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K3UD
08-17-2003, 09:29 PM
Cape Girardeau, MO is listed as one of the test sites for BPL.

On Saturday, August 16, I made the trip to Cape Girardeau and spent about an hour in the BPL test area which is located between Lexington Avenue and Business route 55 in a subdivision along Rampart, Melrose, Carolina, Belleridge, Magnolia and Kurre streets. I also worked my way around other areas of the city to see if BPL interference showed up anywhere else. I did not find any, other than at the test site.

I used an Icom 737 and a Hustler antenna on a 2001Chevy Astro van, and had #the 75, 40, and 20 meter resonators available. I found and monitored interference on those bands. This was filmed with a borrowed 8mm camcorder and am sending the tape to Ed Hare, W1RFI, at the ARRL. The tape clearly shows S-meter readings of the interference reaching as high as 35 over S-9 and recorded the audio. prior to entering the test area,The Icom 737 was tuned to a net on 7.277 where all of the stations were good copy. I entered the test area at 12:35 PM CDT.

Here is a brief synopsis of what I saw and heard.

1. The main area of the interference was at the intersection of Melrose, Rampart, and Kurre avenue. Once there, the interference was easily recognizable.

2. The BPL interference emanating from the above mentioned intersection could be clearly heard at S-9 or better levels in excess of 500 feet and was still audible at over 1000 feet affecting reception on the other streets mentioned.

3. The interference had the same characteristics that showed up on W1RFI’s test, with one difference. It seemed that when I was stationary, the interference would go from 20+ over S-9 down to S-9 or less and then back up. It almost seemed like there was an "idle mode" and an "active mode".

4. Interference was the worst on 20 meters reaching 35 over
S-9 and the least on 75 meters where it reached about 5 over
S-9. My noise blanker which is great at taking out considerable ignition noise had no effect. A very active Geiger Counter is a good description of what the interference sounded like.

5. I saw only 2 inductive couplers on power poles. Both my wife and I were looking for them. I have them on the tape. Both were on poles at the above mentioned intersection.

6. It seemed that the interference hacked up the upper part of the AM broadcast band, however, there seemed to be a high level of power line noise all over the city, (at least what I took to be power line noise) and this could have been what I was hearing.

There was one odd effect. Cape Girardeau has an AM station at 1550 kHz and in the test area, I was getting images of the station all they was from 1710 down #to 1600 kHz and again at 1520 kHz. Since I did not know where the station was located, I suspected that I was quite close to it and getting overload. However, when I left the test area, the images faded in about 1/2 mile.

7. I think I heard effects in the lower part of the FM broadcast band. #I was receiving audio from a TV channel 6 transmitter at the low end, and it definitely had some kind of interference on it that could also be heard to some extent on clear channels up the band. Again this could be regular power line noise.

8. It also seemed that the test area was extremely limited in scope being confined to the streets mentioned above as interference levels dropped on adjacent streets in the subdivision. However, I was using a Hustler, which is not the most efficient mobile antenna. I suspect that anyone using typical HF antennas at a fixed location anywhere in the subdivision would have a serious interference problem.

This was not a series of scientific measurements and no claim is being made for such. Rather it was just me, an average ham operator making a field trip to a test site wanting to hear for myself what BPL interference sounded like and if it is a bad as it is made out to be. In my opinion, it is every bit as bad and I can see where it has the potential to change ham radio as we know it and turn HF into a wasteland wherever it is deployed.

73
George
K3UD

n3mvf
08-17-2003, 09:37 PM
George,

Applause on your efforts and time. Great to hear from "just an ordinary ham" confirming ARRL reports. If only some of the electric company execs would go out and listen to that trash! Thanks for your effort and description.

73
Greg

k3sam
08-18-2003, 03:37 AM
Am I missing something ?

As I read it, you were operating 100% mobile, right. #Most stations ( of concern ) will be fixed operating off of the AC power into either a built in power supply or a separate unit.

If you were getting your readings from the stray BPL using a pick-up antenna ( Hustler mobile ), I would hate to think of how HIGH it would actually be coming into the home and into the equipment !

Great Test, I hope that the ARRL and FCC will use the data you collected and it will not fall on deaf ears and closed eyes.

Sam

KD4LEI
08-18-2003, 05:24 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3sam @ Aug. 17 2003,20:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Am I missing something ?

As I read it, you were operating 100% mobile, right. Most stations ( of concern ) will be fixed operating off of the AC power into either a built in power supply or a separate unit.

If you were getting your readings from the stray BPL using a pick-up antenna ( Hustler mobile ), I would hate to think of how HIGH it would actually be coming into the home and into the equipment !

Great Test, I hope that the ARRL and FCC will use the data you collected and it will not fall on deaf ears and closed eyes.

Sam[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I do have a question...

Although I am by no means an electric/electronics guru, doesn't interference from powerlines without BPL anywhere as bad? I am just curious since I know what regular powerline interference does to the AM bands on 530 - 1710.

I have some big lines about 400 yards east of my QTH that may carry or will carry this type of load before long.

Man I really hope not...

kf4lne
08-18-2003, 05:30 AM
I wonder how some of those randomly placed spark gap transmitters the power company has will effect bpl. Around here when reporting a source of power line noise you dont give the pole number where the noise is coming from, you give the street name and in some of the smaller towns you just tell them the noise is coming from that town. Sometimes the line noise gets so bad it covers a 50 kW AM station 5 miles away. I was listening to coast to coast on a local 5 kw station until the wind blew and kicked up the noise again.

KD7WHQ
08-18-2003, 05:32 AM
As I said in another thread, it is highly likely the AM broadcast allocation will be affected as well.

And, they can't clean up their current RFI issues.

Yes, there is an &quot;idle mode.&quot;
Web browsing is not a full time usage; page loads, read, follow a link.
If you had happened on a node that a sizable file was being downloaded over, you would have heard a burst of considerable length.

Food for thought; consider that not every potential customer in the test areas are participating in these tests.

I'd welcome a real test.
Every computer user in a small town gets the equipment for free, with no bandwidth charges, on the condition they spend at least 4 hours a day online. And no limitations on time, excepting the duration of the test.

The 4 hour minimum could be satisfied by merely leaving the email client live.

Myself, I'd be downloading non-stop. Suck the bandwidth.
And I'd be measuring RFI myself while doing so. I'd even hook the landlady and her other half up, and have the GF on her machine. Full pipe.

Until this is done, the truth is still going to be only partially known.

But, I know, if just the people participating went to MP3.com, and started sucking the files down, you wouldn't be seeing S9 - S9 +25. S9 +40 would be more like it, and then the harmonics would likely start to show as well.
Think there are bandpass filters in that system?

Current levels are not as bad as it will be.

And, I'll happily stand up to prove it. C'mon PSE..

K3UD
08-18-2003, 01:15 PM
KD7WHQ

The idle and active modes were very different in amplitude and I had not read anything about this aspect of it. I wonder who is actually using the proper equipment to measure the effects, and as you say, the harmonics.

Does anyone know how many induction couplers would be needed to cover a 12 street subdivision? I only located two of them but could hear the interference to some extent on every street. The one very hot spot I found had &quot;wipe out&quot; interference out close to 500 feet. It is scary to think that maybe only one or two households were actually using the system for downloads and all the interference I heard came from those few users.

I understand that Manassas Virginia is going to have a very large trial of BPL covering 14,000 households sometime before the end of the year. This should answer the questions.

info at:
http://www.eham.net/articles/6227

73
George
K3UD

ka5s
08-18-2003, 09:47 PM
Nice work, George! I am putting a mobile rig back in my car (moved my stuff to an RV) and will be looking around the SF Bay area for suspicious noise per Ed's video. I do mean to have some QSO's -- in order to be able to file complaints of harmful interference.


Cortland

N1OL
08-18-2003, 10:48 PM
Thank you for taking the time for this field test.

Did you get the opportunity to transmit? Did the system show any signs of distress?

If the BPL system was affected, then I would expect a lot of activity after your transmission as it figured itself out.

As it is a part 15 installation that interfered with a licensed station will you be making a complaint to the FCC? The BPL lobbyists are always saying “No complaints”.

73s

David

W1RFI
08-20-2003, 12:35 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (k3sam @ Aug. 16 2003,21:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Great Test, I hope that the ARRL and FCC will use the data you collected and it will not fall on deaf ears and closed eyes.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
When it comes to the technical parts of BPL, these eyes are wide open all the time! :-)


73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI