Morse is History

[KQ6XA]

We are at the crossroads of the great highways: Future and History.
The time has come for the Amateur Radio Service in USA to graduate into the 21st century. Many countries have recently graduated, boldly taking the road into the future. Will USA meet the challenge at this junction? The future is vibrant with rapid advancements in communications systems that were beyond realization for mid-20th century hams. Steeped in the tradition of 19th-century-born pioneers, morse telegraphy once stood proudly etched in the stone of international law as a rite of passage.

Tradition and Equality
In America, as great as our system of government is, we still have found the need for change. Our laws and society have grown more civilized as they evolve into a more just equality for all people; away from domination of the minority by the majority. We once legally discriminated against anyone who was different, we disenfranchised anyone who was was not part of the status quo, and we marginalized minorities. In my lifetime, I have watched those barriers come crashing down. Now we are reaping the benefits of advancement, spurred on by some of the best and brightest among those that were once outcasts.

Lost: 30% Of All Highly Qualified Operators
As a musically talented youngster at the age of 8, morse code was easy and fun for me. Since then, I have helped 50 others to develop their own talent for morse. Some of them mastered it easily... but 15 intelligent, motivated people of those 50 did not have the talent for morse. The untalented included a Physicist, a Broadcast Engineer, an RF Design Engineer, a Founder of a high-tech instrumentation company, a high school science Teacher, an emergency radio Dispatcher, a Patent Attorney, and other individuals of high caliber. These people are not wimps when it comes to acquiring new knowledge. Most of them could pass the Extra written exam; all were intelligent and hard working. But they simply were not musically or audibly talented in beep deciphering. They knew exactly why they wanted to operate HF. After all, HF communications is a driving force at the core of Ham Radio. But Ham Radio turned them away. They are gone, we lost them. Is 30% important? Statistically speaking, 30% is a minority. Are we to continue to disenfranchise this untalented minority, especially when it includes some of the best and brightest?

For many years, I have watched us lose too many of those highly qualified radio operators and radio experimenters as a result of the morse testing requirement barring them from HF. We legally discriminated against them for not having the talents of the status quo. Who knows, maybe we lost the person who would have invented a technology for amateur HF voice in a 500Hz bandwidth!

Clinging to the Past?
Although my code speed has diminished slightly over the years from a once contest-honed 45WPM, I still love operating CW with a straight key, a bug, or a keyer... QRP and QRO. Perhaps, after our older beep-beeping generations are gone, there will be fewer ops out there making the music of CW on the air. Does that make me sad? No. Time marches on, we accept change and embrace it. There was a day when the talent for sending morse was truly needed in radio. That day ended many many years ago. Now it is time to let CW stand on its own as a noble mode.

Test Knowledge Not Talent
Sending and receiving morse is the only #talent test that has ever been required for hams. If we are to continue to fall into the trap of testing for talent, why not test the operator's talent with keyboarding at 40WPM? Or perhaps the talent of rapidly tuning a mobile antenna for low SWR? These talents are much more appropriate to today's amateur radio and emergency services needs. Amateur radio examinations should focus upon testing the applicant's knowledge about amateur radio.


Tough Written Test as a Filter?
Some say that after the morse test is abolished soon, we should establish some other sort of magically difficult test to filter out undesirables from the amateur radio service... There is no legitimate test anyone has ever conceived that will filter undesirable people. Only the enertia of good operators continuing to provide peer support, and beaming as shining examples in the amateur community, can have that effect.


Morse is History
Morse is a wonderful part of radio's history. Let us honor it, with the respect it deserves, and no longer use it as a tool for oppression. [/b]

Now it's time to push onward together and take the superhighway into the future.

Bonnie KQ6XA

[N2YPH]

Excellent article.

The one place I would disagree:

"Tough Written Test as a Filter?
Some say that after the morse test is abolished soon, we should establish some other sort of magically difficult test to filter out undesirables from the amateur radio service... There is no legitimate test anyone has ever conceived that will filter undesirable people. Only the enertia of good operators continuing to provide peer support, and beaming as shining examples in the amateur community, can have that effect."

I don't think "filtering undesirable people" is the goal, the goal is rewarding those who "go the extra mile" with extra operating privileges.

While I support the abandonment of Morse, I do realize that the difference between Tech and Extra will be virtually nil if Morse is eliminated with the current testing structure.

Extra should be "extra tough" and have "extra rewards". I would love to see the Extra exam gain additional content relating to "bleeding edge" radio technologies.

Also, "multiple guess" examinations should be eliminated. One's knowledge should be tested, not their ability for rote memorization. (In short, "multiple guess" should be abolished for the same reason that Morse should be abolished.) As it is now, one can simply memorize all questions from a question pool and come up with the answer. The exams need to be "toughened up" with open-ended questions that need the user to actually THINK instead of memorizing.

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, "multiple guess" examinations should be eliminated. One's knowledge should be tested, not their ability for rote memorization. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

My advisor when I was an undergraduate did a PhD in education. One of the topics of his research was whether or not multiple-guess tests were easier than essay tests. His conclusion, similar to that arrived at in many studies on testing, was that multiple-guess tests are not inherently easier than essay tests.

Some of the material for elements 2-3 can only be learned by memorization, such as the tables of allowed frequencies, modes, and power. Most of it is best learned by learning to understand the underlying material.

I believe that it is the availability of the exact question / answer pool that is an issue here, not merely that the tests are multiple-guess.

I suppose it is possible to memorize the entire question pool, but I suspect it would be easier to learn the underlying material. This is especially true for the extra test, which is longer, and has a larger question pool, than either of the other elements.

[kd7nqb]

Here is my 2 (or more) cents. I am a 17 year old No-Code Tech I would have no problem passing the general written test. The code is the hard part for me but I belive we need to keep the code test. I am actully upset that extra class now only is 5wpm this is an outrage. We need to keep some aspects of the history around in this hobby. I think that morse code is an important aspect of this wonderful hobby. Well thats my input
-Kd7nqb-

[N8PU]

I hope I am wrong; but I see a war of words comming again. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[W8FAX]

DANG this code stuff sure makes good trollin' bait...............

[KG4ROT]

I am obviously to stupid to get into this one.
"A tool for oppression". That is a bit over the edge.
Cheers!
Terry

[W8FAX]

Ohhhh..........................WOW!!!!!!!!!

[w4agn]

A lot of people want to be Pilots and Astronauts, but if
the can't pass the test they don't get the call!!

[K3ESE]

...could this be one of those "code vs. no-code" threads? Cool! We need more of these threads! I really think there's more to say about this topic...worlds more.

#Everyone should start one of these threads, every day. I bet we could have hundreds going at the same time! That way, we could see if there's any more variety in the way people say "I like code," or "I don't like code."

After all, there's nothing else to do, is there?



On a more serious note...the concept that an intelligent, motivated person being unable to pass the current 5 wpm test, the way it's administered, is a laugh riot! Those who can't do it are so resentful of being forced to do it, they can't get past their own resentment enough to get in the #pitiful few dot and dash combos that make up the code, IMHO.

[KC8TGU]

Morse code should stay as a requirement for General and Extra class licenses. I am 13 years old and have my General license. I can copy code from 35 to 40 wpm, so I obviously have a talent for it. But that does not effect my strong opinion on whether it should be a requirement. True, techonology has advanced drastically. True, the need for morse code has waned to some degree. But eliminate it from the exam? CW still has enormous importance. In emergencies, when conditions are outrageous, morse code can be the only mode that will get through.
Eliminating CW as a requirement will inevitably decrease the number of CW operators to such a ferocious paucity that in future times that CW is a requisite, the new generation will not know A from B!
So many hams are not interested in CW at all, and I say, "Too bad. They have to know it to operate HF."

If we lose the necessity for CW, than we lose the existence of it also.
73, Charles kC8TGU God Bless.

[n3zat]

Well at last the debate is over ? Please go away . Crying time again Im going to miss you ! Thank God for little favors.I guess I' ve got room now to try my hand at straight Key ? let the games begin. N3ZAT not all that good at CW but what else is there.

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am 13 years old and have my General license. CW still has enormous importance.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Hi Charles,

Congratulations on your General ticket and on your code skill.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In emergencies, when conditions are outrageous, morse code can be the only mode that will get through.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This is commonly stated, but, in practice turns out to be rarely true. So rarely, that there are many other emergency skills one should master before bothering with the code.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
So many hams are not interested in CW at all, and I say, "Too bad. They have to know it to operate HF."
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

You can't make someone interested in something by forcing them to pass a test in it. If they weren't interested in the first place, then all you can do is make them resent it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If we lose the necessity for CW, than we lose the existence of it also.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

If the only thing keeping Morse alive were a test requirement, than we would hear no Morse on the air. People would study it well enough to pass the test and then never touch it again.

It is a good thing that there are plenty of reasons that people will stay with Morse code. Morse is a pleasure for many of us, and we who enjoy it will keep it alive, whether others are required to take a test or not.

73,

Marty AE6IP

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w4agn @ Aug. 28 2003,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A lot of people want to be Pilots and Astronauts, but if
the can't pass the test they don't get the call!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
But fixed-wing pilots aren't required to pass the rotary-wing (helicopter) requirements, just because helicopters are useful.

[W5HTW]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Our laws and society have grown more civilized as they evolve into a more just equality for all people; away from domination of the minority by the majority.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I thought that was called Democracy. If not, why vote?

When we get where we can 'really' legislate everyone into being identical, then maybe such attempts will work. Until then, I still see short people, tall people, white people, black people, skinny people, fat people, dumb people, smart people, ambitious people, lazy people, those who can jump and those who can't.

Equality is not legislated; it is earned. And we have plenty of examples to prove it. What was it Lincoln said? ... You cannot create equality by taking from the stong and giving to the weak? Or was that in another nation?

But as a code debate? Nah, not worth the effort - the fat lady has sung on that one.

Ed

[W5HTW]

"stong?" I wonder how to wear that! Make that "strong!"

ed

[kc2jga]

Hooah!!

[W6MKU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AE6IP @ Aug. 28 2003,15:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If the only thing keeping Morse alive were a test requirement, than we would hear no Morse on the air. People would study it well enough to pass the test and then never touch it again.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
There ARE still some people running Morse? You could have fooled me. I've made a "hobby" of tuning 80 meters for CW operators during the times of the evening and morning when the phone subband is jammed wall to wall. The busiest I have found the band when there is no contest running over the last two months was 5 QSOs in some narrow band mode or other, digital or CW. The most CW operators I have heard was a whole three of them, one calling CQ and one that sounded like code practice.

CW is as dead as its practitioners make it. If there really are too few practitioners then it becomes a "Society of Creative Anachronism" thing or an empty state electronics boat anchor collector's thing. It certainly is not mainstream hamming as practiced today.

Even on 20 when the band is open and lively the number of CW QSOs in the US CW only subband is miniscule compared to its carrying capacity. (Of course, for some reason the ARQ people seem to like jamming the PSK31 people on 14.070+ while tens of kHz are empty. Go figure.)

Maybe it really is time to reassess the need for CW as an exam element. Do note that if there is ANY CW only subband at all it can be made a place that automatically requires knowledge of CW if someone wants to use it. Perhaps there needs to be a CW only subband as well as a modest "narrow band modes" subband limited to 500Hz or less modes. That would preserve the sanctity of CW for those who need it while perhaps making the subbands saner, if proportional bandwidths are allocated.

Again, I note that a CW only (no other narrow band modes allowed) subband would automatically require a "CW test" to use it. If you don't know CW, one way or another, you don't use it.

{^_^} W6MKU licensed since '59 and STILL hates CW.
Mild dyslexia does that to you.

[k9ml]

Hi!
Isn't Amateur Radio a hobby? I got the bug over forty years ago and spent most of my adult life working in electronics and communications. I have all sorts of licenses and certificates to enable me to work. Ham radio was part of the drive to get a profession, but it's just a hobby that helped me learn. No one is eliminating the CW segments on the ham bands as best as I can tell. I started out with vacuum tubes and now its integrated circuits that come with novel-sized operating manuals.
Time waits for no one,
KC9EGB

[kc0nar]

I am not going to open the door on if I approve/disapprove the dropping of the code. What I dont like is the holier-than-thou attitudes from some hams.Like I am XX years old and can copy XX wpm. Dont forget the "if i can do it anyone can" phrase.Im glad you got your code skill down, however it is not as easy for all of us. I am 28 and have been trying for 2 and a half years now, close but just cant quite get it. It just seems to me that if the "big guns" of HF are going to look down on us who are struggling, it really takes away a lot of the drive. 73 KC0NAR P.S. I will still get Element 1 passed....sometime.

[KB9KLC]

I agree with the antenna tuning part, but why on earth would I need keyboarding to do cw? Or ssb for that matter. However I don't think it matters what I think, you think, or most others for that matter. The government will do whatever they think is right anyway. In the mean time I'll be glad to just keep on keeping on with my 817, superantenna, and Bencher if I'm portable, or ssb from home... 73 and good luck to all http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KD7EFQ]

Ok, Yeah Baby, Yeah! out with CW and out with their sub-band allocations. SSB priveleges for all on all frequencies! ( Now watch the flame wars really begin!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Actually, I don't care which way we go now as I can't change anything, and the FCC will do as it pleases anyway. Isn't it amazing that the FCC has no actual engineers employed in upper managment, but plenty of lawyers & politicians! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[W7MEX]

An excellent article Bonnie, thank you. #I think most people forget that cw is not going away. #It's still a viable mode. #I know I plan to operate with it. #One thing I heard (and hope was a bad rumour) is the ARRL taking the code practice off the airways! #Bad idea, I hope they don't. #I don't waste my time with the "cw debate" either. #I have my opinion and I think most intelligent people can figure things out, without the dull endless postings. #Too frequently I've seen a good posting hijacked as people take the topic on some far away tangent. #So I just wanted to say, good job and thanks for sharing your ideas.

73, Doug, W7MEX

[AC7XC]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0913990531.01._PE20_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg Bonnie Crystal co-authored a CB Radio Book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0913990531/qid%3D1062114599/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr_11_1/102-1486941-9755361)
Bonnie Crystal just wants to sell more books, I'm sure her next book will be for ham radio portable operations while exploring caves. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I pray that the day is near when Morse code and the debate about it will end. I thank Bonnie for her thoughtful comments on this subject. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KD5WBJ]

Keep pushing it babe!
You will soon have all your 10-4 good buddy locals on the ham bands with you.
Mike

[ag9r]

As always some one has do dig up that OLD TIRED DEAD horse and Beat it again! Jesus Christ enough already. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[w0aew]

Maybe the CW test could be replaced with a touch-typing test and the submission of a short essay that demonstrates the ability to produce evidence supported with logical argument.

Since so many hams communicate now on the QRZ message board, such a test could prove a useful filter.

[k6xr]

Great writting bonnie! If this was english 1a, you would deserve an "A".

It is all to true!

[k1ya]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k6xr @ Aug. 28 2003,18:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Great writting bonnie! If this was english 1a, you would deserve an "A".

It is all to true![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sorry, but you get a "D" for spelling.
"Writing", "Too"

[w6th]

WA5OES
QUOTE:
Maybe the CW test could be replaced with a touch-typing test and the submission of a short essay that demonstrates the ability to produce evidence supported with logical argument.
UNQUOTE:

This is what it really means:
What does typing have to do with code, no brains. #What does logical argument have to do with electronic skills. #"This guy is a nut".
Could add this also:It is a hobby with skills, anyone can type.
"He is a double nut".

You sound like my old professor I had back in college. #Are you he as he was a nut.

[KG4ROT]

"Mein Kampf" was also well written. Take it for what its worth.

[KB9REE]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif The loss of the code test is inevitable. It is sad in some ways. I think we missed our best chance at compromise the world radio conference in that they should have said code test required to have privileges on any cw only portion of any band. Oh well, I stirred up a hornets nest at our last club meeting by suggesting that we give a certificate of distinction to our first "no-code General" and our first "No-code Extra". A dubious distinction at best, but it opened up the code-no code can of worms all over again. More comments about code another time. I do love it, but time is marching on.
Terry

[kr4xh]

1
2
3
4
United States of America
Federal Commission of Communications
FCC Form B-605
August, 2003
Operator Permit
Amateur Radio Operator License
_
Address
_
Once you complete and sign this document you are authorized to transmit on all Amateur
Frequencies. You are encouraged to run high power so that you do not have to repeat your
Transmissions over and over. You may use your call sign to identify yourself if you so
Desire although it is no longer necessary. Just use your name or “handle” for simplicity.
You can basically operate in any manner you desire.
Limitations (NONE)
_
Do Not Mail this form this is your Amateur License
FCC


Is this what everybody really wants?


I hope not.


73


don # #KR4XH

[W8FAX]

I can't believe that thing popped up again.............

[KD4LEI]

Future of Ham radio...

Just to remind you guys of three letters;

B
P
L

We're so worried about this code going away issue and turrning it into YET ANOTHER code/no-code debate.

HF will get blown away, we then can't get out on HF because it's being overun by the amount of QRM that will come from BPL. If this is the case, it will then in turn make a mute point out of this constant debate we are having. So keep going at it and by the time we realize it, BPL will run us all off of the HF bands.

Keep being distracted by a minor issue at this point rather than the big one that is little right now, but will bite us later.

Question? What is the most imminent problem?

BPL or the code possibly going away? BPL BY FAR worries me more than the code issue at this point.

I will leave you all with that as food for thought...

73!

[KG6RBG]

That was an excellent article, KQ6XA, and I must admit #that I fall into that minority category of well-educated persons who have trouble distinguishing the dits from the dahs.

I am at present a licensed Technician and am fairly new to Amateur Radio although I've been a SWL for years. # One thing I have observed over the years is that some of the older Hams seem to take the "I got mine, so now you get yours" stance (an attitude not limited to Amateur Radio, by the way), and the implications of that line of thinking speaks volumes about the current mindset of those operators.

I must admit that I can see the value of knowing code, (and some of you have stated the obvious reasons in earlier posts),#however, I must also admit that I cannot see the value of limiting the hobby due to the lack of certain talents of new enthusiasts.

My thinking is that people who find Morse fascinating will not allow it to die simply because they do love it. # There will always be those who are interested in CW just as there will always be new generations of young people who'll discover the sound and the mystery of that mode of communication.

[kd5sdi]

Tradition, quality of operator, and trial by fire be damned. I just think that cw is cool. I am a no code at the moment because radio is a hobby, and I have alot on my plate; however, I am practicing and hopefully will make it soon. If you don't like it you don't have to use it. I don't think that they should make you know it, it makes for more bandwidth for the rest of the operators. How could you not like the idea of qrp rigs that can work the world for twenty dollars in parts and a wire dipole?

[k7unz]

Ya know, I really hate to get myself involved in this stupid arguement....but again, I guess it's like the moth and the flame. #Sometimes you just can't resist....so, I would like to take a minute or two of your time to vent my own opinions & observations on the matter.

Firstly, we're talking about dropping morse testing as a requirement for a ham ticket. #I don't know why so many of you seem to take this to mean that dropping the testing is the same as eliminating cw from the operating modes authorized for use. Nothing in the works mentions eliminating cw as a mode of operation.

Secondly, cw is a mode of operation, nothing more and nothing less. #RTTY, packet, PSK, SSB, AM, FM, whatever....all are modes of operation. #There are no special tests for any of the others, so why do we still insist that there has to be a test for morse code? #No one has to demonstrate their ability to recognize baudot characters, ASCII characters, or any of the other non-voice modes. #And yet, we insist it is necessary for morse. #Why?? #

Thirdly, if the requirement is dropped (and even if it isn't....) what I would like to see is a question pool developed concerning proper operating proceedures for all the "speciality" modes. #Proceedures are what make ANY mode effective, and alas, from what I've been hearing on the bands, everyone has their own idea of what the proceedures should be. #

Fourthly (is there such a word??), My own opinion is that if the morse test is dropped, there will still be plenty of ops who will still look to the key (key, keyer, keyboard...) as their passport to the wonderful world of radio communications. #In fact, they may even be a better bunch as they will be doing it out of love for the mode, the challange, or whatever. #Not because they had to do it.

Fifth, you are hearing this from a guy who has been a confirmed cw op for over fourty years. #I don't equate good operating with the ability to "pass" a 20wpm code test. #And yes, I did my 20 wpm test in front of an FCC examiner when you had to copy the text, not answer some questions about what was sent.

There are lots of speed demons on the air who think they're doing just great, and I'm sure it impresses the heck out of a lot of newbies to hear them chatting back and forth at 50 wpm. #Now, if they could copy it they may be surprised at the number of times they would hear mistake signs ("?") being sent, words sent over, poor spacing, uncorrected mistakes....etc. #For some reason speed seems to have taken over as the way we rate cw operators.....be it good speed, or bad speed....speed rules! #Well, personally, I'd rather have a qso at 5 or 10 wpm with someone who can actually send well at that speed, then to have to listen to rapid fire mistates being sent and corrected. #Passing the code exam didn't turn everyone into wonderful morse ops!

No, morse isn't on the way out.....and I think making it a personal preference mode might even help it to live a lot longer.

As for the person who wants to eliminate cw bands 'cos they didn't hear any ops on 80 meters in their "prime time".....get real. #I guess by your standards we need to turn 12 meters into cw/data only, 'cos I sure don't hear much in the way of ssb going on there these days (and to a lesser extent 17 meters as well).

Okay, I'm done.....don't know how rational I've been in slapping this togeather, but I did leave enough typing mistakes (and spelling errors) to satisfy the needs of the edit crew that seems to feast on those things.

73 to all....cu on cw!
Jim/k7unz

[K8YS]

A tougher test? yeah, right.... not under the CURRENT EXAM STRUCTURE!

Today, to take the test, you go out and buy a book, you study the questions and answers, the SAME questions that are on the test, the test might as well be an OPEN BOOK test. There is no longer a requirement to know the subject [and this part is painfully true and very evident if you look at the dumb questions asked on some of the ham radio portals!].

Right now, the code is the only portion of the exam that proves you have knowledge of the subject. The answers to the Element 1 are not posted anywhere.

How about this idea.... why not change the exam stucture, let the questions and answers be secret, let the exam show that the applicant has knowledge of the subject, and then allow the applicant LIMITED HF privledges.

I would like to see a code-free HF license class, but QRP only, maybe even up to 20w ERP.

How about a two level license class, Class B and Class A. Class B would be all bands, all modes, 10W ERP below 30MHz, 100W ERP above 50MHz. Class A would be all bands, all modes, current max legal limit ERP. Class A would require 10wpm code, Class B would not.

This would give all the "no-code" types access to HF and still maintain privledges EARNED prior to any rules change.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n0irw]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ Aug. 28 2003,19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Future of Ham radio...

Just to remind you guys of three letters;

B
P
L

We're so worried about this code going away issue and turrning it into YET ANOTHER code/no-code debate.

HF will get blown away, we then can't get out on HF because it's being overun by the amount of QRM that will come from BPL. #If this is the case, it will then in turn make a mute point out of this constant debate we are having. #So keep going at it and by the time we realize it, BPL will run us all off of the HF bands. #

Keep being distracted by a minor issue at this point rather than the big one that is little right now, but will bite us later.

Question? #What is the most imminent problem?

BPL or the code possibly going away? #BPL BY FAR worries me more than the code issue at this point.

I will leave you all with that as food for thought...

73![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
if BPL does come to pass.....then CW will probably be the only mode that you WILL be able to use......

Kevin O'Dell

[kf4glg]

Seems like most of the people who have traditionally griped about the cw requirement just didn't want to do it!....no crime there! These same people don't want to "master" cw at a 5 wpm rate. No crime there either! The interesting part is listening to'em on local repeaters and low bands whining about it. That's ok too! Unlike them I have other portions of the bands to go where I don't hear any griping about it at all. We get to carry on our conversations with "the secret code" ......CW. It's really very pleasant! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .....mike

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W5HTW @ Aug. 28 2003,15:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What was it Lincoln said?... You cannot create equality by taking from the stong and giving to the weak? # Or was that in another nation?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think we can attribute that one to W5HTW...

Google is a wonderful tool for verifying quotes.

[KA2GWR]

Can't fly air transport ie TWA, Delta, etc. because I'm discrimated against due to failing vision requirements.

Can't ever be NFL or NBA player because I'm discriminated against due to NEVER being good enuf physically.

Can't ever being Nobel winning scientist because I'm not THAT smart.

And I'll never be on the cover of GQ because I'm...well you can figgure that out.

Life is full of filtering processes.
The reality is we are not entitled to everything we want.

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AC7XC @ Aug. 28 2003,16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Bonnie Crystal co-authored a CB Radio Book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0913990531/qid%3D1062114599/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr_11_1/102-1486941-9755361)
Bonnie Crystal just wants to sell more books, I'm sure her next book will be for ham radio portable operations while exploring caves. [img]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I pray that the day is near when Morse code and the debate about it will end. I thank Bonnie for her thoughtful comments on this subject. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thats gotta be an old book - especially with a section on "paying your dues to the FCC".

Citizens band used to be a hospitable place before they pulled the mandatory license. Sure you had a lot of strange lingo "wall to wall and treetop tall", breaker breaker etc

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4ROT @ Aug. 28 2003,18:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Mein Kampf" was also well written. Take it for what its worth.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you seriously comparing anything kq6xa wrote with something Adolf Hitler wrote? And actually I read the book - it wasn't well written (might be something in the translation...).

[K6BBC]

The FCC pulled the CB license requirement when they LOST CONTROL of the service, not the other way around as stated.

As for CW in the 21st Century -- it's BS.

K6BBC

[w3vet]

I agree with KQ6XA.
I passed my first Ham code test at 20WPM about a year before the requirement was dropped to 5WPM.
I was trained by the Feds in the 1960's and did radio ops awhile for a living http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I was also musically talented (I currently am a Jazz Guitarist which IMNSHO is a bit more difficult than the Morse Code) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I've since watched people barely get through a 5WPM test and never hone their code skills enough to ever use it. #

I love the code and would like to keep a portion of the band open for code for the afficianados and the people who only use code as many QRP operators do.

Having said that, I agree that the current requirement for a minimum proficiency in code to be licensed, amounts to a pointless discrimination against those less musically or rhythmically talented or inclined.

If need be, a good CW signal will cut through a voice QSO anyway so the mode will still work if there is someone on the other end, In fact, among the HF Pack members, we sometimes use CW Morse in the middle of a voice QSO and make contact voice to CW and CW to voice. Fun!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Let those like me who like it, keep it alive without exclusion, but rather by getting more Hams on the bands to save our bands and the interest in the HOBBY

There are new Hams who take to the code all the time and they'll keep it alive.

Let's make Morse Code live without coercion.
Sharyl
W3VET

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA2GWR @ Aug. 28 2003,21:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can't fly air transport ie TWA, Delta, etc. because I'm discrimated against due to failing vision requirements.

Can't ever be NFL or NBA player because I'm discriminated against due to NEVER being good enuf physically.

Can't ever being Nobel winning scientist because I'm not THAT smart.

And I'll never be on the cover of GQ because I'm...well you can figgure that out.

Life is full of filtering processes.
The reality is we are not entitled to everything we want.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Apples and Orange my friend. Good example (hypothetical) - "I can't ever climb a set of stairs because I lost my ability to walk" - well they put ramps everywhere (many of which are legislated) and now handicapped people can enter a lot of the same buildings everyone else does.

I never thought because of my learning disability I'd ever be able to go to college (at one point I was worried about graduating from high school), but I stuck to it and now I have two degrees http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

Some unequalities can be overcome or resolved. I think most anyone can learn morse code, but I never had the time, energy or dedication to stick to it until I lost my nice job at Rulespace. At my current job at Stream Int. (quite possibly the hardest job I've ever had) I don't think I could ever find enough time in the day to do any meaningful practice. Contrary to popular belief the ARRL 5 wpm test is actually 15/18 wpm character rate with spacing (seems to vary between 15 and 18) - so its harder to learn than many think - it does require intensive study. I thought 13 real words per minute was actually easier.

I still like my hypothetical replacement for the code test - and especially because a minority few want to make tests harder. Many hams claim CW certification is useful for emergencies - why not require phyisical fitness, the ability to touch type or write in shorthand as well - all of those would be useful in an emergency? Another argument is that CW determines the quality of an operator, or operator skill. Why not have a test in addition to the cw test where you setup a computer and a sound card interface to decode psk31 (speaking from experience decoding took a bit of practice for me)? Many people I talk to every day are computer illiterate and would not be able to complete this task - many hams I have met at clubs and conventions shun computers as well - and if they have one all it does is read email and maybe log contacts.

Anyhow I leave the forum alone for while http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif - gotta work tommorow.

After many years of screaming jet engines, machine gun fire, and not wearing ( Not having available. ) ear protection.. I have tried to pass the code test 4 times since I got my no-code ticket... I have taken lessons from the best there is, but when they put those headphones on me it's just a jumble of noise I hear. I have memorized the Gordon West tapes, I can follow my MFJ Code Tutor to the letter at 16 words a minute.. But as soon as I hear those ARRL code test tapes it's all over for me!
I passed the General written, and if I studied for the Extra, I'm sure I could pass that with ease. I'm all in favor of making the written much more interesting( Read that as HARDER.).
Please.. There are people out here that so want to get into this hobby, but they are stopped by the fact that there is a filter that won't let them. It's not that they are stupid, or lazy.. some people just don't get the code.
I guess there is nothing else I can say.. I would love to use the code if it just didn't sound like a bunch of noise to me. W7MAX

[VA2VA]

Excellent article, Bonnie. On my side of the border, I also wish that Industry Canada will step into the 21st century, possibly this autumn.

Personnaly, I consider the increase in new & young radioamateurs on the HF bands much more important for the future and development of our hobby than the Canada/USA reciprocity agreement that benefits only to those who travel across the border. I hope Canada will think about it seriously.

Bravo to all European countries who have dropped the morse-test requirement.

Mario, VA2VA # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kd5cir]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 28 2003,20http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Today, to take the test, you go out and buy a book, you study the questions and answers, the SAME questions that are on the test, the test might as well be an OPEN BOOK test. There is no longer a requirement to know the subject [and this part is painfully true and very evident if you look at the dumb questions asked on some of the ham radio portals!].

Right now, the code is the only portion of the exam that proves you have knowledge of the subject. The answers to the Element 1 are not posted anywhere.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sure am glad this dude knows all the answers to all the questions us other guys might have since some of us are posting dumb questions on some of the ham portals. Another thing here, can someone call this guy a WAAAAAMbulance, he needs it. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K2ACX]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0nar @ Aug. 28 2003,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not going to open the door on if I approve/disapprove the dropping of the code. #What I dont like is the holier-than-thou attitudes from some hams.Like I am XX years old and can copy XX wpm. Dont forget the "if i can do it anyone can" phrase.Im glad you got your code skill down, however it is not as easy for all of us. #I am 28 and have been trying for 2 and a half years now, close but just cant quite get it. It just seems to me that if the "big guns" of HF are going to look down on us who are struggling, it really takes away a lot of the drive. # # # # # # # # # # # #73 KC0NAR # # #P.S. I will still get Element 1 passed....sometime.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC0NAR:

You're right- we're NOT all the same, nor is it easy for everyone. #But you have a positive attitude, a fact which I believe makes all the difference. #You can and will pass it. #

And then, should you develop an interest in the code, plenty of us will be happy to work you on the air.

I'm by no means a 'big gun' on HF, just a guy who prefers code. #There's a difference between those of us who love and use Morse and those who would use it as an excuse to belittle you. #The former encourages and is willing to help while the latter takes the easy route and dismisses you. #

Unfortunately, the former seems somewhat underrepresented on these internet forums. I guess most of us spend more time on the air having fun than we do bickering on here.

All the best,
Brian k2acx

[VA2VA]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG6RBG @ Aug. 28 2003,19:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One thing I have observed over the years is that some of the older Hams seem to take the "I got mine, so now you get yours" stance (an attitude not limited to Amateur Radio, by the way), and the implications of that line of thinking speaks volumes about the current mindset of those operators.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Excellent comment, KG6RBG. The situation is even worse in Canada, where peer support is much more limited. Whereas there were many well organized clubs for learning morse code and passing the exam in a friendly manner in the old days, nowadays this procedure has practically vanished, at least in Canada, and the closest ham club does not even have a shack where I could get some real morse code training from other fellow radioamateurs.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I must admit that I can see the value of knowing code, (and some of you have stated the obvious reasons in earlier posts), however, I must also admit that I cannot see the value of limiting the hobby due to the lack of certain talents of new enthusiasts.

My thinking is that people who find Morse fascinating will not allow it to die simply because they do love it. # There will always be those who are interested in CW just as there will always be new generations of young people who'll discover the sound and the mystery of that mode of communication.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I also consider morse code as a valuable mode. I have tried many times to learn it and was probably ready for the 5 WPM test, BUT I felt too apprehensive as regards the test (unknown examinor, unknown environment, etc.) Today, I still want to achieve morse code proficiency and I plan to use it among other modes. However, given the lack of peer support and peer examinors, I think it will be easier to learn CW once we gain access to the HF bands.

73 de Mario, VA2VA

[w4cvl]

Am I the only one who thinks this is the best code/no-code article they have ever read.

I have been on both sides of this issue, but you know what, now that the leader of my cult (Bonnie) has spoken, I must obey!

Out with the old, in with the new.

We love you Bonnie!!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[dd9ur]

Hi folks !

Please don't missunderstand me , but I want to give you a short overview what happend in the last 14 Days of Shortwaveaccess to CEPT 2 Licenses....

1. A lot of motivated Hams are now on shortwave
2. No problems with the way how these new OMs operate
3. CW-Freq.Segments are still protected.
4. Germany is not broken down !! ;-) #

Sorry People , CW is probably an important Operating mode - but it is only one of a lot of important operating modes.

I know OM who have there CEPT-Class 1 License (with morse test) but they are unable to build up there own equipment. A question: Do you think that this is realy ham radio?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif What does is help that people can give HighSpeed CW but they are unable to set up there own equipment.....
On the other hand : I know since a long time a lot of CEPT-Class 2 OMs - they are very good people with a good way how they work and operate on VHF, and this for more than 20 years ! But if you hear the communication on the shortwave frequencys in the past , you could sometimes hear : "We are the 1st-Class operators !"

Sorry, this is ridiculous !!


Please think: Every Year we have less active OM on our bands. New bandwith-consuming technologys are coming ! What do you think people : #How long does it take that we loose some shortwave bands?? We hold nearly 15 % of the frequencys on shortwave, but how many OMs are really active???

As an example: From the year 2005 on, all German TV-Stations are transmitting with digital modulation (In Berlin from this year on! . On the frequencys below 1600KHZ they test now digital modulation (transmission in FM-Radiostation quality! ) In the past we have earned a lot of frequencys because nobody else was interested - but in the future ??

I think we need active OM on our bands - with CW-operation or without.

73 , Klaus

[W6MKU]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kf4glg @ Aug. 28 2003,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Seems like most of the people who have traditionally griped about the cw requirement just didn't want to do it!....no crime there! These same people don't want to "master" cw at a 5 wpm rate. No crime there either! The interesting part is listening to'em on local repeaters and low bands whining about it. That's ok too! Unlike them I have other portions of the bands to go where I don't hear any griping about it at all. We get to carry on our conversations with "the secret code" ......CW. It's really very pleasant! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .....mike[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Mike, if I could find a tenth of the number of people actually using CW when the phone bands are jammed I might believe some of you CW advocates. As it is I figure you're just talking about it without ever really doing it as a way of life.

{^_^} # W6MKU who considers three CW contacts to be
# # # # # #remarkably heavy use for 80 meters.

[kc0jez]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w4agn @ Aug. 28 2003,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A lot of people want to be Pilots and Astronauts, but if
the can't pass the test they don't get the call!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I AM a pilot. I didn't have to learn to rig the strut wires on a biplane, turn the prop by hand to clear the cylinders before starting a big radial engine, or to navigate by the stars. All things pilots USED to do that have been replaced by more up to date skills. No one is talking about eliminating a ham license, just adjusting the test to what is relevant in todays world. If I flew a Pitts or Stearman I'd be glad to learn to rig the struts and wires, but not something I needed to learn to fly a Cessna. We can be pretty safe with the assesment that ALL license tests have advanced over the years..except amateur radio which seems to be too deeply burind in tradition to move forward.

[KG4ROT]

n7wsb...I just threw the "Mein Kampf" thing in to see if anybody was paying attention. You busted me man. Bonnie is indeed a well respected Ham, I know that.I still find the argument that Morse is being used to cull out the most intelligent is a bit ridiculous though. I swore I was going to shut my mouth on these things, but I always seem to find room to put my foot in it somewhere. I'll eat some crow and go back to work now.
Cheers,
w4rot

[kf4dew]

I am glad to see MC being taken out. I think it has it's place in ham radio. But to upgrade, Morse Code should and will be done away with sooner or later. The clock is ticking on morse code. People who love it, can use it. So it won't be going away.

[kg4ywf]

10-4 all you good buddies! Welcome to the convoy!

Try this one on:

Lower the standards for entry and progression and you will get what you asked for...a lower standard of operator.

So, dont complain in a year or two about a lack of enforcement, or poor radio practice, or inconsiderate operators, or "spatter", or crowds, or anything else.

You asked for it, now live with it.

73,qrt

AA4VB (formerly kg4ywf)
Grant

[ve5rww]

If code is dropped maybe new Hams should be only used VHF and UHF for one year until they are used to simple opperation. Although there are some of us that have bad habbits and do not care to change. New Hams will have a chance to practice on more local bands and have local Hams to help them out.



http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wb9gkz]

I've been licensed for 32 years. #Had to pound brass in front of a real FCC examiner in the dank basement of the Milwaukee Federal Building to get my ticket. #Banged out 15 WPM that day as my shorts moistened a bit.

# # To this day, I'm still winding coils on toilet-tissue rolls, grinding crystals with Ajax cleanser on glass plates, burning my fingers on a hot American Beauty....while those young whipper-snappers talk on their Icom's and Yaesu's (with microphones!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

# # I've had enough of this discussion: #I'll be in the cellar filling the lamps with oil so's I can adjust the balls on my sparkgap tonight.

# # Darn, this radio thing isn't easy. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Morse is History
Morse is a wonderful part of radio's history. Let us honor it, with the respect it deserves, and no longer use it as a tool for oppression. [/b]

Now it's time to push onward together and take the superhighway into the future.

Bonnie KQ6XA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ignorance is bliss.

[K8YS]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,00http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 28 2003,20http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Today, to take the test, you go out and buy a book, you study the questions and answers, the SAME questions that are on the test, the test might as well be an OPEN BOOK test. There is no longer a requirement to know the subject [and this part is painfully true and very evident if you look at the dumb questions asked on some of the ham radio portals!].

Right now, the code is the only portion of the exam that proves you have knowledge of the subject. The answers to the Element 1 are not posted anywhere.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sure am glad this dude knows all the answers to all the questions us other guys might have since some of us are posting dumb questions on some of the ham portals. Another thing here, can someone call this guy a WAAAAAMbulance, he needs it. #<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

KD5CIR/8 -- you made my arguement... buddy, if the shoe fits, wear it!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now it's time to push onward together and take the superhighway into the future.

Bonnie KQ6XA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is too good to let it go...

I think Bonnie KQ6XA should take two grams of soma and call Aldous Huxley in the morning. It's a Brave New World out there full of universal happiness! Gradeless classrooms for all!

[FUZZIE]

ONE MORE EXAMPLE OF DUMBING DOWN...JUST LIKE OUR CLASSROOMS...LET'S CONTINUE TO ADVANCE TO THE REAR.....WOW, FARM OUT MAN, PASS IT AROUND AND HAVE ANOTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!

[N0NB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd7nqb @ Aug. 28 2003,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here is my 2 (or more) cents. I am a 17 year old No-Code Tech I would have no problem passing the general written test. The code is the hard part for me but I belive we need to keep the code test. I am actully upset that extra class now only is 5wpm this is an outrage. We need to keep some aspects of the history around in this hobby. I think that morse code is an important aspect of this wonderful hobby. Well thats my input
-Kd7nqb-[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
"No Code Tech"? What country are you living in? From your callsign I would assume the U.S.A., but what do I know?

The FCC has designated three classes of Amateur Radio license, Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Exam requirements not withstanding, I do not see "No Code" prefixing any one of them.

It would appear that your use of the "No Code" prefix is intended to pacify those that would belittle your opinion based on your relative inexperience and youth. You do yourself a disservice by assuming such a position of upfront apology.

Stand tall! Be proud of your accomplishment! Your interest in radio is what brought you to this community. Shun those that would force you to apologize up front for "failing" to meet the rigorous rite of passage they surely must have endured.

I personally do not see any reason why you should be prevented from access to the HF bands if you can demonstrate the technical/operating knowledge the FCC asks. I think you should be allowed to learn the code at your leisure and for your own satisfaction, not to fulfill some rite of passage.

The time for the mandatory Morse Code exam to pass into the dustbin of history is long overdue. I think the use of Morse will continue on the ham radio allocations for many years. Morse can stand on its own as one mode among many that hams may use.

As for a Morse requirement of greater than 5 WPM, it will never happen for exactly one reason--medical waivers. The dirty little secret before restructuring was that many hams received upgraded thanks to a doctor's signature. The VE team was not allowed to question the applicant as to the nature or reason for stating the need for the waiver as that was reserved by the FCC. For all the posturing out there, a significant number of hams did not pass any Morse exam faster than 5 WPM prior to April 15, 2000 and yet held valid General, Advanced, or Amateur Extra licenses. By setting the Morse exam to 5 WPM, the FCC apparently believed any reason for a medical waiver was not justified and struck the provision from the rules.

Should the Amateur Extra exam retain at least a 5 WPM requirement? Perhaps, but I definitely support striking the requirement for the General class.

73, de Nate >>

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2YPH @ Aug. 28 2003,12:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, "multiple guess" examinations should be eliminated. #One's knowledge should be tested, not their ability for rote memorization. #(In short, "multiple guess" should be abolished for the same reason that Morse should be abolished.) #As it is now, one can simply memorize all questions from a question pool and come up with the answer. #The exams need to be "toughened up" with open-ended questions that need the user to actually THINK instead of memorizing.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Exactly why should Morse be eliminated? I had a hard time trying to figure out what you were trying to say. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that because the Element 1 test is multiple choice, that it should be done away with? If so, the multiple choice Morse exam is no longer given. One's knowledge is tested on the Morse exam. When I took mine, if you didn't have one minute of solid copy, then you were given a 10-question test, which was fill-in-the-blank. The answers for the 10-question test came from your copy. If you didn't have good copy, then you weren't going to pass either way.

I will agree that test pools need to go away, as well as multiple guess testing. Those taking the tests need to think and use their brains. I'm studying for my Extra exam right now, and refuse to memorize any of the answers involving math.

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4

[k7xor]

I passed my 5WPM code test a couple years back to earn my Extra. Overall it was easy for me to learn the code just because of the way my mind works, but I don't think it's appropriate any longer. Mostly it's used as a hazing tool by older hams and makes people in my (younger) generation think that hams do nothing all day but send morse. No wonder us younger folk view our hobby as ancient. Every time I tell someone I'm a radio operator I get the ol' "Oh you mean you do that morse stuff..." Perceptions are everything....

I personally think that the written portion of the test should be made more difficult and should have a more extensive section on accepted operating procedures. If you want a replacement for the code test, then give an oral exam on common operating procedures to be used on the bands. This can be used to establish a consistent and professional group of graduates.

Perhaps we should test people who want to use the Internet and license what they can do. As a software and network engineer for over 10 years I think I can come up with a splendid test to keep out the riff-raff that will be on par with the Morse test. Here are a couple of questions, let's see if you Morse code folks can answer:

1) How many bits long is the TCP Sequence Number field?
2) How is the URG flag used in a TCP/IP packet?
3) What is the maximum length of a TCP/IP packet excluding data?
4) Describe how the traceroute command works.
5) What is a pseudo header and how is it used?
6) On a piece of paper draw out the a UDP packet header to be sent to port 53 requesting DNS information.

So these are all low-level TCP/IP networking questions that any competent Internet user should know, yet somehow I think you'll feel that you're still qualified to use the Internet even though you (no longer) need to know how this stuff actually works.

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA0MNX @ Aug. 29 2003,05:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now it's time to push onward together and take the superhighway into the future.

Bonnie KQ6XA[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This is too good to let it go...

I think Bonnie KQ6XA should take two grams of soma and call Aldous Huxley in the morning. #It's a Brave New World out there full of universal happiness! #Gradeless classrooms for all![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Didn't Al Gore invent the Superhighway and gradeless classrooms?

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N8UZE]

The tests, written or code, should not be designed as a "filter". They should be to test the applicant's knowledge of the material and whether they have the necessary skills, nothing more and nothing less. The question then becomes what is the appropriate material/skills and degree of difficulty that should be used for each license class.

If 30% of the original poster's students were unable to learn Morse, then I must seriously question the teacher's method of teaching. Anyone can learn Morse. It does not require any natural ability whatsoever. What it does require is the use of correct training methods and correct practice methods.

[m3stt]

Well siad that Lady, trust the testosterone to rear its ugly head and spoil a perfect discussion!

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (m3stt @ Aug. 29 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well siad that Lady, trust the testosterone to rear its ugly head and spoil a perfect discussion![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nobody forced her to make the statements she made. If she's going to make controversial statements, then she bloody well better expect the comments she receives. Do you sincerely believe that she made those comments expecting everyone to come in here and kiss her behind? Get real.

Oh yeah, I've got LOTS of testosterone, baby.

Steven / KG6JEV/4

[ki4bbk]

I must vehemently disagree with the notion that abolishing morse is a good idea. Keeping morse as a gateway to some additional priviledges is essential. The idea that merely making the tests harder will 'keep out undesirable people" is dreck. And the idea that element one was a 'Talent' test is also dreck.
Element one didnt prove talent....it proved DEDICATION! Only those dedicated to the goal of HF will do what it takes to master morse. If I wasn't interested in HF, I would have stopped at technician. I WANTED HF, so I mastered morse. I personally think that if we eliminate morse requirements totally, the hobby will suffer. Morse enthusiasts will always be out there. I don't doubt that morse will survive. BUT. We must keep a skill test in the licensing process. And CW is the CORE of all we do....it is by virtue of being the simplest type of radio to build. It works when all other modes fail.
I'm in the Navy, and am big on tradition. Is morse a tradition? Sure, in some respects. And I can tell you this....when an organization abandon traditions in favor of gee whiz high tech, the organization ALWAYS suffers. Dont get me wrong...I like high tech...echolink, psk31, pactor, amtor, IRLP etc etc etc....all nifty cool and neat. BUT. The thing that, in my mind at least, signifies a true master of the hobby is the guy that can bang out code.
KEEP THE CODE!
-.- .. ....- -... -... -.-

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W8FAX @ Aug. 28 2003,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can't believe that thing popped up again.............[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I can't believe we actually responded... again.

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4

Going QRT

[N8UZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AE6IP @ Aug. 28 2003,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can't make someone interested in something by forcing them to pass a test in it. If they weren't interested in the first place, then all you can do is make them resent it.

If the only thing keeping Morse alive were a test requirement, than we would hear no Morse on the air. People would study it well enough to pass the test and then never touch it again.

It is a good thing that there are plenty of reasons that people will stay with Morse code. Morse is a pleasure for many of us, and we who enjoy it will keep it alive, whether others are required to take a test or not.

73,

Marty AE6IP[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I've known several people who did not like the code when they first started learning it. However as they became able to use it they changed their minds. They freely admitted that they would not have studied it if they did not have to for the license. Later they were glad they had been required to learn this skill and it became one of their favorite operating modes.

How many great CW ops will we never see because they were not required to gain some minimal skill level at the beginning and thus never tackled it on their own?

I do believe that Morse will continue to flourish either way but we will end up missing some potentially great operators. I will do what I can to actively encourage people to explore this mode.

[ki4bbk]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mostly it's used as a hazing tool by older hams and makes people in my (younger) generation think that hams do nothing all day but send morse. No wonder us younger folk view our hobby as ancient. Every time I tell someone I'm a radio operator I get the ol' "Oh you mean you do that morse stuff..." Perceptions are everything....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAZING TOOL? WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT IS HE TALKING ABOUT?
As far as k5XORs TCP/IP test questions...and his experience as a 'network engineer'....I ain't a big fan of the internet crowd....mostly like CBers....about the only disciplined group is the hams....they at least usually understand how the internet works...and they can do morse TOO.

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KA2GWR @ Aug. 28 2003,20:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can't fly air transport ie TWA, Delta, etc. because I'm discrimated against due to failing vision requirements.

Can't ever be NFL or NBA player because I'm discriminated against due to NEVER being good enuf physically.

Can't ever being Nobel winning scientist because I'm not THAT smart.

And I'll never be on the cover of GQ because I'm...well you can figgure that out.

Life is full of filtering processes.
The reality is we are not entitled to everything we want.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BINGO!!!!!

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4

Ok...so I lied. So make me take my Element 1 test again.

[N8UZE]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0nar @ Aug. 28 2003,18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not going to open the door on if I approve/disapprove the dropping of the code. #What I dont like is the holier-than-thou attitudes from some hams.Like I am XX years old and can copy XX wpm. Dont forget the "if i can do it anyone can" phrase.Im glad you got your code skill down, however it is not as easy for all of us. #I am 28 and have been trying for 2 and a half years now, close but just cant quite get it. It just seems to me that if the "big guns" of HF are going to look down on us who are struggling, it really takes away a lot of the drive. # # # # # # # # # # # #73 KC0NAR # # #P.S. I will still get Element 1 passed....sometime.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The problems with learning code are almost always attributable to incorrect training methods. If you wish to email me, I would be happy to provide references and on-going advice as to how to learn the code, not only so that you can pass the test but so that it is a useful and fun skill.

No talent is required to achieve a useful level of ability. Talent is only required for someone who wants to try to set a world record.

It's like anything else. Barring accident or significant disability, all of us can walk (i.e. useful skill) but only a handful will be able to run a 4 minute mile or better (i.e. special ability).

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can't make someone interested in something by forcing them to pass a test in it. If they weren't interested in the first place, then all you can do is make them resent it.

If the only thing keeping Morse alive were a test requirement, than we would hear no Morse on the air. People would study it well enough to pass the test and then never touch it again.

It is a good thing that there are plenty of reasons that people will stay with Morse code. Morse is a pleasure for many of us, and we who enjoy it will keep it alive, whether others are required to take a test or not.

73,

Marty AE6IP[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Marty,

You're not listening. And I say that with utmost respect. The point of CW is NOT to make someone like it. It's to see if they are dedicated enough to put in the extra effort. If they are, then they're rewarded with HF priveliges. Simple! In fact, it's so simple, it's beautiful!

My mom used to force me to eat liver, spinach, broccoli and other undesirable foods. HER point was to make me like it, there was no reward for passing her test. Do I eat any of those foods today? Heck, do I even like the way they taste? You won't find them in my refrigerator.

Trust me, learning Morse is nothing like having to choke down the filter of another animal...

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4

[Simtechiii]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bbk @ Aug. 29 2003,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mostly it's used as a hazing tool by older hams and makes people in my (younger) generation think that hams do nothing all day but send morse. No wonder us younger folk view our hobby as ancient. Every time I tell someone I'm a radio operator I get the ol' "Oh you mean you do that morse stuff..." Perceptions are everything....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAZING TOOL? WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT IS HE TALKING ABOUT? #
As far as k5XORs TCP/IP test questions...and his experience as a 'network engineer'....I ain't a big fan of the internet crowd....mostly like CBers....about the only disciplined group is the hams....they at least usually understand how the internet works...and they can do morse TOO.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He has no idea what hazing is! Send him over this way - I've got some liver...

Let's stand him against the wall and throw dits and dahs at him. Hazing? He's dreaming.

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4

[k7xor]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Simtechiii @ Aug. 29 2003,07:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ki4bbk @ Aug. 29 2003,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mostly it's used as a hazing tool by older hams and makes people in my (younger) generation think that hams do nothing all day but send morse. No wonder us younger folk view our hobby as ancient. Every time I tell someone I'm a radio operator I get the ol' "Oh you mean you do that morse stuff..." Perceptions are everything....
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HAZING TOOL? WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT IS HE TALKING ABOUT? #
As far as k5XORs TCP/IP test questions...and his experience as a 'network engineer'....I ain't a big fan of the internet crowd....mostly like CBers....about the only disciplined group is the hams....they at least usually understand how the internet works...and they can do morse TOO.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He has no idea what hazing is! Send him over this way - I've got some liver...

Let's stand him against the wall and throw dits and dahs at him. Hazing? He's dreaming.

73,

Steven / KG6JEV/4[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you're following tradition for tradition's sake then you're hazing. Dictionary.com has one definition:

Hazing: "To harass by exacting unnecessary, disagreeable, or difficult work."

I've passed my code test at the very easy 5WPM and have never had a CW contact and don't intend to. I simply don't like the mode but that doesn't mean I don't mind if others use it. There are simply better ways to seek quality radio operators other than having them memorize *one* mode on the ham bands. At the rate this hobby is going everyone is going to be doing CW to their graves and taking Amateur Radio with it.

It doesn't really matter what arguments are made here anyway. The rest of the planet is doing away with CW as a requirement (thankfully) and the US will soon follow. I for one look forward to the new operators it will bring to the hobby.

[kd5cir]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 29 2003,06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,00http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 28 2003,20http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Today, to take the test, you go out and buy a book, you study the questions and answers, the SAME questions that are on the test, the test might as well be an OPEN BOOK test. There is no longer a requirement to know the subject [and this part is painfully true and very evident if you look at the dumb questions asked on some of the ham radio portals!].

Right now, the code is the only portion of the exam that proves you have knowledge of the subject. The answers to the Element 1 are not posted anywhere.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sure am glad this dude knows all the answers to all the questions us other guys might have since some of us are posting dumb questions on some of the ham portals. Another thing here, can someone call this guy a WAAAAAMbulance, he needs it. #<!--emo&<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

KD5CIR/8 -- you made my arguement... buddy, if the shoe fits, wear it![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The only thing I'm wearing right now, is a sweat from laughing my ass off from reading your web site. Not only do you cry here, you cry there also. It's no wonder why HAM's get such a bad rap from those that arent. Do you ever wonder why HAMs get such a bad rap, Robert??? It's because of HAMs like you, who "KNOW" that those who dont know code arent worth a damn, if you arent Extra Class you're not worth a damn, if you have ever talked on the CB band you're not worth a damn. Basically, you feel like your better than the rest of us when you're not. If you truly judge a fellow ham by the class of license they hold, you Sir, are below those of us that really dont give a damn if you're a Tech or Extra. I know plenty of ham's and they range from Tech's to Extra's, and when we get together for a club meeting or for Field Day, or for a cook out at one's home, everyone has the same interest, HAM RADIO. It isn't who hold's what class license, or who volunteer's for what, or who's been licensed longer, or what if we get people in the hobby that don't know code. Yes you're an Extra and that's great. It show's you have taken the time to sit down and push yourself to get to the top. I commend you for that. But since there are other's that aren't where you are, and there will be other's in the future that will not ever hold the same ticket you do, don't hold it against them. Instead of looking down on someone for not having the same ability as you, don't you think it would be better to befriend them and maybe share your experience's?? Ham Radio is a great thing to be involved in. I've met a lot of great people and have had the opportunity to help the community several times by being a HAM. #Maybe one day you will grasp the full concept. As for wearing the "SHOE", seems to me that you have two of them, ENJOY. 10-4?? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w6th]

K5XOR


QUOTE:
I for one look forward to the new operators it will bring to the hobby.
QUOTE:

# # # # # # #YUP, me also.

[w6th]

Have any noticed that the hams #you find on the ham bands today are the hams that got tired of reading QRZ.COM and the slander and garbage. They, those, that are on ham bands now have gotten back their life.

Those that are on QRZ.COM are trying to dumb down CW and chase away any new comers to ham radio, far, far away.

I wonder what it would be like to tune in on QRZ.COM and get a few words of wisdom. #Not likely.

# # # # # # # # # # # Just my $1.00's worth.

# # # # # # # # # # # How many have I just torched?

-------- ------------ ----------- ---------- ----

[m3stt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Simtechiii @ Aug. 29 2003,07:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (m3stt @ Aug. 29 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well siad that Lady, trust the testosterone to rear its ugly head and spoil a perfect discussion![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nobody forced her to make the statements she made. If she's going to make controversial statements, then she bloody well better expect the comments she receives. Do you sincerely believe that she made those comments expecting everyone to come in here and kiss her behind? Get real.

Oh yeah, I've got LOTS of testosterone, baby.

Steven / KG6JEV/4[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am 13 years old and not your baby. I also do not care for arrogant male sexists. You are the weakest link..........Goodbye! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N0ZB]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Morse is History
Morse is a wonderful part of radio's history. Let us honor it, with the respect it deserves, and no longer use it as a tool for oppression. [/b][/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
A tool for opression?! You gotta be kidding!

If 5wpm morse testing is the greatest degree of oppression anyone faces in their life, what a blessing!

Don't take me seriously however. I speak from a 100% homebrew, 100%CW HF perspective.

[K8YS]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,10http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD5CIR/8

grow up.

With your attitude, WHY would anyone want to brefriend you?

I am sure you might find someone out there in Brown County, but I seriously doubt it.

[kb9ax]

To KQ6XA

I think your post was purposely titled to invoke emotional responses and attract attention. It’s a shame that so many people seem to take the politicians method of finding a little truth and extrapolate it to infinity to attempt to prove their point. “Morse is History”, yep, along with SSB, RTTY and HF in general. I could go on and on, but I choose not to on this thread. Bear in mind I would welcome a new entry level license that would allow new hams to enjoy the many things HF communications still has to offer, even thought it has since been TOTALLY rendered obsolete and replaced by Satellite, Internet and other forms of communications for commercial use.

Many who are interested in Ham Radio as a HOBBY read this site. The mood our threads take sets the framework by witch they judge us. All those who post hear need to always keep this in mind. Usually, I only post when I can be helpful, but I made an exception in this case.

The Character of ham radio is what our testing needs to stress. I have made comments about this in other posts and I still believe this is what is missing in our current tests and publications. The problem with so many of the misinformed no-code posts is the way HISTORY is treated. It’s our history that contain the examples of our character. With so much lying as to what is obsolete and what isn’t its no wonder the new hams have a difficult time. The most important trait we are looking for in a new ham is responsibility. Responsibility to ensure his equipment is operating properly. Responsibility to act as required by regulation. Responsibility to treat others and their QSO’s with respect. Responsibility to respond in the event of an emergency. The responsibility to NOT misinform the less experienced. I am still very surprised that this post was allowed in the NEWS section of QRZ.com.

[ka5s]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KQ6XA @ Aug. 27 2003,16:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no longer use it as a tool for oppression.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh, why not? Why not just turn it around? It's Payback Time, you know. Everyone else does that; it would be manifestly unfair to exempt no-coders from enjoying victory. I am sure some form of ostracism can be devised for anyone heard using CW.

Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus! De Oppresso Library! Ad Astra per Aspirin!

And (favored of law enforcement) Glaciate Vacuuo! ("Freeze, Sucker!")

( grin )


Cortland

[w6th]

Bonnie, most do not think about the crossroads, but I do, so am going to send you a word of praise.

"A Praise for Bonnie".
For your devotion to ham radio.

Praise : Smooth as a baby's butt ! Finer than frog hair split 3 ways!

Sincerely, W6th

[w0aew]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (w6th @ Aug. 28 2003,18:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WA5OES
QUOTE:
Maybe the CW test could be replaced with a touch-typing test and the submission of a short essay that demonstrates the ability to produce evidence supported with logical argument.
UNQUOTE:

This is what it really means:
What does typing have to do with code, no brains. #What does logical argument have to do with electronic skills. #"This guy is a nut".
Could add this also:It is a hobby with skills, anyone can type.
"He is a double nut".

You sound like my old professor I had back in college. #Are you he as he was a nut.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I rest my case.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K2WH]

All you no-code types should all go to hell if the entrance exam (Code) is dropped. #

I see this ground swell of sentiment for the ones who cannot hack the code. #This "Only Fair" crap is going to make the HF frequencies sound like a CB band and all you whiners and sympathizers will have to live with it. #I have been told I am not "sensitive" to the feelings of others and they are probably correct. #I did not go for sensitivity training.

Code may be old and obsolete, but it is a standard that must be met.

BTW, I do not use code. #I say give the no-coders, 28.1-28.3 mhz and make CW the only allowed mode. #They get HF frequencies and will be forced to learn it to get other HF privledges. #Sounds like a good "sympathetic" deal to me.

K2WH

[N2YPH]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8TGU @ Aug. 28 2003,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But eliminate it from the exam? CW still has enormous importance. In emergencies, when conditions are outrageous, morse code can be the only mode that will get through.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Um, wrong.

PSK31 - It has narrower average bandwidth than Morse, AND it is more suitable to DSP processing for reception. PSK31 can get through in interference situations where Morse would not.

And please point me to a recent examle of an emergency situation where Morse was used.

9/11, one of the largest disasters in recent U.S. history? Nope. VHF/UHF NBFM and (possibly) packet were king.

The NYC blackout? - Same deal.

Routine SKYWARN operations??? - Guess what, VHF/UHF NBFM again.

Search and rescue operations? - V/U NBFM *again*, plus packet (specifically, APRS)

Morse is dead. It is no longer used in maritime situations, it is no longer used by the military, it is no longer used by any emergency organization, and it isn't even used by hams in emergencies. The only people who insist on clinging to this archaic and obsolete mode are hams.

I do agree that simply dropping Morse from the General and Extra exams is not a good solution. It should be replaced on the examinations, not eliminated. I agree that there should be an effort required to reap the rewards of a General or Extra license, but clinging to a long-dead method of communications in a manner that destroys the image of our hobby to the outside world is not the way to do so.

[kd5cir]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 29 2003,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,10<!--emo&:0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD5CIR/8

grow up.

With your attitude, WHY would anyone want to brefriend you?

I am sure you might find someone out there in Brown County, but I seriously doubt it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now come on Robert, dont get all mad here. If you can't take the heat, flip the switch, shut down your rigs and your pc. Just to show you what a nice guy I am, I'd like to invite you to our Hamfest, November 8, in Georgtown. Better yet, I'll even send you two tickets, paid for. Come on out, enjoy some good food, and meet some of the nicest hams you will ever meet. Have a nice weekend Robert. 73's

http://www.geocities.com/garcohio

[K2WH]

N2YPH:

"Morse is dead. #It is no longer used in maritime situations, it is no longer used by the military, it is no longer used by any emergency organization, and it isn't even used by hams in emergencies. #The only people who insist on clinging to this archaic and obsolete mode are hams."

Um, wrong.

Morse is not dead. #It is still in use in many parts of the world by many people of many different professions. #Hams are using it.

Sorry, but you are wrong. #And besides, if other services are not using it - so what! #Why does that mean we must also cease to use it. #What a stupid example. In your case, stupidity should be painful.

K2WH

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Aug. 29 2003,11:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All you no-code types should all go to hell if the entrance exam (Code) is dropped. #

I see this ground swell of sentiment for the ones who cannot hack the code. #This "Only Fair" crap is going to make the HF frequencies sound like a CB band and all you whiners and sympathizers will have to live with it.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And the same people who are pushing for an abolition of tests and a means to determine a person's qualifications (i.e., tests) will be the FIRST people to push for more rules and regulations when they are inconvenienced.

Just you watch - these no-code advocates will be fine and dandy with letting the hoards on HF until they are splattered by Cooter T. Buttnuts with his overdriven sweep tube linear 5KHz down. #Then it will be time for additional RULES AND REGULATIONS. #It sure would be easier to just simply not let them on at all. #

No-code advocates have no respect for being granted HF privileges because they have no personal investment in the gain - it's just another hand-out they got for free. #

Forget about pride:

Pride comes from achievement, never from charity.

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,12:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K8YS @ Aug. 29 2003,09:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kd5cir @ Aug. 28 2003,10<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KD5CIR/8

grow up.

With your attitude, WHY would anyone want to brefriend you?

I am sure you might find someone out there in Brown County, but I seriously doubt it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now come on Robert, dont get all mad here. If you can't take the heat, flip the switch, shut down your rigs and your pc. Just to show you what a nice guy I am, I'd like to invite you to our Hamfest, November 8, in Georgtown. Better yet, I'll even send you two tickets, paid for. Come on out, enjoy some good food, and meet some of the nicest hams you will ever meet. #Have a nice weekend Robert. 73's

http://www.geocities.com/garcohio[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
yea, send me TWO tickkets to the tiny little Georgetown hamfest. I'm in the book... www.qrz.com/k8ys

From your comments, I can only assume you want the same given to you that others have earned.

so, send the tickets.


and Joshie, get my name correct or you will anger me.

[KC2KFC]

This poor old horse. I didn't think you could beat it anymore. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[W8FAX]

Interesting earlier comment.....you can't hear Morse due to loss of hearing, but you want to get on HF. What will you listen to??? SSB..........sure.......

[K8YS]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N2YPH @ Aug. 28 2003,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC8TGU @ Aug. 28 2003,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But eliminate it from the exam? #CW still has enormous importance. #In emergencies, when conditions are outrageous, morse code can be the only mode that will get through.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Um, wrong.

PSK31 - It has narrower average bandwidth than Morse, AND it is more suitable to DSP processing for reception. #PSK31 can get through in interference situations where Morse would not.

And please point me to a recent examle of an emergency situation where Morse was used.

9/11, one of the largest disasters in recent U.S. history? #Nope. #VHF/UHF NBFM and (possibly) packet were king.

The NYC blackout? #- Same deal.

Routine SKYWARN operations??? - Guess what, VHF/UHF NBFM again.

Search and rescue operations? #- V/U NBFM *again*, plus packet (specifically, APRS)

Morse is dead. #It is no longer used in maritime situations, it is no longer used by the military, it is no longer used by any emergency organization, and it isn't even used by hams in emergencies. #The only people who insist on clinging to this archaic and obsolete mode are hams.

I do agree that simply dropping Morse from the General and Extra exams is not a good solution. #It should be replaced on the examinations, not eliminated. #I agree that there should be an effort required to reap the rewards of a General or Extra license, but clinging to a long-dead method of communications in a manner that destroys the image of our hobby to the outside world is not the way to do so.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
WRONG !!

Hurricane Iniki,
Typhoon Omar
Hurricane Mitch

Those three that I know of personally.

911 was a LOCAL disaster, SAR is LOCAL, tornado is LOCAL, NYC blackout LOCAL AGAIN.

PSK is cute, my favorite mode is PSK31... but I do not see PORTABLE OPERATIONS using PSK31.

I camp, I use PSK31, I need a laptop, HF rig, and antenna. For morse, you need HF rig and antenna -- NO LAPTOP (don't try to feed me Palm device crap, they have not evolved for the computing power required for PSK31).

So morse is obsolete, well, so is high school math.. why teach math, you can use a calculator. If morse is dead, why is there soo much morse traffic on HF between the ham bands?

[kc5jpz]

I support the elimination of the Telegraph exam. I also support the protection of the HF telegraph only bands. I would like to see the question pools made secret so people can not just memorize the questions and answers. Now here is the suprise for the telegraph fetish patients and grouchy telegraph addicts... I would have more incentive to learn the Continental Telegraph code if the requirement of a telegraph exam was eliminated. I have a 10 - meter band tranceiver (that has: telegraph, FM, AM, USB, and LSB capability) that I have not powered up for many months or years because I can not transmit on those frequencies. If my Technician Lite license allowed me to use all Novice HF frequencies then I would get an antenna and start listening to telegraph and other transmissions and I would take time to learn the continental code (not Morse) so I could start using telegraph to talk to other ARS telegraph operators on HF. If my 2 - meter rig had telegraph capability then I would have incentive to learn telegraph code now because the band 144.000 MHz to 144.100 MHz is a telegraph only band and I do have the license for that band. I want protection for the telegraph only bands on VHF and above.
My question is: Why are the bad operators on HF when we wimpering Technician Lites are on VHF, UHF, and above? I have heard a lot of "CB" type behaviour on ARS HF bands and I never hear that kind of garbage on VHF & UHF.
James Johnson
Arlington, Texas

[K2WH]

Bonny writes:

Test Knowledge Not Talent:

Sending and receiving morse is the only #talent test that has ever been required for hams. If we are to continue to fall into the trap of testing for talent, why not test the operator's talent with keyboarding at 40WPM? Or perhaps the talent of rapidly tuning a mobile antenna for low SWR? These talents are much more appropriate to today's amateur radio and emergency services needs. Amateur radio examinations should focus upon testing the applicant's knowledge about amateur radio.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. #Sorry. #You are seriously misinformed. #Morse code testing is not about talent, it is about a persons personality, dedication and desire to be a ham. #It has nothing to do with talent. #This is proven by the fact that anyone who takes the test for CW is not required to use it.

Reading your passages, I was immediately struck that this kind of drivel could only come from the west (left) coast. #Seriously, I did not note you were a "6" call prior to reading your posting. #Wasn't I pleasantly surprised at my knowledge of peoples writing styles and twisted thinking.

K2WH (From the Right Coast)

[K2WH]

She writes:

As a musically talented youngster at the age of 8, morse code was easy and fun for me.

Bonny,

As a musically talented yougster, I'm curious if any non-music oriented youngsters were allowed to play with you in a concert, duet or musical group? #Did you need to test them and if they failed, did you exclude them? #P.S. #what did you play?

And a last note, you entire posting sounds like a eulogy for the dead. Nice, but not convincing. I think you have been living in CA too long. Support ham radio, don't let it degenerate into a Gray Davis state. The last known state of liberal experimentation.

K2WH

[k7xor]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Aug. 29 2003,12:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">She writes:

As a musically talented youngster at the age of 8, morse code was easy and fun for me.

Bonny,

As a musically talented yougster, I'm curious if any non-music oriented youngsters were allowed to play with you in a concert, duet or musical group? #Did you need to test them and if they failed, did you exclude them? #P.S. #what did you play?

K2WH[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Of course being able to play an instrument well is required to be part of a successful band. Knowing how to do Morse well is not required to be a good operator. I guess that's the point of eliminating the code requirement. It's an anachronism and is no longer conducive to advancing the art of radio but is used to establish a caste mentality and pecking order among hams.

There has never been any evidence presented to recant the argument that Morse code knowledge makes someone a better operator -- Period. I've run into a far larger number of horrible HF operators than I ever have on the VHF bands (morse code or not). The morse code anecdotes of how it always comes through and saves the day when times are tough just doesn't hold water. If this were still in fact the case then the military and other mission critical applications would still be using the mode. It's time to move on.

[K2WH]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k5xor @ Aug. 28 2003,14:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K2WH @ Aug. 29 2003,12:49)</td></t