FCC ZAPS SELLER OF ILLEGAL 10M RIGS!

Source - ARRL website - FCC enforcement letters, 05 Sep 03.

A small start.. but a start, none the less!
-----------------
August 15, 2003
Mr. Randi W. Owen
902 W Veterans Street
Tomah, WI 54660

Re: Amateur license N9UOM Application for Renewal;

Non-Certified Radio Equipment Marketing Case #2002-312

Dear Mr. Owen:

Your application for renewal of your Amateur Radio license, filed July 14, 2003, has been forwarded to this office for review.

On June 18, 2002 the Commission notified you that it appeared, based on Internet Web site www.tomah.com/n9uom/magnum.htm that through Roper Electronics you are marketing non-certified CB transceivers (such as the Connex model 3900) and non-certified HF linear amplifiers in violation of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and Commission rules. Information before the Commission indicates that you are the owner of Roper Electronics.

The June 2002 letter advised you that Section 302(b) of the Communications Act provides that "[n]o person shall manufacture, sell, import, offer for sale or ship devices or home electronic equipment and systems, or use devices, which fail to comply with regulations promulgated pursuant to this section". Section 2.803(a)(1) of the rules provides that "...no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease), or import, ship or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any radio frequency device unless: (1) In the case of a device subject to certification, such device has been authorized by the Commission in accordance with the rules in this chapter and is properly identified and labeled..."

We requested information regarding the marketing of such devices from you pursuant to Section 308(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and advised you that violations of the Communications Act or the Commission's rules may subject you to monetary forfeiture of up to $11,000 for each such violation or each day of continuing violation, seizure of equipment through in rem forfeiture action, and criminal sanctions including imprisonment.

Finally, the June letter notified you that the Commission may refer for criminal prosecution any violation of its equipment certification prohibitions; and it will initiate enforcement action against your Amateur license, including revocation and suspension as well as monetary forfeiture.

Your response to that letter was unspecific as to what actions you were taking to make certain that you were in compliance with our marketing rules.

In order to determine what action to take on your application, we need more information regarding the types of equipment you may be marketing and the certification numbers of any devices required to be certified. In accordance with Section 308(b) of the Communications Act, you are requested to furnish this information within 20 days.

Failure to respond will result in the dismissal of your application. We are required to advise you that a willfully false or misleading response to a letter of this type has been made punishable by Congress.
CC: FCC Northeast Regional Director
=========================================

Randi has no valid license at this time: expired 24-Aug-2003.
Connex radios, 120 channels of FM, AM and SSB, rather interesting. CB like toys, wouldn't you say?
10 meter radios with channels, interesting.
Enjoy Randi how the Federal Government works.
Tah-Tah.

[ke4pjw]

The wayback machine remembers everything (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.tomah.com/n9uom/magnum.htm) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KL7FZ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K3FT @ Sep. 05 2003,09:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Failure to respond will result in the dismissal of your application. We are required to advise you that a willfully false or misleading response to a letter of this type has been made punishable by Congress.
CC: FCC Northeast Regional Director
=========================================[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Upon reading this paragraph I had a vision of the guy strapped over a chair, butt up, and all the members of Congress filing by in a line, each taking a whack at the guy with a big paddle. Just a weird thought.

Terry, it just sorta tell me a wonderful true story.
454 channels, I just didn't know that the CB Channels accured new channels.
410 additional channels, cannot recall the FCC making an announcement, has anyone heard about these new 410 channels?
The Goose gets cooked, alot of fat too.
This isn't done in the United States against Federal Laws, is it?
And to even think this, one Goose at a time be cooked.
I've just lost my composure, my tears have saturated my largest snot rag. I'm all chocked up.
GIVE&quot;EM WHAT THEY DESERVE RILEY AND CRANK UP THE HEAT.
Glad we can help. One at a time.
O Riley, O Riley, O Riley O. Another one bites the dust.
This is &quot;The PIG&quot; K

[k5co]

Radio Shack sold ten meter rigs for years, because they sold well to the illegal users. They never hoped for much business from the Ham community for those rigs.

It IS interesting that it is illegal for a citizen to lie to a federal employee (post office or anywhere). But they can lie to us as they please.

rC

[ky5u]

Get the ol' Evinrude in the Cesspool cranked up..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif


"Yeah, he doesn't need to renew his license becasue NCI promised him he could talk skip soon on Ham radio. FCC will be taking away code testing any day soon!!!" (Heard at a truck stop the other day).

[ka2fir]

The FCC is about 20 years late taking any kind of action against these scumbags who pollute the spectrum WE have been allocated. When will they shutdown Copper and the other scumbags. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WA7KKP]

Is there a .pdf or other file of this letter online?

I'd like to print up some copies to give to the proprietors of truck stops, and other vendors of these so-called 'ham transceivers', just to let them know that they are playing with a loaded gun.

Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP

[N5RLR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA7KKP @ Sep. 06 2003,12:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>...I'd like to print up some copies to give to the proprietors of truck stops, and other vendors of these so-called 'ham transceivers', just to let them know that they are playing with a loaded gun.</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>The "gun" is loaded with money. #So long as those who sell these rigs can make a profit, the're not going to care about the law.

Sorry to say it, but it's the truth. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif</span>

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif would do no good to post those kind of notices on bulletin boards or on the doors of truck stops, just get ripped down and thrown in the floor ( if they got THAT far )...with those kind of folks you can only get their attention by " hitting them in the WALLET "... threatening them with letters or words does NO good...you already know that http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[W7WV]

I think the only reason this guy got nailed is that he had a license, and knew better.

[w6th]

Another CB'er bites the dust.

Line up, who will be next?

[KA2LIM]

Way TOO little, way way TOO late.....

[wa4ja]

I guess the FCC's travel budget is gone and they've never stopped in a Truck Stops of America. All they hav e to do is mill around the coffee machine until they sell a Galaxy 900 channel SSB rig to a CBer and bust them all. I guess the FCC staying at scales and spot checking trucks never got off the ground, either.
Do what I do....don't buy anything from TA and stick with Flying J and others who don't sell ham rigs to CBers.
When I hear truckers being *#*@-holes on ham spectrum, it is usually in a spot where it isn't in use. Use it, or lose it!

[w6th]

wa4ja

Having not been a good listener of the CB, I know little of what was going on, especially the bad stuff.

The FCC has always been very fair and lenient with offenders.
Most times a short letter to inform the wrong of why the wrong, you then reply to their letter the explanation of the wrong. Simple as that. The FCC is one we do not play games with and we should all obey their rules and regulations. #If this were the case, I myself will welcome many to the ham game. All licensed or going to be are welcome to join the ranks of ham radio and I say this with all honesty.

I look forward to over one million hams, good ones and zero bad ones.

This is my hope and will look forward to seeing this in the near future.

I forgot: # # # # # # 73, W6TH

# # # # # # # # # # -------------------------

[k4wri]

Well Hell I have to find a new place to get my modified trucking radios and amps.What a shame.There's nothing like the sound of my galaxy 66 on 10m with the echo cranked up.CQCQCQCQ.10-4


All comments are and will always be politically incorrect and subversive

[n8ary]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Ranger wanted to be a legit player in the ham market they would not put Echo and Roger beep on their tranceivers and sell to dealers who market all kinds of garbage, noise producers and super echo mics. Look at Coppper Electronics listings sometimes, I agree with the previous post, you need to hit this stuff at the root, not pick a leaf here and there.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I am against the selling of this type of equipment. #Something I don't get is why folks are willing to pay almost as much for a 20 watt piece of this noise-making garbage as hams are paying for all HF band, all mode, 100 watt rigs.

[n8zux]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #GR8 to hear the F.C.C. has taken action ! the big thing is that we should post reports to the FCC the location of every Illeagle 10M. Radio Dealer, as well 11 Meter Linear Amps. I heard from some trucker that he was told a big lie, 10M. was open like it was free band, I said you need a Amateur Radio License and I have a General Class Ticket with 5 WPM Morse code. boy that went over like a lead ballon #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #I even once purchased a 2M. rig at one place for $15.00 just to insure that someone unlicesened did not buy it, & I used it until it quit working.

I also been to radio swaps where someone is selling a old 11Meter Linear amp. along with a bunch of dusty junk and other Illeagle stuff, I boycotted his table, and the clown was putting on a big story of how he needs the money to get home, I said I am on a Budget and walked away. #

Even so often I see a dealer with illeagle dirty gear I make sure to others that the stuff is illeagle and next year usually these people will not return. #It's also amazing how someone posting his illeagle 11Meter / 10 Meter activity and act as a 11M. CBer on this post I know he is advertising his shortness of people who may not want to talk to him on HF, a well advertising to the FCC as well O.O. that he engages or suppourts such thinking. #I use 10 Meters mostly monitoring, and call CQ when I can.

If the FCC was truly interested in removing illegal radios from the Children's Band (CB) Radio Service, then all they need to do is have their field engineers take their CB's to the truck stops and ask the CB shops to "tweak" the radio for better performance! If they leave the shop with a radio that puts out more than 4 Watts, then they have a criminal case against the CB shop!!!!

But alas, they don't care!

Another sting they could do is to set-up shop at several of these CB shops at one time and when the truckers bring their modified rigs in for service, they could sieze the radio and have the truckers arrested on the spot for illegal equipment!

But alas, they don't care!

Connex has been a known radio name in the trucker market for years! It is about time that the FCC takes legal action! Now if they would just pursue the vulgaity that takes place on CB! And how about picking up the Lot Lizzards that use the CB to get customers for their illegal activity? It would move the case against them from a state offense into a federal offense!

I'm not holding my breath for the FCC to actually take action!

AD5OP

[wixy]

Regular or Extra Crispy? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc8www]

From what I know. Most truck stops only sell the radios as they come from the manufacturer. Wich as long as they're type accepted and ten meter. It doesnt mater who theyre sold to. CBer or ham operator. Its places like CB shops that convert them to operate on CB channels that are breaking the law. Even if a 10 meter radio is sold to a non-ham, its not illegal. The radio manufacturer, or the dealer isnt responsible for transmitting out of band, the owner is. Part 97 says that a ham operator can use a modified CB on 10 M. Or even a modified commercial radio on 2M or 440, but never a modified ham tranceiver for use on a band for which its not type accepted.

BTW Radio Sold a 10 M radio that was FM and Lower Side Band and couldn't be modified.

[n8zux]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc8www @ Sep. 06 2003,22:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From what I know. Most truck stops only sell the radios as they come from the manufacturer. Wich as long as they're type accepted and ten meter. It doesnt mater who theyre sold to. CBer or ham operator. Its places like CB shops that convert them to operate on CB channels that are breaking the law. Even if a 10 meter radio is sold to a non-ham, its not illegal. The radio manufacturer, or the dealer isnt responsible for transmitting out of band, the owner is. Part 97 says that a ham operator can use a modified CB on 10 M. Or even a modified commercial radio on 2M or 440, but never a modified ham tranceiver for use on a band for which its not type accepted.

BTW Radio Sold a 10 M radio that was FM and Lower Side Band and couldn't be modified.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Part 97 says that a ham operator can use a modified CB on 10 M. Or even a modified commercial radio on 2M or 440, but never a modified ham tranceiver for use on a band for which its not type accepted.

Mind if I ask where in Part 97 says that ? I have a July 2003 copy and do not see where its stated as such could you give me sub parts to this ? just wondering ?

[W4KVW]

You ain't heard"NOTHING"! You should just listen up and down the band here in N.Florida & S.Georgia from just above and below the Two Meter band.There are more Hunting Clubs and GOOD Ole boys with Mars mods on Two Meter mobile rigs than you can shake a stick at on Friday nights and Saturday mornings during local hunting season sounds like the CB band on the interstate!(I am not aganst hunting,I also hunt) Pretty busy even durng the rest of the year also on the weekend nights.More and more are telling their friends so they can keep in touch with each other with SOME privacy! They aso keep up with the local Police and use them to avoid them also! The abuse is getting as bad as the opened up 10 Meter rigs here and sometimes WORSE!Most I am hearing are saying they are buying them fom ebay and other web sites and having someone mod them when they get them.

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n8zux @ Sep. 06 2003,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[

Mind if I ask where in Part 97 says that ? I have a July 2003 copy and do not see where its stated as such could you give me sub parts to this ? #just wondering ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
================================================== =============

N8ZUX:
The FCC rules for part 97 do not SPECIFY modified CB, military, or any other particular type of equipment. Amateur Radio Operators are allowed to modify any and all types of equipment for use on Amateur Radio Frequencies (within that person's privileges) as long as it conforms to the "emissions standards." Also, in Part 95, the posession of an "HF linear amp" by a CB operator, or any other service, is presumed illegal, UNLESS the person also holds a licence (Such as An Amateur Radio License) for a service that permits such an amplifier.
As Amateur Radio Operators, we are the ONLY service under FCC rules that can modify any kind of radio gear, and use it legally, as long as it's on an Amateur frequency, and follows the "emission standards" rules. But once modified, that equipment can no longer be used for it's service. (Part 97.315(a) gives the restrictions on building or modifying such amps.)

[kc0ceg]

I'll have to agree with one of the other comments. If they do away with the code then what will happen next----LOOK IN YOUR MAIL BOX THIS YEAR YOU HAVE JUST BECOME A HAM RADIO OPERATOR COMPLIMENT'S OF THE FCC-----TALK WHERE YOU WANT---Just think of the crap on hf then---and you thought chan. 19 was bad-----I've been mon. 10mtr for the last 3 weeks and from 28.200 to 28.040 is already being taken over by truck driver's and several letters have been sent to Mr. hollingsworth and guess what ---It's still going on so what doe's that tell us about what will happen NEXT. I had to get my ticket the hard way --lot's of study and hard work to get my code and HF priv. Myself I think that the FCC need's to be restructerd not the way you get your lic. you can open any radio book and find radio's that don't meet FCC requirment's---Something is bad wrong if they just now found this one
AND EVERYONE WONDER'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HAM RADIO---HOW COME NO ONE IS ON THE RADIO ANYMORE
LOOK AT THE NEW ULS AND IT WILL TELL YOU=====THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHT ABOUT THE WHOLE THING AND I WILL ALWAY'S FEEL THIS WAY UNTILL THE CODE COME'S BACK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[N5RLR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ceg @ Sep. 06 2003,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span style='color:red'>...If they do away with the code then what will happen next----LOOK IN YOUR MAIL BOX THIS YEAR YOU HAVE JUST BECOME A HAM RADIO OPERATOR COMPLIMENT'S OF THE FCC-----TALK WHERE YOU WANT---Just think of the crap on hf then---and you thought chan. 19 was bad...</span>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<span style='color:blue'>I just have to ask, I just have to...why is it, no matter what the topic of discussion here, someone has to turn it into a bleeping Code/No-Code whine?</span> http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[N8HE]

As an X-Truck Driver I've been in CB shops in most every state in the Union. Export Radio's, and Modified Ham Radio's can be had anywhere. A lot of the shops will open up a ARRL Call Book and issue you a call sign to use on the ham bands when you purchase one of these radio's. And talk about amplifiers, how about a driver to drive a driver that is driving 10,000 watts, some guys run three amplifiers to each antenna, using a "T" at the radio.

BTw.,.. if you, as a licensed Radio Amateur, are operating on the ham bands... (say 10M or 2M) and you are using the mode that is authorized by the FCC for use within that band segment and you hear ILLEGAL operators you can LEGALLY just transmit atop them without any fear of prosecution?

Yep.. you can.

Illegals have NO rights or priveledges but YOU do. So.. as we do on 10M.. we hear illegals on 10M in the ham bands.

We choose a mode that is FCC authorized for that segment. We then send code practice, AM, PSK31, RTTY, SSB. May call CQ.. may run test transmissions (ID of course!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif or just send bulletins orpractice CW for other hams.

Funny thing... whenwe stop.. the illegals have either moved or complain! Either way.. it busts up their QSO's.

Enough of us do this on 10M and 2M.. theywill find it easier to move OR quit than fight.

There are MORE of us.. then them!

And to those who say it doesn't work.. you are wrong!
We are doing it on 10M and we have objective proof that the illegals are either QSY'ing while we are on or have difficulty QSO while we are on.

[kr6g]

We have a Ham here in Plumas county, that has been selling them for years, and a dollar a watt amps, marine radios ect. sent riley a certified letter giving details and all other information and they never had done any thing. Looks like selected enforcement. He must have made someone mad to get the attention.

Alex kr6g

[N6TGK]

"The radio manufacturer, or the dealer isnt responsible for transmitting out of band, the owner is."

In a way that's too bad... we've told the gun manufacturers that if someone uses their gun in a commission of crime that they're responsible, judging by all the lawsuits brought against them. Maybe we amateurs should bring lawsuits against Galaxy, Connex and Texas Ranger claiming damage to our bands caused by illegal operators. I know it sounds stupid but then so did that case where a woman won $3 MILLION from McDonald's because SHE WAS STUPID and spilled hot coffee on herself.

I agree with the post about starting a QSO on top of these illegal operators. I've seen debate on this but the bottom line is they're operating illegally. How can I cause harmful interference to someone who isn't supposed to be there in the first place. I hear these clowns from 28.000 all the way up to 29.000... usually the bottom half of the band. And you can ALWAYS tell a trucker from an amateur. He's the one with the echo mic, and if he doesn't have an echo mic, he's running AM on frequencies ending in 5 and 10KHz spacing (28.205, 28.215, 28.225). I've called CQ, tested my radio... all of it legally to get these guys to move. Usually they just QSY to another frequency in the 10 meter band... or 12 meters (which isn't as bad.... yet). Most of the time though, I'm hearing the truckers on Es and they may hear me, but the two of them are only about 1/4 mile apart and aren't bothered by my transmissions.

The FCC HAS taken action against some trucking companies who's drivers have been caught using illegal radios. But it takes a lot of work on OUR behalf to get it done. In the cases I've read about, it took a HAM listening to the conversation, taping it, and then just being lucky enough to find the offending driver on the freeway and writing down the information and possibly taking pictures. Now that I have my FT-100 back up and running in the truck, I'm going to start listening to 10M more often when on long drives. I just might get lucky.

[kd7ota]

Wow,

I heard a few topics like this, about owning illegal equipment. I guess I will put in my two cents.

Back in the day before I knew of amateur radio. My oldest brother's friend has this house CB. Not sure what features it exactly had, but I know that there was this attachment to it. It was something around the lines of a 50watt or 100watt amp. Since I was around 8 or so then, I never knew owning stuff like that is illegal.

Another probably illegal eqipment is when my real dad had this old tube 500watt amplifier and this really big 10meter/11meter antenna for it. The transceiver was some old style homebase cobra radio. He did tell me that he could use it to talk to people back in Mexico, and he even had the markings on the amp to adjust to use the best performance.



Dont worry all of you, the equipment that my real dad has died out ALONG time ago, maybe 10 or so years ago. My bro's best friend's radio hasnt been touched since, so dont worry.


I honestly dont know what to do to stop the abuse of the outside bands. Too bad as amateurs, the FCC couldnt form some kind of alliance where there would be a group of people and go out and if they suspect someone owning illegal radio equipment, to just open up the radio, and if it looks modified, then just confenscate (take away) the radio from them, no questions asked......

But the bad side about it is, maybe some trucker will just beat you up as soon as you try to take away their radio. Maybe take the police with you when you try to get them for having illegal radios.

As for the whole Morse code thingy people keep talking about......... I am 17yrs old and I love morse code. I dont know it quite yet, but I know its an interesting way of communications. Sure there will be a few of you that wont like it at all, but thats ok. There are us that would enjoy using it. If the FCC takes it off, then they do. But I want to learn morse code even if its not required. Just be happy that we can still operate the way we want to operate. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hope this helped a few of you.

73s
kd7ota

[n5bj]

I sent Riley an emailasking if I would be charged with intentional intereference if I was to transmit on top of the illegal CB operators in the 10 meter band. His rely was "not at all as they are the one that are out of band." Since then I often call CQ on top of them using RTTY, 100 watts, and a beam antenna. AM and FM drives them off frequency.

[N8CPA]

Would you believe it? #Illegals have tried to QRM my CW QSOs. #The first time was during the '95 10 meter contest. #I had the filter wide enough to understand every foul--hey on Chicken Band, should that be "fowl?"--thing he said to his "good buddy," about the guy with the "##$$ beep-beeps."

Another time was during Field Day Sunday morning. #But that guy must have had a TNC, because he tried to QRM me on AM MCW by sending random letters with his #keyboard. #Apparently couldn't figure out what the "CW" on his rig meant, if it had such a mode. #Probably lacked sufficient IQ to experiment. # #

The jerks were unsuccessful on both occasions. #They finally went elsewhere, with a final obscenity. #I have to admit, I enjoyed pissing them off! #Neither did they stop a single QSO, and I was running much less power!

It's funny how effective CW is as bootlegger and lid repellant!

!!

[N4LVX]

I'm not too sure I follow the whole concept of "illegal equipment" in the first place. What are we to say about the numerous older AM radios that are fully capable of transmiting on 11 meters as well as others? Does this mean that I'm in possession of "illegal equipment" because I own a Johnson Viking Valiant, or, were I to sell it would I be somehow trafficking illegal merchandise? Gimme a break.

For some strange reason I had the notion that it was the operator that made something illegal and not the hardware he was using. If this is all these guys (the FCC) can do with our tax dollars I'm not too optimistic for the future. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

73,

Paul

[K6UEY]

73 = BEST REGARDS
#73's = BEST REGARDS'es
# #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[n8ary]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll have to agree with one of the other comments. If they do away with the code then what will happen next----LOOK IN YOUR MAIL BOX THIS YEAR YOU HAVE JUST BECOME A HAM RADIO OPERATOR COMPLIMENT'S OF THE FCC-----TALK WHERE YOU WANT---Just think of the crap on hf then---and you thought chan. 19 was bad-----I've been mon. 10mtr for the last 3 weeks and from 28.200 to 28.040 is already being taken over by truck driver's and several letters have been sent to Mr. hollingsworth and guess what ---[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

These are freebanders, NOT hams. #If we had more hams on the HF bands to police this sort of activity, it might not be so rampant. #These ignorant freebanders have NOTHING to do with code/no code, so your premise for inserting it into this thread is not valid.

Sorry- Try again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not too sure I follow the whole concept of "illegal equipment" in the first place. What are we to say about the numerous older AM radios that are fully capable of transmiting on 11 meters as well as others? Does this mean that I'm in possession of "illegal equipment" because I own a Johnson Viking Valiant, or, were I to sell it would I be somehow trafficking illegal merchandise? Gimme a break.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

It's OK for you to own and sell it. #Its MANUFACTURING AND SELLING NEW EQUIPMENT TO NON-HAMS that's the problem. #If you use the your old Yaesu on 11 meters, then you're breaking the law. #You as a ham are allowed to modify a CB to transmit on 10 meters and put an amp on it to bring it up to the maximum legal limit of the band. #You just can't take that CB back to 11 meters in that condition. #If the reason the equipment is manufactured is for use in an illegal way, then I think that's the criteria of "illegal equipment."

But then my circle of thinking comes your way a little. If I buy one of these illegal 10 meter rigs and use it on 10 meters, I am not breaking any laws. OK- I think you're right. The operator has to be responsible for his use of the equipment.

[WA7KKP]

To add a postscript to this discussion about ham gear modified for CB operation -----

I remember when Swan introduced the 1011, as a way to encourage 10 meter operations. Didn't take long to figure out how to snip a wire and use it on the 11 meter spectrum. And the ham fraternity began a letter-writing response to Swan to take it off the market.

They just put it out under the Siltronix name and sold them to the burgeoning freeband CB market. And pandora's box was opened even wider with the Yaesu FT101 series. Who doesn't know about the yellow wire on the bandswitch? Even had a nice hole so you could find it and snip it.

Yes, dollars do drive that market. I intend to make copies of the letter with a cover letter to truck stop owners, with a copy sent to the FCC district office in Kansas City. This is merely a nice 'courteous' warning, and the FCC can handle the rest.

Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP

[W9JCM]

Yes its time something is done , But guess what he will beat the rap. They might be able to hold him from getting a ham ticket but they wont from selling the equipment. Its a 1934 law it wont work just watch the courts. There needs to be revisment of the laws not acting on old crap thats way out of date to the times.

[WA9SVD]

"No amateur
operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal." §97.101(d)


It seems to me the rule is pretty clear. It doesn't specify legal or illegal signal. It simply says "any communication or signal."

[kc8www]

<!--QuoteBegin--kc0ceg+Sep. 06 2003,22:53
Quote[/b] (kc0ceg @ Sep. 06 2003,22:53
[color=blue)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just have to ask, I just have to...why is it, no matter what the topic of discussion here, someone has to turn it into a bleeping Code/No-Code whine? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Youre right.

It always does. And maybe Mr Phil has to say it bluntly. Morse code doesnt keep rif-raf off HAM bands.

And some other things to point out to the hopelessly dense:

More laws won't help anything.

It's already illegal to use a firearm in the commision of a crime.

Its illegal to steal anything regardless of how you intend to use it.

Its illegal to use HAM frequencies without a license.

Yet all these things still happen. I wonder why.

[KD7WHQ]

N6TGK, and all others..

There is a bill, nearly passed, that will bar lawsuits against manufacturers for misuse of their products. Including firearms.

About time..

[kd5boc]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0ceg @ Sep. 06 2003,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll have to agree with one of the other comments. If they do away with the code then what will happen next----LOOK IN YOUR MAIL BOX THIS YEAR YOU HAVE JUST BECOME A HAM RADIO OPERATOR COMPLIMENT'S OF THE FCC-----TALK WHERE YOU WANT---Just think of the crap on hf then---and you thought chan. 19 was bad-----I've been mon. 10mtr for the last 3 weeks and from 28.200 to 28.040 is already being taken over by truck driver's and several letters have been sent to Mr. hollingsworth and guess what ---It's still going on #so what doe's that tell us about what will happen NEXT. #I had to get my ticket the hard way --lot's of study and hard work to get my code and HF priv. Myself I think that the FCC need's to be restructerd not the way you get your lic. you can open any radio book and find radio's that don't meet FCC requirment's---Something is bad wrong if they just now found this one
AND EVERYONE WONDER'S WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HAM RADIO---HOW COME NO ONE IS ON THE RADIO ANYMORE
LOOK AT THE NEW ULS AND IT WILL TELL YOU=====THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHT ABOUT THE WHOLE THING AND I WILL ALWAY'S FEEL THIS WAY UNTILL THE CODE COME'S BACK #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry...but if that is the case...then where are all the lot lizards and 10-4's on 6, 2, or 440?

Hmmm...seems that just because there is not code does not mean that it will be a free for all.

C'mon people...we all agree that code is useful...and just because they will no longer require it to get a license does not mean that people will not learn it. I was that way with packet. They don't require a "talk" test to get to talk FM or SSB...Why should they require a CW test to do CW?

As far as the 10m rigs go...kinda funny how Galaxy, Connex, Ranger makes 10m rigs with channels. Yes they are illegal for 11m use...but does that mean that they cannot be used on 10m?

Just a thought. And yes...we are listening. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Tom
kd5boc

[K8YS]

Gentleman (well, some of you),

You are missing an important point here... these transceivers are legal communications devices... they have been FCC certified or they would never have gotten past Customs.

There is a point where the USER must take the rap for operating the radio.

I think that MOST will agree that these are basically expensive CB's (read that as JUNK that very few self-respecting Hams would want to own), but for the DESIGNED USE, they meet current FCC regs.


Devices that are not FCC certified can be collected up at the point of sale by the Customs department, since this is not happening, then the ball is in the FCC's court. They need to find sellers and users and make an example. Fine the snot out of the trucking company, taxi company, make it so the user is affraid to get caught. Enforce current laws!

We as hams have a responcibilty to do our part to keep these devices from improper use too. One way is to not answer questions posted to QRZ or eHam when some one says "how do I modify ____"

just my humble opinion.

[w5nl]

From the "It seems to me" department.

It seems to me that there are a lot of hams that worry about what happens on the 11 meter band. What kind of radio they're running, power levels, and operating practices. Amateurs claim that they are dealing with interference on the 10 meter band. I live .75 miles from interstate 30 here it Texas and I never hear interference from truckers and freebanders on 10(except the spanish speaking stations). Not that I condone these actions, but I am never bothered.

My point. Don't we have enough to worry about in our own amateur bands i.e. BPL, Licensing, and 40 meters? Why are we expending our time and resources on something like this? Seems silly to persecute the lowly truck driver or the truck stop C.B. shop because their radios can be modded to transmit 30 watts. For a truck driver a C.B. is an invaluable safety tool in their industry and with 4 watts it might as well be a receiver 'cause you will not be heard.

Another question. If we enforced the rules and confiscated all of the non type accepted C.B. rigs, what would that get us amatuers? Perhaps a quiet 11 meter band. I am an amatuer radio operator. I could give a $**T less what happens on the 11 meter band. In my opinion anyone else other than the FCC that worries about the operating practices on the 11 meter band has too much time on their hands. IMHO 73 de n5blm

[ke4zhn]

Good, now what about the other umpteen thousand dealers of illegal gear? Too little, too late....... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n5blm @ Sep. 07 2003,06:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From the "It seems to me" department.

It seems to me that there are a lot of hams that worry about what happens on the 11 meter band. What kind of radio they're running, power levels, and operating practices. Amateurs claim that they are dealing with interference on the 10 meter band. I live .75 miles from interstate 30 here it Texas and I never hear interference from truckers and freebanders on 10(except the spanish speaking stations). Not that I condone these actions, but I am never bothered.

My point. Don't we have enough to worry about in our own amateur bands i.e. BPL, Licensing, and 40 meters? Why are we expending our time and resources on something like this? Seems silly to persecute the lowly truck driver or the truck stop C.B. shop because their radios can be modded to transmit 30 watts. For a truck driver a C.B. is an invaluable safety tool in their industry and with 4 watts it might as well be a receiver 'cause you will not be heard.

Another question. If we enforced the rules and confiscated all of the non type accepted C.B. rigs, what would that get us amatuers? Perhaps a quiet 11 meter band. I am an amatuer radio operator. I could give a $**T less what happens on the 11 meter band. In my opinion anyone else other than the FCC that worries about the operating practices on the 11 meter band has too much time on their hands. IMHO 73 de n5blm[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Brian,
You are missing the point... this is our problem! #It would not be a problem for us (we users of 10 meters) if they were to stay in thier little spectrum, but they migrate like locusts and soon we hear them inside the Amateur 10 meter band.

I live 100 YARDS away from I-75, and I hear truckers in my stereo, my phones, they trigger the alarm system and they cause the neighbors to look at ME (the guy down the street with all those antennas.

The majority of hams could care less what happens on other bands as long as it does not effect us, but this issue effects us directly.



and ke4zhn it is not illegal gear, it is FCC certified (for what ever reason) but think of it as guns or steroids, it is the USE that is illegal.

Bob K8YS

[wb9gkz]

Rewind tape to 1970....I was a CB-kid back then, 15 years old. #I visited Amateur Electronic Supply's store on FonduLac Avenue in Milwaukee. #They had a big CB counter that was very popular. #I asked for and obtained a hand-drawn three-page diagram and layout drawing for a Sweep Tube "linear amplifier" from one of their #counter salesmen. #He then directed me to the parts bins where you could buy all the parts, tube sockets, chokes, etc to construct the amplifier. #AES did this for years.

Well, I see that AES is still in business. #Guess that there was no Riley around back then. #

Another thought: #We hams whine and worry about the influx of "illegal" 10-meter radio's burdening our airwaves while we allow our U.S. borders #to be wide open to any illegal entrant that wants to threaten our nation or hold a job. #Where are our priorities as a Nation?

[ad5td]

Is the problem that he was just selling the radios themseves or that he was selling them to unlicenced people? Heck AES and HRO sell Ranger 2950's and 70's. You don't see any one go after them. They do ask for your call however.

[w5nl]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wb9gkz @ Sep. 08 2003,12:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Another thought: #We hams whine and worry about the influx of "illegal" 10-meter radio's burdening our airwaves while we allow our U.S. borders #to be wide open to any illegal entrant that wants to threaten our nation or hold a job. #Where are our priorities as a Nation?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AMEN brother!! Exactly my thoughts when I wrote the "Seems silly" comment. 73 de n5blm

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5UJX @ Sep. 08 2003,14:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is the problem that he was just selling the radios themseves or that he was selling them to unlicenced people? #Heck AES and HRO sell Ranger 2950's and 70's. #You don't see any one go after them. #They do ask for your call however.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD5UJX:

The problem is that the pieces of equipment themselves are not legal to sell (or import, etc.) in this country because they do not comply with FCC regulations. (It doesn't matter to whom he sold the equipment.) They are not "TYPE ACCEPTED" and do not comply with Part §97.315 and §97.317, which basically rule out sale of any kind of amplifier (for use below 144 MHz) that would be useful for illegal "CB" operation; one of the requirements is that the MINIMUM driving power be at least 50 Watts.

Also. Part §95 specifies that posession of an amplifier that CAN be driven by less that 50 watts, (such as a 5 W +/- CB transceiver) is assumed to be in violation, whether actually in use or not. (There are some detailed exceptions.) The baisc EXCEPTION is if you hold a license (such as an Amateur Radio License) thast allows use of such an amplifier.

Not clearly stated, but probably the norm is that many of the amps that are not type accepted will NOT have the necessary filtering to meet the FCC's "emmission standards" for spectral purity. (Think about it: If you are building or selling an amp that's already illegal, why bother about a detail such as filtering and harmonic suppression? )

I'd like to see this fellow and all of the sellers and users of the illegal equipment shut down, and at least off the air. THERE! THAT'S MY STAND on the issue. I do not support ILLEGAL (and I stress illegal) operation on CB, "Freebanding" or whatever you wish to call it. If it's illegal, it should be stopped. Unfortunately, the FCC doesn't have the staff or funds to go after everyone.

For the fine details, and specific exceptions, you can check out the rules and regulations at the FCC website.

Bravo, this was long overdue.

[Phineas]

I am not impressed. Once again the FCC has gone after an easy target. A person with a license.

Lets face it, as long as there is a big money engine called "CB", and they keep allowing these radio to be manufactured, these activities will continue to be a problem. One of the biggest problems with enforcement is the profit margin. Let us face it, there is a low profit margin on ham gear being sold to hams. A CBer will pay $500 dollars for a $100 dollar radio. There are also a lot more of them than there are of us.

Frankly when I see them shut down or do an enforcement action on the people who make this stuff, then I will see a true direction to solve this problem. Til then, we will continue to check FCC letters for spelling errors.

Phineas
K0KMA

To those who say 'too little, too late' and those who think it is a useless endevaour.. well, that's what you think and you're welcome to it.

But.. for me..

To give up is to admit defeat and let the bastards run free and unfettered in OUR house.

To state the phrase. 'Tis better to light just one little candle than to stumble in the dark!'

or 'better to light a candle than curse the darkness'

Which means.. better to have SOMETHING done and be active than to just sit back and curse the onrushing unchecked flood.

A cite and a fine fired once in a while does a lot better job at detaining/delaying/hindering the bad guy than all the complaining ever did

73

Chuck K3FT

[K0RGR]

I think we all need to applaud this effort, even if it is just a symbolic effort. Look at how much effect the recording industry has generated by threatening to sue the parents of all those kids downloading music from the Internet. A few thousand people will be subpoened, but many millions have put a stop to their kids using the family computer for dowloading music.

Maybe a smart ham lawyer can figure an angle to sue the sellers/manufacturers of this junk? That might supplement FCC's efforts nicely.

Of course, if BPL happens, these people will all be killed off, anyway, no matter how many amplifiers they have.

[ke4zhn]

The real sad part of this is, when a legally licensed ham goes to buy an amplifier, why should anyone who is a legal ham, have to open up a brand new amp and clip wires or solder crap into it to make it work on the 10/12 mtr. band just because some jackass cb`ers caused the FCC to resort to this knee jerk reaction? Those who say who cares what hapens on cb forget one thing. When those morons invade 10/12 mtrs. with echo mikes roger beeps noise toys and the f word every 5 seconds it IS our problem! Why does the FCC penalize the amateur community for the actions of cb`ers? Not that I think clipping a wire or soldering in a jumper is really a big deal, but we are talking a brand new amp sold to a licensed amateur here!!!! If the buyer has no license, dont sell him the amp! (of course the lawyers feed on this, its discrimination http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif #) Also, this is really a lame way to supposedly keep illegal use of amps down anyway because most cb`ers arent that stupid that they cant also clip a wire or solder in a jumper! AES and HRO and all the big equipment sellers will sell to anyone with bucks so this is what happens. As long as these places sell gear to anyone who isnt licensed, the door is wide open for illegal use. Why are places like Copper still in buisness after all the years of selling illegal gear? Who are they paying off? (isnt it obvious that a so called 10 mtr. rig with a built in echo is NOT marketed towards amateurs?) On the other side of the coin, if you refuse to sell gear to unlicensed people, then some jerk sues them and runs them out of buisness! The price we all pay for this politically correct bull$**t society we are presently living in!! Bring back the days when to buy ANY transmitting device capable of operation on the amateur bands you MUST show a valid ticket! In Chicago, there used to be a store that sold amateur gear called Spectronics. You could buy anything you wanted there, so long as you showed a ticket if it was an amp or tranceiver. In the showcase of the store they had a crystal to put an FT 101 on 11 mtrs. crushed with a pair of pliers taped to the glass from underneath! They actually made it a quest to discourage cb`ers from coming into the store for bootleg gear. Nowadays, the retailers are fueled by greed and the politically correct yuppies who feel that we ALL should not discriminate and welcome everyone and anyone to the hobby. While I can agree to a point, I dont feel that welcoming bootleggers into amateur radio stores to buy gear to be used to splatter all over hells half acre is really in the hobbys best interest. (sure in their wallets best interest though!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif One thing was for sure, Spectronics did NOT knowingly help fuel the cb crowd with bootleg gear or amps. In fact, I personally saw them ask people to leave the store if they asked questions about illegal cb gear or mods or using an amp on cb at all. ( The FCC was known to send people into stores like this and try to catch them selling to cb`ers at one time) This was in the days before greedy lawyers cashed in on every opportunity to sue anyone for any reason. Of course, you always have the hams that would buy the stuff and sell it to them anyway in the interest of cash, but this happens regardless. Only way to stop this cb nonsense from invading the ham bands is to bust them in droves, which unfortunatly the FCC wont do because theres not enough money in it for them. The FCC could close about 85% or more of the nations truck stops for selling illegal nontype accepted so called export only junk if it really had any teeth. And as for selling legal gear, such as legit 10 mtr. rigs, then why not make it LAW to have the manufactures like Ranger build totally nonmodifiable rigs or they get shut down and fined to death? Theres plenty of ways the FCC could stop the explosion of bootleggers from invading the amateur bands...if they really cared. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[k7kwh]

As a trucker AND a licensed ham, I've seen, and have wasted lots of breath trying to educate truck stop managers about what these Galaxy/Ranger/Conex/Delta Force radios are REALLY....and that they (Pilot/TravelCenters of America/Petro/et.al) really should reconsider their decisions about selling these radios....and I think it has MOSTLY fallen on deaf ears.

Also....remember that the FCC delegated Class D (chicken band) enforcement to the local/county/state law enforcement agencies...but VERY few officers know about what to look for as far as possible illicit radios. I have talked to several state troopers about this, and some have actually been receptive to learning about what could be a potential illicit radio. (most all do know what a linear amp looks like, however). Maybe having a ham in a weigh station helping the state troopers identify possible illegal radios will help.

Unfortunatly, the FCC does NOT have the manpower or budget to sit at truck stops and monitor, not to mention the probability of the truck stop management ejecting the FCC agents from the truck stop (they do it to a lot of police officers already!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif The truck scale enforcement and/or mobile enforcement option looks best so far...
AND I would LOVE to see the equipment vendors not only require one to show a ham license, BUT also VERIFY its validity.
Oh well...enough ranting for now.

73 de K7KWH

[kb9sne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n8zux @ Sep. 06 2003,16:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I even once purchased a 2M. rig at one place for $15.00 just to insure that someone unlicesened did not buy it, & I used it until it quit working.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I did the same thing at a second hand electronics shop who had a 2 meter rig labeled as a scanner. the gentleman actually told me that a lady bought it and brought it back because she couldnt program it up for police. i laughed and explained to the gentleman what he had there. and i figured what the heck i purchased it for my use. it only lasted for a few weeks but it isnt in the hand of a illegal operator.

[W9WHE]

Has anyone forwarded a copy of that letter to Copper Electronics and other "suppliers"?

[W9WHE]

K7KWH writes:

"Maybe having a ham in a weigh station helping the state troopers identify possible illegal radios will help".

If every ham donated just 3 hours to such an effort, just imagine how many illegal radios would be off the air!

[AB8KS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Sep. 09 2003,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K7KWH writes:

"Maybe having a ham in a weigh station helping the state troopers identify possible illegal radios will help". #

If every ham donated just 3 hours to such an effort, just imagine how many illegal radios would be off the air![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
To get a rig the op should have to pass a 5 wpm code test given at store and that will fix the problem.

[n7uqa]

Maybe we should encourage BPL to only be used in the 25.9-27.9 MHz band....

The only way to defeat this is for the FCC to quit type accepting 11 meter CBs in the first place. Now that FRS/GMRS have gotten a foothold over the past few years, this service should provide a better communications medium for unlicenced users.

But I would agree, Copper selling export CBs and Ham gear to every Tom, Dick and Harry is NOT helping the problem. I even see Copper is selling CB antennas that are rated at 15Kw! Talk about overkill.

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n7uqa @ Sep. 09 2003,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe we should encourage BPL to only be used in the 25.9-27.9 MHz band....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
NO! not between 26.3 and 26.8!

There USED to be a STL on 26.xxx MHz (I do not want to say where for obvious reasons)... I used to listen to the STL instead of the actual broadcast.

The station engineer tells me that "cb'ers really cause problems when the band is open".

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k7kwh @ Sep. 09 2003,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As a trucker AND a licensed ham, I've seen, and have wasted lots of breath trying to educate truck stop managers about what these Galaxy/Ranger/Conex/Delta Force radios are REALLY....and that they (Pilot/TravelCenters of America/Petro/et.al) really should reconsider their decisions about selling these radios....and I think it has MOSTLY fallen on deaf ears. #

Also....remember that the FCC delegated Class D (chicken band) enforcement to the local/county/state law enforcement agencies...but VERY few officers know about what to look for as far as possible illicit radios. #I have talked to several state troopers about this, and some have actually been receptive to learning about what could be a potential illicit radio. (most all do know what a linear amp looks like, however). #Maybe having a ham in a weigh station helping the state troopers identify possible illegal radios will help. #

Unfortunatly, the FCC does NOT have the manpower or budget to sit at truck stops and monitor, not to mention the probability of the truck stop management ejecting the FCC agents from the truck stop (they do it to a lot of police officers already!) The truck scale enforcement and/or mobile enforcement option looks best so far...
AND I would LOVE to see the equipment vendors not only require one to show a ham license, BUT also VERIFY its validity.
Oh well...enough ranting for now.

73 de K7KWH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
K7KWH:

Unfortunately, I think the FCC has given local authorities VERY NARROW authority in this regard. They can step in when interference occurs due to ILLEGAL operation (such as power above the legal limit) but I do not think the law provides for confiscation of equipment; just allowing the local authorities to tell an illegal operator to stop. And that does NOT stop the FCC from enforcement action against grevious offenders. (The FCC just didn't want to be bothered with the everyday "he's interfering with my stereo" type complaint.

And the problem there is that the FCC gave local authorities jurisdiction ONLY against complaints resulting from ILLEGAL operations on the CB band, such as use of an illegal amplifier. It does NOT allow local authorities to take action against any LEGALLY operated CB station, or any other Radio Service. The biggest problem is that HOW does the local constabulary know the difference between an Amateur Radio Operator, a Legal limit CB operator and someone operating on the CB Bands with illegal equipment/power? It's probably all the same to many (or most) law enforcement officers.

[N8HE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9WHE @ Sep. 10 2003,16:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">K7KWH writes:

"Maybe having a ham in a weigh station helping the state troopers identify possible illegal radios will help". #

If every ham donated just 3 hours to such an effort, just imagine how many illegal radios would be off the air![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Owning the rig is not illegal, its the operation of it that is. Thus one has to show proof it was being transmitted on, I don't think a ham or a cop would have an oppertunity to get a recording, plus a vidieo in a weigh station to prove this. Please excuse my spelling, I never claimed to smart.

[n9par]

Hello Everyone!
It's about time they start cracking down on that stuff!Next stop should be Mike's Cb shop in Green Bay,Wisconsin.Where you can get your cb tuned up and mods done for only a few bucks.I even went in there once and he was selling stolen 2 meters radio.Seems like the cb always carry's trouble with it.

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9par @ Sep. 12 2003,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello Everyone!
#It's about time they start cracking down on that stuff!Next stop should be Mike's Cb shop in Green Bay,Wisconsin.Where you can get your cb tuned up and mods done for only a few bucks.I even went in there once and he was selling stolen 2 meters radio.Seems like the cb always carry's trouble with it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, if you can prove he's selling stolen radios, the authorities should be glad to step in. But the key word here is "proof." If you can't prove it's stolen with an engraved call, Driver's license number, or a serial number on a theft report, the authorities have little recourse; there's NO proof it's stolen merchandise.
THUS, always record serial numbers, and/or engrave a call sign on your equipment. (Been there, shoulda done that.)

[w7psk]

Unfortunately the original topic of this discussion is still doing business

http://www.tomah.com/n9uom/cbshop.htm (http://www.tomah.com/n9uom/midland.html)

He's still in biz.. but if you note.. you don't see anything about 'EXPORT RADIOS' mentioned at all.

Amazing! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Of course. the fact that the rigs still have ROGER BEEP, ECHO BEEP, etc..etc..etc..


Gee.. wonder how hard it is to 'click, snap, clip, snip' and make it go 'where no radio should boldy go' http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

at least he's toned it down... HI

Thanksful for SMALL blessings as well as large! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KD5LKY]

Here is some food for thought.
The government collects hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in taxes from the sales of the illegal radios.
The government is not going to stop a tax profit like that.
They see it as waste of money they are not willing to ticketing and take court cases that will harm the economy.
There’s to much money involved in this to get hope’s up
I see it that there is on hope of stopping it.
73’s
:)

[kd5ueo]

hi, been reading all the entries on this subject, and, yall are all right #in some respects, but look at the profit side of it, if the gooberment would not be makeing money on it, it wouldn`t be happening, look at the war on drugs, big laugh, only people that can stop drugs is ourselves, it would be for our children, not for money. same way with all this illeagal operation, but i guess some would say we would be takin the law into our own hands, well, what-ever, it needs to be stopped, fcc or no fcc. no use complaining, no one cares that could do sumpin bout it.........rick........KD5UEO #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[n8ary]

Well, It looks like everyone is in an UPROAR over this whole thing. #

Here's an interesting question:

What about the fact you can modify your 706 or FT100 to be used on the 11 meter band? #What about your VX-5 or VX-1 on FRS and GMRS frequencies? #Have any licensed Hams done that? #Breaking the law is breaking the law, even if you are only using 2 watts to transmit your non-type-accepted radio on the Citizen's Band frequencies. #The fact is, an FT100, IC706, or even an FT817 is no different from a legal standpoint than a 10 meter rig with a jumper to clip. #You can even channelize them like a CB.

Be careful what you wish for or the big manufacturers may be forced to make all radios non MARS-CAP Capable like Radio Shack did before we quit buying their radios for that very reason. #I like to be able to monitor CB frequencies when necessary without having to install extra radios and antennas in the car. #If this issue is taken to extreme, we will even lose that privilege.

And yes, we are all all authorized CB'ers, so it is one of the bands we can use if we have type-accepted equipment. #I would think as CITIZENS, we would be interested in helping to clean up the band, at least go after the ones using 13,000 watt mobile amps. #CB reflects badly on all radio operators when it's so easy to see that garbage and hear it on your TV, stereo, and it sets off your alarm system. #Acting Holier-Than-Thou doesn't do us much justice, either.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is the problem that he was just selling the radios themseves or that he was selling them to unlicenced people? #Heck AES and HRO sell Ranger 2950's and 70's. #You don't see any one go after them. #They do ask for your call however.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think he was assisting people in modifying them and basically encouraging the use of the equipment in the wrong way. #He can't actually legally discriminate his sales to Hams only.

I think maybe this equipment should be a little like buying a gun from a dealer- make people register when they buy it. #Not necessarily with a call sign, but just to be entered into a database so there is evidence if a problem arises.

It's also not illegal to sell junk, apparently.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did you know that ""...no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease)" also means that if you have one of the retroactively classified 10m rigs (e.g.; Uniden HR-2600 et. al.) you cannot sell it to anyone? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

The radios are sold as Amateur Radios. #The sellers are not allowed to discriminate who they sell them to, so anyone can buy one. #Like I said before, they are no different from an IC706 or FT100 from a technical standpoint. #I think if a radio can transmit on the amateur bands, it can be used by an Amateur on the Amateur Frequencies.

This is getting into an area in which I am not knowledgable, so I will hang it up now.

[hemingray]

Did you know that ""...no person shall sell or lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease)" also means that if you have one of the retroactively classified 10m rigs (e.g.; Uniden HR-2600 et. al.) you cannot sell it to anyone? Doesn't matter that it was legally imported and sold, you can use it (in 10m, licensed for 10m) but not sell it.

Sometimes those of use who are legal get caught up in things too. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Dave

[n7eo]

Concerning the original thread of illegal equipment, search ebay for "linear amplifier" and note that most all the hits will be 10 meter amplifiers of dubious lineage. #

At sometime in the past ebay killed a few of the obvious illegal equipment offerings, but it appears there is no enforcement at present.

However, try to sell software that you purchased with a computer (hint - sounds like MicroSloth) and see how fast ebay will kill your listing. #MS police scour the listings and complain. #MS lawyers have clout.

The small voice of a single amateur will most likely not get through to ebay or the other purveyors of trash equipment. #Mr. Hollingsworth may be able to get their attention. #But, as prevously noted he is busy and appears to respond to the easy targets. #Perhaps a letter to Mr. Powell or correspondance to your congress person asking for Mr. Powell's attention to this proliferation of trash equipment and polution of the bands would be advised. #

N7EO

[KF3EG]

Its all gone to crap!

# NO Radio manufacturer should produce a radio that can be modified, If you need a Mars/cap radio one should have to present their license to buy it. #(pissed off yet?)

# CW should be required for all class license, No code license forms 2, 4 letter words # WORK & LAZY (getting there?)

# #Anyone operates out of their license, fine them and take the equipment and license forever. (they knew what they were doing)

# #Use the bands: use = no loss

# #Easy to blame the FCC, and you would raise hell if license fees came back, used to fund legal action and field work to catch violators.
# # How about the guy who modified the radio or the guy who sold it to a CB'er.?
# # Money,Money Money, if there was not a profit to be made they would not do it, MAKE RADIOS THAT CAN'T BE MODIFIED !

# # Police the Ham bands, its starting to sound like 11 meter. CW was the begining, cry babies will make it the end. So fire up your computer and pound the keys and forget radio because this is the begining of the end.
# #We have fought wars, freed countries, feed the world,
YET two hams in the same room can't get along, childish isn't it?

# #When all else fails, fire the big gun.

KF3EG

[WA9SVD]

Hemingray:

It's not quite as bad as you think. "Grandfathered" equipment that would not be legal as NEW, can be sold, exchanged, whatever from one licensed Amateur Operator to Another Licensed Operator, or a Amateur Radio dealer, provided it was built or purchased prior to 28 April 1978. That's in §97.315 and §97.317. (There are certain restrictions, however, and you may be able to sell only one such amplifier in any calendar year.)

Title 74 CFR §2.815(d), (e) also allows for that exception, provided it's for that Amateur's personal use.

And KD5LKY:

I doubt the government collects "hundreds of thousands" of dollars in taxes on the sale of illegal (or at least illegally used) radios, provided tax is paid at all. (And those taxes would remain in the individual state, not with the Federal government.)

But at 8.25% tax, that's $0.12 cents per dollar; so if a radio costs say $100, that's $12.00 per radio. To raise "hundreds of thousands" of dollars in taxes, the number of radios would be in the millions, and I doubt that many radios are sold on a yearly basis. Spread out over 50 states, (granted, some states don't have sales tax) that's only a few thousand dollars per state. In state budgets measured in billions of dollars, a few thousand is hardly a significant factor.

[WA6SicK]

The FCC should leave them alone .... I mean hear in California if your illegal .... well they will just have to reward you! Give you a driver's license and the right to vote ... buy guns .... why ....even let you mooch of the welfare system. Why should they single out these guys when the rest of the government encourges illegal activey in nearly all aspects of society. Why should they enforce against these people ? The FCC does't enforce anything else. The FCC is like a limp dick ... a wanna be cop without a clue .... except even viagra wouldn't help them !
TOM

[WA6SicK]

The FCC should leave them alone .... I mean hear in California if your illegal .... well they will just have to reward you! Give you a driver's license and the right to vote ... buy guns .... why ....even let you mooch of the welfare system. Why should they single out these guys when the rest of the government encourges illegal activey in nearly all aspects of society. Why should they enforce against these people ? The FCC does't enforce anything else. The FCC is like a limp dick ... a wanna be cop without a clue .... except even viagra wouldn't help them !
TOM

[KB2SEO]

This guy is small potatos! You should see Copper Electronics at www.copper.com These guys are advertising JUNK and calling it 10 meter rigs. NOT Ham Radios or even referring to our Hobby in the Ads. Then, to be even more sickening, they are putting in a Option for the order to Modity for 11 meters...GEE, What ARE WE UP TO?

Gotta shut these operations down once and for all, and make them FELONS for the use,sale or operation out of the band designed or licensed for it.

No more Mr. Nice Guy.

[KB2SEO]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA7KKP @ Sep. 06 2003,10:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there a .pdf or other file of this letter online?

I'd like to print up some copies to give to the proprietors of truck stops, and other vendors of these so-called 'ham transceivers', just to let them know that they are playing with a loaded gun.

Gary Hildebrand WA7KKP[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You start sending that out, you may face a loaded gun.
Those Truckers are real nasty when you tell them they are breaking the law. Let the FCC or the Cops handle that. Get your local police involved. remember folks, If you have a problem with CB'rs-The FCC had empowered the Law enforcement community to help out.

[kb9sne]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n9par @ Sep. 12 2003,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hello Everyone!
It's about time they start cracking down on that stuff!Next stop should be Mike's Cb shop in Green Bay,Wisconsin.Where you can get your cb tuned up and mods done for only a few bucks.I even went in there once and he was selling stolen 2 meters radio.Seems like the cb always carry's trouble with it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
yea i bet you supplied him with quite a bit of stolen ham a cb gear. boy that is the pot calling the kettle black.

[WA9SVD]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB2SEO @ Sep. 14 2003,18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This guy is small potatos! You should see Copper Electronics at www.copper.com These guys are advertising JUNK and calling it 10 meter rigs. NOT Ham Radios or even referring to our Hobby in the Ads. Then, to be even more sickening, they are putting in a Option for the order to Modity for 11 meters...GEE, What ARE WE UP TO?

Gotta shut these operations down once and for all, and make them FELONS for the use,sale or operation out of the band designed or licensed for it.

No more Mr. Nice Guy.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree, the FCC has been too lenient in their enforcement (or lack thereof,) but I'd suggest a warning to users of illegal equipment (some may not be aware of a violation,) and a fine for sellers if they are found to be in violation, NOT just a warning letter. A repeat violation for illegal operation should then get a stiff fine, and a repeat violation for a seller should get the maximum punishment.
I don't agree with the "notice of violation" and a follow-up six months later again saying "PLEASE stop selling illegal equipment/operating illegally or out of band." If the violation is still occuring, they had been warned, and prosecute them. NO MORE Mr. NICE GUY. If someone robs a bank, the police don't just send him a letter saying "don't do that again."

[k3qn]

There is a simple solution to stopping the illegal truckers operating on ten meters. Empower the DOT to check for illegal radios aboard trucks at the weigh scales. Only cost would be to train the DOT to know what to look for. maybe a few $10,000 dollar fines issued , the word would spread like a wild fire. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Another problem I hear on the Gulf coast is Shrimp boats as well as commercial fishermen. Hear them all the time on 40m / 80m as well as 160m . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K2PG]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n8zux @ Sep. 05 2003,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Part 97 says that a ham operator can use a modified CB on 10 M. Or even a modified commercial radio on 2M or 440, but never a modified ham tranceiver for use on a band for which its not type accepted.

Mind if I ask where in Part 97 says that ? I have a July 2003 copy and do not see where its stated as such could you give me sub parts to this ? #just wondering ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You won't find that in Part 97. All of the regulations pertaining to type acceptance of radio equipment are in Part 2 of the FCC Rules.

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2PG @ Sep. 19 2003,06:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (n8zux @ Sep. 05 2003,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Part 97 says that a ham operator can use a modified CB on 10 M. Or even a modified commercial radio on 2M or 440, but never a modified ham tranceiver for use on a band for which its not type accepted.

Mind if I ask where in Part 97 says that ? I have a July 2003 copy and do not see where its stated as such could you give me sub parts to this ? #just wondering ?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You won't find that in Part 97. All of the regulations pertaining to type acceptance of radio equipment are in Part 2 of the FCC Rules.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The last time I looked, the rules were basically Thou Shalt Not's and Thou Shall, so there need not be a rule that says that you can or may use a modified radio, since it is not otherwise prohibited, it is assumed permited.

[kb9sne]

I attended a recent hamfest and i was suprised at the number of ham radios converted to cb that were sitting on tables. and on cb freqs too. i even saw a few 11 meter amps also.. kinda a shame to see that, but i guess that is what brings in the money.

[kg6qkj]

The FCC can easily take records from the Department of Transportation and mail out a form letter to every trucking company in the US. #They just have to explain the fines and punishment that they can receive if they allow unauthorized transmissions. #Most companies do not want hassles from any Federal Agency. #The problem is with the owner operators. #They would look at the letter and laugh. #Another easy thing for the FCC to do is park at a truck stop and just listen for themselves. #That would be a good start! #But I agree that this is too little too late.

The link to the Enforcement logs is at: #http://www2.arrl.org/news/enforcement_logs/

[m3gaf]

hi tell me why lincon radios are sold as ameter radios
that is presdent linclon http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[kk4ken]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3qn @ Sep. 19 2003,07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is a simple solution to stopping the illegal truckers operating on ten meters. Empower the DOT to check for illegal radios aboard trucks at the weigh scales. Only cost would be to train the DOT to know what to look for. maybe a few $10,000 dollar fines issued , the word would spread like a wild fire. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Another problem I hear on the Gulf coast is Shrimp boats as well as commercial fishermen. Hear them all the time on 40m / 80m as well as 160m . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The problem with empowering the DOT to check for trucks with illegal equipment isn't that then the DOT has to be trained, it's that there is no check in place for it. #In other words, if a trucker came through with an illegal radio, he could slip a fiver and no one knows the difference. #Of course, I've never been at a truck weigh station, so if there is already monitoring and stuff in place to prevent this, then just disregard that statement. #Thank you. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

On the other hand, if a trucker came through with legal ham gear, the DOT would have to know what to ask for as proof that the trucker is a licensed ham. #I mean, look at all the trouble some hams have with local law enforcement where scanners are illegal in cars. #You get pulled over for a busted tail light and get your ham gear confiscated even though you have a ham license. #(NOTE: this might be an exaggeration, but I've seen similar posts here on QRZ and in USENET forums.)

Ken
KK4KEN