EarthLink delay to ARRL E-Mail Forwarding

[W4MIC]

This post is a copy of an email I received from the ARRL concerning this issue. There is also an article posted on http://www.arrl.org/ (on the front page) about this.

I felt that other amateurs needed to know about this issue, and that it could happen to them!

Thanks and 73!
de
Mike, W4MIC

p.s. - As of 9/25/03 : 7:45pm EST, I have made 5 phone calls to earthlink concerning this issue, for a grand total of 2 hrs and 10 mins of "on-hold" time. I STILL have not received an adquate response to this issue or how to resolve it.

============
Dear ARRL Member,

We are sending this to you because you are an ARRL member who is having e-mail forwarded through the arrl.net system to an e-mail address at Earthlink.

As an Earthlink subscriber, it affects you directly as Earthlink will no longer accept e-mail traffic from arrl.net. In their efforts to fight spam on the Internet, and using their own internal analyses, they have identified the arrl.net as a
"spam source" and therefore, are blocking all messages including valid e-mail that you want to receive.

We have tried to discuss the situation with Earthlink but they refuse to change their position. They understand that the spam doesn't originate with arrl.net but are pushing the problem back upstream for someone else to resolve. This is despite the fact that they have what they claim to be effective spam filters on their computers and offer this service to their customers.

In responses to some ARRL members, they have also alleged that the arrl.net is an "open relay" which is patently untrue. We have the e-mail forwarding server configured specifically so it is not an "open relay" which is more susceptible to being used to introduce spam into the Internet.

We will continue to try and resolve the situation with Earthlink but an immediate resolution is unlikely. If you would like to continue to receive mail through arrl.net to your Earthlink account, I would suggest you contact Earthlink directly as well. They may be more willing to listen to 2,600 customers than they are to listen to the ARRL.

If you have any questions I will try and answer them but I must ask in advance for you patience as I will not be able to answer e-mails from 2,600 members all at once.

Again, we will continue in our efforts to resolve the matter with Earthlink and will post any changes in the situation to the ARRL web page as they occur.

73,
Barry Shelley, N1VXY
Chief Financial Officer
ARRL, Inc.

[AB9HR]

That really pisses me off. I am not with earthlink or anything, but for a huge ISP like that to block, without warrant, arrl.net. Where do they get their admins? If they block arrl.net, it makes me wonder what other legit mail addys they ban. With all the blacklist dbs out there, they should not have to pick and choose who they ban. Anyways, enough with my ranting. Thanks for the information.

[ka1kjz]

Earthlink simply wants to shield their members from spam, and they do a pretty good job of it too. When I was on Earthlink in 99-00 I had a LOONNGG talk with their spam guru, he seems to have his head pretty well screwed on straight.

Maybe this will prompt ARRL to take action and get some anti-spam filters in place.

We've all heard "its not our service, its admin'd by someone else, blah blah blah" BULL! Demand the host do it or look elsewhere.

It is EVERY ISP's responsibility to provide their customer base with the BEST POSSIBLE service and that INCLUDES spam-blocking, 'critter-checking' and whatever else is reasonable.

IF the Customer base doesn't have a problem..then no need to do much. BUT if the Customer base DOES have a problem, then the ISP needs to take proactive action.

If MORE ISP's would proactively block ISP's that appear to be 'spam relays' or open portals for spam forwarding.. then those who are blocked would either go out of business OR install filters to block the spam so they can STAY in business.

To state 'tis NOT our problem!' or 'Let xxxx do it!' or 'there's nothing we can do!' is a clear indication that they TRULY care nothing about their customers.

The way to fight back? Simple.. VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!

Take your business to an ISP that DOES exert effort and care to help you. IF the ARRL won't or can't exert the effort to provide a quality service to their customer base..then the best way to help them 'see the light' is to go to another forwarding service such as @amsat.org or other 'ham radio related' one that DOES care.

Note - I'm not picking on ARRL as I have @arrl.net and use it. Thankfully, the SPAM I get is handled by my own filters, but I surely WISH the ARRL would invest the time and money to filter/deal with it on their end. IF I knew who to EMAIL, I would do so... but I've not been able to locate the 'who is in charge' person yet.

Earthlink is doing its job and providing a service. If Customers get pissed.. they can either work with Earthlink and voice their concerns and see if Earthlink will change OR they can leave and eventually enough will 'go by by' that EL will decide to do something.

Competition is a GREAT thing!

73

Chuck K3FT
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[AB9HR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka1kjz @ Sep. 26 2003,09:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe this will prompt ARRL to take action and get some anti-spam filters in place.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As long as the arrl.net server does not have an open relay (i.e. wont be a source of the spam) I don't see why they should ban arrl.net. But we could differ on our viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that :-) I would, however, like to see some stats on the spam that is routed through their servers.

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka1kjz @ Sep. 25 2003,10:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Earthlink simply wants to shield their members from spam, and they do a pretty good job of it too. #When I was on Earthlink in 99-00 I had a LOONNGG talk with their spam guru, he seems to have his head pretty well screwed on straight.

Maybe this will prompt ARRL to take action and get some anti-spam filters in place.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, Earthlink may have spam filters, but like all spam filters, they block a lot of legitimate mail. AOL started some agressive spam filtering a few months ago, and for a while, they were blocking all arrl.org mail sent to AOL accounts.

I bet that more spam is sent directly to earthlink.net addresses than to the forwarded arrl.net addresses; do you suggest that earthlink.net block all email to earthlink.net because spammers send mail to it?

I do not want ARRL to install a spam filter to filter email sent to arrl.net because I know that no such filter works well enough to justify its use. If I want to install a spam filter at my home account, I can and will do so; I don't want the League to make that decision for me. AOL made that decision for me, and I lost half my mail in the process.

I am surprised that you do. Can you explain why?

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Sep. 25 2003,10:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Note - I'm not picking on ARRL as I have @arrl.net and use it. Thankfully, the SPAM I get is handled by my own filters, but I surely WISH the ARRL would invest the time and money to filter/deal with it on their end. IF I knew who to EMAIL, I would do so... but I've not been able to locate the 'who is in charge' person yet.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Major decisions about ARRL.net will be made by the ARRL Board of Directors, so email your director. (Http://www.arrl.org/divisions). I hope they do not install spam filtering, as the additional costs, delays and lost email are not, IMHO, going to be worth the trouble.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in.

[KB3DHC]

Just not giving out you email address doesn't protect you. Check out Spam (http://personalpages.tds.net/%7Eslambo/spamreports.htm) this gentleman gives pointers on how to report spam. He also has a demo account setup to prove the point about keeping your account secure doesn't protect it from spam.

73 Alan KB3DHC

[KK5Y]

Unfortunately, a lot of the DNS black lists place URL's and IP addresses on almost indiscriminately. I own a server. A couple of months ago, I found that my IP address is on a black list. Why? Because someone signed up for an account with my ISP over a year ago and sent out spam. My ISP terminated them. But, the owners of the block list put ALL of the ISP's IP address on their list indefinitely. The block list owners felt that the ISP should have been able to identify the spammer before they signed up for an account and should have prevented them from doing so. Ridiculous. So, you never know who is blocking you anymore.

The thing about spam is this... It almost always has to do with prescription drugs, body enlargement pills, getting out of debt, or porn. Very few products advertised by spam are legitimate. What is needed is stronger FTC enforcement of anti-fraud laws. Block lists like the Earthlink list are going to become exponentially larger as time goes on and, eventually, they'll become more of a burden than all of the spam is.

Very sad. I just changed my email address a few weeks ago because I was getting over 200 spams a day. :-(

-Jim
KK5Y

[N8DEW]

Well anyway...
I was an earthlink subscriber once, but got tired of spending http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif 22 bucks a month. So i switched to Highstream.net (http://highstream.net/) unlimited access for http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif 8.99 a month. I get 99% of the mail I should and very little spam.

73 all enjoy life...
Rich N8DEW

Well, I'm one of the 2,600 members affected. #I have called both the ARRL and Earthlink to try and address this issue....Earthlink blames the ARRL....and the ARRL blames Earthlink. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif # I have talked to just about every level at Earthlink with no solution in sight.

I have chosen to leave it alone with them and take the "I'll just fix it myself" approach. #Since I still want to manage all my emails through Outlook, I signed up for another forwarding service. #I took my ARRL addy, forwarded it to my new forward service, then to my earthlink account. #Yeah, it's a cheezy way of doing it, but it works. #It gets to my inbox...it just takes an extra path. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Sep. 26 2003,09:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, Earthlink may have spam filters, but like all spam filters, they block a lot of legitimate mail.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yes.. and the blame for this ultimately lies not with ARRL, or Earthlink, but with the spammers and the unscrupulous ISPs (many off-shore) that allow the spammers' activities to proliferate.


M

[k4wde]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W4MIC @ Sep. 25 2003,12:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This post is a copy of an email I received from the ARRL concerning this issue. There is also an article posted on http://www.arrl.org/ (on the front page) about this.

I felt that other amateurs needed to know about this issue, and that it could happen to them!

Thanks and 73!
de
Mike, W4MIC[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was forced to discontinue my Arrl forwarding
some time ago due to "dictionary attack" spam.
I contacted the arrl and indicated if we could
simply change a character or two on the forward
address this would solve the problem IE
instead of k4wde@arrl.net
k4wde9@arrl.net would stop most
of the nonsense. I too was told by the person
responsible at arrl that this wasn't possible because
of costs, somebody else admins the server, pigs
don't fly in Newington etc. hehehheeh
Your best bet has been suggested in several other
posts. Change ISPs. My ISP is 10 bucks a month
and *MUCH* more reliable than EL ever was.

YMMV

Walt
K4WDE

[KH2D]

Major decisions about ARRL.net will be made by the ARRL Board of Directors, so email your director. #(Http://www.arrl.org/divisions). I hope they do not install spam filtering, as the additional costs, delays and lost email are not, IMHO, going to be worth the trouble.

That's part of the problem maybe. Major decisions about IT issues should be made by IT professionals......

Solution: Store the ARRL.NET mail on the ARRL server, and have people with ARRL.NET email addresses pick it up there.

That will eliminate the ARRL's problem with Earthlink and every other ISP in the whole wide world. And you could keep all the SPAM you want.

Not to mention it would give the ARRL a much better appreciation for the bandwidth/cost/PIA problem that SPAM really is.

I know, Ed. Don't tell us. ARRL.NET email addresses weren't designed to be fast or efficient, they were designed to be another low cost "feature" you can give members.......

People with ARRL.NET email addresses should be outraged that the ARRL isn't doing their part to fight SPAM, they are just passing the buck to somebody else.

SPAM is like garbage on the lawn. Somebody has to pick it up. But instead of picking it up, the ARRL has chosen to turn on the blower and blow it thru to somebody else's lawn. Small wonder any ISP takes ARRL.NET email.

73, Jim KH2D

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Sep. 26 2003,09:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not want ARRL to install a spam filter to filter email sent to arrl.net because I know that no such filter works well enough to justify its use.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I would say that as long as any ISP chooses not to spam filter and/or not allow open relays, they can expect to be blocked and blacklisted.

Consider how much it costs ISPs in having to cover the extra capacity required due to allowing all the spam to run rampant on their systems. Then ponder why they want to run spam filters.

BTW, is arrl.net being overtly blocked by Earthlink? Or does it just happen to be on a blacklist they employ?


M

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Sep. 26 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Even that won't work. When I signed up for local hi-speed access a couple years ago, the very minute I activated my email box for it, and before I even had a chance to give it to anyone or even use it, I received spam.

One tactic some spammers use is to randomly generate lists of potential usernames and attach known domains to them and start sending them out. Sure they get lots of bounces, but what do they care.. it only really hurts the affected ISPs by usurping their capacity. Cheap for the spammer, expensive for the ISPs, which translates to you and I. And if they send out 100,000 spams, and only get 1% bites from gullible people.. that's 1,000 transactions. Profitable venture for the spammer at our expense.

You can imagine how easy it would then be for a spammer if he knew the format for ham callsigns, and that arrl.net uses ham callsigns for usernames, to generate a list of potential "victims" with a high probability of validity.

Another email address harvesting technique is from the chain letters everyone forwards to everyone they know. Most of them are a gold mine in valid email addresses.. since not only do they have the addresses of every one someone knows, since no one trims, they have the addresses of everyone the message was previously forwarded to!


M

[KK5Y]

Well, for whatever its worth, one of the mail servers for arrl.net lives at IP address 216.37.46.9 and the other lives at 209.224.159.62. I went to dnsstuff.com and used their comprehensive spam blackhole list search. Neither IP address appears to be blocked by any major blacklist. So, my guess is that the blocking is probably due to some decision that Earthlink made... Its pretty hard to know, without information from them, if they have blocked a whole IP range or if they have blocked arrl.net specifically.

Jim
KK5Y

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7MK @ Sep. 25 2003,13:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW, is arrl.net being overtly blocked by Earthlink? #Or does it just happen to be on a blacklist they employ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Here's an email I received from Earthlink's Abuse Department:

Hello,

We apologize for the confusion caused by the mail you may havereceived from arrl.net. #In this mail they have made several misrepresentations, such as the statement that EarthLink isblocking all mail from arrl.net. #This is not the case. #Neither is their assertion that this department claimed they were an open relay.

In truth, arrl.net's servers have periodically triggered automated "self-defense" mechanisms on our mail servers. #These temporary blocks are triggered not simply by high volumes of unsolicited e-mail, but disproportionately high ratios of spam to legitimate mail.

In the case of arrl.net, this is due to the fact that the administrators of arrl.net have chosen to take a completely hands off position in the fight against spam, doing nothing to prevent the unsolicited e-mail that is originally addressed to users in that domain from being propagated throughout the rest of the Internet.

While the EarthLink Abuse department does not maintain this particular process and has no control over it, we have explained, in great depth and detail, the cause of the problem and what steps can be taken to prevent these blocks in the future.

In summary, the ability to prevent these temporary blocks from being triggered lies completely within the control of arrl.net. Further questions about how they choose to run their services and the resulting issues should be referred directly to <bshelley@arrl.org> and/or <bgmiller@nframe.com>, who make the decisions about the administration of arrl.net's servers.

#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8DEW @ Sep. 26 2003,10:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i switched to Highstream.net. I get very little spam.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Interesting point... with the spam technique I mentioned earlier, most likely the bigger/more popular your ISP is, the more likely you'll get spammed.


m

[W3PIT]

Our club has its own email forwarding and webmail service which is one of the many services our club offers to our members. #Its not through Earthlink.

Earthlink also does not censor any of its hosted web sites. #It's their policy. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif# So keep the kiddies away from there!

Perhaps if the ARRL got into the Porn business, Earthlink would be more sympathetic.

[AE6IP]

We should put this into perspective.

The ARRL forwarding service is a free member service.

Forwarding service is much cheaper to provide than a mail server. You don't need nearly as much disk space, since you rarely hold any mail more than a few minutes. You don't need as much CPU power, since you are only doing SMTP forwarding, not also doing IMAP or POP service.

No spam filter is 100% accurate. Legitimate email may be lost anyway.

From the earthlink email quoted here, and from discussions held on various ARRL mailing lists, I would speculate that many of the 'defensive' blocks were in response to the recent spate of worms.

[KD5TL]

While I wasn't real happy with Earthlink, I don't see the problem here. While I used their service, I signed up for an ARRL mailbox and had everything forwarded to my Earthlink account. In the 5 years I used them, I never recieved one single pornographic spam email and very little spam at all. Upon activating my ARRL account however, I was inundated in a very short time, with two, to three pornographic spam emails a day, all of which came right throught the ARRL!! There was lots of other spam as well and I'm not talking about Ham related stuff, I could have lived with that. So in short order, I shut down the forwarding service and lo and behold, all the spam stopped. If the ARRL isn't going to filter this stuff, then I just don't understand why they would have a problem with Earthlink's position.

Just my 2 cents.....

Semper Fi and 73, KD5TL

[KG6SNE]

Earthlink is quite expensive. In my experience, they have good reliability, but not so hot customer support. And now this?

It's tough to leave them, since you have to sit on hold for hours, but I saved myself a lot of money. Some service providers that I've used in the past are Express56 (http://www.express56.com/) and Newsguy (http://www.newsguy.com/) .

Both are ~$10/mo.

I have not checked if they are blocking mail from arrl or not, so it might be worth checking before subscribing.

-Beej

[AB9HR]

If any of you decide to leave earthlink because of this. LET THEM KNOW! Maybe they might come to the conclusion that they may have made a mistake.

[w6th]

Earthlink I have had for years and have no complaints for my #$21.95 per month.


It is worth every penny and have had many others at less cost. At $21.95 x 3 is not bad for $65.85 per month and unlimited time.

# # # # # # # # # I will continue on with Earthlink

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # W6th

# # # # # # # # # # # # # #---------

[N2ECR]

I get more spam through Earthlink than anyone else. maybe they should be blocking ads for viagra, credit cards, pe*is enlargements and so on rather than the ARRL. These backward thinking admins really should submit their MCSE certs for authenticity being most of them don't know a pentium from a podium.

I was told by Earthlink that there wasn't a problem with arrl.net, and the servers are not blocking or delaying any messages from them.

73
Joe

[K2MLS]

Earthlink users who are ARRL members who appreciate the e-mail forwarding service are between a rock and a hard spot. It has been my experience that Earthlink is an outstanding ISP. I get good connection speed, the only time I get disconnected is when a download speed drops too low, the cost is fair and it is easier to find someone at Earthlink than it is at AT&T, AOL, etc. Earthlink just started a new technical support chat mode and it's great. My arrl.net e-mail is still coming through, but it's hit and miss. I didn't know there was a problem until I received the e-mail ARRL. Then, it donned on me, two weeks ago three new mentorees were all claiming they couldn't get to me at my arrl.net address. I have communicated with Earthlink and received a confirmation that they are shunting to ground mail forwarded from arrl.net. I've even commented that it appears the only solution is to change ISPs. That didn't even bring a yawn. For the past nearly five years I've received one piece of unwelcome mail from ARRL. Some how the orignator of the Nigerian scam got my address. Other than that, the mail has been only the services I subscribed to at ARRL or provided my address to. I agree with the person who commented on the credit cards, anatomy part enlargers, loans, spy cameras, spy anti spy software, et al. How many of us have a huge stock of QSL cards with our arrl.net address? We're being put in a position almost like having to chose living with dad or living with mom. It's not easy find an ISP as good as Earthlink!

[KD7WHQ]

I was an Earthlink subscriber for 10 minutes.
I was unable to access my mail from my hosting service, as they had blocked external SMTP with no warning.
Earthlink, when I called their customer service, assured me that they didn't block port 25.. Guess what.

So, I am paying the $19.95/mo for one of the divisions of Infinity Internet. Very few problems, and all were resolved fast.

BTW, spam filters aren't worth anything, and internet filters will block sites with information you are actually wanting.

The best tactic with spam is to open the message, scroll to the bottom, click the unsub link, and delete the message.

It will come back eventually, but that's just life on the internet, and you will be free of it for a time..

[w9uss]

To Cancel Earthlink call 1-800-890-5128

[w3wtw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 26 2003,17<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The best tactic with spam is to open the message, scroll to the bottom, click the unsub link, and delete the message.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER EVER click Unsubscribe.

If you do, they now know you're a valid email address and will keep sending you junk and will more than likely sell your now known valid address.

Did I say NEVER, EVER click unsubscribe.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb7sik @ Sep. 26 2003,04:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To Cancel Earthlink call 1-800-890-5128[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
For some of us, it's just not that simple. I have DSL service which, by the way, costs me dearly. Earthlink comes with that package. If I were to go to another ISP, it would cost me even more (and thats IF they would accept my DSL connection to them)! There's no reason to get all in a tizzy about this and post a bunch of flames about how Earthlink did everyone so wrong. Listen, folks, we've all had our good and bad experiences with all ISP's. I still choose to be with Earthlink...even though they choose to be jerks about the arrl.net thing. I choose to take a different route and forward my email to somewhere else, which forwards it to my Earthlink account.

Hey, at least I get it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[n4ems]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

This is exactly why I no longer use earthlink as my ISP. #I was with them for 5 years +/- when I decided enough was enough. #They block just about everthing under the sun. #The slogan they use "Its You Internet" is a joke. # I use road runner now and also have email addy's at yahoo (for the yahoo groups I have) and msn's free hotmail service. #Never a problem with those as they filter out the spam, and, if something gets into the spam folder that is not spam, they offer you a link to tell them it isn't spam and the mail comes through from then on into your regular inbox.

If hams wants to get there attention, than I would recommend that all the hams out there that use earthlink drop there service and find an alternate ISP.

73

Eric
N4DMJ

[W5TDM]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7MK @ Sep. 26 2003,10:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Sep. 26 2003,09:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, Earthlink may have spam filters, but like all spam filters, they block a lot of legitimate mail.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yes.. and the blame for this ultimately lies not with ARRL, or Earthlink, but with the spammers and the unscrupulous ISPs (many off-shore) that allow the spammers' activities to proliferate.


M[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
After reading all of the posts, and doing a little research, it looks like some of the blame goes to the ARRL.

However, as Ham's we offer a very easy target to spammers with our callsigns. All they need is a list of the FCC database of callsigns. Make a list something like: Callsign@somedomain and run in the old spam program. Replace somedomain.net or com., with ARRL.net or Hotmail.com or Earthlink and hit send.
I use hotmail as my W5TDM@........... address, It is full every day. Like it are not, some ham is probably a spammer! The rest on my regular email address are very seldom hit. So the solution seems to be either the ARRL needs to add filters, or we need to add a variable to our use of callsign@domain use. Maybe something like callsignage@domain. Not as cool but a harder to hit target.


My $0.02 worth.

73
W5TDM
Terry

[k6dlc]

After checking I had found arrl.net does a darn good job of
not have relay open.

Mail relay testing
Connecting to arrl.net for anonymous test ...

<<< 220 xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.0; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:38:55 -0500
>>> HELO www.abuse.net
<<< 250 xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net Hello www.abuse.net [208.31.42.77], pleased to meet you
Relay test 1
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@abuse.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@abuse.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 2
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest>
<<< 553 5.5.4 <spamtest>... Domain name required
Relay test 3
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 4
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 5
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@[216.37.46.9]>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@[216.37.46.9]>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 6
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest%abuse.net@arrl.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest%abuse.net@arrl.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 7
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest%abuse.net@[216.37.46.9]>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest%abuse.net@[216.37.46.9]>... Relaying denied
Relay test 8
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<"relaytest@abuse.net">
<<< 550 5.7.1 <"relaytest@abuse.net">... Relaying denied
Relay test 9
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<"relaytest%abuse.net">
<<< 550 5.7.1 <"relaytest%abuse.net">... Relaying denied
Relay test 10
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net@arrl.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net@arrl.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 11
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<"relaytest@abuse.net"@arrl.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <"relaytest@abuse.net"@arrl.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 12
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<relaytest@abuse.net@[216.37.46.9]>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <relaytest@abuse.net@[216.37.46.9]>... Relaying denied
Relay test 13
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<@arrl.net:relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <@arrl.net:relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 14
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<@[216.37.46.9]:relaytest@abuse.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <@[216.37.46.9]:relaytest@abuse.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 15
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<abuse.net!relaytest>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <abuse.net!relaytest>... Relaying denied
Relay test 16
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<abuse.net!relaytest@arrl.net>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <abuse.net!relaytest@arrl.net>... Relaying denied
Relay test 17
>>> RSET
<<< 250 2.0.0 Reset state
>>> MAIL FROM:<spamtest@arrl.net>
<<< 250 2.1.0 <spamtest@arrl.net>... Sender ok
>>> RCPT TO:<abuse.net!relaytest@[216.37.46.9]>
<<< 550 5.7.1 <abuse.net!relaytest@[216.37.46.9]>... Relaying denied
Relay test result
All tests performed, no relays accepted.

[KH2D]

After checking I had found arrl.net does a darn good job of not have relay open.

Nice test results.

Now send a SPAM to 500,000 ARRL.Net email addresses and see how much of it they forward.

Nobody ever accused them of having an open relay. If you go back and read the previous postings in this discussion, you'll see what the problem is.....

73, Jim KH2D

[k4rjj]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Sep. 26 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
You can imagine how easy it would then be for a spammer if he knew the format for ham callsigns, and that arrl.net uses ham callsigns for usernames, to generate a list of potential "victims" with a high probability of validity.

M[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is already happening on both hotmail and Bellsouth.net. #I regularly get email that obviously starts with K4AAA and goes thorough K4ZZZ. #Same goes for my old KD4 call. #Spammers are not stupid and we are probably theeasiest targets out there for pattern matching.

If I were a spammer wanting this info, where would I go? #Ohh yea! #Theres a CD rom available with a whole bunch of good emails and personal info on it. #All in ASCII for easy import.

https://secure.qrz.com/store/products/qrz_cd.html

I point this out not to be a wise so and so but to show it is a sword that cuts both ways. #I know we gave up our rights to remain without harassment the day we got our tickets (and the ham tags on cars too) #I have been a target of a LID/ bootlegger that was obviously typing in callsigns, getting info and saying over the local 2 meter repeater in a bad Beevis and Butthead voice, "Hey (callsign), I'm gonna come over to (address on call) and kick your butt! or some such. #No control op was online and as far as I know it just went away.

It's a shame there are people with so much free time and so little home training.

[KD7WHQ]

KB3DPU..

I've been using the internet nearly from it's inception..

The same legislation that REQUIRES an unsub link, and that the subject line accurately reflects the body has other provisions as well.

If you can prove that a spammer you opted out from did anything more than remove you from the list, there may be a case there. May.

I know of people who have collected on the subject matching however, so it would be likely.

At any rate, I keep doing it, and the spam is dwindling down..

[kc0jez]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 26 2003,22http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The best tactic with spam is to open the message, scroll to the bottom, click the unsub link, and delete the message.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hold It! #YIKES!!!! This is one of the WORST things you can do! #Clicking the "unsub" link in
*most* spam does NOT remove you from that list. #It actually confirms to them that yours is an active, correct e-mail address, so you get MORE spam, AND your address goes into a *hot* file to be sold to other spammers. #And remember too, if you get removed from ONE list, they just move you to another with a different name/e-mail/server etc.. so you can get the same or more mail, from a different spammer with the same message, even though it's the same thing.
There is no filter system that works. #You'll either get spam, or miss some mail you want. #And the worst part is, you may miss a real message and never know it.
I've had the same e-mail for 8 years. #I get about 500+ spams a day. None of which, I can say, are for legitimate products. #I hate to change e-mails because I'm involved in so much stuff, and have printed items that include it that it would be horribly costly to change. #I've just mastered deleting with great effeciency.
The spam problem is that it costs practically nothing to send out a zillion ads and see who bites. #And with international e-mail, and so many various ways to get messages thru there's really no way we're ever going to stop it. #FTC can't pass a law that will stop spammers based in other countries.
It's easy to get a yahoo or hotmail, or one of the other hundreds of free, web based e-mail accounts with your call at the front (K4WXYZ@yahoo.com) etc.. but the you have to log into that account to check the mail seperately from your regular mail, BUT you only have to read the real stuff and deleting the spam can be pretty quick.

[kb5iav]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7MK @ Sep. 26 2003,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Sep. 26 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Even that won't work. #When I signed up for local hi-speed access a couple years ago, the very minute I activated my email box for it, and before I even had a chance to give it to anyone or even use it, I received spam.

One tactic some spammers use is to randomly generate lists of potential usernames and attach known domains to them and start sending them out. #Sure they get lots of bounces, but what do they care.. it only really hurts the affected ISPs by usurping their capacity. #Cheap for the spammer, expensive for the ISPs, which translates to you and I. #And if they send out 100,000 spams, and only get 1% bites from gullible people.. that's 1,000 transactions. #Profitable venture for the spammer at our expense.

You can imagine how easy it would then be for a spammer if he knew the format for ham callsigns, and that arrl.net uses ham callsigns for usernames, to generate a list of potential "victims" with a high probability of validity.

Another email address harvesting technique is from the chain letters everyone forwards to everyone they know. #Most of them are a gold mine in valid email addresses.. since not only do they have the addresses of every one someone knows, since no one trims, they have the addresses of everyone the message was previously forwarded to!


M[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've been through several ISPs over the years. One thing that happened the last few times I switched was spam started coming in the moment I opened the account, before telling anyone.

When I signed up for @home I didn't get spam at first because they assigned me an Email address based on my name, and to date that account hasn't been spammed. I created another Email address using my callsign and the moment it was created, spam started coming in within minutes.

My solution was to not use my callsign as an Email address anymore, and since I safeguard my address, I don't get spam anymore at that address. I have several public addresses I use for such things as online ordering, newsgroups, displaying on websites, etc., and they catch all the spam. I know this doesn't help with the arrl.net address, but it can help reduce spam elsewhere.

What I think the spammers do is like you said, take common combinations of characters that might be used as email addresses, and put them in front of all the common domain names, and hope for a hit and since ham forwarding services such as arrl.net and qsl.net use callsign addresses, they are both easy targets.

Since the formats of ham callsigns are readily available, it wouldn't be hard to generate callsigns for a spammer database. There are sites that daily post the latest issued callsigns online, giving the spammers more to work with. In other words, a new ham proud of his newly issued callsign wanting to make it his Email address is going to get hit the minute he starts using it.

IMHO, spamming exists because it makes money for someone and it's very cheap for the spammer to do. To attack the first part of that problem, if nobody would buy spammer's bogus products, the amount of spamming out there would probably decrease.

If it wasn't so cheap, that would also help. Most spammers use throw away accounts for their activities, often from the free CDROMS that are found on the shelves of major retailers, in magazines, etc. I can find AOL CDs just about anywhere here, even the local Post Offices give them away!

Unless the costs go up and/or income from spamming goes down, it'll be with us for a long time.

My 2 cents.

73,

Jonathan, KB5IAV

[KD7WHQ]

Ok, presuming that the message entered after my last occured at the same time.
By law, these people MUST provide a link to remove you from their list. If you do so, they may not provide your information to anyone else; you opted out.
Also by law, the subject line must accurately describe the content. If it does not, at least in WA, it's good for $5K.

Game playing is punishable, by law.

Most people's problem, is that they allowed it to go for a time, before they started hitting the unsub link. In that case, it increases, as your address IS shared.

Break the cycle. Unsubscribe.

FYI, I had ZERO spam emails today. It works..

[wb5itt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka1kjz @ Sep. 26 2003,11:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Earthlink simply wants to shield their members from spam, and they do a pretty good job of it too. When I was on Earthlink in 99-00 I had a LOONNGG talk with their spam guru, he seems to have his head pretty well screwed on straight.

Maybe this will prompt ARRL to take action and get some anti-spam filters in place.

We've all heard "its not our service, its admin'd by someone else, blah blah blah" BULL! Demand the host do it or look elsewhere.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You obviously are NOT an IT person or understand the situation..

I have been an Earthlink member since 1996...and for those wondering, an ARRL Life Member since 1977....I have my arrl.net address fwded to my earthlink address....
But the problem is NOT ARRL's server!!!

It is Earthlink accussing them of being an "open relay" which means spammers can use the server to send to OTHER domains with false return addresses...this is NOT the case with the ARRL email server.
It only sends msg properly addressed to the arrl.net domain..but you cannot use it to send email to AOL, COX, ATT, etc...

Earthlink has improperly accussed ARRL of allowing open relaying when in fact it is only NORMAL spam addressed to xxxxxxx@ARRL.net and members have their ARRL address PROPERLY fwded to their Earthlink address..

DUH!!!! Its NOT ARRL's fault...if you are not IT savvy, you cannot point fingers because you donot understand the problem.

I can however.....I am in IT Admin for my job and understand the issue....BTW a ham on QTH.NET ran a test on the arrl.net server...it does NOT support open relaying...it only allows emails thru that are correctly addressed to the arrl.net domain.....
and that's it......any SPAM that comes through is NOT ARRL's fault and personally, I don't want them blocking any of my mail.....unless I ask them to! I run Mailwasher as a front end spam killer....its free and you can get it at www.mailwasher.net
(the free one only handles one email account....yes there is one that costs...but its the PRO version)..


SOOOOOOO if you dont understand the issue, then please shut up and donot insert foot into mouth before engaging brain....

If Earthlink REALLY wanted to shield their members from SPAM,
THEY should have closed THEIR email servers up YEARS ago!!
(Earthlink's were open relays until 2000 or 2001!! why did it take THEM so long to figure out??? and why pick on systems that are NOT?!)

No its NOT ARRL's fault......a number of us who are also IT professionals have written Earthlink...and I expect this new policy to be dropped before its all over....I have even cc'ed the CEO of Earthlink (and also Sky, the founder.....it helps to keep in touch with those at the top).....

Now, we NEED to get back to bigger issues at hand...BPL!!!

Chris
WB5ITT
wb5itt @ arrl . net
and @ earthlink . net as well

[KH2D]

You obviously are NOT an IT person or understand the situation..

But the problem is NOT ARRL's server!!!

It is Earthlink accussing them of being an "open relay" which means spammers can use the server to send to OTHER domains with false return addresses...this is NOT the case with the ARRL email server.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem or don't understand the problem either. We've already seen the open relay test results. The ARRL passed.

You are right. The problem is not the ARRL server. The problem is the ARRL's lack of an IT department with a clue.

Here's the email, from EarthLink, that was posted to this discussion by N9OOC. Read it a couple times and maybe you'll understand the problem. Pay particular attention to the first paragraph......

We apologize for the confusion caused by the mail you may have received from arrl.net. #In this mail they have made several misrepresentations, such as the statement that EarthLink is blocking all mail from arrl.net. #This is not the case. #Neither is their assertion that this department claimed they were an open relay.

In truth, arrl.net's servers have periodically triggered automated "self-defense" mechanisms on our mail servers. #These temporary blocks are triggered not simply by high volumes of unsolicited e-mail, but disproportionately high ratios of spam to legitimate mail.

In the case of arrl.net, this is due to the fact that the administrators of arrl.net have chosen to take a completely hands off position in the fight against spam, doing nothing to prevent the unsolicited e-mail that is originally addressed to users in that domain from being propagated throughout the rest of the Internet.

While the EarthLink Abuse department does not maintain this particular process and has no control over it, we have explained, in great depth and detail, the cause of the problem and what steps can be taken to prevent these blocks in the future.

In summary, the ability to prevent these temporary blocks from being triggered lies completely within the control of arrl.net. Further questions about how they choose to run their services and the resulting issues should be referred directly to and/or , who make the decisions about the administration of arrl.net's servers.


73, Jim KH2D

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 26 2003,22:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was an Earthlink subscriber for 10 minutes.
I was unable to access my mail from my hosting service, as they had blocked external SMTP with no warning.
Earthlink, when I called their customer service, assured me that they didn't block port 25.. #Guess what.

So, I am paying the $19.95/mo for one of the divisions of Infinity Internet. #Very few problems, and all were resolved fast.

BTW, spam filters aren't worth anything, and internet filters will block sites with information you are actually wanting.

The best tactic with spam is to open the message, scroll to the bottom, click the unsub link, and delete the message.

It will come back eventually, but that's just life on the internet, and you will be free of it for a time..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't ever hit the unsubscribe that just lets the spammers know your email address is legit....get mailwasher from cnet.com for free and filter your own mail..it bounces it back as a bogus addy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9OOC @ Sep. 27 2003,09:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb7sik @ Sep. 26 2003,04:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To Cancel Earthlink call 1-800-890-5128[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
For some of us, it's just not that simple. #I have DSL service which, by the way, costs me dearly. #Earthlink comes with that package. #If I were to go to another ISP, it would cost me even more (and thats IF they would accept my DSL connection to them)! #There's no reason to get all in a tizzy about this and post a bunch of flames about how Earthlink did everyone so wrong. #Listen, folks, we've all had our good and bad experiences with all ISP's. #I still choose to be with Earthlink...even though they choose to be jerks about the arrl.net thing. #I choose to take a different route and forward my email to somewhere else, which forwards it to my Earthlink account.

Hey, at least I get it! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Get your isp from the dsl provider and cancel earthlink.
Mine is the phone company that provides the service...why would you have 2 pay as you go isps???
Sounds dumb to me.

[ka1kjz]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N9OOC @ Sep. 27 2003,09<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Get your isp from the dsl provider and cancel earthlink.
Mine is the phone company that provides the service...why would you have 2 pay as you go isps???
Sounds dumb to me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Earthlink probably IS the ISP provided by the DSL provider... remember Earthlink is Sprint.

[W1RFI]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5TL @ Sep. 25 2003,13:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I wasn't real happy with Earthlink, I don't see the problem here. While I used their service, I signed up for an ARRL mailbox and had everything forwarded to my Earthlink account. In the 5 years I used them, I never recieved one single pornographic spam email and very little spam at all. Upon activating my ARRL account however, I was inundated in a very short time, with two, to three pornographic spam emails a day, all of which came right throught the ARRL!! There was lots of other spam as well and I'm not talking about Ham related stuff, I could have lived with that. So in short order, I shut down the forwarding service and lo and behold, all the spam stopped. If the ARRL isn't going to filter this stuff, then I just don't understand why they would have a problem with Earthlink's position.

Just my 2 cents.....

Semper Fi and 73, KD5TL[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In almost every case I have looked at, those that talk about receiving lots of spam at their arrl.net address have that address on a web page somewhere.

http://buck.com/call/KD5TL

The spambots harvest ANY web-page email addresses and add them to the list.

When I look for those that say they don't get spam at their arrl.net address, I don't find the email address on any web searches.

It is my opinion that spam filtering is best done by the recipient, not an ISP or forwarding service. All of the spam filters have strengths and weaknesses and I want to be able to choose my own. AOL started blocking what it believed to be spam and for 3 weeks, none of the ARRL folks using AOL got any email from ARRL.org at all. Trying to talk about this with Agony on Line's customer-service folks was an excerise in frustration.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

[kc2jga]

Maybe this can help some of the hams that are having difficulties with Earthlink. (Not a complete solution though)
I have used just about every major ISP service out their. Back a few years ago when I first got on the internet, I had signed up for a email account with hotmail. Then I had signed up for internet service which they gave me a email address to use. I never used the ISP's email address. I had always used hotmail.Yes, hotmail did block arrl.net at one point in time, but had resolved it quickly. Then, I had signed up for a Yahoo account. Long story short, I have about 6 different email accounts. 2 at Hotmail, 2 at Yahoo, etc etc. #So, with having so many email accounts, I have the capability to switch them on servers like arrl.net. To avoid problems like the one with Earthlink.
I have seen in another posts, that some people do not like to pay 20 some dollars for a ISP. I have found a trick with some of these ISP on how you can avoid paying 20 and only pay about $10. This I only know with AOL, and Earthlink. As we all know, AOL and Earthlink and MSN uses software that will let you check your email, surf the web, shop etc etc. Thing is, you do not have to use this software. Anybody out there ever use a ISP that just has a dial-up window and thats it. Well, this is where the $10 comes in. You are only paying for the dial-up connection itself. Not for the software usage itself. That's where they get you. I found this out with AOL a few months ago when I called to cancel. I told them that I only wanted a service that just allows me to connect to the server, and that their software uses up too much of my resources. AOL told me about the 9.95 unlimited plan where i dont use the software and only connect. Thats it. But I canceled anyway.
So their ya have it.
Mike
KC2JGA

didnt know...still seems silly...can that dsl and call the phone company or the cable provider. lots of people get scammed like aol says get on their high speed service for blah blah $$$$s but in order to do that in my area you have to subscribe to to optonline for 50 bux a monthh first and then aol for whatever. optonline provides their own isp and what the hell an isp is just a gateway to the internet so why have more than 1 if you gotta pay..makes no sense to me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ka1kjz]

A few questions that beg to be asked here in all this...

WHY DID AOL BLOCK ARRL.NET last month???

WHY DID COMCAST BLOCK ARRL.NET a few months ago???

Finally an ISP won't compromise their standards. If only more did this.

Some say that arrl.net is just a simple forwarder, well, bigfoot.com is also "just a simple fowarder" and they have installed spam filtration. They have several levels of service, but even the most basic, free, package has spam filtration.

Spam attacks on arrl.net are very easy, the addresses are very simple to figure out... always starts with A,K,N or W, may have a second letter, always a digit, and followed by 1 to 3 random letters. No need for a database, just start a A1A A1B, A1C all the way to WZ0ZZZ

Also, the most basic form of spam filtration, forged headers, are easy to detect and filter. If the return address doesnt match the sender, if the IP numbers dont RDNS to the originating server, etc etc etc... pretty simple actually. a VAST percentage of spam can be filtered out by careful configuration of the mailhost. There are realtime black lists they can subscribe to as well.

I've been blessed with very little spam from arrl.net, probably because my ISP catches them. The only thing that makes it through are the Nigerian scams, since those are essentially sent one on one. NEVER-EVER-NEVER have I lost a legitimate message either through ARRL or directly sent.

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 27 2003,19:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've been using the internet nearly from it's inception.. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Al Gore? Is that you?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The same legislation that REQUIRES an unsub link, and that the subject line accurately reflects the body has other provisions as well.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You're kidding, right? There is no such legislation that requires an unsub link, or requires accuracy in the subject line, or any links included in spam.

The other posters were right.. NEVER, EVER click on the unsubscribe link, or respond to an unsubscribe instruction in a spam. It will only beget you more spam.



M

[kg6jse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Sep. 26 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
[There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in. QUOTE]

Actually, the only way to eliminate spam is to not give your e-mail address to ANYONE, and that includes you visiting websites which collect them without your knowledge. Oh, yeah and don't forget crawlers, worms and so on that prowl the web harvesting addresses...without your knowledge or permission.

Even so, you won't be immune because there are programs that randomly generate e-mail addresses. That's how my 5, 6 and 7 year olds started getting spam for viagra.

Rich

P.S. - I dumped earthlink a while back because of their pathetic customer service, billing office and finally the worst tech support in North America, but that's another story.

[AG6RF]

I'm in the process of moving my whole domain, web hosting, and email accounts off Earthlink and over to iPowerWeb. This issue with ARRL forwarding pushed me over the edge. I'd been thinking about finding a cheaper and more responsive web hosting provider, and this weekend I took the initiative and will be moving everything over to iPowerWeb.com.

I was originally with Mindspring before they got eaten by Earthlink. The downward spiral since then has been textbook.

There's only way to register your complaints with companies like this and its with your feet (and $$http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Contrary to predictions, there are many independent internet service providers out there to switch to.
Look at http://www.web-hosting-reviews.org/

My wife has also had problems with some of the online newsletters she subscribes to being blocked by Earthlink. I didn't think it was possible until I read the ARRL email. Now its bye bye Earthlink.

[wb4jb]

Earthlink offers numerous email addresses to its customers. Why not just add one with your call instead of forwarding your messages?
WB4JB@mindspring.com (part of earthlink)

[n8zux]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Sep. 26 2003,14:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is only one way to avoid spam - don't give your email address out to everyone you know that you do not trust to keep it private.

The only way to eliminate spam is to change your email address when it starts coming in.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That doesn't fly either. you can download for free spam blocking such as Spam Pal or something else, I have Spam Pal on my computer, and I use a private ISP In my opinion I think that ARRL should look into maybe go to a ISP of their own, but that may be a legal issue as a non profit org. or get someone like Wal-Mart, Netzero, or Juno, or Surfbest to say set up a ISP server thru one of these companies and pay them a fee for the same price or if a such and such lease deal maybe and someone gets a percentage and have a Spamware on the CD.

[n8zux]

also B4 I forget I use a company that is not like the Big ones on TV there are good ones as well silly ones, or short lived ISP's like K-Mart that slid into the Atlantic

[W8UR]

Dump Earthlink, and AOL, and any other clueless ISP which throws out the baby with the bathwater by indiscrimanantly rejecting legitimate email sent to it's users.

[n6nko]

Apparently learning needs to take place at Earthlink. If I remember my recent news history, there are many Do-Not-Call lists out there, both at the federal and state levels. These lists are out there to inform telemarketers who not to call as these people do not want to have to deal with their sales pitches. Telemarketers call using the phone lines. Now I call Logic 101 class to order. Telemarketers ->telephone lines/phones->bothered telephone users. Now perform substitution: Spammers -> internet -> email recipients. Lets now do a little expansion: Spammers->internet->arrl.net mail redirector->internet->email recipients. In the above scenario we can equate Telemarketers = Spammers. The do-not-call lists deal directly with the telemarketers(telephone spammers) and that is who Earthlink should be targeting - the spammers and not a mail redirector. I am soooo glad that I am not a member of Earthlink. My symphathies to those that do belong.

BTW, the word went out today on the state HF nets to ARES/RACES members that because of this lapse of mental computing power at Earthlink to send to the state office of emergency management the direct email address to them to bypass this issue. If you are an unfortunate user of Earthlink and use the ARRL.net redirector, then pass on your correct address to the emergency people so they can get with you directly.

[KD7WHQ]

Actually, the legislation does exist, and passed into law some two years back.

And, I ain't Gore.. Wouldn't want to either, lol.

As to unsubbing, my first mail pull today was zero messages. I did get one spam mail later in the day, and unsubbed from that.
See how tomorrow goes.

I'll find the link to the law later.. Got meat to grill..

-----------------------------------------------------

The charcoal is burning down. Peruse this:

Spam laws. (http://www.spamlaws.com/state/index.html)

[n6yvy]

Earthlink blocks nothing! Go to your web mail and reset you spam blocker it's that easy! I just reset mind to higher setting for spam. It's a pain for a while but I hate SPAM!!!!!!!
Bob

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 28 2003,18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, the legislation does exist, and passed into law some two years back.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
While some states may have laws that intend or attempt to accomplish what you say, they are for the most part, unenforceable. For one thing, no states have the means to try to trace even 1% of the spam that is sent. AND THE SPAMMERS KNOW THIS. And there is NO SUCH NATIONAL LAW.

I still say... it is unwise to click on, or follow "unsubscribe" directions in any spam. I regularly trace spam, and almost none of it is on the up and up. Almost all of the spammers attempt in some degree to falsify the true origination routing of the spam. Most of the spams have obviously bogus unsubscribe links.

Heck.. the phone companies can't even make the telemarketers use valid caller ID data, which is a violation of the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

Think about it.. are you going to trust some spammer who is trying to sell you "herbal viagra" or "make your parts bigger" over the Internet to discreetly handle your unsubscribe request with integrity?

Clicking their unsubscribe links is almost as gullible as actually buying something from a spammer.


M

[w1ppy]

Geeez ! Is spam such a big issue in email ?
I LIVE on a computer all day long and I only get a few pieces of spam a day - w/ minimal filtering, mostly for file-size.
Try these ideas:
When you open your mailbox, select the mail you KNOW is junk, and delete it. OR how about this - clean your cookie and internet temp files out all the time, and make sure the name <owner> of your computer (entered when you installed the OS) doesn't resemble your email address...and let's not forget that spammers use sequential address generation software to hunt for addresses; THAT is how they get you when you UNSUBSCRIBE.
A blind shot in the dark that comes back with an "OW !"

[N7MK]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w1ppy @ Sep. 29 2003,08<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Geeez ! Is spam such a big issue in email ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>It is when you consider that the costs associated with ISPs dealing with SPAM are all passed on to us users.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I LIVE on a computer all day long and I only get a few pieces of spam a day - w/ minimal filtering, mostly for file-size.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>I get little spam at the office, for reasons discussed earlier. Spammers aren't as likely to attempt to get into a (relatively) small corporate email system, since the number of "victims" is small. But going after a large ISP like earthlink, et al, the "victim" yield is much higher.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">clean your cookie and internet temp files out all the time[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>This will likely have little effect.. unless you've been entering your email address on webpages, that in turn store it in a cookie.


M

[W4CNG]

I am in the process of changing ISP's and email accounts. My old provider (Juno) was blocking arrl.net email, I emailed them and told them I was voting with my wallet, going to DSL with one of their competetors and was telling everyone I knew on their service I was leaving. $35-45 per month x even a few hundred folks can put a real dent in somebody's bottom line. I got a standard we're sorry it is not our problem, and spam continued, even after I cancelled my arrl.net forwarding.
My new provider bellsouth.net does not seem to have the spam flow that Juno has. Better for me. After getting my domain name and on line service, life just got easier at steve@w4cng.com.
Sometimes change is for the better, even if it comes with a little hassle.
Good Luck to All
Steve W4CNG

[KH2D]

My new provider bellsouth.net does not seem to have the spam flow that Juno has.

Boy are you in for a surprise... #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

73, Jim KH2D

[AF2HD]

I also contacted Earthlink and the problem was explained to my satisfaction. The tech support guy gave me a suggestion
which should help. In your address book add your arrl
address. One of the things Earthlink's server software does
is to check your address book and allows messages from
people in the address book. So I have an entry that
says "File copy"af2hd@arrl.net. It works as I am getting
all of the redirects thru arrl.net

[n9lya]

Same thing happens on Ham PAcket Radio... Someone has a problem and everyone starts rejecting mail... Soon the whole system is suffering.. Soon the Inet will start to waver as Email will no longer get to where its going...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9lya @ Sep. 29 2003,06:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Same thing happens on Ham PAcket Radio... Someone has a problem and everyone starts rejecting mail... Soon the whole system is suffering.. Soon the Inet will start to waver as Email will no longer get to where its going...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And we can all thank those spammers who have nothing better to do. UGH! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KG6RYF]

I'm a former Earthlink Tech Support Rep, and it doesn't surprise me they pulled this crap. I worked from 2000 to 2002 at the Pasadena, CA call center and I saw a lot of changes in the company.

Back then, the spam filter called the Spaminator was optional. You could go to spaminator.earthlink.net, log in and turn the darn thing off. Now it seems you don't have a choice if you want to implement the Spaminator or not. As an employee, they gave us free dial up accounts and email. I quit in 2002, but I've had free dial up and email up until just 2 months ago. I guess they went did some house cleaning; so I'm unable to test out the new setup for myself.

The service at Earthlink stinks. When I was a Tech there, we would actually get in trouble if we toughed it out with a long call helping a customer. The management was so worried about our call times, that we were encouraged to pass the buck. That outraged me and I regularly helped customers on tough issues (and fixed them) on calls that sometimes took 45-60 minutes.

This did not make any sense to me as I always thought EarthLink wanted to maintain their good customer service image. Boy was I wrong. I received awards because of all the compliments users were emailing in, but was badgered by supervisors because they thought I was spending too much time with the people that needed help. Sometimes I had to give quick computer lessons because the nice but inept users were timebombs and their lack of knowledge made it difficult to walk them threw the steps to make the fix. I received many thanks by people who I helped make the light bulb go on in their heads.

The company is going way downhill if anyone is unaware of that fact. We had meetings about how the company wasn't making a profit and all that kind of stuff. I quit because they were screwing me out of a raise I was entitled to on paper by them changing the rules around concerning when people are eligble for a raise right before a review that never happened. I basically fell through the cracks and they were unwilling to do anything. I quit right before they shut down the Pasadena Call Center because they could not afford to operate it. A couple other Call Centers went down. The one in Phoenix and San Jose, CA are gone.

The company was founded on questionable money (Scientology) and the top dog, Sky Daton is a member of the group that the money came from.

I'm glad to be gone from that place, but it saddens me that Amature Radio Operators are negatively affected while the company is in its death throws.

If anyone wants more information on other EarthLink horror stories, another former employee has an expose site at www.earthlinksucks.net . I don't know the fellow, but he has a good site.

Jon

[N5CAM]

There is the start to a discussion on this issue on the Earthlink forum at BroadbandReports.com at this link...

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,8079402~root=ecable~mode=flat

This would be a great place outside the Amateur Radio community to discuss this, and also bring a little light on the situation to others. #It would be really nice if Hams would show up in large numbers and let people know that we are not happy about this (in a respectful way, of course).

[wd4brp]

I have an Earthlink account and I appreciate the spam filtering they provide for me.

I have other email accounts without filtering and it takes time sorting the good emails from the spam every day.

On my unfiltered ( not Earthlink ) accounts, one of the spam items that I have been getting a lot of lately, is from the Democratic National Commitee, the Republican National Commitee, and Senator John Edwards.

It's bad enough watching politicians bad mouth each other on T.V. #But in my email ? #No way !
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc5vkg]

Not much to say about this, but this only re-affirms my belief and use of internet based e-mail services like Yahoo & Hotmail

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 28 2003,18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, the legislation does exist, and passed into law some two years back.

And, I ain't Gore.. #Wouldn't want to either, lol.

As to unsubbing, my first mail pull today was zero messages. #I did get one spam mail later in the day, and unsubbed from that.
See how tomorrow goes.

I'll find the link to the law later.. #Got meat to grill..

-----------------------------------------------------

The charcoal is burning down. #Peruse this:

Spam laws. (http://www.spamlaws.com/state/index.html)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just a comment:

YES, it's nice to have SPAM laws. BUT, all those listed are STATE laws, and thus will be applicable only in the individual State. There is little a State can do to enforce a law against a spammer in another State (I doubt a State's Attorney General would bother with an extradition order against a spammer, but it's a thought!) and such laws have absolutely no impact on SPAM that comes from outside the U.S.

P.S. If Al Gore invented the Internet, does that mean we can blame him for the SPAM, also??? (LOL!)

[AE6IP]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Oct. 02 2003,15http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif9)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

P.S. #If Al Gore invented the Internet, does that mean we can blame him for the SPAM, also??? #(LOL!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Poor Gore. He said a lot of dumb things, but the one most often remembered is something he didn't even say.

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AE6IP @ Oct. 02 2003,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa9svd @ Oct. 02 2003,15:0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

P.S. #If Al Gore invented the Internet, does that mean we can blame him for the SPAM, also??? #(LOL!<!--emo&;)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Poor Gore. He said a lot of dumb things, but the one most often remembered is something he didn't even say.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes Martin,
Al Gore has my sympathy. His comments did, however, get him in trouble. And my comment was purely in jest; but unfortunately, SPAM is no joke. It clogs the Internet with unnecessary traffic that slows down legitimate messages and other activities. And it requires individual users untold amounts of time to delete the garbage.

From the ARRL Website:

EarthLink resolves issues with ARRL E-Mail Forwarding Service (Oct 6, 2003) -- E-mail once again is flowing between the ARRL E-Mail Forwarding Service (@arrl.net addresses) and servers at EarthLink.net. The situation was resolved as a result of direct conversations over the past several days between ARRL and senior EarthLink officials, who were very willing to work with ARRL to eliminate the impasse. “Once we were able to contact the appropriate parties at EarthLink, they were very understanding and sympathetic to the situation.” said ARRL Chief Financial Officer Barry Shelley, N1VXY. “We are gratified that EarthLink listened to our concerns and worked with us to effect a solution.”

We'll see how long this lasts... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

E-mail received from Barry Shelley, N1VXY:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As you can see in the following note from Mr. McNamara, both sides in this
situation now have a better understanding of the situation and have opened
lines of communication that will allow us to work together in the future.

Again, we would like to thank you for your patience throughout
this situation and we are glad to have been able to resolve it for the
benefit of both parties.

73,
Barry Shelley, N1VXY
Chief Financial Officer
ARRL, Inc.

================================================== ===================

To: EarthLink/Arrl.net customers

EarthLink is pleased to have been able to reach an understanding with the
ARRL to allow efficient mail service to be restored. ARRL members forwarding
their arrl.net email to their EarthLink accounts should see that mail now
being properly delivered.

As can sometimes happen in the instantaneous world of Internet communication
it took a bit longer to put the proper people together to discuss and
resolve this than it did for the many theories, conspiracies and remedies,
accompanied by some erroneous and unnecessary bi-directional mild finger
pointing, to propagate from both sides of the issue to the people affected.
Speculation impacted everyone involved and misinformation - all
unintentional - seems to have been much too common.

EarthLink is an industry leader in combating the spam deluge being injected
into the Internet mail stream every day. We take the problem, and its
solutions, very seriously. Some of the major mail handlers have commented
publicly that junk mail is rapidly approaching 50% of the world email
volume, and on weekends is even higher. EarthLink, like most other major
ISPs, is taking stronger steps every day to minimize the effect of this on
our customers and our mail systems. It is unfortunate that the simple and
valuable email forwarding service the ARRL offers you was caught up in this
process.

I have discussed the issue at length with ARRL officials, and am comfortable
that we both understand each other's positions and circumstances much better
than we did before, and that the proper steps are being taken, and the
proper contacts have been established, to help ensure we do not find
ourselves in this mutually distressing position again.

73

Bob

ARS: KR1J

Bob McNamara bob@corp.earthlink.net
Executive Relations Mgr. - Office of the CEO
EarthLink Inc. Atlanta, GA. 404 748-7205 [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

[ke4zhn]

The computer is only as smart as the individual who is in control of it. As an earthlink user myself, I have had some very trivial problems with them, but on the whole, you can do much worse for an isp, just look at AOL! If your email is blocking legit mail you wish to receive, simply reconfigure your spam blocker program, or just get a free email account online and use it for arrl or whatever correspondence, whats the big deal? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC0MIW]

Well now, guess all this explains why my two email accounts with Earthlink receive round about 30% spam of about 50 email messages a day. Heck, they even block eBay and Paypal some days. But, all that porno and related stuff really gets thru. Me thinks they need another game plan!!

73,

Jim, AB0UK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[wa8ntw]

This burns me up. I would rather NOBODY filter my email for me. I can delete the junk I get myself. How do they know what is junk and what is important to ME? This would be like the US Post Office filtering my regular mail. How many things important to me would they throw away because they assumed it was JUNK MAIL?

The way to deal with SPAM is by going after those who send it, not by filtering on my behalf. After all, the filters do delete good mail. My arrl.net address is the only one I use because it is portable. How many real messages has my earthlink account interfered with? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[wa8ntw]

What a difference 5 minutes makes! After posting the previous message, the service took me to the last page where my message went and it seems ARRL and Earthlink have ironed out the bugs (for now). So I'm happy (for now) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif