IARU Says "Remove Code"

[kc0jez]

"The focus was on the future when the International Amateur Radio Union Administrative Council met September 6-7 in Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

In the aftermath of WRC-03, the council urged IARU member-societies to call to the attention of their administrations "the desirability of adopting specific changes in their domestic regulations for the amateur and amateur-satellite services, so that they will be consistent with the revised Article 25 of the international Radio Regulations." #In that vein, the IARU governing body called for the removal of Morse code as an examination requirement to operate on HF. The council reiterated its stance first taken in 2001 that Morse code proficiency "as a qualifying criterion for an HF amateur license is no longer relevant to the healthy future of amateur Radio."

"IARU policy is to support the removal of Morse code testing as a requirement for an amateur license to operate on frequencies below 30 MHz," the IARU Administrative Council resolved. At the same time, the council's resolution recognized Morse code as "an effective and efficient mode of communication used by many thousands of radio amateurs." It also took into account ITU-Radiocommunication Sector (ITU-R) Recommendation M.1544, which sets down the minimum qualifications of radio amateurs.

NN

[n3mvf]

How is this horse standing? It's been beaten to death.

Pro or con, this horse is old.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif like the old saying " We reap what we sow, look what happens when we all vote NO ( code ) " http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[wd5kca]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3mvf @ Sep. 15 2003,18:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How is this horse standing? It's been beaten to death.

Pro or con, this horse is old.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
His hooves were rendered unto glue to stick his stinking carcass high on the castle wall. #Coders and no-coders alike will flock to the scene to cast their stones and their derision of the infidels.

[KA2LIM]

Another no-code'er speaks.....

LEARN THE MORSE CODE -- go pass the test and get on with your life !

[K3ESE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0jez @ Sep. 15 2003,03:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The council reiterated its stance first taken in 2001 that Morse code proficiency "as a qualifying criterion for an HF amateur license is no longer relevant to the healthy future of amateur Radio."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ah, it's clear now: ham radio was becoming ill, perhaps a new virus...and the excision of the morse requirement is the procedure required to clear the way for health.

# No need now for the nasty nattering known as the no-code vs. know-code debate! We can all get on the bandwagon for a healthy future!

We should see the handwriting on the WALL.the IARU HAS CLEARLY SAID (remove the morse requirement) whether we agree or not the world has spoken from a VERY OFFICIAL STANDPOINT. we all will move forward and enjoy the hobby as we always have.more and more countries will continue TO DROP THE REQUIREMENT. it will take the U.S. many many many YEARS before we even move on the matter.the FCC does not move very quickly on petitions they go as you all know very very SLOWLY. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif 73 de N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936

[K6UEY]

TOM N2NZJ,
I have concern about your statement "we all will move forward and enjoy the hobby as we always have . " Have you been operating HF with out the benefit of CW testing. I'm sure you are aware you are required to Qualify for the priviledge of operating on the HF bands just as WE have .
I'm surprised the IARU is not backing the compromise reached by the members of the WRC-03 who left it up to the member administrations to decide if testing would be required. Sounds like the IARU just like the US Congress has the best politicians that money can buy.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[n5xxm]

lets beat this horse a little more by saying..........
NO-Code, lets go!!!!!!!!!

Ken Harris, NCI-5060, and proud of it!!!!!!!!

http://www.nocode.org

73's!

[KB2SEO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wd5kca @ Sep. 15 2003,19:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3mvf @ Sep. 15 2003,18:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How is this horse standing? It's been beaten to death.

Pro or con, this horse is old.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
His hooves were rendered unto glue to stick his stinking carcass high on the castle wall. #Coders and no-coders alike will flock to the scene to cast their stones and their derision of the infidels.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Congratulations OM you made MY night. that was funny as heck, No code Pro or Con.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Whether you like it or not, the "Iron Curtain"...well Brass anyway seems to be toppling over. I will get a kick out of the elitist attitude when this one comes down.

20wpm extra says to 5 wpm "extra Lights",,, 5 wpms to No Code HFr...No Brass? Interesting, Poop does roll down hill. Maybe FCC is hiring.......

[KB2SEO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2NZJ @ Sep. 15 2003,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We should see the handwriting on the WALL.the IARU HAS CLEARLY SAID (remove the morse requirement) whether we agree or not the world has spoken from a VERY OFFICIAL STANDPOINT.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Official? I did not see anything about them on my License, Do they Fart through Feathers too?

I would habitually write on a Math teachers wall..

those who cannot do-teach
those who cannot teach- Teach gym

Fat ones become administration

to N5XXM that is exactly CORRECT logic. let us support RM-10786 get it passed and let us all get on with IT. the hobby will be healthy and survive because of the IARU'S wisdom and logic with this matter. I too support NCI and am also proud of IT. so 73 de N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k7TAM]

Well I am still a Technician who is studying for General and code and am enjoying learning it and cannot wait to get going! My husband and 10 year old daughter are also studying...we all think code is a useful tool and are having fun learning it.

So, some of us Technicians don't have a problem with learning and getting code at all....just my 2 cents worth!

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Sep. 15 2003,20:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOM N2NZJ,
I have concern about your statement "we all will move forward and enjoy the hobby as we always have . " Have you been operating HF with out the benefit of CW testing. I'm sure you are aware you are required to Qualify for the priviledge of operating on the HF bands just as WE have .
I'm surprised the IARU is not backing the compromise reached by the members of the WRC-03 who left it up to the member administrations to decide if testing would be required. Sounds like the IARU just like the US Congress has the best politicians that money can buy.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm still trying to figure out what operating hf without the code requirement would be like. None of us really know. We can speculate, but there's a good chance that it won't change. In reading various UK news sites it appears thats true. Then again here in the US we have a tendency to push the limits of every rule (k1man is a good example of this) so who knows.

Also I'm wondering who bought out the IARU? With congress its pretty easy to find out who they are working for. From the little research I have done, concerning code and the IARU I can't find any monied interests. I'm sure Icom, Kendwood, Yaesu and Ten-Tec have plenty to gain from more hf operators, but at the same time its probably hardly worth the effort to lobby the iaru.

[k6dy]

Wow, The IARU speaks , remove code. 40 Meter realinement in 2000 and what , well lets not rush things. Wheres the IARU stand on BPL ? Just a thought.

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2NZJ @ Sep. 15 2003,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the IARU HAS CLEARLY SAID (remove the morse requirement) whether we agree or not the world has spoken from a VERY OFFICIAL STANDPOINT.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The IARU is a non-government organization. It is not official, and can't say what countries must or must not do.


Cortland

[ky5u]

The wee mite spunkies speak,
a tappin their bitty spunky feet,
thumpin' the tattered time away,
the'r tweetle tummy voice say,

Ne'er the tap of brassy tip,
a timp tom tone er pipey pip,
t'er not a-spendin spunky time
a learn'n tha brassy tappin rhyme

wi' little beady eyes a-pop
a wish'in, pray'in, the world'd stop,
an n'er ta spin a spinnin' feet
w'out the spunky pipin peep

a talkin the spiff a spunky pip,
yak a yak a spunky skip
an wee spunkies hand i' hand,
talkin' ta'other way spunky lands

such a grin and grandy day
wh'n spunkys ers a playin play
wi' tinty twiny twomps a cheep
won' tha be a mem'ry ta keep?

[K6UEY]

YO,
Have you fallen down and can't get up ??
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N0MLR]

The whole CW - No CW thing brings me to mind of a well known question. ie If a tree falls in the forrest and nobody is there to hear it will it still make a noise?

I am a no code supporter and everyone that has seen my posts knows that. Now here is another question for you.
If a CW SOS signal goes out over the air and N0MLR never listens to the CW bands for any reason will he hear it?

I myself have no use for the code at all. I think when SSB was invented that should have done away with the CW requrement in itself. When the FCC does drop the CW requirement to HF I will upgrade. And as far as I am concerned the CW segment of all Bands are not on my radio dial.

Here is another thought to ponder. If CW was such an efficient communications method then why in all of Gods wisdom did he give us the ability to speak?

NCI member # 1756 and I am proud of it too.

Greg Dunn / N0MLR

[n9lya]

I am sick and tired of code vs nocode..
Extra vs extra light..

Why not channel our energies to inprove the Hobby...
If each of us focused even 1/10 of the energy used to preach our predjudise towards eash other by labeling our selves, into something humane and positive we could save Ham Radio.. They way we are going the hole hobby is in danger.. What do people think when they find qrz.com and all the hate and discontent posted on here...
No wonder people think of Ham Radio as glorified CB.. Even they are starting to lable Ham Radio...

Lets all start thinking positive..
Remeber "if you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem..."

73 Jerry
N9LYA
I do not put myself above or below any other operator . Lets all get along and get things moving again... In the right direction.

[n3mvf]

LYA

Agree. I'd rather have someone make a damn decision then debate this crap for centuries. I use to tell my younger managers, don't get "analysis paraylsis" and make the damn decision.........It will always be wrong to somebody and move to the next issue.

73
Greg

[K2WH]

Yo, the IARU is not a governmental agency with any power to change or mandate any countries decision making process. #They are as ineffective as NCI has been.

However, if the code is dropped due to "irrational exuberance", does that mean NCI will be obsolete or will it then morph into "AUNTEE" (Amatuers United for No Technical Exam Either)?

K2WH

[n3mvf]

K2WH

I was wondering the same thing. With an "us against them" organization, what would be next?

73
Greg

[w7act]

As far as Code/ No Code is concerned there is a Double Standard here.

The Pro Code Hams say everyone should have to pass the Code Requirement. #

O.K. that's fair, but what about all those Hams who got their General License Privaledges with the an So Called Medical Exemption. #I haven't heard anyone calling for the revocation of their Licenses back to Tech or Novice. #Under the Pro Code train of thought these individuals are not qualified to operate on the HF Bands. #That is what the Pro Coders are telling me, if you are suffering fom an learning disorder or a physical handicap are not qualified to operate on HF as everyone can learn 5 WPM, but yet they didn't and they have the priviledges, yet today someone with the same Disabilities are not qualified to operate on the same Frequencies as those who obtained their license prior to the elimination of the 5 WPM Exemption requirement.

[bigtrain]

This whole thing makes me think of something I once saw on a bumper sticker --- sex life has three stages -- stud -- dud -- thud..........[B]

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Sep. 16 2003,08:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yo, the IARU is not a governmental agency with any power to change or mandate any countries decision making process. They are as ineffective as NCI has been.

However, if the code is dropped due to "irrational exuberance", does that mean NCI is obsolete or will it then morph into the NTEE (No Technical Exam Either)?

K2WH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
NCI is a liberal political militant organization that makes money off of those who "proudly" proclaim being members of it. I put NCI in the same boat with Amnesty International. They are both "rights" groups. Both want to give something for nothing. NCI wants to give rights to those who don’t want to work for anything. AI wants to give rights to murderers and other criminals. Both groups want to dictate policy to governments worldwide.

Whenever the code / no-code debate gets hot, it is always the no-code militants that start the ball rolling. They are an arrogant bunch, which has gotten a lot more bold and brazen since WRC 2003's decision regarding international treaty. It is usually the no-code militants who will turn any thread, regardless of topic into a code / no-code mudslinging fest. Instead of rattling cages to change a hundred year-old institution like amateur radio into what they selfishly want it to be, they should be willing to embrace it for what it is, and do what is required of them by law, just like everybody else before them. Amateur radio is not a "right". It is a privilege.

Getting back to NCI, their first battle is to remove Morse proficiency testing. If they accomplish this, they will then push for abolition of the CW sub bands. Then will come abolition of theory exams. This organization is motivated by two driving forces - money and power. It is a business. Don't think that they would merely stop at getting Morse proficiency abolished. That's only the beginning.

I applaud those who enter this hobby as no-code Technicians, and then do what is required of them to upgrade without complaining about it, or sitting and waiting for 10 or more years for the abolition of Morse proficiency testing. Real hams don't want something for nothing. Real hams want to earn their privileges. If you don't want to learn CW, for whatever reason, then be content with 30 MHz and above. Don't be hypocritical by taking HF only if it is given to you on a silver platter without earning the privilege. I am appalled at what some other countries have been doing. They are merely dropping their code requirements and granting no-coders free privileges. Is this what the world is becoming? One big free-for-all?

The CW debate isn't really about CW. It is a debate of working for something vs. getting something for nothing. It is a debate of entering a fine old institution on its standards vs. changing those standards to suit your needs, wants and tastes. Morse proficiency is a test of how much a person really wants this hobby.

I have stated in other threads here and on eHam, that I am not against a no-code HF license, but it should be limited. The purpose of a no-code HF license should be to give the no-coder a taste of HF in the hopes that he/she would like it enough to get the incentive to learn CW and upgrade to General or Extra. I think this would work to an extent. But, unfortunately, there will always exist the hard-core militants who will outright refuse to learn anything and just wait for outright abolition to get a free ride.

There are no excuses for not learning a lousy 5 wpm CW. It did not come easy to me. I am living proof that anyone can learn CW if they want it bad enough. It’s a matter of how much you want this hobby. It’s a matter of how much you want HF. I don’t know about the rest of you, but if it isn’t worth working for, it isn’t worth having, as is the case with CB.

By the way, I am NOT a member of NCI, and I'm proud of that!

73 DE AG4RQ

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC7USZ @ Sep. 16 2003,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as Code/ No Code is concerned there is a Double Standard here.

The Pro Code Hams say everyone should have to pass the Code Requirement.

O.K. that's fair, but what about all those Hams who got their General License Privaledges with the an So Called Medical Exemption. I haven't heard anyone calling for the revocation of their Licenses back to Tech or Novice. Under the Pro Code train of thought these individuals are not qualified to operate on the HF Bands. That is what the Pro Coders are telling me, if you are suffering fom an learning disorder or a physical handicap are not qualified to operate on HF as everyone can learn 5 WPM, but yet they didn't and they have the priviledges, yet today someone with the same Disabilities are not qualified to operate on the same Frequencies as those who obtained their license prior to the elimination of the 5 WPM Exemption requirement.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I just looked at an old 610 from 1996. The medical exemption only exempted one from the 13 wpm and 20 wpm Morse tests. Those claiming disability still had to pass a 5 wpm test.

[N0MLR]

As quoted from AG4RG


"NCI is a liberal political militant organization that makes money off of those who "proudly" proclaim being members of it."

Sir.
I am not Militant, I love peace and the persuit of Happiness. Which for me would be HF without CW. I don't care if you strugled to learn CW that was your decision. As far as NCI making money off the members I only donated 25.00 to them once in 1998. How about the ARRL they want 38.00 a year to force their agenda.
For me I don't like CW and if it were to remain a requirement for HF I would stay on VHF and above. Its a matter of principle.
As far and learnign CW to show your commited to Ham radio goes I feel the college hours in electronics and the earning of a Second Class FCC License is more qualification to be a Ham than the Extra Written. Not to mention the years spent servicing Police , Fire and EMS comunications equipment. CW is just a Mode like any other. Its requirement for HF never made sense to me. I would never be listening to the CW bands so I would never hear a SOS therefor the CW skill would be Useless to me and a Waste of time.

And I say it again, I am a proud member of NCI.

Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI# 1756

[n3mvf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 15 2003,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sir.
I am not Militant, I love peace and the persuit of Happiness. Which for me would be HF without CW. I don't care if you strugled to learn CW that was your decision. As far as NCI making money off the members I only donated 25.00 to them once in 1998. How about the ARRL they want 38.00 a year to force their agenda.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Greg,

The only point I question in your post is the ARRL v. NCI. It's a valid question that once code is abolished, which it probably will be, will NCI disband? #It is a "one trick pony" and the ARRL has been established to continue amateur radio as a whole. #Though their policies will not always agree with everyone, they are not a "one issue candidate" driving a wedge between operators.

As far as your other comments, I too am commercially licensed as well as GMDSS licensed, which all but replaced CW in the maritime distress world. The maritime distress system, GMDSS today, is light years ahead, (digital modes, INSMARSAT etc) of when telegraphy was at it's core.#So, the CW validity arguement is fine, but, what obstacle will have to be removed next because someone can't make the entrance requirements and when does it end?

73
Greg

[k7qxg]

CW, as with all things, was due to meet a timely demise.

I have used it for 42 years now, but have also explored the many other facets offered to amateur radio operators.

My only regret is that the amateur license is slowly being watered down to the level where we will all soon be saying, "That's a big 10-4 good buddy!"

When that happens I'll toss my FT-990 in the trash can.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Bob, K7QXG

[N0MLR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n3mvf @ Sep. 16 2003,10:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 15 2003,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sir.
I am not Militant, I love peace and the persuit of Happiness. Which for me would be HF without CW. I don't care if you strugled to learn CW that was your decision. As far as NCI making money off the members I only donated 25.00 to them once in 1998. How about the ARRL they want 38.00 a year to force their agenda.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Greg,

The only point I question in your post is the ARRL v. NCI. It's a valid question that once code is abolished, which it probably will be, will NCI disband? #It is a "one trick pony" and the ARRL has been established to continue amateur radio as a whole. #Though their policies will not always agree with everyone, they are not a "one issue candidate" driving a wedge between operators.

As far as your other comments, I too am commercially licensed as well as GMDSS licensed, which all but replaced CW in the maritime distress world. The maritime distress system, GMDSS today, is light years ahead, (digital modes, INSMARSAT etc) of when telegraphy was at it's core.#So, the CW validity arguement is fine, but, what obstacle will have to be removed next because someone can't make the entrance requirements and when does it end?

73
Greg[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hi Greg

Removing the requirement for CW is the only thing NCI admits to be on the agenda. Their mission statement clearly supports the removal of CW for HF access.

If NCI were to start on the trail of removal of Testing or Free license with no test at all then they would loose my support. There needs to be a test to show that ones is at least comfortable with the basics. It need not be set to a standard that would exclude everyone but those of College level Electronics. After all it is a learn as you go service/hobby. NOBODY came into it knowing everything.

As far as the ARRL is concerned they are a one horse candidate as well. For years QST has had articles and contests for the CW crowd and HF users. Leaving out for the most part the VHf and above Tech Licensee. They were outright Pro CW till the IRU met this summer. Now they are all fo a sudden stradling the fence, and trying to play to all sides now they know the CW gig is about over. They have driven a wedge for as long as they have been around with their CW stance and all the awards offered for HF and CW operators.

I like everyone else hate that the CW debate is dividing our ranks. I think the FCC should do away with it ASAP by Droping CW and let Ham Radio move forward. And it will once this issue is gone.

Have a Great Day!

Greg Dunn / N)MLR NCI # 1756

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 16 2003,10:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As quoted from AG4RG


"NCI is a liberal political militant organization that makes money off of those who "proudly" proclaim being members of it."

Sir.
I am not Militant, I love peace and the persuit of Happiness. Which for me would be HF without CW. I don't care if you strugled to learn CW that was your decision. As far as NCI making money off the members I only donated 25.00 to them once in 1998. How about the ARRL they want 38.00 a year to force their agenda.
For me I don't like CW and if it were to remain a requirement for HF I would stay on VHF and above. Its a matter of principle.
As far and learnign CW to show your commited to Ham radio goes I feel the college hours in electronics and the earning of a Second Class FCC License is more qualification to be a Ham than the Extra Written. Not to mention the years spent servicing Police , Fire and EMS comunications equipment. CW is just a Mode like any other. Its requirement for HF never made sense to me. I would never be listening to the CW bands so I would never hear a SOS therefor the CW skill would be Useless to me and a Waste of time.

And I say it again, I am a proud member of NCI.

Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI# 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If your idea of pursuit of happiness is HF access without CW proficiency, then you are looking to change a hundred year old institution to suit your needs and wants. According to the Random House dictionary, militant is defined as "vigorously active, aggressive, and often combative, esp. in support of a cause". If you are a no-code proponent to the extent that you actually gave an organization $25 to fight for your cause, I call that militancy. If you loved peace, as you say, you would be content with your privileges, without trying to change anything. As for the "principle" issue, I dare you or any other no-coder to just stay on VHF/UHF and say that you don't want any freebee HF privileges that you didn't work for. I'd be ashamed to key my transmitter on any frequency that I didn't earn.

I did electronics school in 1981-1982. I went down to the FCC field office for my Second Class Radiotelephone License and Radar Endorsement exams fully armed with thorough knowledge of the material. There were no published question pools back then. Did that qualify me to be a ham? Certainly not. Those credentials qualified me to make repairs and adjustments to two-way land mobile transmitting equipment, as well as ham and CB equipment. Fact is, the only thing a Second Class licensee didn't qualify me for was repairs and adjustment to broadcast transmitters. One needed the First class Phone license for that. If I wanted a ham license, there was CW to learn, as well as amateur radio theory. Back in the eighties, there were no codeless licenses. A Tech required 5 wpm CW. If you wanted phone, you needed a minimum of General at 13 wpm.

As for the CW requirement not making any sense to you, there are loads of things that we must learn in school, fully knowing that we will never have any use of them. Does that mean that someone should start an organization to collect money for the fight to have such classes abolished? I have found out throughout my life that I wound up using things that I learned that I never thought that I'd ever use. A perfect example is the chemistry, algebra, geometry and trigonometry that I learned in 9th, 10th and 11th grade. I wound up using all of it when I went to electronics school. I was also made to take music and art. I have yet to see any use for these. However, I was told that I needed these things to "round out" my education. I never balked. I just did it.

One thing I have to say on your behalf is at least you do have a thorough electronic education. At least you're not an appliance operator. You do know what is going on inside your radio.

I agree with N3MVF. To lump ARRL together with NCI is a horrible smack in the face to ARRL, which is an established organization of 89 years, unlike the upstart radical organization NCI.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 16 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as the ARRL is concerned they are a one horse candidate as well. For years QST has had articles and contests for the CW crowd and HF users. Leaving out for the most part the VHf and above Tech Licensee. They were outright Pro CW till the IRU met this summer. Now they are all fo a sudden stradling the fence, and trying to play to all sides now they know the CW gig is about over. They have driven a wedge for as long as they have been around with their CW stance and all the awards offered for HF and CW operators.

I like everyone else hate that the CW debate is dividing our ranks. I think the FCC should do away with it ASAP by Droping CW and let Ham Radio move forward. And it will once this issue is gone.

Have a Great Day!

Greg Dunn / N)MLR NCI # 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
QST has always had their feature "The World Above 50 MHz". As for the ARRL sitting on the fence regarding the CW issue, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It bothers me that they won't take a stand either way.

I also wholeheartedly agree that the CW issue is dividing our ranks. However, your solution will never work. Give in to the no-coders and the pro-coders will forever feel like they've been stabbed in the back. Leave things as they are and the pressure cooker will continue to boil. There is a civil war going on between pro-codes and no-codes. When the American Civil War ended, it was thought that our country would get back to normal. Our country was never the same. In 1996 at the Miami hamfest, I met a ham from Michigan who told me that he went to South Carolina after Hurricane Hugo to help out. His help was refused because he was a Northerner. That was well over 100 years after the Civil War ended. Radical changes only bring about more division and more dissention. The code / no-code issue must be solved diplomatically, through compromise on both sides. Granting one side total victory will only make the other side's anger more deep-rooted. This is why I suggest a limited no-code HF license. It will make both sides happy, except for the most hard-core folks.

[N0MLR]

Genlteman like it or not change is coming and as it was with the droping of the code for the Tech license so shal it be for General and Hopefully Extra. And all the Pro Coders lived thru that so I am sure they will this also.

Long live the CW op ONLY if he WANTS to be a CW Op.

As for me and my radios we shall NEVER use CW. I have better things to do than learning CW and never using it.

73

Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI # 1756

[ky5u]

Sir Greg,

Ahhh. #The big shiney irrefutable shield of change. #I can see you fellows now, 5'4" behind the 7' tall badge of wisdom, chest puffed out, little beady eyes peering around the edge of the big armor shield. #Righteous change! The just cause! #You know what's best for us. #You'll drag us kicking and screaming for our own good to the light of your wisdom.

Standing in the rags of my own stupidity, and with tears of gratitude welling in my wide eyes, I say thank you sir! #Thank you for knowing what's best for me. #I long for the day that I too may be able to hoist up the mighty "change" shield and march forth unincumbered by sentiment, fact, or actuality and feel the glow of being among the righteous changers!!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n3mvf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 15 2003,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as the ARRL is concerned they are a one horse candidate as well. For years QST has had articles #and contests for the CW crowd and HF users. Leaving out for the most part the VHf and above Tech Licensee. They were outright Pro CW till the IRU met this summer. Now they are all fo a sudden stradling the fence, and trying to play to all sides now they know the CW gig is about over. They have driven a wedge for as long as they have been around with their CW stance and all the awards offered for HF and CW operators.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Greg,

The ARRL has made QST and it's marketing to what is most popular. #CW and HF work is obviously the most/and or was the most popular modes and bands. That cannot be debated as that philosophy is the core of the existence of NCI. #If VHF and UHF were as popular and fullfilling, why would NCI and it's members exist? Also, the ARRL has a VUCC which I'm working on as a satellite operator, even though I have HF DXCC. #

Also, I believe the ARRL shouldn't be defining policy until they know what the position is of the majority of their members. # To do otherwise as a non-profit organization with members, would be foolish. #To possibly sacrifice the majority for a few makes no sense to any non-profit organization. #If that were the case, pro-coders would be joining NCI and asking why they, NCI, aren't representing their position. The ARRL learned from that mistake in the past.

73
Greg

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Getting back to NCI, their first battle is to remove Morse proficiency testing. If they accomplish this, they will then push for abolition of the CW sub bands. Then will come abolition of theory exams. This organization is motivated by two driving forces - money and power. It is a business. Don't think that they would merely stop at getting Morse proficiency abolished. That's only the beginning.

73 DE AG4RQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pure speculation.

Have you bothered to ask NCI what happens to them when the code test requirement is removed? #If not, you're just blowing a lot of hot air to try to manipulate the readers of this forum, much in the manner of a liberal journalist!

I've corresponded with the executive director, WK3C (an Extra class licensee), regarding his views on some of the possibly negative implications of removing code testing, and he was quite reasonable in his replies. #I'm sure he would answer your questions, too.

[VA2VA]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # BRAVO IARU FOR SUPPORTING THE END OF THE MORSE CODE EXAM REQUIREMENT # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

VA2VA # ##NCI-4682

[K2WH]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W2DUG @ Sep. 15 2003,15:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Getting back to NCI, their first battle is to remove Morse proficiency testing. If they accomplish this, they will then push for abolition of the CW sub bands. Then will come abolition of theory exams. This organization is motivated by two driving forces - money and power. It is a business. Don't think that they would merely stop at getting Morse proficiency abolished. That's only the beginning.

73 DE AG4RQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pure speculation.

Have you bothered to ask NCI what happens to them when the code test requirement is removed? #If not, you're just blowing a lot of hot air to try to manipulate the readers of this forum, much in the manner of a liberal journalist!

I've corresponded with the executive director, WK3C (an Extra class licensee), regarding his views on some of the possibly negative implications of removing code testing, and he was quite reasonable in his replies. #I'm sure he would answer your questions, too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'll bet NCI will morph into something else to sustain their business approach to ham radio. #They are strictly driven by a profit motive which is not entirely a bad thing. #But their drive for money seems to be tied to the detriment and downfall of ham radio instead of the betterment of the service.

No code means more dollars for them somewhere down the line. #Believe me, they will not just go away this has been and is being discussed in the board meetings.

Find whiners and complainers, and NCI found their next cash cow.

Oh, and just for the record again, I have not used CW for 33 years. Don't like the stuff.

K2WH

about the cw sub bands i have never heard of or saw a petition FOR their removal or any changes for that matter i would say JUST KEEP THEM AS THEY ARE FOR THOSE WHO ENJOY THAT MODE. I laud the actions taken by the ITU AND THE IARU and the IRISH GOV'T'S administration.a GIANT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. for all concerned as a whole.so i say let us go forward NOT BACKWARDS. 73 de N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,13:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greg Dunn / N0MLR # #NCI# 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT DO YOU CALL A FREEBIE? i think you are highly missinformed. its not like their going to just hand out license's to whoever want's them!!!!! you still have to know theory. you still have to memorize and"understand" the information thats in front of your face. you people make me sick when you say freebie.you should be ashamed of you self period. i got a frebie for ya, why dont you just shut all of your whinning mouths and go make your selves a bottle and go lay down, for the sake of the hobbie"not a privledge" a hobbie with rules and regulations.whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[k7fd]

Whether code testing is dropped or not, those who haven't mastered cw will know in their hearts that it is 'unfinished business'. Many will rise to the occasion and join our ranks...

The best thing us code lovers can do right now is get on the cw bands and keep 'em sounding busy! Dust off that key, bug, or paddle and blast off a CQ or two...

73 John K7FD

[KG4OOA]

The United States should do what the United States wants to do as long as we comply with the minimum requirements. Tell IRAU to go to Hell and don't try to dictate to this nation.

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k7fd @ Sep. 16 2003,20:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whether code testing is dropped or not, those who haven't mastered cw will know in their hearts that it is 'unfinished business'. Many will rise to the occasion and join our ranks...

The best thing us code lovers can do right now is get on the cw bands and keep 'em sounding busy! Dust off that key, bug, or paddle and blast off a CQ or two...

73 John K7FD[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
maybe so but thats for them to decide. thats like saying that those who perform karate are not masters unless they learn judo and taekwondo and ninjitsu and jinjitsu and honda and suzuki and kawasaki and all of the other funky funky stuff their is to learn. if you people would just get the taught out of your head,I think things might go a little smoother for all. rememer nothing is truely masterd cause things always are changing!!!!!!!!

[k7fd]

Now here's a guy that knows what he's talking about:

http://www.cvil.wustl.edu/~gary/Ham/morse_main.html

73 John K7FD

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2NZJ @ Sep. 16 2003,19:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about the cw sub bands i have never heard of or saw a petition FOR their removal or any changes for that matter i would say JUST KEEP THEM AS THEY ARE FOR THOSE WHO ENJOY THAT MODE. I laud the actions taken by the ITU AND THE IARU and the IRISH GOV'T'S administration.a GIANT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. for all concerned as a whole.so i say let us go forward NOT BACKWARDS. 73 de N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Tom your wasting your internet bandwidth, those "Pro-Coders" will argue you to death, for thier own way...When the last one dies off then we will have peace otherwise we will have this division forever. Many will not and cannot see the value of letting no-code have some HF priveledges due to thier selfrighteous Morese Code religion. If we as no-coders get in then we defile the "Temple" of the HF bands. There is no peaceful solution. They would have let the Brittish win the revolutionary war. and the South keep slavery intact.
I will not argue anymore with those who will not be reasonable in thier conduct. To me and many no-coders I know think that those who use inuendoes,bad phrases, and put downs to further thier cause are the real CBers that should not be able to keep thier tickets.

Good luck in your arguements. I quit argueing some time ago, I just laugh at thier ignorance and religion. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm sure there will be some who will try to flame me, go ahead, I'm now FLAMEPROOF!! and will not argue. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ok mike(n0klu) I can see your point very clearly as i have read many of these POSTS myself the BOTTOM LINE IS YOU CAN'T TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS and in this case the no code VS pro code issue this proves OUT in some cases with certain DIE HARD POSTS this will be my LAST POST on this ISSUE. MY STANCE is I fully support any CHANGES THAT WILL FUERTHER AND ENHANCE AMATEUR RADIO. again i LAUD the actions of the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. the ITU,THE IARU,AND ALL THOSE COUNTRIES that have DROPPED the CW requirement FROM THEIR TEST ELEMENTS. I FULLY support RM-10786. 73 TO ALL N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kn6z]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 16 2003,20:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To me and many no-coders I know think that those who use inuendoes,bad phrases, and put downs to further thier cause are the real CBers that should not be able to keep thier tickets.

Good luck in your arguements. I quit argueing some time ago, I just laugh at thier ignorance and religion.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You ain't helpin' the cause, man. Don't accuse them of put-downs, then call them ignorant.

[kc0jez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Sep. 16 2003,17<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This organization is motivated by two driving forces - money and power. It is a business. Don't think that they would merely stop at getting Morse proficiency abolished. That's only the beginning.

Have you bothered to ask NCI what happens to them when the code test requirement is removed? #If not, you're just blowing a lot of hot air to try to manipulate the readers of this forum, much in the manner of a liberal journalist!

#They are strictly driven by a profit motive which is not entirely a bad thing. #But their drive for money seems to be tied to the detriment and downfall of ham radio instead of the betterment of the service.

No code means more dollars for them somewhere down the line. #Believe me, they will not just go away this has been and is being discussed in the board meetings.

Find whiners and complainers, and NCI found their next cash cow.

Oh, and just for the record again, I have not used CW for 33 years. #Don't like the stuff.

K2WH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ummmm #membership in NCI is FREE. #NO payment is required. A donation may be made, but it is not mandatory. #Cash Cow? Yeah. Sure.
The ARRL on the other hand wants $38 up front and sends out how many donation please letters a year. The League is a HUGE for profit business with merchandise like books, hats, pins, decals, all kinds of stuff. Oh..and by their own count their membership continues to decline (presently well under 1/4 of US hams) and their demographic is *mostly* hams age 50+. #The old farts protecting tradition and to heck with moving ahead.

[ae4fa]

I must have missed something. Somebody please remind me when we voted on the IARU executive committee's members.

If we didn't, then it's just a group of guys who have proclaimed themselves to be the kings of amateur radio. And, I don't much care what their opinion is.

[k3jdp]

Make room in the gutter. Move over CB! Here comes Ham!

[N0TTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 16 2003,20:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tom your wasting your internet bandwidth, those "Pro-Coders" will argue you to death, for thier own way...When the last one dies off then we will have peace otherwise we will have this division forever. Many will not and cannot see the value of letting no-code have some HF priveledges due to thier selfrighteous Morese Code religion. If we as no-coders get in then we defile the "Temple" of the HF bands. There is no peaceful solution. They would have let the Brittish win the revolutionary war. and the South keep slavery intact.
I will not argue anymore with those who will not be reasonable in thier conduct. To me and many no-coders I know think that those who use inuendoes,bad phrases, and put downs to further thier cause are the real CBers that should not be able to keep thier tickets.

Good luck in your arguements. I quit argueing some time ago, I just laugh at thier ignorance and religion. #

I'm sure there will be some who will try to flame me, go ahead, I'm now FLAMEPROOF!! and will not argue. # #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Lumping me as a "Traitor to this country" and a "Racist" because I'm "Pro-Code" really shows your ignorance in my mind. I hear your reasoning of dropping the code, I've been on your side before.

As a matter of fact I was all for the No-Code Technician class license and removing the 13 and 20 wpm code requirements so more people could join amateur radio. I was a Tech Plus then. I even filed a petition with the FCC and it was mentioned in QST and 73 magazine when it was denied. I was chastised by some of the OMs of my club for attempting that petition. I was a "Militant" then and in some ways I still am.

All these restructure changes provided a temporary jump in licenses and they have been nothing but a failure. Actually, I'm sorry for ever supporting those changes with what I see now. In many major cities that I've traveled to, some areas sound like the CB band on 2 meters. A very sad thought, because I am part of the problem. There was a reason for the standards before the restructuring and now I see why.

So now I have decided, no more major changes. We need compromise. N0PU's and AE4FA's petition is the only compromise I see working for this service/hobby. No one wins or loses in their petition. I plan to comment on it when it comes up. We need baby steps, we need to learn to crawl before we can run. Nothing drastic like the last restructure.

One thing I liked about the petition, it makes learning the code "fair". If you don't learn the code, then you have to be really good with the written test. I find this interesting.

So with that.....

To N0KLU: please don't compare me as a traitor or a racist, I'm neither. I just won't allow anymore "dumbing down" the requirements.

To the rest of the No Code Hams: Anyone can learn the code, it takes time and patience (and sometimes a little luck). It took me 5 weeks, 2 hours a day to learn 5 wpm. It took me forever to pass the 13 wpm (4 years of using the code and several test tries) and I screwed up the written test (I wasn't paying attention to the answer sheet). So patience is the key. You all can do it.

Chris N0TTW

[K0RGR]

Where have you been travelling that 2 meters sounds like CB?

I keep seeing this complaint, and I wonder what I'm missing, because I have travelled all over this country with my 2 meter rig on, and have never heard anything that resembles CB, with the exception of one local 25-year Extra who drinks a bit too much, and starts shouting 'Come on Back' whenever Echolink connects to somebody.

That's not to say I've not seen problems. There are jammers in Chicago - I suspect there always have been - we sure had lots of them out in California. But that was back when all classes had a code test - it didn't stop the bootleggers or the truly antisocial. We had a YL bootlegger in the Twin Cities recently that obviously thought she was on CB - once she was told otherwise, she shut up and we haven't heard her since.

I guess if I had a problem talking to truckers, I might develop a phobia about two meters, because there are a lot of 18-wheeler jockies out there. The ones I've worked are all gentlemen, and operate properly. Maybe you have an outlaw element in your vicinity.

Perhaps you expect to have a conversation with a white-collar professional every time you turn on the rig? I still think that's highly likely, but yes - we've broadened the range of people involved by eliminating the Tech code test, and that's not necessarily bad. To get past this sort of thing, try to find out what the newbie is interested in. I think you'll be amazed at the range of interests you'll find that you have in common. Yes, it is not always easy to do this, either - some younger people are much too easily offended by elders trying to give unsolicited advice.

Mostly what I hear on 2 meters is silence when I'm on the road, except near major metro areas and in many small isolated pockets of activity, where the operating rules are whatever the newbies dreamed up, because there are no oldtimers on to teach them better. I attribute this to the loss of most new hams in the last decade because they rapidly get bored with 2 meters and move on to other pursuits. That's primarily why I support granting limited HF priveleges to the Techs.

The outlaws are not interested in getting a license, so no filter really does any good. If the bands are really crowded, it will make it easier for bootleggers to get in, but it will make it much harder for them to misbehave if we have legions of good hams ready to track them down.
As long as they don't scare the horses, we can live with a few bootleggers that otherwise operate within the rules - they will eventually trip themselves up or go get a real license.

[kg6pog]

I know it's been said before but things change and usually for the better.

I was a LAN Analyst for State Farm Insurance and was certified by Microsoft, Novelle, and CompTia.
In the early days DOS and win 3.1 for work groups was a MS course requirement and even after Windows 95 came out they where still part of the Microsoft Certification courses. So DOS is no longer used in the newer MS platforms and Win 3.1 is pretty much done, does it seem logical to require passing courses in DOS and Win 3.1 in the days of XP and windows 2003? I believe they dropped the DOS requirement and probably the Win 3 when they went to the Windows 2000 MCSE courses.

I got my first drivers license in 1969, and in those days you had to back and take the test every 4 years. Now unless you really mess up with the law it's just a matter of sending in the cash for a license renewal.

I remember the days when you had to take a test simple test and pay to get a C.B. license. Now no license or even the $5.00 fee is required for use of the 11-meter band.

When I was in Boot Camp they used to knock the crap out of people for making mistakes or sometimes to make an example of someone. Today there is no touching of the recruits at all. I really thought that the change was a mistake because knocking someone on their butt once in a while seemed an effective way to insure the recruits were giving it 110% at all times and ensured that only those that really wanted to made it through the training and helped bond the recruits.

No one is saying that the areas designated for C.W. be given over to techs or even phone only, or anything such idea. I would say it would be a good idea to leave those areas alone and if someone wants to access these areas then they should demonstrate their ability to use code, but changes happen and code does not indicate someone's ability to use phone on H.F.

[n0klu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (amnman @ Sep. 17 2003,13:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 16 2003,20:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tom your wasting your internet bandwidth, those "Pro-Coders" will argue you to death, for thier own way...When the last one dies off then we will have peace otherwise we will have this division forever. Many will not and cannot see the value of letting no-code have some HF priveledges due to thier selfrighteous Morese Code religion. If we as no-coders get in then we defile the "Temple" of the HF bands. There is no peaceful solution. They would have let the Brittish win the revolutionary war. and the South keep slavery intact.
I will not argue anymore with those who will not be reasonable in thier conduct. To me and many no-coders I know think that those who use inuendoes,bad phrases, and put downs to further thier cause are the real CBers that should not be able to keep thier tickets.

Good luck in your arguements. I quit argueing some time ago, I just laugh at thier ignorance and religion. #

I'm sure there will be some who will try to flame me, go ahead, I'm now FLAMEPROOF!! and will not argue. # #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Lumping me as a "Traitor to this country" and a "Racist" because I'm "Pro-Code" really shows your ignorance in my mind. I hear your reasoning of dropping the code, I've been on your side before.

As a matter of fact I was all for the No-Code Technician class license and removing the 13 and 20 wpm code requirements so more people could join amateur radio. I was a Tech Plus then. I even filed a petition with the FCC and it was mentioned in QST and 73 magazine when it was denied. I was chastised by some of the OMs of my club for attempting that petition. I was a "Militant" then and in some ways I still am.

All these restructure changes provided a temporary jump in licenses and they have been nothing but a failure. Actually, I'm sorry for ever supporting those changes with what I see now. In many major cities that I've traveled to, some areas sound like the CB band on 2 meters. A very sad thought, because I am part of the problem. There was a reason for the standards before the restructuring and now I see why.

So now I have decided, no more major changes. We need compromise. N0PU's and AE4FA's petition is the only compromise I see working for this service/hobby. No one wins or loses in their petition. I plan to comment on it when it comes up. We need baby steps, we need to learn to crawl before we can run. Nothing drastic like the last restructure.

One thing I liked about the petition, it makes learning the code "fair". If you don't learn the code, then you have to be really good with the written test. I find this interesting.

So with that.....

To N0KLU: please don't compare me as a traitor or a racist, I'm neither. I just won't allow anymore "dumbing down" the requirements.

To the rest of the No Code Hams: Anyone can learn the code, it takes time and patience (and sometimes a little luck). It took me 5 weeks, 2 hours a day to learn 5 wpm. It took me forever to pass the 13 wpm (4 years of using the code and several test tries) and I screwed up the written test (I wasn't paying attention to the answer sheet). So patience is the key. You all can do it.

Chris N0TTW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
To me and many no-coders I know think that those who use inuendoes,bad phrases, and put downs to further thier cause are the real CBers that should not be able to keep thier tickets.

ONLY If you use inuendoes/bad prases and put downs

Do you understand the phrase "If the shoe fits..."
It it don't, then it wasn't for you!

Just giving those to whom have bad mouthed us the same things they dished out!.. If the fire's too hot get out of the pan!

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N0MLR @ Sep. 16 2003,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Genlteman like it or not change is coming and as it was with the droping of the code for the Tech license so shal it be for General and Hopefully Extra. And all the Pro Coders lived thru that so I am sure they will this also.

Long live the CW op ONLY if he WANTS to be a CW Op.

As for me and my radios we shall NEVER use CW. I have better things to do than learning CW and never using it.

73

Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI # 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pure arrogance. What else do you want besides an easy welfare ticket to Extra? Would you like to kick in my door and cart off all my radio equipment next, Mr. Welfare Monger? I guess that is what will be next. the no-coders will all cry about the cost of HF gear and demand welfare vouchers for radio equipment. I suggested compromise. He wants no compromise. He just wants it all. The very worst thing that the FCC did was to offer a no-code license. This is the result. Now we have a no-code Trojan Horse that has entered the hobby and intends to drag it all the way down to their level. If you want no-code HF, go back to 11 meters.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W2DUG @ Sep. 16 2003,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Getting back to NCI, their first battle is to remove Morse proficiency testing. If they accomplish this, they will then push for abolition of the CW sub bands. Then will come abolition of theory exams. This organization is motivated by two driving forces - money and power. It is a business. Don't think that they would merely stop at getting Morse proficiency abolished. That's only the beginning.

73 DE AG4RQ[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pure speculation.

Have you bothered to ask NCI what happens to them when the code test requirement is removed? If not, you're just blowing a lot of hot air to try to manipulate the readers of this forum, much in the manner of a liberal journalist!

I've corresponded with the executive director, WK3C (an Extra class licensee), regarding his views on some of the possibly negative implications of removing code testing, and he was quite reasonable in his replies. I'm sure he would answer your questions, too.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Pure speculation? I'm blowing hot air? No, it's you that's speculating and blowing the hot air. Surely you're not that naive that you actually believe that NCI is doing all that they're doing out of the benevolence of their hearts, do you? Get real. It’s a money-making business. If they accomplish code proficiency abolition, they will then mutate into something else. What do you think they would do after that? Wither away? It seems as though I read the same junk about withering away in the "Communist Manifesto".

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 16 2003,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,13:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI# 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT DO YOU CALL A FREEBIE? i think you are highly missinformed. its not like their going to just hand out license's to whoever want's them!!!!! you still have to know theory. you still have to memorize and"understand" the information thats in front of your face. you people make me sick when you say freebie.you should be ashamed of you self period. i got a frebie for ya, why dont you just shut all of your whinning mouths and go make your selves a bottle and go lay down, for the sake of the hobbie"not a privledge" a hobbie with rules and regulations.whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! !!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You answered your own question. As long as you can memorize a question pool for your answers, you won't be learning any theory. The only thing that isn't a freebee is the book with the question pool. I should be ashamed of myself? Get off your butt and earn your upgrade instead of whining and looking for a freebee.

[ag4rq]

Anyone can learn code if they want it bad enough. There is a group of hard-core arrogant no-coders who absolutely refuse to learn code and just want privileges handed to them. Just because some Socialist-leaning countries in Europe gave away a free upgrade to their own citizens doesn't mean the United States has to buckle under and follow suit. The USA needs to do what is best for the USA.

Like I said in a previous post to this thread, I have admiration for anyone who entered the amateur radio hobby as a codeless Tech and did what they had to do to earn their upgrade, whether 5, 13 or 20 wpm code. At least they did what was required of them instead of whining and complaining about the requirements. They didn't join NCI and give them their hard-earned money to get the rules changed.

If a no-coder wishes to remain a no-coder, fine. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to learn CW. But, a ham license needs to be earned. Just don't expect everybody else to bow down to you and let you on HF just because YOU want the rules changed, or just because some Socialist-leaning countries changed their rules. Those same countries abolished capital punishment and criticize the United States for continuing to implement it.

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,16:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 16 2003,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,13:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greg Dunn / N0MLR # #NCI# 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT DO YOU CALL A FREEBIE? i think you are highly missinformed. its not like their going to just hand out license's to whoever want's them!!!!! you still have to know theory. you still have to memorize and"understand" the information thats in front of your face. you people make me sick when you say freebie.you should be ashamed of you self period. i got a frebie for ya, why dont you just shut all of your whinning mouths and go make your selves a bottle and go lay down, for the sake of the hobbie"not a privledge" a hobbie with rules and regulations.whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa




aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! !!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You answered your own question. As long as you can memorize a question pool for your answers, you won't be learning any theory. The only thing that isn't a freebee is the book with the question pool. I should be ashamed of myself? Get off your butt and earn your upgrade instead of whining and looking for a freebee.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT IS MEMORIZATION? ITS A FORM OF LEARNING YOU RETARD.GET REAL IM NOT GOING TO GET OFF MY BUTT AND AND DO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO AFFECT ON WHAT KINDA OF A OPERATOR I AM!!!! DONT YOU MEMORIZE THE CODE TO LEARN IT?SHURE YOU DO.AND SOME PEOPLE MEMORIZE IT AND DONT EVER USE IT AND THATS MEMORIZATION TO ISNT IT? LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REAL POINT INTIL THEN GO GET KEY'ERS CRAMP AND GET OFF MY TAIL OR YOULL GET BIT!!!!

[ae4fa]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one is saying that the areas designated for C.W. be given over to techs or even phone only, or anything such idea.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

POG:

That is EXACTLY what the NCVEC is proposing. That petition proposes the current Novice/Tech-Plus subbands be converted to fone use.

IT APPEARS TO ME THAT OL PAINT'S BEEN SHOT UP ALMOST 2000 TIMES the only part of him left IS PART OF HIS ARSE AND HIS TAIL FLIPPIN IN DA WIND.OH DAT PO HORSE. he never had a chance from day one of this ongoing DEBATE and mudslinging. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif 73 de N2NZJ TOM NCI#4936

[kb9num]

ag4rq passionately said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure speculation? I'm blowing hot air? No, it's you that's speculating and blowing the hot air. Surely you're not that naive that you actually believe that NCI is doing all that they're doing out of the benevolence of their hearts, do you? Get real. It’s a money-making business. If they accomplish code proficiency abolition, they will then mutate into something else. What do you think they would do after that? Wither away? It seems as though I read the same junk about withering away in the "Communist Manifesto".[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I know from posts on other similar threads it is not polite to ask for sources, but I have to know: where is the money in this? I am apparently to dumb to see how anyone profits from NCI. You seem to have knowledge of this subject so please enlighten me.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,16:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,16:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 16 2003,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 16 2003,13:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Greg Dunn / N0MLR NCI# 1756[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT DO YOU CALL A FREEBIE? i think you are highly missinformed. its not like their going to just hand out license's to whoever want's them!!!!! you still have to know theory. you still have to memorize and"understand" the information thats in front of your face. you people make me sick when you say freebie.you should be ashamed of you self period. i got a frebie for ya, why dont you just shut all of your whinning mouths and go make your selves a bottle and go lay down, for the sake of the hobbie"not a privledge" a hobbie with rules and regulations.whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa








aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! !!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You answered your own question. As long as you can memorize a question pool for your answers, you won't be learning any theory. The only thing that isn't a freebee is the book with the question pool. I should be ashamed of myself? Get off your butt and earn your upgrade instead of whining and looking for a freebee.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WHAT IS MEMORIZATION? ITS A FORM OF LEARNING YOU RETARD.GET REAL IM NOT GOING TO GET OFF MY BUTT AND AND DO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO AFFECT ON WHAT KINDA OF A OPERATOR I AM!!!! DONT YOU MEMORIZE THE CODE TO LEARN IT?SHURE YOU DO.AND SOME PEOPLE MEMORIZE IT AND DONT EVER USE IT AND THATS MEMORIZATION TO ISNT IT? LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REAL POINT INTIL THEN GO GET KEY'ERS CRAMP AND GET OFF MY TAIL OR YOULL GET BIT!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is exactly the kind of CB mentality that justifies keeping the code requirements. I rest my case. Talk about arrogance! Here's a piece of filth that's been licensed less than two months spewing his sewage! Go back to channel 19, you piece of trash. Ill-mannered dogs like you are incapable of acting civilized. If this is how you conduct yourself, nobody would want to talk to you, except on CB.

I repeat myself--
Any chimp can memorize questions and answers from a book and ace an exam without learning a thing. Even you.

Being licensed only a couple of months, here's the perfect example of one of the multitude of CBers who will be entering our ranks because of the prospect of a no-code HF license. Taahm teh faar up de leenyer 'n shoot some skip, dere boy!

[N0TTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,16:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WHAT IS MEMORIZATION? ITS A FORM OF LEARNING YOU RETARD.GET REAL IM NOT GOING TO GET OFF MY BUTT AND AND DO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO AFFECT ON WHAT KINDA OF A OPERATOR I AM!!!! DONT YOU MEMORIZE THE CODE TO LEARN IT?SHURE YOU DO.AND SOME PEOPLE MEMORIZE IT AND DONT EVER USE IT AND THATS MEMORIZATION TO ISNT IT? LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REAL POINT INTIL THEN GO GET KEY'ERS CRAMP AND GET OFF MY TAIL OR YOULL GET BIT!!!! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

There are some things that should be memorized (like the code #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and there are some things that need practical experience. You don't learn by memorizing the written test.

The comments you made were juvenile at least. You've been licensed for 2 months, does that make you an expert on what changes are needed to this hobby? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I think not. You haven't been in it long enough to learn the basics.

It's good you passed your first examine. Why don't you use that energy and just learn the code test, rather than making those comments? I didn't think I could do it and I surprised myself when I passed.

Just look at your comments and see WHY pro-code people want to keep it. Your comments reflect your actions and character. The type of character that is not needed on an INTERNATIONAL type band.

Chris N0TTW

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb9num @ Sep. 17 2003,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ag4rq passionately said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure speculation? I'm blowing hot air? No, it's you that's speculating and blowing the hot air. Surely you're not that naive that you actually believe that NCI is doing all that they're doing out of the benevolence of their hearts, do you? Get real. It’s a money-making business. If they accomplish code proficiency abolition, they will then mutate into something else. What do you think they would do after that? Wither away? It seems as though I read the same junk about withering away in the "Communist Manifesto".[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>


I know from posts on other similar threads it is not polite to ask for sources, but I have to know: where is the money in this? I am apparently to dumb to see how anyone profits from NCI. You seem to have knowledge of this subject so please enlighten me.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, of course I don't have any tangible evidence. I suppose that those who work for NCI are well-healed folks with loads of time on their hands, and they're such dedicated folks that they don't mind committing their whole lives to abolishing Morse proficiency worldwide.

All I can say is that I need to find a cause that loads of people would be willing to contribute to, so I can make loads of money also. The difference is that I wouldn't be willing to sell amateur radio down the river to do it.

ag4rq,

Sounds like you hit the right spot OM.... Keep up the good work... I also would hate to see the bands full of the "10-4 back door bunch"... And that IS what it will become if the CW requirement is removed...

Just a bunch of whiny little babies they are.... All of em...

[n3mvf]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 16 2003,19:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WHAT IS MEMORIZATION? ITS A FORM OF LEARNING YOU RETARD.GET REAL IM NOT GOING TO GET OFF MY BUTT AND AND DO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO AFFECT ON WHAT KINDA OF A OPERATOR I AM!!!! DONT YOU MEMORIZE THE CODE TO LEARN IT?SHURE YOU DO.AND SOME PEOPLE MEMORIZE IT AND DONT EVER USE IT AND THATS MEMORIZATION TO ISNT IT? LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REAL POINT INTIL THEN GO GET KEY'ERS CRAMP AND GET OFF MY TAIL OR YOULL GET BIT!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is sad, if this is what NCI is asking us to accept as the future of ham radio.

73

[K0ZZE]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (amnman @ Sep. 17 2003,19http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,16:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WHAT IS MEMORIZATION? ITS A FORM OF LEARNING YOU RETARD.GET REAL IM NOT GOING TO GET OFF MY BUTT AND AND DO SOMETHING THAT HAS NO AFFECT ON WHAT KINDA OF A OPERATOR I AM!!!! DONT YOU MEMORIZE THE CODE TO LEARN IT?SHURE YOU DO.AND SOME PEOPLE MEMORIZE IT AND DONT EVER USE IT AND THATS MEMORIZATION TO ISNT IT? LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET A REAL POINT INTIL THEN GO GET KEY'ERS CRAMP AND GET OFF MY TAIL OR YOULL GET BIT!!!! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

There are some things that should be memorized (like the code #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) and there are some things that need practical experience. You don't learn by memorizing the written test.

The comments you made were juvenile at least. You've been licensed for 2 months, does that make you an expert on what changes are needed to this hobby? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I think not. You haven't been in it long enough to learn the basics.

It's good you passed your first examine. Why don't you use that energy and just learn the code test, rather than making those comments? I didn't think I could do it and I surprised myself when I passed.

Just look at your comments and see WHY pro-code people want to keep it. Your comments reflect your actions and character. The type of character that is not needed on an INTERNATIONAL type band.

Chris N0TTW[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WELL IM NOT A CHIMP AND YA I HAVE BEEN LICENSED FOR 2 MONTHS, DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU-THINK NOT!!! SEVERAL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HAMS AND DONT THINK IM A 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!!AND THEY ARE ALL GENERAL AND EXTRA AND SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS I DO. AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDIOT I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU NEED TO PICK YOUR FIGHTS BETTER YOU'RE FIGHTING A LOOSING BATTLE!!!!! AND IM NOT TRASH NOR HAVE I CALLED YOU TRASH TILL NOW YOU INBREED. I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN SIT HERE AND ARGUE WITH A BUNCH OF STUBBURN JERKS.I SPOKE MY OPINION AND I HOPE TO HELL THEY GET RID OF THE CODE SO ALL YOU PEOPLE WOULD JUST SELL YOUR';E RADIOS CUZ YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T LET ANY OF US "STUPID SLOW PEOPLE" TALK ANY WAY.ALL MOST OF YOU PRO CODE BASTARDS INSULT MOST OF US ANY WAY ON HERE, BUT ID BET YOU WOULD NOT DARE DO IT ON THE AIR DO TO THE FACT MOST PEOPLE WOULS THINK YOUIR A LID AND STOP TALKING TO YOU ALTOGETHER. SO YOU CAN TRASH ME ALL YOU WANT BUT I WILL DEFINTLY ENJOY THE HF SPECTRUM WHEN I GET THEIR 10-4!!!!!

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NJ1K @ Sep. 17 2003,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ag4rq,

Sounds like you hit the right spot OM.... Keep up the good work... I also would hate to see the bands full of the "10-4 back door bunch"... And that IS what it will become if the CW requirement is removed...

Just a bunch of whiny little babies they are.... All of em...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If they want to learn CW and upgrade, that's their choice. If they want to remain no-code Techs for the rest of their lives, that's also thier choice. But, snotty, nasty, arrogant upstarts shouldn't be looking to change the rules to suit their fancy. Either learn the code, or don't learn the code. If they choose not to learn the code, then be content with the 30+ MHz privileges they already have, and don't look to kick in any doors. When I became a ham, I knew that I had to do things "their" way, if I wanted to enter "their" ranks. I didn't complain about the requirements. Either I did the requirements or I didn't. I didn't think about starting a grass roots movement to topple the existing order.

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WELL IM NOT A CHIMP AND YA I HAVE BEEN LICENSED FOR 2 MONTHS, DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU-THINK NOT!!! SEVERAL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HAMS AND DONT THINK IM A 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!!AND THEY ARE ALL GENERAL AND EXTRA AND SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS I DO. AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDIOT I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU NEE TO PICK YOUR FIGHTS BETTER YOURE FIGHTING A LOOSING BATTLE!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a big ten-four there good buddy. We be back quiet. This be the Big Bubba Base with fire in the wire, a Galaxy radidio and a Silver Eagle micky-fone.

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WELL IM NOT A CHIMP AND YA I HAVE BEEN LICENSED FOR 2 MONTHS, DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU-THINK NOT!!! SEVERAL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HAMS AND DONT THINK IM A 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!!AND THEY ARE ALL GENERAL AND EXTRA AND SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS I DO. AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDIOT I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU NEE TO PICK YOUR FIGHTS BETTER YOURE FIGHTING A LOOSING BATTLE!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a big ten-four there good buddy. We be back quiet. This be the Big Bubba Base with fire in the wire, a Galaxy radidio and a Silver Eagle micky-fone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE, TALK ABOUT A HYPOCRIT!!!!

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WELL IM NOT A CHIMP AND YA I HAVE BEEN LICENSED FOR 2 MONTHS, DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU-THINK NOT!!! SEVERAL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HAMS AND DONT THINK IM A 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!!AND THEY ARE ALL GENERAL AND EXTRA AND SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS I DO. AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDIOT I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU NEE TO PICK YOUR FIGHTS BETTER YOURE FIGHTING A LOOSING BATTLE!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a big ten-four there good buddy. We be back quiet. This be the Big Bubba Base with fire in the wire, a Galaxy radidio and a Silver Eagle micky-fone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE, TALK ABOUT A HYPOCRIT!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just trying to speak your language, good buddy.

[N0TTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb9num @ Sep. 17 2003,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know from posts on other similar threads it is not polite to ask for sources, but I have to know: #where is the money in this? #I am apparently to dumb to see how anyone profits from NCI. #You seem to have knowledge of this subject so please enlighten me. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well, let me tell you.....

To start, NCI board of directors has 2 individuals that can make more money from this. Fred Maia (W5YI) and Duane Mantick (WB0OMC).

W5YI is well known about his study guides and such. The drop off of new hams has come to his attention through his pocket book. If more people BUY his books for the test questions, he'll make more money. Plain and simple logic prevails here. So how do you do this? You get the FCC to drop the Code requirement.

WB0OMC is partner in the eQSL website. If you look at the statements made about eQSL, you'll see that if more amateurs use the service, there would be more oportunities to sell advertising to cover the so called "monthly costs" of running the website. It also claims it will be converted to a non-profit organization.

Reading between the lines is, he sure won't do it for free. He'll get paid, like a director of a non-profit organization to do this "service to the amateur community". The website doesn't even guarantee that he won't charge in the future as well. What a way to get people dependant on the service. He could turn around and and charge a small fee to help cover services. Even if eQSL charged 25 cents for the QSLs for one year, the company can still make $6 million+ in revenue.

What a scam if NCI gets it's way....

Chris N0TTW

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,19:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ag4rq @ Sep. 17 2003,19:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WELL IM NOT A CHIMP AND YA I HAVE BEEN LICENSED FOR 2 MONTHS, DOES THAT MAKE ME ANY LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU-THINK NOT!!! SEVERAL OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE HAMS AND DONT THINK IM A 10-4 GOOD BUDDY!!!!AND THEY ARE ALL GENERAL AND EXTRA AND SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS I DO. AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDIOT I HAVE BEEN ARGUING WITH YOU NEE TO PICK YOUR FIGHTS BETTER YOURE FIGHTING A LOOSING BATTLE!!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's a big ten-four there good buddy. We be back quiet. This be the Big Bubba Base with fire in the wire, a Galaxy radidio and a Silver Eagle micky-fone.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE, TALK ABOUT A HYPOCRIT!!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just trying to speak your language, good buddy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU STARTED THEIR. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR A GLORIFIED CB'ER.HOW DO YOU MEASURE INTELLIGENCE, WITH YOUR EMOTIONS?I THINK SO ANY WAY YOU HAVE STUPPED TO MY LEVEL AND THATS PROOF ENOUGH FOR THE REST OF US. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU STARTED THEIR. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR A GLORIFIED CB'ER.HOW DO YOU MEASURE INTELLIGENCE, WITH YOUR EMOTIONS?I THINK SO ANY WAY YOU HAVE STUPPED TO MY LEVEL AND THATS PROOF ENOUGH FOR THE REST OF US.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes, I started THERE. Learn how to use the English language when addressing me, you illiterate beast. I was on CB from 1977-1982, during years you probably weren't even on this earth for. Unfortunately, I have STUPED (there we go again with the English skills) to your level. I made the mistake of not heeding the advice:
"Don't wrestle with a pig. You will both get muddy, but the pig will love it."

Don't bother addressing me anymore. I have nothing more to say to the likes of you.

As for you and the rest of your kind, if you do succeed in getting your freebee welfare upgrade to HF, all code proficient hams should either ignore your CQ’s or answer your CQ’s with CW. No-one should think twice about reporting any harmful interference from your kind to the FCC with recorded proof.

.- --. ....- .-. --.-

KC0QME
You obviously just don't know how much you sound like a little kid throwing a tantrum.... Wow, too bad too for such an intelligent guy (as you say you are)....

[K0ZZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NJ1K @ Sep. 17 2003,20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC0QME
You obviously just don't know how much you sound like a little kid throwing a tantrum.... Wow, too bad too for such an intelligent guy (as you say you are)....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
YES I AM SMART WITH A RECORDED IQ 0F 125. AND AS FAR AS ACTING LIKE A CHILD THATS DUE TO THE NUMBER OF@ssh*lES THAT SAY TECH'S ALL WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING AND CALL DROPING THE ELEMENT 1 A FREEBIE. ALL IAM SAYING IS JUST LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYINGBECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE.AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDOIT I WAS BORN IN 75.AND I ATTACKED HIM DUE TO HIS BASHING OF ANOTHER TRYING TO HELP THE OTHER ONE OUT. AND ALSO TIRED OF HEARING THE WORD FREEBIE,LAZY NO CODE I REALY HOPE ELEMENT 1 GETS DROPPED CUZ IT WILL SHUT ALOT OF PEOPLE UP.

[N0TTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC0QME @ Sep. 17 2003,19<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> YES I AM SMART WITH A RECORDED IQ 0F 125. AND AS FAR AS ACTING LIKE A CHILD THATS DUE TO THE NUMBER OF@ssh*lES THAT SAY TECH'S ALL WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING AND CALL DROPING THE ELEMENT 1 A FREEBIE. ALL IAM SAYING IS JUST LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYINGBECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE.AND AS FAR AS THE OTHER IDOIT I WAS BORN IN 75.AND I ATTACKED HIM DUE TO HIS BASHING OF ANOTHER TRYING TO HELP THE OTHER ONE OUT. AND ALSO TIRED OF HEARING THE WORD FREEBIE,LAZY NO CODE I REALY HOPE ELEMENT 1 GETS DROPPED CUZ IT WILL SHUT ALOT OF PEOPLE UP. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You know your not helping your case when you get all bent out of shape. You need to chill and reduce the name calling.

I got angry when this all came up (dropping the code), so now I need to chill and look at both side.

CW may be antiquated, but it's still a needed skill. Today I saw nothing but CW operators getting through, when all other mode (including PSK) couldn't get through. The most that PSK and Voice could do is about 500 miles on average, based on spot reports.

Today is a good example of WHY this mode needs to be tested for. Geomagnetic storms have wiped out all other modes for distance. WWV even dropped out for 2 hours.

So save your energy, learn the code and pass the test and you can be in the ranks that you condemn.

Chris N0TTW

[ag4rq]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (amnman @ Sep. 17 2003,19:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">CW may be antiquated, but it's still a needed skill. Today I saw nothing but CW operators getting through, when all other mode (including PSK) couldn't get through. The most that PSK and Voice could do is about 500 miles on average, based on spot reports.

Today is a good example of WHY this mode needs to be tested for. Geomagnetic storms have wiped out all other modes for distance. WWV even dropped out for 2 hours.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Another very good reason is that CW radios are easier and less costly to homebrew. Therefore promoting the use of CW helps to promote homebrewing. I can't think of a better way to learn about radio than to build your own. I'm not talking about kits, either. I'm talking about building a CW transceiver or transmitter and receiver from scratch. What a thrill it is to be able to make contacts using a homebrew rig fashioned from some junk parts!

Without the mandatory CW exam, most people wouldn't bother to learn it at all. Once exposed to it by way of a mandatory exam, many have found that they actually like CW.

I wouldn't say that ALL technicians want a freebie... I will say that I believe that ALL technicians who are pushing to have the CW requirement dropped are just looking for a freebie... There is no advancement of the amateur radio service by eliminating the CW testing requirement... Dropping the CW requirement will only degrade the service to a level even lower than it already is...

NO FREEBIES here!!!!

I for one do not care if they keep the code or not... I'm having a blast listening to you old farts pop a vein over it!
I haven't had this much fun with a hobby since I was bit by that snake!

[VA7ADR]

IARU is only for the removal of the code requirement for HF privileges. It is NOT doing away with CW as a mode. So what's the big deal?

I think the main issues here are the insecurity and elitism of the older generation of amateur radio operators. They are probably scared witless by the thought of losing their "sacred" place in this hobby.

My favorite mode is ssb. If they mess up with it with things like bpl, I'll go to other modes or maybe even take other hobbies http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[k7fd]

No coders won't always be the lowest common denominator. As soon as code testing is dropped, there'll be a new group pushing to drop the written test. Where it ends, nobody knows. But I've read some pretty good guesses here!!

73 John K7FD

ALL THAT WILL GO IS THE ELEMENT ONE (A) TEST this is all that will "GO"nothing ELSE. i am GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE (CW) AWAY. and also NO ONE IS PROPOSING TO DO AWAY WITH THE (CW) SUB BANDS IS THIS CLEAR.the element one test is ALL that has been proposed to be DELETED. And NOTHING ELSE. it appears to me that administrations OVERSEAS shortly after WRC-03 just deleted IT rather QUICKLY with out ANY infighting and MUDSLINGING but NOT HERE.WE HAVE TO show the ENTIRE WORLD HOW DIVIDED WE ARE.can any of YOU IMAGINE HOW WE APPEAR TO OTHER HAM'S reading these POISON THREADS BASHING EACH OTHER.I will tell YOU THIS we ain't lookin to good with this.every once in A while some HAM'S FROM overseas will tell us EXACTLY "THAT". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif 73 AND GOOD NITE N2NZJ TOM.

BTW (CW) IS NOT THE HOLY GRAIL IT IS JUST A MODE.just one of OTHER great modes we have AVAILABLE to us.but it is DEFINITELY NOT THE HOLY GRAIL of anything PERIOD. 73 DE N2NZJ TOM. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K9DI]

Hello to no-coders/pro-coders,
# # # Wayne K9DI here. #I've read through 9 pages of bickering, bashing and flaming... #ENOUGH DAMMIT!!!!! #Both sides of this issue need to back off and cool down...am I mad? #YOU BET I AM!!! Not because of the proposal to drop Morse Code Testing ( I am against it, at least for the Amateur Extra class), but because hams from both sides have been acting worse than my daughter when she was 3 years old when she couldn't get her own way... FOR SHAME!!!
# # To paraphrase a close friend of mine "Outside forces won't destroy ham radio, Ham radio ops will destroy ham radio". # Check your history, our hobby has been a target of commercial and government entities since 1912. #After World War I ham radio was very nearly abolished and the U.S. Navy would have had control of all RF spectrum.....Luckily, that eventuality never happened. #"200 Metres and Down" and "Calling CQ" both by Clinton B. DeSoto should be required reading for any new ham. #Now we are fighting against each other and the carrion eaters are licking their chops as they watch us wound #and tear at each others vitals.
# # # I cannot foretell the future, but I am willing to elmer anyone into our hobby as long as they follow the regulations. #Fine, Old Pharts, don't answer new ops, but by GOD DO NOT QRM them with Morse Code [ NOTE: I do not say CW, CW is as we all know a mode of injecting intelligence on a signal Morse Code conveys that intelligence.] #Intentional jamming is still against the regulations in Part 97, and Riley is on duty, or hasn't anyone been paying attention to the enforcement letters (a public record) lately. #To the no-coders, no, Morse Code does not make a person a better op in and of itself, but it certainly does instill self discipline in those that take the time and effort to learn it and ACTUALLY use it. #Yes, I too have met #Old Timers that learned 20wpm Morse Code to get their upgrade and once the test was passed never used Morse again, but I've also met Technician class licensees who use Morse for UHF-VHF weak signal work. #Morse Code is still the only digital mode able to be decoded by the human brain, and is almost the defacto mode for those of us that enjoy QRP. #Although, I'm a QRP Op, I am also a realist and will use more than five watts if conditions warrant. #The sheer simplicity, and low price, of simple Morse only gear is another reason more and more ops are utilizing our oldest mode. #Morse IS able to get through alot of times when phone and or digital modes won't. #Morse Code's sheer simplicity is why the United States Army Speical Forces (Green Berets) still require that their communications sergeants to maintain a 13wpm proficiency in the Morse Code. #If the excrement hits the oscilating device those sergeants can touch two wires together and get a message through. #
# # # The debate of no-code/pro-code will become moot if widespread implemtation of BPL goes ahead...We'll all lose.
# # #To both sides of this debate, have you ever heard the expression "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"? # #Now is the time for all hams to realize we are in this together.
73
de
Wayne K9DI
k9di@NOSPAMk9di.org
www.k9di.org
Proud Flying Pig #217

[k7fd]

This is an open forum; quit telling people what they can and cannot say. I enjoy reading every post...the good, bad, and the ugly. Most people are intelligent enough to decipher which ones merit additional thought and which ones don't. Keep your police work to the split pileups on 20 meters...

If you've got something to contribute, say it. If you're going to have a tizzy fit over the thread, then go somewhere else where it won't upset your stomach. In the meantime, don't play high and mighty.

73 John K7FD

[k7fd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9DI @ Sep. 18 2003,01:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello to no-coders/pro-coders,
# # # Wayne K9DI here. #I've read through 9 pages of bickering, bashing and flaming... #ENOUGH DAMMIT!!!!! #Both sides of this issue need to back off and cool down...am I mad? #YOU BET I AM!!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
sheesh, someone needs to cool down, that's for sure...

[KD7EV]

I don't know what all the fuss is about...My God...5 wpm code is like saying I know my ABC's...to those who are raising all the fuss....YOU DO KNOW YOUR ABC's DON'T YOU?

[zl3jt]

de Jungle Telegraph
A fair number of the contributors to this debate have lost the plot, lost their tempers, and have demonstrated quite illogical arguments. I am a DXer. I work DX. I work all modes, CW, RTTY, PSK and believe it or not SSB sometimes. It is a great pity for future DXers, that the learning of the code will no longer be necessary for an Amateur Radio License. There is already a band allocated for those who don't want to learn morse code...I think it's somewhere around 27mhz?
I use Morse code almost exclusively on 6m. It is the best mode for DXing on VHF. The proof is in my log on just how good Morse code is for DXing on any band...
Morse code will continue to be used for weak signal work, because it is far superior to Slop bucket mode when conditions are poor, or the power is minimal.
All I ask is of the "no-coders" is if you hear a CW signal, and morse code is permitted anywhere within the amateur bands, remember that it maybe one of your fellow amateurs having a QSO, and you just might be interferring with that QSO, and if you continue to ignore the CW signal, it could be classed as 'deliberate interference'. Likewise, a CW operator could be interferring with a slop bucket QSO...but how would you find out who it is?......
A great pity for me is that gaining DXCC Honour Roll in CW will be more difficult!
73 ZL3JT
(Japanese Technology for the no-coders) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[K2WH]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K0RGR @ Sep. 16 2003,15:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where have you been travelling that 2 meters sounds like CB?

I keep seeing this complaint, and I wonder what I'm missing, because I have travelled all over this country with my 2 meter rig on, and have never heard anything that resembles CB, with the exception of one local 25-year Extra who drinks a bit too much, and starts shouting 'Come on Back' whenever Echolink connects to somebody.

That's not to say I've not seen problems. There are jammers in Chicago - I suspect there always have been - we sure had lots of them out in California. #But that was back when all classes had a code test - it didn't stop the bootleggers or the truly antisocial. #We had a YL bootlegger in the Twin Cities recently that obviously thought she was on CB - once she was told otherwise, she shut up and we haven't heard her since.

I guess if I had a problem talking to truckers, I might develop a phobia about two meters, because there are a lot of 18-wheeler jockies out there. #The ones I've worked are all gentlemen, and operate properly. #Maybe you have an outlaw element in your vicinity.

Perhaps you expect to have a conversation with a white-collar professional every time you turn on the rig? I still think that's highly likely, but yes - we've broadened the range of people involved by eliminating the Tech code test, and that's not necessarily bad. To get past this sort of thing, try to find out what the newbie is interested in. I think you'll be amazed at the range of interests you'll find that you have in common. Yes, it is not always easy to do this, either - some younger people are much too easily offended by elders trying to give unsolicited advice.

Mostly what I hear on 2 meters is silence when I'm on the road, except near major metro areas and in many small isolated pockets of activity, where the operating rules are whatever the newbies dreamed up, because there are no oldtimers on to teach them better. I attribute this to the loss of most new hams in the last decade because they rapidly get bored with 2 meters and move on to other pursuits. That's primarily why I support granting limited HF priveleges to the Techs.

The outlaws are not int