Belgium & Germany Drop Morse Requirement

[KE4GKA]

ARRL reports that Belgium & Germany have now droped the Morse code requirement. Switzerland was the first country, then it was the UK that soon followed. Now Belgium and Germany become the latest to drop the requirement to pass a Morse code examination to obtain HF operating privileges....

ED KE4GKA
Fayetteville, NC

[K6UEY]

That is odd because Germany was one of those who fought to retain the morse code testing . http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[KG6JTB]

Now c'mon people- we American's can't have higher standards than our allies in Europe, can we?

It's just a matter of time, and it will happen here too.

Dave
KG6JTB

[KD5WBJ]

Atta way,
Don't learn the code,just keep waiting for it to be dropped.
Ya,know,it's already been dropped on HF.
Go on to 11 meters.
Mike

[ae4fa]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now c'mon people- we American's can't have higher standards than our allies in Europe, can we?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

We don't. Just take a look at the written tests that are required. You'll be down on your knees in an instant, thanking God we don't have such rigorous requirements here!

Isn't it strange, an American amateur radio operator stating to us what Country's around the world are doing with &quot;their CW requirements ?&quot;

There is an article on eHam pertaining to the FCC and NTIA, read it. Your going to wait 2 years or longer if the USA Morse is dropped. Government is this Country is slow to a crawl most often, I enjoy the crawl regarding the action on WRC-2003 at our FCC.

You do have a choice now, live in the Foreign Country of your choice, particularly one with no Morse.

That Morse code, isn't it just a bummer for you ?
Wait is the scenario, wait along time.

[K6UEY]

Follow the instructions in CFR Part 95 there is NO CODE testing required there . Some study is required, you must be able to legibly write your name in the english language. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K6UEY @ Aug. 15 2003,20:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Follow the instructions in CFR Part 95 there is NO CODE testing required there . Some study is required, you must be able to legibly write your name in the english language. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yawn... (in reference the repeated reference to part 95 being our countries no code)

You know what I find funny about cb no code posts (and there are quite a few on here) - I think these are posted in the notion that if code is removed as a requirement that all of the sudden the hf bands will become one big cb channel. However if you look over the fcc enforcement log you'll notice that the majority of rule violations are actually commited by people who took the time to study code...

A while ago (before 2003) a friend and I were debating this on irc, so I took the time to log all the violations in this year to present and I ran some reports in Excel - (I excluded repeater coordination letters, and letters to power companies of course) http://home.comcast.net/~cherry938/violations03.pdf I think its kind of funny actually. While it doesn't say anything useful per se - it doesn't suggest any trend that no-coders are necessarily better represented as rule violators as people who took the time to learn morse code are.

Any useful suggestions on how to remedy this?

[G1ZFS]

Gentlemen

I'm sorry some of you think dropping the code would be lowering the standards.

We have had many changes over here, we even have two classes of non cept licence, and it is the higher one of those, the intermediate, that ae4fa was reffering to in his post.

I was worried about the adverse effects this would have on ham radio, letting the uncouth onto the bands etc, it would be the end of good ham radio etc.

Well I can honestly say I was wrong.

Still none of the bands are full, and the new people with non cept licences are largely delightful to talk to, and conduct themselves on the bands equally as good as I can manage.

Have a listen on the hf bands to the english stations using M3 callsigns, they are the entry level jobbys, not recognised anywhere but here, see if you think they are lowering the standards.

As far as I know, it is the full licence jobbys here that cause most of the problems, just the same as in the states.

When all the dust has settled, and maybe even the states has dropped code, I hope to see some of the anti dropping people on here also being big enough to say they were wrong.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[G1ZFS]

Gentlemen

Just another thought, and I dont want to start big arguments, but your standards especially the technical requirements dont seem that high anyway.

It is only my opinion, (another dam limey hi), but wouldnt you be better teaching your new people how to conduct themselves on the bands, and avoid causing interference to others not in the hobby, rather than morse code.

They will see it as just another mode, and as the main reason for wanting hf is to dx, you may just see an increase in the amount of people wanting to learn code as the solar activity on the bands decreases, and they see its a jolly good way of punching through, and still getting that long distance contact.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[KD5WBJ]

Well,
Let me think about this a second,,,,,
Took less than a second-it just stands to reason that the enforcement letters you speak of should be about people who learned code cuz they are the only ones with access to HF.
Haw



Out
Mike

[G1ZFS]

Mike

That isnt true over here.

The foundation licence, no code requirement for this one was introduced here some 18 months ago, they have to have an appreciation of morse, using crib sheets,(cheat sheets in the states I think), with no speed involved.

The comment was also true of vhf, no code requirement at all, in either of our countrys.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[G1ZFS]

Should read countries, I'll have to learn to spell !!

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD5WBJ @ Aug. 16 2003,03:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well,
Let me think about this a second,,,,,
Took less than a second-it just stands to reason that the enforcement letters you speak of should be about people who learned code cuz they are the only ones with access to HF.
Haw
Mike[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Enforcement letters aren't just for users on hf - you'll notice a lot of rule violators were for lack of control over a repeater, malicous interference and foul language - lot of which were on repeaters and simplex vhf/uhf frequencies. Also a lot of people got in trouble for cheating on exams or frivolous use of the fcc license system - which has nothing to do with what band your on.

My point is that as far as the known rule violators (and there are plenty who never make the wall of shame) there is no real evidence to suggest that no-code techs are any more into violating fcc rules than people who took the time to learn morse code (general, advanced, extra)

[n7wsb]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZFS @ Aug. 16 2003,03:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That isnt true over here.

The foundation licence, no code requirement for this one was introduced here some 18 months ago, they have to have an appreciation of morse, using crib sheets,(cheat sheets in the states I think), with no speed involved.

The comment was also true of vhf, no code requirement at all, in either of our countrys.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Do you find that in the UK that there are more rule violators in the no-code or foundation license group than others? My guess is in the UK people have better things to do than to hang out on the radio all day messing with people.

In the US the code test is still 18 words per minute with 5 word per minute spacing. It does take some effort to learn the code (ie - you can't just memorize dih's and dah's). I don't think its hard, but at the same time I don't see why its necessary. Many hams learn it and then toss their keys (good evidence of this - on field day no-one could figure out how to adjust side tone on this one radio - it had never been used for code). At the local club there's only one guy who knows how to use code (other than me), but most everyone there is a general.

[G1ZFS]

n7wsb

I have to admit most of the &quot;bad&quot; stuff I hear in the uk is by full cept1 holders, the new boys make mistakes of course, but are not deliberately rude or offensive like the old timers.

I'm no exception, I remember chatting to a new foundation M3 on a vhf repeater here, he told me he was &quot;square wheeled&quot;, I expressed my sympathy and asked him if he wanted me to call a garage !

It was a quick bit of one upmanship, and got roars of approval from other cept licence holders, but I wish I hadnt now, what did I achieve?, made a new chap feel pretty silly instead of welcoming him to the hobby and encouraging him to want to climb the ladder.

Best wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[EI7JK]

Seeing as M3's are getting mentioned, how many of them do you think are sticking to their power restrictions http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I recall a QSO a few weeks ago with an M3 who openly admitted on the air that he was using 100w to establish the contact and that this was being done on a regular basis by him and others.

Now, how the hell the UK are supposed to enforce this power restriction is beyond me. While the Foundation Licence is a good idea, I think they should have though some more about how they were going to enforce the restrictions.

It has been my experience that the M3's in general appear to be good operators (with the exception of a few), compared with some of the more &quot;seasoned&quot; stations I have talked to in th UK.

I think some of you might want to take a look at our exam criteria and papers in EI, you might be surprised. When I did my exam way back, it was harder than the UK becuase we didn't have multiple choice questions to help jog our memories.

[ae4fa]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think some of you might want to take a look at our exam criteria and papers in EI, you might be surprised.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I think it would be quite revealing if folks in various countries would post the exam criteria the use.

I would love to see yours, Germany's, Belgium's, Switzerland's - - - any and all.

[G1ZFS]

EI7JK

You have a very tight system, we didnt always have multiple choice, but have now for over 20 years I guess.

I believe that you have/had a requirement for hf that would even please K7PIG.

I think after passing the morse, you had to only operate cw for a pre-determined period of time,or you could present &quot;X&quot; number of certified contacts, in a log, verified somehow, before you could use the other modes on hf.

Was/is this true, or am I just being spun a good one ?


And yes, of course the restrictions on M3 callsigns is unenforceable, but so is pirating generally, the odd one gets caught, but as long as they act responsibly and dont draw attention to themselves they get away with it.

There were a couple of 2E1 callsigns in my own home city that got the novice, then thought they would make up G4 callsigns and use hf.One of them had such a distinctive voice and poor cb operating procedure I'm not sure how he thought he would get away with it.When he was pulled up on air by a proper &quot;G&quot;, he even sent a solicitors letter threatening legal action for defamation.
Needless to say he doesnt transmit anymore !

On the subject of M3's, I have actualy been in ireland, using EI/G1ZFS as I should, and had an M3 answer me over your dublin repeater using EI/M3, he actually didnt know he wasnt allowed to operate in your country, and worse still your people were talking to him until I put the spanner in !!

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[ae4fa]

I would also be interested in the costs involved - not the study material, just the testing and licensing fees.

Over here, there is no licensing fee, and the testing costs vary from $10 to $12. Pretty much a bargain . . .

[G1ZFS]

ae4fa

When I taught it was voluntary, I wasnt allowed and didnt want to charge.

I think the materials, books the two kits etc cost them about £50 sterling, of course some of them needed to buy soldering irons, stands, a cheap mulitmeter etc.

I cant remember the cost of the exam, the novice is actually , or was actually a city &amp; guilds, but of a lower level than the full rae, and had to be taken at a college.

All this may have changed, it is now called the intermediate, and is now controlled by the rsgb, whom I dont have any time for.

The foundation is controlled entirely by the rsgb.

I dont have any time for them as they sold out the class &quot;B&quot;, ie me, by giving hf access to the foundation, but refusing to acknowledge we existed.

So if I had taught the foundation, at the end of my course, the candidates would have more access than I did.

That has now been rectified of course, some 18 months later, but by the ra (our fcc), not by the bigots in the rsgb.

If the costs are important to you, I will ask and reply on here.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[kd5icr]

Belgium &amp; Germany Drop Morse Requirement, Morse Requirement.



So What. Why should I care what they do over there.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif does this mean that....IF the amateur radio operators in Belgium &amp; Germany took their radios and threw them in the ocean / river that we here in the USA should do that...too ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[EI7JK]

G1FZS

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I believe that you have/had a requirement for hf that would even please K7PIG.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

There are some people that can never be pleased and come on ..... look at the callsign !!!

I believe of exam criteria would make a lot of US hams think twice about passing some of the comments they make here and on other forums. You just have to laugh at the ignorance of some of them.

Why post about something that they don't have a clue about, unless of course they just want to start another &quot;over the pond&quot; row on the forum.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think after passing the morse, you had to only operate cw for a pre-determined period of time,or you could present &quot;X&quot; number of certified contacts, in a log, verified somehow, before you could use the other modes on hf.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

When I passed the exam back in '85 (didn't take the cw test) you had to spend a year on cw only using 20m &amp; 40m as far as I can recall. That changed a few years back to having to confirm 250 (?) cw contacts or spending a year on cw.

Our cw criteria was changed last September, 4 days before I was due to take my 12wpm cw test it was changed to 5wpm, you can imagion the panic !!! Passed it anyway and enjoy using the mode.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On the subject of M3's, I have actualy been in ireland, using EI/G1ZFS as I should, and had an M3 answer me over your dublin repeater using EI/M3, he actually didnt know he wasnt allowed to operate in your country, and worse still your people were talking to him until I put the spanner in !!
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I have no understanding of the licence structure in the UK except for a very basic knowledge of the Foundation Licence. If you asked 10 EI's if they understand it, I doubt if 2 could put hand on heart and say they do.

Dave - EI7JK

[M1ACQ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ae4fa @ Aug. 17 2003,04:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would love to see yours, Germany's, Belgium's, Switzerland's - - - any and all.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AE4FA,

Here (http://www.ukradioamateur.org/a0-1-0.htm) is a link to the syllabus for the full RAE (Radio amateurs exam) that I took a few years ago. These days, you have to start with the foundation, progress to the intermediate and only then can you sit the full.

Hope this helps

Frank

[G1ZFS]

Frank

Well done mate, I had been trying to find something to send him on the full.

EI7JK, K7PIG is actually quite a nice bloke to exchange messages with on here, and on his own site, although I've not spoken to him on air yet.

I did however have a little smile at the callsign.

Best Wishes

Nigel G1ZFS

[kj3n]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (G1ZFS @ Aug. 16 2003,02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just another thought, and I dont want to start big arguments, but your standards especially the technical requirements dont seem that high anyway.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Nigel,

You'll get no argument from me about the standards over here. Personally, I find some the the written exams here in the States to be utterly lacking in any real substance.

When I took my commercial tests (radiotelephone), there wasn't any study material that contained the exact questions and answers. There were study guides published my Ameco and a few others that gave you a good idea of what things you should know, but never the exact Q &amp; A.

I much prefer the system you have over there. At least you blokes actually have to attend classes in electronics. I am continually amazed at the lack of technical knowledge in today's ham.

I recently got a call from an Advanced class guy who could not tell me what a BNC or PL-259 was. Now, here's a guy who went through all the old &quot;hoops&quot;, got his 13 WPM, and DOESN'T KNOW WHAT A BNC OR PL-259 IS!? Where do they get these guys?

I'll take your system over ours any day.

[m3stt]

As yet no responce to the RAE syllabus yet. Seems to have zipped up a few. Not that easy is it?

[AE6IP]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (m3stt @ Aug. 28 2003,15:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As yet no responce to the RAE syllabus yet. Seems to have zipped up a few. Not that easy is it?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
took a look at it just now, upon reading your remark. Nice practical basic electronics stuff. Harder than the US tests, easier than the final in a good undergraduate first year course. good job.