ARRL, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY [Archive]

N5CTI

08-11-2003, 05:43 PM

I'm sure some folks hate to let facts interfere with their beliefs, but I really think y'all are missing the boat on this one. On the purpose of the Citizen Corps:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From the Citizen Corps web site (http://www.citizencorps.gov):
Citizen Corps, a vital component of USA Freedom Corps, was created to help coordinate volunteer activities that will make our communities safer, stronger, and better prepared to respond to any emergency situation. It provides opportunities for people to participate in a range of measures to make their families, their homes, and their communities safer from the threats of crime, terrorism, and disasters of all kinds.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And here's the most pertinent text from the agreement between DHS and the ARRL:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From the Statement of Affiliation (http://www.remote.arrl.org/FandES/field/mou/) between DHS and the ARRL:
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the American Radio Relay League (ARRL) view community disaster preparedness and response as top priorities for their respective organizations and for the American people. As such, our organizations have come together to provide mutual support for Citizen Corps.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...and the (relatively) specific points of agreement:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Together DHS and the ARRL agree to work collaboratively to:

- Raise public awareness about the use of Amateru Radio as a public safety resource;
- Provide training and accreditation for Amateur Radio Emergency Communications;
- Promote the formation of local Citizen Corps Councils and assist these Councils with providing public education, training and volunteer service opportunities that support first responders, disaster relief organizations, and community safety efforts;
- Publicly acknowledge the affiliation of Citizen Corps and the ARRL, which may include website links, co-logos on publications, and references in printed materials, including articles and news releases;
- Coordinate their respective activities to further their shared mission; and
- Keep each other informed of activities conducted in support of Citizen Corps and to provide an annual report summarizing those activities.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
This affiliation between DHS and the ARRL is focused on disaster preparedness and response, not "spy on your neighbor." Of course, if you're already a conspiracy theorist, no argument will sway you.

"That's not the moon, that's the Arizona desert!"

08-11-2003, 07:24 PM

I agree with the ARRL and DHS, it prepares us for the unfortunate happening.
True story from Arizona.
Saw a Forest Fire, back in 1977, got out my 2 meter rig, tuned to the local repeater and asked if this fire had been reported. Who are you? I just gave my callsign and I can see this blaze, would you like some help? No, get out of here.I just replied with a wonderful rudeness.
Now it's 2003, haven't been a club member since 1977.
The in-crowd knows how to handle everything, so, why should I butt in and ask if they need any assistance.

WA2ZDY

08-11-2003, 07:55 PM

You are so right Wally. It's politics and money at the local level. You'll find such groups are more insular the more money is available, as reflected in the fanciness of the local emergency radio room. Or mobile van. (That's the BIG fun money!)

I've participated in emergencies in the past. Some of them pretty serious. But I'm not one of the "in-crowd" and thus have always been kept at arms' length. Some communities around here have some pretty darn fancy "emergency radio rooms" and or mobile vans. I recall the town where I grew up spent $600,000 !!!!!!!!!! (that's right, six hundred thousand) on a mobile emergency motor home! Filled it with the very latest and greatest ham gear (at the time, this was in the mid 80s.) You can bet "full" membership in THAT ARES/RACES group was quite limited!

It's all about the money. Those with their fingers in the pot don't want to share. That's a shame too, as there are some very dedicated folks in AND out of these groups.

Politics . . .

08-11-2003, 08:56 PM

Kind of like the MARS System use to be years ago.
Members put in their bids for equipment AND it's nowhere to be found, leaves, disappears over the years, yet, a member is in control of the used inventory, just amazing.
Politically Correct I'am sure, just a handle full will take care of everything, all in time.
3 folks in this Rinky-Dink Graveyard Gulch Town have spoken with me on 2 meters SIMPLEX. Well, the secret simplex frequencies have hit this SORRY Gulch. Hush-Hush now on these secret frequencies. Sad but true.

ae4fa

08-11-2003, 10:51 PM

As most of you know, I have significant criticisms of the ARRL. And, you know I've been a member during most of the years I've been active in amateur radio.

This particular action by ARRL was a very good one for this reason:

It raises awareness among those who might otherwise be willing to see our frequencies go elsewhere of our value when the stuff hits the fan.

If for no other reason, ARRL is to be congratulated for getting this agreement!

n6yg

08-11-2003, 11:24 PM

You had a very good argument Until you said
“if you're already a conspiracy theorist, no argument will sway you.”

I have learned one thing from what happened in the USSR and Germany and that is watch out for people that try and discredit other peoples fears and suspicions #by labeling them with derogatory and belittling Terms #

What exactly is a “conspiracy theorist”

W9LQI

08-12-2003, 03:56 AM

My two cents worth are as follows:

1. An agreement with Dept of Home Land Security is a good thing. It's just getting started and we have an opportunity to make a contribution. Help make it go the right direction.

2. If the status quo has you locked out, start your own club. Get listed and you become the in group.

In my judgement, we need more activism. I'm in MARS, don't get any goodies (like the good old days) but that's okay, it's a small contribution that doesn't take all that much time. Besides, they have some great antenna ideas classes once in a while. As for the goodies, 40 years ago, it was a bunch of strange stuff that I'm not sure had much practical use on the ham bands, but lots of wire if you wanted. I wasn't a member back then, just a skinny kid working his way through highschool.

I'm glad Dept of Home Land Security thinks we are an important ally to have on board.

Vy 73's
Hutch
W9LQI/6

KD7WHQ

08-12-2003, 06:03 AM

May well be a good thing.
But there is something about this "homeland security" bit that bugs me no end..

W1RFI

08-12-2003, 10:17 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Aug. 11 2003,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But there is something about this "homeland security" bit that bugs me no end..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I bet it bugs Osama, too. . .

73,
Ed, W1RFI

ka1kjz

08-12-2003, 12:24 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Aug. 11 2003,23:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But there is something about this "homeland security" bit that bugs me no end..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The coulda picked a better name, like "Internal Security" or "Anti-terrorism Taskforce" or something along those lines.

Homeland sounds too close to "Das Fatherland"

ka1kjz

08-12-2003, 12:30 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 11 2003,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What exactly is a “conspiracy theorist”[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you don't know, there's a good chance you arent one.

A conspiracy theorist is a sufferer of paranoid schitzophrenia. #They see "gubbamint" plots in everything. #The CIA killed JFK, Flouride in the water is a gubbamint drugging campaign, cell phone towers are for mind control, jet contrails are actually cloud seeding, and the list goes on and on.

Watch a few episodes of The X-Files and the Mel Gibson movie "Conspiracy Theory", they are good primers and still able to be good entertainment.

N5CTI

08-12-2003, 02:58 PM

Blaze, let me expound a bit on my meaning, so you can better understand my intent.

Ron KA1KJZ hit my meaning for "conspiracy theorist" on the head. My further intent was to say that an awful lot of people, including conspiracy theorists, make up their minds first, before they learn much about the topic or event at hand. They decide what they want to believe, rather than try to gather information with an open mind. As a result, they espouse beliefs that have little if any basis in fact, and additional facts are rejected so they can continue to hold on to those beliefs.

I didn't intend to insult or belittle anyone here. I can see how my prior posts could have done so, and I apologize for offending anyone who felt insulted or belittled. OTOH, anyone who takes this closed-minded approach, conspiracy theorists and other "ignorers of fact," can justifiably feel as though I'm insulting and belittling them. I don't have much patience for that type of attitude.

n6yg

08-12-2003, 05:58 PM

Facts?? As I see it facts are the issue. Some people’s facts are other people’s fiction.
And there in lies the problem. It appears that too many blindly patriotic individuals accept entirely too much fiction as fact. (Read) “Weapons of mass deception” unfortunately I fell for that one too. The result ? I now consider every word to come out of Washington a lie until otherwise proven true.

When I first heard about ARRL and Citizen, Corp. I was reminded of an old proverb that goes something like “he who lies down with dogs shall get fleas”.

“Quote”
Is this "citizen corps" the same government group that has asked US citizens to essentially spy on one another? If it is, is it in the best interest of ham radio to work along side such an organization? Will we be spying on each other? Reporting LIDS who sound like terrorists? Have we hoodwinked outselves into becoming involved in national politics?

More importantly
Will we be spying on each other? Reporting LIDS who sound like terrorists

As I see it we have already been trained to do just that. In fact its just the next logical extension to “ Americas Most wanted” I’m waiting for them to setup a hot line to report neighbors that are acting suspicious”

n6yg

08-12-2003, 06:54 PM

Before I get flamed to badly
For those of you that read my previous post
Let me explain why I have taken this particular Stand.

Last week I was surrounded by no less then 5 sheriffs units and Pulled from my Blazer at gun point “Felony stop” A suspicious person report “possible terrorist activity ??” What was I doing that was so terrorist like? I was sitting in my Blazer at a county park listening to 20 meters the only unusual part of this activity was that I had a Buddipole “a Type of Dipole antenna” up about 15 feet on a painter’s pole that was mounted to my rear bumper. I guess that combined with the other three antennas on my roof an ATAS-100,#440 Whip and a 144 whip. Apparently made me look like a terrorist, Maybe I should sell the blazer and get a Black suburban with tinted windows http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Now I have been officially warned that this activity warrants suspicion.??? #Yup nothing like sitting in Handcuffs for 45 min watching the local Yahoos rip through my vehicle, desperately Looking for anything to justify there unreasonable actions. All the while at least 30 spectators watch and wonder what episode of Americas most wanted I was on. #What an ignorant bunch. I watched as they pushed buttons, spun the dial continually keying the Ft-100 #at full power yelling hello and testing #trying to see if the radios worked on the police bands. I even warned to be careful as they could cause interference and that they where not properly trained or Licensed on using that equipment. There response was to point to his badge and say This is my I FU$#K^%ING license AS#$H$L http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Well I finally managed to convince them that it would be better if they keyed there radios instead of mine. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif #Anytime I inquired about anything #I was just told to shut up. Well they confiscated all my equipment. Including an FT-100, Icom 2800,VX-5R, MFJ Analyzer. #Sony laptop (Used for Slow scan and APRS) And of course the now mangled http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #buddipole

Update::: #
Well it’s been a week and I have called everyday inquiring as to when they are going to release my Gear. All I have been told so far is that if it turns out to be legal. I wont have any problem getting it back“ Yeah But in what condition”

The best part is no one ever took or copied down my call sign “even when it was offered”

When exactly is it considered unreasonable search and seizure. Well apparently if terrorist activity is suspected “THEN NEVER“ they can do as they please ! “ So when is it exactly that we consider it to be living in a police state”

Please excuse me if I seem a bit upset but look at it from my point of view. I am looking at having to possibly replace thousands of dollars worth of gear because ONE (1) person was Ignorant and scared
and the rest of the country signed away there rights because they wanted security.. # # #

By the way I just realized the Buddipole is being advertised right on top of the QRZ page..
Great Antenna !!!!! to bad they mangled mine trying to take it apart #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

08-13-2003, 02:19 AM

Sometimes it takes an experience like blaze had to enlighten people. A lot of people here in Arizona have been severely hassled for carrying an unconcealed handgun, which is perfectly legal. And it seems that cops can violate your rights and they never get prosecuted or reprimanded... That's not the "American Way" that I believe in... but maybe I'm wrong.

And this new policy of attacking other countries if you think they might be getting ready to attack us first, is totally unacceptable to me. If I did that to a neighbor, it would be murder. That policy, like all of the Bush bulls*#t, the no-knock raids from his father, no search warrents, holding people without charges (screw the constitution) are an obvious sign that this country is heading in a very dangerous direction.

So, if it doesn't happen to you (yet), you look the other way. Just remember, when it DOES happen to you, everyone else will do the same !

My point about the Homeland Defense thing is just that this new agency is merely an attempt to show that something is being done (ie a political show) and really has no need, or merit.

We already have the CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, Customs, Border Patrol, Justice Dept., BATF, Coastguard, State Police, County Police, City Police, Rangers, private security guards, military intelligence, and about 100 more...

Meanwhile, we still have no wall on the Mexican border and millions of illegals are walking in every day, etc etc.

OK, I have to stop, or I could write you a book...

Let's hear the replies !

Jean

W1RFI

08-13-2003, 10:19 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 11 2003,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last week I was surrounded by no less then 5 sheriffs units and Pulled from my Blazer at gun point “Felony stop” A suspicious person report “possible terrorist activity ??” What was I doing that was so terrorist like? I was sitting in my Blazer at a county park listening to 20 meters the only unusual part of this activity was that I had a Buddipole “a Type of Dipole antenna” up about 15 feet on a painter’s pole that was mounted to my rear bumper. I guess that combined with the other three antennas on my roof an ATAS-100,#440 Whip and a 144 whip. Apparently made me look like a terrorist.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ever notice that this sort of thing always happens to the guys who post here anonymously, and never to those that post with their call signs or real names?

Do you think that this incident might have gone better if you had a copy of the MOU that shows that Amateur Radio is part of homeland security, not a threat to it?

I have had officers question my mobile activities a few times, and a polite explanation was all that was ever needed. Some were honestly curious and interested. The worst that ever happened was an admonition not to pull off the interstate because it wastes cops' time to think that I am a disabled motorist. He was right.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI

ka1kjz

08-13-2003, 12:13 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Aug. 13 2003,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ever notice that this sort of thing always happens to the guys who post here anonymously, and never to those that post with their call signs or real names?

Do you think that this incident might have gone better if you had a copy of the MOU that shows that Amateur Radio is part of homeland security, not a threat to it?

I have had officers question my mobile activities a few times, and a polite explanation was all that was ever needed. #Some were honestly curious and interested. #The worst that ever happened was an admonition not to pull off the interstate because it wastes cops' time to think that I am a disabled motorist. #He was right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And have you ever noticed these incidents are "reported" on relatively insignificant internet chat boards? #Something as earth shattering as this should be splattered all over the first page of every paper in the country, ARRLWeb should have a special report on it, it would be the subject of a RAIN report.

Instead its posted to an obscure QRZ.com thread, many many postings after the author's original, as if it were an afterthought.

I have NEVER heard of this first hand, its always "the brother of the cousin of the guy who knows the girl who dates the guy who fixes my copier"

Every time I have been stopped or questioned by the police, it always ends in a long chat about everything from radios to dogs. One particular time, the cop ran my plate and found a Ronald C. Barnes was wanted for murder, she didnt even have me get out of the car, she checked my license (driving kind), thought about it a few and found the facts didnt add up.

N5CTI

08-13-2003, 02:47 PM

Yup, just someone who wants an argument. As I said in my last post, worthy of my contempt. When presented with facts (quotes from the DHS-ARRL agreement), just deny that they're facts, and start spinning your own fabrications (a fancy word we never used when I was growing up; back in the Texas of my childhood, they were called "lies").

Ptui!

ka1kjz

08-13-2003, 06:11 PM

Pull up a chair boys and girls, lets look at this point by point...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last week I was surrounded by no less then 5 sheriffs units and Pulled from my Blazer at gun point “Felony stop” A suspicious person report “possible terrorist activity ??” [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Which county of which state?? #A simple phone call can confirm or deny this report.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What was I doing that was so terrorist like? I was sitting in my Blazer at a county park listening to 20 meters the only unusual part of this activity was that I had a Buddipole “a Type of Dipole antenna” up about 15 feet on a painter’s pole that was mounted to my rear bumper. I guess that combined with the other three antennas on my roof an ATAS-100,#440 Whip and a 144 whip. Apparently made me look like a terrorist, Maybe I should sell the blazer and get a Black suburban with tinted windows :D[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Perhaps the caller was concerned about public safety with fifteen feet of painters pole swaying without a breeze.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now I have been officially warned that this activity warrants suspicion.???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did they give you this in writing? #Do you have a memorandum, opinion and order from your county judge? #How is this "official"?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yup nothing like sitting in Handcuffs for 45 min watching the local Yahoos rip through my vehicle, desperately Looking for anything to justify there unreasonable actions. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What did you do to warrant being cuffed? #Usually a guy sitting in a public park doesnt get cuffed, did you get beligerant with the sherrif? #Did you tell him "I'm a federally licensed radio operator and you have no jurisdiction here!! #Now go have another donut!"?? #Hmmm, this oughta be good.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All the while at least 30 spectators watch and wonder what episode of Americas most wanted I was on.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Poor control of the scene, I doubt 5 units would allow that, one, maybe

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What an ignorant bunch.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
AHA!! There it is...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I watched as they pushed buttons, spun the dial continually keying the Ft-100 #at full power yelling hello and testing #trying to see if the radios worked on the police bands. I even warned to be careful as they could cause interference and that they where not properly trained or Licensed on using that equipment.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And another no-no... #repeat after me, cooperation, C-O-O-P-E-R-A-T-E... you never ever never tell a cop he can't do something, he does not answer to you (thats kinda the whole point of a police force).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There response was to point to his badge and say This is my I FU$#K^%ING license AS#$H$L :angry:[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Gee... I wonder why he acted this way, perhaps it was the preceding paragraph?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well I finally managed to convince them that it would be better if they keyed there radios instead of mine. ???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmmm, somehow I doubt that too, I think they let you go to go change your undies

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anytime I inquired about anything #I was just told to shut up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I dont think you "inquired" about anything, I think you were beligerant, foul and disrespectful, you get what you give.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well they confiscated all my equipment. Including an FT-100, Icom 2800,VX-5R, MFJ Analyzer. #Sony laptop (Used for Slow scan and APRS) And of course the now mangled :0 #buddipole[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Neglected to mention how the buddipole got mangled in the first place. #They only give a hard time if they GET a hard time.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Update::: #
Well it’s been a week and I have called everyday inquiring as to when they are going to release my Gear. All I have been told so far is that if it turns out to be legal. I wont have any problem getting it back“ Yeah But in what condition”[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Again, you get what you give... they will do you no special favors in its return.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The best part is no one ever took or copied down my call sign “even when it was offered”[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That and $1 gets them a cup of coffee? #They dont want or even care if you have a callsign. #

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 12 2003,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When exactly is it considered unreasonable search and seizure. Well apparently if terrorist activity is suspected “THEN NEVER“ they can do as they please ! “ So when is it exactly that we consider it to be living in a police state”
Please excuse me if I seem a bit upset but look at it from my point of view. I am looking at having to possibly replace thousands of dollars worth of gear because ONE (1) person was Ignorant and scared
and the rest of the country signed away there rights because they wanted security..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Have you contacted a lawyer? #Have you called the ACLU? Afraid what may happen if this undergoes any sort of scrutiny? #You only get help if you help yourself, rather than whining on an internet chat board, make a couple of calls to the above people.

ai4ep

08-13-2003, 06:55 PM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif these days it is better to play it safe....my rig in the vehicle is a simple UNMODIFIED 2 meter fm radio, along with an UNMODIFIED or AMPLIFIED cb rig ( uniden 510 xl, about the simpliest cb you can get...no ssb no 10 meters no upper/lower cb channels, etc )... if I want to listen to the fire dept / police / etc I take a hand held programmable old style uniden bc - 55 ( no cell coverage )... and lay it in the seat... then if the cops stop me, I can t talk on their channels ( accidently or on purpose )... My cb has no amplifier to talk further... my 2 meter mobile is programmed ONLY with 2 meter repeater frequencies in it... you have to cover your self these days... you have to keep your self above being a suspect, so the cops will look for what they are really looking for and NOT waste their time with you, there by making it possible for the POLICE to do their job more effectively, and you to do what ever it is you are doing ( back & forth to work, to wallet-mart, etc )...sure the antennas on top of the vehicle cause suspicion, but that cant be helped. IF you arent doing any thing wrong, then all is fine...but if you are driving around with MODIFIED rigs ( for what ever self - righteous reason YOU think you have ) then at the wrong place and at the wrong time you will recieve more negative attention than you could ever want.

n6yg

08-13-2003, 08:22 PM

This is such a typical response. Don’t like what you hear !!!
Then #do your best to discredit the individual, It works every time Slander the persons Character. And there account of the incident will be discredited

Example
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">“I think you were beligerant, foul and disrespectful, you get what you give.”[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was far from belligerent. Being retired from the force with over 28 years service I am quite practiced at defusing hot an hostile situations I am quite aware of how to deal with officers as I spent the better part of my life dealing with them on a daily bases. Unfortunately the new bread of COP is a disgrace to the force. During my last years with the force I witnessed what is #to be the beginning of the tragic down fall in the quality of law enforcement in this country “This isn’t Mayberry anymore” #the majority of new cadets and therefore new COP on the street are nothing more then criminals. Criminals that aren’t any good at being criminals. It appears that they have followed the motto “if you can’t beat them then Join them”. And that’s exactly what we have. Our Law enforcement agencies are being over run by a bunch of thieving criminals. All dressed in uniforms, badges and carrying guns and #Every last one of them believing that they are above the LAW !!! As far as they are concerned they are Judge Jury and executioner all rolled into one !!! To them a Collar is like a Prize. It’s a #Trophy that must be attained at any cost. Weather that cost is your Civil Liberties #Or your Life it makes little difference to them. Wait and see, what I say, I say from experience and time will prove me correct. # #

Before anyone one asks NO !! #I never informed them that I was a retired COP. If being a black man makes no difference then being a retired COP shouldn’t either?? #

I am tired of thinking about this now and I hate typing. I have a lot more to add, and will !

n6yg

08-13-2003, 08:40 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IF you arent doing any thing wrong, then all is fine...but if you are driving around with MODIFIED rigs ( for what ever self - righteous reason YOU think you have ) then at the wrong place and at the wrong time you will recieve more negative attention than you could ever want. [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agreed with most of your posts. But keep in mind that local law enforcement has no Jurisdiction with regard to FCC rules and regulations. Except for possibly Part 95 Citizens Band of which I am not sure. I heard rumor that the FCC was looking at granting local Law enforcement Jurisdiction that included CB.. I have to Question the rationality behind this and am not sure it has come to pass

Although I believe that the above is correct I’m not an attorney and am not offering any Legal advice. I can not be held responsible for damages relating to the above statment. You should contact proper council with questions relating to this topic . Sorry just a small disclaimer #

n6yg

08-13-2003, 09:39 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have you contacted a lawyer?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Well the one question the Yahoos never managed to get an answer too was “where is the camera that belongs in this case ? & where is the item that #was mounted here?”. I’m surprised they had enough intellect to know that a camera belonged in that cameras case, The removable mount was easy enough though.. Well the truth of the mater was that I was not alone in that Blazer.. A very old and exceptionally good friend of mine was with me. An extra Class operator from way back. He was the person that heard the call first !!! #He was listening to the bearcat trucking scanner and said Hey I think they are talking about us ?? My first reaction was Hmm. Since I am considerably more experienced at deciphering the Jabbering of dispatchers then he is I reached over and turned up the volume. Did I mention my hearing is not quite what it used to be!! Anyhow after a few seconds I realized that they where diverting & dispatching quite a few units to this call.. My Friend whom Ill refer to as Carl Washington (not his real name) or CW for short. Fortunate for me CW is much faster at grasping certain things then I am. #CW after hearing me say “Wow they sure are sending a lot of cars this way” Was allready thinking ahead. While I was still trying to determine why so many units where headed this way CW was headed out the door with the scanner in one hand and the video camera in the other mumbling something like #“this might turn out to be an interesting show” Next thing I knew he disappeared into the park..
Did I happen to mention that CW is a RETIRED DISTRICT ATTORNEY…
I true honest to goodness Ivy league Attorney .. Well on second thought Honest & Goodness probably should never be used in the same sentence as Attorney # # # # But he is an Attorney none the less

Shezzz all this rambling on without answering your question I must be getting senile in my old age. #To answer your Question Yup I done got me a lawyer, a good one to

n6yg

08-13-2003, 09:45 PM

I forgot to ask

Can anyone smell Bacon Frying?

All I can say is by the time CW is done with this there is going to be quite a few more unemployed private security guards in the work force

KD7WHQ

08-14-2003, 12:11 AM

There have always been those in uniform who wanted more to control, than enforce.
I believe the number is growing. And the so-called (anti-consitutional) patriot act isn't helping any.

The three kinds of cops you need to be wary of; the pissed off (pull over didn't play out), the bored, and the one with his own agenda, as mentioned above.
The second is becoming more common, as there are more on the streets now than were, and there is only so much "business" to go around, but the third is gaining.

I suspect Blaze1024 (got a call?) might agree..

ka1kjz

08-14-2003, 11:49 AM

After about 2 pages of rambling rhetoric, answering every tangent but.......

WHAT COUNTY OF WHAT STATE?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif\

One phone call, thats all it takes, and I'll report it to be true or false.

KG4RUL

08-14-2003, 01:47 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka1kjz @ Aug. 14 2003,03:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After about 2 pages of rambling rhetoric, answering every tangent but.......

WHAT COUNTY OF WHAT STATE?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif\

One phone call, thats all it takes, and I'll report it to be true or false.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK BLAZE!

Put up or shut up! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

ka1kjz

08-15-2003, 07:10 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KG4RUL @ Aug. 14 2003,06:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka1kjz @ Aug. 14 2003,03:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After about 2 pages of rambling rhetoric, answering every tangent but.......

WHAT COUNTY OF WHAT STATE????

One phone call, thats all it takes, and I'll report it to be true or false.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK BLAZE!

Put up or shut up! # ???[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmmmmmm, thought so.

n6yg

08-15-2003, 08:48 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> OK BLAZE!

Put up or shut up! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Ron I may be retired but I still have access to the LEADS and NCIC. “Easy Boy Keep this friendly”

I do have a life and don’t spend every minute of my day on QRZ. Besides QRZ was not available last night
It obvious that you are not as smart as you would like people to believe.

Even if felt obligated to provide you direct number to the detective in charge you know just as well as I do, that unless you carry significant authority #no one in the department #could comment on an ongoing investigation. Especially now that the department involved discovered my background. Apparently Between the video and my background in I.A.D. they are extremely concerned about bad publicity # Just another case of a Bunch of White COPS harassing a Black Man.. But this time the Black man is playing it Smart.. #I’m not about to give up my Ace. Making to much #information available could severely compromise our negotiating power. At this point the Department Involved is extremely concerned about negative publicity. And I hold in my hand the power to severely embarrass the entire Department.(Once again) Exactly why would give that away.

Nice try though!!!

You weren’t a Cop at one time where you Ron I was, my Job was “Frying Bacon” I.A.D Style how about you, Ever seen what happens to a dirty cop on the inside ??
73

n6yg

08-15-2003, 10:04 PM

To all #that have PM me Thanks very much for the support. I agree !!!!
too many people on this board have been asking for my Call Sign ( Most likely Cops wanting to pay me a visit in the wee hours of the morning) so as you can see I understand your need to be anonymous supporting me in this incident.

“By the way forgot to mention Clear Channel in your list” #

to the rest
Unfortunately our Ham radio service is being over run by the Wanabee Cops you know the type give me a badge and some authority type. The ones that want to look important walking around with a badge and an HT Its obvious who they are on this list. and its obvious why thay are trying to discredit me

It amazes me that so few Hams supported me and so many where willing to blame this incident on something I did. I was a Cop for over 28 years the last 10 assigned to I.A.D. I put #Quite a few hardened filthy murdering criminals away. All of them Cops. I became a COP because I hate corruption. And even more #I despise self righteous COPS

While i was assigned to I.A.D I watched a lot of dirty cops walk there crimes ranged from Murder, Drug dealing Rape, some where even pedophiles. # They walked because the system is full of corruption. well this incident provided the perfect opportunity for me to CASH IN on there Racist Attitude while helping eliminate more of that never ending line of pound scum they call a Police Force

Update Just in from CW
Just two days After viewing the tape they have offered a Substantial Cash Settlement. #We are holding out for the resignation of three of the Officers involved.. At this point I think they would do almost anything to keep this tape and story from going public including using heavy handed tactics ...

73

kc0kvu

08-16-2003, 12:05 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 15 2003,17:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Update Just in from CW
Just two days After viewing the tape they have offered a Substantial Cash Settlement. #[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
...but before receiving the settlement, he must provide his bank account number to the Nigerians so they can "hold" $14million in his account. But not to worry, he will receive $2million for his troubles. Honest....

n6yg

08-16-2003, 12:12 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...but before receiving the settlement, he must provide his bank account number to the Nigerians so they can "hold" $14million in his account. #But not to worry, he will receive $2million for his troubles. #Honest.... [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ka1kjz

08-16-2003, 04:56 AM

YAWN.... #too many episodes of Law and Order I think...

One other question, why didn't you ask for professional courtesy?

I am not a cop, but am a member of the media. #So once again... WHAT COUNTY OF WHAT STATE??? #I dont want your name, callsign, date of birth, SS#, I could care less who you are or whether you are the Grand Poobah of the Loyal Order of Water Buffalo or Not.

(PS: Notice how each post gets more and more self aggrandizing?)

KD4LEI

08-16-2003, 05:11 AM

Blaze, I am a military law enforcement officer and the fact that you fail to state the location this happened in, brings up a lot of questions. Had there been a trial over this, to prove this happened the defense attorney would have had a hayday with you and the prosecutor scrambling.

You might very well be telling the truth, but by not providing the basics in proving the facts starts to bring up questions. Those questions are about the credibility of what happened. You say it did, but how do we know that? If you fail to give better facts without being afraid that someone is out to get you, then the 'incident' in our eyes in alleged and we begin to wonder IF in fact this ever did happen. Do you follow the point a couple of folks here have made in their argument?

Being paranoid about not giving any more info is absolutely silly. However a word to the wise... If you think it's such a big deal that you must defend yourself on QRZ.com, then you should have not taken up your time posting what happened. You have spent more than enough server space trying to defend yourself about this. You could have saved yourself the trouble from raising your own blood pressure over something that is so petty being posted here. Obviously you're insistant that it happened, but again there are questions and you aren't providing anything that would help us to take your word for it.

If it's true, then does e-mailing someone you might trust on here to be more specific help? Trust must be a big risk for you and obviously a risk of this minute magnitude is just too big to take.

n6yg

08-16-2003, 10:35 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Had there been a trial over this, to prove this happened the defense attorney would have had a hayday with you and the prosecutor scrambling.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> #
Trial?? #A trial is not what anyone wants. its all about a bunch of cops looking like Racist Pigs. “Like that has never happened before” As far as credibility our credibility is very high.
#1 witness and camera man is a Retired DA not a Retired ADA But DA with a distinguished career. Then #there is me a Retired Cop with over 28 years Seniority. Their attorneys don’t even want to touch this,and the big brass just wants it to go away. # #

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Being paranoid about not giving any more info is absolutely silly [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
O- Brother #are simple concepts really this hard to grasp.. Publicity over the Incident is our biggest bargaining chip.
I stand to acquire a nice cash settlement simply because they don’t want bad publicity There’s nothing they could ever say to justify their response and actions. This forum allows me the anonymity to vent without worrying #about #jeopardizing the case the more argumentative & confrontational it becomes the more anger I get to release so see you are helping me and don’t even realize it

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You say it did, but how do we know that? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Again ask me if I care. Make of it what you will. Read my posts if you dont beleve them then thats your choice. if you chose to beleve me then make use of the info and and do your best to avoid having the same happen to you
73

n6yg

08-16-2003, 10:41 PM

ka1kjz
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One other question, why didn't you ask for professional courtesy?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

#1 because I am not required too.
#2 because I want people to treat me with respect because I treat them with respect not because I carried a badge
#3 because I was curious how far they where going to go.

Do you really think they would have responded to a couple of white guys the same way?
Could it be you don’t believe me because I am black ?? My whole life I have had to ask these questions I’m sure its not something you know much about. I’ve seen your picture. I know they say you can’t judge a book by its cover. But I disagree, I say more often then not if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck then most likely it’s a DAM Duck...

SO.......

When I see an old Pickup with a confederate flag and a Gun Rack in the window I already know what to expect but I still treat them with respect!!WHY Because I could be wrong!! the question is?? Has working for the media slanted your view on reality so much that you don’t.

AE6IP

08-16-2003, 11:17 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Aug. 12 2003,03:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD7WHQ @ Aug. 11 2003,00http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But there is something about this "homeland security" bit that bugs me no end..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I bet it bugs Osama, too. . .

73,
Ed, W1RFI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
World events tend to suggest otherwise.

AE6IP

08-16-2003, 11:29 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W1RFI @ Aug. 13 2003,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 11 2003,12:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last week I was surrounded by no less then 5 sheriffs units and Pulled from my Blazer at gun point “Felony stop” A suspicious person report “possible terrorist activity ??” What was I doing that was so terrorist like? I was sitting in my Blazer at a county park listening to 20 meters the only unusual part of this activity was that I had a Buddipole “a Type of Dipole antenna” up about 15 feet on a painter’s pole that was mounted to my rear bumper. I guess that combined with the other three antennas on my roof an ATAS-100,#440 Whip and a 144 whip. Apparently made me look like a terrorist.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ever notice that this sort of thing always happens to the guys who post here anonymously, and never to those that post with their call signs or real names?

Do you think that this incident might have gone better if you had a copy of the MOU that shows that Amateur Radio is part of homeland security, not a threat to it?

I have had officers question my mobile activities a few times, and a polite explanation was all that was ever needed. #Some were honestly curious and interested. #The worst that ever happened was an admonition not to pull off the interstate because it wastes cops' time to think that I am a disabled motorist. #He was right.

73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
No, I hadn't noticed that. In fact, the first such story I saw was from someone using their callsign, describing what the NYstate police had done to them.

Wanna hear some stories about what happened to friends of mine who were, in effect, busted for being too dark, because they'd set up for field day in a public park, at a picnic site they had a permit to use?

Do not kid yourself into believing that the experience that middle class white males has with the police in this country is at all typical of that had by anyone who looks at all "suspicious" (read "dark") -- we've just had two rookie cops beat up a black professional man, basically because they didn't like where he'd stopped to eat his lunch.

One of my other hobbies is geocaching. Two of my friends, on separate evenings, have been stopped by the cops near an urban cache. The one with the asian ancestors got hauled in to the police station for doing exactly the same thing that the other one provided a polite explanation for. And the first is one of the most reserved and polite people I know.

You, and we all, should be very frightened at the erosion of civil rights that is being palmed off under the ruberic of "homeland security."

n6yg

08-17-2003, 12:06 AM

Well ka1kjz you never answered my question !!

Is it because I am black that you don’t believe me http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

n6yg

08-17-2003, 12:38 AM

During a #traffic stop # How many middle aged, middle class white hams, do you think have been asked to show receipts for #HAM gear in there vehicle. Well if you are a black man then you are expected to carry receipts around with you all the time.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">busted for being too dark, because they'd set up for field day in a public park, at a picnic site they had a permit to use?
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah Been there.. Went to the park #with my family. including #My wife & our 3 Grown Boys there wives and 8 grand children. My daughter and her husband and new born that’s 19 of us. Well guess it was to much for the middle class white folk because we were there just long enough for the Kingsford to start to glow and the Cops showed up and said we would have to leave. I explained that we are havening a Family Picnic. The Officers became belligerent and took a very. hash tone !! #They where doing there very best to be intimidating while saying “Boy Where not going to have a problem with you now are we!!!” (F$#@ing classic)#For the sake of not having my grandchildren traumatized I made an exception and flashed my ID while saying Not unless you want a problem. #Of course it does not help when you are 6’7" 270 My boys have about the same build

73

KD4LEI

08-17-2003, 04:41 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 16 2003,15:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">O- Brother are simple concepts really this hard to grasp.. Publicity over the Incident is our biggest bargaining chip.
I stand to acquire a nice cash settlement simply because they don’t want bad publicity There’s nothing they could ever say to justify their response and actions. This forum allows me the anonymity to vent without worrying about jeopardizing the case the more argumentative & confrontational it becomes the more anger I get to release so see you are helping me and don’t even realize it

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You say it did, but how do we know that? [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Again ask me if I care. Make of it what you will. Read my posts if you dont beleve them then thats your choice. if you chose to beleve me then make use of the info and and do your best to avoid having the same happen to you
73[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
<SIGH>

Blaze before I begin again I want to make absolutely sure you clearly understand I am nto attacking you or trying to make this a flame fest here. About the trial thing it was figuratively speaking... Don't take it literally please.

Okay, now moving along to my expanded point;

If you had also gone back and reread my quote that if you are so bent out of shape not to give any further info, then WHY did you even bring it up in the FIRST PLACE?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif You could have saved yourself so much anger and anguish. I can pretty much bet you have also been getting hot under that t-shirt color of yours trying to defend yourself of what you said happened.

You stated also that you have better ways to spend with your time, but you also spent nearly half of this topic and whatever time you in fact DID have telling us your side of what happened.

I think the bottom line is that IF this did in fact happen and you just cannot say anything more, then you should have waited to speak up until the settlement was over, and this whole thing was done. Especially before coming on here and to the point now of where this topic and thread is at. Would have been the smartest thing to do.

If I read correctly you stated you were in Law Enforcement for nearly 30 years and then retired out of it. Thing I find odd is the fact that someone (like you) who had been in long enough in this profession, would have been wise enough not even to bring it up until the time was right and this mess was behind you. All kinds of legal parameters and they didn't want bad publicity? OR was it the fact that this topic came up and you felt you needed to say something about it.

Oh I don't know, bad timing?

Can't post any more info, don't waste your time posting it... It's really as simple as that Blaze. Had you stated what state and locality it was, then this would have been the first step in points for the home team. Before I close, I am taking this from your response earlier;

O- Brother are simple concepts really this hard to grasp..

Not posting it in the first place knowing you would have gotten this kind of flack, is the simplest of ALL concepts.

Have a good one sir!
73
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

n6yg

08-17-2003, 06:21 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OR was it the fact that this topic came up and you felt you needed to say something about it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

At this point I cant remember why I even brought it up, I really don’t want to go back and re-read the original posts. I’m not mad or even upset. I’m merely frustrated at the destructive mentality that is permeating our society like a virus.

At this point We have gone way off topic. so lets just end it here no hard feelings
73’s http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

KD4LEI

08-18-2003, 02:13 AM

Agreed!

BTW... had that been me that checked up on you as a patrolman, it would have been some standard NCIC checks and been on my way. Had I also seen your amateur radio license too, I would have said, "just making sure things were okay and be safe" before departing the area.

I also don't think of race as an issue when I conduct stops, checks, or whatnot. It's IF there is something wrong, then proceed further. That cops intuition...

I too am through beating this issue to pieces as well, have a good one!

73
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ka5s

08-18-2003, 03:02 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ Aug. 15 2003,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Blaze, I am a military law enforcement officer and the fact that you fail to state the location this happened in, brings up a lot of questions. # Had there been a trial over this, to prove this happened the defense attorney would have had a hayday with you and the prosecutor scrambling.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
March 1st, 2003, (corrected in edit) I was sitting in my car at Travis AFB, in the Base Exchange parking lot, checked into a MARS digital net. #Someone thought this a suspicious occurence and I ended up answering the questions of M-16-armed USAF and US Army Military Police. Magazines inserted, weapons held ready to use.

I am a retired servcemember. I had been shopping, and had my ID, Amateur license, and MARS certificate too. The car was registered on base. It had Ham Radio plates.

It took about an hour and a half before they decided to let me leave -- and I was told that in the future I would have to to call the base Office of Special Investigation before going back. I haven't been back. Don't intend to go. #

I learned some things I should have remembered from active duty. There's no radio operation authorized, not even (especiaily not another service's) MARS, from a military base without getting written permission first. Everyone without permission is required to stop transmitting on entering a base. This applies to Amateur Radio, cordless telephones, CB's, the FRS radios we might buy at the Exchange and (arguably) cellular telephones. Everything. #

Good thing I didn't call my cellphone an encrypted digital microwave link.

In any case, merely listening would not have made a difference; my roof full of antennas scared somebody. They called the cops.

I lucked out. One of the Reserve MP's remembered MARS stations from '91 and I had the operations order for the exercise with me. #Aside from not being able to run my plates -- they entered the data wrong -- they didn't find me doing anything else wrong. #I was not abused, was treated politely at all times, and did not go out of my way to make their job hard, either. It was obvious to me they did not know what they had on their hands. They let me go. And I later I got straightened out on MARS operating in public places by THAT chain of command.

I am not inclined to doubt Blaze's story out of hand. I WOULD be interested to see it elsewhere.

Cortland

KD4LEI

08-18-2003, 05:09 AM

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ka5s @ Aug. 17 2003,20http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ Aug. 15 2003,22:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Blaze, I am a military law enforcement officer and the fact that you fail to state the location this happened in, brings up a lot of questions. Had there been a trial over this, to prove this happened the defense attorney would have had a hayday with you and the prosecutor scrambling.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
March 1st, 2003, (corrected in edit) I was sitting in my car at Travis AFB, in the Base Exchange parking lot, checked into a MARS digital net. Someone thought this a suspicious occurence and I ended up answering the questions of M-16-armed USAF and US Army Military Police. Magazines inserted, weapons held ready to use.

I am a retired servcemember. I had been shopping, and had my ID, Amateur license, and MARS certificate too. The car was registered on base. It had Ham Radio plates.

It took about an hour and a half before they decided to let me leave -- and I was told that in the future I would have to to call the base Office of Special Investigation before going back. I haven't been back. Don't intend to go.

I learned some things I should have remembered from active duty. There's no radio operation authorized, not even (especiaily not another service's) MARS, from a military base without getting written permission first. Everyone without permission is required to stop transmitting on entering a base. This applies to Amateur Radio, cordless telephones, CB's, the FRS radios we might buy at the Exchange and (arguably) cellular telephones. Everything.

Good thing I didn't call my cellphone an encrypted digital microwave link.

In any case, merely listening would not have made a difference; my roof full of antennas scared somebody. They called the cops.

I lucked out. One of the Reserve MP's remembered MARS stations from '91 and I had the operations order for the exercise with me. Aside from not being able to run my plates -- they entered the data wrong -- they didn't find me doing anything else wrong. I was not abused, was treated politely at all times, and did not go out of my way to make their job hard, either. It was obvious to me they did not know what they had on their hands. They let me go. And I later I got straightened out on MARS operating in public places by THAT chain of command.

I am not inclined to doubt Blaze's story out of hand. I WOULD be interested to see it elsewhere.

Cortland[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, on a military base and especially near the BX (probably populated at a busy time of day) may have not been the best place. However, it might have been much worse had you been parked near a flightline restricted area where aircraft are sitting (such as at Travis with KC-10's and C-5's).

You might have had been better off contacting base comm and the LE desk at least a week out to coordinate (in writing) what you planned to do. Especially so in saving you a lot of grief from base Security Forces.

If you plan to go back there sometime in the future or now on any military base, you might want to contact base legal and OSI on how to get yourself off any watch lists. IF in fact they did this after you left. They didn't give you notice of a barment letter in person or via mail did they?

The military in general has guidelines that folks like me have to strictly abide by or face a meeting with the unit and group commanders (anywhere from an O-4 to O-6 ). Not my cup of tea when they're highly ticked and you have some explaining to do. This way things like with how they conducted business with you is how it should have been done. Although I cannot vouch for them entering your info wrong. All depends on how experienced the desk sergeant is with NCIC.

Chad

kc0kvu

08-18-2003, 06:37 AM

So, Chad, what you're saying is that I shouldn't pull up to the gates at Offutt and fire up the leanyer with a buddy pole mounted on the roof? #Would it help if I donned a Yaesu mesh-hat and flashed my ARES badge at the guard?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

n6yg

08-18-2003, 07:29 AM

Wholly Crap !!! I fold !!!!

M-16 pointed at head = dirty shorts

The incident I was involved in never came to that !!!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> March 1st, 2003, (corrected in edit) I was sitting in my car at Travis AFB, in the Base Exchange parking lot, checked into a MARS digital net. Someone thought this a suspicious occurence and I ended up answering the questions of M-16-armed USAF and US Army Military Police. Magazines inserted, weapons held ready to use.

I am a retired servcemember. I had been shopping, and had my ID, Amateur license, and MARS certificate too. The car was registered on base. It had Ham Radio plates.

It took about an hour and a half before they decided to let me leave -- and I was told that in the future I would have to to call the base Office of Special Investigation before going back. I haven't been back. Don't intend to go.

I learned some things I should have remembered from active duty. There's no radio operation authorized, not even (especiaily not another service's) MARS, from a military base without getting written permission first. Everyone without permission is required to stop transmitting on entering a base. This applies to Amateur Radio, cordless telephones, CB's, the FRS radios we might buy at the Exchange and (arguably) cellular telephones. Everything.

Good thing I didn't call my cellphone an encrypted digital microwave link.

In any case, merely listening would not have made a difference; my roof full of antennas scared somebody. They called the cops.

I lucked out. One of the Reserve MP's remembered MARS stations from '91 and I had the operations order for the exercise with me. Aside from not being able to run my plates -- they entered the data wrong -- they didn't find me doing anything else wrong. I was not abused, was treated politely at all times, and did not go out of my way to make their job hard, either. It was obvious to me they did not know what they had on their hands. They let me go. And I later I got straightened out on MARS operating in public places by THAT chain of command.

I am not inclined to doubt Blaze's story out of hand. I WOULD be interested to see it elsewhere.

Cortland [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

KD4LEI

08-18-2003, 08:06 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 18 2003,00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wholly Crap !!! I fold !!!!

M-16 pointed at head = dirty shorts

The incident I was involved in never came to that !!!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> March 1st, 2003, (corrected in edit) I was sitting in my car at Travis AFB, in the Base Exchange parking lot, checked into a MARS digital net. Someone thought this a suspicious occurence and I ended up answering the questions of M-16-armed USAF and US Army Military Police. Magazines inserted, weapons held ready to use.

I am a retired servcemember. I had been shopping, and had my ID, Amateur license, and MARS certificate too. The car was registered on base. It had Ham Radio plates.

It took about an hour and a half before they decided to let me leave -- and I was told that in the future I would have to to call the base Office of Special Investigation before going back. I haven't been back. Don't intend to go.

I learned some things I should have remembered from active duty. There's no radio operation authorized, not even (especiaily not another service's) MARS, from a military base without getting written permission first. Everyone without permission is required to stop transmitting on entering a base. This applies to Amateur Radio, cordless telephones, CB's, the FRS radios we might buy at the Exchange and (arguably) cellular telephones. Everything.

Good thing I didn't call my cellphone an encrypted digital microwave link.

In any case, merely listening would not have made a difference; my roof full of antennas scared somebody. They called the cops.

I lucked out. One of the Reserve MP's remembered MARS stations from '91 and I had the operations order for the exercise with me. Aside from not being able to run my plates -- they entered the data wrong -- they didn't find me doing anything else wrong. I was not abused, was treated politely at all times, and did not go out of my way to make their job hard, either. It was obvious to me they did not know what they had on their hands. They let me go. And I later I got straightened out on MARS operating in public places by THAT chain of command.

I am not inclined to doubt Blaze's story out of hand. I WOULD be interested to see it elsewhere.

Cortland [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Blaze,

He didn't say they pointed the rifles at him.. He said armed m-16 Security Forces officers with weapons ready. You may see it differently on the civilian side, but I know what he was talking about. Nowhere did it state pointed, just at the ready. Let me fill you in since this is part of my job as an AF SF member as well. Not just LE, but also aircraft security too and we have to carry rifles when it comes to those assets..

They may have been at port arms. Port arms is one hand (overhand) on the butt of the weapon, while the other was on the handguard (supported underhand). They may have also had the hands griping the pistol grip of the rifle, but that's as far as it is allowed to go. That finger should have been also away from the trigger area too. It's like having a pistol holstered, but hand on the pistol grip and not out of the holster. The muzzle is pointed in the air away from anyone. This is the standard procedure that we MUST follow even something as "suspicious" as this guy stated.

Unless he has displayed an visible intent to cause harm to someone at that point, those guys pointing weapons at him is by no means authorized. I am pretty sure it didn't happen or otherwise he would have said it.

I hope this may have cleared up any confusion.

KD4LEI

08-18-2003, 08:14 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0kvu @ Aug. 17 2003,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, Chad, what you're saying is that I shouldn't pull up to the gates at Offutt and fire up the leanyer with a buddy pole mounted on the roof? Would it help if I donned a Yaesu mesh-hat and flashed my ARES badge at the guard?

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
As far as Offutt, I don't think they give much thought since there is an amateur radio club associated with STRATCOM. I don't think Offutt care's as long as you're not anywhere near anything such as the aircraft area's or STRATCOM itself.

I know I have heard military (on duty or retired) amateur's on the radio mobile while on base though.

I just think each base might be a little different. Maybe he might need to precoordinate though to save some heartache.

I knew where you were going with this though http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

BTW... You coming down for the airshow this next weekend? I should be working then.

kc0kvu

08-18-2003, 09:05 AM

Well, I'm a huge fan of flight, which should make Bellevue my second home this weekend. #However, my hours here at work are 7pm-7am Fri, Sat and Sun and, as you know, the airshow runs 9-5 which is my time to catch some Z's. #I'd love to stay up late/get up early, however with crowds far exceeding 100,000 each day, showing up early is a MUST and I don't think it'll work out this weekend. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #Too bad the show doesn't have night exercises cause I might be able to see it from up the river here at Gallup. #I hate to pass up an eyeball QSO, especially considering the chances of three active posters on QRZ being from greater Omaha, but it will have to happen some other time.

I would hope that there was an ARC associated with STRATCOM, since ssb has somewhat of a coming-of-age associated with Offutt. #However I must confess I didn't know there actually was an ARC! hehe

On the upside though, we get a mini-airshow several times a week at home from the RC-135's flying overhead near Chalco.

ka5s

08-18-2003, 12:59 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KD4LEI @ Aug. 17 2003,22<!--emo&http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">should have been done. #Although I cannot vouch for them entering your info wrong. #All depends on how experienced the desk sergeant is with NCIC.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, they needed to know about California Ham plates; when they looked for KA5S as a personalized plate, it came back unknown. Whoops! At the time I didn't think to tell them it was an Amateur Radio plate, not personalized. But you can see their dilemma. And at Travis the flight line is not that far from the BX. #No, they didn't bar me - no reason to, really. #

Did you know a DK3 Screwdriver antenna is about the size and shape (minus whip) as an SA-7? If you were easily scared, maybe that would scare you enough to call the cops. (I'd said hi to the maker, Don, W6AAQ, at the BX that day, as it happens.)

I plan on taking a long trip soon by RV -- and making use of military recreation facilities as I can. I'll find out then if I am on a watch list!

At Fort Gordon, Georgia, in the 1970's, the president of the Fort's radio club, a LTC, wanted to see if we could set up at the PX for the Section Emergency Test, take message traffic home for soldeirs and publicize Ham Radio and ourselves in that way. So he called to get permission. When he said we wanted to hold a demonstration at the Exchange... hah!

Cheers,

Cortland

ka5s

08-18-2003, 01:12 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaze1024 @ Aug. 18 2003,00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">M-16 pointed at head = dirty shorts

The incident I was involved in never came to that !!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Neither did mine; As Chad said, they were ready to use their weapons if needed. #But they have to be ready. No problem. #I take it for granted a _civilian_ cop making a stop is ready. I've heard enough "one at gunpoint" on the scanner to expect it. No sweat.

Cortland

KD4LEI

08-18-2003, 01:52 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0kvu @ Aug. 18 2003,02:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, I'm a huge fan of flight, which should make Bellevue my second home this weekend. However, my hours here at work are 7pm-7am Fri, Sat and Sun and, as you know, the airshow runs 9-5 which is my time to catch some Z's. I'd love to stay up late/get up early, however with crowds far exceeding 100,000 each day, showing up early is a MUST and I don't think it'll work out this weekend. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif Too bad the show doesn't have night exercises cause I might be able to see it from up the river here at Gallup. I hate to pass up an eyeball QSO, especially considering the chances of three active posters on QRZ being from greater Omaha, but it will have to happen some other time.

I would hope that there was an ARC associated with STRATCOM, since ssb has somewhat of a coming-of-age associated with Offutt. However I must confess I didn't know there actually was an ARC! hehe

On the upside though, we get a mini-airshow several times a week at home from the RC-135's flying overhead near Chalco.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well, maybe sometime in the coming years you can take a trip if you get some time off or your schedule changes.

I wouldn't mind sometime making some other face to face qso's with folks here in the Omaha area that are on qrz.