Think We Have Problems Here in the U.S.?

[kb6nu]

Ham radio is comprised of a number of "mini-hobbies." Some guys work contests, some are VHF enthusiasts, others are DXers. Still others just like to complain about the ARRL and FCC.

If you think we have it bad here, though, just look at this e-mail I receieved from a reader of my ham radio blog. (http://www.blurty.com/~kb6nu) Ramakrishnan is in India, and he just took the license exam. I asked him how he did on the test, and he replied:
<blockquote>Yes, the exam went well. It will take two months to get the result of the exam. Then the local Police will come for a check to my QTH.

After that, the long wait starts. If I am lucky I will get the licence, around this time next year!!!</p>

Hope you got a glimpse of the state of Amateur Radio in India.. :-(</p>

Nobody seem to do anything about it. We have a completely broken national amateur radio organization. Once that organization is revived a bit, things might improve. But I am sure, it will not improve for another three four years.</p>

Thanks again. WIll catch you on air.</p>

73's Ramakrishnan</p></blockquote>
I guess we here should count our blessings.

[AD6XS]

Yeah, can't complain huh? India has long had a lot of bureaucratic red tape for getting any kind of government approval. Even starting a business or etc... requires government "hand-wringing". hi-hi. As long as this is kept to a minimum here, we should be happy.

my 2 cents...

Sam, AD6XS,
Site: http://www.hamquick.com

[kd7ota]

Wow!!!

That is a very long wait!

Wonder why it even takes that long to get approved and see if you passed or not. I guess some parts of the world its much worse. I guess I am thankful for FCC being as quick as they are for checking exams instead of a year! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K6UEY]

One major advantage over the long wait the lids and those who are not really an asset to Amateur radio would be discouraged and give up. The resultant would be a group of dedicated and contributing Amateurs and Ham Radio would benefit.Maybe the ARRL and the FCC should look into their system and consider implementation of some thing similiar here,Heavens knows we could use it .
ENJOY!! Not everyone has your best interests at heart......73, # ORV
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[w5ux]

In the old days, the FCC examiner came to the large cities about 4 times a year. #After taking the exam, there was a wait of over a month before getting the results. #Of course, time wise, things are better now but I am suspicious when friends give tests to friends.

[n3wjl]

" FCC should look into their system and consider implementation of some thing similiar here,Heavens knows we could use it ."


Ummm... if you think we have a problem now with bootleggers put a system like India's in place and see what happens!

Also a lot of good people would be truned off to the hobby.

AND IT IS A HOBBY!

You know I've never seen a hobby that is so filled with people who want to keep others out. I have to wonder why anyone would WANT to be a HAM when post like that are the "greeting" they get.

I've been a HAM for almost 10 years and have an Extra Class ticket, yet I'm "not a real ham" because:

1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack

If you keep this "private club" attatuide up you'll find that the bans are going to be very empty !!!!!!!

I need to find a new hobby...this one just isn't fun anymore!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Sep. 15 2003,22:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One major advantage over the long wait the lids and those who are not really an asset to Amateur radio would be discouraged and give up. The resultant would be a group of dedicated and contributing Amateurs and Ham Radio would benefit.Maybe the ARRL and the FCC should look into their system and consider implementation of some thing similiar here,Heavens knows we could use it .
ENJOY!! Not everyone has your best interests at heart......73, # ORV[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Without the stimulus of international amateur radio, where would the state of radio technology be? #Right now, countries like India rely on the existing market generated by the rest of the world to provide radio equipment...if that market--greatly enhanced by the readily available amateur service access in most places--didn't exist, ham radio would rely on outdated and home brewed equipment for ALL hams everywhere.

I know this would keep all the OFs out there happy, but I think your shack would look a little different than it does now, Orv.

[kg4fmx]

kg4fmx # # # # the though of the code being done away with is rong. it should be readvise to the highest level of achievement.if a operator wants to do code then there should be a place in the fourm for the code. this would be a prize to the ones who want two better them self.one day we might have to use this to communicate with other countrys.there will be alot of other thing to come in radio and to close sertian test would not be in the best thing to do.i am still trying to get the code and it takes a little work so whats wrong no one wants to work.this is my thoughs 73's god bless don't change untill you can see what afects it will produce. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #kg4fmx

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5ux @ Sep. 15 2003,20:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the old days, the FCC examiner came to the large cities about 4 times a year. After taking the exam, there was a wait of over a month before getting the results. Of course, time wise, things are better now but I am suspicious when friends give tests to friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, the FCC dockets are full of reports of VE misdoings.

A ham acquaintance of mine, who has been a General for quite a few years, made the remark to me a few days ago that "If he ever decided to learn the code ...." I asked, "I thought you DID learn the code to get a ticket." He said, with a silly grin, "Well, Ed, it's like this." And then he didn't go on. Like what, I wonder. He recently bought a Ranger of some sort to put on 11 meters at, he says, 150 watts output. (I doubt he knows for sure.) Fortunately, he appears far more interested in CB than in ham radio.

I have heard people bragging about buying their ham tickets, totally unashamed of the concept, and completely aware no-one is going to nail them for it.

It is true, "in the old days" the Novice and the Tech were given by mail, and usually by just one individual, not a team of VEs. (Though these tests were also administered by clubs in a more supervised atmosphere.) There was a higher chance of cheating if you were a close friend of the examiner. Likewise the Conditional ticket was given by individuals as well, and i have always been suspicious of that class of ham ticket. But General and up (the journeyman level, where you got to be a real ham) were in front of the FCC. In most cases the examiner was not a ham and didn't care if you became one or not - he was just doing what he was paid to do.

Though I think most VE teams are honest, there is still a substantial number of investigations into VE irregularities, and because of that, a fairly large number of newly-licensed hams are called in for retesting. That a lot of those choose not to go to the FCC office for retesting is in itself both a statement of doubt and a de facto indictment of the VE team that tested them.

I believe there were a lot of irregularities with the old Conditonal Class ticket as well, for, as said in the quote, when friends test friends, the results are in doubt.

But that is the price we pay for progress, isn't it?

Ed

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3wjl @ Sep. 16 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know I've never seen a hobby that is so filled with people who want to keep others out. I have to wonder why anyone would WANT to be a HAM when post like that are the "greeting" they get.

I've been a HAM for almost 10 years and have an Extra Class ticket, yet I'm "not a real ham" because:

1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack

If you keep this "private club" attatuide up you'll find that the bans are going to be very empty !!!!!!!

I need to find a new hobby...this one just isn't fun anymore![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'd much rather have the bands lightly populated by quality, than overloaded with quantity.

And I agree. When a hobby is not fun, it isn't a hobby; it is work. And in this case, it is work that is not only unpaid, but costs money and creates aggravation. There are many hobbies out there you can turn to, and perhaps, if things continue going downhill in ham radio, I'll soon join you in model railroading or painting. Makes me wish, sometimes, that I liked fishing, but living in the desert that is not really a good hobby to have.

Hope you find something you like. I'm looking around, too.

Ed

[K5UJ]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif <<I've been a HAM for almost 10 years and have an Extra Class ticket, yet I'm "not a real ham" because:

1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack>>

It's not enough to have taken a test in front of the FCC. It has to have been the kind of test they gave back before multiple choice when you were expected to answer essay questions with lengthy responses and draw schematic diagrams. If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. I'm dealing with it. : )

73,
Rob
K5UJ

[N8PU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack>>

It's not enough to have taken a test in front of the FCC. #It has to have been the kind of test they gave back before multiple choice when you were expected to answer essay questions with lengthy responses and draw schematic diagrams. #If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. #I'm dealing with it. #: )

73,
Rob
K5UJ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Make that at least 3 of us.

73,
Dave
N8PU

[K6UEY]

Like a reverberation in the great hall, the sound I keep hearing is if we don't lower the standards of entry, Ham Radio is doomed. This makes me curious as to why, that is never gone into detail when the statement is made. I was never much of a historian but I have had the interest in Ham Radio personally for over 55 years, so that far I can personally attest to. I believe with out doing any research it goes back to the mid twenties, #but whenever, it has lasted for several generations and until recently the entry level of testing has always #gotten progressively tougher. Now all of a sudden it is going to collapse into oblivion, if the standards are not lowered to keep up the the modern generation. Could there be an underlying message there about our population and Society in general ?
As I give it thought, a post that appeared some time previously keeps coming to mind, it concerned an individual who refused to learn code, an his justification was he had no interest in it, and to validate his stance he claimed that when in school he refused to study History, because he had no interest in it . Cicero was once to have said " Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to continue always as a child ". Rudyard Kipling was quoted as saying " One of the hardest things to realize, specially for a young man, is that our forefathers were living men who really knew some thing ". My all time favorite by L. P. Smith "What is more enchanting than the voices of young people, when you can't hear what they are saying."
History has many times revealed that to trade Quality for Quantity is an unjust barter. So why is it a popular expectation that more warm bodies will will cause Ham Radio to proliferate and prosper ? Do we really need to offer the pride of personal accomplishment and desecrate the fraternal bond just to save the hollowed out shell of what has stood over the generations as a proud organization.
Once the journey down the path to quantify has begun there is no turning back as Chaos is the rule.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5UJ @ Sep. 16 2003,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Gee, I feel deprived. (grin)

I took the General and Advanced tests in front of an FCC examiner in FCC offices, the "old way," too. (My first try at General was in the Washington D.C. offices; they really WERE marble halls.) The Extra test was in front of a visiting FCC examiner at a VHF convention, but it was multiple choice so maybe that's not "real." And maybe I earn disqualification by having taken a Novice test given by another ham, not even a VE.

What is this, "Operate like a Pirate Week?"

Belay that, ye lubbers!


Cortland

[G0MZS]

K6UEY

Tell me where you have read people wanting to lower the standards for the Amateur exam. I assume you have CW/morse in mind when you sat it? If so what makes you think that CW/morse is the high standard setter?

Dont flatter yourself, CW/morse is not all that and does not make you all that.

[WA7NIW]

"Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[N1XHF]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G0MZS @ Sep. 16 2003,16http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K6UEY

Tell me where you have read people wanting to lower the standards for the Amateur exam. I assume you have CW/morse in mind when you sat it? If so what makes you think that CW/morse is the high standard setter?

Dont flatter yourself, CW/morse is not all that and does not make you all that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree! I don't see where code has made "Better Hams" than the next person. I have a lot of friends that are Pro-Code and the only valid reason they can come up with is that "Knowledge is power". No knowledge is not power, you only gain power if you know how to use it as I tell them on a daily basis a good example is I know hams that have passed the code test have extra class tickets but yet they bring their equipment to myself to be fixed? Yeah bringing their equipment to a NO CODER to either have their finals replaced or wire a mic or have the tubes replaced and neutralized in their Heathkit DX-100 am transmitters just so I can listen to them go down on the 80 meter Am window and make fools of themselves. Sometimes I wonder why I even want to socialize with most hams and for the most part due to the "Gordon West Study Guide for Monkeys" I have lost intrest in even being on VHF/UHF and it's not so much about the quality of the personalities of the folks that are now getting their tickets its about their general knowledge of our hobby most hams including those who hold their general and extra class tickets have no clue about general electronics theory and don't even know how to put a pl-259 on a piece of coax (ahhhh what'z a reducer..duhhh) So I think our tests need to be more complex than what they are now. I'm not asking anyone to be a genius but at least have a clue to what's going on. And now since WRC '03 the IARU has also concluded the morse code testing should be eliminated. So it's just a matter of time before code is taken from our testing as well. So whats next? are we going to continue to point fingers at each other and blame the NO-Coders for the dumbing down of "OUR HOBBY" as Pro Coders would say or... The PRO-Coders are nothing but a bunch of arogant out of date relics as the NO-Coders would say. I would like to point out that ham radio is all of "OUR HOBBIES" and if we all don't get with the program and pull together our hobby as is good as dead! # #

Remember Knowledge is only good if you know how to use it!

just a little disclaimer.... my message was not for everyone there are a lot of respectable hams that just want to see our hobby continue in a good way and I mean't no disrespect. Those who this is directed at.....YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

[K7NIK]

Took my Test in April 1994 and didn't get my ticket until July 10th 1994, that Ham in India shouldn't complain about only taking 2 months to get his ticket !!!!









Nick/K7NIk

[n5xxm]

welp, guys, having worked with a gent from india, and having had a few indian friends, directly from india, that sent there money back "home" to help out the family, and having known one of these guys that got his "ticket" in 2 weeks, i do not believe this 2 YEAR period, i have known one indian person that said he was able to hurry things along with monitary contributions to the correct indian government officials, and this you CAN NOT DO with our federal communication commission, or our great VE teams in this country, there are probably some out there that try it, but dont get by with it for long, so, dont knock india, and sure as heck dont think you are any better or worse with our fcc.

its just a different thing, no better or worse, if it were so bad there and so much better here, dont you think ALL these people would be doing the paperwork to come over here?!?!?!

just my thought....

[K4YZ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3wjl @ Sep. 16 2003,07:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">" FCC should look into their system and consider implementation of some thing similiar here,Heavens knows we could use it ."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
QUOTE
Ummm... if you think we have a problem now with bootleggers put a system like India's in place and see what happens!
UNQUOTE

I don't think so...They tend to incarcerate lawbreakers and worry about which of thier "civil rights" were violated at the trial...Whenever THAT happens.

QUOTE
AND IT IS A HOBBY!
UNQUOTE

Yelling won't make your point any more or less valid.

This is the Amateur Radio SERVICE. Yes, the majority of people who are licensed in it use it as a hobby, howevr there are certain basic principles that the FCC expects the Amateur Service to fulfill, and "having fun" isn't one of them.

QUOTE
You know I've never seen a hobby that is so filled with people who want to keep others out. I have to wonder why anyone would WANT to be a HAM when post like that are the "greeting" they get.
UNQUOTE

I wonder what disillusioning event occured in your Ham Radio "career" to elicit such an assertion.

QUOTE
I've been a HAM for almost 10 years and have an Extra Class ticket, yet I'm "not a real ham" because:

1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack
UNQUOTE

Whew...

A lot of self-victimization there.

I've been an Amateur licensee for over THIRTY years. I have used it to make friends (both in person and on-the-air) in all states of the Union. I was never precluded from participation in ANY aspect of this "hobby" due to the class of license I held, Morse Code proficiency, the number of (or lack of) solid state devices in the device I was talking on, nor of the number of years I ahd been on the air.

And as for my chronological age, I have probably been more "accepted" in Amateur Radio than in many other pursuits I have endeavoured.

QUOTE
If you keep this "private club" attatuide up you'll find that the bans are going to be very empty !!!!!!!
UNQUOTE

That's strange...there's almost 60% more Amateurs now than when I was first licensed...Don't look like it's gonna be empty any time soon.

QUOTE
I need to find a new hobby...this one just isn't fun anymore!
UNQUOTE

Thanks God we're in America, huh...?!?! I am sure you'll find a lot of other pursuits in which you can victimize yourself.

Enjoy.

Steve, K4YZ

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G0MZS @ Sep. 16 2003,16:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tell me where you have read people wanting to lower the standards for the Amateur exam. I assume you have CW/morse in mind when you sat it? If so what makes you think that CW/morse is the high standard setter?

Dont flatter yourself, CW/morse is not all that and does not make you all that.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Amen!

As was pointed out on another thread right here at good old QRZ.com, the infamous K1MAN held an Advanced license at one time... therefore he had to have passed a 13WPM Morse test. Sure turned him into a wonderful operator, didn't it?

Are there jerks and lids among no-code techs? Absolutely. Are there jerks and lids among 20WPM Extras? Of course there are. No matter what group of human beings you look at, you will find a certain percentage of jerks. Morse testing does not, and indeed cannot, stop that.

I know! Let's replace the Morse test with a psych test! Have each prospective ham spend a certain amount of time with a psychiatrist or psychologist and let them determine if he/she will be an asset to the airwaves. Sure would help cut down on DX pileups, cause who in their right mind would want to go through that?

[n3wjl]

K4YZ - get a life and stop taking everything so seriously.

[sdass]

The less one talks about amateur radio licensing in India, the better. It's PATHETIC! though clear laws & guidelines exists, the licensing authority, which's the ministry of communications (now gloriously renamed ministry of IT & posts), isn't too keen to promote it. reasons could be varied and many. only it may know what those reasons are (usually one dept. doesn't know what another dept. is doing though they may be within the same ministry!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. getting a ticket in 2-3 months is GREAT and one should consider him/herself very lucky! Even getting a background check done by the police for a passport takes more time than that! Although the same rules & laws should apply throughout the country, it isn't so: ham radio enthusiasts from the northeastern region (comprising of 7 states: Assam, Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Mizoram, Arunachal Pradesh & Tripura) of the country are the worst sufferers as far as my knowledge goes. There's is just one effective test centre for the entire region and no licenses have been issued since 1991. Guys like me who took the tests in 1991 were informed in writing by the officer of the testing centre about passing the same after about a fortnight. We were asked to contact the concerned section at the ministry in new delhi for the ticket. Since then, inspite of numerous letters and personal visits, we have still not been issued our tickets nor have we been informed as to why the same were being held back. The ministry's response has been complete SILENCE. My guess's it was spending time where the money was: private companies' licenses & tenders for equipment are worth big bucks (both under & over the table!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif, whereas all it gets from an individual applying for an amateur radio license is a couple of rupees!
India's n.e. region sits on an active seismic zone, experiences severe annual flooding due to heavy rainfall (place which holds the record for heaviest rainfall in the world is here in this region), roads're cut off for days due to landslides, bridges washed away and in many of these natural calamities and disasters amateur radio can play a vital role but does the govt. care? One wouldn't think so. The few amateur radio organizations that exists in the country, all claim to be the sole national representative for amateur radio but they are nowhere near to being what the ARRL is in the USA: one coherent national body. There were and are a few sincere individuals working towards the betterment of amateur radio in india but their numbers are few & scattered. Inspite of such a bleak scenario of the n.e. region, i'm an optimist and have hope that things will improve and we all will get our tickets & i'll be on the air before i'm too old to pound the brass!

[KB9ERU]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N8PU @ Sep. 16 2003,14http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack>>

It's not enough to have taken a test in front of the FCC. #It has to have been the kind of test they gave back before multiple choice when you were expected to answer essay questions with lengthy responses and draw schematic diagrams. #If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. #I'm dealing with it. #: )

73,
Rob
K5UJ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Make that at least 3 of us.

73,
Dave
N8PU[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Makes 4 of us.

73,
Mick
KB9ERU

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5UJ @ Sep. 16 2003,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've been a HAM for almost 10 years and have an Extra Class ticket, yet I'm "not a real ham" because:

1. I didn't take my test in front of the FCC
2. I only had to pass a 5wpm CW test
3. I am under 70 years old
5. I have not been in the hobby for 40+ years
6. My radio is solid state
7. I have a PC in my "shack"
8. My shack isn't a shack>>

It's not enough to have taken a test in front of the FCC. #It has to have been the kind of test they gave back before multiple choice when you were expected to answer essay questions with lengthy responses and draw schematic diagrams. #If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. #I'm dealing with it. #: )[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Me five! I have my General and my VE badge, as well as my own vanity call, and yet I am not a "real ham" to some of these old fogeys, for the same reasons.

[2e1rdx]

I seem to be missing something here http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif the part about lowering the standards and giving something for nothing !!! now maybe I got this wrong but I thought that CW was introduced into the exam because the amateur bands had marine traffic sharing and that you needed to be able to read the CW so that if the frequency was needed you would understand that you must qsy or qrt !!!!! so that more importent traffic could use that frequency http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif? now that the bands are no longer shared there is no longer a need to pass the CW test !!!! from my experience in the UK the vast majority of new code free amateursw are doing a great job excellent operating practice and an exceptional ammount of enthusiasm which is far more important an attribute to amateur radio than being forced to learn something you will never use again CW !!! I for one fully intend to learn and use CW but because I want to I also enjoy rtty and psk31 but I don't think everybody should have to learn to operate these modes !!! but those who choose not to I believe are missing out on a lot of fun the same as those who choose not to operate CW are probably missing lots of fun and much rare DX but please attach more importance to manners and good operating practice as these are the real threat to this great hobby not the dropping of the CW exam
73 Ian 2E1RDX (Derby England)

Obtaining an amatuer radio licence is and should continue to be an earned
priveledge. As with any priveledge a degree of responsibility is required.
With respect to worldwide amatuer radio communications this responsibility
is mandated by a set of rules and protocols.established to create order and
prevent chaos and confusion on the limited radio frequency spectrum provided
to many thousands of "Hams" around the world. Demonstrating the discipline
to learn and the ability to copy Morse code at the minimum of 5 wpm is an
indication of one's ability and discipline to adhere to the rules and
protocols that have been proven effective in maintaining order in the
amatuer radio community. There will always be those that claim it is too
difficult to become qualified; for any endeavor. We should not lower the
licencing requirements for H.F. radio operation, but rather, actively
encourage and assist those with a sincere interest in becoming qualified to
enjoy the rewards of the fascinating and multi faceted hobby that is Amatuer
radio.

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn2207 @ Sep. 17 2003,17:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Obtaining an amatuer radio licence is and should continue to be an earned
priveledge. As with any priveledge a degree of responsibility is required.
With respect to worldwide amatuer radio communications this responsibility
is mandated by a set of rules and protocols.established to create order and
prevent chaos and confusion on the limited radio frequency spectrum provided
to many thousands of "Hams" around the world. Demonstrating the discipline
to learn and the ability to copy Morse code at the minimum of 5 wpm is an
indication of one's ability and discipline to adhere to the rules and
protocols that have been proven effective in maintaining order in the
amatuer radio community. There will always be those that claim it is too
difficult to become qualified; #for any endeavor. We should not lower the
licencing requirements for H.F. radio operation, but rather, actively
encourage and assist those with a sincere interest in becoming qualified to
enjoy the rewards of the fascinating and multi faceted hobby that is Amatuer
radio.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmmm... why is my troll detector going off at that message?

Could it be...

No call sign visible on the message or in profile (I checked).

Total Posts (listed in profile): 1

Date joined is blank (which probably means today)

Yep, I'd say the troll meter is perfectly calibrated and working fine.

[kb7rhi]

Ham radio is a great hobby and also is great for public service. #I have helped two other people to get into the hobby and I have worked to set up emergency packet radio stations. #I belong to a local Ares/Races group and also am a volunteer with my local fire department. #My interest in the code is not very high and yet I do have an interest in HF emergency communications. #I know that there is a school of thought that says that only people who have learned the code should have HF access. #I do believe that there is now other digital modes that do take up less bandwidth than SSB and if I don't bother the die hard code lovers in their section of the bands....
Oh it was just a thought, sometimes when I talk about this subject on a local VHF repeater, something very interesting begins to happen. #My opinion does not seem to matter and the die hard code people start sounding down right rude and belittleing. #The good news is that there is some great HF folks who just enjoy talking about the techical aspects of amateur radio service and don't seem to mind if you have or have not climbed the same mountain that they once climbed-they actually enjoy Ham Radio as much as I do and love to share their wisdom.

[ad5bk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Sep. 16 2003,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Though I think most VE teams are honest, there is still a substantial number of investigations into VE irregularities, and because of that, a fairly large number of newly-licensed hams are called in for retesting. #That a lot of those choose not to go to the FCC office for retesting is in itself both a statement of doubt and a de facto indictment of the VE team that tested them. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't feel this shows we've got a problem with the VE testing system. What the FCC investigations show is - the system is working! VE testers beware, if you're playing around the edges and trying to cheat the system, the system (FCC) will eventually find out and we've all seen some of the results.

'nuff for me. I am a VE examiner and point out that there is a TEAM of VE volunteers that administer the tests, not just ONE person.

Frank

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ad5bk @ Sep. 18 2003,00:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Sep. 16 2003,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Though I think most VE teams are honest, there is still a substantial number of investigations into VE irregularities, and because of that, a fairly large number of newly-licensed hams are called in for retesting. That a lot of those choose not to go to the FCC office for retesting is in itself both a statement of doubt and a de facto indictment of the VE team that tested them. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I don't feel this shows we've got a problem with the VE testing system. What the FCC investigations show is - the system is working! VE testers beware, if you're playing around the edges and trying to cheat the system, the system (FCC) will eventually find out and we've all seen some of the results.

'nuff for me. I am a VE examiner and point out that there is a TEAM of VE volunteers that administer the tests, not just ONE person.

Frank[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am also a VE and work with four different teams. I don't know any crooked VEs, and for that matter have never been asked to bend the rules by anyone.

I am only aware of a small number of retests, mainly around some high profile cases with a few teams. Where would I go to find out how common this is?

[w5tfw]

Gentlemen,
After reading all your replys and complaints. I thank God I have a newborn at home. because when you come to visit I'll have plenty of diapers and pacifiers for all.
oh and lets not forget the crying towels. Suck it up !
its just a hobby.

Joey w5tfw http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kd5ueo]

hi, just read n3wjl an w5htw remarks, i really do agree with them, i`ve hat my tech almost a year now an dont beleive i`m going to go further, hell with it, got to be better an more enjoyable hobbies out there, i`m under 70, just got into this an n0w ready to get out, to many cliques, i wasn`t raised like that..........rick

[k5co]

All right guys! New rule. From now on, everyone uses their "spell-checker" so that we don't look like a hobby of dumb dodos.

KD5PSH

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5PSH @ Sep. 18 2003,10:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All right guys! New rule. From now on, everyone uses their "spell-checker" so that we don't look like a hobby of dumb dodos.

KD5PSH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Too Late for that! KD5PSH, the appearance is already there. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5ux @ Sep. 15 2003,20:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the old days, the FCC examiner came to the large cities about 4 times a year. #After taking the exam, there was a wait of over a month before getting the results. #Of course, time wise, things are better now but I am suspicious when friends give tests to friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Exams must be given by at least three VEs who are qualified to administer the exam in question. One is not allowed to administer an exam if one has a personal relationship with the candidate.

If you are aware of VEs who fail to meet the requirements, rather than giving all VEs an undeserved bad report, why don't you take the effort to file a complaint with the FCC?

Or do you simply get a kick out of attempting to smear the reputation of people who are volunteering their time to aid the service?

[n0ld]

For everyone that says they would like to set morse code standards high, I'd like to know if they could pass 20 wpm right now? I know there is a lot of them. But how many really? 2%?

You know, I promote ham radio to 6th graders once a year, to boy scouts 3 times a year (on overnight campouts), I'm active in my club promoting ham radio to people in my workplace, I am a net control at the local National Weather Service during severe weather. I'm thinking that having 20 wpm won't get more hams as active. And aren't the things I'm doing more vital to ham radio survival than hams who only pound brass? If so, lets let those people have 50 khz of bandwidth - call them real hams - and lets call everyone else hams and be done with it!

I find it interesting that "quality" is always a byword of pro-CW testing hams. I'll bet there is some aspect of ham radio that they don't know very well. Whatever that is, just for a moment imagine someone else saying something like - everyone should be able to type 65 wpm because that is what you need to do TODAY to operate morse code!

I have no problem with raising the bar on text exams. I have no problem with multiple choice either - when the pools are as large as they are. I don't know about you, but I can hardly remember my passwords - there is no way I could memorize 800 answers to questions to pass a ham radio test.

I apologize, I've never stated my opinion on line. But let me leave you with this... If you think we ought have morse code as a requirement to keep quality high - then we ought to be retaking text and morse code exams periodically - because people forget things. (doesn't that sound impractical?)

I like the idea of knowing about CW - lets just not put it on a pedestal. There's a LOT more to ham radio.

Randy
N0LD

[n5ebw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka5s @ Sep. 16 2003,17:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5UJ @ Sep. 16 2003,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you didn't do all that you're bogus, and that makes two of us. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Gee, I feel deprived. (grin)

I took the General and Advanced tests in front of an FCC examiner in FCC offices, the "old way," too. (My first try at General was in the Washington D.C. offices; they really WERE marble halls.) The Extra test was in front of a visiting FCC examiner at a VHF convention, but it was multiple choice so maybe that's not "real." And maybe I earn disqualification by having taken a Novice test given by another ham, not even a VE.

What is this, "Operate like a Pirate Week?"

Belay that, ye lubbers!


Cortland[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Heh, funny you should mention it. September 19th is International "Talk like a pirate" day.

International Talk Like a Pirate Day (http://www.thomasscott.net/yarr/)

[ki4buc]

I just received my Technician license in August, and I'm only 27. "Only" because everyone at the club I joined can be my parents or my grandparents. I only know of a few hams that are near my age.

My experience so far has been somewhat disappointing. There is so much information in the hobby, and no one place or person to really simplify stuff. I have an interest in emergency communications, and I've had to find out what I needed to know from the internet. I did get a list of supplies to buy, and was told to check into the nets. There has been no evaluation of my skills, or any what appears to be a concerted effort to improve my skills. Basically, there is no formal continuing education.

I'm in Florida, and when Isabel looked like she was heading this way, I was probably going to be put into a shelter, hopefully with someone (didn't even have an antenna yet!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and getting a crash course in everything I'd need to know about amateur radio. Talk about feeling useless. I would equate it to like going to college and NOT having orientation. I took all the tests to get in, but no one ever told me _how_ it works.

I did find the classes online at the ARRL, but they seem to be full all the time. I did get put on the prereg list. I will do my best to gather the skills I need and will have to ask alot of questions. There is a good chance I'm not going to ask the right questions, and I won't find out what I need to know, until I need to know it. Which, may be too late. It would be helpful to have a "Now you have your license..." type class. Maybe even "mentors" for new hams.

I have found out about some exercises coming up that might help me with my skills, but there is still a feeling of being lost in a big crowded college.

As for the code, I am too knew to form an opinion on getting rid of it completely from tests, but I can tell you, I never would have gotten my amateur license, because I didn't want to learn code. But, now that I'm in, and hopefully with mentor's and other hams wanting to teach a new guy, maybe I'll get hooked and go learn it.

Us new hams can't all be electrical and computer engineers from the start. Perhaps the more senior hams can teach us.

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeer @ Sep. 19 2003,00<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there any sort of definition of "personal relationship"? #

<snip>

I did not know of this rule (my excuse: I'm not a VE so I have not studied their regulations), but would like to know a lot more about it. #It would seem to preclude teaching a class, then giving that class the exam since ALL good teachers become friends (personally related) with the students.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From the FCC regs:

97.509 (d): No VE may administer an examination to his or her spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents, stepparents, brothers, sisters, stepbrothers, stepsisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and in-laws.

Also:

97.509 (e): No VE may administer or certify any examination by fraudulent means or for monetary or other consideration including reimbursement in any amount in excess of that permitted. Violation of this provision may result in the revocation of the grant of the VE's amateur station license and the suspension of the grant of the VE's amateur operator license. (Emphasis mine).

Now, if anyone here has any proof of any VE doing any of the above, it is your duty as a licensed amateur operator to notify the FCC. If you don't, and are just slandering the good VEs that volunteer their time and effort (remember, VE stands for Volunteer Examiner), please keep your comments to yourself.

--David, N7AAO, ARRL VE

[kb9num]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7AAO @ Sep. 19 2003,10<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeer @ Sep. 19 2003,00<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there any sort of definition of "personal relationship"?

<snip>

I did not know of this rule (my excuse: I'm not a VE so I have not studied their regulations), but would like to know a lot more about it. It would seem to preclude teaching a class, then giving that class the exam since ALL good teachers become friends (personally related) with the students.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From the FCC regs:

97.509 (d): No VE may administer an examination to his or her spouse, children, grandchildren, stepchildren, parents, grandparents, stepparents, brothers, sisters, stepbrothers, stepsisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and in-laws.

Also:

97.509 (e): No VE may administer or certify any examination by fraudulent means or for monetary or other consideration including reimbursement in any amount in excess of that permitted. Violation of this provision may result in the revocation of the grant of the VE's amateur station license and the suspension of the grant of the VE's amateur operator license. (Emphasis mine).

Now, if anyone here has any proof of any VE doing any of the above, it is your duty as a licensed amateur operator to notify the FCC. If you don't, and are just slandering the good VEs that volunteer their time and effort (remember, VE stands for Volunteer Examiner), please keep your comments to yourself.

--David, N7AAO, ARRL VE[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thank you for these comments. I agree that all of us are required to maintain the system. I suspect the post that started Matt's question is one of those items commonly found on the internet: long on opinion, short on fact. It bothers me as a VE to have the type of comment that makes us all look crooked. Kinda like the statements that infer all new hams are stupid, or that all the no code European operators are sub standard. Reminds me of some broadcast band AM talk radio.

73

KB9NUM ARRL VE

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb9num @ Sep. 19 2003,13:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thank you for these comments. #I agree that all of us are required to maintain the system. #I suspect the post that started Matt's question is one of those items commonly found on the internet: long on opinion, short on fact. #It bothers me as a VE to have the type of comment that makes us all look crooked. #Kinda like the statements that infer all new hams are stupid, or that all the no code European operators are sub standard. #Reminds me of some broadcast band AM talk radio.

73[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KB9NUM:

Glad to do it. It just so happened that my VE manual was within easy reach when I read Mr. Beers' question, so I felt it was part of my duty as a VE to answer it.

Now, I am waiting to see if the negative comments about the VEs stop here. However, I am not holding my breath... I ain't that stupid.

73!

David, N7AAO, ARRL VE

[ke4pjw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K7NIK @ Sep. 15 2003,18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Took my Test in April 1994 and didn't get my ticket until July 10th 1994, that Ham in India shouldn't complain about only taking 2 months to get his ticket !!!!









Nick/K7NIk[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Me too! Mine was almost August.

[KG4RUL]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MattBeer @ Sep. 18 2003,23:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OK, then try this.

You set your rig to 7.165 MHz, a frequency where all modes are allowed - SSB, CW, AM, etc. #You don't hear anything. #You speak into your microphone "Is this frequency in use?"

When you release the PTT, you hear an assortment of beeps, which you assume is QRM from some silly PC thing in your house, or BPL or whatever. #So you start to send CQ.

After your CQ, there's an SSB signal answering you, and more of that bleepy QRM.

What your lack of CW caused you to miss is this: There was a shipwreck at sea (where else?) and on what little power is left, the ship-to-shore rigs, which are crystal controlled and are not equipped to operate in the CW bands, are being used to handle the emergency communications.

When you first said "is this frequency in use?", the CW response said "QRL", meaning that it was - but since you don't know a dit from a dah (if we do away with the CW test, this will be true, although perhaps you DO know that code consists of short and long elements - but nobody will in #the future), you had NO idea that what you were hearing even WAS code.

Nobody survived.

Yeah, it was extreme........

mb[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually, you could pick ANY freqency. #In a real emergency you are allowed to use whatever you have to to get through. #Apply the above to this scenario. #Good Grief! #CBers will need to learn Morse along with FRS users (there are some FRS radios that have a rudimentary system for MCW). #

Now to be realistic, have you EVER heard of the above scenario ACTUALLY happening?? #An honest answer, backed up with proof please?

Dennis - KG4RUL #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4RUL @ Sep. 20 2003,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, you could pick ANY freqency. #In a real emergency you are allowed to use whatever you have to to get through. #Apply the above to this scenario. #Good Grief! #CBers will need to learn Morse along with FRS users (there are some FRS radios that have a rudimentary system for MCW). #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
To be truthful, any passing person could grab a ham's radio and try to get help in an emergency, so now we have to each EVERYONE code! Let's start requiring it in grade school, now! The future of our society depends on it!

[taking tongue out of cheek now]

--David, N7AAO

This is the difference between America and the rest of the world. Freedom is not free, and our defense of the first and second ammendment are the fight that we can never stop fighting.

[KD7WHQ]

Yup, and complacency, accepting (or defending) the status quo will lose it all in the end.

KI4BUC, you might be interested in the fact that there is a teacher in Kirkland, WA that helped 31 4th graders get their Tech tickets last year. Two of them occasionally check into the 9p net on the repeater I frequent.

Was interesting watching the transistion from talking at 100 Db, and 300 WPM, to becoming well mannered hams. Kids are kids, and excitement is excitement, but as they aquire radios of their own, they are coming on the air.

A lot of elmering I did, and I anticipate more, as he will help more this year as well in the endeavour :)

73

[KD7WHQ]

And, it is interesting that their voices will get into the DTMF passband, causing random controller errors.
Nothing that affects operation, but the repeater will announce "error 102" and the like http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[4S7RO]

"Ramakrishnan" could be a native of a remote little village in Tamil Nadu, educated in Maharastra, working in Delhi and married to a lady from Punjab! Why would the Police want to go and check up on his "background" in his remote Village? For the same reason why a person might get plucked off an Immigration queue at Newark Airport and detained. How many of you realize that the Police Stations in Delhi and his village in South India may not be linked by computer or even a working telephone? When a Police officer visits his QTH, his folks might not be home! In a country like India, security clearing a person over the issue of a Ham Radio license would certainly not be high on the list of priorities. Mr. Ramakrishnan should be happy that he lives in a country where Ham Radio is allowed at all.

Mr. Smith might clear security at Newark in a flash, but Mr. Ramakrishnan might take 30 minutes....in certain cases he might not board his flight at all. Would you not equate those 30 minutes in a high tech country, to a 12-month wait before he is security cleared to be issued a Ham ticket in India? We should all respect the fact that such measures (in BOTH cases) are a necessity. How many of you realize that conventional HF/VHF Radio still poses a threat to the internal security of a 3rd world nation? America woke us to the threat of terrorism on its shores on 9/11. Yet, these 3rd World countries have known and experienced it for decades. Can we blame the authorities if they seem to over react? How do we tell them that a terrorist or one who intends to use Radio for the wrong reasons does not have to have a ticket? On the other hand, don't we hear of LICENSED hams in the US, having been dealt with for willful interference to Police/Fire dept. traffic?

This is NOT a question of the US vs. the Rest of the World. It is a look at reality and why each country has to do what it does. There is also the issue of always having something to complain about. The ARRL and the FCC don't always seem to be offered bouquet of roses and it is obvious that the US ham expects more from them too. Similarly, there is a lot more the authorities in India can do to streamline the process of issuing Amateur Radio Licenses. Sure India can improve and it CERTAINLY has, but Mr. Ramakrishnan MUST accept realities before letting off steam or voicing his frustrations.

KB6NU and co., having counted their blessings over the "better" system you have in the US, I would like to know if anyone plans to help an Indian ham or one from any 3rd World country, get set upon the air -- so that he might sit under a palm tree and dish out 59s that contribute towards your DXCC? After all, I feel that is what Ramakrishnan is really hinting at when he chooses to criticize his country and its National Amateur Radio Organizations!

73,
Ron, 6Y5/4S7RO

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kg4ivt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3wjl @ Sep. 16 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">" FCC should look into their system and consider implementation of some thing similiar here,Heavens knows we could use it ."


Ummm... if you think we have a problem now with bootleggers put a system like India's in place and see what happens!

Also a lot of good people would be truned off to the hobby.

AND IT IS A HOBBY!

You know I've never seen a hobby that is so filled with people who want to keep others out. I have to wonder why anyone would WANT to be a HAM when post like that are the "greeting" they get.


\If you keep this "private club" attatuide up you'll find that the bans are going to be very empty !!!!!!!

I need to find a new hobby...this one just isn't fun anymore![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
To add to all this, what about the people that go thru the process of getting a license and finally get into the hobby and find out how much they actually hate it (or the people involved in it) and either give up or start f-ing around with everyone on the radio. Don't tell me that doesn't happen. Look at NUT out in CA, there's gotta be this type of scenario on there.

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 20 2003,23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yup, and complacency, accepting (or defending) the status quo will lose it all in the end.

KI4BUC, you might be interested in the fact that there is a teacher in Kirkland, WA that helped 31 4th graders get their Tech tickets last year. #Two of them occasionally check into the 9p net on the repeater I frequent.

Was interesting watching the transistion from talking at 100 Db, and 300 WPM, to becoming well mannered hams. #Kids are kids, and excitement is excitement, but as they aquire radios of their own, they are coming on the air.

A lot of elmering I did, and I anticipate more, as he will help more this year as well in the endeavour http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD7WHQ, My hats off to you. And my verbal appreciation. It looks like the ELMERING buisness is beginning to make a comeback through the Technicians of today. There are so Few Elmers anymore. It seems that the majority of the elmers I am finding are Tech,Tech+, a few Generals, and even fewer Extras.

I just wishto say "Thank you!" and keep up the good work!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K5QFB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Sep. 16 2003,09:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5ux @ Sep. 15 2003,20<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the old days, the FCC examiner came to the large cities about 4 times a year. #After taking the exam, there was a wait of over a month before getting the results. #Of course, time wise, things are better now but I am suspicious when friends give tests to friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, the FCC dockets are full of reports of VE misdoings. #

A ham acquaintance of mine, who has been a General for quite a few years, made the remark to me a few days ago that "If he ever decided to learn the code ...." # I asked, "I thought you DID learn the code to get a ticket." # He said, with a silly grin, "Well, Ed, it's like this." #And then he didn't go on. #Like what, I wonder. # He recently bought a Ranger of some sort to put on 11 meters at, he says, 150 watts output. #(I doubt he knows for sure.) #Fortunately, he appears far more interested in CB than in ham radio. #

I have heard people bragging about buying their ham tickets, totally unashamed of the concept, and completely aware no-one is going to nail them for it. #

It is true, "in the old days" the Novice and the Tech were given by mail, and usually by just one individual, not a team of VEs. #(Though these tests were also administered by clubs in a more supervised atmosphere.) #There was a higher chance of cheating if you were a close friend of the examiner. #Likewise the Conditional ticket was given by individuals as well, and i have always been suspicious of that class of ham ticket. #But General and up (the journeyman level, where you got to be a real ham) were in front of the FCC. #In most cases the examiner was not a ham and didn't care if you became one or not - he was just doing what he was paid to do. #

Though I think most VE teams are honest, there is still a substantial number of investigations into VE irregularities, and because of that, a fairly large number of newly-licensed hams are called in for retesting. #That a lot of those choose not to go to the FCC office for retesting is in itself both a statement of doubt and a de facto indictment of the VE team that tested them. #

I believe there were a lot of irregularities with the old Conditonal Class ticket as well, for, as said in the quote, when friends test friends, the results are in doubt. #

But that is the price we pay for progress, isn't it?

Ed[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
IN THE OLD DAYS! #Yes back a long time ago when General Class and higher had to go to the FCC to take any kind of test. # Coming from the west (left) coast I knew many hams that would look the other way on the Novice written but made sure that they passed the code test. #One hams attitude was if they took the time to learn the code they would get on the air and have the incentive to catch up on the theory. #Worked too!


ALSO many XYL'S who had a Tech. License didn't know a Dit from a Dah nor an ohm from a volt. But most everyone looked the other way! #If your wife was licensed, she wouldn't complain too much when you bought equipment or went to a parking lot sales. #Old term for tail gate

I took my test in Long Beach and DARN PROUD of it. #I'm going to get my Extra sooner or later but I hesitate going to a VE Team as it would be my luck they would get busted for something and my name would end up on one of Riley's letters.

But it is like anything else in today's world, someone will complain about something

AMERICA,
THE Good Ole USA the "BEST PLACE ON EARTH". #


Just my two cents.
Gary

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K5QFB @ Sep. 21 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm going to get my Extra sooner or later but I hesitate going to a VE Team as it would be my luck they would get busted for something and my name would end up on one of Riley's letters.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Gee, thanks for the insult to myself and all the other good VEs out there.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w5ux @ Sep. 15 2003,21:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the old days, the FCC examiner came to the large cities about 4 times a year. #After taking the exam, there was a wait of over a month before getting the results. #Of course, time wise, things are better now but I am suspicious when friends give tests to friends.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yep that friends testing friends is a terrible thing. Tested for Extra with a bunch of friends giving the test session and I did not pass by 1, 14 wrong. Well maybe next time

[KD7WHQ]

N0KLU, thanks http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I figure someone has to do it, if these kids are going to be good ops..

[KG4JYE]

If I may give my view,
The reason the testing is getting easier, is because the population as a whole is stupid. Yes A person can be Smart, but People are sheep. And unfortunatly the FCC goes by mass numbers, not individual intelligence.

On the Code removal topic....Let um', just make the written test hard as hell. 1000 questions, Electronics theory, bands, Propogation, Wave dynamics, and so on and so forth...

[edisnc5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3wjl @ Sep. 16 2003,05:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I need to find a new hobby...this one just isn't fun anymore![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
C Ya'

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 21 2003,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N0KLU, thanks http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I figure someone has to do it, if these kids are going to be good ops..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess I'm getting sort of soured out from all the bad-mouthing I get on the QRZ as well as e-mail http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

the latest from : "Robert Smith" rsmith55@iland.net
with my reply:

Why thank you so much for your concern.


>At 03http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif6 PM 9/22/2003, you wrote:
>just go away ahole. lazy no
>code tech


all started because I said that I wasn't interested in Code, boy did I get rosted, so I got out the blowtorches and fried back.

I am content to stay on 6m and above. untill they eliminate the CW reqiurment.

My personal opinion is: leave the bands and written test but just remove the CW test. Don't "Give"Tech hf let them upgrade by testing to get on HF.

Anyway I have already "Elmered" 8 new techs so far this year, I use the ARRL's classbooks and Now your talking and make classes here I do this for free,the student buys thier study book. I emphasize my thank you for your participation in helping to get more folks interested in Ham radio! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I think it would be nice if all the No-Code would e-mail this nice man and tell him what you think of his attitude just as he has done to me. his e-mail is: Robert Smith rsmith55@iland.net

[N7AAO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 22 2003,17:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 21 2003,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N0KLU, thanks http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I figure someone has to do it, if these kids are going to be good ops..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess I'm getting sort of soured out from all the bad-mouthing I get on the QRZ as well as e-mail http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is one reason I left QRZ for some time... but I figure that someone has to be the voice of sweet reason around here.

Besides, those that would rather insult than come up with a good argument are only showing their mental aptitude.

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N7AAO @ Sep. 22 2003,20:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 22 2003,17:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Sep. 21 2003,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">N0KLU, thanks http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I figure someone has to do it, if these kids are going to be good ops..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess I'm getting sort of soured out from all the bad-mouthing I get on the QRZ as well as e-mail http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is one reason I left QRZ for some time... but I figure that someone has to be the voice of sweet reason around here.

Besides, those that would rather insult than come up with a good argument are only showing their mental aptitude.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AMEN!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

and I thank you for your kind statement http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[w3nrl]

[B] http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif i got an idea let all (everyone) hammers start all over again no matter what you hold now, #just say your ticket is no good as of now and everyone must take a knew test from a knew pool of questions, this way no one person is any better then anyone else, we all start fresh!!!
i've been studying hard to upgrade, but with some of these comments posted, #it would'nt matter if i passed some of these 30, 40 ,50, and 60 years guys in the field of ham radio feel that those of us will be LIDs, sure makes me want to upgrade (yeah right!!!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. #those attitudes will get new blood in the field, NOT anytime soon, the other gentlemen had the right idea find another hobby...one were all man and women are welcomed....like i said i had an idea, not a good one, just an idea!!!

[5z4gt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb6nu @ Sep. 15 2003,07:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ham radio is comprised of a number of "mini-hobbies." Some guys work contests, some are VHF enthusiasts, others are DXers. Still others just like to complain about the ARRL and FCC.

If you think we have it bad here, though, just look at this e-mail I receieved from a reader of my ham radio blog. (http://www.blurty.com/~kb6nu) Ramakrishnan is in India, and he just took the license exam. I asked him how he did on the test, and he replied:
<blockquote>Yes, the exam went well. It will take two months to get the result of the exam. Then the local Police will come for a check to my QTH.

After that, the long wait starts. If I am lucky I will get the licence, around this time next year!!!</p>

Hope you got a glimpse of the state of Amateur Radio in India.. :-(</p>

Nobody seem to do anything about it. We have a completely broken national amateur radio organization. Once that organization is revived a bit, things might improve. But I am sure, it will not improve for another three four years.</p>

Thanks again. WIll catch you on air.</p>

73's Ramakrishnan</p></blockquote>
I guess we here should count our blessings.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
It took just a couple of months' time to implement a Reciprocal Agreement between Kenya & India, where as it took several years for the US to bring into force a Reciprocal Agreement with Kenya. How does this sound??? :-)

Rajeev,vu2ocy/5z4gt

[4S7RO]

Hi Rajeev,

I copied Ramakrishnan's message reproduced by KB6NU, to the ARSI and the NIAR in India.

As far as the reciprocal agreement goes, I can't agree with you more! The club in 4S7 wrote to the ARRL about the prospects of setting up an agreement, but all it did was to pass the "baby" Admittedly, the licensing authority is the FCC. However, with the kind of power that the ARRL wields, it could have done more than say that they had nothing to do with the issue!

If the ARRL represents the American Amateur and works towards their interests, do we have to stop the issue of reciprocal licenses to US hams, before the ARRL moves it's butt ?


73,
Ron, 6Y5/4S7RO

[W2ILP]

We can not consider Ham Radio to be just a fun hobby.
Music and art, fishing and model railroading may be fun hobbies but Ham Radio must be something more than that. # Please read the BASIS and PURPOSE of Ham Radio
as defined in FCC Part 97. #Ham Radio needs this Basis and Purpose in order to get privilages from the FCC or any government to use any parts of the radio frequency spectrum. #All hams are not expected to acheive the goals of the Basis and Purpose but if many hams can not voluntarily do so there can be no reason to continue to
license any hams. #Now the great debate about CW/morse and about the need to educate hams in modern electronics theory can be solved by reading the Basis and Purpose. #When it was an asset to the USA for Hams to be CW operators then there was a real need for them. #This is because military services trained CW operators and CW operators were needed in maritime service. #Now there is no need for such operators and the Commercial Radiotelegraph licenses are being replaced by GMDSS licenses.. #But there remains a great need for technically qualified technicians and engineers in the USA and Ham Radio has traditionally been a starting point for techie types. #True that the computer nerds are now replacing the young hams of the past but there is still a need for RF experts and efficient operators. #It is debatable as to whether 2 meter repeaters can compete with cell phones for emergency operation. #Eventually the cell phones will be more reliable and robust...so the Emergency Operation aspect of the Basis and Purpose may not remain as important as in the past. #The international good will part may also attenuate due to the International communication now available to unlicensed people of almost all nations via the Internet and e-mail. BUT the educational aspects of Ham Radio will always apply. #RTTY, PSK-31, MFSK-16 and Hellschreiber are but evolutionary steps into what is being used for commercial wireless communication today, but they are intrinsically very important educational steps to understanding information theory,
modulation theory and computer interfacing; much of which can not be done as well in vocational school or college labs. #Many Hams have been motivated to experiment with practical antenna designs that have often proved to be in advance of academic studies.
In y opinion this is the sort of thing that makes Ham Radio valuable and makes up for the kind of Hams who are really just Citizens Multibanders (CMBers). #I dunno how one was licensed as long as they were legally licensed as per FCC requirements but I do care about what hams have done once licensed...especially what they have learned...because even if Hams do not expect to ever be professional engineers their technical knowledge makes them part of a valuable cadre such as described in Part 97.

Enuf sed,
73,
Bob Wexelbaum W2ILP (I License People) VE, with the
help of at least two other VEs, a VEC and the FCC.
Read my bio.