, these QRZ threads are creating a world of hurt when writing content for our club's website. Is it service or hobby? Are we amateur radio operators, hams, ham operators, or radio amateurs? What gets capitalized? What is generally expected? Is there a style guide that I can go by?
EI7JK
10-08-2003, 03:08 AM
KF4ZHL
Well done, excellent post !!!!
KF4ZHL
10-08-2003, 02:07 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w9gb @ Oct. 07 2003,16:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ken -
Yes there are a number of repeaters. #Be a contributor and not a user of them. #They are not paid for by governments, radio manufacturers or large cellular carriers. #They are supported and paid for by amateur radio operators and clubs.
w9gb[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Very good point sir. I will support by joining the local club. I would like to have my own repeater sometime too. Antenna restrictions will be the biggest problem. You can't seem to buy suburban property without them.
KF4ZHL
10-08-2003, 02:16 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd4amg @ Oct. 07 2003,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif while those other folks are arguing...I will just squeeze in here edgewise and tell you...welcome to qrz.com. #Most of the folks here are nice & polite. Welcome !! ---- now back to our arguing, already in progress ( after this commercial break for ford trucks, bud beer and swifter floor cleaners ) ----[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thank you! There certainly is a lot of disagreement between hams. I think we need a little clarification from the FCC. The reg sounds to me like it's saying the FCC is providing a service to amateurs by allocating them frequencies. It seems poorly written. Of course, they probably didn't forsee all this. I think some may find the term "hobby" somehow lessens amateur radio.
I just think it is so interesting that of all the points that were discussed, the last two pages of the thread have been devoted to the "hobby/not a hobby" aspect of the advocation! #As the German soldier on "Laugh-in used to say, " Veeerrrryy #Interesting ! #" # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
How about some input on some of the other points? #He is seriously looking for some good answers to his well-thought-out questions ! # #Please notice that the "hobby/not a hobby" issue was just a small portion of his total article.
It's like when Dan Quayle mis-spelled "Potato" #( or is it Potatoe ? #) or even more to the point, talked about "Murphy Brown" in one paragraph of a speech that lasted for over 20 minutes, and that is the only thing you heard about for weeks afterward # ( btw, I think that Quayle was right, but that is another issue ! ) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73 from Jim AG3Y
ki4bgo
10-09-2003, 11:49 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AG3Y @ Oct. 08 2003,10:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">#( btw, I think that Quayle was right, but that is another issue ! ) #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif Quayle? ...RIGHT?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif ROFL!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I see it spelled both ways on the web "Quale" and "Quayle" ! ! !
You tell me which one is right. I really don't know !
"You say Potato, and I say Potahtoe , You say Tomato, and I say Tomahtoe, Potato, Potahtoe, Tomato, Tomahto, lets call the whole thing off ! ! " ( old popular song ! )
(BTW, I think if you look it up, you might just find that I do, indeed, have the last laugh! )
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Yourself !
73 from Jim AG3Y
KF4ZHL
10-09-2003, 03:20 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Oct. 07 2003,13:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Excellent Posting"
Too bad it didn't have any thing positive to say about Ham Radio, maybe it was mistakenly posted here instead of a CB Forum ......... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Besides what's wrong with breaking the rules, CBers do it every day......[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Who's breaking rules? Why would it be on a CB forum? I don't understand your point.
Anyway, I think amateur radio kind of speaks for itself when it comes to positive things. I love it. I've learned a great deal from this hobby. Understanding how radio frequencies and modulation work cleared up all the confusion I had about electronic circuits to begin with. I've even built a couple of small radio transmitter circuits (from schematics). I experimented with the transmit frequency by stretching/compressing the coil and adjusting the variable cap. The drift was terrible, but they worked! As a learning experience, amateur radio is great! I've tried to bring in two people to the hobby. Unfortunately, only one went so far as to get his license. The other one stayed with CB. Maybe he'll come around some day.
kb9ax
10-09-2003, 04:01 PM
Ken, Like some others have mentioned already, Welcome to QRZ.com. As for the subject you mentioned in your original post, I feel I need to say a few more things regarding your opinions on the OTs and the code issues.
When I first came on QRZ.com I noticed that most of the negative posts where directed at the OF, OT etc. these where people stating that Morse was old, and therefore needed to be thrown away. The OT’s are just too old to work the new more modern modes like SSB, PSK31 etc etc. There was quite a bit of name calling on both frontiers at the time. Even some very personal attacks on a few Old Farts, many of which are still a bit sensitive to new comers saying they shouldn’t have any say in it anymore. Since we did a good job proving that HF and all modes, SSB included where old anyway most of that debate has settled down some. In defense of what you usually see on this board, this is a TALK and OPINIONS area of QRZ.com, So, we expect people to express their opinions, if we like it or not. Most of us love to argue back and forth, that’s why we are here. If we wanted to just be helpful and nice we could talk on the air instead.
Just to throw in a little history for you on the hobby issue. Ham radio started out as just a hobby, with radio enthusiasts experimenting with the hottest technical concept of the day. This was quite a long time ago. The ARRL or at least old Hiram, saw a need to organize this group of amateurs and give them a useful purpose to gain some support from the government. This eventually led to the ARRL, if you have a chance to read “200 meters and down” please get the book and read it, it’s full of great history. So the national traffic system gave us a structure and a purpose that was useful to the community. This traffic system also made us more useful in emergencies and helped gain support for us during a very crucial stage when the NAVY and other services wanted to halt all radio experimenting outside of commercial interests and military use. In defense of those that feel that ham radio is a SERVICE to the community, they are correct. It is the work of groups that have helped form services out of our ranks that have given us clout and a purpose beyond just being hobbyists. I don’t happen to be one of the people that think the term service in the FCC rules is interpreted as meaning it’s not a hobby though. So you will see us debate this issue, and I for one really like reading the resulting arguments.
Your post hit on all the really good debate points all at once, so naturally we would think you wanted to have fun arguing some of the points. It appears you did enjoy it a bit. There are very helpful hams on this site, and for the most part this is one of the tamest boards that I have seen. We all get along pretty well. I have received some nice compliments from several members here that really help you feel welcome and a part of things. I am sure you will notice the same thing. The best thing these sessions help with is getting rid of any old wives tales you may take as true, once they are pointed out we can zero in on the good topics and have fun arguing no win stuff like code .vs. no code and if CB operators would make good hams.
Again welcome to our little dysfunctional family.
Dan KB9AX
KF4ZHL
10-09-2003, 05:01 PM
Thanks Dan! Let me say that you guys don't have to treat me gently, just civilly. I knew these were hot topics. I understand that bickering won't change most peoples point of view. I don't expect to blaze through here and bring everyone together. I do think that as a community right now, we seem to lack a little tolerance for "change" or "different". I don't like the name calling and belittling I see. Some newbies are pretty sensitive about their Ham tickets and don't need the negative attitude. Recently, it seems to be coming mostly from the pro-code/anti-CB group. Insulting everything from people to terminology to equipment, and they're including no-code techs in the mix. That certainly doesn't mean ALL pro-code/anti-CB Hams are acting like this. I'm starting to get the impression that the CB issue is a long standing fued resulting from Hams losing the freqs to begin with, and then the illegal encroachment of the CB users into the 10 meter band. Strangely enough, though one might think otherwise from my opinion, I was never a CB enthusiast. I do know a few though. One of the reasons they're not Hams is this "Hatfields vs. McCoys" attitude that seems so prevalent on both sides. I think as Hams, we should be leading the way to draw in radio enthusiasts and expose them to a positive learning experience rather than propigating this pointless fighting.
One thing to keep in mind when you post. Not everyone on here can see things from your perspective, not all will agree, and then, there will be those that throw stones, regardless.
Amateur radio is a wonderful hobby, a fun hobby full of modes, capabilities, etc. that everyone can enjoy. However, you will find in your time in the hobby, the bad eggs that are out there, individuals with poor attitudes, etc. Just like driving. Some are courteous, some are cautious, some are jerks, some are carelss, etc. You have to learn to live with and deal with them.
Reducing the entrance criteria into the hobby won't help matters, but we will have to adapt and deal with it.
Welcome in, have fun and enjoy!
... -.-