KD2ANB
08-05-2011, 09:29 PM
Anything of reasonable size that I might use with a small hand held radio on my porch. Is there a battery powered amp that would work? Thanks Ron
View Full Version : Small linear for a hand held radio
WB2WIK
08-05-2011, 09:44 PM
What kind of antenna will you use with it?
KD2ANB
08-05-2011, 10:00 PM
I have a X510 HDM on the roof. I use the radio on this antenna when on my porch. Ron
KB4QAA
08-05-2011, 10:09 PM
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamants/3503.html
(2m/440, 5/8 vertical)
-I've never heard of a battery powered handheld amplifier. Mirage brand (MFJ) makes table top amplifiers. Some have docking stations for handhelds.
-The other way to improve your signal for recieving as well as transmitting is to build or buy a directional antenna. Yagi's, Quad's, Quagi's, Moxon's, Hand held, mast mount. There are lots of possibilities.
(2m/440, 5/8 vertical)
-I've never heard of a battery powered handheld amplifier. Mirage brand (MFJ) makes table top amplifiers. Some have docking stations for handhelds.
-The other way to improve your signal for recieving as well as transmitting is to build or buy a directional antenna. Yagi's, Quad's, Quagi's, Moxon's, Hand held, mast mount. There are lots of possibilities.
K0BG
08-05-2011, 10:11 PM
I can only speak for myself. Hand helds stink! They're fine for local stuff, but using one for a primary radio leaves a lot to be desired. And, it doesn't make much difference what you use for an antenna.
WB2WIK
08-05-2011, 11:06 PM
I asked about the antenna because you can't use any sort of amp with a whip attached to the amp, that won't work.
If you have a good antenna on the roof attached to your hand held I'm almost astonished you'd want or need an amp for that.
Agreed, there aren't any self-contained, battery powered amps like this: The battery pack would need to be much bigger than the amplifier. The Mirage 35W amp that can be driven by a hand-held draws about 6A at 12V, so you could use a 7AH gel-cell (not very big) to power one for a little while, maybe 30 mins or so of "transmitting" time; a larger 14AH gel-cell (twice the size) should last about an hour of "transmitting" time with such an amp.
If you have a good antenna on the roof attached to your hand held I'm almost astonished you'd want or need an amp for that.
Agreed, there aren't any self-contained, battery powered amps like this: The battery pack would need to be much bigger than the amplifier. The Mirage 35W amp that can be driven by a hand-held draws about 6A at 12V, so you could use a 7AH gel-cell (not very big) to power one for a little while, maybe 30 mins or so of "transmitting" time; a larger 14AH gel-cell (twice the size) should last about an hour of "transmitting" time with such an amp.
KD2ANB
08-05-2011, 11:31 PM
WOW! I put the x510 diamond on the roof and it does fantastic compared to the rubber ducky it came with. I'm new to ham but this new antenna does work good. Maybe I don't need an amp as its doing great with just the antenna. Ron
I can only speak for myself. Handhelds stink! They're fine for local stuff, but using one for a primary radio leaves a lot to be desired. And, it doesn't make much difference what you use for an antenna.
I can only speak for myself. Handhelds stink! They're fine for local stuff, but using one for a primary radio leaves a lot to be desired. And, it doesn't make much difference what you use for an antenna.
KD2ANB
08-05-2011, 11:32 PM
Your probably right the antenna is really good and I'm new to this and thinking I need power. Ron
I asked about the antenna because you can't use any sort of amp with a whip attached to the amp, that won't work.
If you have a good antenna on the roof attached to your hand held I'm almost astonished you'd want or need an amp for that.
Agreed, there aren't any self-contained, battery powered amps like this: The battery pack would need to be much bigger than the amplifier. The Mirage 35W amp that can be driven by a hand-held draws about 6A at 12V, so you could use a 7AH gel-cell (not very big) to power one for a little while, maybe 30 mins or so of "transmitting" time; a larger 14AH gel-cell (twice the size) should last about an hour of "transmitting" time with such an amp.
I asked about the antenna because you can't use any sort of amp with a whip attached to the amp, that won't work.
If you have a good antenna on the roof attached to your hand held I'm almost astonished you'd want or need an amp for that.
Agreed, there aren't any self-contained, battery powered amps like this: The battery pack would need to be much bigger than the amplifier. The Mirage 35W amp that can be driven by a hand-held draws about 6A at 12V, so you could use a 7AH gel-cell (not very big) to power one for a little while, maybe 30 mins or so of "transmitting" time; a larger 14AH gel-cell (twice the size) should last about an hour of "transmitting" time with such an amp.
WB2WIK
08-05-2011, 11:51 PM
I would think you probably don't.
If I connect my "big" 2m vertical collinear at home to any hand held I have, I can make simplex contacts 30-40 miles away, and access repeaters 90 miles away, just using the hand held (until the battery runs down).
Usually, the problem with "most" hand helds is once you connect a big antenna to them, the receivers get overloaded because they're really designed to be used with the short flex whips they come with. The only hand helds I have that do not suffer that particular problem say "Motorola" on them and are police-fire-public safety models that cost a lot more than amateur models and have narrowband resonators in the front ends (which also makes them single-band units only, with no "out of band" receive coverage at all).
If I connect my "big" 2m vertical collinear at home to any hand held I have, I can make simplex contacts 30-40 miles away, and access repeaters 90 miles away, just using the hand held (until the battery runs down).
Usually, the problem with "most" hand helds is once you connect a big antenna to them, the receivers get overloaded because they're really designed to be used with the short flex whips they come with. The only hand helds I have that do not suffer that particular problem say "Motorola" on them and are police-fire-public safety models that cost a lot more than amateur models and have narrowband resonators in the front ends (which also makes them single-band units only, with no "out of band" receive coverage at all).
KD2ANB
08-06-2011, 12:14 AM
I'm just trying to make my first cheap handheld as good as the cadillac radios alot of guys have. Maybe I should just enjoy it as is with the new antenna on the roof thats doing real good. I get repeaters 55 miles away. Ron
I would think you probably don't.
If I connect my "big" 2m vertical collinear at home to any hand held I have, I can make simplex contacts 30-40 miles away, and access repeaters 90 miles away, just using the hand held (until the battery runs down).
Usually, the problem with "most" hand helds is once you connect a big antenna to them, the receivers get overloaded because they're really designed to be used with the short flex whips they come with. The only hand helds I have that do not suffer that particular problem say "Motorola" on them and are police-fire-public safety models that cost a lot more than amateur models and have narrowband resonators in the front ends (which also makes them single-band units only, with no "out of band" receive coverage at all).
I would think you probably don't.
If I connect my "big" 2m vertical collinear at home to any hand held I have, I can make simplex contacts 30-40 miles away, and access repeaters 90 miles away, just using the hand held (until the battery runs down).
Usually, the problem with "most" hand helds is once you connect a big antenna to them, the receivers get overloaded because they're really designed to be used with the short flex whips they come with. The only hand helds I have that do not suffer that particular problem say "Motorola" on them and are police-fire-public safety models that cost a lot more than amateur models and have narrowband resonators in the front ends (which also makes them single-band units only, with no "out of band" receive coverage at all).
K8ERV
08-06-2011, 12:29 AM
I had a base 2m rig smoked by an over-volted PS. Ran on a 5W ht into my Ringo, with a speaker mic, for two weeks, got very good reports.
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
WB2WIK
08-06-2011, 12:59 AM
I had a base 2m rig smoked by an over-volted PS. Ran on a 5W ht into my Ringo, with a speaker mic, for two weeks, got very good reports.
Regardless of the reports, you still look like a dog per your avatar here.
My dogs have seen you and they would like to meet for a sniff.
Regardless of the reports, you still look like a dog per your avatar here.
My dogs have seen you and they would like to meet for a sniff.
K8ERV
08-06-2011, 01:04 AM
You wouldn't like my fee. Unless your dog is really cute.
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
W5JRT
08-23-2011, 06:37 PM
I use a Tokyo Hy-Power 35 watt amp on 2m with a Icom V8 hand held. Antenna is a mag mount. Not gang busters as far as 2M rigs go but I can access any repeater in the DFW area with it. So that gives me a range of about 40 miles from my mobile. The little 2M amps are cheap used. There are several amp manufacturers that have made these little amps designed to work with 2M handies as well as some for 440 handies. Usually expect to pay around $1 per watt for these used. If you want to step up from there, I also use an RFC 2-117 (170 watt) amp that puts out about 120 watts with the handie driving it. I have reached repeaters 90 miles away using that amp, albeit with some white noise on the signal. With a better antenna system, (portable stacked 4 element quads) at 10' above ground level, and hill top height for the mobile, I have worked FM simplex at 200+ miles away with it. VHF and UHF like antenna height. The more the better.
W5SMD
08-23-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm just trying to make my first cheap handheld as good as the cadillac radios alot of guys have. Maybe I should just enjoy it as is with the new antenna on the roof thats doing real good. I get repeaters 55 miles away. Ron
A handheld will never do as good as a "cadillac radio", but it can do "good enough". One of my first ham projects was a copper pipe J-pole. I had it attached to a fence about 7 feet off the ground with some cheap RG-58 coax from radio shack and was able to hit repeaters 15 to 20 miles away. It is now on a telescoping mast for a tv antenna, fed with LMR-400. I'm not sure about it's distance limit, I haven't found a repeater that I could hear but not hit. All this with 5 watts from a Yaesu ft-60.
A handheld will never do as good as a "cadillac radio", but it can do "good enough". One of my first ham projects was a copper pipe J-pole. I had it attached to a fence about 7 feet off the ground with some cheap RG-58 coax from radio shack and was able to hit repeaters 15 to 20 miles away. It is now on a telescoping mast for a tv antenna, fed with LMR-400. I'm not sure about it's distance limit, I haven't found a repeater that I could hear but not hit. All this with 5 watts from a Yaesu ft-60.
KD2ANB
08-23-2011, 07:39 PM
Sounds like you know your stuff. I don't know much about buying a small amp for this. My radio is dual band 2M and 70cm. Is there an amp that will work for both these bands? Can you point me to a 35 watt amp on ebay or something that will show me what to look for? Used is ok if reliable seller. Thanks Ron
I use a Tokyo Hy-Power 35 watt amp on 2m with a Icom V8 hand held. Antenna is a mag mount. Not gang busters as far as 2M rigs go but I can access any repeater in the DFW area with it. So that gives me a range of about 40 miles from my mobile. The little 2M amps are cheap used. There are several amp manufacturers that have made these little amps designed to work with 2M handies as well as some for 440 handies. Usually expect to pay around $1 per watt for these used. If you want to step up from there, I also use an RFC 2-117 (170 watt) amp that puts out about 120 watts with the handie driving it. I have reached repeaters 90 miles away using that amp, albeit with some white noise on the signal. With a better antenna system, (portable stacked 4 element quads) at 10' above ground level, and hill top height for the mobile, I have worked FM simplex at 200+ miles away with it. VHF and UHF like antenna height. The more the better.
I use a Tokyo Hy-Power 35 watt amp on 2m with a Icom V8 hand held. Antenna is a mag mount. Not gang busters as far as 2M rigs go but I can access any repeater in the DFW area with it. So that gives me a range of about 40 miles from my mobile. The little 2M amps are cheap used. There are several amp manufacturers that have made these little amps designed to work with 2M handies as well as some for 440 handies. Usually expect to pay around $1 per watt for these used. If you want to step up from there, I also use an RFC 2-117 (170 watt) amp that puts out about 120 watts with the handie driving it. I have reached repeaters 90 miles away using that amp, albeit with some white noise on the signal. With a better antenna system, (portable stacked 4 element quads) at 10' above ground level, and hill top height for the mobile, I have worked FM simplex at 200+ miles away with it. VHF and UHF like antenna height. The more the better.
W5SMD
08-23-2011, 07:58 PM
The Mirage BD 35 (http://www.mirageamp.com/Product.php?productid=BD-35)comes to mind. There is one for sell here (http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?309817-Mirage-BD-35) on QRZ, but it looks like someone has already claimed it. They come up on e-bay every few months.
W5JRT
08-24-2011, 05:12 PM
.... My radio is dual band 2M and 70cm. Is there an amp that will work for both these bands? Can you point me to a 35 watt amp on ebay or something that will show me what to look for?
RFC or also known as RF Concepts made a small amp that did both 2m and 70CM. They also made some of the best quality VHF/UHF amps available.
Here is link to one currently on EPAY. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFC-2-70G-Dual-Band-Amplifier-/260840827110?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbb5328e6
I would certainly not pay what that seller is asking for it. Now you can expect to pay more than $1 per watt for a dual band amp like this but somewhere in the $60 - $75 dollar range is more realistic. I have a friend that bought one of these RFC amps a couple of years ago that is very clean and works "fine business" for $65.
RFC or also known as RF Concepts made a small amp that did both 2m and 70CM. They also made some of the best quality VHF/UHF amps available.
Here is link to one currently on EPAY. http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFC-2-70G-Dual-Band-Amplifier-/260840827110?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbb5328e6
I would certainly not pay what that seller is asking for it. Now you can expect to pay more than $1 per watt for a dual band amp like this but somewhere in the $60 - $75 dollar range is more realistic. I have a friend that bought one of these RFC amps a couple of years ago that is very clean and works "fine business" for $65.
KD2ANB
08-24-2011, 06:16 PM
Thanks for the info and link. Now I can look for something with a little knowledge. Ron
WA9SVD
08-28-2011, 06:14 AM
Thanks for the info and link. Now I can look for something with a little knowledge. Ron
The first question to answer is why do you think you need the amp? The BEST investment in time, money and satisfaction would be to improve your antenna, and I believe you said you had been working on that. The reason the antenna is most important is that it will improve both your transmit AND receive range.
An amp might be reasonable if you can hear more stations (simplex or repeaters) than can hear you, but you do NOT want to create a situation where your signal exceeds your receive capability, as that can result in interference to other stations without your knowledge. While that may not result in WILLFUL interference to distant stations, it could definitely be harmful interference. (For example, if you trigger a distant repeater you may not be able to hear, interfering with that repeater's users.)
The first question to answer is why do you think you need the amp? The BEST investment in time, money and satisfaction would be to improve your antenna, and I believe you said you had been working on that. The reason the antenna is most important is that it will improve both your transmit AND receive range.
An amp might be reasonable if you can hear more stations (simplex or repeaters) than can hear you, but you do NOT want to create a situation where your signal exceeds your receive capability, as that can result in interference to other stations without your knowledge. While that may not result in WILLFUL interference to distant stations, it could definitely be harmful interference. (For example, if you trigger a distant repeater you may not be able to hear, interfering with that repeater's users.)
WA7PRC
08-28-2011, 05:24 PM
Ron,
As you've learned, a better antenna and/or antenna location can often make the difference. A few short stories...
Some years ago, a friend had a 1W 2m HT w/ stubby rubber duck antenna. One day, while we were riding the chair lift at Mission Ridge Ski Area (near Wenatchee, WA), he worked someone via the repeater in Davenport, WA. That's about 150 mi distant. Of course, it helped that (from around 6000 feet ASL) we could actually see Davenport. ERP = ≤ 1W.
Years before that, for kicks, I used to drive to the top of Magnolia Bluff in Seattle with my 10W 2m Icom IC22S + 5/8λ whip. Magnolia Bluff runs N-S. If I parked on the North end of the bluff, I could work into the Vancouver, BC 34/94 repeater (about 140 mi distant). If I parked on the South end of the bluff, I could work into the Vancouver, WA 34/94 repeater (about 160 mi distant). ERP ≤ 20W.
In between, I had a gig installing/maintaining background music receivers for KEZX-FM. Our transmitter was running 35KW ERP. One day, I had to do an install at a grocery store. The location was line-of-sight to our transmitter site (about 30 miles distant), and had a STEEP hill on the opposite side across the street. Using a 3-element yagi, the direct path had absolutely horrid multipath distortion. However, pointing the antenna into the hill produced a clean signal.
In other words, on VHF-up, it's all about line-of-sight and/or antenna gain. Elevation helps the former.
As you've learned, a better antenna and/or antenna location can often make the difference. A few short stories...
Some years ago, a friend had a 1W 2m HT w/ stubby rubber duck antenna. One day, while we were riding the chair lift at Mission Ridge Ski Area (near Wenatchee, WA), he worked someone via the repeater in Davenport, WA. That's about 150 mi distant. Of course, it helped that (from around 6000 feet ASL) we could actually see Davenport. ERP = ≤ 1W.
Years before that, for kicks, I used to drive to the top of Magnolia Bluff in Seattle with my 10W 2m Icom IC22S + 5/8λ whip. Magnolia Bluff runs N-S. If I parked on the North end of the bluff, I could work into the Vancouver, BC 34/94 repeater (about 140 mi distant). If I parked on the South end of the bluff, I could work into the Vancouver, WA 34/94 repeater (about 160 mi distant). ERP ≤ 20W.
In between, I had a gig installing/maintaining background music receivers for KEZX-FM. Our transmitter was running 35KW ERP. One day, I had to do an install at a grocery store. The location was line-of-sight to our transmitter site (about 30 miles distant), and had a STEEP hill on the opposite side across the street. Using a 3-element yagi, the direct path had absolutely horrid multipath distortion. However, pointing the antenna into the hill produced a clean signal.
In other words, on VHF-up, it's all about line-of-sight and/or antenna gain. Elevation helps the former.
KD2ANB
08-28-2011, 05:45 PM
Thanks for all the good thoughts. I bought a Diamond X510 antenna for the roof which is doing a great job. We have mountains in my area so line of sight can be tough. I seem to go endlessly to the north as the mountains seem to be southeast of us. We hit the northern repeater 60 miles KQ2H. I'm using my cheap TYT TH-UVF1 handheld radio only. Thanks Ron
