UNIV OF CENTRAL FLORIDA EVICTS AMATEUR RADIO CLUB! [Archive]

ka5s

09-02-2003, 12:59 PM

How badly do you want to win? # How many enemies are you prepared to make? How much are you prepared to spend winning? Have you prepared to defend yourselves?

It seems to me that there are several avenues by which you might win -- not counting the University's evidently non-existent generosity. But in doing so, you might have to damage the reputation of the University or some of its staff, and harm its financial and political support. #This seems to me akin to sinking the ship one is on because the promenade deck has been put off limits. #However...

Your case might be convincingly tied to other student groups who have been slapped down by the administration; it is possible you were evicted not for the stated reasons, but because you are an organized group the administration does not trust, and can't control. If so, others are probably in the same situation. Some of these may have federal government assistance. They may help you.

The reasons for which the club was evicted must be shown unfounded in fact. The REAL reason could be as simple as the administration's desire to provide some faculty member with a better office. #You might show the incompetence or dishonesty of those making the assertions that got the club evicted. #It is possible you'll be sued for committing libel or slander if you do this, though.

There may be supportive staff members who have axes of their own to grind -- there are always are faculty dissidents -- and they will welcome the ammunition you can provide. Some may resent another's getting a better office! It helps if they're tenured.

Legislators who have in the past been lukewarm in support of University funding might be provided with #evidence that their sentiments were justified. Even those who support the University might be persuaded to temper their support in the future. And to say so in legislative session - which will certainly strike at University funding and credibility for years to come.

Alumni whose endowments support the University could be contacted to help restore the club to its former position or an equivalent -- merely doing so will insure funding is is no longer as unstinting as it had been. # Scholarships tied to Amateur Radio -- such as the ARRL's -- might be deferred until the University relents.

And there is of course the undesirable media attention. But I can't say who ishurt more by that; you or the administration.

Cortland

AB9HR

09-02-2003, 01:00 PM

This also might be because of budget cuts or maybe the faculty wanted the room. Who knows. The fact of the matter is that universities around the country are cutting programs left and right. It's sad to see such a good program go.

kc4nus

09-02-2003, 01:11 PM

From what I have seen so far, letters to UCF have not made a difference so far. However, I would not let this stop you from writing. You may be able to say something new or different which the administration will listen to. The main thing we need not written to them is any form of flame. When administrators have mentioned the emails they have gotten, they have tended to focus on the couple rambling flames instead of the messages with facts and meaning.

So far the only media which has taken an interest in the eviction has been one of the school newspapers. The paper [The Independent Journal], however, was more interested in bashing the UCF president than telling the story of what is happening and why it is not a good thing for UCF or the surrounding community.

If you have read the eviction notes and timeline, you have seen Senator Graham and Senator Nelson were contacted and took an interest in the situation, but I don't suspect it has a high priority with them. The state senators and representatives who's districts cover the East Orange County area were contacted, but only one of them, Rep Adams, responded. I suspect I didn't hear from the others because they do not respond to non-constiuents.

Debra Austin, Chancellor, Division of Colleges and Universities, responded on behave of the governor, but she was under the impression our eviction had to do with budget contraints. I have not heard anything back since responding to her misconseption.

If you are going to contact UCF, the key places the mail or email needs to go is the UCF President's Office [Dr. Hitt], the Dean of College of Arts and Sciences [Dr. Seidel], and the assistant director of Student Activities [Joshua Katz]. Their current contact information can be found using the search function of http://www.ucf.edu.

If you live in the area around UCF, I would also recommend contacting your state legislators and explaining to them why UCF's action is bad for the community. If you have access to someone or a group with clout in the central Florida community, let them know about UCF's action and as necessary explain why it compromises the safety of the community.

N0MLR

09-02-2003, 01:46 PM

Once again the alegedly highly educated show their ignorance. That in itself is not suprising. I have known many of the type.

The club has a bonified reason for its existance. It has its authority from the Federal Government and the Emergency Management Agency of the county has endorsed it. Senators and Politicians both State and Federal have came out in support of the club. Yet there has been no sign from the college administration of backing down.

I think it would be a prudent task for the ARRL to ask a Judge for an order or stay of the eviction on the grounds of Public Good and the need for the Club facilities in the event of an emergency. Pending the relocation to sutiable facilities upon their becoming available. # [B]

Further I suggest that the Department of Homeland Security bring before congress a law that would forbid this type action to any Licensed Radio Installation used for Homeland Defense.

Now we as licensed operators must do our part also. We must get involved in disaster drills and make our presance known in time of emergency. We must use press coverage to our benifit when ever possible. Use it as educational hand outs at events like group functions, Schools, and any other place we can. In short we must become involved and be in an educational mode when ever we come into a group or a occasional person asking about our equipment. How about that neighbor or all your neighbors or the CC&R meetings? Educate Educate Educate is the answer. in addition to some help in the federal law arena.

Thanks for reading my post!

Greg Dunn / N0MLR

ko1m

09-02-2003, 03:45 PM

This is incredible. What a shame. I am ashamed to call UCF my alma mater. (1981/1983). Good Luck and I agree that you will need to document everything.

kc4nus

09-02-2003, 04:08 PM

BTW. #For any alumni members of UCFARC who find their way here...

I am attempting to detail out the history of UCFARC. #My involvement with the club didn't start until 1989. #So any activities of the club I don't have listed on the history page which you know about, I would be interested in for adding. #Also, if in your archives you have any pictures and can attribute it to a specific event or time period, please scan them (max 100dpi and no large than 640x480) and email it to me with details about them.

If the mass media does pickup on the story, I love to have 31 years of history to have them reference.

K8MP

09-02-2003, 04:45 PM

You guys just need to recruit a homo or two.
After that, the faculty won't have the guts to mess with you. # # Good luck.....

aa1mn

09-02-2003, 05:15 PM

The organization that is being asked to leave has been and is on campus only at the gratitude of the school officials.

Don't believe me? ... Read the link and it clearly states that the university officials can ask them to leave at any time which they are now doing.

I would think that the members of the amateur club in question, while feeling a disappointment at being asked to vacate -- a sympathy which I share with them -- should be grateful for having been allowed to have their base of operations there for the time that they did.

Rather than crying on the world's shoulder about this a better apporach would be searching for a new location -- perhaps a good place to start would be seeking a fellow ham on campus who would be able to lend his or her parent's home QTH as a place to reorganize should the parents be likewise sympathetic to the existing plight.

Here's wishes that this works out for the best.

Chuck, AA1MN

ka5s

09-02-2003, 05:20 PM

What else is going on? BPL?

You may want to see if there is a relationship between Dr. Hitt or other staff, and Florida Power and Light. The reason I suggest this is that Florida Power and Light is one of the parties who wish to deploy Broadband over Power Line (BPL) systems over the objections of Amateur Radio operators. Could it be that Florida Power and Light wishes to provide free BPL on campus -- and know it would be shut down if an Amateur Radio station were located there?

Florida Power and Light in that case might have used its influence to have the Amateur Radio station removed so as to make interference complaints less likely. #Given a President who doesn’t like antennas anyway, a donation from Florida Power and Light conditioned on the removal of Amateur antennas could do the trick. #

If there has been collusion between members of the University’s administration and Florida Power and Light, a Freedom of Information Act request for copies of memoranda and e-mails may reveal its details.

Such a relationship, should one be found, might well be seen as improper, and perhaps even unlawful. #It would appear especially unwise when hurricanes are roaming the Atlantic.

Cortland

ke4zhn

09-02-2003, 05:46 PM

This is pathetic! I live no more then 2 miles from UCF and have enjoyed using their repeater on many occasions. Heres a fine example of a university president who is a short sighted moron. For this man to simply toss out the amateur club after 30 years shows that hes obviously misinformed and not very technically inclined. He probably lucked into his big money job by kissing plenty of arse`s along the way. There are literally thousands of students that attend this university, its a fine school, and many of them are very nice hams and very enjoyable to talk to on the air. Its a sorry shame that they will now be forced to limit their on air activities to off campus due to the ignorance of a short sighted blithering idiot of a university president who probably cant even program his own vcr! To simply hold the amateur club responsible with no concrete evidence just proves the man is pathetically inept when it comes to technical matters. Why didnt he bother to investigate the real reason the computers got hit? This is the lightning capitol of the world and its bound to happen sooner or later. It stands to reason that if the radio gear was not damaged by the strike, perhaps it got in a different way? I wish all the amateurs the best of luck in restoring their club, and hopefully they will make their short sighted president look like the total jackass he is in court. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

k4jpf

09-02-2003, 06:45 PM

Folks, IF, you really want to lend a hand to the UCF club get on it and e-mail, write or phone the UCF president. #UCF, as do all institutions of its ilk, MUST have community support!!!..A little heat from local officials and the communty at large will get results...Talkin' to ourselves is "preachin' to the choir". #I contacted Hitt's office..how about you?

Pat4350@aol.com...K4JPF...UCF'73

kg6amw

09-02-2003, 07:43 PM

Your screwed and your dealing with stupid and dishonest people. When the dust settles, the club with have no equipment, no home and will cease to exist. Time to hit the corbomite button. Pick out official go after them with a vengeance.

KG6AMW

N0MLR

09-02-2003, 07:58 PM

Here is a copy of the letter I sent to the College President. Please write him and let him know how you feel. A link to the president can be found at the link in the opening paragraph of the original post of this thread.

"Dear President Hitt
I feel I must write. Regarding the events leading up to the eviction notice you have served on the Ham Radio Club.
I feel your staff and others involved have misjudged the dedication and professionalism of the Members of the Club. These Mambers are an asset to your school. They are Federaly Licensed Radio Operators. They have earned their License by hard Study and Profesionalism. Both of which I would think are encouraged at your school. They passed and took a Federal Test to become a Ham Radio Operator. The sole purpose of which is to train people of all walks of Life to provide Emergency Communications in the event they are needed. Hams have been envolved during every major disaster since the turn of the last century. Ham radio is there during all huricanes. Ham Radio is there during Floods and Tornados. They work with all major law enforcement agencies in the country. They have been recognized by such Federal Programs as the Department of Homeland Security. In short they are needed now more than ever.
The antennas seam to an outsider as an eye sore. To a Ham Operator they are a Tool. One that is just as precisly constructed as the Physicians Scalpel. They both have the ability to save Lives.
I respectfully ask that you reconsider your position and give your permission for the Club to return to service.

Thank You

Greg Dunn / N0MLR"

W5ZC

09-02-2003, 09:45 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (wa4ptz @ Sep. 02 2003,02:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like another "Witch Hunt" to me. Only PROOF
presented by engineers can hope to change the outcome.
It could also be that someone is just looking for an
excuse to desolve this club. #Time to get some alumni
involved, folks. Especially the "Engineering" alumni.
Outsiders will only hasten your demise.
73 and good luck or should I say good hunting.
Tim[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, welcome to the real world, club members. I agree with "Tim's" post. Why not get with those well-heeled alumni and set up an endowment for purchase and maintenance of an old house near the campus for relocation of your club... you could have your own W1AW! This would be a lasting gift to future UCF hams...
73, Dave

kg4kkn

09-02-2003, 09:50 PM

So, you win and the club gets to stay. Just how many of you are suddenly going to find "missing" grades or strange issues that pop up when it's time to graduate? Obviously grades must mean something if the club press couldn't skip class.

If the faculty believes (rightly or wrongly) that the club's antennas are to blame for the damage without actually investigating, then they aren't going to investigate: they already have their scapegoat and aren't bright enough to accept the facts to the contrary even if you presented them on a gold platter. Facts are useless when you are dealing with people who cannot comprehend facts.

IMO, your best move is to pack up, move out, find a new shack QTH, and get graduated from that place ASAP.

KA3RFE

09-02-2003, 10:55 PM

If anyone writes a letter to the school in support of the club's continued residence at the school, PLEASE use a spell checker and grammar checker! The last thing we need is for someone to write a letter that sounds like it was written by a fourth-grade student.

Don't make insulting comments, question the school's faculty's intelligence, make wild assertions of ham radio's importance, or otherwise write something that's going to make the administration angry.

Think carefully and insure your letter reflects favorably on amateur radio.

I have problems spelling at times and don't always proofread as well as I should, and I do use a word processing program with a spelling check and grammar check. It's much easier. I wish I could find a way to use it when posting in an internet forum such as this one, but it doesn't seem possilble.

73, Pete KA3RFE

KG4JYD

09-02-2003, 11:06 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kg4kkn @ Sep. 02 2003,14:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, you win and the club gets to stay. Just how many of you are suddenly going to find "missing" grades or strange issues that pop up when it's time to graduate? #Obviously grades must mean something if the club press couldn't skip class. #

If the faculty believes (rightly or wrongly) that the club's antennas are to blame for the damage without actually investigating, then they aren't going to investigate: they already have their scapegoat and aren't bright enough to accept the facts to the contrary even if you presented them on a gold platter. #Facts are useless when you are dealing with people who cannot comprehend facts.

IMO, your best move is to pack up, move out, find a new shack QTH, and get graduated from that place ASAP.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I dont think there is a vengance for the club itself, however as stated there might be alterior motives than just "safety concerns". Of course these motives could be anything from ugly antennae on the roof top to a tenured faculty member wants to use the shack as an office space.
As of this moment there is a little too much attention on this issue for "missing grades" and such to start occouring without a serious backlash. There are a lot of people involved and I dont think anyone would try anything like that anyway...welll I would hope not. I think this entire issue would die if the ARC simply found another location out of the way on campus.

I think UCF is a fine institution academically as I know many people that have attended and graduated from there.

Moving to another location on campus would be ideal however moving the club to a purchased house off campus like W1AW is not a realistic option. First of all land is exceptionally expensive in Orlando now (especially around UCF), and also one of the major points of having an ARC at the school is close logistical support in times of emergency. Having an off campus HQ would present a myraid of logistical issues.

N2LEE

09-03-2003, 12:38 AM

Isn't it interesting how the "so called" inclusive, open minded and tolerant members of academia show their real colors.

I disagree with moving your station. You have just as much right as any other club to be on campus. If this happen to another club on campus how would you students react ? If they can throw you off who is next ? Get the other clubs involved if possible. This effects them as well.

Stand your ground and fight ! Try to reach a producer at Fox news, they might be more likely to cover this type of injustice. They have a reporter in Florida, Orlando Salinas, you might be able to get him involved.

I am not that familiar with campus politics or judicial procedure but it certainly doesn't seem like you have had your day in court.

Lee

KB9WKR

09-03-2003, 03:15 AM

Alumni of the Florida University should do everything possible to correct this situation.

It has been a few years since I was a student at Indiana University in Bloomington Indiana, but I would help K9IU lobby if a similar problem existed. I was never a member of the K9IU club, but I would defend the continuation of the organization. Sadly, I learned that most staff of the huge Memorial Union Building at Indiana University do not know that K9IU occupies space in the building. Maybe that is a good thing.

AC7RG

09-03-2003, 04:53 AM

That doesn't sound like much of "University" to me. #University, meaning universal, i.e. diversity and tolerance for ALL spectrums of ideology and learning. #

AC7XC

09-03-2003, 07:34 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The top 10 reasons the University of Central Florida banned the
Ham Radio club.

10. They needed to make room for all those computer hard drives to hide & store
copyrighted MP3's on.
9. The fraternity needed a bigger room to store their beer kegs in.
8. The UCF staff wanted a better place to watch porn for law students so they
will recognize it when they see it.
7. The liberal UCF professors confused the Amateur Radio club antennas for a
anti-Castro broadcast station.
6. The cheerleading squad thought the radio waves would make metal wired bras
burn their breasts.
5. The football team required another place to hold their gang bangs at.
4. The President of UCF believes the antennas are really controlled by space
aliens and they are used to send him secret messages.
3. Only nerds carry around a free radio communication systems, cool students
carry around $200 digital phones with $100 monthly service fees.
2. The UCF board thinks that radiate means radiation.
1. The UCF board thought it was a SPAM club and knows that no good comes from
people that eat or send SPAM.

wa4ja

09-03-2003, 08:39 AM

Isn't it too hot to go to school in Orlando? Also was wondering if lightning had ever destroyed anything else on UCF campus. That is the lightning capital of the US so buildings getting hit carries a high probability.

Why don't you guys transfer to U-T Knoxville? They've got the tribander flying high above Neyland Stadium. It gets the football scores out to the world quicker.

It sounds like an adverserial relationship has existed for a long time. Situations like these don't get better. Time to move on, sorry to say.

N8FGV

09-03-2003, 11:24 AM

It only proves what I have said for many years. University politics is much worse than anything that goes on in the corporate business world.

k0xu

09-03-2003, 12:22 PM

After reading the documents that you posted it is obvious that someone on campus with some clout has decided that they want you gone. Until you find out who that is & neutralize them in some way you are going to have trouble.

A few thoughts.
1.Have you talked to the campus ombudman to see if they can help you out in this situation. Often they are limited in areas that they can operate.

2.As a student I found it important to never forget that I was also a taxpayer & voter. If the elected officials do not get involved over the unfair tactics that have been used, approach them with them with the fact that someone in the university system is spending money that is not allocated or budgeted on the project.

3.As a student organization the university knows that the group has no funds to pay for the tower removal. If they contract with someone to do it knowing there is no money in the club's treasury, then they are accepting the liability for the bill. Are they prepared to accept that? As you say in the post, the equipment does technically belong to the university.

4.An attitude that I would never accept from anyone at any institution that wanted me to attend seems to be prevalent here. Somehow you have to remind the administration of the university that without students, they would be out of a job. My alma mater lost that attitude while I was attending and every time I get a fund raising letter from them I remind them of why they will never get any money from me.

5.You will probably have to take the fight off campus to get any pressure that they will notice. They seem to be willing to spend taxpayer dollars to carry out their vendetta against you. If that fact can be brought to light they will have bigger problems than what you can give them internally.

6.Is there any chance that a group of alums could donate some TARGETED funds? A few K$ with strings attached would be hard for them to turn down. And if it is given with the stipulation that it be used for a very specific purpose, then they could not take those funds to use in tearing down your towers.

Good luck & please keep us posted.

Jim k0xu

KG4ZUD

09-03-2003, 12:37 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2LEE @ Sep. 02 2003,17:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I disagree with moving your station. You have just as much right as any other club to be on campus. If this happen to another club on campus how would you students react ? If they can throw you off who is next ? Get the other clubs involved if possible. This effects them as well.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I disagree. This is one of the points -- most other clubs do not have their own office space. The ham club was unique in this regard. I am certain that the club has not been disbanded -- they have just had their space confiscated. I doubt that most other clubs would be too sympathetic for having something taken away that they have never even had.

w8yx

09-03-2003, 01:39 PM

We at the University of Cincinnati know what it is like. While we don't have a nice time line on the site you can see some pictures and an article in the student paper at <www.qsl.net/kc8khl/>. We were able to get a dorm room as a temporary location but still have not been able to make any progress. Our towers are already gone.

N4UM

09-03-2003, 03:33 PM

It's a Florida state "University." Whaddya expect?

KC7ATO

09-03-2003, 07:41 PM

I find it ironic that the current UCF Administration and Faculty Members that are doing the Radio Club in were probably the same students that created havoc on college campuses back in the 1960s. Maybe the Radio Club folks should borrow a few pages from the 60s "playbook" and stir up the campus in order to get some attention to what is going on. Be advised if you do anything "radical" you will probably get busted for it. "If you can't do the time don't do the crime". Good luck.

KAMR

09-03-2003, 08:20 PM

It appears you guys have lost touch with the fact that you operate at the University as a "guest" and you are entitled to nothing, assuming pof course you have no commitment in writeing from them.

You certaintly are not acting like guests. As a owner of numerous repeaters located on grain elevators, a 3 million dollar antenna location,here in Kansas I am thier guest. They are kind enough to pay all of my electric and I am very aware I am their because of their kindness and for that I am very grateful you should be as well.

Most likely the lightning entered through the primary electric service, I am an Journeyman Electrician IBEW Local 271, and you guys need to use some finesse in dealing with the uneducated. The last thing you need to do is start spewing lawyers and such. That will get you tossed out in a heartbeat. Better approach would be to enlist and electrician ham who could shed technical information and a good public relations venue to demonstrate how ham radio serves the community and how it can influence potential students.

Bob KAØMR

w0aew

09-03-2003, 11:45 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2LEE @ Sep. 02 2003,17:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Isn't it interesting how the "so called" inclusive, open minded and tolerant members of academia show their real colors.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah. These guys are behaving like conservatives.

n4ndr

09-04-2003, 12:05 AM

As a native Florida resident and long time supporter of UCF I find this very upsetting. What kind of clubs does UCF want on campus? Is there a legal studies department that you could get the students involved in the legal aspect without cost? I have enjoyed the many tailgates that the UCF ham club sponcers on campus.. Will these now go away and the possibility of hundreds of hams enjoying the campus area be lost? I would hope that the ARRL gets totally involved in this..That is what is expected by many of us FL hams.. Many emails to the top may help, but don't put your faith in a senator who only cares for the presidency. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

KB2KAB

09-04-2003, 12:22 AM

I'm just wondering if the faculty at UFC, would realy like to take a look at all the negative publicity that they have caused in the HAM RADIO WORLD. It would be nice if they could look at all of these posts. And then ask themselfs a big question. Is it realy worth throwing students out, and showing them the door when they are the ones who are supposed to open the doors, so that the students can learn and have a hobby also. Too many kids today are involved in drugs, gangs, and other criminal activities. This is the one that is crime free. You turn on a radio, and talk to others around the world, and you do not get hurt. Amazing that these so called professors teach our children. The faculty at UFC should be a shamed of themselfs for this to happen. With all the violence going around in our schools these days, I never heard of another student at any other school get shot, stabbed or hurt by another student while operating behind the radio. Hope that the manufactures of HAM RADIOS don't start putting guns in the radio as one of the options. # UFC GROW UP! START TEACHING THE RIGHT WAY! NOT BY YOUR REAR END. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

K4PCM

09-04-2003, 02:01 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB2KAB @ Sep. 03 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm just wondering if the faculty at UFC, would realy like to take a look at all the negative publicity that they have caused in the HAM RADIO WORLD. It would be nice if they could look at all of these posts. And then ask themselfs a big question. Is it realy worth throwing students out, and showing them the door when they are the ones who are supposed to open the doors, so that the students can learn and have a hobby also. Too many kids today are involved in drugs, gangs, and other criminal activities. This is the one that is crime free. You turn on a radio, and talk to others around the world, and you do not get hurt. Amazing that these so called professors teach our children. The faculty at UFC should be a shamed of themselfs for this to happen. With all the violence going around in our schools these days, I never heard of another student at any other school get shot, stabbed or hurt by another student while operating behind the radio. Hope that the manufactures of HAM RADIOS don't start putting guns in the radio as one of the options. # UFC GROW UP! START TEACHING THE RIGHT WAY! NOT BY YOUR REAR END. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
With all due respect sir, (and I do mean that) the acronym is University of Central Florida (UCF). #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ka5s

09-04-2003, 02:31 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KB2KAB @ Sep. 03 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm just wondering if the faculty at UFC, would realy like to take a look at all the negative publicity that they have caused in the HAM RADIO WORLD. It would be nice if they could look at all of these posts. ...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We know we're great. UCF has no such illusions. #Do not think that UCF must have a Ham Radio club. Yes, an engineering school kicking out its Amateur Radio club (for such specious reasons, too) is counterproductive. But UCF will do just about as well without Amateurs as with us.

I'd bet the University's portrayal HERE is far different from the picture just about everyone else has. #I've never seen Doctor Hitt's photograph, but from these messages I expect he's standing over the helpless and painfully bound maiden (K4UCF) , twirling his moustaches and laughing harshly while he waits for the train to separate her undoubtedly lovely torso into three pieces -- or moreso.

However, the persona we see here is not the persona that really exists, that the public sees, and those who deal with him daily. They see someone who is a good enough politician and administrator to be able to run a University, not some one-dimensional villain from a cheap melodrama. These are rare birds, hard to find, and worth having around. #

And you do NOT want the faculty reading these posts. Nossir! #Because in these posts we all too often look like the South ends of North-bound mules.

Cheers,

Cortland

k0xu

09-04-2003, 02:48 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KAMR @ Sep. 03 2003,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It appears you guys have lost touch with the fact that you operate at the University as a "guest" and you are entitled to nothing, assuming pof course you have no commitment in writeing from them.

Bob KAØMR[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
On the contrary, they are paying customers. Despite the feelings of most faculty or staff, the students are what the university is all about. They PAY to be there. They PAY for services, and that includes activity fees for clubs and such. The faculty & staff are PAID with these funds. The students are not merely an inconvenience to the staff, they are the reason the staff is there to SERVE the students.

Yes, I did have a few run-ins with the faculty at institutions of higher(?) education. And yes, they were ALL settled in my favor save one. Now when they send me those fund raising letters I remind them of why I do not contribute.

w8lm

09-04-2003, 02:51 AM

Gee, too bad your not a minority group, illegal aliens, or have perversions such as those condemned in the bible. Have you killed any women in your car by driving into a creek perhaps? ... I guess Ham Radio is just too politically incorrect. Free speech, Emergency Prepardness.. yep right wing wacko's...
It's as if they think the lightning strike was intentional? If so by who? A supreme being perhaps...Just what makes them think it was lightning in the first place... I'm sure a direct hit on some PC box will peel it like a banana. And then there's, where was THEIR "good engineering practice" on the protection of their computer irregardless of the rest of the world.

Gee, maybe some truth to that stuff in the bible after all....

I say embarass them for years to come... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

KG4JYD

09-04-2003, 03:44 AM

I think a more rational approach would be to counter the issue with the resources at hand. Use local media, politicians, EMS officals, and anyone else in the community or at the university that would be willing to denounce this action via form of a letter directly to the parties involved.

If they tried, they could probably get something written up in the Orlando Sentinel about the issue. The local FOX News affiliate might carry an "in-depth report" on the subject if it involved enough large targets. Anything (almost) to draw positive attention to the ARC and negative attention to the parties responsible.

I'm not even talking about a mud-slinging campaign but just the basic facts broadcast along with questions to those in authority as to the reasoning behind the situation. If this were done and it was done hard-hitting enough and at the right time, a stay of eviction might be in order. They just need to learn which nerves to strike.

k4eez

09-04-2003, 12:41 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4JYD @ Aug. 30 2003,22:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">UCF has evicted their Amateur Radio Club - members of the ARC are contacting lawmakers seeking their help!

The University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club - <http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~wb4tcw/> K4UCF was evicted in June from the campus station it had occupied for 30 years.

The eviction reportedly resulted from complaints about the radio club by faculty who concluded that damage to computer equipment was from a lightning strike that entered the building through the club's antenna/tower system. According to club member Matt Kassawara KG4FEQ <matt@mail.ucf.edu>, the ham station is the closest facility to the antenna system and neither the station equipment nor the club repeaters were damaged by a lightning strike. The university's physical plant personnel also complained that club members worked on the roof of the building without authorization.

Although the club requested that UCF provide comparable space from which to operate, UCF administrators initially refused to accommodate the club.

Please review the detailed time-line and list of events leading upto the present situation and show your support for ham radio:
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~wb4tcw/evictimeline.html[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #Its always the same http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Tooooooo much polo-ticks #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #And stuck up people http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif come to mind, Now days its all micro; Micro is ok with stuck up people coz you can stick it in you pocket and no one can see it out of sight, out of mind, so no one cares, but when people are looking for an excuse then it comes to polo-ticks and stuck up people

Its a shame it has to be this way but people don't complain too much when it comes to putting up Cell Towers for the cell Phone, but I guess that’s for another time

Good luck with the case and I hope you win
I am on the Ham Radio Side, Where are you today?
All the best 73's

P.P.S. OPPS ment STUCK up, not Suck up, sorry guys 73's

K8AG

09-04-2003, 02:22 PM

I am finding that colleges and universities are NOT the bastions of free thinking that they are purported to be. #They tend to be very set in their ways. #This kind of conservative knee-jerk reaction is just another bit of evidence that free thinking and open-mindedness need to be practiced by the population at large, because we cannot rely on our learning institutions for significant thought and creativity.

73,

John Pawlicki, K8AG

AA4PK

09-04-2003, 03:43 PM

Has anyone considered enlisting the help of the local amateur radio clubs in the Orlando area to aid in this fight. #There's strength in numbers and a more organized, concerted effort involving multiple organizations might be beneficial. #Besides, the local clubs may find some potential new membership among the UCF student amateurs.

kc4nus

09-04-2003, 08:07 PM

We have asked for help from local clubs. #UCFARC officers have attended meetings of the Orlando Amateur Radio Club and the Lake Monroe Amateur Radio Society and presented the situation. #I believe Central Florida Repeater Association is also fully aware of UCFARC's plight. #A number of the club alumni have been contacted also.

From emails I have received, a number of these groups have at least emailed UCF President's office. #Most got back a form letter reply that the VP of Academic Affairs was looking into the matter. #At least that was what was being sent back previous to me finding out in June that Dr. Neighbor had been given the suggestion from two other VPs to stay out of the situation. #I don't know what reply is being given now, if any.

As I understand it, Orange County OEM contacted UCF about UCFARC's eviction and confirmed our involvement in covering East Orange County. #From what I understood the OC ARES/RACES EC to say, the response the OC OEM representitive received was best described as cold.

So far, our most active political supporter has been Florida State Representative Doug Wiles (WF4B) of the St. Augustine area. #Unfortunately, he even seemed to be getting song and dance answers when he last contacted UCF's President's Office & Provost's Office.

I'm hoping the local homeowner associations may have enough population clout to have the state sentators and representatives for the districts affected to take notice. #So far I have not heard back from the homeowner associations I contacted at the beginning of September.

I would hope with Tropical Depression #12 (expected to be a tropical storm some time tomorrow) about to pass around 100 miles north of UCF this weekend, the administrators would start thinking a bit more realisticly. #I'm not holding my breath. #Especially after the email exchange I had in July with the director of UCF's Environmental Health & Safety. #He expects they can handle anything since they have their 800MHz hookup with the county. The hour long discussion around that time with one of his employees in which she often stated she didn't see a reason for amatuer radio because they have cellular phones, didn't inspire any confidence either.

The UCF Police Department does not share UCF's EH&S views on amateur radio. #But then, from what I can tell, most of the people at UCFPD have actually worked outside of a purely academic environment. #And UCFPD's only agenda is the safety of UCF's students and employees as well as the residents around UCF.

ka5s

09-04-2003, 09:49 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8AG @ Sep. 04 2003,07:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">evidence that free thinking and open-mindedness need to be practiced by the population at large, because we cannot rely on our learning institutions for significant thought and creativity.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Isaac Asimov -- yes, that Asimov -- was at one time a professor of chemistry at Boston University. The University objected to his mysteries and science fiction, and threatened to dismiss him. #

Tenured, he couldn't be fired outright, so the BU administration did the next best thing; they assigned him no classes or students, expecting that poverty would bring him around. Asimov in part of his autobiography writes about the lack of support from faculty members afraid they would be next. if they talked to him. Approached in a hallway by a member who surreptitiously applauded his standing up for academic freedom, Asimov replied,

"I can define academic freedom for you in two words: Outside income."

In the jungle, the sounds its inhabitants make -- those who live for long! -- are only those to which no predator comes.

(grin)

Cortland

k3pd

09-04-2003, 10:29 PM

I suggest that everyone email a copy of this message to all the Staff Members listed in the head of this article.

To the University Staff:
In the recent matter of the expulsion of The University has failed University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club, the University has taken a step back into the Ice Age.
For over 100 years the hobby of Amateur Radio has existed for only one reason! The fact that Amateur Radio is to serve the public.
What your University has done in this situation is evicted the hand that may save you someday. Countless hams have given their life in the line of service to their fellow man. On September 11th this year, you may think about the Twin Towers in NYC, but I will think of the many hams that lost their life in the collapse of the communications center at the bottom of those buildings.
Perhaps the life of those crushed beneath the WTC rubble cannot be brought back, but I guarantee you that over 1 million amateur radio operators who are living in the USA will stand up proudly for the right to be an American and operate under the federal license granted to us. We also will speak not only on our radios, but we will speak with our Senators, Congressmen and Representatives who approve the federal funds you so willing accept.
You must have lost your sense in this matter. I am sure that many Alumni and others will respond just like me, at the total loss or your sense of decency and respect for services provided by volunteers. What will you do when the next Hurricane comes through? Will you call on the nonexistent club facilities of University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club?
Bah-Humbug!!

w6em

09-05-2003, 01:45 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc4nus @ Sep. 04 2003,13<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have asked for help from local clubs. #UCFARC officers have attended meetings of the Orlando Amateur Radio Club and the Lake Monroe Amateur Radio Society and presented the situation. #I believe Central Florida Repeater Association is also fully aware of UCFARC's plight. #A number of the club alumni have been contacted also.

From emails I have received, a number of these groups have at least emailed UCF President's office. #Most got back a form letter reply that the VP of Academic Affairs was looking into the matter. #At least that was what was being sent back previous to me finding out in June that Dr. Neighbor had been given the suggestion from two other VPs to stay out of the situation. #I don't know what reply is being given now, if any.

As I understand it, Orange County OEM contacted UCF about UCFARC's eviction and confirmed our involvement in covering East Orange County. #From what I understood the OC ARES/RACES EC to say, the response the OC OEM representitive received was best described as cold.

So far, our most active political supporter has been Florida State Representative Doug Wiles (WF4B) of the St. Augustine area. #Unfortunately, he even seemed to be getting song and dance answers when he last contacted UCF's President's Office & Provost's Office.

The UCF Police Department does not share UCF's EH&S views on amateur radio. #But then, from what I can tell, most of the people at UCFPD have actually worked outside of a purely academic environment. #And UCFPD's only agenda is the safety of UCF's students and employees as well as the residents around UCF.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Quite a predicament, and you clearly should not stop looking outside the box.....

The 'alleged' electrical safety issues were certainly claimed to be sufficiently serious to have made mention (in great detail) in the required annual safety inspection of FL post-secondary institutions (Sec. 1013.11 Florida Statutes). #You or someone should file a request with the FL State Education Commissioner in Tallahassee under FS 119.07(1)(a) for an official copy of that filed report. #Essentially, this is what FS 1013.11 requires:

1013.11 Postsecondary institutions assessment of physical plant safety.--The president of each postsecondary institution shall conduct or cause to be conducted an annual assessment of physical plant safety. An annual report shall incorporate the findings obtained through such assessment and recommendations for the improvement of safety on each campus. The annual report shall be submitted to the respective governing or licensing board of jurisdiction no later than January 1 of each year. Each board shall compile the individual institutional reports and convey the aggregate institutional reports to the Commissioner of Education. The Commissioner of Education shall convey these reports and the reports required in s.1008.48 to the President of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives no later than March 1 of each year.

Also, it appears that the President of UCF has breached both the Legislative intent and codified mission of post secondary institutions as noted below in FS 1004.01:

1004.01 Statement of purpose and mission.--
(1) The Legislature finds it in the public interest to provide a system of postsecondary education which is of the highest possible quality; which enables all students to participate in the search for knowledge and individual development; which stresses undergraduate teaching as its main priority; which offers selected professional, graduate, and research programs with emphasis on state and national needs; which fosters diversity of educational opportunity; which promotes service to the public; which makes effective and efficient use of human and physical resources; which functions cooperatively with other educational institutions and systems; and which promotes internal coordination and the wisest possible use of resources.
(2) The mission of the state system of postsecondary education is to develop human resources, to discover and disseminate knowledge, to extend knowledge and its application beyond the boundaries of its campuses, and to develop in students heightened intellectual, cultural, and humane sensitivities; scientific, professional, and technological expertise; and a sense of purpose. Inherent in this broad mission are methods of instruction, research, extended training, and public service designed to educate people and improve the human condition.

You may have sufficient grounds, based upon an inadequate showing in UCF's safety report, and the termination of the UCFARC breaching the intent and mission of FL higher education, in part, to seek a Declaratory Judgement to reinstate the club in a Florida court of law.

I'd be willing to review any and all reports and claims of unsafe grounding, wiring, etc., as I have considerable experience in industrial power systems.

Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL.

ke2iv

09-05-2003, 04:17 AM

I fail to see the issue here.

If this club (I would use the term "organization") has been recognized by UCF for 30 years then it has clearly obtained status.

As such, it should immediately seek a court injunction barring the university administration from doing anything to prevent it from continuing its normal operations (including barring any dismantling antennas and towers etc.) pending a hearing of the issues (whatever they may be).

No brainer.

Isn't at least one pre-law student in the club to help them out here? #Have they checked out any alumni members for a lawyer?

Oh, and has anyone gone to the law school's legal aid clinic yet?

Aww...on second thought...this must be bogus. #Unless the club did something they're not 'fessin' to! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

ke2iv

09-05-2003, 04:36 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8MP @ Sep. 02 2003,09:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys just need to recruit a homo or two.
After that, the faculty won't have the guts to mess with you. # # Good luck.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now this is exactly the kind of childish attitude that, if followed, would ensure that your club will never recover its position.

What this kind of stupidity has to do with anything is beyond comprehension. #

I guess the good side of reading this K8MP clown here is that at least while writing it, he wasn't adding to the usual oral pollution on 75M!

Oops sorry, K8MP, I love you guy! #Don't you remember that time in Dayton? #You, me and the 817? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

K4VUD

09-05-2003, 12:14 PM

Re K4UCF club station eviction notice UPDATE
Hello, I am a campus prof. and the man who was club faculty sponsor and who paid his $$$ to get the vaniety call sign of K4UCF. Here is the current status:
-Club eviction still stands. Official word is University is trying to find who will pay to remove the antennas.
-Club antennas remain in place as always.

If you contact the University, please behave yourself... flames will not help but reasoned comments will.

There is no fakery here; some physics profs thought lightning got to their computers via the ham antennas two floors above and removal seemed the simplest fix. However, there is no evidence of such a strike on the antennas, the rigs, the shack dual lightning protectors, the on-line repeaters, etc. The club has offered to fund an independent full professional evaluation of the ham installation and abide by the findings. University, so far, has not responded to this offer. de K4VUD

09-05-2003, 12:15 PM

Way to go Lee W6EM...

Your reply makes the most sense so far... You're suggested method will likely get their attention better than any amount of e-mails or newspaper articles....

kc4nus

09-05-2003, 01:08 PM

Due to the copies of some of the emails I have seen being sent to the UCF President's Office, the heat of the situation has definately increased. Considering the overall tactics the involved UCF administrators have been using against UCFARC, we will not be surprized if the http://ucf.edu/~wb4tcw web site becomes inaccessable in the near future. If this happens, please refer to our alternative site http://www.qsl.net/k4ucf/

w6em

09-05-2003, 03:09 PM

I've requested a copy of UCF's latest plant safety inspection, filed with the FL Commissioner of Education in December to see if any of the alleged unsafe conditions or code violations and safety issues have been noted.

If, as the club and advisors have stated, nothing has been done in the last several years to change any grounding or bonding of the equipment to allege creating an unsafe condition, then any claims about recent changes should be moot. #And, adds credence to the argument that administration claims were created in order to evict the club.

As far as contacts are concerned, it sounds like no one has gone 'up' the FL Education ladder beyond UCF Trustees just yet.

I'm going to write Jim Horn, the Florida Commissioner of Education, to whom the Boards of Trustees of FL's public universities are accountable. #Senators Graham and Nelson should have contacted his office, instead of the Emergency Management folks. #The Florida Department of Education homepage is:

FLDOE (http://www.fldoe.org)

KG4JYD

09-05-2003, 08:00 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc4nus @ Sep. 05 2003,06:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Considering the overall tactics the involved UCF administrators have been using against UCFARC, we will not be surprized if the http://ucf.edu/~wb4tcw web site becomes inaccessable in the near future. If this happens, please refer to our alternative site http://www.qsl.net/k4ucf/[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If I were yall, I would make a COMPLETE MIRROR at another site ASAP! That way if it has problems or they take it down due to "bandwidth overusage" then yall can simply revert back to another URL. A domain name is only $15 at DirectNIC.com (www.DirectNIC.com)

What I would suggest is to get that domain name, migrate the site to another area of hosting, remove it from the UCF server, and then put in an HTML redirect on the UCF server so that they do not notice a large bandwidth hogging effect from your home page. And when people goto your old URL they automatically get forwardedto the new one.

Anyone out here willing to donate $15 for a URL to give to the UCFARC?

K0DD

09-05-2003, 09:11 PM

I read this stuff and I just shake my head. #While attending the University of Minnesota we also lost our radio station and were displaced. #Our tower was also a multi-decade fixture.

This sort of stuff doesn't happen without warning.

A few years after I graduated my Frat lost its charter. #It might have had something to do with us being on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION. #The hate mail we received from the PRESIDENT, Board of Regents and the Greek Council while I was still in school should have been warning trouble was on the horizon. Somewhere along the way we forgot to pass on the news, and secret passwords to the next generation.... You are there 4 years, they are there a career.

Most importantly, everybody hates hams. #You are only a hero until the end of your next building collaps, Earthquake or power failure. #The public's memories are short. #The only people who like looking at radio towers, enjoy TVI and Phone interference are "radio people". #Our mothers and wives love us so they tolerate those things, nobody else has sympathy.

You will learn as you get older there's only two ways to deal with "city hall". #(or College Admin)

1. Stink up the joint, piss everybody off and then attempt to sue the crap out of everybody to get your way.... or....

2. Play their cheesy game.

Where you guys screwed up first is with the building super and the head guy with the Physical Plant/Engineering responsibility.

These guys are blue collar micro-managers with the actual "physical" responsibility for the building you are screwing around on the roof of... #You have to kiss these guy's tails. #Ask permission to violate their holy grail, fluff their egos, play to them and make them your buddy..

This may and usually takes... #Payola.

This may be in the form of a bottle of their favorite drinking stock, or a night with that special coed.. #This is sad but brutally true. #Then, if the chief engineer is in your pocket, the underlings are much easier to control. #

No matter what, everybody needs their egos fluffed!

I learned this with years in the Building Automation business. #I was the guy who was paid by the building owner, to save him money, but inadvertantly add complexity to the engineer's life by forcing him out of the stone age. #I learned you need to become the Chief's buddy.

There's nothing worse than having to look at his collection of the nude photos of his wife (without puking) or taking him out drinking on Saturday night to ruin your day. #OH, BTW when he finally shows you that photo of the old ugly nude fat chick don't say, OH YUK WHO'S That?

The President of the U? #Well you're already toast. #Unless you can get photos of him in the sack with an underaged freshman you guys are finished on campus.

Remember GHOSTBUSTERS............

Take your licks and move out... The next time instead of stinking up the joint, acting like you own the place and pulling ropes and wires all over some one else's building, make and maintain the proper friends first.

I can assure you your Radio Brothers of 30 years ago took the time, kissed and stroked the correct egos. #You guys just didn't get the magic words passed down.

Another lession for you is go rent "Back to school" with Rodney Dangerfield. #He sums the modern world up in easy to understand English.

This preparation is going to help you a lot when you wanna stack that 60 foot tower along side your first house. #You can have a shootout with the neighbors or have all your blackmail photographs in a folder first.

If you are really sore losers... #25 years ago I too was a loose cannon ready to take on the world, kick ass and take names... #Go find yourself another strategically located club on campus with premo space. #Join their org, take over the club with numbers and start moving radios in.

If you are lucky it won't be the "Campus Cigar Smoking Leathermen". But then just imagine the headlines in that conflict..............

Delta OUT

kc4nus

09-05-2003, 10:54 PM

From the research I have done, what kept UCFARC unmolested for much of its 34 years was the 2nd faculty advisor of the club, Dr. Bolte, was the VP of Administration and Finance. #He retired in the late '90s. #

The fact he was the faculty sponsor, and the testimonials of the alumni members from the '70s & '80s who have contacted me is how I am fairly sure the installs done by the club were done by the numbers before I was passed the staff advisorship in 1992. #Since 1992, the only changes have been new coax cables and antenna swap outs when we were able to get Student Government funding to buy new antennas.

Some time in the '90s the building management was held by an employees working in the Health & Public Administration department. #The building manager we had dealings with was Dr. Sweeney. #We found him to be a fair person with which to work. #Likely an asset gained from working his way up to be a Gunney and then at least one officer rank. #And at some point, earning a Ph.D.

UCFARC's troubles appear to have started when H&PA moved into their own building and building management was switched to the College of Arts & Sciences. #It appears once that happened we were dealing pure academics focused on only their field of research.

Unfortunately, amateur radio does not appear fall under art or science by their definition.

KG4EKC

09-06-2003, 01:31 AM

I am amazed at the poor decisions that the administrators and Bureaucrats make. It is scary to me that these fools are running major universities. I look at the radio systems that our local police, EMS, Fire and even utilities use and realize how vulnerable these complex trunking systems are. These people have removed the saftey net from their own University. This in a time of Home Land Security!!!!! Somebody needs to send a new brain to the UCF President! I am glad I graduated from USF http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

09-06-2003, 01:37 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA3RFE @ Sep. 02 2003,15:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If anyone writes a letter to the school in support of the club's continued residence at the school, PLEASE use a spell checker and grammar checker! The last thing we need is for someone to write a letter that sounds like it was written by a fourth-grade student.

Don't make insulting comments, question the school's faculty's intelligence, make wild assertions of ham radio's importance, or otherwise write something that's going to make the administration angry.

Think carefully and insure your letter reflects favorably on amateur radio.

I have problems spelling at times and don't always proofread as well as I should, and I do use a word processing program with a spelling check and grammar check. It's much easier. I wish I could find a way to use it when posting in an internet forum such as this one, but it doesn't seem possilble.

73, Pete KA3RFE[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I will agree. The use of good grammar and good spelling is important when contacting people such as university presidents. Here's how to use a spell checker with an online forum such as this one.

Open a word processing program. If you have Micro$oft word, that will do. Inside that program, type your message. Next let the spell and grammar checker have a look at it. Copy the corrected text and paste it here.

09-06-2003, 01:42 AM

Wait until the next hurricane hits that area. The university will loose out on a lot of good press. They won't be able to brag that it was their own amateur radio club that provided emergency communications in a time of need.

Also I agree with those who have said it's time to let all the alumni know what happened.

w6em

09-06-2003, 02:13 AM

September 6, 2003

The Honorable Jim Horne
Commissioner of Education
325 West Gaines Street, Turlington Bldg.
Tallahassee, FL 32399

Subject: Dismantlement and Destruction of the University of Central Florida's Amateur Radio Club

Dear Commissioner Horne:

I am writing you today to request your assistance in directing the University of Central Florida to re-establish its student-faculty-staff Amateur Radio Club. #The club facilities were shut down in June of this year by university administration.

For over 30 years, the University of Central Florida's Amateur Radio Club has provided students with a location from which to enjoy their amateur radio hobby while away from home, to provide a means to demonstrate amateur radio technology to other students and prospective ‘hams', and to serve the university and surrounding community during times of need with a supplemental communications system and a cadre of trained operators to assist with health and welfare communications.

In June of this year, the administration of the university decided to close and dismantle the UCFARC and its facilities which were located atop the Math and Physics Building on the campus.
Among other things, the amateur radio club maintained two radio repeater systems which were used by students and the surrounding community and were part of an area Amateur Radio Emergency Service radio network, designed to supplement public safety radio in the event of a public emergency. #The public service mission provided by the students to the surrounding community has effectively been stopped as of June 2003, as a result of the dismantlement of the facilities by university administration.

Even the Chief of the UCF Police Department requested #the administration to allow the club and its equipment to continue operation as it provided a supplemental and effective system of communications to the university and immediate area during emergencies. #Law enforcement, fire, and emergency management agencies across the country are well aware of the public assistance provided by amateur radio operators in the aftermath of natural disasters and the horrific events of September 11, 2001. #In fact, the amateur radio service is now officially affiliated with the United States Department of Homeland Security.

The cost for the removal and destruction of the UCFARC equipment, according to estimates received by the university, will be in excess of $4500. # According to the information I have been given, none of the equipment or structures represent a safety concern to the building or its occupants. #There was a claim, by occupants of a Physics Department computer facility near the club's room, that lightning had struck the amateur radio towers and had damaged computer facilities. #The amateur radio equipment, however, was undamaged, even though directly connected to the tower and antennae. #If, in fact, a direct lightning strike (to one of the towers) had occurred, the roughly 50,000 Amperes of current would have fused many of the cables and conductors, to say nothing of the radio equipment in the room. #A more likely cause of damage to Physics Department computer equipment could have been in-building electrical switching transients.

In order to identify any undisclosed safety concerns, I obtained from the Department of Education, a copy of the UCF annual Physical Plant Safety Assessment Report for 2002. #The report is filed annually as required by §1013.11 FS. #The December 2002 report contained no claims of electrical or other code deficiencies of any kind in the Math and Physics building. #The report did indicate, however, unusually frequent, weekly load-tests of UCF emergency electrical generators. #Such testing requires automatic transfer of building load to the generator source and back again to the building utility source. #Through my own experience with generator systems and automatic transfer switch equipment, asynchronous transfers to and from generators can result in electrical transients and failure of information systems equipment. #Such equipment should be taken off line immediately before such tests, if it is possible to do so. #The damage to Physics Department equipment may have been caused by one of these frequent, weekly transfers.

Perhaps most disturbing is that no reason was given to students, faculty and staff for the decision to dismantle and destroy the UCFARC. #If it were the Physics computers, or the UCFARC electrical energy costs, or its small attic room being needed for academic purposes, at least students would know what the issues were and could try to negotiate an amiable solution. #From my understanding, the costs of operation of the equipment were borne by the student UCFARC organization and not by the university. #In any case, a claim that the mere presence of amateur radio equipment represents a damage or safety risk to other building equipment would be simply ludicrous and obviously a facade unless based upon a competent, independent evaluation of the Math and Physics building structure, appurtenances and electrical facilities.

UCF students have filed countless appeals since May not to remove and destroy the equipment; or permit its relocation and reinstallation all to no avail. #Even letters and appeals to the administration from countless public officials from Orange County and Senators Bob Graham and Bill Nelson have been ignored.

Sadly, the actions taken by the administration are not only contrary to the best interests of the public, students, faculty and staff; but they appear to have been unlawful as well.

For example, when the Florida Legislature established the mission and purpose of higher education in Florida Statutes §1004.11, it saw fit to include the importance of student participation in activities promoting individual self-development, a sense of community and public service.

#(1) "The Legislature finds it in the public interest to provide a system of post secondary education which is of the highest possible quality; which enables all students to participate in the search for knowledge and individual development;.....which promotes service to the public; which makes effective and efficient use of human and physical resources......
(2) The mission of the state system of post-secondary education is ...., to discover and disseminate knowledge, to extend knowledge and its application beyond the boundaries of its campuses, and to develop in students heightened intellectual, cultural, and humane sensitivities; scientific, professional, and technological expertise; and a sense of purpose. Inherent in this broad mission are methods of instruction, research, extended training, and public service designed to educate people and improve the human condition."

Several of the key objectives of §1004.11 FS have been met in the past by UCF student participation in the UCFARC, and the opportunity to fulfill these objectives will no longer be available as a result of the actions of UCF administration. #For over 30 years the UCFARC has provided a means for students to develop skills and abilities and to serve the public both at the university and the surrounding community. #These valued and necessary mission objectives have now come to an untimely and unfortunate end at the hands of what appears to have been a capricious and arbitrary decision by UCF administration.

Hopefully, appropriate action by the Board of Governors will make seeking injunctive relief to restore the organization unnecessary. #Therefore, as Florida's Commissioner of Education and as a duly appointed member of the Florida University System Board of Governors, I ask that you intercede in this matter and direct the administration of the University of Central Florida to restore the university's Amateur Radio Club facilities so that it can once again be of service and commitment to the institution and the Central Florida community.

If I can be of any assistance in this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. #As a registered Professional Engineer with expertise in electric power systems, I would be willing to participate in any studies or evaluations of the facilities in the Math and Physics building, should they be deemed necessary, at no cost to the university or to the State of Florida. #

Sincerely,

W. #Lee McVey, P.E.

QRZ Note: A similar letter has been mailed to all other members of the FUS Board of Governors. #Email #me at w6em@arrl.net for names and addresses.

kb7pwj

09-06-2003, 03:58 AM

I read the eviction timeline from start to finish, and I can't believe the criminal malfeasance and incompetence of the UCF administration in this matter.

In consequence, I sent an e mail to the UCF President (PresComments@mail.ucf.edu) to share my concerns. The full text follows. What do you think, OMs and YLs? Was I too wishy-wishy? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

TEXT OF E MAIL:

The following is a direct, unedited quote from UCFARC's online timeline (http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~wb4tcw/evictimeline.html) of events leading up to their "eviction" (or more properly, lockout) by UCF:

"May 31, 2003 Hearing no updates from CAS in weeks and fearing confiscation of equipment if not moved out by the deadline of June 6, 2003, club members spend the day removing all equipment from the shack.

The club is now officially disabled and cannot react to any emergency situations that may occur.

June 1, 2003 Hurricane season begins."

In a document littered with the bad faith, poor judgement, and downright corruption of university officials, these lines still manage to scream like an air raid siren.

I'm not from Florida, and it could be that all those annual news reports of hurricane devastation down there are exaggerated for insurance and federal relief purposes. Still, I can't help but conclude that you people run your colleges like you run your elections.

--

Rob Henderson
KB7PWJ

cc: QRZ.com

See my article "Low Power, Crummy Antenna," QST, December 1999. PDF file available from the ARRL website:

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/pdf/9812057.pdf

K0DD

09-06-2003, 05:57 AM

This message is made in response to Mike kc4nus's post.

Really nice post Mike BTW...

It sounds like the "O-fish-al" building manager Dr Sweeney was or is a cool guy. #However, what I was refering too is the Physical Plant Engineering Manager. #This guy is like the SUPER CHIEF on an Aircraft Carrier.

I have spent a lot of time in big U's and my wife used to work for one. #What you were refering to is the ADMIN level of a University. #This is the layer where everybody is a PHd of one form or another.

What I was refering too is the guys who actually do the work. #There is a super Muckety-Muck Micro-Manager guy probably with a name like "George Marhoon" that wears a uniform saying UCF over the pocket and has 150 guys working directly for him. #He has a very large smoke filled office in the 4th sub basement of the Admin building or Physical Plant who is really the powered force of the University.

The guy directly under George is the superintendant of your building (office in the 4th sub basement of your building) and these are the guys I was refering to. #They cannot be reasoned with and need to figure it out on their own whether you guys are cool or not.

The Board of Regents ALWAYS puts a level of academics over these guys. #Sam the Super usually has half a can of snuff in his lip and doesn't look or smell too good and his boss George has that foot long stogie always clamped in his jaw. #If he came to meetings he'd keep telling Regents the way the world really is...

This is why George has that really big office and why he's in the 4th Sub Basement next to the freight elevator. #He is also the guy with the reserved parking space at the side entrance with the 10 year old Caddy in it.

The board knows George can shut down the steam plants and all the power generation and in about 10 minutes if he wanted to and could make everyone's life a living hell. #They are actually afraid of this guy.

George also thinks GOD is the guy on the phone asking him what to do next.

THIS guy is probably the guy who made ALL the stink to the Dr Sweeney type guy and then on to the President that caused 1/2 your trouble. #He's also one of the GOONS that claim you guys blew up all the computers in HIS building. #Because we ALL know GOD is on his team so that's can't be the answer....

Also, I caught an early post on this thread that sticks in my mind refering to the Building Super not liking guys running all over HIS roof and making a formal complaint.

The Doc Sweeney level is where you have to appeal to his Educational wisdom and fluff his ego so he thinks you are really cool guys and on his team. #BUT, he has no real power in the building situation. #You prolly already have heard his, "My hands are tied" line. #These guys are always great when looking for funding however.

School has probably started again down there or will within a week or two, the real answer to the whole deal will be see who moves into the space. #I'd sure like to know that one... I'd have already mounted remote cameras in the ceiling and send in a local hooker as a student and start taping.

Hey I wish you guys good luck... #If you really wanna mess up computers you aughtta start playing with Tesla Coils.

73's Bob

KG4JYD

09-06-2003, 06:14 AM

When I lived in the state I know that Gov Bush (Jeb) liked to personally take interest into matters that affected people. Maybe we should consider contacting his office. Education is a priority in the state and I think Jeb would be willing to listen to a matter of this signifigance.

Jeb's Website (http://www.myflorida.com/b_eog/owa/b_eog_www.html.main_page)

w6em

09-06-2003, 11:32 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kb7pwj @ Sep. 05 2003,20:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read the eviction timeline from start to finish, and I can't believe the criminal malfeasance and incompetence of the UCF administration in this matter.

In consequence, I sent an e mail to the UCF President (PresComments@mail.ucf.edu) to share my concerns. The full text follows. What do you think, OMs and YLs? Was I too wishy-wishy? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, you weren't. #However, IMO you wasted your email to the president of the university. #If he didn't react to (US Senators) Bob Graham and Bill Nelson, why would he to your email?

Instead, go over his head, and send an email to Horne or Jeb Bush. #Or, to the heads of the FL Legislature.

I spent many years making sure the "George" types who worked for me in my plant engineering function didn't do this kind of stuff. #If they tried it, they found themselves picking up the tools again.....

K0DD

09-06-2003, 03:42 PM

I'm taking some flak from some of my Contest Club buddies, they say it is time to stop spouting rhetoric. From those discussions we suggest multiple fronts of attack.

1. Very gingerly continue your support building in the political arena. Jeb Bush is very good. We all know Ham Radio is the US Governments back up for Homeland security communications. Tom Ridge is probably the next office to get a letter. Breaking up a 30+ year active club is against US Policy.

Other than that go silent on the U's President, He's your enemy, take him OUT of the loop and then take him OUT!

I don't think mass letter writing campaigns is going to get you anywhere. A friend at the law school is probably a better idea for suggestions. Just don't let him know about any of the other #2 and #3 and #4 activities.

2. Seriously start doing the 007 routine. The bigger they are the more they are busy doing Monica Lewinski. A couple kids in a black sedan with a quality camera could end all of this in a month. You have already built your list of enemies. Now do just what the FBI would do. Put teams on each of them with cameras and build evidence.

Start thinking Revenge of the Nerds style of operation. Quite honestly guys, I spent a few years as the electronics guy for a Private Investigative firm. Normal people don't expect 007 to be functioning behind the scenes in their lives.

3. Start recruiting new members of the club. Except it is now a secret society. Everyone must wear white sport coats, dark sunglasses and loafers with no socks. Don't forget the finger swipe on the side of the nose as a signal.

Within months half the campus will be on your team.

4. Organize a mass sit in... We did it during the Viet Nam War, hell college kids just want to be part of something. Just don't explain Ham Radio to them, (Remember everybody hates ham radio) Make it unfair treatment of college clubs and political abuses by administration or something cooler if you can think of it. If done right you will have TV, international news, 100,000 students from colleges all over the state showing up... Civil rights leaders doing speaches. Jesse Jackson... The whole place will be in turmoil.

Have a nice day.

w6em

09-06-2003, 08:46 PM

Jeb responds primarily to issues generating many (as in hundreds and hundreds) of emails.

Skipping the president and his kangaroo court of trustees is a must, since, as you said, he knows full well what has been going on. #And, has already heard from lots and lots of well-intended local and regional politicians. #Unfortunately, most significant politicians have staffers (remember Monica?) and they open the emails and the letters. #And, they even decide which bureaucrat will get their politicopadre's epistle.

Drill down through the Florida Department of Education, and the next level above the trustees, aka the new Florida University System Board of Governors is the body to address. #The State's Commissioner of Education, the DofE head, so to speak, sits on the Board as its Secretary. #They hold the purse strings. #The holy graille of any bureaucrat.

Although Jebbie appointed them all, they act as a semi-autonomous body with staggered terms, some as many as 7 years. #And, based on their political affiliations, Bush has done a good job selecting the members from both parties and independents as well.

And yes, there are three attorneys, as I recall on the Board. #Three CEOs, two from noteable companies: St. Joe Minerals and Burger King (have it your way). #Even a retired Lt. General from the USArmy. #Did someone say UCF might have a MARS station?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Ciao

09-07-2003, 12:23 AM

Nobody wants a natural disaster, but...

Maybe the next natural disaster (hurricane) will strike in such a manner that the university will be left without communications! (especially the big wigs!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif And the amateur community will willingly provide their services. This would show the university just how important it is to keep the station!

How quickly we forget history! If I recall, in Dade county, the few cell phone sites that had backup power and survived the hurricane only had power for 18 - 20 hours. After that the only communications were via amateur radio! Now there is some facts to provide the alumni and the board of regents!

AD5OP

09-07-2003, 12:26 AM

Also, one more thing...

Don't forget to involve the local media! Before you do, gather up some hard data from the Dade County hurricane first and provide the Amateur Radio Service involvement to the media. Then ask the open ended question to the reporter, "What IF it happens here? Who will provide communication services?"

n8zux

09-07-2003, 01:00 AM

As I see it it's a sad fact they have to see a diaster happens where the place is in shambles I wonder if anyone has a copy of TLC's #( The Learning Channel's ) Twister? #there is some reality there I would invite these people for a meeting as a Sky-Warn weather readiness, then ask this if this University was damaged to the extent that medical assistance was needed what would you really do? #I'll tell you myself, you know Parents would be very upset if their child was injured or killed in a diaster, word of mouth traves fast if they ever found that it took awhile, I'll clue you in a Univ. Pres. where I went ( 1974 ) #in 1984 she served It was not much longer she was moving on, there was a Label word I'll not post here was not very good, but she made a name for herself and alot of people probably was glad when she left ! #in reality there are alot of JERKS #in this world #our Township Supervisor and I we talked for an hour at my house one night he is a Vol. Firefighter, he said about a cell tower opposition by people carrying what else Cell phones on their belts !

if you did the code corrections just to comply how far would you get ?? #that is hard to predict.

next question how many people are putting him on the Grinch list for Christmas and leaving him a peice of coal in his stocking ? # by talking to those like staff and how fast they have problems, make friends with their Union #Steward or are they talking Union yet , they will not say until the Cards are signed, and nowdays friday meeting and by monday registered to the Labor Board is what a Union person once told me. that is a clue to finding out as well any contract stuff is in works, a club member being a union person may talk shop in that prespective. #useage of information is a power tool use wisely.

I have seen a High School and I was only student knew a union was going in because of the Superintendent, I was also sly willie interviewing him that I had him for assignment in J. class to post his thoughts in the School News Freedom of Speech DUDE ! #

and my time at College that even the School Radio borrowed my police scanner and for some reason I had the freq. of a channel that was used by the college that a union employee also a Radio Dealer ordered the freq. for Robyn & Regency Scanners back in the rock bound days , it was fun to listen during class the spy vs. spy reports #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

and today digital stuff Nextels, Verizion Push to Chat, cell phones digital messgages etc.. #all digital now.

sounds like the place only back then 1980's now same odd twist person hates radio people, probably had his stereo jammed by a CBer from the 1970's #maybe failed the Ham exam too many times, know that scenario too well. #

I had a situation we discovered someone has an attitude long story short , People want protection in Byron Center Michigan and Cutlerville Mich should just buy a WX Radio Monitor with SAME technology might as well forget about the siren going off someone does not want to have preauthourized funds to sound a brand new siren. #maybe the People at the University should do the same . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

KA3RFE

09-07-2003, 01:42 AM

N8ZUX:

Huh???

ke2iv

09-07-2003, 06:24 AM

Wow!

Heck of a lot of responses. #Including the "deep creeps" and "conspirancy crowds".

I still suggest visiting the law clinic. #You have a heck of a lot of law in your favor. #You also have 30 years of history!

No one wants the publcity of a law suit - espescially (as one correspondent noted) because it will be found as a factual matter that a state-funded body is denying access for an emergency-oriented organization that has a long established presence in the affected community.

Good luck and good night!

George
KE2IV

kc4nus

09-07-2003, 02:49 PM

A lawyer to see just how far the university has bent any laws with their actions would be nice. #UCF has let a couple things happen in settlement in the past which I thought was silly but they didn't want the publicity a lawsuit could cause.

Unfortunely, the lawyers for students on campus appear to be fairly focused on items students would have problems with. #Landlord-tenent type stuff & car accident liabilty. #And we haven't had the luck of one out of the commuity offer to work pro bono.

Anyone know of a Ham licensed laywer database we could query?

Hollingsworth verified for us back in June the actions of the university didn't violate any of the Communications Act. #So we are left with the statues and policies of the state for governing its univerisities.

w6em

09-08-2003, 12:47 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc4nus @ Sep. 07 2003,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And we haven't had the luck of one out of the commuity offer to work pro bono.

Anyone know of a Ham licensed laywer database we could query?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You might start with the ARRL's list of FL pro bono counsel:

Louis J, Alfonso, K4LA
13385 158th St., N.
Jupiter, FL # 33478-8514
Day Phone: (561)391-2611
Fax: (561) 391-1317
Email address: ljalawfirm@aol.com

Jeffrey L, Baker, WK3U
14721 SW 151st Terr.
Miami, FL # 33196
Email address: wk3u@arrl.net

Edward Birk, N4XSY
12964 Forest Landing Ct
Jacksonville, FL # 32224-8464
Day Phone: (904)223-6876

William D, Clark, W8TXM
PO Box 206
Venice, FL # 34284-0206
Day Phone: (941)485-7194
Fax: (941) 485-0461
Email address: bill@netsrq.com

Seth Craine, K4LAW
101 East Kennedy Blvd., Suite 2700
Tampa, FL # 33602
Day Phone: 813-223-7474
Email address: k4law@arrl.net

Richard D, Davidson, KJ4QK
PO Box 2809
215 North Eola Dr.
Orlando, FL # 32802-2809
Day Phone: (407)843-4600
Evening Phone: (407) 423-4495

David A, Davis, WA4WES
4009 Danesborough Pl
Tallahassee, FL # 32303-2048
Day Phone: (850)488-2436
Email address: davidd@mail.co.leon.fl.us

James C, Fetterman, KE4ITK
4521 Suite A Bee Ridge Rd.
Sarasota, FL # 34233
Day Phone: 941-377-9595

William A, Frieder, N4QNF
3714 Wicklow Cir
Tallahassee, FL # 32308-3216
Day Phone: (850)488-2381

Howard Goldstein, N2WX
3776 Prairie Dunes Dr
Sarasota, FL # 34238-2853
Day Phone: (305)724-1826

Frederick Graves, W4AH
816 Dolphin Dr.
Stuart, FL # 34996
Day Phone: (772) 288-9880
Fax: (772) 463-6715
Year admitted to bar: 1986States licensed in: FL
Areas of Specialization: Civil Litigation

Alva A, Hollon, WA4BED
551 Le Master Dr
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL # 32082-2313
Day Phone: (606)439-1302

Alex Kaplan, WA4AK
One Park Place, Suite 240
621 NW 53rd St.
Boca Raton, FL # 33487
Day Phone: 561-338-0858
Email address: lawalexkaplan@aol.com

Alex Kaplan, WA4AK
9853 N. Tamiami trail, Suite 220
Naples, FL # 34108
Day Phone: 1-877-LAW-ALEX
Email address: lawalexkaplan@aol.com

Michael A, Lampert, N4QMO
1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd Ste 900
West Palm Beach, FL # 33401-2225
Day Phone: (561)689-9407
Fax: (651) 683-1559

Eric E, Ludin, N2EL
5720 Central Ave
Saint Petersburg, FL # 33707-1719
Day Phone: (727)344-1111
Fax: (727) 344-1117
Email address: eludin@aol.com

Melvin R, Manning, WB3D
13555 Automobile Blvd, Suite 360
Clearwater, FL # 33762-3826
Day Phone: (813)573-4419
Fax: (813) 573-0527
Email address: mel3d@aol.com

Richard J, Parkinson, WB4NTI
2813 Pioneer Rd
Orlando, FL # 32808-3224
Day Phone: (407)578-4791

Michael M, Raskin, W4UM
7710 NW 71st Ct Suite 207
Tamarac, FL # 33321-2931
Day Phone: (954)726-0333

Bernard Sternberg, AA4EE
8333 W McNab Rd
Tamarac, FL # 33321-3242
Day Phone: (954)741-6200
Fax: (954) 746-9307
Email address: hamradio@icanect.com

Bon Appetite!

k3pd

09-08-2003, 03:37 PM

ATTENTION ALL UCFARC MEMBERS, YOU HAVE A FRIEND IN FLORIDA! THIS EMAIL WAS JUST REC'D BY ME IN RESPONSE TO MY EARLIER EMAILS ON BEHALF OF THE UCFARC BEING EJECTED BY UNIV OF CTRL FLA. PLEASE ACT ON THIS AS THE DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY SEEMS TO BE OPEN AT ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER FOR YOUR CLUB. tnx es 73'S Pete K3PD

- - - - - MESSAGE PASTED - - - - - - - - - - -

Subj: Re: The University has failed University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club
Date: 9/8/2003 8:58:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: tonner@physics.ucf.edu
To: KC3TL@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Pietro,
I got a copy of this email by some route--not sure what.
As a holder of an Advanced amateur radio license about 30 years ago, I'm sorry to hear that you apparently have run out of room at UCF.
I'm currently the President of the Orlando Science Center. I'd be interested to talk with UCF amateur radio club, to see if they would be interested in a partnership with us. We may be able to provide some space, both interior and on our roof (for antennas). While it is not on-campus, strictly speaking, UCF has a significant presence in the Loch Haven park area.
Can you put me in touch with
-your club faculty advisor
-your club President?
Thank you,
Brian Tonner
President, OSC
(& Professor of Physics)

kc4nus

09-08-2003, 04:37 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3pd @ Sep. 08 2003,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ATTENTION ALL UCFARC MEMBERS, YOU HAVE A FRIEND IN FLORIDA! THIS EMAIL WAS JUST REC'D BY ME IN RESPONSE TO MY EARLIER EMAILS ON BEHALF OF THE UCFARC BEING EJECTED BY UNIV OF CTRL FLA. PLEASE ACT ON THIS AS THE DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY SEEMS TO BE OPEN AT ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER FOR YOUR CLUB. tnx es 73'S Pete K3PD

- - - - - MESSAGE PASTED - - - - - - - - - - -

Subj: Re: The University has failed University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club #
Date: 9/8/2003 8:58:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: tonner@physics.ucf.edu
To: KC3TL@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Pietro,
I got a copy of this email by some route--not sure what.
As a holder of an Advanced amateur radio license about 30 years ago, I'm sorry to hear that you apparently have run out of room at UCF.
I'm currently the President of the Orlando Science Center. I'd be interested to talk with UCF amateur radio club, to see if they would be interested in a partnership with us. We may be able to provide some space, both interior and on our roof (for antennas). While it is not on-campus, strictly speaking, UCF has a significant presence in the Loch Haven park area.
Can you put me in touch with
-your club faculty advisor
-your club President?
Thank you,
Brian Tonner
President, OSC
(& Professor of Physics)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
We have contacted Dr. Tonner, but do not know what to expect. #According to the information we gathered or were told by the College of Arts & Sciences, Dr. Tonner was one of the people which wanted UCFARC evicted (ref. Beginning eviction time line). #This may have been misinformation coming from CAS. #Considering the number of items of misinformation we have had to wade through, it would not surprise.

We are currently waiting Dr. Tonner's response to see where exactly he does stand on the issue. #While offering a place at the Orlando Science Center is generous, I do not see it being an overall benefit to UCF or the surrounding community. #

1) OSC is within a couple miles of where the main ARES/RACES repeater is installed. #Our repeater reloacting there will leave East Orange County just as dark for Emergency Communications as it is with us shutdown.

2) We often have students as members which live in the dorms and have no motorized transportation. #Going to OSC to operate would not be an option.

3) On campus we were able to provide members practically 24/7 access to the ham shack. #If relocated to OSC, availablity will likely be limited to OSC's hours of operation.

w6em

09-08-2003, 10:01 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3pd @ Sep. 08 2003,08:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ATTENTION ALL UCFARC MEMBERS, YOU HAVE A FRIEND IN FLORIDA! THIS EMAIL WAS JUST REC'D BY ME IN RESPONSE TO MY EARLIER EMAILS ON BEHALF OF THE UCFARC BEING EJECTED BY UNIV OF CTRL FLA. PLEASE ACT ON THIS AS THE DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY SEEMS TO BE OPEN AT ORLANDO SCIENCE CENTER FOR YOUR CLUB. tnx es 73'S Pete K3PD

- - - - - MESSAGE PASTED - - - - - - - - - - -

Subj: Re: The University has failed University of Central Florida Amateur Radio Club #
Date: 9/8/2003 8:58:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: tonner@physics.ucf.edu
To: KC3TL@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Pietro,
I got a copy of this email by some route--not sure what.
As a holder of an Advanced amateur radio license about 30 years ago, I'm sorry to hear that you apparently have run out of room at UCF.
I'm currently the President of the Orlando Science Center. I'd be interested to talk with UCF amateur radio club, to see if they would be interested in a partnership with us. We may be able to provide some space, both interior and on our roof (for antennas). While it is not on-campus, strictly speaking, UCF has a significant presence in the Loch Haven park area.
Can you put me in touch with
-your club faculty advisor
-your club President?
Thank you,
Brian Tonner
President, OSC
(& Professor of Physics)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Looking at the time that the email originated, 08:38AM EST today, I can guaratee you that at least one of Florida's Board of Governors or the Commissioner of Education had opened the letter sent to them regarding the UCFARC situation. #Or the editor at the Orlando Sentinel forwarded his emailed copy of the letter.....And, the phones were ringing.

I would not view the email as a genuine offer, but something to use to 'put out the fire' that's giving a few in UCF administration a BIG hot foot.

The fun's just begun.....

k4iii

09-09-2003, 02:37 AM

Shows true school spirit! Just like the beaurocratic administrations in universities in the US today. Cut every non-funded and/or student run activity, and hire more visiting professors and non-tenured to reduce costs so that more financial funding is available to boost your own and other administrator board salaries. Must be nice to raise be able to quote your salary with your groupie board friends, but think about what you are doing to the students you manage, faculty you hire, and where's the pride you have towards improving something? You have enough money, show us your real strength in not letting it "take your soul". Oh yeah, Administrators can be like CEOs also!

Alumni, time to get involved! If you have extra money to get rid of, make sure you put "terms" on it stating where and how it should be used, then CHECK UP WITH STUDENTS not faculty, to ensure it is actually going toward the stated cause! Saw 5M donated go toward bringing "relatives" of the dean to the USA, plane tickets, new homes, board, dinners, etc... and 10 new Mercedez, 2 for each dean to drive these people around, with funds specified for the Christian Club. (probably taken from, because the Pres. wasn't Christian!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Education seems to be more and more a game, students vs administration vs alumni, rather than a unity and diverse educational students, faculty, alumni and staff working in unison toward educational and research goals.
Even had different school papers for alumni and parents vs college campus students... (Campus papers had an articles once on rape and drug use on campuses today, while the alumni's version talked instead of future possible grants and research awards! $$$http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

A degree seems to be only an extra sheet of paper to "wipe" with vs "diversity factors", "feelings", "minority considerations", and the fact that IQ is now only one of many factors needed to get into a top-level university anyways today.

I believe the Government should crack down on universities and college administrators and board as well as in the commercial sectors! Probably could wipe away the deficit with the unlawful monetary gains found! Uh Oh, could you be next???

(I apologize to those few educational facilities that do a great job, it's truly a shame all don't)

Students, don't get involved, blacklists still exist in unidentifyable non-legal-finding forms, and unless you wish to get involved and sacrifice your education (it's not worth it) for the cause. It is a great learning experience on the "crookedness" and "self-indulgence" present in the real world and hopefully you won't do the same if in the shoes of the administration. Get OUT ASAP, transfer to another institution that is more interested in students and their activities and interests... You'll go down before the administrators and faculty do... Trust Me. It's happened.

w6em

09-09-2003, 03:48 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k4iii @ Sep. 08 2003,19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe the Government should crack down on universities and college administrators and board as well as in the commercial sectors! Probably could wipe away the deficit with the unlawful monetary gains found! Uh Oh, could you be next???

(I apologize to those few educational facilities that do a great job, it's truly a shame all don't)

Students, don't get involved, blacklists still exist in unidentifyable non-legal-finding forms, and unless you wish to get involved and sacrifice your education (it's not worth it) for the cause. It is a great learning experience on the "crookedness" and "self-indulgence" present in the real world and hopefully you won't do the same if in the shoes of the administration. Get OUT ASAP, transfer to another institution that is more interested in students and their activities and interests... You'll go down before the administrators and faculty do... Trust Me. It's happened.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Some food for thought, I suppose. But, is there really any hope of government applying the same expectations it has for the private sector to itself? Not really. The big bucks for private counsel to collect aren't there, with the possible exception of the False Claims Act. But, even it is not available as an incentive to rectify malevolent government behavior, since the Supreme Court's recent opinion preventing private individuals from prosecuting the Act against dishonest state government subdivisions when performing work for the federal government.

You say, students, fear the retaliatory hatchet? Well, where would freedom of speech be today if it were not for the likes of the Mario Savios of the '60s at the University of California? Or the civil rights freedom marchers of the '60s. Of course you wouldn't want to expect the administration to support requests for funding and the like, but to somehow convince the faculty to black ball any students who stand up for a just and politically correcat cause? Not really in the cards.
But, with a long standing, public service that is widely welcomed by the local community with safety and homeland security implications, I really don't think students should in any way be concerned. Unless, of course, they might be Physics majors and parade up and down the halls with "ham radio" all over their shirts......