HFpack Pedestrian Mobile Shootout

[KQ6XA]

Open to all amateur radio operators, the HFpack Shootout is an exciting live event to accurately measure and report the signal strength of Pedestrian and Human Mobile HF systems, on 18MHz and 5MHz as a service to radio operators around the world. It is dedicated to furthering the state of the art for HF Portable.

On Saturday 18 October 2003, HFpack, The HF Portable Group, will hold the 3rd annual HFpack Shootout at USA's west coast ham convention "Pacificon" in San Ramon, California. It is attended by an enthusiastic array of participants and spectators. Bring along your backpack radio and join the fun! The 2001 and 2002 Shootout Reports are available.

HF portable, pedestrian, and bicycle operation has rapidly become one of the most popular fast-growing aspects of ham radio. HF Pedestrian Mobile (/PM) operators have fun building up backpack radio systems and antennas to operate from outdoor locations around the world. They congregate around the HF portable calling frequencies:
18157.5 USB, 5371.5 USB, and 14342.5 USB

About HFpack:
HFpack is an international resource for portable High Frequency communications. It provides an information exchange about transceivers, antennas, systems, packs, propagation, new developments and techniques in HF portable operation. HFpack operates an egroup and weekend on-the-air schedules. It has over 4000 members worldwide and membership is free and open to all radio operators interested in HF Portable.
More info: HFpack website (http://www.hfpack.com)

73---Bonnie KQ6XA

[n3wjl]

Sounds like a contest to me...and not a very good idea or use for 5mhz!

[KQ6XA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3wjl @ Oct. 03 2003,10:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like a contest to me...and not a very good idea or use for 5mhz![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps it would be good to add more info about it to help you understand the event.

The HFpack Shootout is not a radio contest. It is a live RF field strength measuring event at a hamfest. It provides a fun and accurate way for operators to learn the relative efficiency of their transmitting and antenna systems. An extremely good use for the new 5MHz channels on a Saturday at mid day.

[KQ6XA]

HFpack Events at Pacificon (http://www.pacificon.org)
SATURDAY 18 OCTOBER 2003 IN CALIFORNIA

11:30AM~2:30PM HFPACK SHOOTOUT 2003
Measuring dB level of pedestrian and human mobile setups on 5 and 18 MHz.
Location: Pacificon, San Ramon California,
in a field, a few blocks away from the convention.
Pack a lunch. Bring your Pedestrian Mobile pack.

3:45PM HFPACK PORTABLE HF FORUM
Powerpoint presentation by Bonnie KQ6XA
Live demos by HFpackers with state-of-the-art
portable systems.
Location: San Ramon Marriott, Forum Room F and G.

5:30PM HFPACK SNACK'N'DRINK
Relax with fellow HFpackers around the patio tables.
Location: Pasta Pomodoro restaurant, 146 Sunset Drive,
next to the Marriott Hotel.

8:45PM HFPACK ZOMBIE WALK'N'TALK
A casual evening with pedestrian and portable gear
outside in the beautiful California environment.
Location: San Ramon Marriott hotel front lawn.
Primary: 5371.5 USB
Alternates: 7242.5 LSB, 3997.5 LSB

Click Here for more information about HFpack (http://www.hfpack.com)

[KQ6XA]

http://www.qsl.net/hfpack/hfpack_shootout_map2.jpg
HFpack Shootout 2003: Event Guidelines
HFpack (http://www.hfpack.com)

On Saturday 18 October 2003, HFpack will hold the
3rd annual HFpack Shootout at USA's west coast ham
convention "Pacificon" in San Ramon, California.
The purpose of the shootout is to measure signal
strength of pedestrian and human mobile HF systems
on 18MHz and 5MHz in a controlled manner and report
the results as a service to radio operators around the
world. Participation and entry in the shootout is open
and free to all radio amateurs.

New for 2003: Complete Systems Shootout

Unlike previous years where only the antennas were
tested, the HFpack Shootout 2003 tests complete
backpack and human mobile systems on
18MHz and 5MHz in several power and type categories.

Entrant Information Required:

1) Entrant Operator Name and Callsign
2) Entrant Team Name
3) Category(s) and Band(s) of Entry
4) Description of transmitter
5) Description of antenna system
6) Description of power source
7) Description of other equipment used
8) Polarization (Horizontal or Vertical)
9) Measured power output of transmitter
10) Measured height of antenna system
11) Measured diameter of antenna system

Basic Shootout Description

1) A circle 10 meters (33ft) in diameter in an open area
shall be clearly marked. The entrant operator, antenna
system and equipment shall be within this circle during
the RF measurement.

2) The entrant operator's voice transmission shall be
measured in decibels of peak RF signal strength by a
nearby test receiver, connected to a vertical and a
horizontal antenna. The operator shall make a brief
transmission for the Shootout test receiver engineer
to verify best polarization.

3) The entrant operator shall make three USB voice
transmissions and the Shootout test receiver engineer
shall make 3 corresponding RF signal strength
measurements. The maximum and minimum
measurements shall not be used. The medium (median)
measurement shall be recorded as the final
measurement of the entrant.

4) The RF measurements shall be made on amateur
frequencies designated by the Shootout engineer
within the 18MHz and the 5MHz bands.

5) An entrant may separately enter any or all
categories and frequency bands.

Entrant Requirements and Guidelines

1) The entrant operator shall check in, weigh in the
equipment, and demonstrate the ability to move about
freely while carrying all equipment and antenna system.
The entrant's transmitter output power into a 50ohm
dummy load shall be measured by the Shootout
engineer.

2) The entrant operator shall carry and support the full
weight of all equipment and antenna system during the
RF measurements; however, a single wire or cable
dragging counterpoise attached to the radio equipment
with a maximum total length of 10 meters in a single
direction and a maximum cross section of 1 centimeter
may be touching, dragging, or laying on the surface
upon which the operator is walking or standing.
This counterpoise wire shall not be attached to a
ground rod or imbedded in the ground, or in any way
elevated above the surface of the earth by fixed objects
on the ground.

3) The entrant's antenna system shall not exceed a
total height of 10 meters above the surface level upon
which the operator is walking or standing, and the
entire weight of the antenna shall be carried by the
operator during the RF measurements.

Category 1 = Pedestrian 100W Class

1) The output power of the Category 1 entrant
operator's transmitter shall not exceed 100 Watts PEP.

2) The total weight of the Category 1 entrant operator's
transmitting equipment shall not exceed 20 kilograms
(44 pounds), inclusive of transmitter, antenna system,
all wires, cables, backpack/cases, microphone, and
power supply.

3) Only the entrant operator's body may be used to
support the equipment; no monopod, tripod, wheeled
support, or other support device shall be used to hold
up the equipment or the antenna system.

Category 2 = Pedestrian 10W Class

1) The output power of the Category 2 entrant
operator's transmitter shall not exceed 10 Watts PEP.

2) The weight of the Category 2 entrant's equipment
is not limited.

3) Only the entrant operator's body may be used to
support the equipment; no monopod, tripod, wheeled
support, or other support device shall be used to hold
up the equipment or the antenna system.

Category 3 = Human Mobile 100W Class

1) A Human Mobile is considered to be any wheeled
vehicle, craft, device, cart, skates, wagon, bicycle,
tricycle, quadracycle, scooter, or carrier which is
powered for movement solely by human energy.

2) The output power of the Category 3 entrant
operator's transmitter shall not exceed 100 Watts PEP.

3) The weight of the Category 3 entrant's equipment
is not limited.

Differently-Abled Notes

1) Differently-abled operators may freely enter any category
of their choice, exempt from requirements of support
of equipment, and may utilize any type of body support
assistance including but not limited to: walkers, canes,
crutches, motorized wheelchair, other assisted devices,
or the assistance of another person for carrying
equipment. No questions asked.

Shootout Notes

1) The general public, amateur radio operators,
volunteer witnesses, and others may be present to view
the Shootout. All entrants should conduct themselves
in the spirit of friendly cooperation.

2) Other guidelines may be posted or verbally
announced or personally advised at the Shootout by
the organizers to comply with local laws and regulations.

3) In the unlikely event of confusion or dispute, a panel
of three HFpack members chosen by the HFpack
members present at the shootout will attempt to resolve
the issue in an amicable manner.

4) The results of the HFpack Shootout 2003 will be
announced on the HFpack website and a report will
be issued documenting the entrant systems.

HFpack (http://www.hfpack.com)
http://www.qsl.net/hfpack/hfpackcollage4.jpg

[K2WH]

Whoa!!! 5mhz??? #5 Mhz is not a place to be doing testing. #Only USB is allowed with an erp of 50 watts. #That means, no carriers (CW) no tuneup etc. #Technically, it is illegal to even tune up on 5 mhz however, if you whistle and tune up it is technically legal.

The ERP will probably not be a problem with the inefficient antennas the packrats use but watch out what you do on those frequencies. I hope someone did their homework on this one.

K2WH

[kr4wm]

Hey, no fair! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif That means I can't use my Tokyo/Hy-power
HT-750!!! It only does 40-15-6M!!! Aw shucks, y'all go ahead
and have a great time! (Too far for me to attend anyhow...)
73, -Web Williams in Myrtle Beach, SC

[kg4rrv]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Oct. 01 2003,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Open to all amateur radio operators[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm a Tech. Is it open to me? #No. #This morse code requirement sucks.

[KC8QMU]

It's open for you to watch and maybe learn something. And the code requirement? Please. You could have probably learned 4 characters in the little bit of time you just took to whine about it. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif This isn't CB. You've earned your right to operate above 50 Mhz, if you want to operate below 50Mhz you have to earn that priviledge too.

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4rrv @ Oct. 03 2003,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Oct. 01 2003,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Open to all amateur radio operators[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm a Tech. Is it open to me? #No. #This morse code requirement sucks.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's the truth my friend...

KC8QMU's post shows his "Superiority" complex..."you can watch"....he's the one whineing, Too far for me to go to anyway, but I'll listen and see if I can hear anything way out here in the sticks. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Hey George go back to CB yourself! and take your stinking attitude with you!! amateur radio don't need your kind of friendly comments just because you dissagree, kg4rrv didn't make any derogetory remarks like you did! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[k7unz]

And so it begins........

Ya know, I have to wonder what it would be like to see a thread that which only had constructive comments which actually pertained to the subject.

Oh well, dream on......

Jim/k7unz

[kd5oij]

-----------------------------------------------------------
It's open for you to watch and maybe learn something. And the code requirement? Please. You could have probably learned 4 characters in the little bit of time you just took to whine about it. This isn't CB. You've earned your right to operate above 50 Mhz, if you want to operate below 50Mhz you have to earn that priviledge too.
------------------------------------------------------------
When all else fails, resort to redneck ingenuity- ignorance and brute force!
------------------------------------------------------------
IT's amazing to see an operator degrade another due to his opinion. Then expect it to carry any validity with a quote as useless as used above. Sir and I use that term loosely, you are a disgrace to the service..... you are no better then the atypical CB'er in that you use this site to expound your tripe rather then the 11 meter band you claim to be so displeased with. I have serious doubts you could elmer your way out of a wet paper bag. 73's good buddy, Dave

[KC8QMU]

OIJ and KLU,

The only ones putting down anybody (or trying to) are you. I was not putting RRV down, just stating simple facts. If you 2 are caught up your desire to have all of your priveledges without earning them then that is your problem. I was not calling anybody a CBer, but you seem to still be facinated enough with it to consider me one. You don't even have the priviledges or abilities to work me on the radio, yet you want to try to judge me. I wasn't even stating my real opinion, I was stating the fact of the situation.

Any then you talk about my so called "superiority complex". Maybe you should go grab a book and study your own "inferiority complex"

I am only general class as of right now, I would like to have priviledges in the extra class part of the bands, but you don't hear me whining about how I am not allowed there. Instead, I'll put that effort in studying.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[w6th]

-.-. # --.-

Wow, this sounds very interesting and should go over big.

Would be bigger if more of the proper frequencies were being used. You know, frequencies for all use.

I am sure it will go over big and will be watching.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # --... # ...--

# # # # # # # # # # # # # #. -. -..

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #---------------

[K6UEY]

It must be some thing they are putting in the water that draws these people out.........
FYI
#73 #= BEST REGARDS
#73's = BEST REGARDS'ES
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[k7myr]

Sounds like a lot of fun for all...

C'mon guys...don't hammer too hard on the "no-coders" They are people too....Let's be patient.....another few short years (or less) and the Morse code test will be gone. (period)


73(s)! and Best regards's

Rick

[K6UEY]

RICK W7MYR,
Considering past performance I would have expected no less !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kn6z]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5oij @ Oct. 04 2003,09:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IT's amazing to see an operator degrade another due to his opinion.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
New to the site?

[WD8OQX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

When I read the title of this thread, I though, why would hams want to shoot each other? But after reading some of the comments, I'm beginning to see why....

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[WA1GJF]

WD8OQX wrote:
When I read the title of this thread, I though, why would hams want to shoot each other? But after reading some of the comments, I'm beginning to see why....

This may be the most intelligent and insightful post in quite some time. Isn't it amazing how quickly an opinion is judged and condemned without taking the time to respond!
Remember, after a loss, a basketball coach was asked if the team's execution was at fault. His response was that the execution was now an option. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KA3RFE]

Crap! Everything has to degenerate into another code/no-code fight.

Those of you insulting the tech are ASSUMING he's a no-code tech. He could just have his 5 wpm, and that makes his complaint valid!!!

[W4CNG]

This is the third year that this measurement and competetion has been done. There is nothing stopping someone from doing the same thing on other frequency bands. The HF Pack is a SIG and many members work hard to design and improve on Portable antenna systems for mostly QRP users that operate temporary and portable. The world is open to other SIG's that may want to do the same thing in other portion's of the spectrum. Yes this is HF, but that does not stop you from doing the same in the VHF spectrum. Quit complaining and get it Done.

[WD8OQX]

Unless I am missing something here, the way I see it, anyone COULD partisipate. All they would need is a control operator.

As another poster said, you can always learn something just by watching or getting involved in any way you can. It is the learning aspect of this that is the most important part of it anyway.

As to my previous post - It was meant to show the outright stupidity of all this fighting among our ranks... (but in a non-agressive manner - guess it didn't do it's intended job...)

[ke4zhn]

Icom 706 Mk II G`s (or FT 817`s) and gelcell battery packs at 20 paces? The one with the strongest signal that leaves without getting a hernia from lugging all that gear wins! #I tried Hf pack once, but that darn Icom 781 plus the Henry console and the 5 kw generator was just too darn heavy to haul around! You should have seen the stares I got with the 10 foot tower section strapped to my back and a TA 33 mosley on it. Didnt need a rotator, I just would face my contact on 20 mtrs. while recovering from retrieving my cahonies off the sidewalk. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WD8OQX]

ke4zhn

Would you like to buy a truss? How about some "PJ's" with an "S" on them?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC8QMU]

As I noted before, anything I posted was not meant to be derogatory towards anyone- I was simply pointing out FACTS- such the same was done to me at another point of time- but face to face- and thus showed and inspired me to upgrade.

The problem occurs with wannabes like oij and klu-
they want their priviledges given to them- it doesn't matter how anyone else had to earn them- they feel that they are "special".

And oij- just to correct your ignorant know it all point of view,

I studied code at the same time with a friend that has serious hearing and health problems- we would practice code back and forth just about every night on 6m CW- doctors told him that he would never be able to learn something such as Morse Code- to make a long story short, I got my measly 5wpm. before he did-but I continued to practice with him.

About 5 months later he passed his 5wpm, yes I helped him in practice for those months, but he ultimately earned his 5 wpm by his own will power, and became a general class license holder. #HE HIMSELF proved the doctors wrong. #While I might of helped and tried to encourage him, HE was the man who proved them wrong.

And OIJ says I can't elmer my way out of a wet paper bag. #I won't sit here and claim praise for what I tried to help someone with, it was my friend's will power that earned him his ticket, but in all honesty, people with like OIJ and KLU obviously display that they don't have enough knowledge to help anybody actually further themselves, so they come on these forums and whine about us that try to use the hobby to learn something.

Let's see you two try to help someone learn the code, since you spend so much time whining about us that try to help those that choose to.

And RRM, get a hold of me any time if you have a question about something, if I don't know the answer I will find someone that does. #I am a member of the same truck forum you are. #I surely don't know everything, but I will help you in anyway I can, just as certain people have done for me. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[WA2ZDY]

And to think, all I wanted to do was drop a comment about walking around with my 1970 vintage Motorola HT200 on 29.6 fm. Or my early 1970's vintage Motorola PT300 lunchbox on 29.6.

Oh well, see? I can't participate either. I demand that they . . . I dunno, I'll think of something.

Seriously, baloney aside, anyone can participate. If you don't have the necessary license class, you can get it. If you don't want to, that's your business. But don't complain that you CAN'T participate. It's your choice. And I'm sure a control operator would help you participate anyway.

Nice thing about ham radio: there's something for everyone.

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8QMU @ Oct. 08 2003,03:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As I noted before, anything I posted was not meant to be derogatory towards anyone- I was simply pointing out FACTS- such the same was done to me at another point of time- but face to face- and thus showed and inspired me to upgrade.

The problem occurs with wannabes like oij and klu-
they want their priviledges given to them- it doesn't matter how anyone else had to earn them- they feel that they are "special".[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
>....wannabes like oij and klu-
>they want their priviledges given to them...

Buzzzzt wrong answer. It does not matter to me if they remove the code requirement or not. My beef was the Generals and Extras that immediately resort to name calling and CB comparisons rather than just dissagreeing,

It sure sounded like name calling to me when someone lables another Ham as a CBer just because the are no-code. You have the priveledge to dissagree all you want, but to resort to the CB reference or name calling goes over the line... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

what you said: "You could have probably learned 4 characters in the little bit of time you just took to whine about it. # #This isn't CB."

Had you left the "This isn't CB." out you wouldn't have heard from me at all. This is still America the last time I checked, We still have freedom of speach however we don't have freedom to defame others, and when this happens I tend to fight fire with fire.

If you KC8QMU have a problem with no-coders you will have to get over it. You are entitled to your opinions, I am entitled to mine.

As far as the no-code requirement, we will see what the FCC says. I didn't start this debate and I won't finish it, I'm just a part of it now. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC8QMU]

CB = a service around 27 Mhz. for local communications that does not require a license nor a test........ a band meant for communication by the masses.

That is what I refer to as CB, what it is; even though the idea of an hf signal being only propagated locally by groundwave 100% of the time is a laugh; you have to remember this is an idea for 1959 technology. If you think that it is derogatory then that is your problem.

Also, if the term "CB'er" is considerated derogatory by you, that is also your opinion and thus "problem". I consider it to mean a user of the above service, no more no less. There are good CB operators and bad CB operators. And there are also bad hams and good hams, on any given band and time.

If I was as much as a die hard "pro-coder" as you think I am, i would have immediately attacked you on grounds of your "NCI" number and the "73's" in your signature.

I take the "73's" thing as best wishes just like the correct form- "73". It shows that you aren't really all that well rounded in ham radio, but I know you guys that do this mean "best regards" just the same as anyone else, and life is too short to worry about trivial BS. (IMHO)

As far as you who call yourselves "no-coders" i really don't have a problem, like you insinuate I do. I held a tech license for a while, decided I wanted to do more, studied, and earned my general. Now I am starting to study for the Extra. If you are happy with the tech and have no interest in HF then more power to you, there is nothing wrong with that, there is much to do above 50 MC., more than most realize.

If you want to operate below 30 MC., then you have to test at higher levels. That's the way it is. Everyone you hear below 30 MC had to test at a certain level, why do you expect them to have no care about you not having to do the same?

In all honesty, I don't care what they do with the code requirement. But if they decide to abolish it, I hope that they revise the written tests. There are too many ops that don't have a clue what they are doing; I believe everyone that passes a test to operate on HF should be able to have a clue what they are doing, which is not always the case now.

The sad part to me is that if you guys would put half the effort into studying and practicing as you do complaining about the code you would be extras by now. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[AF0H]

Anyone that applies him/herself can get on HF - but you will have to work at it. #It's sad that another fine post of something very interesting goes down the toilet again. #What has been accomplished? #What did it prove? #What will come from it?

I got my Tech in Feb, Code in March, General in Apr, and Extra in May. #They weren't handed to me, I had to work hard and study everyday. #I started learning code at the same time I was studying for my Tech. #I didn't take the code test at the same time I took my tech exam because I wasn't ready. One month later, I did and passed with no trouble. #Once again, I worked at it and practiced every day.

Quit complaining and just get it over with. #When the code requirement is dropped for hf, it Probably WILL be much much harder to get an HF ticket then. #You fellow operators waiting for this day should think about that. #You might be much better off to just learn the code and do it now. #Nothing would be worse than you guys/gals waiting for the code test to be dropped only to find out that the written test(s) or whatever they come up with are 10 times harder than before.

Something to think about....

73 de
AF0H - Rob

[jxs2151]

They thought of everything. #

I think it is cool that they have a handicapped category...

[kg6ath]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W7MYR @ Oct. 04 2003,13:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like a lot of fun for all...

C'mon guys...don't hammer too hard on the "no-coders" They are people too....Let's be patient.....another few short years (or less) #and the Morse code test will be gone. #(period) #


73(s)! #and Best regards's

Rick[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah and as much of a pain in the butt CW is for me,
I will be sad to see it go.

I have been struggling several years with it and am not there yet.

Ive mastered theory for the extra.
Im still fighting on the code.

I feel that in a real emergency, its those brass pounders who will save our sorry butts.

There is somethng for being able to send a message with
2 pieces of steel pipe from the top of a building. I find
this an extremely worthwhile thing.

If it takes me 10 years to master a skill that seems
obsolete, I will still find it important for the reason
above.

When the power is out, batteries drained, CW still works.
You NAME another mode short of a notepad & a kid on a
bicycle!

[kg6ath]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA3RFE @ Oct. 06 2003,13:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Crap! Everything has to degenerate into another code/no-code fight.

Those of you insulting the tech are ASSUMING he's a no-code tech. He could just have his 5 wpm, and that makes his complaint valid!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Im certain that if a tech-plus showed up and wanted to play, they could include him/her on valid freqs.

Now if you had a general or extra standing right there,
the tech plus could use them as a control operator and
then COULD play on the same freq as the rest.

Hmmm, with valid control op, even a no code like me could play as long as i had a control op with me.

rat! Not enought time to build one....

[kn6z]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg6ath @ Oct. 14 2003,21:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is somethng for being able to send a message with
2 pieces of steel pipe from the top of a building.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pretty tough if you can only make "dits." I recommend shouting.

[N4ZN]

Nah..... just use 2 hands. Mute the pipe for a dit, and let it resonate for a dah. Or, if ya don't know the secret code, you could try yelling through it.

[XV2PS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you could try yelling through it[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, but before, be sure:
* all taps are opened
* nobody flushes

BTW, will you expect a rst report?