02-03-2001, 07:23 AM
aa7bq (aa7bq@qrz.com) writes
The Ebay Factor
Oh the things that find their way into the QRZ editor's mailbox. Some
of them might amaze you, some maybe not. Lately, there's been a few
complaints regarding policy on our very popular
Online Swapmeet (http://www.qrz.com/forum/) and ads
for Ebay auctions.
This article will address those complaints and shed some
light on my own buying and selling philosophy.
The basic question is this: Should sellers be allowed to post ads on
the QRZ.COM swapmeet that point the user to an active online auction
being held at the Ebay (http://www.ebay.com) website?
Some people really get peeved about these kinds of ads. They
see it as an advertisement for a sale taking place somewhere else.
I don't know why this bothers them because it doesn't bother me at all. Anyway,
one irate reader wrote in to tell us that "It's as if [the seller]
was saying Please be a sucker and come over to Ebay where you
can help run up the price... These types of sellers should be
banned...".
Suckers??? Now hold on a minute!
I've bought and sold a lot of stuff off of Ebay and I scarcely
consider myself a sucker. Let's examine this idea.
Suppose that a local ham, let's call him Joe, is looking for a
Collins 312-B4 to complete his S-Line station. After several weeks of
looking around and asking, he can't seem to find one. Then, as luck
would have it, one pops up on the QRZ Online Swapmeet. As Joe reads
the article he notices that the item is being offered at auction on
Ebay. So, I wonder: does this make Joe mad?[/b] I don't think
so. I'd have to bet that Joe was pleased to finally find what he
was looking for.
Next, Joe wonders, "How much should I bid for the unit?". After asking
some friends, he's heard that they usually sell for between $300 and
$400. The current bid is $225 and there's 6 hours left to go in the
auction.
Our complainant alleged that being on Ebay runs up prices. Do you
agree with him? Why? On any given day there is a market price for
anything. Whether you feel that the market price is high or low
depends on your individual perspective. Generally, if it's more
money than you have, then it's too high. Never mind that hundreds
of units are sold every day at the same high price to hams all
over the country.
Within the United States,
there are few regional or geographic differences anymore. In other
words, it's fair to say that an average TS-440 sells for about $400 on
the east coast, just as it does in Tennesses or on the west coast.
We're in pretty much of a homogeneous economy in this respect.
Back to the 312-B4. The Ebay seller, Mike, wants to off the the unit
because he's got two of them and doesn't need them both. Mike bought
them both at a government surplus auction for $125 apiece and suspects
that they are probably worth a little bit more than that but he's not
really sure. Not being an expert on Collins collecting, Mike really
doesn't have a clue as to what the units might be worth.
In order to maximize his opportunity (and profit), Mike has a couple of
choices. He can spend some time on an exhaustive research of the price
or, he can take it directly to the market where it will automatically
[i]float to the current market price. With any luck, Mike
believes he might make a small profit.
Choosing to go this route, Mike places the item up for auction on Ebay,
with an opening bid of $100. By the time Joe gets there, the bid is up
to $225 and Joe jumps on it with a $250 bid. Fortunately for Joe, he
wins the auction with that bid and now he's extremely happy since in
his mind, its "below market" based on what he heard from his friends.
Needless to say, Mike is happy too because he just doubled his
investment and effectively got one unit for free!
Joe paid the fair market price and Mike received the same. No buyer or
seller should expect more from a fair transaction. As a side note, the
above story is a true except that the names were changed to protect the
innocent. I will reveal, however, that the Mike character was me.
I've been to a lot of hamfests, auctions, and garage sales and there's
always a few hams who call me a "profiteer" with a look of disdain on
their faces. I've never been able to decode the logic of these folks
because it seems as if they're trying to tell me that I had some sort
of moral obligation arising from my Ham Brotherhood to sell the
speakerboxes for exactly what I'd paid for them, and not a penny more.
What's wrong with these people? Many of the same folks couldn't get
their wallets out fast enough if I had offered them up at $50
apiece. Of course, each and every one of them would try and
haggle me down on the price before they begrudgingly paid the 50
bucks and then walk away quickly with the box under their arm.
A lot of people in the hobby don't like to use the P-word. -PROFIT-
Okay, so I've said it. There's a large group of people who think that
our hobby is somehow sacrosanct and that profiteering is some sort of
slimy filth that must be avoided at all costs, lest it eat away at the
very fabric of our honorable and devoted hobby. And yes, to be sure,
our hobby does have it's share of the unwashed and non-devout who only
hang around for the money. They don't bother me.
Do profiteers help or hurt the hobby?
Arguments that I've heard (first hand, I might add), usually center
around their effect on raising prices and therefore raising the bar for
newcomers. In other words, this suggests that increased profiteering
will generally raise prices overall and in doing so will make it
difficult for people with little or no money get into the hobby. Call
me jaded if you like but offhand I can't think of any decent hobby
these days that doesn't cost lots of money.
Actually, profiteering is a sign of a healthy market. A healthy market
means that there will be increased competition which inevitably leads
to lower prices. Lower prices mean that there is more gear in the
market and it guarantees that lower priced gear will be available
to those who need it the most. Trust me, a TS-820S is a fine radio.
Even a $100 HW-101 will get you QSL cards from around the world.
I was once accused of being a P-man. This led to my being singled out
and denied a tailgate space at a small hamfest. Never mind that my
activities were non-commercial and that I was a licensed ham. For
some, being witness to my activities was just too much to bear. It was
said that I had often been seen buying and selling at the same
swapmeet. People had seen me arrive at daybreak and snap up all the
early-bird deals from other sellers. They also judged that it was
somehow apparent that I had no need for the gear I was buying.
Well then, what was I doing with all this stuff? Not that I'm
obligated to defend myself but, I was playing with it. This
was my favorite part of the hobby. Some like to chase DX, others do
moonbounce, and I liked to play with the equipment. I like to tinker
and I like to fix things. I'd buy one radio, fiddle around with it a
while, and then sell it. Then I'd buy another. Over and over. This
activity reached a pinnacle when I bought a used IC-765. I loved that
radio. I finally sold it when I realized that it was a shame to watch
it sitting on the other side of the room as I worked at the QRZ.COM
console. Today, I have a TS-440 that I inherited from my Dad. It
gathers dust too, but, it has sentimental value.
I've been out of the hamfest and junk trading cycle for a couple of
years now, and I do more QRZ administration than hamming. I really get
a kick out of Ebay. In a way, to me, Ebay is no different than a
hamfest except that it's perhaps a bit more diverse and has far better
attendance. Most of the same buying and selling rules apply, and most
of the same complainers and hagglers are there.
Just as in the non-virtual world, there are sellers who always seem to
think that their gear is unusually pristine and exceptionally well
cared for followed by the buyers who want to pay half the true market
value. There is nothing unusual about this, it's just human behavior.
The auction is a great way to bridge the expectation gap between buyers
and sellers. At the auction you can always rest assured that the true
fair market value is always lurking nearby.
Sure, there will always be folks who will bid too much, but, like
Darwin's theory of evolution, these people tend to weed themselves out
over time. If you're patient, you will eventually find and get what
you want at a price that you'd expect to pay. You'll also learn to
reset your expectations when the need arises.
Some of you might wonder why I would praise Ebay when doing so would
draw traffic away from QRZ's swapmeet. Why? It's a fair question and
one which I believe has multiple answers. For starters, Ebay only
deals with cash. On Ebay, you can't put something up "for sale or
trade" because all deals are for cash, and Ebay gets their percentage
of it. Ebay doesn't have "Wanted" listings either.
Adding to that, some people prefer to haggle directly with sellers in
the hopes of getting that coveted below-market deal. Some sellers
can't come to grips with how their once new equipment has now
depreciated and so they seek to hide it from the current prices. This
way they can at least hope to find an unsuspecting fish who will be
ignorant of the current market and help them out of their bind.
Still others just like the informality of a QRZ listing and enjoy
dealing with people one-on-one. Finally, QRZ always beats Ebay in
on respect: its FREE. It doesn't cost a penny to list your item on
QRZ whereas on Ebay, sellers must pay up front - whether the unit
sells or not. Isn't it funny how some folks will sit on an FT-1000MP
before they will pay $30 in commission fees to sell it?
Now that I've made this the longest QRZ article ever, I hope that
I've made myself clear. We're not going to change a thing on
the QRZ Online Swapmeet. Let the market decide.
73 and happy buying/selling,
-fred"
The Ebay Factor
Oh the things that find their way into the QRZ editor's mailbox. Some
of them might amaze you, some maybe not. Lately, there's been a few
complaints regarding policy on our very popular
Online Swapmeet (http://www.qrz.com/forum/) and ads
for Ebay auctions.
This article will address those complaints and shed some
light on my own buying and selling philosophy.
The basic question is this: Should sellers be allowed to post ads on
the QRZ.COM swapmeet that point the user to an active online auction
being held at the Ebay (http://www.ebay.com) website?
Some people really get peeved about these kinds of ads. They
see it as an advertisement for a sale taking place somewhere else.
I don't know why this bothers them because it doesn't bother me at all. Anyway,
one irate reader wrote in to tell us that "It's as if [the seller]
was saying Please be a sucker and come over to Ebay where you
can help run up the price... These types of sellers should be
banned...".
Suckers??? Now hold on a minute!
I've bought and sold a lot of stuff off of Ebay and I scarcely
consider myself a sucker. Let's examine this idea.
Suppose that a local ham, let's call him Joe, is looking for a
Collins 312-B4 to complete his S-Line station. After several weeks of
looking around and asking, he can't seem to find one. Then, as luck
would have it, one pops up on the QRZ Online Swapmeet. As Joe reads
the article he notices that the item is being offered at auction on
Ebay. So, I wonder: does this make Joe mad?[/b] I don't think
so. I'd have to bet that Joe was pleased to finally find what he
was looking for.
Next, Joe wonders, "How much should I bid for the unit?". After asking
some friends, he's heard that they usually sell for between $300 and
$400. The current bid is $225 and there's 6 hours left to go in the
auction.
Our complainant alleged that being on Ebay runs up prices. Do you
agree with him? Why? On any given day there is a market price for
anything. Whether you feel that the market price is high or low
depends on your individual perspective. Generally, if it's more
money than you have, then it's too high. Never mind that hundreds
of units are sold every day at the same high price to hams all
over the country.
Within the United States,
there are few regional or geographic differences anymore. In other
words, it's fair to say that an average TS-440 sells for about $400 on
the east coast, just as it does in Tennesses or on the west coast.
We're in pretty much of a homogeneous economy in this respect.
Back to the 312-B4. The Ebay seller, Mike, wants to off the the unit
because he's got two of them and doesn't need them both. Mike bought
them both at a government surplus auction for $125 apiece and suspects
that they are probably worth a little bit more than that but he's not
really sure. Not being an expert on Collins collecting, Mike really
doesn't have a clue as to what the units might be worth.
In order to maximize his opportunity (and profit), Mike has a couple of
choices. He can spend some time on an exhaustive research of the price
or, he can take it directly to the market where it will automatically
[i]float to the current market price. With any luck, Mike
believes he might make a small profit.
Choosing to go this route, Mike places the item up for auction on Ebay,
with an opening bid of $100. By the time Joe gets there, the bid is up
to $225 and Joe jumps on it with a $250 bid. Fortunately for Joe, he
wins the auction with that bid and now he's extremely happy since in
his mind, its "below market" based on what he heard from his friends.
Needless to say, Mike is happy too because he just doubled his
investment and effectively got one unit for free!
Joe paid the fair market price and Mike received the same. No buyer or
seller should expect more from a fair transaction. As a side note, the
above story is a true except that the names were changed to protect the
innocent. I will reveal, however, that the Mike character was me.
I've been to a lot of hamfests, auctions, and garage sales and there's
always a few hams who call me a "profiteer" with a look of disdain on
their faces. I've never been able to decode the logic of these folks
because it seems as if they're trying to tell me that I had some sort
of moral obligation arising from my Ham Brotherhood to sell the
speakerboxes for exactly what I'd paid for them, and not a penny more.
What's wrong with these people? Many of the same folks couldn't get
their wallets out fast enough if I had offered them up at $50
apiece. Of course, each and every one of them would try and
haggle me down on the price before they begrudgingly paid the 50
bucks and then walk away quickly with the box under their arm.
A lot of people in the hobby don't like to use the P-word. -PROFIT-
Okay, so I've said it. There's a large group of people who think that
our hobby is somehow sacrosanct and that profiteering is some sort of
slimy filth that must be avoided at all costs, lest it eat away at the
very fabric of our honorable and devoted hobby. And yes, to be sure,
our hobby does have it's share of the unwashed and non-devout who only
hang around for the money. They don't bother me.
Do profiteers help or hurt the hobby?
Arguments that I've heard (first hand, I might add), usually center
around their effect on raising prices and therefore raising the bar for
newcomers. In other words, this suggests that increased profiteering
will generally raise prices overall and in doing so will make it
difficult for people with little or no money get into the hobby. Call
me jaded if you like but offhand I can't think of any decent hobby
these days that doesn't cost lots of money.
Actually, profiteering is a sign of a healthy market. A healthy market
means that there will be increased competition which inevitably leads
to lower prices. Lower prices mean that there is more gear in the
market and it guarantees that lower priced gear will be available
to those who need it the most. Trust me, a TS-820S is a fine radio.
Even a $100 HW-101 will get you QSL cards from around the world.
I was once accused of being a P-man. This led to my being singled out
and denied a tailgate space at a small hamfest. Never mind that my
activities were non-commercial and that I was a licensed ham. For
some, being witness to my activities was just too much to bear. It was
said that I had often been seen buying and selling at the same
swapmeet. People had seen me arrive at daybreak and snap up all the
early-bird deals from other sellers. They also judged that it was
somehow apparent that I had no need for the gear I was buying.
Well then, what was I doing with all this stuff? Not that I'm
obligated to defend myself but, I was playing with it. This
was my favorite part of the hobby. Some like to chase DX, others do
moonbounce, and I liked to play with the equipment. I like to tinker
and I like to fix things. I'd buy one radio, fiddle around with it a
while, and then sell it. Then I'd buy another. Over and over. This
activity reached a pinnacle when I bought a used IC-765. I loved that
radio. I finally sold it when I realized that it was a shame to watch
it sitting on the other side of the room as I worked at the QRZ.COM
console. Today, I have a TS-440 that I inherited from my Dad. It
gathers dust too, but, it has sentimental value.
I've been out of the hamfest and junk trading cycle for a couple of
years now, and I do more QRZ administration than hamming. I really get
a kick out of Ebay. In a way, to me, Ebay is no different than a
hamfest except that it's perhaps a bit more diverse and has far better
attendance. Most of the same buying and selling rules apply, and most
of the same complainers and hagglers are there.
Just as in the non-virtual world, there are sellers who always seem to
think that their gear is unusually pristine and exceptionally well
cared for followed by the buyers who want to pay half the true market
value. There is nothing unusual about this, it's just human behavior.
The auction is a great way to bridge the expectation gap between buyers
and sellers. At the auction you can always rest assured that the true
fair market value is always lurking nearby.
Sure, there will always be folks who will bid too much, but, like
Darwin's theory of evolution, these people tend to weed themselves out
over time. If you're patient, you will eventually find and get what
you want at a price that you'd expect to pay. You'll also learn to
reset your expectations when the need arises.
Some of you might wonder why I would praise Ebay when doing so would
draw traffic away from QRZ's swapmeet. Why? It's a fair question and
one which I believe has multiple answers. For starters, Ebay only
deals with cash. On Ebay, you can't put something up "for sale or
trade" because all deals are for cash, and Ebay gets their percentage
of it. Ebay doesn't have "Wanted" listings either.
Adding to that, some people prefer to haggle directly with sellers in
the hopes of getting that coveted below-market deal. Some sellers
can't come to grips with how their once new equipment has now
depreciated and so they seek to hide it from the current prices. This
way they can at least hope to find an unsuspecting fish who will be
ignorant of the current market and help them out of their bind.
Still others just like the informality of a QRZ listing and enjoy
dealing with people one-on-one. Finally, QRZ always beats Ebay in
on respect: its FREE. It doesn't cost a penny to list your item on
QRZ whereas on Ebay, sellers must pay up front - whether the unit
sells or not. Isn't it funny how some folks will sit on an FT-1000MP
before they will pay $30 in commission fees to sell it?
Now that I've made this the longest QRZ article ever, I hope that
I've made myself clear. We're not going to change a thing on
the QRZ Online Swapmeet. Let the market decide.
73 and happy buying/selling,
-fred"