Singapore and Luxembourg Drop Code Requirement

[kc0jez]

Luxembourg Grants CEPT Class 2 Licensees HF Privileges, Effective Sept. 18, 2003
The Institut Luxembourgeois de Régulation has issued a notice entitled "Decision 03/69/ILR of September 18, 2003, Radio Amateur Services" that grants CEPT Class 2 licensees full HF privileges, effective Sept. 18, 2003.

Singapore Removes Requirement for Morse Code Examination for General Class Licence (From the website of the Singapore Amateur Radio Transmitting Society (SARTS))
The Info-comm Development Authority of Singapore [has announced] that as from the 15th of September the requirement for a Morse code examination for HF operating privileges in Singapore was removed. As from the 16th of September all current and future licences will be convertible to General Class with full HF privileges. #Singapore is thought to be the first country in Asia to adopt the recent amendments of Article 25 of the ITU Radio Regulations.

[KI4BOO]

One by one they fall.

Who will be next... The USA? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KD7YMR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KI4BOO @ Oct. 03 2003,10:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One by one they fall.

Who will be next... The USA? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh!
#HECK NO!!!
# #The good Ol' U.S. of A. will hang on for dear life to the most useless crap they can find until the bitter end. #Cars are a good example of this moronic mindset. #However you can be assured it will happen. . . #Whether or not WE will Ever see it, is another matter. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (abaslon @ Oct. 02 2003,11:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh!
HECK NO!!!
The good Ol' U.S. of A. will hang on for dear life to the most useless crap they can find until the bitter end. Cars are a good example of this moronic mindset. However you can be assured it will happen. . . Whether or not WE will Ever see it, is another matter. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What planet are you from? Cars are great for transportation unless you live in some overpopulated area such as New York or London.

[w6th]

...

Fools rush in where wisemen fear to tread.

Well, at least electronics is here to stay. Maybe same for #our beloved hobby.

Please! #Don't take my love from me. I beg of you, please, please.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #...

[G0MZS]

Next

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KI4BOO @ Oct. 03 2003,10:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One by one they fall.

Who will be next... The USA? #:D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm not for total abolition of the Morse requirement, in some way, shape or form.

That said, perhaps it IS time to read the "writing on the wall." Amateur Radio is SUPPOSED to be an International "fraternity," (please excuse the "gender specific" term; it's meant to incluse ALL) and as such, we should have as uniform rules and regulations as possible. Slowly, or in some cases not so slowly, the code requirement is being removed by many nations, including many in the so-called "industrialized" world.
The way I see it, we (meaning the Amateur community in the U.S.) can take a lead and be at the forefront of the International Amateur Radio Community and take a technological lead, or we can wait and be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century after all the other countries, large and small, have changed their rules.
That is not to say that Morse is useless, or shouldn't be learned. It is STILL the best mode for weak signal work (both HF and VHF and higher) and will remain so. Just don't change the band plans or the CW only portions for any time soon. But the arguments have gotten tedious. I would rather see the effort put into re-designing the license/exam structure, than all the bickering and name calling put into this debate.

Again, IMHO.

[wd5kca]

Oh boy, another code/nocode debate. #

The moderators should put a stop to this insanity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[KH2D]

Oh boy, another code/nocode debate.
The moderators should put a stop to this insanity.

This is pretty hot news, since there are at least 3 hams in Singapore and 2 in Luxembourg....

More arguments = more pageviews.
More pageviews = more advertisers.
Nobody is arguing about the PA QSO Party.

Get it ?

73, Jim KH2D

[n0klu]

I think it's great that Singapore and Luxembourg have droped the code!! Happy HF contacts my friends. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kb3byt]

I find it interesting that the QRZ Name and Places Search
yields the following results.
There are 500+ records matching 'usa'.
There are 51 records matching 'singapore'.
There are 131 records matching 'Luxembourg'.
Is the QRZ database accurate ? #51 and 131 hams ?
If yes...
Do we really care if Singapore and Luxembourg give out
no code tickets?
Perhaps they will learn code after they get board
with phone and stumble onto the low end of the bands.

73 Rob KB3BYT
learn morse code (http://www.learnmorsecode.com)

[KC2KFC]

Maybe a silver bullet would kill this poor old code vs no code horse. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K0ZZE]

kc0jez, why in the world are you posting crap like this to get the no codes and the pro codes all fired up!!! dont get me wrong im a tech,but their is a shark among us.and she happens to be the commissioner of the FCC and she loves BPL!!!!!! and she basically said that she would personaly do away with any stepping stone that comes in the way of BPL. Unfortunatly ham radio(2-6meters) is the first thing in the way.who cares about what country drops what when we the brothers of ham radio need to be sticking togther to keep what we love so dearly.so i know that dropping the code is important to you but it won't be to cool if they drop the code and let bpl go and do what they wish at the same time!!! so just for a while we all need to set our differences aside and join together to fight a cause much greater than dropping the damn code!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[aa1mn]

Oh, how I wait for the day that the United States will finally come to its senses and elimante the amateur code requirement.

Then all this controversy will die a natural death and all the pro-coders will be buried with it.

AA1MN

[N5RLR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (abaslon @ Oct. 03 2003,12:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>Oh!
#HECK NO!!!
# #The good Ol' U.S. of A. will hang on for dear life to the most useless crap they can find until the bitter end. #Cars are a good example of this moronic mindset...</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>Careful, sonny. #Not even in the "good ol' U.S. of A." can everyone afford to buy another car every two or three years. #Some keep theirs as long as possible, out of necessity. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

But I digress, here. #Just great, [b]another Code/No-Code whinefest. [There, I'm back on-topic.] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif</span>

[KC0OFZ]

When is the next code debate after this one???

[KE4MOB]

Ok, next question. After this is all over and the decision is made and the dust is settled, what will happen to No-Code International? Seems like (for better or worse) all their wishes are coming true...

Even bigger question is this...what will be the next hot agenda to be pushed here in the US? Combination of license classes?

WA9SVD has the right idea; code has a place and should not be eliminated completely. Our current band plans should stay the same. However the writing is on the wall when it comes to requiring the code for HF privileges. A number of hams state they do not want to talk to non-code hams, but that may actually be what they are doing when they speak to a ham from one of the countries that have already dropped the code requirement. Personally if the code was dropped from the General Class licenses that is fine with me. It should however remain for those who achieve to become an Extra Class licensee. Holding an Extra Class license is special and should remain so, the extra portions of the HF bands that it allows you to operate on are the reward for the time and hard work that was put in to achieve the highest level of license. For those that do not want to talk to the non-code generals earn your extra and stay on the portions of the band that come with the license.

I have a tech class license. I have friends that are span the gammet from Tech to Extra. We all agree on the same thing; it is threads like this that may very well be the death of our hobby. Many people choose the Internet as a source of information and QRZ.com is one of the most popular websites. (4th one listed on google.) Do we really want the public to perceive us as a bunch of infighters who if we cannot get along with ourselves we most certainly won't get along with others?

My favorite argument that I have read is from the ham that called another an "extra lite" because the of change in the code requirement when the ham took his/her test. I hope to be an extra someday. (I will study the code to do it.) However those that feel that I will not be a "true" extra because I only needed a 5 wpm test should take note that I wasn't even born yet when this requirement was changed. Kind of hard to take a 15 wpm test in front of the FCC examiner if you not even a twinkle in your parents eye.

73,
Brian

[w0tut]

The only SSB that I operate is when I check into the
Collins Collectors Association net Sunday 2000gmt on
14263. The rest of the time I work "HANDS ON DIGITAL"
(CW) #which has personality and more substance than a boring cathode ray tube. #

73 de Joe w0tut

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wd5kca @ Oct. 03 2003,19:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh boy, another code/nocode debate. #

The moderators should put a stop to this insanity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i agree!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K0DLW]

Not on topic but believe this is important. We all need to contact our respective motor vehicle departments and demand that we be required to learn how to drive a horse and buggy, this will accomplish several things.
1. When conditions make driving a motor vehicle unuseable, a horse and buggy will always get through.
2. Will filter out the bad or uncourteous drivers and make driving just more enjoyable.
3. Once we have mastered the horse and buggy then we can move up to the motorized vehicle and be proud of it because we learned how to drive a horse and buggy first and earned the privilege to drive a motor vehicle.
4. Oh and then this will give the folks the right to say "I had to learn how to drive a horse and buggy so you are damn sure going to have to do it".
5. I know there will be those that learn to drive the horse and buggy just so they can drive a motorized vehicle and once they pass will never drive a horse and buggy again.


Flame guard "ON" hey it's a joke!

[kn6z]

I say, smashingly good idea you have there. #Let's have the cnc debate entirely by metaphor/analogy. #That way, we can fool the wet blankets who are always poking their noses into our cnc threads, cluttering them, and whining about not wanting to see any more cnc threads. #Let's keep it nice, with no insults, personal attacks, nor descents into condominiums.

1. Other non motorized modes of transportation can get through just as well, e.g., bicycle, camel, pogo stick, etc. #And don't bother telling me someone said that someone heard that a horse and buggy rig was driven a few feet in a hurricane. #That will just trigger more laughing and jeering from the no-horse crowd.
2. There is no evidence that horse and buggy testing will filter anything other than drivers who can't/don't want to learn horse and buggy. #Even if it did serve as a filter for undesirables, the current horse and buggy test is too easy to be much of a filter for anything.
3. There's no reason to give horse and buggy more weight as a requirement for motor vehicle driving than any other non motorized mode, such as roller skates.
4. Keep the grand tradition of horse and buggy driving alive the Amish way. #It would serve no useful purpose as a testing requirement for motor vehicle privileges.
5. There are many different ways to enjoy transportation. #There is something for everybody.

[kg4ysr]

Yes, soon the mighty USA HF user will be the only one's on the HF frequencies with the superior knowledge of Morse Code......

Yes, I'm sure their use of HF will be vastly superior to the lowly users that don't have the Morse code certification.

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 04 2003,23:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wd5kca @ Oct. 03 2003,19:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh boy, another code/nocode debate. #

The moderators should put a stop to this insanity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i agree!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I 3rd the motion.

This crap has already given amateur radio a major black eye. It's a damned shame how personal opinions can make an entire idea look so unworthy.

Anyone looking to become a ham that reads these threads, probably think we are ALL a$$ holes, and I don't blame them.

If the moderators care 1% about amateur radio, they would stop this crap NOW!

[w0tut]

I seem to get the impression from the pro ax-cw
people that some of these SSB types are actually
very envious and jelious that they cannot use the
linguistic mode of amateur radio i.e be able to
copy 5 to 40 wpm in their head, and some of us
can copy upwards to 60 wpm, be able to drive a
car while communicating up to 25wpm or so using
mobile CW, be able to work some of the CW contests
and some of us in the past have held excellent
paying jobs in the maritime industry, others had
jobs as intercept operators, others worked for
Interpol and the list goes on and on. And dont forget
those writers of technical articles in QST, how many
have passed the old 20 wpm Extra test and some
have a 2nd or first radiottelegraph license. So-o,
is it envy? #You are actually looking down your nose at us CW types when you really wish you could
handle the "HANDS ON" digital mode yourself??

73 de Joe w0tut

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w0tut @ Oct. 05 2003,08:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I seem to get the impression from the pro ax-cw
people that some of these SSB types are actually
very envious and jelious that they cannot use the
linguistic mode of amateur radio i.e be able to
copy 5 to 40 wpm in their head, and some of us
can copy upwards to 60 wpm, be able to drive a
car while communicating up to 25wpm or so using
mobile CW, be able to work some of the CW contests
and some of us in the past have held excellent
paying jobs in the maritime industry, others had
jobs as intercept operators, others worked for
Interpol and the list goes on and on. And dont forget
those writers of technical articles in QST, how many
have passed the old 20 wpm Extra test and some
have a 2nd or first radiottelegraph license. So-o,
is it envy? #You are actually looking down your nose at us CW types when you really wish you could
handle the "HANDS ON" digital mode yourself??

73 de Joe w0tut[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AMEN! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kf4dew]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Come on USA. Drop it like a bomb. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[earchacki]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 04 2003,06http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kc0jez, why in the world are you posting crap like this to get the no codes and the pro codes all fired up!!! dont get me wrong im a tech,but their is a shark among us.and she happens to be the commissioner of the FCC and she loves BPL!!!!!! and she basically said that she would personaly do away with any stepping stone that comes in the way of BPL. Unfortunatly ham radio(2-6meters) is the first thing in the way.who cares about what country drops what when we the brothers of ham radio need to be sticking togther to keep what we love so dearly.so i know that dropping the code is important to you but it won't be to cool if they drop the code and let bpl go and do what they wish at the same time!!! so just for a while we all need to set our differences aside and join together to fight a cause much greater than dropping the damn code!!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
wrongo kiddo #the Commissioner of the FCC is not a Lady. #Better check again. #Try Powell #youll get it right if ypu do. #The Lady you are reffering to was and is part of the BPL industry #not FCC. #Code, No Code #who cares #Jeez this is the 21 century.

KD7GIU
ED #73

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Oct. 05 2003,05:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 04 2003,23:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wd5kca @ Oct. 03 2003,19:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh boy, another code/nocode debate. #

The moderators should put a stop to this insanity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i agree!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I 3rd the motion.

This crap has already given amateur radio a major black eye. #It's a damned shame how personal opinions can make an entire idea look so unworthy.

Anyone looking to become a ham that reads these threads, probably think we are ALL a$$ holes, and I don't blame them.

If the moderators care 1% about amateur radio, they would stop this crap NOW![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
im so sorry your're wrong!!!!! go to the arrl web site and read what their colums have to say quote( Kathleen Q. Abernathy a fcc commisioner has said that BPL IS NIRVANA!!!!!!!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif now with that said maybe you need to do some research before you quote me!!!!!maybe you better check again!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[K0ZZE]

whoops sorry!!! quoted the wrong person but they know who they are!!!! KD7GIU http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 05 2003,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whoops sorry!!! quoted the wrong person but they know who they are!!!! KD7GIU http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHEWWWWW. You had me worried there for a second. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[AB2QB]

Enough already .........This is just wasting space on the QRZ server

[kw9u]

The big question is, will Japan or U.S. be the first. After that, it will be a done deal. Whether you like it or not. If you can make something positive out of it, that will reflect well on your character. One great way to do that, is to Elmer someone. With the requirement gone, you will have the choice of:
1. CW with the same old crowd until they go silent key one by one.
2. Get creative and find new ways to get non-CW hams interested (and up to speed).
You decide.

[9V1VV]

KW9U - I'm pleased to find another pragmatist on this list. CW is all but gone in the professional communications world, and young people regard it as obsolete, which in fact it is. Here is Singapore we need more radio hams to keep the fraternity alive. If CW is blindly insisted upon as a requirement for HF priviledges, #there will be no more hams here within ten or fifteen years.

In my fantasy world I would like all hams to pass the same CW test I did ; 25 wpm on a straight key with a maximum of 4 corrected errors sending and receiving, mixed groups including punctuation marks, for 15 minutes continuous. One uncorrected symbol equals failure.

I love CW and it's all I use, but it's not necessary as a means of communications in the 21st century. That's the practical view. And as you say, CW will be dropped eventually in Japan and the US so it's time to look ahead and stop this bickering.

73
John

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3DAV @ Oct. 05 2003,21:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 05 2003,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">whoops sorry!!! quoted the wrong person but they know who they are!!!! KD7GIU http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHEWWWWW. #You had me worried there for a second. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
sorry again my mouse has been sticking a little lately!!! 73 KC0QME http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K0ZZE]

ok this justs proves that people are indeed narrow minded.lets suppose they drop the code today, then three days from the death of the code they let BPL pass!!!! no one, i repeat no one will be hearing anyone!!!!!! sure it will take some time before BPL is widespread but when it is all that bitching and crying will be for nothing. i want the code dropped too but found a bigger giant to drop.you people need to do things in the right order.i have talked to atleast 14 hams that live in my area and they never even heard of BPL.that tells us something folks, were screwed!! how many of us hams out there are not aware of the shark thats among the guppies!!!! we are all going to be eaten whole if we do not do something about it.well im done complaining. 73'S

[kc0nar]

KC0QME has it right.Why are we fighting over the code issue when the BPL issue is such a devistating threat? Instead of griping about what countries have dropped the code this week, we need to do something about saving our bands. HF, VHF, Code, No-Code, What is it going to matter when all we will hear is broad band noise everywhere. And for those who care I will have my General Nov. 8th. See ya'll on the bands whyle they last. 73---KC0NAR

[n9kpn]

I need a set of plans for a good spark gap receiver as I seem to have no luck with my current one. #No vacuum tubes or transistors, please, I want it to be all mechanical; #and have it possibly use two steel balls closely spaced together so I can listen to and see the zap created between them. #The receiver I have now only seems to receive my spark gap transmitter. #So far nobody has responded to my CQ. #I know I am getting out as the two balls on my receiver can be spaced about three inches apart and I can easily see and hear a spark. I do not spread them that far when I try to receive other stations.

Also, how do I stop the lights from flashing in my shack? #The wall switch is off but the overhead light keeps flashing in rhythm to my CW keying. #I would understand if the light was fluorescent but this is an INCANDESCENT light. #This CW stuff might be fun if I could just hear another station.

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0nar @ Oct. 06 2003,21:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0QME has it right.Why are we fighting over the code issue when the BPL issue is such a devistating threat? #Instead of griping about what countries have dropped the code this week, we need to do something about saving our bands. HF, VHF, Code, No-Code, What is it going to matter when all we will hear is broad band noise everywhere. And for those who care I will have my General Nov. 8th. #See ya'll on the bands whyle they last. # 73---KC0NAR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Because

1) Comment period is closed on bpl
2) no ham is on the "other side" of the debate
3) it only takes a couple of hours to send all the letters that you can usefully send
4) bike shedding is fun

[kc0jez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Oct. 04 2003,06:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">kc0jez, why in the world are you posting crap like this to get the no codes and the pro codes all fired up!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I post these stories simply because they are valid ham radio news. When entire countries make substantial changes in their licensing it's valid news. Apparently the moderators agree as they continue to add the stories. Banning the stories as some have suggested is just another way to try to stifle what I (and about 66% of ARRL members according to recent surveys) feel is a needed change in the outdated laws. This should start a new angle on when and where this survey was taken..and that it must certainly be wrong. To answer up front, some of the ARRL directors and sections have done surveys, and roughly that's how it adds up. Of course the percentage is much greater among non members...as there are fewer old timers in the non-member group.

[ke4zhn]

Whooooooooooooooooooooopppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ! That should make all 4 of those hams very happy.

[aa1mn]

KC0JEZ,

There is every perfect right for you, or any other person for that matter, to post topics regarding countries that are eliminating the code requirements for amateur licensing for the very reasons you mentioned -- it is a valid issue that relates to ham radio.

The point that was being expressed by KC0QME is that so many of these posts have been recently placed on QRZ.com that it's getting to point of beating a dead horse.

That is not to say that tales about this topic should be banned from this site; after all, no one is forced to read subject matter in a public forum.

Somehow, I have the sinking sensation that if I'm too far off the mark here that there'll be plenty of people more than willing to let me know.

At any rate, KC0JEZ, I'm right behind ya in waiting for the code requirement to be laid to rest here in the good ol' U. S. of A. ... and when it does go it will be with a whimper, not a scream -- much like communism did in what was once the USSR.

Chuck, AA1MN

[K0ZZE]

close to the point yes, but not what im trying to say. dropping the code is a good thing for some,but BPL is bad for every party involved in ham radio. my point is all the posting about the code is droped here and the code is droped there realy isnt going to make any differance if BPL passes.insted in my opinion people should be posting about BPL insted of the code being droped cuz we all know deep down inside its going to happen, but we dont know whats going to happen about the broadband over power line crap. my two cent's im not trying to single out anyone or start a flame its just my opinion.
73's KC0QME

[ah6gi]

Here's a list for code-nocode discussions ONLY.

Code and nocoders are welcome to subscribe to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CodeNoCode/join

to have at it.

Both view points are welcome. Please join the list. It's code or nocode only. Send your thoughts through.

[kd5sdi]

This tired argument really chaps my ass. Something that I never see mentioned is the motivation to pass code. It simply is not there for me. The reason is simple, what the hell do I do with it once I pass? I am a paramedic for the city of philadelphia. I am required to live in the city limits of Philadelphia. This is expensive if you do not live in a dangerous area. So, once I study and practice, and pass the test then I could show off my skills on vhf? I can't afford an hf rig and antennas. Alot of people can't. I don't want to hear #### about the forty dollar qrp rigs and the modifed cb's. I am not an engineer or a kit builder, oh and oooh what fun getting stomped on by rude ops running three hundred times as much power. All of you guys who put a five year old icom hf rig on here for six hundred bucks when a new one is seven are to blame for this. I can't tell you how many times I have seen the ad specifically say that it is not needed and yet you want an arm and a leg for it. Why don't you form a club, and make a club station?
The bottom line is that THIS IS A HOBBY. The time and money that go into it are extras and my primary responsibility is feeding my family. So, vhf fits the bill better for me since it is cheaper and less obtrusive. Will I learn the code? I sure will, whether it is required or not. But for the meantime I really don't want to get into one more thing where the guy with the most money is always apparrent.

[V73NS]

KC0JEZ,

Still crying over this?

If you spent the time listening to code tapes, rather than posting to this forum, you'd have your code.

By the way, you never accepted my offer of FREE code CD's to help you study, nor my offer to PAY for your exam upon passing the code. Do I need to double the offer to motivate you?

You wanted a free ride... I offered two free things.
Ball in your court.
Stop being lazy!!

Neil
V73NS
100% CW

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (V73NS @ Oct. 09 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0JEZ,

Still crying over this?

If you spent the time listening to code tapes, rather than posting to this forum, you'd have your code.

By the way, you never accepted my offer of FREE code CD's to help you study, nor my offer to PAY for your exam upon passing the code. #Do I need to double the offer to motivate you?

You wanted a free ride... I offered two free things.
Ball in your court.
Stop being lazy!!

Neil
V73NS
100% CW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will take you up on the free code learning CD.

Please email me for mailing address.

n0klu@arrl.net

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K8YS]

how about this....

a NO-CODE HF license, but it is QRP ONLY... and if you want QRO, you pass a code test...

nah, never mind, the wimpering won't stop.

[aa1mn]

V73NS,

Neil, still got your head stuck in the sand?

What part about the fact that the code requirements will
soon be a part of the past for every civilized nation aren't you able to comprehend?

Or do you actually enjoy being a barbarian?

Chuck, AA1MN
100% Correct

[w0tut]

Hey, had look at V73NS neat web site and if he is a
barbarian I want to be a barbarian too!!

73 and happy hamming de Joe w0tut

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (V73NS @ Oct. 09 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0JEZ,

Still crying over this?

If you spent the time listening to code tapes, rather than posting to this forum, you'd have your code.

By the way, you never accepted my offer of FREE code CD's to help you study, nor my offer to PAY for your exam upon passing the code. #Do I need to double the offer to motivate you?

You wanted a free ride... I offered two free things.
Ball in your court.
Stop being lazy!!

Neil
V73NS
100% CW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
hey, email me to and i will take a free copy of that cd. well i guess you gotta get with the program sometime!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[V73NS]

AA1MN,

Barbarian?
No... Aquarian.

Tell me... what part of 27 MHz contains the civilized operators?

I never asked for a free ride. Never got one. As a result I value what I have.
I would love to have everything I wanted, for free... but would it be worth anything then?

I am where I am due to the fact that I accepted challenges, applied myself and didn't sit on my duff eating fried chicken and watching Jerry Springer waiting for Publisher's Clearing House to beat on my door and change my life.

Neil
V73NS

[V73NS]

The free CD offer was only to KC0JEZ, as was the offer to pay for his test.

Others, look here... http://www.useca.net/morsecodein.htm

[aa1mn]

V73NS,

The age of Aguarias has long since passed, Neil, it went the way of the hippy ... or have you become so caught in the past that you do not realize this?

And just where is it that facing all those challenges and forgoing the fried chicken and TV has gotten you?

More importantly, how will you continue touting achievements that no longer have any meaning to anyone but yourself?

That which does not progrees, Neil, must retrograde; do you not understand this concept or is your intellect limited by that little island you live on?

Technology has left code behind -- are you prepared to be left behind with it V73NS?

Yes, I dare you already have been ...

Chuck, AA1MN

[V73NS]

AA1MN

So, you enjoy being lazy, sitting on your duff and going nowhere waiting for free cheese?

"That which does not progrees, must retrograde" you say. So, your refusal to enrich (or use) your mind to learn something new (which would indeed be progression) speaks volumes of the amount of effort which you are willing to put forth. None.

Why do you need to know hand signals when your car has turn signals?

Why do they want you to learn math when you have a calculator?

Why do they make you take English classes when you speak it every day?

What is the square root of 3?

What would be the effect of an open filter capacitor in a DC power supply under load?

A computer memory location is designated F09Fh. What is the decimal equivalent?

Hippy?
Hmmm, you are clueless as to what I do for a living or who I work for. Also, I am only a couple years older than you. The difference between us... I use my brain.

I know several hams who have mastered 5 WPM despite personal challenges. One suffered a severe closed head injury and he still mastered the code.

If you have no desire to operate HF... remain a Tech, buy a spare battery for the "shack-on-a-belt" and stop complaining.

Don't like what you do? Learn a new skill.
Don't like where you live? Knock on doors in Bala-Cynwyd and tell them you're repressed.

Spare the rest of us your lack of motivation.

[K3DAV]

I just had to weigh in on this one by V73NS.

So, you enjoy being lazy, sitting on your duff and going nowhere waiting for free cheese?

What the hell does free cheese have to do with having no desire to learn code? Lazy people who sit on their duff and are going nowhere, are pounding out CW every day.

"That which does not progrees, must retrograde" you say. So, your refusal to enrich (or use) your mind to learn something new (which would indeed be progression) speaks volumes of the amount of effort which you are willing to put forth. None.

CW was not invented to enrich your mind. #I was invented as another way to communicate. PERIOD! Progress means to move forward. You just want the "Status Quo" because you are comfortable with it.

Why do you need to know hand signals when your car has turn signals?

Hand signals are necessary to know for the safety of other human beings, when the lights do not function. Nothing to do with having no desire to learn code.

Why do they want you to learn math when you have a calculator?

It is necessary to have a basic knowledge of math before you can use a calculator. Without math, a person wouldn't know what the X - + = buttons are for anyway. So the calculator would be useless. Which makes this statement pointless. #Knowing math is necessary in life, and still has nothing to do with having no desire to learn code.

Why do they make you take English classes when you speak it every day?

It is necessary to help educate people on the proper usage of the language. Which continues to have nothing to do with having no desire to learn code

What is the square root of 3?

What would be the effect of an open filter capacitor in a DC power supply under load?

A computer memory location is designated F09Fh. What is the decimal equivalent?

This is not even something everybody NEEDS to know. #
And so on, and so on..........

I have heard so many utterly stupid comparisons, that have absolutely nothing to do with having no desire to learn code. Your points have to do with things that are necessary in life. #Code is not necessary. #It is a desire of many to learn and use, but not necessary. My favorite was about the surgeon who decided he shouldn't have to learn all about medicine, to become a doctor. #Some idiot actually compared a surgeon, to Morse code. #That's like comparing CB radio to rocket science. #Give it a rest.

The point is, none of these statements have a damned thing to do with radio, and having no desire to learn a mode of transmission that they don't happen to like, and will never use.

Hippy?
Hmmm, you are clueless as to what I do for a living or who I work for. Also, I am only a couple years older than you. The difference between us... #I use my brain. #

Wheather you're 16 and clean toilets, or 50 and build Space Shuttles, makes no difference. #And your comparisons above, prove that do not use your brain, at least not all of the time.

I know several hams who have mastered 5 WPM despite personal challenges. One suffered a severe closed head injury and he still mastered the code.

Because they had the DESIRE to master it. #I'm proud of them.

If you have no desire to operate HF... remain a Tech, buy a spare battery for the "shack-on-a-belt" and stop complaining.

Once again here's another ham that thinks he's the king of the amateur radio kingdom, and spits on those who do not see things his way. You even resort to belittling yourself, by belittling Technician class licensee's, with the "SHACK-ON-A-BELT" crap. That statement alone says, you think you are better than Tech's because you hold a higher class license, you know code, and your radio is better because, (Like your ego), it's too big to hang on a belt.

Don't like what you do? Learn a new skill.
Don't like where you live? Knock on doors in Bala-Cynwyd and tell them you're repressed.

Spare the rest of us your lack of motivation.


Spare us the pathetic comparisons of necessity to desires. One has nothing to do with the other. #One you have to know, the other you don't.

OK folks. This thread is worn out. Let's all move over to the new thread about code~vs~no code, so we can continue to make more mountains out of molehills. #And don't worry. This subject will never die. #There will always be a new thread each week, to carry on this pointless argument. #While we're at it, let's start a thread on wheather or not, we should start building automobiles, and get rid of our horse and buggy's. #Or maybe one about inventing color TV. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[9V1VV]

Here we go again. Old ladies hitting each other with their handbags again. Most entertaining.

[kb9num]

V73NS, the method we use in the US for assigning call signs requires prefixes starting with A to be reserved for Extra Class licences. This license requires successful completion of a Morse Code exam, and also grants the applicant HF priveledges. A check of AA1MN's ticket indicates that he holds that license. Further from the dates on his QRZ lookup page it seems he has had that particular rating since 1995. At that time it required a 20 WPM test to become an Extra Class. So perhaps your premise that this person is lazy and looking for a free ride is flawed. Perhaps his opinion is just as stated, that he feels testing for CW is an idea that is past its usefullness. And holding opinions and sharing them is OK here in the US as well.

73

[V73NS]

I am damn proud of my friend passing his code. I am damn proud of anyone passing the code. As a VE, the one comment someone hears upon passing is "use it".

I noticed that the three technical questions went unanswered... oh well.
But he's right, no one need to know those... but thet are required knowledge for some things.
The point here is, while you might not think its important, its on a test for something and you at least need to know it at the time.

Pass it, forget it... if you like.

I'm better than someone? NO. I am more motivated perhaps.
My Elmer from 1976 is a General class. He is still a General class too. He knows more about things than I ever will. I know some fantastic Tech's too. What this boils down to is the op's that want a free ride. There are no free lunches, air now costs a quarter... deal with it.

"We choose to go to the Moon. We choose to go to the Moon, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard!" (JFK)

Rewards come to those why apply themselves. PERIOD.

If we whine about it, the moon would have come to us?
I don't think so.

[V73NS]

kb9num,

Indeed. I looked him up.
I was not questioning his ability.

Listen to 27.555 and tell me what part of that you want to hear on "real" Ham freqs.
Civilized? Hardly!

[aa1mn]

KB9NUM,

Yes, all statements of your last post are true and too the point.

V73NS,

I did have to pass a 5, 13, and 20 WPM code requirement to achieve my Extra Class License here in the states -- in fact, I had to take the 20 WPM four (4)
times before passing which, most would agree, shows that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but, at the same time, shows that I am determined and far from lazy or expecting a free hand out.

Neil, don't get me wrong about CW ... it is a valid means of amateur communication and for those of you, like yourself, who enjoy it and are proficient at it, my hat is off to you.

It is not a skill I wish to persue developing as it holds no interest to me; for those like myself who feel the same as I should not be required to learn this to become a licensed operator.

Yours,

Chuck, AA1MN

[K3DAV]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (V73NS @ Oct. 12 2003,08:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Listen to 27.555 and tell me what part of that you want to hear on "real" Ham freqs.
Civilized? # Hardly!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually V73NS, It sometimes surprises me that with all the idiots (Not every CB'er) on CB radio, that I find most of the DX operators on the freeband to be as professional and mannorly, as much of what I hear throughout the amateur bands. They take turns, use proper Q signs, use signal and readability reports..etc... Those are the guys I wouldn't mind talking to on the ham bands. They take radio seriously, and would make great ham operators. And yes, you will always find a few bad apples on any radio service, including ours.

It's some of the local rag chewers on CB that act like idiots sometimes. I hope they never find their way to our bands. But if you stop and think about it, those people are not bright enough to pass even the simple Technician test. They still think 150% with echoed audio means more power and distance. I have actually asked them some of the easier questions on the Tech exam, and none of them could answer correctly. You don't have to worry about them coming to the amateur bands. They don't get it, and never will. They're happy with their freeband and roger beeps. Come to think of it. I hope the FCC just leaves the freebanders alone. If they didn't have the freeband anymore, they would then have an incentive to become ham operators. Think about it!!
****************************************
To answer your 3 unanswered questions;

What is the square root of 3?

9. Any number times itself is a square root. And the root is just the opposite. ie...the root of 9 is 3.

What would be the effect of an open filter capacitor in a DC power supply under load?

Many posibilities from, less stable voltage, to AC hum in audio components...etc...

A computer memory location is designated F09Fh. What is the decimal equivalent?

Honestly, I don't know. I'm not that deep into computers. And for how I use a computer, there is no necessary reason for me to know that information.

My only reason for not answering them the first time, was that they were becoming redundant.they were becoming redundant.they were becoming redundant.they were becoming redun..... Whooooops. Sorry. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


V73NS, I don't want you to get the wrong idea about me. And if I offended you in my last reply to you, I appologize. It wasn't intended that way. You may think I am cold hearted on this subject, and just being lazy. Let me tell you something. I have been a Comercial radio and TV broadcast technician for over 25 years. I had to study, learn, and pass several test to get to where I am. Laziness was not an option. Everything I learned was NECESSARY in order for me to perform my duties. Skipping any of the studies would have made me a bad technician, and I would be unemployed. But knowing code is not necessary, to being a good amateur operator. I can not learn CW. I don't know why. Maybe I just have a mental block for it, because I have no desire to ever use it. But because of it, I am missing out on HF. And HF is missing out on many potential good operators. There are enough idiots on HF now, and that number will always continue to grow, with or without CW.

I don't want to see CW die off. Anymore than I want to see them take SSB or FM away from us. It's a mode that many operators enjoy everyday. And I am proud of anyone who can learn and use it. Long live CW, and to each his/her own. The CW REQUIREMENT, in order to upgrade your license, is the only part that is outdated. In fact, I think the CW requirement should remain, but ONLY for those who want to use it, and to have access to the CW subbands. Every single person in these forums that have given good reasons to know CW, have made great points, and are probably correct. And for those who enjoy CW, that's a good thing. But -.-. .-- is not necessary to know, for those who only want to just talk (Phone) DX and have a little fun with the hobby. It's just that simple. Those who don't know CW will not be on the CW subbands to bother anyone. But they will have taken the same written exam that any General or Extra had to take. Just no CW.

[K0ZZE]

i like that idea. i wish it was that easy! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif